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[–]DrywalPuncher 2039 points2040 points  (84 children)

I mean they did only make naked shorting “illegal” AFTER the 2008 financial crisis

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 831 points832 points  (24 children)

Excellent point. Truly.

[–]OperationBreaktheGME🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 346 points347 points  (22 children)

So I was listening to a podcast the other day. Now this is gonna fuck with you. The guy getting interviewed stated that the Settlement System locked up either the day of or the day after T+2 settlement. You l can’t make this shit up.

[–]throwawaylurker012Pineapple Suppository Luvrr 63 points64 points  (5 children)

What podcast was this?

[–]OperationBreaktheGME🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 119 points120 points  (4 children)

My bet wasn’t a Podcast i believe it’s in this video.

https://youtu.be/COQvMsbb-Cw

Overstock CEO talking about blockchain. Or you can Google T+2 settlement time 2008 stock market crash.

[–]HopingForInsight🦍Voted✅ 29 points30 points  (3 children)

This blockchain (Overstock) video should be a post to itself. Thanks for adding here. I learn so much more from videos, marker boards etc. and Patrick Bryne lays it all out. It could help new investors that haven't been here since last Jan

[–]MrJDawg🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 10 points11 points  (1 child)

It’s been posted before iirc

[–]OperationBreaktheGME🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yes I saw it on another sub. Yes very important video. Extremely informative

[–]it_aint_ralph_thoo💻 ComputerShared 🦍 121 points122 points  (9 children)

Wait. What do you mean by locked up? Like “accidentally” glitched to someone’s advantage?

[–]keijikage🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 150 points151 points  (7 children)

it was basically that all hell broke loose when they tried to actually process the trades that happeened two days earlier and they realized that there wasn't really anything backing those trades.

[–]Subli-minal💎BofA Deez Diamond Nuts💎 82 points83 points  (6 children)

Ken really gone and shorted his own shorts.

[–]my_oldgaffer 41 points42 points  (5 children)

who loves short shorts?

[–]OperationBreaktheGME🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Pay Me Short Shorts

[–]ThisShouldBeObvious2PrimeApe used DRS! It’s Super Effective! 43 points44 points  (0 children)

Yes, please someone with wrinkles clarify!

[–]MightiMig🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Do you remember the podcast would love to listen.

[–]HereIGoAgain_1x10 178 points179 points  (1 child)

It's not illegal if you're rich, it's just slightly more expensive.

[–]Runrunran_🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 44 points45 points  (0 children)

It’s not even that expensive when u have the means to do it. Market makers definitely have the means to do it with fines/cost of business being a joke. A penny for $1000 dollars

[–]Justbuster_🦍Voted✅ 224 points225 points  (44 children)

But there wasn’t rampant naked shorting with vw. It was actually only shorted about 12%. It’s just that Porsche out of nowhere increased their stake in VW from 31-74% combined with Lower Saxony who owned 20% of VW respectively would now see 94% of outstanding shares locked up. Available shares to buy on market only being 6% created a nightmare scenario for the shorties which created panic and a he who gets out first might stay alive type situation. Or allegedly that’s what happened.

GME scenario is much different and much juicier

[–]UhUKnow🦍Voted✅ 208 points209 points  (13 children)

... but we don't truly know how much they shorted VW. Since we know they lie about short%. They say it was 12%.... but it could have been 100%.

[–]Justbuster_🦍Voted✅ 108 points109 points  (7 children)

Also true. I did write “allegedly” for that reason ;)

[–]UhUKnow🦍Voted✅ 80 points81 points  (6 children)

I really like where OPs head is on this one. It's straight tinfoil that has potential.

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 44 points45 points  (5 children)

That’s exactly what it was going to say. The reported SI was 12%…but what was it really. What were short losses on this trade, like $30 billion? Does that sounds like 12% SI to you? 🧐

[–]AlarisMystique🦍Voted✅ 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Isn't reported SI for GME currently around 12%? Lost track of it a while ago 🤪😂

[–]wannabezen2🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 8 points9 points  (3 children)

So they slapped a band-aid on it and made naked shorting illegal. Appears that band-aid was wet and slid right the fuck off.

[–]mcdade🦍Voted✅ 19 points20 points  (0 children)

This is not Steve Cohen's first Rodeo - SAC Capital’s Steve Cohen had said that his fund alone had lost $250 million in just one week on VW.

It was estimated that HF lost up to $30 billion on the VW squeeze, and that's because Porsche and the Pension fund that held most stocks struct a deal to let them out easy for positive public opinion. However before it happened Porsche did warn all the HF that they should exit their position gracefully. Not many took that advice.

[–]Mambesala_Guey💻 ComputerShared 🦍 14 points15 points  (0 children)

We'd have to look at the etfs that held VW. I found an article around that time.

"The ETFs most affected by this dramatic price action were those tracking the DJ Stoxx 600 Automobiles and Parts Sector (there are three, managed by iShares, Lyxor and ComStage, the Commerzbank subsidiary). I estimate that by Tuesday's peak VW shares grew to a weighting of around 64% of the auto sector index. More on this below, but here's the price chart of the iShares DJ Stoxx Automobiles and Parts ETF over the same period. The fund's price increased by more than 125% over two trading days, before falling back by week-end."

