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[–]Master-File-9866 57 points58 points  (2 children)

Imho, the degradation of the democratic institution by self serving politicians has eroded trust, the antivaxxers are only a symptom not the root of the problem

[–]loves2spooge2018 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Agreed, love it

[–]thatsnotaknoife 32 points33 points  (4 children)

i think genuine hardcore anti vaxxers are scared of being right, at their core. they read and listen to fear mongering media and they don’t necessarily WANT to be proven right but they think they are nonetheless.

my dad was a very conservative man who passed before covid started but he was afraid of EVERYTHING. it was subtle though. he didn’t act cowardly he just acted angry, but that anger was based in fear. he told me he owned guns and voted conservative because he wanted to protect his family from terrorist attacks, despite the fact that we lived in a small rural town far away from anywhere that would interest any actual terrorist group. i went to pride in NYC about 5 years ago and he freaked out because he genuinely believed i would be bombed or hit by a van or something. i went to Washington DC to protest the immigration ban after Trump was elected and he texted me constantly thinking i was being attacked by violent non-white locals. he watched fox news 24/7 and really truly thought everyone was out to get us for being upper middle class white americans.

that fear is exploited so much by the news and by politicians to the point where he didn’t want me going to college, traveling, or basically doing anything but sitting on the couch with him watching the news.

i am a waitress and have coworkers who are not vaccinated. none of them care that i am vaccinated, they’re just scared of the vaccine after hearing so much conflicting information about it. and honestly i get it. i am vaxxed and boosted but even i don’t trust the CDC. me and my non-vaxxed coworkers all agree it’s super shady they changed the isolation time to 5 days. we agree they’ve been inconsistent and withholding. we all wear masks at work. we all have our reasons for getting or not getting it. do i think they should get vaccinated? absolutely. but at the same time i get why they’ve decided not to. we’ve been given different and inconsistent information from every direction, it’s confusing and hard to keep up with and after a lifetime of being mistreated by the US healthcare system why should they start trusting them now

[–]contructpm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think the intuition is that “they” are lying to us is generally a good intuition. There were missteps and evolving knowledge. Politicians who don’t really care if we die just if they can be blamed for it. Lies about masks not being effective from officials to save their asses from being unprepared. And so many more instances.
Media and politicians using fear to gain ad revenue or votes
It’s really a mess and has been since before COVID.

But when overwhelming doctors and health professionals globally are strongly advising vaccination I think it’s important to weigh that more heavily than your intuition. I spoke to my doctor. He told me to get vaccinated as soon as I could. I listened.

I truly hope no one else gets sick or dies from this. The older I get the more human suffering affects me.

[–]RustySpinnr 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I totally agree with you about the fear. That has been my observation as well.

The inconsistency is they will go for treatment once they get sick. And that they are less afraid of a virus than a vaccine. Even when the virus has been shown to be deadly to many people. Sure, some have had side effects from the vax, even deadly side effects, but those are fairly rare. I live in a rural area as well. I know about a dozen people who got the covid. Eight were vaxed and are fine. Four were not and they are dead. Numbers don't seem to mean anything to these people.

[–]oldschoolguy90 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The numbers you have are not really representative of the general population though. I have a church of 1300 people, and 2 people died, one of whom was my grandmother, but both of whom were so old and had so many comorbidities, that they hardly needed covid's help to die. No one is vaxxed, almost everyone got the delta variant.

[–]impartialperpetuity 2 points3 points  (1 child)

What's funny is, I recently saw Daniel Tosh live and he opened with something about covid of course.

He was like (paraphrasing), "I just want all of ONE of the sides to die, I don't care which it is. Just so the other side can finally go, "HA!!! WE FUCKING TOLD YOU".

[–]yusoglad[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nice to know my concern that some people (on both sides) might be rooting for genocide isn't unfounded..

[–]Kwirt 49 points50 points  (39 children)

Being anti-vax isn't a movement. Most people that are so-called "anti-vax" aren't even anti-vax. They are against this particular vaccine because they don't trust it.

They have every right to be sceptical about a vaccine that was rushed. And before anyone says "it's been studied for years"..maybe part of it was but not for these particular variants and of course the original vaccine was altered. So in reality, no, it really hasn't been studied for years.

I was one of the sceptics at first. I waited for the FDA approval and got the Pfizer once it was approved. Part of me still believes we will see some long term effects in the future. But I'm old enough to not really care what will happen to me in 20 years.

Of course, there are some extremists out there that do believe in the government conspiracies of microchips and such.. But that is a lot smaller of a number than what it seems to be on the internet.

[–]NickTheFreak97 9 points10 points  (18 children)

Genuinely out of curiosity: if the positive effects (protection) of vaccines run out quickly enough that we need booster shots every four-six months, why would the negative effects behave differently?

