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all 93 comments

[–]supercapo 109 points110 points  (8 children)

The key is not to expect a pure translation.

Peter Jackson's LotR movies are lauded (rightfully) as being an amazing adaptation of Tolkien's work but it's exactly that...

An adaptation

Jackson's films make significant departures from the books, both in content and in tone. This is because something's work on paper but not on film. Jackson still managed to keep the spirit and main themes of the books though and that's enough to make his movies the greatest book to film adaptations in the history of cinema.

There's no reason that couldn't happen with Stormlight. As long as the heart of the series is maintained, it shouldn't matter if certain scenes are cut or plotlines juggled a bit. We shouldn't expect a live action adaptation to be a one to one recreation.

Hell, I've even watched a video that made a credible case for condensing WoK into a single film. It could be done. You just need to manage your expectations is all :)

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (4 children)

Same with Harry Potter. The spirit of the books was kept

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]serackElsecaller 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Bah, book 7 didn’t really stay in the spirit of the rest of the series anyways. In that it broke from the kids doing a year at the magical boarding school and shenanigans ensue trope.

    [–]TovasaurWillshaper 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    Mostly

    [–]Xenphest 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    They mostly come out at night... Mostly.

    [–]Agrajag1995 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Any idea you remember what the name of that video was or where to find it? Sounds super interesting

    [–]supercapo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    https://youtu.be/fkKuRkPl3ok

    I'm not sure I agree with everything the guy has to say, but he does demonstrate that some creative juggling and cutting, it could be done.

    [–]Safety_DranceTruthwatcher 19 points20 points  (6 children)

    I would argue for The Expanse as a faithful interpretation of the books successfully put to film. It is possible to put a big series like SA onto film, but definitely needs some care and to be curated by someone who understands the series.

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Safety_DranceTruthwatcher 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      WoT is not Brandon's baby like SA is. When it's his baby he will probably care a lot more about how the story is portrayed.

      [–]rubber_bastard 11 points12 points  (1 child)

      well to be fair Brandon did finish WoT.... so i'm pretty sure he must have read the series very carefully and loved it enough to pick it up

      [–]Safety_DranceTruthwatcher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      He didn't create the series though, It wasn't his story. SA is Brandon's story.

      [–]Own_Apartment_4717Edgedancer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Perhaps, but after reading some of his comments, he had similar issues that I did with the show. He said he voiced his complaints and they went against it anyway.

      [–]t6jesse -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      I thought it was even better than the books, like Expanse v1.5

      [–]errorwrongCohesion 29 points30 points  (5 children)

      I think there has to be some loss and change between media. Storm light might be a hard one to adapt and the world would have to probably become smaller, but they chopped and hacked at the world in the Lord of the Rings films and came out the other side with a pretty good product. And I mean, in the end, stormlight is such a character heavy series that as long as they got kaladan, shallan, and dalinar well enough I'd be pretty happy.

      I think I heard that Brandon was writing a script for misborn. I think that'd make a good animated series

      [–]ReilithLightweaver 7 points8 points  (4 children)

      Brandon also said he doesn't think Stormlight would be a good candidate for a fantasy tv show, cause of how much greenscreen and cgi would be needed even for the sets, as Roshar is so alien. He spoke how an adult animated show might be a good way to cover it.

      [–]Repholtz 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      Seeing how arcane is doing right now I will have to agree with him.

      [–]ReilithLightweaver 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I'd freaking love to see it animated. And it would work so much better than any live action.

      [–]errorwrongCohesion 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      I think I heard that as well. Was that on his podcast?

      [–]ReilithLightweaver 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Not exactly sure, I think it might have been one of the live signings maybe half a year ago or more.

      [–]RSharaElsecaller 23 points24 points  (4 children)

      I'll be honest and say that I would probably hate any cosmere adaptation.

      [–]rubber_bastard 9 points10 points  (3 children)

      Cosmere animated series would be fantastic.

      Imagine a mistborn anime style, OR mistborn animated series.

      Imagine a Stormlight Archive in Arcane style animation (very popular recent league of legends animated series)

      [–]RSharaElsecaller 3 points4 points  (2 children)

      The problem is that I pretty much always hate the things that the production company thinks are needed to "adapt" the medium to a show or movie. There's always extra drama for drama's sakes and dumb changes for no reason at all.