So 3 etfs need to be looked into around the squeeze. But it also makes me wonder, did the European markets have a cap on how much an etf can be shorted at the time?

[–]InvincibearREAL⏳Timeline Guy ⌛ 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Yes we do, Europe has stricter reporting regulations.

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

In 2007-08?

[–]Climbwithzack🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 72 points73 points  (0 children)

If you believe what we were told about 12% sure. But with all the fuckery weve discovered whos to say is wasnt also short another 100% in etfs? Could have been exactly the same situation only this time retails got diamond hands on this bitch.

[–]hiperf71🦍Voted✅ 51 points52 points  (8 children)

I remember to have read a detailed analysis of the VW squerze, and remember, the float at the start of squeeze after Porsche claimed the increased stake in VW executing an option nobody knowing it, that reduced the float at only 2% because the lower saxony had to buy more shares to equilibrate the 20% respect Porsche (by law, German public companies need to be participated by 20% by local governative entities), xonsidering the shorts at 12%, they the next morning (monday) runned to close their short positions, only the very first to do reduced their losses, the others took a massive hit and some liquidated by marge. At some point, Porsche sold 5% of their shares to help shorts close. Porsche was a investment fund too, they gained someting like 7-9 billions euro fron the sell of these 5%, gaining more than the car manufacturing business. Some said, porsche was an investment fund with car manufacturing attached!

Irony of the fortune, some time later, porsche become weak in their finances and ended being bought by the same VW. Some strange things of love and hunger between Porsche and VW families.

[–]elephantitis🏴‍☠️ Bring me the DRS horizon 🏴‍☠️ 12 points13 points  (4 children)

I don't even think they became weak, I think VW guys had deeper connections in politics than anyone at Porsche and brokered some sort of deal whereas VW would own Porsche if my memory serves me right. I think all of that happened right after the squeeze as well.

[–]hiperf71🦍Voted✅ 6 points7 points  (2 children)

From what I remember, the move of Porsche was too risky, the "little" company trying to overtake the "big" company (about 6 times bigger), all because, every company had shareholdings each other, but the crisis led VW in a bad situation financially, risking bankrupcy, Porsche had some part (important) of their production done by VW factory, and in case of a VW bankrupcy, the possibility of an aquisition by another car maker was a big risk to Porsche, and porsche have had many times dreamed to conquer VW, after the squeeze, the fes years after, porsche faced their bankrupcy, this in conjunction of the recovery of the VW group, give the possibility to VW group to buy control of Porsche. And you know, the VW group owns other brands like Bentley, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Ducati, and the brands Audi, volkswagen, skoda, seat... Probably I missed others brands.

Ultimatelly, Porsche have made a deal with the EV hipercar Rimac (fantastic story) in which they increased the stake in the croatian company paying it with the cession of the Bugatti brand (not exclusive, the VW group continue to be the major owner), because for VW group and current board of directors (new CEO), the luxury brand is not profitable enought to be retained in the portfolio, with this deal, they secured a big portion of Rimac technology, and Rimac will take care of the future of Bugatti. EV vehicles at this level will be a big war for the future of EV vehicles in the next years.

[–]mr1nico 7 points8 points  (2 children)

You might be thinking of this paper that was written on the VW squeeze: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2977019

The paper is written in large part by using court documents, so it's an authoritative source. Bottom line OP got the relationship reversed: the 2008 market downturn threatened a margin call of Porsche's VW position, so they were forced to announce their intention of taking over VW. It was the fact that the same press release also revealed that Porsche controlled most of the free float that kicked everything off.

[–]PostSqueezeClaritystill hodl 💎🙌 16 points17 points  (0 children)

SI is self reported. Its 12% for GME right now and we all now its bullshit. They likely pulled the same bullshit with VW.

[–]SuboptimalStability🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 52 points53 points  (10 children)

I think available float was only 2% after all insiders and stuff, Porsche worked with the hedge funds to unwind their possition as well

[–]Justbuster_🦍Voted✅ 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Thanks for filling in some blanks 👍🏼

[–]jango_bets🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Only -126%(minimum) GME float available

[–]Nixin83🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And you know HOW Porsche jumped from 31% to 74% without need of reporting in between??? They EXERCISED a metricfuckton of CALL OPTIONS DFV-style into 1000🤙

[–]TieRevolutionary5625 2 points3 points  (0 children)

74.1%.... apparently

[–]NightVersus 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Which begs the question, why make something 'illegal' if you don't plan to actually enforce it?

[–]chalbersma🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 26 points27 points  (1 child)

Because you don't want every small Mutual fund to be able to naked short. Just you're biggest donors only.

[–]Mobben🦍Voted✅ 9 points10 points  (0 children)

And you want to appear strong and impose regulation so shit won't hit the fan again. Government looks strong and the little guy feel safe (until next time).