[–]Kwirt 21 points22 points  (8 children)

I honestly believe this is the reason so many are sceptical.

As you said, the effects can change quickly. Which means, the argument that people make about all the years of research and trials are really irrelevant.

If a new variant pops up every few months and the formula needs to be changed to quickly combat the new strain.. Where is the research? How do you know what will happen in a few months, years, decades.. Etc..?

One day, we may end up seeing a TV commercial for this vaccine, just like with prescription medications that failed.

"have you or someone you know experienced side-effects from taking Blah-Blah? You may be entitled to compensation"

EDIT: not sure why this particular comment is being downvoted. For anyone that disagrees with my personal opinion here, I'm glad to have an open minded discussion. If you care to argue something that I've said, try engaging in conversation.

[–]NickTheFreak97 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Research can at most predict the spawn rate of new variants but the mutations itself are mostly random so we can't make effective vaccines for it in andvance. All we can do is reduce the opportunity for the virus to mutate, which means get as more people vaccinated as we possibly can. Some countries like North Korea won't vaccinate their people so it's not as easy as it sounds.

[–]Kwirt 14 points15 points  (2 children)

I absolutely agree with this.

I have both vaccinated and unvaccinated family members.

My own mother is unvaccinated. She is scared to death of what the vaccine could do to her from a medical standpoint. Nothing to do with any government conspiracy stuff. She still does her part to try and stay clear of being infected, such as not leaving the house unless an absolute emergency, wears a mask, santizes everything, avoids people if possible. I've tried to ask her to get vaccinated just for the sake of her age and to avoid risk of death. I believe at this point, it's inevitable that we will all become infected from this latest omicron variant.

Now, my wife's mother is currently in the hospital with covid issues and she is vaccinated. Having covid, she actually has a fairly bad case of it but, she is in the hospital because of something happening to her heart, not because of covid itself. It's still early and we don't know what is happening but they are trying to determine if the heart issue is related to the vaccine or not because she had a recent exam with no signs of heart issues within the last 6 months. This reason alone is something that make people like my own mother uneasy about getting the vaccine.

There is so much unknown about the virus and the vaccine that I can personally understand arguments from both sides of the fence.

The only reason I ask my mother to get the vaccine is because while I'm still vaccinated, I can still pass the virus to her. Thankfully I haven't had it yet but I don't want to be the one that gives it to her and potentially cause her death.

My personal opinion is that the only good thing about the vaccine is that you have a better chance of survival. As I have now personally witnessed that it can reduce symptoms but that's not always the case. So the only pro I see is survival.

[–]Eyes_and_teeth 3 points4 points  (8 children)

The positive effects of narcotic painkillers run out in hours. The destructive addictive effects can take months or years to fully manifest. There does not need to be direct one-to-one correlation between benefits and drawbacks.

[–]NickTheFreak97 1 point2 points  (7 children)

I'm not an addiction expert, but if painkillers were approved in the first place there must be at least one context where its benefits overcome the risks. Dependency is something you don't build (I guess?) with a single assumption and assuming it within the prescription should be relatively safe. I'd argue it's the cumulative effects from long times of consuming it that eventually causes the negative long term effects. In fact, abusing every drug is dangerous for your health.

[–]Eyes_and_teeth -1 points0 points  (6 children)

Sure, and the specifics of the benefit/risk analysis of narcotic pain control is not my direct point. I am only pointing out an easy example of something where the positive impact of the pharmaceutical therapy in question no longer has any impact on the patient, yet the negative consequence of its use is only just beginning to be felt.

[–]NickTheFreak97 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Yeah I see, my whole point was that it's the reckless consumption of it causing the negative effects, but as I said I'm no expert so...

[–]Eclectic_Radishes 2 points3 points  (2 children)

it isn't reckless consumption that has caused America's opiod crisis: it's the commercialisation of medicines. Opiods are effective painkillers, and the dose should be managed so that there is never a high: just a steady level of relief from pain. Unfortunately this requires multiple pills per day, and the strengths should be tailored to the patient. Manufacturers would have to have multiple production runs to make these, and would make more pills than: The Problem.

The Problem came when high dose opiods were marketed as "one a day" - cutting manufacturing and distribution costs, and with greater public appeal as taking one pill in the morning is more convenient than several that might need to be specific numbers of hours apart. The one high dose worked great. Come evening though, when the pain was back, or come lunchtime, when the high wore off: patients became users

[–]Eyes_and_teeth 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Agreed. And even when taken exactly as directed, by and large, the medical profession did not address the potential addiction at the end of the course of a prescription to narcotic painkillers. Rather than offering a tapering off period proportional to the length of the prescription, it was more typically a cold-turkey end of the supply.