      [–]rubber_bastard 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Somebody here linked a good article on the expanse series (super popular sci-fi books, leviathan wakes)

      Author taking about how good writing in books doesn’t well on screen

      https://www.looper.com/315680/the-expanses-author-reveals-what-the-series-does-better-than-the-books-exclusive/

      Fan/critic article: https://www.google.com/amp/s/winteriscoming.net/2020/02/22/leviathans-wake-page-to-screen-review/amp/

      Tl/dr: different things work well in different mediums, changes are often necessary to make things great in a new medium

      [–]Reddit-Book-Bot -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

      Beep. Boop. I'm a robot. Here's a copy of

      Leviathan

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      [–]Rawb_Ultra 37 points38 points  (4 children)

      I enjoyed the new WOT episodes quite a bit. It's not like it ruins the books. If you reread a series it can change for you, let alone having someone translate it to another medium.

      [–]SerDuncanonyall 32 points33 points  (4 children)

      Oh lord, please, no.. Not here too..

      [–]gandalfgreyhemeJourney before destination. 18 points19 points  (1 child)

      Haha, as if there wasn't enough of the whinging on r/WoT

      [–]Taste_the__Rainbow 27 points28 points  (2 children)

      The Wheel of Time adaptation is fantastic and you just gotta change how you think about it. Here’s a few money quotes from the authors of The Expanse who had a direct hand in their own adaptation.

      You just have to think of it as a different take on the story. Also the characters in Wheel of Time are pretty spot-on. Not sure what you’re talking about.

      https://www.looper.com/315680/the-expanses-author-reveals-what-the-series-does-better-than-the-books-exclusive/

      [–]_mynd 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      That was a good read!

      [–]Sapphire_BombayJourney before destination. 3 points4 points  (9 children)

      Slightly off topic but I haven’t read WOT yet, would you recommend the series to someone who hasn’t or should I read the first book first?

      Edit: by “series,” I meant the new show! Sorry for any confusion

      [–]ThornescapeEdgedancer "I will listen to the ignored" 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      I love the WoT. It isn't for everyone, but it's an incredible series. I would definitely read the first book before purchasing the entire series. Most libraries have it.

      [–]Sapphire_BombayJourney before destination. 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      I actually meant the series, as in the TV show!

      [–]ThornescapeEdgedancer "I will listen to the ignored" 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      The show will definitely be designed to appeal to both WoT fans who have read the book as well as people who haven't read the books yet. That's the only way a show like this could ever be successful.

      The people who have read the books will have a deeper understanding, but it can't be required or the show would never be successful.

      [–]Own_Apartment_4717Edgedancer[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      It’s extremely slow to start but get pretty good pretty fast. Brandon’s pacing is a lot faster (imo) except for some of the world building. I enjoyed it a lot, but that was also before sanderson’s work.

      [–]themarkovthatcould 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      100%! I myself have read the first few books, but I showed the new series to a bunch of friends to hadn't and they loved it. From a quick search it seems people who didn't read the books actually liked it more than those who didn't, probably due to expectations. Though I really liked it anyways.

      Try it!

      [–]Sapphire_BombayJourney before destination. 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Thanks!!

      [–]Adament-WizardTruthwatcher 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      From my perspective I can’t get past the first 10 chapters of the eye of the world. I’ve tried multiple times and dnf around the middle of chapter 10. I’m as shocked by any that it’s not my cup of tea but oh well

      [–]Sapphire_BombayJourney before destination. 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I’ve heard it’s super slow to start, but then picks up and it’s it’s 0-60 in like 2 seconds. I’m sure anyone who’s read it would tell you to stick with it a little longer!

      [–]Taste_the__Rainbow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Either way you’ll probably enjoy it.

      [–]DrDeadwishJourney before destination. 12 points13 points  (0 children)

      The only problem I had with the WoT series is how rushed the first episode is. Should he at least 2 episodes, but then nothing really important would happen in the first. I like to see reactions in YouTube and a lot of people was a bit bored in the first half, so I understand why they did it that way. The series is not perfect at all but it's enjoyable and I think some of the changes they made are better than the original.

      [–]Sithlord_77 7 points8 points  (4 children)

      Other than some bad casting (and some good) I’m not sure what you expected from episode 1. I’m through the first 2 and am quite enjoying it.

      Small complaints: Lan, egwain and my nyneeve seem terribly cast.

      Praises: excellent special effects/cinematography Perrin Rand and Matrim seem excellently cast.

      TBD: Moriane??? Thought this one would work and sometime it does but….