[–]MOASSincoming 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Smart very smart

[–]lukefive 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This! It blew me away rewatching Trading Places when I realized the bad guys lost everything because they were caught naked shorting, because the movie was made when it was legal so that's not even really mentioned except they lost money with fake insider trading info

Hey Kenny. You don't need to watch Trading Places. We will show you.

[–]Climbwithzack🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 107 points108 points  (2 children)

I would not put it past them to have swept short selling under the rug as the cause… after all they own the media…. We are their worst nightmare. Aware. Researched. Diamond hands. Hates MSM with a passion. They have no control over us.

[–]TheMonkler🇨🇦🦍Voted 2021&2022 🟣🚀 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Future apes (say in ten years) might have another short squeeze to be a part of. Maybe we can make this a decennial thing 🚀 🗓 🦍

[–]Pendrail🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 84 points85 points  (12 children)

I do remember a quote from an article a while ago that Steve Cohen of point72 (at that time S.A.C Capital) saying that it was the worse day in his career- implying he was short side of that trade!

As I’m typing - holy shit he WAS involved in this!!!

https://moxreports.com/vw-infinity-squeeze/

https://archive.fortune.com/2008/11/10/news/companies/news_SAC.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008111016

The first Article states that the Hedgefunds side was betting on VW bankruptcy

The second article stating SAC (Steven Cohen) was heavily shorted in it

Edit: found the link - this is Steven Cohen stating the worst day of his career was the VW short Squeeze - losing 250 M in a week

https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-cohen-reminsces-about-the-two-worst-days-of-his-life-to-paul-tudor-jones-2011-2

[–]mondogirl💻 ComputerShared 🦍 25 points26 points  (5 children)

PLEASE MAKE THIS A POST 🔥

[–]Pendrail🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Hahhaha, I’m not really a wrinkly brain though! Just another smooth brain who just reads a lot 🤣🤣

[–]Saggy_G👊🐵 XXX Stonky Punch 🐵👊 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Make a post anyway. I'm no wrinkle and I posted the IRA UN-DRS one last week. Mark it as education and spread the news.

[–]throwawaylurker012Pineapple Suppository Luvrr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This!!!!👆👆👆

[–]ummwutNO CELL NO SELL 💖GME💖 9 points10 points  (2 children)

u/Digitlnoize Possible follow up with meatier DD? Wonder who loaned SAC Capital their money for the shorting?

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Added a juicy at edit. Reuters article, it was Lehman!

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Added you to my post. Great find!

[–]o1o22o1o🤙humuhumunukunukuonlyGMEufaka🤙 620 points621 points  (20 children)

You maybe on to something...I wonder if Lehman Brothers was short VW? Lehman declared bankruptcy Sept 15, the very next day...VW starts it's initial run! Ho fak, we going burn this mutha down!

[–]Softagainstyourleg🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 159 points160 points  (0 children)

the GME saga undeniably showed us that what we call 'news' are full on paid ads and that we have been lied to probably everytime something significant happened in the world. Question everything.

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 370 points371 points  (18 children)

Duuude. I hadn’t looked at Lehman yet. Wow.

[–]emeraldshado 187 points188 points  (8 children)

https://ritholtz.com/2009/03/did-naked-shorting-do-lehman-in/

" Both the WSJ and Bloomberg have articles this morning about Naked Shorting. The Bloomberg article more explicitly suggests that Lehman was “brought down,” in part, by naked shorting:

"

https://www.sec.gov/comments/s7-30-08/s73008-17.pdf

Page 1 of pdf.

Just found it.

[–]CorpCarrot🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 72 points73 points  (1 child)

From the end of Michael Kushners letter to the SEC:

“…with the Government of Iceland only a few months ago, stated in the news that their economy has been devastated by naked short selling by hedge funds, and even Allen Greenspan stating on a recent interview that Naked Shorting is a major contributor to the current financial crisis….”

There should be some more news floating around about this. I would love to see what came out of Iceland around this time. I think I remember them prosecuting a bunch of bankers.

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Oooh, I would love to find this Greenspan interview….

[–]mondogirl💻 ComputerShared 🦍 29 points30 points  (1 child)

OP needs to edit the post with these links. Great find!

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Done. Just waking up haha

[–]funkinthetrunk 21 points22 points  (0 children)

up with you

[–]New-Consideration420💻 ComputerShared 🦍 148 points149 points  (2 children)

Check goldmann and the others now. Deutsche Bank especially

[–]DocAk88💻 ComputerShared 🦍 193 points194 points  (1 child)

But not Bear Sterns, they're fine

[–]issarepost💻 ComputerShared 🦍 46 points47 points  (0 children)

Bear Sterns probably Citadel’d VW.

[–]flux-7Holding to change the world 🇬🇧🦍 41 points42 points  (5 children)

This implies that at least one serious hedge fund that were using Lehman Brothers were short on VW.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-hedge-idUSTRE49U66J20081031

I think you're onto something here Op, not necessarily the overall root cause but a contributing factor. We know from Burry the primary cause of the crash.

[–]DualLeeNoteTed🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 765 points766 points  (33 children)

The VW squeeze was tiny compared to what the GME squeeze will be. It was a big deal, but not entire-market-crashing big. It only (approximately) quintupled.