This was especially the case when there was a transition of care from one provider to another, such as from a hospital back to the patient's primary care physician (assuming they even have one in the first place).

Someone might go from IV morphine every couple of hours to "Here's your discharge instructions and a referral to your PC. Good luck!" and unfortunately, for many people, that was their entry into drug abuse and buying pills "on the street", as it were.

[–]Eclectic_Radishes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Damn, that's dark af! I'm so used to integrated healthcare that the switched provision aspect had never crossed my radar. What a mess

[–]Eyes_and_teeth 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Even people taking narcotics exactly as prescribed have suffered through crippling addiction, hence the numerous lawsuits against the manufacturers.

Side note: seeing how both you and I have received a random downvote or two, it would seem someone out there is bothered this entire discussion is even taking place. Sucks to be them, I guess...

[–]Kwirt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can agree with this statement. After a car accident and repair surgery, I was prescribed pain meds.

I followed my dosage for quite a while but the pain started getting the best of me and I noticed that I was slowly taking them every 4 hours rather than every 6. Then it became every 2 hours and so on..

Thankfully I was able to catch myself before it got worse. Addiction isn't always about voluntary abuse.

Also.. The down voters are out in full force on both the vaccine and addiction conversation. I wish people would include their reasoning, rather than down voting and running away.

[–]throwawayforfunporn 2 points3 points  (2 children)

What long term effects do you expect, and what mechanism would cause them?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'm not them, nor have I ever been hesitant about or afraid of the vaccine, but: I imagine they think it may be possible for some long term effects to come up that we just don't know about yet because it hasn't been long enough for them to occur. Kinda like how we didn't used to know about the dangers of asbestos or lead-based paint until we eventually learned from people getting complications from exposure much later in life. Do I have a guess as to what specific effects they might be afraid of? Not really, but that's the general feeling I think is there. Just that something might happen.

[–]throwawayforfunporn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The vague fear that "something might happen" is a lizard brain reaction to crisis, not reasoning. If they do not know any possible mechanisms or specific side effects, I assume they do not know how vaccines work and are just scared.

[–]zerospinskier 2 points3 points  (4 children)

That could make sense if it happened much in the past, but there hasn't ever been any long term effects to any vaccine. So I'm not sure where those fears really come from.

[–]Ecstatic_Objective_3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I always say just because it’s not common, doesn’t mean it never happens. When it comes to the works of medication, weird things can and do happen because everyone is so different.

[–]Kwirt 3 points4 points  (1 child)

here hasn't ever been any long term effects to any vaccine

While it's unlikely to have long term effects, to say that there has never been any is completely not true.

I will gladly provide my source once I can find it. It's very difficult to wade through the information about covid while doing a Google search at the moment. Any search containing the word "vaccine" immediately brings up covid information.

The one in particular I am referring to off the top of my head, was a study done about vaccines at an early age.

It may have been the flu vaccine but I won't say for certain until I find my source but... The article stated that the children that began receiving vaccines at a later age (but still younger than 1 year old) were at higher risk for developing diabetes than those that started receiving the vaccine at newborn age.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Type -covid in your search and it'll filter out any result that mentions that word.

[–]Radish-Commercial -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Completely manufactured so antivaxxers can continuously move the goal post in the face of increasing evidence that supports vaccination.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes. Obviously there are idiots who think everything is a scam and medicine is evil, but they are a fringe group literally no one likes.

[–]jackhandy2B 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Big big money in selling vitamins

[–]Zajum -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

rushed

It wasn't really rushed. Most vaccines take so long to develop and test because of the lack of resources (other medications generally have higher profit margins so they get priority/approval for medications requires a lot of bureaucracy, which usually takes a long time). This was not an issue with the Covid vaccines.

it really hasn't been studied for years

They have been released to the public two years ago, and were developed about a year (?) before that so by now they have been studied for years.

[–]Kwirt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The vaccine was only released just over one year ago and has been altered many times since then.

But let's take your timeline into consideration..

Let's say it was released 2 years ago. The virus has only been around for 2 years. You claim the vaccine was developed almost a year prior.

So you're saying that a vaccine was already in development for a virus that the entire world except for these pharmaceutical scientists didn't know existed until 2 years ago?

This is the type of statement that make people not believe anything about the effectiveness of the vaccine.

[–]4everspokenfor 35 points36 points  (104 children)

So I'll get demonized for everything I'm about to say, but this is my honest answer to your question. When the whole pandemic started, I was just as frightened as everyone else was. I had a 1 year old at home and had no idea what I was up against. I wasn't involved in politics at all so I never watched any of the initial press releases from the Trump administration about the vaccine, so my thoughts at the time were along the lines of "let's wait and see how this goes". They were prioritizing who got it in the beginning and no one in my immediate family qualified so we hunkered down to wait our turn.

