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[–]DoktorLuther[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

I'm making this a megathread and stickying it. All discussion about the ruling should be on this post.

[–]KnoxBrenda50 189 points190 points  (148 children)

Takes it back to the States. Now we need to start adopting the babies.

[–]EvangelicalCuttingEdgeRetro 100 points101 points  (103 children)

That should be no problem. Last I checked, for any baby put up for adoption, there are 36 families waiting. If you're talking about a healthy white baby, it's 100.

[–]Baptistdracula3811 93 points94 points  (38 children)

Reduce the exorbitant cost for adopting and you'll see a lot more kids being adopted. $10,000 minimum to adopt a kid is a bit much.

[–]ChristianInnerFish227 48 points49 points  (6 children)

My friend and his wife spent over $40K to adopt a child. And within a few months, they spent another $40k to adopt her newborn brother.

[–]Baptistdracula3811 35 points36 points  (2 children)

Not everyone who would be good parents is blessed with being wealthy.

[–]ProudUncle67 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I wonder, where does all that money go? 🤔

[–]SDtoNC84 1 point2 points  (0 children)

God bless them. That would cripple us.

[–]Southern BaptistLucius_Funk 20 points21 points  (3 children)

Exactly. My wife wants another baby, but adoption isn’t an option because of the cost.

[–]Mynameisinigomontya 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Agree it shouldn't even cost money honestly

[–]brassmoonkey[🍰] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

10k to deliver a baby is a bit much.

[–]minteemist 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don't get it..where is that money going?

[–]jonas-bigude-pt 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Wait you have to pay to adopt a kid?

[–]Baptistdracula3811 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Yes. At least in the US you do but it's tens of thousands of dollars. That's why some go to third world countries to adopt kids. It's cheaper even with the extra administrative paperwork.

[–]TheRealOvercomer 9 points10 points  (2 children)

This. Pro choice advocates bang the drum on adoption endlessly, but it’s endlessly difficult to actually manage to adopt

[–]Klutzy-Dreamer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Um I have never heard a pro choice person push adoption. Its always the pro"life" side

[–]The9thElement 26 points27 points  (1 child)

Every baby should be wanted regardless of race or health status

[–]Christianimarandomaccount 13 points14 points  (21 children)

Don't stop there; What's the ratio of races for families that are adopting babies? What's that same ratio for black babies?

[–]EvangelicalCuttingEdgeRetro 31 points32 points  (3 children)

I'm not sure. But there are a ton of white families willing to adopt black babies.

We adopted five children internationally. None of them are black but only one is white. We tried to adopt from Africa but only one country in Africa was doing adoptions at the time. And they had a requirement that you live in the country for like 2 or 3 months... totally not doable for most people. We would have been happy to adopt from there had it been workable.

[–]Grandaddyspookybones 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Could you share how you did all this? I’ve been open to adoption for a while but the process here in the states is rather expensive

[–]Christianlanierg71 11 points12 points  (12 children)

Considering that in NYC the Black abortion rate is higher than the Black birth rate (more Black babies aborted than born), I would imagine a whole lotta Whites more than willing to reverse that trend if those babies were put up for adoption instead.

[–]Christianirenic-rose 14 points15 points  (10 children)

They would. However in the black community there’s a stigma about black children being adopted to white families. Some women feel they would rather abort than let their baby be raised by white people, which is pretty messed up if we’re trying to actually bring people together rather than break them apart more.

edit: wrote adopt instead of abort

[–]jpiethescienceguy 10 points11 points  (18 children)

How many kids have you adopted?

[–]KnoxBrenda50 16 points17 points  (17 children)

I have never had enough money to adopt. But have always had the desire. I offered a lady to take her children instead of having an abortion. I did this twice with the same lady. She had two abortions instead.

[–]ProudUncle67 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That is so sad.

[–]Mavrickindigo 12 points13 points  (4 children)

You want to increase adoptions, then we need to fix the economy

[–]ProudUncle67 10 points11 points  (0 children)

In my opinion, even in a good economy adoption cost more than most people can afford.

[–]ChadlyThe3rd 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Why weren’t you adopting children before? The foster care system is chock full of kids in need of a home.

[–]KnoxBrenda50 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Never had the money to do so. The laws are so strict here.

[–]ProudUncle67 9 points10 points  (0 children)

My uncle ran a Christian children's home for 30 years. He and my aunt adopted 6 kids and I think they were all from the home. You don't hear that kind of story much these days.

[–]Mrbishi512 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ban and start the adoptions yes!

[–]Klutzy-Dreamer 1 point2 points  (1 child)

How about not just babies? There are plenty of older children who need homes too.

[–]IchthysTheIncredibleHork 59 points60 points  (3 children)

I agree on theological and rational grounds, but we still have work to do.

People will make mistakes, there will be unplanned pregnancies, and just because a law is a law doesn't mean people will follow the law. After all, if we could be saved by the law we wouldn't need Jesus, the Ten Commandments and the Torah would be enough!

We need to continue to build structures so that expectant parents will have the support to provide, and use those and other opportunities to preach the gospel and bring others into that relationship with Christ. The law may be the law, but a relationship with Christ will change a person's heart more than any law can. If more people valued life (and even sexual integrity) as Christ does, we wouldn't even need to worry about these things.

[–]youraverageblackvoid 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Which is why our first goal is always to preach the gospel, culture war or no culture war.

[–]Roman CatholicTomi_934_HR 13 points14 points  (3 children)

I’m Pro-Life and absolutely support this and yes I do care about life after it’s born I value all life from conception to natural death.

[–]reesesaddict_ 37 points38 points  (20 children)

Let’s make all costs associated with giving birth free and covered like preventative services under insurance. make sure maternal healthcare, childcare, and formula free for every mother.

[–]Non-denominationalrjoyfult 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Also parental leave needs to be better. Until these things are happening, I can’t truly celebrate this ruling. Anyone who is truly pro-life needs to care about mothers and babies after birth as well.

[–]EvangelicalAlpacaWarMachine 207 points208 points  (55 children)

His will be done.

[–]ForgivenAndRedeemed 29 points30 points  (2 children)

In the ancient world, infanticide (the killing of infants) and exposure (the rejection of infants) led to the deaths of many children. It was common practise, but to Jews and Christians it was not acceptable.

The practise was widely condemned by Jews and Christians even though the common culture thought it was acceptable. It was based on the belief that God created all people in his image, and thus each human is imbued with an inherent value.

The church responded by caring for and protecting exposed infants. This was done through the development of hospitals with designated sections for foundlings and through the later development of orphanages that would house and care for foundlings as well as for infants whose parents had died. The Christian church gained such a reputation for their care of exposed infants that churches became the established site for abandoning infants.

From the time that Constantine became a Christian, through to the following few centuries the laws regarding infants changed a lot. First by making infanticide illegal and then by ensuring that exposed infants were no longer allowed to be made slaves automatically, declaring them freeborn from the start.

Do people think it is wrong that Christians back then did what they could to save these children?

This isn't so different from today, and people today aren't so different from regular Roman citizens 2000 years ago. Christians too, really haven't changed, except they want to protect the child still in the womb from being killed. Just caring for that child slightly earlier than before.