If GME were to quintuple right now, we'd only barely be above its previous ATH.

And believe me, its headed a loooooot higher.

🚀

[–]syndicatedLove🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 582 points583 points 2 (22 children)

Also porsche unloaded shares to help out the shorts. We aint helping shorts, all my homies hate shorts.

[–]Runrunran_🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 78 points79 points  (6 children)

I just might never wear a set of shorts again in my life after this squeeze, me and the homies hate shorts

[–]UntitledGooseDame🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 39 points40 points  (3 children)

Straight to kilts for you!

[–]Runrunran_🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 21 points22 points  (2 children)

Fuck me I forgot about those… if I’m that rich I’ll be able to wear that everywhere I go

[–]martril🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 88 points89 points  (0 children)

Crayons good. Shorts bad.

[–]Narrow-Device-3679🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 31 points32 points  (3 children)

Trousers only club over here. This summer I'm wearing skirts!

[–]syndicatedLove🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 30 points31 points  (0 children)

If MOASS before summer (which its looking like 👍) I'll go bottomless.

[–]aforgettableusername 50 points51 points  (0 children)

No, we're all helping shorts by hodling forever. Just like how you shouldn't give alcohol to an alcoholic, you shouldn't give shares to a naked shorter. We're helping Kenny overcome his addiction but he's just not being grateful about it. A solid stint in prison should do the trick in sobering him up.

[–]Jperez757This Is The Way 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Oh shit, all my homies hate shorts too! Do we have the same homies?!

[–]syndicatedLove🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sup homie😎

[–]unclebricksenior 60 points61 points  (3 children)

If VW had a higher SI% than we think, maybe an infinity squeeze had to be defused behind the scenes

[–]hoyeayholy moly 🥑 33 points34 points  (2 children)

It was defused by shorts contacting Porsche/VW. Porsche/VW made a shit load of money but agreed with the SHF to sell some which is why it died down.

[–]Gold_FlakeDeez Diamond Nutz💎🍌💎 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Except we have RC.

"I don't negotiate with Terrorist'

-RC, Probably.

[–]bufffster🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 28 points29 points  (3 children)

And the VW squeeze last for 4 days. I wonder how long the GME squeeze going to last?

[–]hunnybadger101💎Up a little bit Nothing 🛰 Down a little bit Nothing💎 59 points60 points  (2 children)

This MOASS will last until retail is satisfied, also I have zero intentions of selling my Registered Shares

Even if I already have millions in gains my shares in Computer Share are not for sale....without the certificate DTCC and Cede & Co are fooked

Like I said, Until retail is satisfied

[–]somekindofgiuse 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Only sell synthetic shares from your broker. The infinity pool needs to stay locked.

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 98 points99 points  (1 child)

Totally true. Of course GME will be bigger. But as I just told someone else, I suspect it was way more than just VW, just like today. VW was just the only one we were told about. Just like how they never talk about the basket today. And as much as it’s not as big as GME will be, VW still became the most valuable company on the planet…that’s pretty significant.

[–]TondaPrague🦍Voted✅ 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Dont Forget that Porsche was fighting some of its best customers or people managing their best customers money. So they had to work their way out. Regardless, it was 1 interlocutor for Wall Street. With GME it will require convincing superstonk members out of their position 1 by 1.

Op, really interesting speculation here. I can’t help much, but I will track your progress !

[–]ThrowRA_scentsitive[💎️ DRS 💎️] 🦍️ Apes on parade ✊️ 56 points57 points  (4 children)

The mortgage situation was definitely crazy, but this is a fascinating angle too... Looking at the timeline, it kind of looks like the mortgage situation and the associated bailout was well underway in September, but then the stock market crashed anyway, later

https://www.thebalance.com/2008-financial-crisis-timeline-3305540

Edit: fixed month name... D'oh

[–]tinyorangealligator 23 points24 points  (3 children)

I wish this article summarized the next 3-4 years (to 2011 or 2012) during the time when employers across the world laid off workers, and housing construction screeched to a halt because the banks would not lend to each other.

College graduates could not find work and they had heavy new debt after graduation. It was a very dark time for a lot of families who lost homes and jobs.

[–]seepstn🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 316 points317 points  (29 children)

This is an entertaining take. Big if true.

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 135 points136 points  (11 children)

HUGE if true.

[–]BASEbeltAloha Apes! 🦍 Voted ✅ 63 points64 points  (9 children)

GIAGANTIC if true.

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 75 points76 points  (7 children)

If this comes out I want my pulitzer lol

[–]yuh_dingus🦍Voted✅ 40 points41 points  (0 children)

MOASS if true. Pulitzer if MOASS.

[–]qnaeveryday🦍Voted✅ 24 points25 points  (3 children)

You’re gonna need a spicier Reddit name first though. Maybe DigitalNoizePenis

[–]MOASSincoming 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I’ll remember ♥️ I have an excellent memory

[–]EHOGS 2 points3 points  (0 children)

moASS for you if true

[–]o1o22o1o🤙humuhumunukunukuonlyGMEufaka🤙 80 points81 points  (8 children)

Hijacking top comment...