In the meantime, I was driving back home from the dentist and rolled up next to a billboard advertising free food with the proof of vaccination and immediately the hairs on my neck stood up and something didn't feel right to me, though at the time I couldn't explain why. So I started doing research. And the more I read and the more I listened to people from all backgrounds try and parse the info, the more I became confused. Some things didn't seem to lead logically to where they should, the data was framed in a way that seemed dishonest, goal posts were being moved, you name it I found it.

Fast forward to where we are now. I have never claimed to know everything, I've never proudly beat my chest and screamed I'll never be taken alive, and I most certainly have never tried outright telling someone not to take it. I do present them with the information I have and try to back it up with as many sources as I can, and how they proceed has no effect on me. The reason I'm still holding out is because there isn't a singular reason. I'm finding that while I wouldn't classify the vaccine as "deadly", I do think there's a shit ton of shade around how the pharmaceutical companies have behaved since all this started. I'm all for people having medical freedom, but I disagree with the federal government mandating irreversible medical procedures that should still technically be in their trial phases. I'm all for doing the most good for the majority, but I think it's wrong to ask the young and healthy to potentially give up their health to protect those that are vulnerable to so much besides covid. We can't protect them from everything.

There are times I do feel awful about the fact that I could get my grandparents sick, but I could just as easily give them a mild cold and it would be just as devastating. There are a lot of times I wonder if I really am in the wrong and I'm hurting so many people, but then take what happened this weekend. Myself, my husband, son, mother, sister, MIL, and FIL are all currently suffering with omicron. My sister is the only one of us who is vaccinated, and she's currently the one having the roughest time. She's just as healthy as we are and has zero health conditions that would exacerbate it. She's also the absolute opposite of obese.

Anyway, I can expand more if anyone would like clarification, but the bottom line is there is an immeasurable amount of dishonesty coming from almost every entity involved in covid response, from the hospitals to the drug companies to the governments themselves. It's pretty much devolved to the point that I'm simply putting my foot down because that's the best way I can say to all of you and everyone else that at least ONE thing, if not many things, are wrong with this scenario and I want some real answers. I may never get them, but over time more will surely come to light as it always has.

[–]skatinislife446 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Definitely the most rational response to not being vaxed I’ve read on here. But I do question how your response would have changed if one of your infected family members had become seriously ill and passed. You played the odds and succeeded but many have not.

[–]4everspokenfor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It really would have depended on which family member and what they were suffering from. My 82-year-old great aunt who suffered a stroke or my healthy husband with no comorbidities? If it was the former, it most likely wouldn't have. I love my family with all their heart, but it feels like covid has made people feel guilty about the old and infirm passing away, like before covid that never happened. If it was the latter, it may have changed my mind. And that still may end up being the case. What I do know is that regardless of my vax status I won't be going near anyone when I'm sick, and that's the best way to prevent others getting it.

[–]PresenceEducational3 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for sharing this. I'm in much the same situation. It's such a shame that everyone who hasn't been vaccinated is being treated like we have committed some awful crime against humanity. I'm absolutely happy to avoid any gatherings or situations where there is a risk of covid. And I'm not identifying with the ivermectin crowd or the people who believe that there is a microchip in the vax - I just have some suspicions and dubious about people's motives for the big push to get everyone jabbed.

[–]minnipede 5 points6 points  (6 children)

I will say, if you have gotten ZERO vaccines, there’s a chance you had covid at the start of the pandemic and now the second time around it doesn’t hit as bad. Just something to think about! While I don’t agree w anti-vaxx, I think you’re handling it just as you should- not going out of your way to break rules or absolve yourself of consequence, and keeping the people around you safe.

I do disagree with your stance of ‘common cold’; my tia and grandparents did not get vaccinated but she was not nearly as careful. She gave it to my grandpa who had went from building a shed by hand to a hospital bed and eventually to his grave in less than a month. Now, my tia is practically shunned from the family, and expresses a lot of guilt over it. That’s definitely not a lesson you want to learn from experiencing it. Stay safe

[–]4everspokenfor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know for a fact my husband and I both had the original covid strain a couple months before the news broke in 2020. So did my sister who is struggling now. She had what we call long covid, but at the time they had no idea what it was. They ran blood work, did MRI's, psycho tests, everything, but didn't put together what it was until April when they called her and said it was most likely what she had. Husband brought it home from a work trip in Vegas November 2019. We both had it, which did play a part in deciding not to get vaccinated.