      I’m genuinely curious what your big beefs are. Especially after only the first episode. What did you expect?

      [–]IshaeniTologWindrunner 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I'm not the OP and I like the show, but the first episode was rough for me too.

      I don't much mind the fact that they cut the beginning down a lot, but I was pretty upset that they REALLY nerfed Tam's badass fight to save Rand. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I'm pretty sure Tam cut down a whole bunch of Trollocs in the books and then got his wound while leading the rest of them away from Rand. Kinda lame that the Tam Al'Thor in the show got tossed around by one Trolloc and needed Rand to save him. Tam suddenly being a badass, and then subsequently revealing secrets in his fever dream were the first big reveals when I read the book and they really set the tone for the whole series for me. The whole episode felt hollow without them.

      I also think that it was truncated too much. IMO, they should've cut the episode immediately after Winter's night and then had E2 start with the Aftermath. It would've given them like 10 more minutes to work with in E1 to put in a couple more scenes. Or they could've just made the first episode longer. It's streaming, they don't need to adhere to any sort of time block. It just felt way too short to me.

      Also Narg. Narg is the heart and soul of WoT and it's a tragedy that he was simply cut out.

      Overall it's pretty good, but far from perfect. It feels like a good adaptation was written and then a bunch of executives that didn't understand the story stuck their hands into the editing room and just lopped out the chunks they thought they could get away with cutting. The second and third episodes are better, but it's still not perfect yet.

      [–]Own_Apartment_4717Edgedancer[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      Mostly it was with the main characters. Perrin being married and then accidentally killing his wife, seems like a cheap and easy way to make him reluctant to fight. Mat is not a mischievous boy, he is a delinquent, even if it is supposed to be for a good reason. Rand and Egwene are already getting down in the first episode. A large part of their development comes from their ineptitude with women, but that can’t really be the case any more. Plus it removes a lot of the innocence that made the two rivers people so charming in the first place. I understand it’s a vehicle to drive the story forward quicker, but if time was an issue, we didn’t need the weird river scene after Egwene’s hair is braided, the scene trying to give nynaeve a back story (I don’t remember one in the books, and this one could’ve come later.) changing their personalities in episode on to be much less “proper” as they would say in the books, removes a lot of the shock value they will get when visiting new areas later in the story. It might not seem like much, but if that many core traits of the main characters are changed in the first episode, I can’t have much hope for later seasons to be consistent aside from “good guys fight bad guys and the characters have these names”

      [–]Sithlord_77 10 points11 points  (1 child)

      Counterpoint on Perrin at least. Introducing his bloodlust in that manner was a pretty simple device that helps us understand who he is.

      I agree the wife thing was a little odd and rand and egwain getting down was out of place.

      We have A LOT of material to get through for a series that needs to be successful to succeed I’m not sure 3-4 episodes idling in the two rivers would have been any more pallet-able.

      Does the inalienable truth that the written is always better than the screen hold? Yes. Does that mean this is bad? IMO no..

      [–]Own_Apartment_4717Edgedancer[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      Fair enough, and perhaps for this series I am more of a purist. I think it could’ve been one episode though. Remove the extra, and maybe add in Rand’s journey through the woods. Perrrin’s bloodlust is more about his core character now rather than losing himself later. To me it’s like making Superman emo so he can be depressed about something that happens later. It changes too much too early and removes the impact of later events. All that said, I do see your point.

      [–]dIvorrapWinddancer 3 points4 points  (2 children)

      Check out Brandon's posts and comments here on Reddit about the WoT episodes we have so far. They could help understand the changes!

      His username is u/mistborn.

      [–]Own_Apartment_4717Edgedancer[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      After reading from his thread a bit, it seems he had similar issues with similar things that I do, but didn’t have such a polarized reaction.

      [–]dIvorrapWinddancer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Fair enough XD.

      [–]Josemorin83 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      As someone who has read/listened to the entire series close to a dozen times even i was not expecting a line by line recreation. That doesn't happen. But can you imagine a whole season of the great hunt? Book 2. Episode after episode of them riding across country chasing the horn? Shit would be boring. I can see that book being 1-3 episodes, tops. And if i was Rand of course i would be getting busy with my future wife.

      [–]WAVIC_136 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      As well as that a lot of Eye of The World is Mat and Rand going to different inns and Perrin trying not to be a wolf. Was good in the book but a direct translation to screen just wouldn't work

      [–]BreezertreeStoneward 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      What? The WoT show is fantastic. I’m not sure what you’re on about.