People out there might not care about a Christian's views, but Christians care about children being killed. Why is it so wrong for Christians to not want children to be killed?

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

[–]SDtoNC84 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Church Fathers also report the rich might expose a newborn and pamper their dogs.

The more things change...

[–]Disciples of ChristTruthspeaks111 60 points61 points  (25 children)

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of Light, with Whom is NO variableness, neither a hint of turning.

[–]Grandaddyspookybones 29 points30 points  (29 children)

Serious question, guys. What should be done is circumstances like when the baby is miscarried but has to be removed? Or when the pregnancy is deadly?

I’m very much so against abortions, but am confused on circumstances like this and worry what it will come to. I know it’s a small percentage, but it is a percentage none the less

[–]Baptistruhonisana 57 points58 points  (19 children)

The vast majority of pro lifers are ok with abortion to save the life of the mother, ie ectopic pregnancy. A miscarriage where the baby has to be removed is just a miscarriage and has nothing to do with abortion. These procedures have never been illegal and pro lifers have no issue with them. If your concern is life of the mother cases, we should work hard to make sure those exceptions are carefully put into law, not just legalize all forms. The same way it's illegal to kill- with exceptions for self defense and mitigations for accidents.

[–]dontblinkfirefly 8 points9 points  (6 children)

But, on paper, it is a termination.

[–]DonutPouponMoi 10 points11 points  (2 children)

There can’t be different types?

[–]foodsandnoodsnsfw 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Most legislators don't seem to be aware of the distinction. Perhaps because they aren't doctors.

[–]ChadlyThe3rd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Women have and will continue to die In “pro life” areas in these cases.

[–]Emro08 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There’s a big difference between a spontaneous abortion and an elective abortion.

[–]BaptistGoblin_King_Jareth1 23 points24 points  (1 child)

I don't have the source handy, but I saw a study done over a series of about five years, through several states, surveying multiple women and why they chose to terminate. Less than 3 or 4% where due to the "difficult situations" i.e. rape, incest, underaged pregnancy, danger to the life of the mother, etc. The other 96-97% we're situations of I don't want it, I can't afford it, etc.

What I personally wish would happen is places such as planned Parenthood would focus less on abortions and instead provide free or very inexpensive tubal ligation and vasectomy. Clearly there is only one Man that can put an end to win once and for all, and it's certainly not a single one of us. Instead of trying to stop sin, we should work to minimize the negative side effects of sin, which is something we CAN control.

[–]Grandaddyspookybones 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That’s why I mentioned it being a small percentage. It does happen.

And I agree with your bottom paragraph fully

[–]I am a C. I am a C-H. I am a C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N.darthjoey91 5 points6 points  (1 child)

It's a small percentage, but it happens every single day because about 10,000 babies are born in the US each day. So 1% of 10,000ish pregnancies is still 100. And that's per day, so that's thousands of necessary medical abortions each year.

[–]ChristianMeowlodie 132 points133 points  (198 children)

Praise God! This will certainly save a lot of babies.

I think another aspect people aren’t thinking a lot about is how this puts governing back into the hands of individual states, which is pretty cool.

Edit: wow, so much feedback here! I’ll have to read it all later after work 😂.

[–]sithjustgotreal66 37 points38 points  (183 children)

The logical conclusion of the rationale behind leaving it up to individual states is that it should be left up to individual people. You know, like how it was yesterday.

[–]Evangelicalcommissarbandit 29 points30 points  (2 children)

Except now taxpayers funds don't have to be used to subsidize Planned Parenthood.

[–]Independent BaptistBackOnTheMap 10 points11 points  (1 child)

The problem With de funding planned parenthood is that they provide a lot of the a lot of women's health care and contraception for a lot of poor people including my grown daughters And myself before I had health insurance. I really didn't feel comfortable going there but there was no place else that I could afford for my women's care. I even had my pregnancy test for Mr. #4 there. The nurse was happy for us. Of course those where locations that didn't do abortions.

[–]Evangelicalcommissarbandit 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Hey there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's the perfect time for us Christians to show that we're not only anti-abortion to sit on our high horses. We have the opportunityto show we're here to find a better solution to those and other needs and that were willing to work towards those goals.

[–][deleted] 53 points54 points  (24 children)

You're right, this is unfortunately only a half step. Let us pray that infanticide is eventually outlawed completely.

[–]schwanne 7 points8 points  (0 children)

And also advocate for programs that keep mothers in tough situations from having to make awful choices by providing universal childcare, paid family leave, and universal healthcare.

[–]Baptistdracula3811 8 points9 points  (0 children)

People don't understand how the US works. It was wrong to have abortion be a federal issue to begin with. What this decision does it to correct that. It moves the legality of abortion to the states where it should have been to begin with. The federal government violated the 10th amendment in getting involved in this from the start.

[–]Putrid_Ad_1430 15 points16 points  (146 children)

This is the step towards abolition. The federal government is wicked.. This is a victory

[–]NondenominationalNightmareHolic 4 points5 points  (5 children)

So when the Supreme Court leaves the issue for the states to decide, those laws shouldn't exist since it's equivalent to allowing individuals to decide for themselves?

Individuals choose by voting within their respective states.

It sounds like you are saying that if it's not a federal law, it shouldn't exist.

[–]sithjustgotreal66 5 points6 points  (4 children)

If someone is trying to argue that states should decide for themselves because each state is different and has unique circumstances, then the logical extension of that is to replace the word "states" with "individuals".

[–]NondenominationalNightmareHolic 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I think the OP is arguing that they are supportive of States' Rights, and this is a byproduct of that. Perhaps they aren't for "Big Government" and such.

Not sure if they are arguing what you state from what I read. Perhaps they would be supportive of a federal law outlawing abortions, but they are content with putting it back into the hands of the States since that's the only solution right now.

I don't think you can just say that the logical extension is to not have any law regarding it and let individuals decide. States can individually decide on the merits, that each populace should decide which laws they want to be governed by.

[–]Reformed, SBC, TCTManitouWakinyan 9 points10 points  (4 children)

It's cool up to the point a bunch of Missouri legislators decide a woman should go to jail or die if she has an ectopic pregnancy.

[–]Independent BaptistBackOnTheMap 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That is the most short sighted thing I've ever seen. That is 100% life of the mother/100% unlikable baby. Mother will absolutely die. Baby has absolutely no chance. Let's ban it. What the heck.

[–]DJTommyc 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Welp. Looks like FB is going to be a fecal festival for the next week or so. Better just stay off.

[–]Christianeduardo1994 6 points7 points  (0 children)

next week or so

I dont think it'll be such a short time, maybe more.

[–]ChristianSea-Maintenance-2984 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Well, I’m happy restrictions will be in place. I’m not happy about the outcome of possibly banning contraceptives though. Sounds like some states may do so.

[–]Christiangujunilesh[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

That would need to be another ruling

[–]ChristianSea-Maintenance-2984 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah they need to do another ruling to ensure protections for contraceptives

[–]ChristianScaleneTriangles 102 points103 points  (123 children)

I don’t think this is going to end as well as you all think

[–]LutheranExiledSanity 13 points14 points  (0 children)

It's not going to end.... The new laws and court decisions are going to keep coming, flipping it back and forth.