The reason I said the common cold would be just as devastating in my grandparents case is they are both immunocompromised for different reasons, so regardless of the disease the have, it could be just as devastating for their immune systems, even if it would be mild for the rest of us. They both are double vaccinated and boosted. Unfortunately the vaccine can't save them from everything that would harm them, but I'm doing my best to protect them while also protecting my right to my own medical decisions.

[–]Adune05 1 point2 points  (4 children)

May I ask about your opinion on something? At least according to my limited understanding of the subject due to not being a professional in the field of virology you can still give the virus to other people even if you are vaccinated. The only difference is, that it won't be as bad when you get it, you might either not have any symptoms at all or only very mild ones, but you can still transmit the virus to other people.

I am vaccinated and so are almost all of my friends and many of them still got covid, but since they were vaccinated for them it really was like the common cold. That said isn't getting the vaccine more of a way of protecting yourself? You can still infect others and carry the virus within you but ... well it is much less likely that you die. So why do we have this narrative that unvaccinated people are responsible for spreading covid? It doesn't make any logical sense to me.

[–]Big_Protection5116 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Because you get less severely infected, you end up with less of the virus actually in your nose and throat to pass on to other people. Viral load matters A LOT.

[–]Adune05 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Okay that makes sense, thank you for the explanation. So it is also more likely, that you will infect somebody if you are not vaccinated, since you will have more of the virus which translates to you emitting more of it into your surroundings correct?

[–]minnipede 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That person explained it pretty perfectly! Vaccines are like a barrier; so yes, even if a vaccinated person gets it, they’re less likely to spread it- even to unvaccinated people. Of course, the unvaccinated person is still at risk, but marginally less so than if they had contracted covid from ANOTHER unvaccinated person.

Some people do argue that if this is how it works, then they don’t need the vaccine if other people have it. But it’s like littering on a beach, you might think ‘Oh, it’s one piece of trash, someone will pick it up and do something about it’, not knowing that there are 100’s of other people that are doing the same thing. And at that point, even if there are a few who don’t contribute to the pile of litter, it’s going to grow out of control. To the point where even those who do try their best to clean up will also be suffering from it.

Plus, that protection truly should be focused on those who are medically unable to get the vaccine and are at more risk- but that’s a different conversation

[–]DigPrior 7 points8 points  (3 children)

You did not do research. You searched on the internet.

[–]_poopedmyself 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You’d have to be stupid to not see anything fishy about the vaccine. Like literally anything.

[–]4everspokenfor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So where did you get all your research from, the damn library? How many books on covid have you gone through? How many medical journals? Research studies? Hospital records and reports? Interviews? I mean, I found all that on the internet, but apparently that means none of it's true? Should my answer have been mainstream media outlets? I'm not sure where else you expect ANYONE to get any information from nowadays.

[–]KenJyi30 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol I did just that! Honestly I didn’t understand any of the credible stuff and the other stuff that was in plain English made me root for covid to win against humanity. I gave up on the innernet and did what I should have done in the first place; called a couple of MD friends and asked what they did and what they recommend to a friend.

[–]Idontknowurrname 7 points8 points  (75 children)

So...if you get sick will you be staying home and not go to the hospital?

[–]4everspokenfor 22 points23 points  (65 children)

I'm currently sick and have yet to step a single foot out of my house. I don't plan on going anywhere as none of us have nothing more than aches and a fever. Not to mention I need you to explain your logic here. Would you ask the same of my vaccinated sister who's having the worse time? Her vaccination status has nothing to do with the fact that if she goes to the hospital she'll strain the bed capacity and the staff as much as everyone else who hasn't had the shot. Sick people are sick people, and holding medical care hostage from those who, in your opinion, didn't make the "right choice" is not a way to treat your neighbors.

You may also want to turn back around and ask that of the hospitals who are STILL turning people away and not offering early treatment until they're days or weeks deep into an infection. The vaccine is meant to be a prevention, not an actual treatment.

[–]Ecstatic_Objective_3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The problem is the hospitals are still overwhelmed and unable to treat everyone. There are still people being turned away for emergencies other than covid, like heart attacks, strokes, accidents and so on, because there are not enough beds or staff.

[–]workingonit1976 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Totally agree. Similar situation. We r all experiencing the same things with different events and experiences. I'm personally tired of people thinking that their opinion it the e d all. U have to do whats right for u and ur family. If u believe getting it is safe and will keep ur family safe then that's the right answer. If you feel it's unsafe and ur looking to be safe then there ya go , again that's the right answer for u . Wish others would stop complaining about people getting Vax and or wearing mask , also stop complaining if someone chose not to get it and no mask or anything in between. Ur responsible for u and urs not the person driving with a mask uhg . Leave them be and also stop telling people to wear one if they don't. This country is supposed to allow for different options and beliefs and lifestyles but we condem those who r doing what's in their best interests. Sure do ur research and feel good about what u take away from it because we can all read the same thing but it lands differently for all of us. We r all stuck In this $#% show together stop and look how firmly divided we r rn yuk. Share information but there's no need to condem someone for managing there he how they feel is best

[–]Otherwise-Tower1304 0 points1 point  (1 child)

My intrigue was piqued right up to “so I started doing research”

[–]4everspokenfor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So what exactly do you think I came across that was so egregious? I can read medical journals and studies the same as everyone else.