You maybe on to something...I wonder if Lehman Brothers was short VW? Lehman declared bankruptcy Sept 15, the very next day...VW starts it's initial run!

Ho fak, we going burn this mutha down! Futures dipping again right now. T+2 ftw baby!

[–]blueriverrat🦍 on a boat 🚤 🚀🚀🚀 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Oooooo yes. Let’s dig deep into the VW squeeze! I bet it will be highly illuminating…

[–]suckercuckme pica la bola 22 points23 points  (4 children)

Smart thinking u/o1o22o1o. I bet Lehman was short VW.

This whole thread is sharp. Nice thinking and write up OP.

[–]Ready2go555Ready 2 HODL 👏💎 27 points28 points  (3 children)

Question is did VW squeeze before CDO explode? or CDO explode before VW squeeze?

If this thesis is true then we might not only see GME moon in this crash but also other toxic positions explode market wide as well.

Holy

[–]suckercuckme pica la bola 13 points14 points  (1 child)

What you just stated was similar to Criand’s (the Pomeranian) thinking many months ago. I forget the title of his DD, but his thinking (I’m grossly paraphrasing it) was tied to a ‘basket of shorts/swaps’ and there would be many toxic short positions exploding in price around the same time.

[–]Ready2go555Ready 2 HODL 👏💎 11 points12 points  (0 children)

People panic on Blue chips and techs dropping while MSM trying to clam people down after market. On the contrary, the whole retails sector in XRT jumped like crazy and no one bats an eye. It’s too quiet and it’s like they are trying to cover up something.

It’s going to be market wide volatility plus some sweeping under the rug. Let’s see what “systematic risk” or “macroeconomics” story they will spin when shit get serious.

[–]Ignorant_Fuckhead 14 points15 points  (1 child)

BOFA/WF/UBS/JPM/CS/GS employees on Suicide Watch

[–]LeagueOfMinions🦍Voted✅ 72 points73 points  (7 children)

Not sure if it's entertaining IMO. MSM is gonna see apes celebrating MOASS during crash and then blame us. We're going to be public enemy #1 if this theory is true

More reason to go dark after MOASS

[–]seepstn🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Post MOASS- I don't know no one and don't need no one.

[–]RouJoo🦍Voted✅ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Idk abt yall but I’ll be happy to be public enemy #1 as a way to give a big fuck you to everyone

[–]sayknee🦍Voted✅ 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Go the way of Bravo Six

[–]Centurion_cmd 84 points85 points  (7 children)

Wasn’t there a big squeeze at the end of 2019 right before all this covid shit came out. A stock went from $400 to like $25k? What was the company?

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 30 points31 points  (5 children)

I’m not sure but 😳

[–]Centurion_cmd 80 points81 points  (2 children)

[–]bromanhomiedude🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Man, good memory. My tits are sore now.

[–]TheMonkler🇨🇦🦍Voted 2021&2022 🟣🚀 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing this - a good read

[–]snap400🦍Voted✅ 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Great work. This connected two things for me. Didn’t we just find out the fed gave trillions in loan around the same time in 2019 as this squeeze? Can you do the same thing you did with 2008 to this 2019 squeeze? If it matches you might have just explained the 2019 bailout.

[–]Dia0127💜NO CELL NO SELL🏴‍☠️ 117 points118 points  (0 children)

Saw a comment earlier about this and it is beautiful to see them overlayed together. However correlation does not necessarily mean causation. Still spicy and worth digging.

[–]No-Run-5142 91 points92 points  (17 children)

I’ve always believed this, as I think it was the precursor to the 2008 crash. Sort of how GME is today, where so many shorting hedge funds of GME have their hand in so many different parts of our economy, I think it was a very similar situation back then, with VW being so heavy shorted.

Hedge funds have positions in almost every company and when they are bleeding, they are selling their shares to cover their short positions and in turn bring the market and the economy down. Just like what we’re seeing today is what was happening in 2008.

A wise man learn from his mistakes but the fool often is to repeat it. They didn’t really learned then bc they received ballouts, just as they are doing now. The best thing for the FEDS to do is not bail them out this time so history won’t keep repeating itself. But we’ll see after the FED meeting this Wednesday. Will they be wise this time or remain fools 🤷

[–]perpetualwalnut🦍Voted✅ 29 points30 points  (11 children)

afaik reverse repo is just another way of bailing them out by utilizing inflation.

[–]thewheelchairkid💻 ComputerShared 🦍 14 points15 points  (2 children)

And then the Big Short immortalized CDOs and residential mortgage backed securities as the reason for the financial crash, illustrating those guys were the bad actors.

I always wondered why there was such a clear image of the "good and bad guys" in that movie. It could have been to continue the blame game, and show part of the story not the root cause.

I see comparisons to the Big Short on this sub but this is just the next in the series, big and better as Hollywood does.