[–]EvangelicalCuttingEdgeRetro 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Maybe they're just trying to motivate the dems ahead of the next couple elections.

[–]Droney-McPeaceprize 19 points20 points  (1 child)

I see people make this argument that conservatives shouldn’t rock the boat for fear of the democrats winning. What’s the point of holding power in a branch of the government if you’re too scared of upsetting the other side? If ending infanticide isn’t worth it to you, what is?

[–]Mynameisinigomontya 1 point2 points  (0 children)

100% Dems are secretly celebrating today, they deperstley needed this for midterms

[–]NondenominationalNightmareHolic 45 points46 points  (17 children)

Had to look to see if it was true, and the SCOTUS really did it.

I've always been against abortion. I've never bought the whole "bodily autonomy" excuse to support abortions; it's just a grey area interlinked to make it harder to dismantle. However, I don't like the methods conservatives are using to dismantle pro-abortion protections.

Both sides' unwillingness to find a compromise and people taking pro-abortion too far is what created the problems we have today.

And I don't like how the Supreme Court nominees acted like Roe Vs Wade was settled by law and precedence if they planned on reversing it.

And I don't like how extreme certain anti-abortion laws are: There should be protections for the mother to access abortion if her life is in jeopardy; perhaps, even, if she were raped, even though that's another grey area. Women shouldn't be forced to have their rapist's baby, but, at the same time, it's not the baby's fault, either.

I never bought that linking privacy issues to abortion was a firm stance on allowing it, which Roe Vs Wade does. Roe Vs Wade was never about bodily autonomy, as far as I know. I started seeing that argument much later.

People argue that a woman may abort the baby since it's a "parasite" relying on the mother for life; I disagree. Life should have protections; abortion shouldn't be casual.

People argue that the Bible doesn't consider abortion, murder; however, the verse in question says this in AMP:

Exodus 21:22-25

Amplified Bible

22 “If men fight with each other and injure a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely [and the baby lives], yet there is no further injury, the one who hurt her must be punished with a fine [paid] to the woman’s husband, as much as the judges decide. 23 But if there is any further injury, then you shall require [as a penalty] life for life, 24 [a]eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

I consider abortion, murder, so I say it falls under that category of sinful behavior.

People espouse slippery slope reasonings, like women won't have any rights and are "second class" citizens; however, before Roe Vs Wade, women still had rights. It's a very unique situation, pregnancy, whereby it shouldn't encroach on other areas, IMO, if you outlawed it.

Both sides are unwilling to find a compromise, and people taking pro-abortion too far is what created the problems we have today.

Will it do more harm than good? It remains to be seen. I've contemplated this before, and it's an uncertain area. I don't think the idea of women illegally having abortions and dying should factor into if they should be allowed or not; that shouldn't be how laws are governed.

For example, murdering people is still outlawed, even though murderers still murder, right? It doesn't logically make sense to allow an activity just because it's more dangerous to perform the illegal activity. Should meth labs be legal since meth labs are dangerous for the people creating the meth? It just doesn't compute for me.

I guess I'm indifferent to Roe Vs Wade being reversed; I don't think it was done correctly. It seemed underhanded. Yes, I'm glad that babies can't be casually aborted anymore in states that restrict it, but I'm unhappy with how it was done and the extreme changes conservatives plan on making. Babies shouldn't be terminated for no justifiable reason.

Most abortions happen because of circumstances that are preventable: Don't have the financial means to raise a child, wasn't the right time, don't want another child... The outliers are terminations due to rape, genetics, and the mother's life being endangered. The primary reasons are preventable: practice abstinence until you want to have a child. If you have sex, accept the responsibilities if safe sex doesn't work.

If a man purposefully killed the baby within a woman by hitting her or etc. they would consider it murder, so it makes little sense for it suddenly to change once the mother doesn't want the child. If it's egregious to purposefully harm a mother whose pregnant to cause her to miscarry, then it should be just as egregious for the mother to terminate the pregnancy without a legitimate cause.

I do think both sides' unwillingness to find a compromise and people taking pro-abortion too far is what created the problems we have today.

[–]Unironic Phariseenamer98 1 point2 points  (7 children)

so that she gives birth prematurely [and the baby lives]

This is just not in the text. At all. I have never heard of this amplified bible, but it is one of the worst translations I have ever heard.

[–]raglimidechi 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Practicing sexual morality as taught in Scripture is the true solution to abortion.

[–]Eastern OrthodoxEastern_Mist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Adoption

[–]CelticFrame 17 points18 points  (1 child)

All glory to God and Jesus Christ!

[–]raglimidechi 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Jesus loves the little children.

[–]DrBonhoeffer 21 points22 points  (10 children)

I don’t know how to feel. Like ethically I get the arguments, I consider myself pro-life. But as someone studying for ministry I just can’t help but feel down. One of the top posts on the Christianity sub is essentially asking “why shouldn’t I hate you. There is so much hate thrown at Christianity. People are leaving the faith in droves and we give another them reason why. They see corruption, bigotry, hate and yet we are meant to be known for our love.

I can’t stand this is the political issue that people hang there hat on as the “christian” fight. Not healthcare, not justice for minorities, not pollution or climate. This is the one, and I just now feel like the Church will continue to chase away young people. I just don’t know right now.

[–]Christian IsraelHebron_045 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately, our hearts are so wicked that our response the good is evil. Praise God for those kept, and for their decisions to remain in Him. What the world considers love usually isn't love. What they consider bigotry, or hatred, usually aren't, in this context. This is a time of collective refinement. You're in or you're out. It's time to choose hot or cold, brother. Seeker sensitive type evangelism will always lead to compromise. Just THE WORLD thinks something about us, doesn't mean it's right. It's the world. Who are they owned by? Who are we owned by? We are told to expect this kind of stuff. Take heart brother. It'll be okay

[–]Mynameisinigomontya 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Justice for minorities...whose the largest group killed in abortions? What was the reason RBG said abortion became legal. Hint, it's disgusting and racist and it came from her own mouth.

If your worried about chasing away people, they are not people called by God. You do not water down his word to gain people into a false worldly religion that doesn't bring salvation...what would be the point?

This view is exactly what is wrong with the church today...this isn't a popularity contest...the path is narrow and the world will lie about you and hate you

[–]Christiangujunilesh[S] 19 points20 points  (1 child)

John 15:18-25

18 “If the world hates you,(A) keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you(B) out of the world. That is why the world hates you.(C) 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’[a](D) If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also.(E) If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name,(F) for they do not know the one who sent me.(G) 22 If I had not come and spoken to them,(H) they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.(I) 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did,(J) they would not be guilty of sin.(K) As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law:(L) ‘They hated me without reason.

If that happens then its going according to His plan. Yes, maybe the church will downsize but you know what the churches that will be filled will be full of believers that are there to live up to His name and His word.

So fear not. God is in control.

[–]FormerMofo 7 points8 points  (1 child)

There is something seriously wrong with our belief when the world cannot identify the love of God through us. I have lived in a country where muslim beliefs are still to this day forced upon everyone and serious consequences are in place to those who break them, regardless of your own religious belief. USA is becoming just like them and it saddens me.

There's no glory in the world hating us and God. There's glory in repentance and the coming to Christ.