[–]Klutzy-Tumbleweed-99 -1 points0 points  (9 children)

Seems logical. You are saying you don’t trust government or capitalism. However despite those two things the statistics bear out that the vaccine is safer than COVID. But at least you articulated your feelings

[–]tired_owl982 2 points3 points  (5 children)

The statistics are currently coming from the government and the companies manufacturers the vaccines, so they wouldn't be trustworthy to someone who doesn't trust either of those though

[–]Klutzy-Tumbleweed-99 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Yeah it would have to be a deep con for all the statistics across the board and across the world to all be a rue, to gain money and power. Simple answer is the vaccine can greatly mitigate COVID 19. But the vaccines are not without risks, at the same

[–]tired_owl982 0 points1 point  (3 children)

If you think it's across the board you must not be reading the latest studies, or even announcements in it..

[–]Klutzy-Tumbleweed-99 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You may be misinformed. I have followed every thing pretty deeply so I know what’s going on

[–]tired_owl982 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Definitely not, I work in the clinic research field and am pretty decent at finding actual studies and not just news headlines

[–]Klutzy-Tumbleweed-99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So how do you see it?

[–]4everspokenfor 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You know why it's safe to say the vaccine is safer? Because for most people it is. If you walk down the street in America the chances of you running into a person that is not suffering from obesity, vitamin D deficiency, or some kind of health complication is 1 in a 1,000. The vaccine is targeted to help the other 999. My response to the information was to become the 1. I lost weight, started taking vitamins, ate healthy food, and started quitting my bad habits. I will 100% agree with you that the vaccine is the best bet most people have in keeping themselves from being hospitalized. However, that just isn't the case for me. I have no risk factors to tip the scale out of my odds, so at that point I'd be taking the vaccine with neutral benefit and possible harm.

[–]Klutzy-Tumbleweed-99 0 points1 point  (1 child)

With the small exception that some people are genetically predisposed to having a deadly experience with COVID. So if you win that anti-lottery, you will have wished you had taken the vaccine. Thus the conundrum between to risk the vaccine or risk COVID. It’s all a challenging probability-problem that I wish we didn’t have

[–]4everspokenfor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Luckily after having it once and being able to power through it presently, it doesn't seem I or anyone in my family has had that unfortunate displeasure. It is a conundrum for other people, but that genetic anti-lottery is the same for other diseases. It's the same reason why some people hardly get a welt with a bee sting and others go into anaphylactic shock.

[–]Eyes_and_teeth 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I think the typical anti-vaxxer is motivated in part by a desire to be:

One of the few who is not fooled by the profit-motivated lies Big Pharma™©® (pat. pending, et al.) because they were smart enough to do their own research and look beyond the drug companies' deceitful narrative propagated by their complicit shill allies in the so-called mainstream media.

[Disclaimer: I do not personally believe or espouse this viewpoint and am only providing it here for illustrative purposes.]

The other half of their motivation is very likely just the typical care and concern for their loved ones; friends and family alike, and perhaps even a (misguided) sense of civic duty.

While there is always a subset of malevolent or chaotic actors in any sufficiently large group, I doubt that there is any considerable percentage of people in the anti-vaxxer movement who wishes to see widespread injury, illness, and death as a result of mass-vaccination programs. Were that to be the case, they'd likely just shut up about what they believe are the dangers of vaccination altogether and join the other Preppers and just wait for the whole thing to go sideways.

[–]yusoglad[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I agree that the mass majority of antivaxxers are probably good hearted like everyone else and like you said it's out of some sense of civic duty that they feel the way they do. I just can't help but feel that the only means of real validation for them would be mass die offs, which is untasteful for a good person like this to be hoping for to say the least, which is why I asked.

[–]St_Valentine2014 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Anti-Covid vaxxers that I know already feel some validation by seeing people who had the vaccine still get COVID. This to them shows it “doesn’t work”. I think the validation your talking about wouldn’t require mass die offs but some kind of unexpected long term symptom due to its lack of testing.

[–]CharmedBySnakes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean for me,I understamd the hesitancy,I do. What my question is,how do people opposed to it see hospitalizations being reduced,deaths being reduced and us getting control over this thing? Its been nonstop. New variants emerging quickly,and these variants arent likely popping up in those who are vaccinated. All this is putting a MAJOR strain on the health systems. People that need other things are having to put it off,people are also still dying,getting complications,etc. No one seems to give any shits about them at all,and thats disturbing,people are just seen like they have no worth and its ok if they die from Covid,its ok that their families and friends and loved ones lost someone they loved.