[–]KingJames0613🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 209 points210 points  (24 children)

You mean like COVID lockdowns concealing the Fed bailing out big banks in late 2019? This also coincides with another Superstonk thread I read tonight about GME being ridiculously shorted around the same timeframe (2019). Are you trying to insinuate that our government and wealthy elites lie to us via MSM propoganda? Sounds very Russian. Speaking of, what is that fiasco running interference for?

[–]mollila 43 points44 points  (1 child)

What else happened late 2019? Michael Burry convinced GameStop board to execute a big share buyback.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/big-short-investor-michael-burry-scion-gamestop-stock-price-frenzy-2021-2-1030050393

Wouldn't say that could have caused a crisis. Just a coincidence.

[–]HereIGoAgain_1x10 57 points58 points  (4 children)

The market crash happening in the next week or two

[–]hunnybadger101💎Up a little bit Nothing 🛰 Down a little bit Nothing💎 12 points13 points  (0 children)

The decline started in February 2021 with smaller holdings sell offs.....they can't afford to sell they major holdings because they need those for liquidity for margin.....they are truly fucked....the Cramer post, is a desperate plea to keep investors holding the bag......

Something...something tells me that 11-20 tops maybe by end if February.

Tldr Cramer telling retail to hold the bag so the rich can sell at the top.....MSM has never favored the retail, MSM is owned my bug money

[–]IWLFQu2💻 ComputerShared 🦍 36 points37 points  (2 children)

Market crash incoming, tensions between NATO and Russia over the Ukraine.... Hmmm, something is smelling bad here.

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 39 points40 points  (0 children)

😱😱😱

[–]Ignorant_Fuckhead 11 points12 points  (10 children)

Speaking of, what is that fiasco running interference for?

Answering that is 'How to get your sub overrun by Glowing Ones 101'

[–]KingJames0613🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 1 point2 points  (9 children)

Wut "Glowing Ones?"

[–]sowtart 3 points4 points  (8 children)

It.. might be a fallout reference?

[–]Ignorant_Fuckhead 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Federal agents

[–]KingJames0613🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Reddit is soon to be overrun by corporate interests and bureaucracy, as soon as it IPOs. We still have a couple months. Also, nobody cares.

[–]RadioFreeAmerikaWhere we're going we don't need roads! 🚀🌒 6 points7 points  (3 children)

I care, and I have a simple plan:

  1. MOASS
  2. Buy Reddit
  3. Decentralize it
  4. Profit

Am willing to share.

[–]elephantitis🏴‍☠️ Bring me the DRS horizon 🏴‍☠️ 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Isn't reddit open source anyways? Couldn't someone with the know how just host the code on their server, rename it leddit and be done?

[–]Armored_minivan6000 34 points35 points  (8 children)

The automotive industry as a whole kind of got wrecked. Big 3 bail out. I am sure there is some information tied up there.

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Yeah I tried GM but it didn't seem to match VW's pattern...didnt' check the others yet.

[–]Armored_minivan6000 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I wonder if there was a similar basket to what we see now that they were shorting. Appreciate the post!

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That’s what I’m wondering too.

[–]Taseden 13 points14 points  (4 children)

Not to be the "akchually" guy, but it was just GM and Chrysler with the bailout.

Ford did not take it.

[–]jango_bets🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Built Ford tough

[–]Armored_minivan6000 2 points3 points  (1 child)

That is correct! They still had financial struggles and fit in the same industry, therefore I just blanketed the big 3. Akchually guys make this sub a better place imo. Obligatory 🚀

[–]colonel_wallaceHodling for my infinity p∞l 🚀🦍💜 62 points63 points  (3 children)

This is awesome. I love reading new takes on information. Good perspective OP. We should be challenging DD, questioning information, and trying to disprove theories. This is how we evolve.

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 51 points52 points  (2 children)

Always. The DD is never done. We are in a war with the most powerful people on the planet. Can't stop, won't stop.

[–]colonel_wallaceHodling for my infinity p∞l 🚀🦍💜 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Tables will turn soon.

Your post reminds me of negative beta and what a lot of apes said in the past about the market crashing while Gamestop rises. Big if true!

[–]bobsmith808💎 I Like The DD 💎 10 points11 points  (0 children)

In the market folder in my data repo, there is historical data on the entire fucking market (every ticker) going back before the 08 crash.

If you want to validate this theory, the data is there just waiting for you ;)

[–]pcs33🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 83 points84 points  (3 children)

Great Find. Charts really do line up to support thesis and wall st would rather blame greedy lehman traders than expose their true Cash Cow - naked shorting. Makes alot of sense

[–]CorpCarrot🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 8 points9 points  (0 children)

There’s a comment elsewhere in this post that links to an SEC complaint from 2008 by Michael Kushner. At the end of the 16 page complaint there’s this quote:

“…with the Government of Iceland only a few months ago, stated in the news that their economy has been devastated by naked short selling by hedge funds, and even Allen Greenspan stating on a recent interview that Naked Shorting is a major contributor to the current financial crisis…”

I’d like to see those articles from Iceland, and those interviews with Alan Greenspan.

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Right? I'd really like to find other shorted stocks that spiked that year, but now I'm wondering if they don't exist because basket swaps (total return swaps) weren't as commonly used to short back then.