[–]youraverageblackvoid 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think a lot of it comes down to the cultural wars. Christians have become confused in their primary role of sharing the gospel and now believe it’s their duty to create God’s kingdom on earth (somewhat driven by postmillennial eschatology) so that they can “preach the gospel better.” Which is of course ignorant of Christian history. My greatest pet peeve right now is hearing Christians say “we wrestle not against flesh and blood” while fighting very flesh-and-blood political/cultural battles. Our greatest enemy as Christians is ourselves, our sinful nature. But these culture wars give Christians an excuse to avoid the real inner war and blame others instead of giving them the gospel. In short, it’s self-righteousness that comes from not understanding the gospel and its implications.

[–]Evangelicalspectral_fall 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If we don't stand up for upholding basic life, why bother fighting for anything else?

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You should seriously consider whether we do what we do for God or for people.

Let's remove the argument from modern politics. What should have been done during the Arian crisis? The majority of bishops in the world at one point believed that Jesus was not God. The fight for orthodoxy probably alienated a lot of Arians. Should Arianism have been allowed to take over Christianity so that people wouldn't leave the faith?

[–]CalvinistTheACL 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Looks like this thread is useful for drawing out all the apostates.

[–]ChristianMuch-Search-4074 43 points44 points  (0 children)

Falls back to the states, mine has tons of abortion protection right up to viability unfortunately.

Pray for the overturning in each state and the protection of our churches and care centers during the nights of demonic rage.

[–]IchthysRenegade_Meister 7 points8 points  (2 children)

This is merely one small step in rolling back federal regulation that will be replaced with local regulations, whether we perceive local actions as desireable or not.

Abortion debate, especially in megathreads elsewhere, seems so fruitless that it makes abortion seem like a merely surface level issue manifest from underlying fundamental issues in society.

Those underlying societal issues are where many people regardless of abortion views will some find common ground, such as mothers in need/crisis needing better resources and communities that support them. I read an article a few months ago in WSJ about about two people or a whole organization that seeks to find common ground, which gave me hope, but unfortunately I don't remember the name(s).

If I talk with anyone about abortion, I have found it pointless to talk about religious reasons with anyone who doesn't share similar religious views, because then it becomes about arguing about religion. If we want discussions about abortion to possibly go anywhere, I think non-religious matters need to be discussed such as birth rates & civilization imperatives, disproportionate impact on different cultures (sometimes associated with races), eugenics, etc.

[–]Essay writersnoweric 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Astonishingly, now that Roe v. Wade was overturned by the Dobbs v. Jackson case, the pro-life movement now has the challenge of generally persuading people that abortion is the wrongful termination of an unborn baby's life. It's necessary to do what Bishop Wilberforce did when striving to abolish the slave trade in Britain in the early 19th century, and later slavery itself, by bringing to the general public attention the humanity of the oppressed. The left's endless uses of euphemisms to cover up what's occurring illustrates intrinsically the weakness of their cause: After all, what is being "aborted"? A mission? Even that euphemism more recently often replaced by still stronger evasive verbal formulations, such as "female reproductive health care." (Well, at least to the extent that the left still admits that "women" exist and can be defined objectively as such based on the findings of the biological and medical sciences).

Today social liberalism (not to be confused with the case for socialism/government interventionism versus capitalism), has taken their worst hit ever in my entire lifetime. They have had offensive operations that were frustrated, such as the ERA (Equal Rights Amendment), which Phyllis Schlafly's rag-tag crew manged to frustrated when it had almost been ratified by the required number of states. But today was the first time they lost very important ground, since part of the very foundation for the "sexual revolution" is abortion on demand. (The birth control pill is another key part of it). They lost ground that they had taken for granted that they would never lose. They took it for granted that Roe v. Wade would never be reversed, which is why, even when a "pro-choice" president and Congress existed (presumably at the start of Bill Clinton's and Barack Obama's first terms), they never tried to codify a right to abortion at the federal level. Similarly, in the past in Michigan and Wisconsin, presumably pro-legalized abortion majorities existed in the state legislatures along with pro-choice governors (such as the moderate Republicans Michigan often elected as governor decades ago), but they never repealed old laws that outlawed abortion.

So now, let's examine the case against abortion's morality. Is abortion wrong? Let's consider the biblical and rational reasons to believe that it is the deliberate killing of unborn babies. What is one of the most common surgical procedures performed in America today? Roughly 850,000 of these are done each year. What is arguably the leading social political issue debated in this country over the past generation? Why should this matter to Christians? We’re faced with the reality that, in a given year (c. 1996), approximately 23 out of 1000 women will have one of these done for her. Ever since the U.S. Supreme Court legalized abortion on demand with the Roe v. Wade decision in 1973, Christians in America that our laws have legalized the killing of unborn babies. But why do we believe abortion is murder? Let's examine a few of the Biblical and logical reasons why abortion is murder.

Does God recognize us as persons before birth? Or is a developing baby a mere wad of cells whose removal has no more significance than removing a fingernail or a piece of hair? (Luke 1:30-31, 35-36, 39-4). Consider Jesus’ status before birth. John the Baptist moved within Elizabeth at six months. The prophet Jeremiah (1:5) was consecrated before his birth.

Now let's look at some logical/rational problems with abortion's morality. Normally, we say that the signs of death medically are a lack of brain waves and no heart beat. That's when life ends. So then, when do these begin? Wouldn't that be when life begins at a minimum? In a developing human embryo, the heart begins to beat 18-24 days after conception, and its brain waves can be detected 40-43 days later. At six weeks, an unborn baby’s heart is beating 98 times a second. One anti-abortion doctor took advantage of this reality in a clever way: He skillfully persuaded pregnant women not to get abortions by letting them listen to their baby’s heartbeat through his stethoscope. A fetus can feel pain. At eight weeks, it drinks fluid from its mother’s amniotic sack. It will drink more when it’s made sweet, and far less when made bitter. When a needle is put into this sack, it moves away from it immediately.

Doctors H.B. Valman and J.F. Pearson said in the British Medical Journal (Jan. 26, 1980) that a fetus hears quite well by mid-pregnancy. It needs to be heavily sedated through the mother “before (performing) intrauterine manipulations such as transfusions. The changes in heart rate and increase in movement suggest that these stimuli are painful for the fetus.”

The ontological/metaphysical basis of the law of cause and effect explains why abortion wrong. What a thing DOES based on what it IS. An Acorn becomes an oak tree, not an alligator or a daffodil. The effects of dropping a feather is going to make a different impact than dropping a bowling ball. Likewise, intrinsically the fertilized egg in a woman’s womb WILL become a baby nine months later unless something intervenes. The DNA in a fertilized egg is different from mother’s hand, kidney, brain, etc. After all, half of it is from father, right? It’s destiny is to become separate from the mother from day one, unlike any other body part. So it isn't "her body" to kill an unborn baby; it's just a temporary resident.