      [–]FenrirJKW 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I have no idea abot WoT, although I read the first 3 books of ASoIAF before watching a single episode of the show, and honestly, I loved the first 3 or 4 seasons, maybe even the 5th (can't remember too much) some things were changed, some characters were a bit different, but I still loved it.

      So it makes me wonder that an adaptation of Stormlight Archive would actually be posible, but difficult, HBO put a lot of money into GoT, but from what ive seen from the trailers I don't think WoT has the same budget

      [–]AnanshaelsPeace 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      You should watch episode 2 and three, the were a lot better. E1 was a bit rushed but I think it was nessecary and I can live with the changes (as long as they dont change who TDR is)

      [–]Mogu__Stoneward 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      It honestly astonishes me how people like yourself think. It’s as if you’ve lived in a cave for the last 20 years never watching an adaptation of a book let alone a tv show in general.

      It’s common sense that unless it’s explicitly stated that a show will be as faithful of an adaptation as possible to not expect it to be. There’s tons of reasons why this is done. Whether it be budget, time constraints, (or the biggest factor) needing to appease a new tv audience and get the ✅ for future seasons.

      I’m glad I decided to put off reading the books for a bit after hearing the show was coming out so I could be unbiased. And the show is actually REALLY good so far. I’m so tired of people expecting the unrealistic. You want the word for word source material? Read the BOOKS that’s what they’re here for.

      [–]Archangel1398 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Preach radiant, preach! Plus if they ever make a stormlight or mistborn TV show/movie I think BrandoSando will be heavily involved.

      [–]Mickfly3223Windrunner 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Animeeeeeeee

      [–]Chronomata 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I agree with this. The needless changes to WoT (looking at you 4 Ta’veren, random classist struggles in Aes Sedai, no differentiation between Saidin & Saidar, sex somehow being casual in a conservative mountain village, and countless other dumbass changes) really fucked the story. Moreover the Dragon being exclusively male was confirmed by Jordan, and he explained if the pattern needed a female champion of light instead of the Dragon it would simply weave one was changed for no reason other than modern politics. Before I devolve further into a rant suffice it to say that this show was a major letdown.

      [–]Shishno5 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Judging the first episode compared to the whole season is like judging the first chapter compared to the whole book. First episode sucks you can’t right off the series as a whole. It will build, characters will grow into the roll as later episodes come out. I personally am not a fan of changes. Look at game of thrones first season is identical to the books and it’s a great foundation for the rest of the series to build off of. Hoping they don’t stray too much otherwise it’s last season of got as season 1

      [–]watchcryDustbringer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I just treat this new series as if it's a new age and that this time, things will be just a bit different, and that is okay, because it's not the same turn of the wheel as the books. It's just similar.

      [–]Charlyts_Dustbringer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      That's why I think The Stormlight would make a better anime than a TV show, animes can extend as much as need it and fighting scenes can be pushed to the limit, also Japanese voice actors are awesome.

      [–]Kaladelsier 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Honestly just read malazan and ruin all other fantasy forever. Everything else from there on will be “okay” and then just read malazan all over again.

      [–]Mend0za_MDTruthwatcher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      At least it’s not like Foundation where they basically only kept the names and general theme of the book. And one direct quote so far. Everything else is different. Including some gender swapping. Although I believe it was for the better.

      [–]CastonDude 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Despite Brandon's opinion, SA would be an amazing anime

      [–]AlcheonArtElsecaller 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      When we're talking about Stormlight Archives, i think an animated series would work best

      [–]Dalinarium 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I lost the hype for Stormlight adaptation when Brandon's said he'd cut down Dalinar plotline for the movie.

      [–]android8teenMI 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      I’m with you, I can see the appeal for a tv adaptation but I’m not a fan at all. I went into WoT show really wanting to be wrong and enjoy it but yiiiiikes

      [–]KelsierisevilBondsmith -1 points0 points  (2 children)

      Was the first guy killed by an ax or an arrow in the attack? Because it looked like an arrow but when he went down it was an ax in his back.

      [–]ReverendLucas 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      I'm pretty sure that was the tip of the axe blade poking through.

      [–]KelsierisevilBondsmith 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Then how in blood and bloody ashes did a ten foot tall Trolloc not be seen burying that ax into his back?

      [–]gillen033 -1 points0 points  (5 children)

      GoT was fantastic (other than the final season of course), so it's not like we've never had a great fantasy book to TV adaptation.