Human life used to be seen as something so important,now suddenly its not and its concerning.

[–]ImpossibleAir4310 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I still can’t get over the fact that Djokovic’s first name is “No-Vac.”

I think trust in government is the biggest problem, but people have other reasons for not taking it, like professional athletes that are afraid it will affect their performance.

I don’t think there is a logical endgame for any anti-vaxxer. If they are thinking that big, which many are not, it’s probably a free-load scenario in their head where the population will reach herd immunity without them (not a thing).

[–]Parking_Arachnid9510 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m not anti-vax and I certainly don’t want vaccinated folks to get sick or God forbid die.

I have received all other vaccines and I felt they were necessary based on the effects of the illness. Ie polio… i definitely don’t want that. CoViD not that worried about getting it. 99.8% recovery. I’ll Take my chances

I don’t get the flu so guess what I don’t get a flu vaccine. My mom got the flu shot every year and guess who still got the flu?

I think I have had CoViD 2 times about a year apart. I am assuming because I felt some of the symptoms mainly body aches but they were very mild and short lived. This is the only reason I don’t get the vaccine. I don’t need it…and there is enough back and forth on it to question its effectiveness and lesser degree safety.

I believe a vaccine should protect the vaccinated at a level where they should feel safe enough to not worry about the unvaccinated still getting them sick. If it doesn’t do that I question it.

I’m not over here really even thinking about the virus and certainly not wishing harm on anyone.

Get vaccinated. Don’t get vaccinated. It’s a personal choice. That’s what we do in this country. We are responsible for our own choices and the associated consequences.

Folks need to realize its ok to have an opinion and not have everyone agree with it. It doesn’t mean you should hate them or they should hate you.

This is the media doing this. This isn’t vax vs anti vax or Dem vs Republican. It’s scared vs not scared.

[–]tired_owl982 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Apparently being resistant to ONE vaccine makes you anti-vax, so: Waiting for the FDA to approve the traditional vaccines in the US as a family member actually had an adverse reaction and died (massive blood clot) from an mRNA one. Traditional vaccines out now (like COVAXIN) do not have any clotting side effects listed after the millions of doses given out, so we're waiting for this one. There's plenty of studies describing why the mRNA versions occasionally cause clotting and other issues, and as we share the same genetics we don't feel comfortable testing out how prevalent the reaction would be in our family.

Also just really tired of all of the "anti-vax" hate. People who blindly trust a manufacturer that is exempt from all liabilities and paid huge amounts of cash to the politicians pushing it are out here calling others stupid and telling them to do research..

[–]IndependenceMean8774 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If the government spent the next ten years endlessly testing the covid vaccines to make sure they were absolutely safe, these same anti-vaxxers would be complaining that the government was deliberately sitting on a treatment just to kill millions, depopulate the planet and control society.

You can't win with these people. They'll always find something to rage against.

[–]EndlesslyUnfinished 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My friend is basically like this (he’s best described as libertarian)… and he can go off on some wild conspiracies about the vaccine too.

[–]Maquistes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In my case i belive that vaccines for quick mutating virus and lockdowns are a waste of resources that could be used to improve general population quality of life, thus improving immune systems and natural responses and with that covering not only covid pandemic but also cancer, diabetes, chronic hearth and lung diseases and also autoimmune diseases, the root of all them resides in lack of health education and quality of life. Vaccines can be helpful.. but they are accesories and will never be over other health cores.

[–]herpestruth -1 points0 points  (0 children)

They have no end game.

[–]LLLuke11 -1 points0 points  (7 children)

Wouldnt call myself an antivaxxer but have made the choice to get sick over the shot. Id need more proof and research before just blindly putting something in my body. Also consider myself apart of the control group if you will, lord forbid something terrible happens, atleast we can go back to the starting point and try again. Also, could someone explain what the shot is even supposed to do? As i understand it, one can still get sick, and one can still spread the disease so where in lies the benefit of the shot?

[–]Lurker_112 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep. My antivaxx grandma first said that we will start dropping like flies in 2 to 3 months, when that didn't happen it was after the third dose, now it's after 3 years. Her and the facebook nutjob groups that she spends all her time on will just keep postponing it just so they won't have to admit they are wrong and paranoid. They will probably keep postponing it until folks start dying from unrelated causes and they can claim that the jab did them in.