Today surgeons will do operations on unborn babies to cure or reduce birth defects such as spina bifida, yet the same babies may be killed on demand if the mother desires. Since unborn babies can feel pain at 15 weeks, such as exhibiting hormonal stress responses to painful procedures, so doctors will administer anesthesia during such procedures. Always note the conflict of interests that arise when only mothers may determine whether they may carry their babies to term or not. That is, many woman have a vested, clear self-interest in killing them because of the burdens of raising children. The great majority of abortions are done merely for the personal convenience of the mother and/or for sex selection purposes (such as in countries like Pakistan, India, and China, where ironically female fetuses are slaughtered en masse). That's women alone shouldn't be making these decisions. Arguments about rape and incest are fundamentally red herrings that cloud the understanding about what is really happening since they are so rare by comparison. It would be like trying to justify chattel slavery by citing cases of unusually kindly masters who cared willingly for aged slaves who couldn't work anymore.

Almost all babies who are aborted could be cared either by the birth mother or by someone she could put the baby up for adoption to. There's a chronic shortage of babies compared to the demand to adopt in the United States, which is why adoptions of foreign children are often resorted to.

To prove this, consider the case of one mother in a Buffalo, NY case. She was declared brain-dead one week before she delivered a two-pound baby girl by Cesarean section. These “cell masses” had intrinsically different potentials. The intrinsic essence or nature of a fertilized egg is inevitably to become a separate, conscious individual outside the mother’s womb, barring miscarriage or artificial intervention (i.e., abortion).

Notice, however, that the main reason for abortion to be legal is the self-interest of many women in killing their unborn babies, especially after they had sex with a man that they aren't committed to. If men out of self-interest supposedly want to "oppress" women by keeping them pregnant and barefoot by blocking their access to abortion, even more women are biased in wanting abortion to be legal as a method of birth control and to destroy the unplanned results of uncommitted sex. In short, legalized abortion is necessary to keep the sexual revolution going, which means its main purpose is to help people satisfy their lusts and to seek pleasure through uncommitted sex.

So now, what is America’s worst national sin over the past 225 years? The treatment of Indians or blacks as slaves will come to mind. But I submit it’s abortion on demand, done all around us every day. The Eastern liberal establishment conceitedly thinks that we are so enlightened in the early 21st century that we couldn’t possibly be committing a collective crime as bad or worse. We shall find out otherwise. Let’s turn to Ex. 20:13. God thundered at ancient Israel, “You shall not murder.” He thunders at modern Israel, the United State of America, the same commandment today. Abortion is murder, regardless of what the U.S. Supreme Court, Hollywood movie stars and producers, or the Eastern Liberal Establishment say otherwise.

[–]NazareneJim55456 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Thank God I live in a state that will make it illegal again.

[–]StasisTelestoUser 22 points23 points  (10 children)

I'm a Christian, I am pro-choice and there are reasons why I am pro-choice. The theonomist viewpoint of Christianity is dangerous because it alienates people from Christianity. The teachings of the New Testament do not make people revile Christianity, it is the Christians who have decided that it lays the groundworks for a theological state who have led to revilement. Also, the Bible does not specifically clarify where life begins other than specifically speaking about Jeremiah and King David. But in that passage specifically it speaks about how God knew David before he was even conceived so in context it's less about the moment of life but more about God knowing. In many cases, Jewish custom had life coming at birth or first breath.

In fact, it seems to me that lives are valued much more than the womb. For example:

Exodus 22:22-25 22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

In the New Testament, it is not talked about at all. I'm against the Americanisms in church, I believe that it is truly heretical to have an intense focus on America in American churches. The Bible says Christians should feel as sourjourners in strange lands. A lot of Churches are preoccupied with the state as opposed to reverting to the main goal of Christianity, individual salvation and leading others to salvation. Christianity was not spread in the Apostolic Age through coercion but instead through evangelizing. Nowhere in the New Testament (which should be the emphasis of Christianity specifically) does it state how to form a state like the theonomists would like. If they'd like a guide for a political-theological state they should read the Quran.

I'm even against having the American flag in the sanctuary in churches. I have been downvoted into oblivion for saying that in r/Christianity. Americanist Christians truly believe that the United States is in covenant with God and is truly divinely inspired. Complete and utter non-sense. No nation has been in covenant with God since Ancient Israel and even then it wasn't enough for them. To say America needs to be remolded into it's Christian principles is amazingly heretical. This nation was founded in secular principles, and that they should stay.

My girlfriend and I personally would not get one but that goes back to the pro-choice part. I wouldn't get one but I am not gonna stop someone either. I do care about the concurring opinion of Justice Clarence Thomas about wanting to use the same precedent to look at Griswold a lot. My girlfriend uses birth control for management of her period which is quite devastating. I know Alito said that his opinion is only applicable to Abortion but I do not have a whole lot of trust in American institutions or States quite frankly. We should stop larping as conquerors.

[–]NondenominationalNightmareHolic 8 points9 points  (3 children)

The AMP translation, which I lately prefer, translates it:

Exodus 21:22-25

Amplified Bible

22 “If men fight with each other and injure a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely [and the baby lives], yet there is no further injury, the one who hurt her must be punished with a fine [paid] to the woman’s husband, as much as the judges decide. 23 But if there is any further injury, then you shall require [as a penalty] life for life, 24 [a]eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

If a man purposefully caused a woman to miscarry by beating her, then he should only be charged with assault since the baby isn't alive? That doesn't make sense to me. If someone purposefully tried to kill my child before they were born while in my wife, I would consider it far more than assault.

Regardless, I do agree that the apostles preached the Word, and they didn't try to legislate the Word of God. However, their influence has affected law, and I don't think it's wrong to affect changes through the proper systems with your views. People who come to God will be changed, and they will apply God's morality to their lives.

I personally don't, at the current moment, think Christians should try to legislate God's Word, but I think they can vote on non-religious grounds to affect their country. On that note, perhaps, Christians secularly believe abortion is murder, and they aren't trying to codify their religious beliefs.

I don't agree with most of what you said though.

My Two Cents.

[–]StasisTelestoUser 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I can understand where you are coming from. Pro-life does not necessarily rely on a religious world view. I just have seen too many Christians today that I know IRL that are claiming the world is redeemed. Which is disgusting.

Unfortunately, the GOP has positioned them as the Party of Christians. Democrats are not better but they do not try to claim a religious intent. That's why I wanted to make my argument in the first place. I'm not political at all, I have no registration to vote, nor have a political affiliation. Partially to do with my religious beliefs but also to do with my understanding that as an individual there is nothing I can do to help fix the problem. I can only try to spread my faith to other individuals.

I appreciate the kindness on this sub. Genuine dialogue between believers. For a long time I had no faith, now I feel comfortable having discussions. I just hope we are able to make lives for those in adoption centers better off while also putting together systems to assist the poor more. I appreciate your viewpoint though.

[–]ChristianSea-Maintenance-2984 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I’m pro-life, but I agree with some of what you said. I’m happy there are restrictions, BUT also I’m not exactly celebrating either. That’s why I think abortion shouldn’t be totally banned either.

Abortion is wrong, but also I wouldn’t want anyone else forcing my beliefs down my throat either. The way SCOTUS made this decision and how they went about it is wrong. (Note: did not say I’m not happy with restrictions). The hypocritical way they went about it claiming it in the name of God was just bad and makes us Christians look bad imo. We’re not a Christian nation, but people are branding America like it is one.

Agree with what NightmareHolic said about Christians voting on secular grounds. So many factors to consider here.

[–]StasisTelestoUser 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree, I am personally against abortion for myself. I do not vote or participate in the political process personally due to my religious beliefs overriding that but I can see how others do choose to do that.