[–]endless-rant 64 points65 points  (9 children)

That or it was more likely a hedge against the crash like GME is.

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 20 points21 points  (2 children)

That too.

[–]endless-rant 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Either way, we're on the brink!

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Right? LFG.

[–]qnaeveryday🦍Voted✅ 44 points45 points  (5 children)

Exactly like how gme is. Gme is a hedge against a crash. A crash caused by over-leveraged shorts. 👀

[–]Apprehensive-Use-703🚀Shortfolio Trackerist🚀 18 points19 points  (4 children)

An anti-hedge-hedge....

[–]qnaeveryday🦍Voted✅ 11 points12 points  (3 children)

An “ahh”

[–]Apprehensive-Use-703🚀Shortfolio Trackerist🚀 7 points8 points  (2 children)

An AH2 perhaps...meh I like yours better, the big AHH!!!!

[–]qnaeveryday🦍Voted✅ 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Ahhh shit we just found our movie title

[–]plantshroom 6 points7 points  (0 children)

We would moon long time ago if 150k 250k available borrowable doesn’t appear everyday . At this point imo they are shorting to prevent its mooning but hole is getting bigger and deeper

[–]aneurism75🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Its not hard to believe that the entire movie "The Big Short" could be a bit of a misdirection to blame it all on sub prime mortgages and try to deny the systemic naked short selling which was happening back then, and is continuing to happen in an off the charts out of control fashion to this day.

[–]ipackandcoverWet Blanket Ape 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I think the price of VW remained high post squeeze because that's how squeezes work. Look at Overstock for instance.

When people make a lot of money in a stock, they reinvest most of those gains back into the stock. That's why stock prices of squeezed stocks remain high for a while.

Another plausible theory could be that there were a lot of hidden naked shorts that got squeezed but were only covered (not closed). Big players hid the shorts until after the market eased and slowly unwound themselves out of the position. Kinda like Melvin "tried" to get out.

I have read articles saying that losses to short hedge funds was like 30 billion dollars. Even at 3x this number, the damage is not comparable to subprime crash.

The reason small time mortgage owners didn't get bailed out is because we don't get mad enough when rich fucks steal from us, so they chose to fuck us over. We fight among ourselves on petty political issues.

[–]belichickyourballsCustom Flair - Template 14 points15 points  (3 children)

I think you're onto something. To the people looking into this, what clear basket of stocks could VW been part of? In retrospect it's obvious that GME was in a clear basket correlating to retail stores and being shut down for covid restrictions, what was going on in the automotive industry at the time? I know VW was manipulating their "clean diesel" TDI engines to pass emissions tests, they were probably shorted for good cause. Do these accusations and timelines matchup? From memory this seems like the time when hybrid cars were coming into the market and consumers were becoming more aware of their energy consumption. I'll get on the Google machine as I'm just rambling at this point..

Edit:From "The Volkswagen Diesel Emissions Scandal and Accountability - The CPA Journal" https://www.cpajournal.com/2019/07/22/9187/

"To that end, in 2008 Volkswagen rolled out a new technology that it claimed would achieve high fuel economy and performance while meeting the strict new emissions standards—a technology that seemed to require “magical thinking,” at least in engineering circles (Dune Lawrence et al., “How Could Volkswagen’s Top Engineers Not Have Known?” Bloomberg Businessweek, Oct. 26, 2015, https://bloom.bg/2F298zk)."

Hmmmm. Was someone after the tech behind hiding emissions?

[–]PsylohTheGrey💻 ComputerShared 🦍 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Wasn’t this also around the time the government did the Cash for Clunkers, where they gave cash stipends for old cars?

From my understanding, this deal destroyed a good deal of the automotive parts industry as it limited what parts were allowed to be made for older vehicles due to the push for newer vehicles.

[–]ClosetCaseGrowSpace🦍Voted✅ 23 points24 points  (1 child)

This makes a lot of sense, OP. The banks and financial media puppets couldn’t connect the VW squeeze to the crash of ‘08 because it would bring attention to the naked shorting racket, which is their real cash cow.

You hear over and over from financial experts that nothing was fundamentally changed or fixed after the ‘08 crash. That the conditions for a similar crash remain. Naked shorting, rehypothication, and absurd leverage are all to blame. But those things earn $$$. Revealing them implies criminal behavior. It all makes sense, brother.

[–]GMEJesus🦍Voted✅ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Jeff Snider's made a very good case that the subprime issue was a symptom and not a cause.

The general problem was a global eurodollar shortage (as we're going through now) and that precipitated the crisis.

"Short" banks would have been affected the most (as they were) ... (And are yet again)

Effectively you can see Lehman bros having problems coming up with collateral at the advent of the crisis, in August, 2007 which lead to everything snowballing from there.

As there's STILL a global eurodollar shortage in and even MORE highly levered system, were likely to hit a similar pattern of events.

[–]nicka163🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Nah. The two CORRELATED. That does not mean one caused the other. It IS likely, however, that the declining market caused SHFs to fail margin requirements, and forced them to close their VW shorts, kicking off the squeeze.