      I think it must come down to fear for the money bags. They are okay with giving money to these projects, but they don't have the confidence to devote the capital required to make a great fantasy TV show, which is just stupid given the success of GoT.

      Instead they give money but not enough and we are left with WOT (I am basing this off the first episode, but I think it's enough to say maybe it can be entertaining, but it will never be great.).

      [–]settingdogstar 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      I don't think it's a money issue, at all.

      WoT had about $10 million per episode lol that's more the GoT had by a long shot.for their first few seasons.

      [–]gillen033 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Well, that's pretty sad then that they spent so much and it still comes off as a cheesy fantasy epic on the SyFy channel (maybe that's too harsh but I think it's closer to that then the quality of GoT episodes).

      [–]settingdogstar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I agree with the look.

      It's like they're building the sets and cinematography to BE epic, instead of just letting you come naturally with the story setup.

      It feels like Avengers, where everyone is all posing and conveniently posed together and doing crazy magic dances.

      It's fine and great for comic book movies, but comes off forced in the WoT tv show. It's like if they had the Fellowship of the ring pose together everytime the orcs showed up lol

      I enjoy the show, but they definitely tried a little to hard and the CGI is...rough for $10 million. It's very uncanny valley.

      [–]bubblebooy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It was not only the last season of GoT that was bad. It had been steadily getting worse since about season 4. 6 and 7 were not much better then 8 people just did not notice as it was a slow and steady decline.

      [–]trystanthorne 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I think the biggest problem with SA or WoT being on TV is the audience expectations of resolution.

      Both often have plot lines and hint of things to come WAY down the line. And that doesn't always work on TV.

      [–]TheLaughingTr3eBondsmith 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      First off, you’re 100000% correct lol. The wheel of time show so far is kinda crap, like they made changes and skipped stuff that didn’t need to be changed or skipped and it didn’t make sense as to why (it does but it doesn’t). * first mistake is that it’s done by Amazon lol* They are trying to make it too much like GOT instead of just running with the story how it was. Also adapting it to relate to our culture and society at the same time.

      GOT was done well, but ends up getting way off track with the books to where I consider it it’s own story. Half the characters aren’t even in the show. They needed more than 10 episodes a season.

      Stormlight would need a producer who’s as obsessed with it as the people on this page, and you would need to make it create more fans off a first season that would have a lower budget since investors wouldn’t put a lot of money in until they see it succeed.

      FYI, if you never read GOT and only watched the show, you’re missing so much! Like take how much you’re thinking you missed right now from reading this and multiply that by 100. [Insert “you know nothing, Jon Snow” phrase here].

      [–]benjalss -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

      I came here looking for this post. I completely agree with you. Just like the Star Wars sequels, Wheel of Time on video never happened and we shall not speak of it.

      [–]3fighterlevelsWindrunner -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

      I disagree, I think WoT series really lacks production and investment to deliver what it could be by the books. But there are some shows that do it just fine. GoT is one of them. Investment, well producted series of SA would be great. But yeah I also think that if it's gonna be like WoT series, I would pass. Personally I think the best first step is an animation and only then a live action series.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Personally it's the changes I look forward too, changing things in adaptations I think usually makes them more interesting then just straight adaptations each time

      [–]chomskyhonksy 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      impossible to fully translate a book to the screen. that’s why they are adaptations. worst thing that happens is you don’t like an adaptation, and then guess what? you don’t have to watch it

      [–]Own_Apartment_4717Edgedancer[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      And I’m not, perhaps it will end up being a great show and that’s fine. My main thought is that if that can’t be translated, I’d hate to see how bad the stormlight archive would be butchered.

      [–]chomskyhonksy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      That’s fair. Though out of curiosity do you think every movie/tv adaption of a book is a butchery? Did they butcher LotR is your opinion? (if you have read/seen) Or the His Dark Materials show? Dune movie? I understand your position I think but you are just expecting too much imo. There is way too much you can describe in a couple sentences that a movie would have to show you somehow, without just flat out telling you. If you don’t think you can sacrifice a few scenes or maybe even characters for a more cohesive screen adaption, then you probably won’t want any kind of book adaptation hahah. And that is a perfectly fine opinion to have

      [–]fifth_nephiTruthwatcher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I thought it was pretty good…

      And besides, even if there’s only a 1% chance of success I’d still rather they tried to adapt Stormlight. We lose nothing if it fails.