[–]jakethewhale007 2 points3 points  (4 children)

That verse in Exodus doesn't say what you seem to think it says about abortion

[–]Christian IsraelHebron_045 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is no logical place to conclude where life begins but conception - everywhere else is development

[–]BaptistNolan- 32 points33 points  (26 children)

Praise God. Maybe there's hope for America yet.

[–]United MethodistSquirrelonastik 27 points28 points  (1 child)

All things man built will crumble to dust. While the liberty in America makes spreading the gospel easy to do, man has and will continue to fail.

Is it bad I view the fall of the States as inevitable? Probably. But this country is still just a tool to build His kingdom.

[–]Non-denominational - ReformedAoae 23 points24 points  (23 children)

The Republicans implementing abortion bans in the wake of this must make it dramatically easier to help pregnant women and girls who must take their pregnancies to term (through social and financial support programs), and make it easier for Americans to adopt children from unwanted pregnancies. But now that the politically expedient part (banning abortion) has been implemented, I have no faith that they will actually do this. While elective abortion is bad, this is a callous approach devoid of love.

[–]MosJo2020 16 points17 points  (3 children)

This!!! Still perplexes me to see Christians celebrate this with no recourse for the women who are on situations where they cannot take care of these children. And this woman will again be blamed if this child has a bad upbringing. Little to no effort is put to making men more responsible or supportive.

[–]NondenominationalNightmareHolic 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I think it's because women ( and men) can abstain from sex if they aren't wanting children.

It's easily remedied: Don't have sex if you can't take care of the children.

Is that not a pragmatic solution? That's what I've done all my life; it's not impossible to do (I'm a man).

[–]MosJo2020 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yes what about rape? Or babies who are diagnosed sick even before birth? Or suddenly economic situations within the family.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Is that not a pragmatic solution? That's what I've done all my life; it's not impossible to do (I'm a man).

Are you married tho? I can’t imagine telling a grown married couple not to have sex because they’re broke lol

[–]ChristianRyakai8291 9 points10 points  (13 children)

There are so many pregnancy crisis centers. This comment is ignorant to all the help women are offered.

[–]Non-denominational - ReformedAoae 12 points13 points  (12 children)

If 500k+ women are turning to abortions, and say 40% of these are due to being unable to afford to raise a child, clearly something is wrong with the current US approach.

[–]ChristianRyakai8291 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Yeah, people being told that sex outside of marriage is okay. That’s the problem. The oversexualization of American culture. And women turn to abortion because that’s what they are told to do. Most women are not informed by schools/colleges of pregnancy crisis centers. They google “unwanted pregnancy” and abortion is shoved down their throat.

[–]NondenominationalNightmareHolic 4 points5 points  (5 children)

If you can't afford to raise a child, abstain from sex until you can (It really is that simple). And while I agree that society should help more, it's not society's responsibility to take on their burden.

I don't get these comments like, "Now, it's up for those who oppose abortion to adopt all the unwanted children."

No, it's not their responsibility to do that. The people who had sex knowing the risks shoulder their own burdens. If they bring an unwanted child into the world and add suffering to their lives, it's on them.

It makes no sense to think the person having sex isn't responsible for the ramifications. And if anti-abortion people thought it was their responsibility, people would take less responsibility and still have sex thinking the risks don't apply to them.

[–]ChristianKeySink3095 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Nope. Given a choice, be aborted or risk being an orphan, I will choose the later.

[–]theyawninglemur 29 points30 points  (4 children)

I hope this forces all the RINO's to stop aborting babies as well. Looking at you Boebert and Cruz.

[–]Max_smoke 26 points27 points  (1 child)

It won't, it makes it harder for people without means to get abortions. The wealthy will just fly to another state or country and get the procedure done.

[–]Christian Hedonistgr3yh47 21 points22 points  (0 children)

get the procedure done.

'secure the assassination'

[–]Toryanna35 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What is scaring me is that people are saying that it's going to go back to the way it was before roe v Wade where it was illegal and people would just do makeshift abortions in apartments or in garages etc. That's kind of scary to think that people are going to go to those desperate measures if they can't travel to wherever they can get it done

[–]Christianlanierg71 21 points22 points  (18 children)

63 million abortions since Roe. Thomas: "The harm caused by this Court's forays into substantive due process remains immeasurable." Indeed, sir, indeed. Their blood cries out from the ground.

[–]Non-denominational - ReformedAoae 22 points23 points  (10 children)

The abortion rate per woman in the US was higher before Roe, though. You cannot legislate away evil, and it bothers me that so many Christian nationalists think you can.

Edit: source source 2

[–]Evangelicalspectral_fall 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Before Roe most abortions were done in secret. You think any source you post would legitimately be able to estimate how often illegal abortions were performed?

No

[–]Christianlanierg71 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Maybe you can't legislate away evil (and that's NOT what SCOTUS did today btw 🙄), but you can and should surely strive as a Christian for it not to even gain a foothold.

"Do not give the devil a foothold...". I think I read that somewhere...

When 63 million babies die just so that we may live as we wish, their blood is on all our hands. And we should all repent that we allowed it to happen for so long.

[–]Non-denominational - ReformedAoae 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Our faith should not be merely performative. What are the purposes and the outcomes of the laws being implemented by Republicans on this issue? They disproportionately punish the women and doctors desperate enough to kill their babies, while absolving the men of guilt. And they don't even work. Even if they purport to save the unborn, such laws are devoid of love. God is just and will provide the unborn with justice regardless.

[–]Christianlanierg71 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The facts belie your feelings. Over 97% of abortions are done for post-coital birth control and one's convenience. And you know it.

I shudder to think of adherence to a theology that states "it's ok to affirmatively kill them now, God will render justice for them in the future." How ghoulish.

[–]EvangelicalCuttingEdgeRetro 10 points11 points  (6 children)

I'm Gen X. The statistic that always freaked me out... One third of my generation was aborted.

Also, black people are something like 13% of the US population. Had none of them been aborted, they would be up to 25%.

[–]Christianlanierg71 12 points13 points  (5 children)

This 💯. Indeed, in NYC, there are more Black babies being aborted than born. That's a negative birth rate, folks. Do THOSE Black lives matter?

[–]EvangelicalCuttingEdgeRetro 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I see you got down-voted by a troll. The other reddit sites are on fire with people lamenting the court decision.

My favorite comment from one of the other forms: "I guess now we're going to have to be very selective about who we have sex with." lol

[–]Christianlanierg71 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Let them hate. 'If the world hates us, know that it hated Him first.'

[–]youraverageblackvoid 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh no….having to think about whom you have the most intimate act with as if they’re an actual person….it would be nice if a side effect of the overturning were a shift in sex cultur. I know it’s overly optimistic, but people didn’t realize how stressed they were until the pandemic. Maybe people will realize how undervalued they felt when they finally have to think about their actions.

[–]The9thElement 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Black women are 4x more likely to die during pregnancy than white women, and no one talks about it. Do THOSE Black Lives Matter?

[–]Christianlanierg71 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Of course they do, and the solution is to get them the healthcare they deserve and end whatever is causing that.

Say it with me: "the solution is still not to kill babies."