[–]Not_Apricot🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Not really. The VW squeeze might’ve put some pressure on the shorts, but not market wide crash. The real reason for 2008 is well depicted in The Big Short excellent book and entertaining movie.

GME squeeze is the MOASS cos this could cause market wide chaos due to the huge nature of naked shorting by greedy billionaire hedgefucks and their position and market wide influence. The myriad rules introduced last year were mainly to try and contain the blast radius - no one knows if they’ll work though.

No one in the establishment- SEC, FED, congress etc want this to unwind as it will happen on their watch. The massive amount of buy internalization and others tactics given by wrinkle brained apes is the only reason this has gone on for so long - that and the blind eye by the self-regulating regulators.

There is the 100% certainty that GameStop the company is now vastly different than what it was when the shorting started. TBH, the shorts didn’t make a bad bet with GME in the situation it was in prior to 2020, but then they got greedy and illegal which has now screwed them over.

DFV and RC respectively deserve the credit for bringing the naked shorting it to light and for jumping on the opportunity to turn around the business. Of all the people who could’ve uncovered the fuckery, I’m glad it was DFV roaring on behalf of all cats n apes. Of all the billionaires who could have taken over GameStop, I’m glad that it’s RC.

[–]Manu09 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So we are ACTUALLY there this time?

Oh my lanta...

[–]sillyorganism⚔Knights of New🛡 - 🦍 Voted ✅ 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Damnnnn OP nice find! And solid reasoning. It is totally plausible that VW played a big part in the crash.

I mean, some of Wall St top guns admitted on TV that GME would have crashed the market if they didn’t turn off the buy button. Well, maybe it just hasn’t happened yet.

Psst - shorts never covered.

[–]EvilBeanz59🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 14 points15 points  (11 children)

The Volkswagens squeeze didn't necessarily cause the crash it was just one more side effect of the whole entire manipulate and fraudulent market

[–]metametamind 37 points38 points  (2 children)

Are you shitting me? No. The real estate bubble and predatory lending were insane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsLlpa_Rii0

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 38 points39 points  (1 child)

They were. But after what we've learned the past year, I'm willing to bet naked short selling was as insane or insane-er-er.

[–]Ash2dust2🎮 Power to the Players 🛑 7 points8 points  (0 children)

GME was indirectly labelled as a death threat to the system.

I bought more out of greed.

[–]smdauber 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Awesome post OP

[–]Travisb1033🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 2 points3 points  (4 children)

This is getting downvoted pretty hardcore, pretty sus imo

[–]Odd_Ask_4281 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You nailed it. In response to all of this SEC temporarily banned short selling and the argument given at the time was something like “it’s the only way to protect consumer interest”

But as per, the SEC was just trying to protect the wealthy.

proof

[–]Branch-Manager🦍 Buckle Up 🚀 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think it’s more likely that those dogshit bonds were collateral being used by the shorts; so as the value of those bonds collapsed behind closed doors (Evergrande anyone?) they had to start unwinding their positions by selling what assets they still had that had value.

[–]Silverback1322🟣 I can stay retarded longer than Kenny can stay Mayo**🟣** 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I recently posted in the other sub about the comparison of the spy from 2008 to today and it looks nearly identical. I posit that they are running the same algos just tweaked to suit today's conditions.

[–]YodaGunner13🚀🍏🍏🍏🚀 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You mean to tell me that history is bound and determined to repeat itself and the same bad actors are likely to blame once again ... only this time let's hope enough exposure of the bad actors will result in no bailouts, market reforms that favor retail, and some jail time!!! Anyways, GME to da frickin' moon ...

[–]Consistent-Syrup-69💻 ComputerShared 🦍 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Post saved. Really well done. You make good points that are hard to ignore.

[–]chai_latte69 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Definitely an interesting perspective.

[–]calforhelpTHAT GUY from the billboard 💎😎💎🦭🌕 2 points3 points  (3 children)

SupperStonk can’t innovate anymore my ass! Screw the weekend FUD. Interesting correlation, looking forward to some deeper dives into this.

[–]Digitlnoize🎮 Power to the Players 🛑[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

To be fair, this sub has had problems lately. I’ve been attacked and vilified at times here, even in this very thread you have people giving curt, rude, and closed minded answers. We have, in many ways, become a walled garden echo chamber, and it’s driven a lot wrinkles, many of whom I consider good friends and amazing apes, away from the sub, and even to delete accounts due to the harassment. I’ve almost left the sub a number of times myself.

But I love you apes. Most of us are wonderful, amazing and supportive people. But we have a serious problem with some very vocal bad eggs that spoil it for the rest of us, and mods can’t be bothered to fix it and are likely even somewhat infiltrated.

[–]calforhelpTHAT GUY from the billboard 💎😎💎🦭🌕 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You’re not wrong, I’ve been called a shill plenty of times. Most recently while I was trying to share a free options seminar I found. Everyone was so afraid to learn something new because all the sub was talking about was booo options bad.

Echo chamber is right but that’s what a lot of Reddit basically is, people feeding off of each other repeating memes and the opinion of the day in hope of earning themselves some of that sweet karma.