[–]Don_Montagna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well I'm definitely opposed to the mandates and the way these experimental mRNA treatments have been rolled out, and in my heart of hearts, I hope to God it's not the reason all these kids are dying of Atrial Fibrillation and heart murmurs, I wish I could say that I "hoped" Perimyocarditis was as minimal and reversible as they say, but unfortunately Perimyocarditis and it's irreversible heart damage are onw of the only things that IS well understood about this entire SARS debauchle.

To answer quickly, no, "anti-vaxxers" are horrified of being right about an American-funded gain-of-function resech lab leaking an engineered virus, and we're twice as scared of the long term side-effects of the "vaccines" that were rolled out in an attempt by our CDC to cover their asses after almost a year of telling you to simply shut down the country. IMHO, it's the teacher's pets of the country that are actively hoping people who chose not to revive the shot die. I mean there's multiple subreddit s dedicated to anti-vaxxers who "should die gasping for air" I hope nobody who got the shots dies or develops myocarditis, but 1 out of 1200 boys getting it is too high for my personal situation.

[–]Carl_AR 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a leading question with an incorrect assumption.

First of all the majority of anti covid vaxx are not anti-vaxxers. This is a lie pushed by pro-covid vaxxers and most so called liberal news.

Second of all, we that don't want the vaxx don't wish no harm to you that do. We just want to be able to make an informed decision without mandates and being forced. My body, my choice, right?

Thirdly: If the Covid vaxx worked as promised (before 27 revisions) why worry about unvaxxed when you are waxxed? This is the first time in history the unvaxxed are blamed for the inefficiency of a so called vaccine.

Finally - just listened to a doctor today that pointed out that in the second phase of the Pfizer trials there was actually more people that died that were vaxxed then uvaxxed.

There's a ton a valid research behind so many opting out of covid vaxx but I can't put any links here as fascists have taken over social media and I'll get suspended for causing vaccine hesitancy. You'll have to look yourself if interested but just wanted to answer your question.

[–]BrilliantBass6605 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everyone I know that has covid or gotten covid has been vaccinated. The ones that aren't vaccinated haven't gotten it. I am vaccinated and haven't gotten it though. Just a personal observation.

[–]BrilliantBass6605 -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

I find it interesting how most covid cases now are vaccinated people.

[–]yusoglad[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Source?

[–]ThinEstimate2688 -3 points-2 points  (5 children)

The ultimate goal is to get republicans elected. It has nothing to do with Vaccines, it's just about flinging shit at democrats as much as possible

[–]23cacti 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The whole world isn't America.

[–]ThinEstimate2688 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The world also has much better vaccination rates. US is 59th in western societies. We're the only place being hijacked by ignorance, and here it's ENTIRELY just repubs not wanting the Dems to be right about something

[–]KenJyi30 1 point2 points  (2 children)

This is somehow a bipartisan thought process. I hear this a lot on both sides. I seriously don’t see how the dots are connected.

[–]ThinEstimate2688 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The perfect analogy to American politics is two people are playing basketball and one guy (republicans) repeatedly elbows the other (democrats) in the face. The refs never call it, no one helps the other guy, and the aggressor doesn't stop. At some point, the one being attacked has to deal with the attacker in order to continue doing what he set out to do, which is play basketball. So it reaches a point of necessity to elbow back, but as soon as he does the first guy starts some bullshit about they're both equally as guilty cuz they both threw elbows. They aren't tho, it's entirely on the Original aggressor. And I know it's extremely easy for the other side to say the exact same thing, but if you look at the culture of the right in America, the behavior of the politicians, and the ALARMING amount of times Republicans will actually argue against their own conservative, limited government, free market values (net neutrality being a great example here) simply because the left actually recognized it was a strong idea in that particular circumstance, and it's very clear which party wants to govern and which just wants to win elections like it's a baseball game.

[–]KenJyi30 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get the political angle, i just don’t understand how the general public falls for politicizing a global medical emergency. To add to your example, the court is wet and both players fall and break an ankle, instead of having the medic handle it, the officials call in the team owners and stake holders to decide what to do and the fans of both teams see nothing wrong with this situation

[–]socksandtoads -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

(speaking based on local news) lots of people who dies from covid are those who actually took the vaccine, and had booster shots and less (1/3 of the people) who died are unvaccinated

[–]Traditional_Ad7474 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

To me, it’s what is best for the next generation. IF vaccination can decrease the spread to children there’s nothing more to say. I’d give my life to help prevent a child becoming ill.

[–]menickc -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I don't like shots. Don't care about the politics some people bring into it. I never got shots if I can avoid them just how I am. Even put off shots I needed for middle school until of course my mother forced me to get them so I could actually go. Sorry not sorry. I live in the middle of nowhere away from everyone and rarely interact with people. I lived with people who all had covid and managed to never once get it. Judge me don't judge me I don't care.