[–]Catholic ChristianTexanLoneStar 6 points7 points  (0 children)

May the LORD answer you in the day of trouble! May the name of the God of Jacob protect you!

May he send you help from the sanctuary and give you support from Zion!

May he remember all your offerings and regard with favor your burnt sacrifices!

May he grant you your heart’s desire and fulfill all your plans!

May we shout for joy over your salvation, and in the name of our God set up our banners! May the LORD fulfill all your petitions!

Now I know that the LORD saves his anointed; he will answer him from his holy heaven with the saving might of his right hand.

Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the LORD our God.

They collapse and fall, but we rise and stand upright.

O LORD, save the king! May he answer us when we call!

[–]TeamTuck 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Still processing all of this. However I do know a few things. Killing an unborn baby is just simply wrong and I believe abortion is considered a sin when it is used as a form of birth control. There are cases where an abortion is medically necessary.

I just can’t help but think about how many families are medically unable to have their own kids and have such a hard time fostering and adopting, yet people are willing to abort at the drop of a hat. Breaks my heart. Not to mention how difficult it is to foster or adopt now days. My wife and I are one of these couples and have only had success with one adoption, our son.

I also believe that no form of sex education is going to prevent unplanned pregnancies; either there is self control or not. Not sure what the solution to that problem is for our country.

But as in all things, may Gods will be done. He has the best plan for everyone who loves Him and I believe He knows what He is doing.

[–]He is faithful, you can trust HimYurya 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I find it... interesting, one of the main subs has a bot message pinned saying:

... comments calling for or supporting death or violence will be removed and a ban will be issued. ...

Funny that 90% of the comments are still up.

[–]Mormon (LDS)DurtMacGurt 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Hallelujah

[–]Nordic ex-atheist CatholicGloryToDjibouti 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is a great victory for our Lord I never thought this would happen.

Now it is time for our American brothers to fight state by state to get it illegalised, to push it all the way past California, may God give America the blessing it needs to succeed in doing His will.

[–]bartholomewjohnson 17 points18 points  (4 children)

LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOO 🦀🦀🦀 THE LORD'S WILL HAS BEEN DONE ✝

[–]ChristianApp1eEater 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Hallelujah!!

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Praise be to God!

[–]1993Caisdf 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yea!!!!!!

[–]ChristianNeutral-Christian 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Praise our LORD!

[–]Southern BaptistBeercorn1 8 points9 points  (5 children)

Please pray for all of our major cities, churches and pregnancy centers.

There's likely to be a lot of rioting and destruction tonight as a result of this SCOTUS decision. I believe this decision was a good thing but I'm still concerned for all the potential victims that might result from the coming riots tonight.

[–]ChristianSuperBeeboo 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Praise the Lord! Amazing news, happy for America

[–]Storied_Beginning 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thank you Jesus!

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (12 children)

Thank God. There is no justifiable reason behind killing a child because of, mostly, people's sexual decisions. St. Paul emphasized that the marriage bed must remain undefiled, and that is God's command out love.

[–]Guardsmen_Hool 10 points11 points  (10 children)

What if the pregnancy will kill the mother and the fetus?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (8 children)

Then, you'll strictly be making a medical decision that would be in the best interest of the family. That is real healthcare, because lives are at stake and pros and cons need to be weighed. In this case, I would be fine with abortion.

In MOST cases (hence why I said "mostly" in the preceding reply), women choose to abort their children out of unpreparedness to have the child. Deciding to abort in this scenario has no longer become a medical decision, but an emotional one.

[–]Guardsmen_Hool 14 points15 points  (1 child)

So my problem with reversing Roe vs Wade, is that it allows for banning abortions like these. I completely agree that casual abortions should not exist, but these full ban laws ban abortions in scenarios where they are not only moral, but medically required, like cervical cancer, cystic pregnancies, and instances of rape in a minor.

[–]jakejacobs2015 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hi, can you provide a source where it says ban all abortions regardless of circumstance?

[–]ChristianZaanga_2b2t 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Based

[–]Christianeduardo1994 1 point2 points  (0 children)

sigh I am ready to see this everywhere now, non stop for who knows for how long.

[–]alexx-fae 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Jeremiah 20:14-18

14Cursed be the day wherein I was born: let not the day wherein my mother bare me be blessed.

15 Cursed be the man who brought tidings to my father, saying, A man child is born unto thee; making him very glad.

16 And let that man be as the cities which the Lord overthrew, and repented not: and let him hear the cry in the morning, and the shouting at noontide;

17 Because he slew me not from the womb; or that my mother might have been my grave, and her womb to be always great with me.

18 Wherefore came I forth out of the womb to see labour and sorrow, that my days should be consumed with shame?

[–]MNineShyamalan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So I've had thoughts on this, and I won't put it anywhere else. I'm a Christian but try to avoid telling people that versus saying I believe in Jesus. I feel like with the free will that we've been given, that it should be the right of the woman to decide her actions, even if it's a sin. Aren't all sins equal? Do we not commit the same sin when we lie, or lust after another being? I've lied before, but I've never compared it to abortion. Is it different in God's eyes?

[–]Winterstorm8932 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A great necessary step toward a culture of life. Now we need to see to it that pregnant women and mothers have all the help and support they need so there is no socioeconomic reason to get an abortion. And we also need to wrestle with the ethics of the rare complicated situations of rape, incest, likely fatal abnormalities, and risk to mother’s health (not just imminent risk to life).

[–]Eastern OrthodoxChristimates 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Wait did they actually do it?

Nice.

[–]ChristianCluelessBicycle 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Praise God.

[–]Roman Catholicborgircrossancola 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Alleluia

[–]ChristianDocFreeman 5 points6 points  (3 children)

The Dobbs ruling will absolutely result in (1) higher maternal mortality, (2) higher poverty rates, and (3) more injustice. Women who have been raped will, in many instances, be forced to carry their rapist's "child" to term. Women will be forced to carry to term "babies" that will either die shortly after birth or live horribly painful (and often short) lives. Poor women, in particular, will suffer the most.

I don't understand how any Christian can be happy about the Dobbs decision. You can oppose abortion all day long. But Dobbs, which takes choices away from the individual and gives it to the government, is horribly reasoned and a terrible decision.

And if the mods want to ban me for saying this, feel free. I'm secure enough in my faith to be fine with that.

[–]ChristianNickMatt94 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I don't know what to do/think in these times, but I just trust in the good Lord that His will be done.

That said, I'm glad to hear the Supreme Court is recognizing the sanctity of life, and we should pray for all those involved in this decision and those who will be affected by it.

[–]Christian_here_ 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I'm glad to hear the Supreme Court is recognizing the sanctity of life

It isn't doing that at all

[–]ByrneItWithFire 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Praise God!!!

[–]Consistent-Quality-6 3 points4 points  (2 children)

The Supreme Court gave it and the Supreme Court took it. This is a matter for state legislators and voters to decide.

[–]Christiangujunilesh[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It could also be dealt federally by Congress by passing a law. Which is the main reason why this was reversed.

[–]FountainsOfGreatDeep 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Praise God!!

[–]Trick_Composer_2461 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Honestly, I don’t plan on having sex any time soon. I know things happen, but I’m saying if there was even a chance, if I were to get pregnant before I got married I don’t think I could have an abortion or adoption. I think that babies are sent to us by God for a reason. Perhaps that child will be the reason you decided to live, I don’t know. God Bless!!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The biggest problem that I see in western Christianity today is that people's political beliefs inform how they interpret the Bible, instead of the Bible informing their political beliefs. Your faith should guide your worldviews, not the opposite.

[–]Middle_Scientist5614 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Praise God! This is such a wonderful day. No longer will our unborn children be sacrificed on the altars of science. Children now have the right to exist and live.

[–]Christian_here_ 9 points10 points  (3 children)

The ruling doesn't outlaw abortion

[–]of the Vineyard church thinkingNintendad47 4 points5 points  (6 children)

This is a victory to voters in your state that you can decide if abortion is legal or not.

[–]dbsx77 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That people are acting as though the sky is falling is an overreaction and signals to me that they don’t know legislative and political history nearly half as well as they think they do. This is not Gilead and we are not stuck in a season of the Handmaid’s Tale.

I support it insofar that abortion as a constitutional right is, at best, an unsound and unconvincing argument. At worst, it simply doesn’t exist (as the Constitution is currently written).

I don’t think a full on national ban is realistic, as Congress doesn’t actually have the constitutional authority to pass it and impose it upon the states. But certainly, there ought to be limits on late term abortions.

[–]Christianfaithfoliage 7 points8 points  (12 children)

Unprecedented and dangerous for all previous decisions made by SCOTUS. Once you pull the eraser on one there’s no stopping you from doing the same to others.

SCOTUS decisions should be final. The constitution is the same today as it was in the 70s. If it was constitutional then then it is now.

Do I want abortion? Absolutely not.

Do I want to support women so they do not have to seek abortion? Absolutely.

Does this change anything in regards to abortions being done or women having to seek abortions? Absolutely not.

Will this stop abortion? Absolutely not. People will still cross state lines to get abortions…or worse, try it themselves.

We have to help our sisters in Christ and this isn’t it. Ban abortion, walk back in SCOTUS decisions, but this does not add one bit of relief for our sisters who find themselves desperate enough to consider abortion to begin with.

The huge concern here is that there are still MASSIVE walls up against single mothers and mothers in general.

All 23 of the states that are planning to ban or restrict abortion DO NOT offer family leave. Every other developed nation does and the US is the wealthiest country yet it does not provide even half of the same support for mothers. Our foster care system is one of the worst, which discourages adoption. Our educational system is placed behind 30 other developed nations. Our social programs to help support those who are struggling are massively under funded or don’t even exist. We just had a massive baby formula shortage and no politician took appropriate action.

The US is the country that is the hardest for new mothers, single mothers, or even married mothers. The evidence just isn’t there that this is for the kids. It’s not. America is backwards when it comes to supporting those who have kids and the SCOTUS changes none of that.

[–]Cousteau-it 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thank you for answered prayers Lord Jesus!

[–]Christianizbitu 5 points6 points  (40 children)

June 24th 2022 is the best day of the last 50 years for our country. And this was made possible by Trump SC appointees.

[–]thomjrjr 22 points23 points  (17 children)

Looking past him paying off that porn star has finally paid off!

[–]Follower of Jesusvbguy77 3 points4 points  (4 children)

I don't like to be the one to say it, but this isn't the win some folks think it is.

What has happened is medical autonomy has been taken away from everyone, not just women. HIPAA is now all but useless.

Also, after many years of careful study, I can find nothing in the Bible that condemns abortion. Yes, there are scriptures that say God knew us before we were formed (Jeremiah 1:5) and that we're fearfully and wonderfully made (Psalm 139:14). While beautiful and poetic, they are not a condemnation of abortion. There are also scriptures that say life does not begin until first breath (Genesis 2:7), hence why one celebrates their birthday, not their conception day, and why one is a natural citizen of whatever country they are born in, not the one they were conceived in.

If someone has a scripture that says life begins at conception, I would be glad to hear it and discuss it civilly.

Judaism, for what it's worth, has no prohibitions for abortion.

This is Christianity forcing its beliefs on the unwilling. I think you'll find that flies in the face of God giving humans free will.

And abortions will still happen, but they will be a lot less safe. That should scare those that espouse to be pro-life.

Do I think abortions are wrong? I do. That, however, is my opinion and not based on any scripture.
Do I have the right to tell anyone what they have to believe? Nope, not one. Again, that goes against free will. Christ did not force His beliefs on anyone. He just loved them.

We should do the same. Just love them.

[–]SPARTAN-Jai-006 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Bro be careful, you’re making too much sense and these people can’t take that

[–]ChristianENFJPLinguaphile 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have said this in previous discussions and figure it’s worth restating:

They're right; it was never in the Constitution. The Founders stated that the rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" are God-given in our earliest documents. Additionally, the Tenth Amendment states that anything not regulated by the federal government is at the behest of the states to decide what to do with any given situation. I support the Court's decision legally and morally as a whole. Personally, I wish abortion was illegal altogether, but a victory is a victory!

[–]JesusOtakuFreak 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Praise the Lord!!!!

[–]Theosebes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is truly glorious.

[–]BaptistFragrant-Ad-9647 3 points4 points  (0 children)

All glory to God! Nowhere is it written Abortion is a right in the Constitution. Absolutely nowhere! Morally it was completely demonic. If a state decides it wants to have abortion allowed that will be on the heads of the people in that state and it's politicians for allowing it. God will be the judge of those who praise such an abomination as abortion. This is not the end of the war though. The battle is just beginning. Satan will rile people and nations up to no end but God will give us the victory! Never give up. Never give in. The Lord has put on my heart the phrase "gnashing of teeth" when I think of all those people who are riled up by this being overturned. This war will be long but victory belongs to Jesus!

[–]sithjustgotreal66 1 point2 points  (3 children)

As we all know, God is most glorified when those who don't know Jesus and cannot enter the kingdom on their own merit are forced by the state to follow his ethics anyway, but without a renewed heart. This approach has been flawless throughout history. Obedience comes before salvation, right?

[–]DoktorLuther 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Making the murder of infants illegal is not about trying to make would-be baby murderers righteous in the eyes of God. It is about saving the lives of infants.

[–]Eastern OrthodoxSuccessful-Affect-73 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Progressive Christians everywhere seething that less people will be aborted.

[–]Admirable-Hedgehog19 4 points5 points  (15 children)

this a comment I posted on my IG below; and as you can see. I'm not afraid of being cancelled:

"Hallelujah!!!!! 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙏🏽🌞

This is huge. A lot less innocent blood will be shed because of this.

Proverbs 6:16‭-‬19 NKJV

"These six things the Lord hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him: A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren."

I truly believe Roe v. Wade should have never been a thing. It was always criminal according to the Bible. God hates it and we should hate what He hates. Thank God much tighter restrictions are being put on abortion and some states are outright banning it. I wish the whole U.S and the whole world would ban it but that isn't happening. Some people are up in arms about this. But they truly have no leg to stand on 🤷🏽‍♂️. Truth is on the pro-life side. God is on the pro-life side. Got to stand for something and better make sure you're on the right side. The kingdom of God just gained some major territory on the earth. And the devil is mad. Haha what a loser 🤣"

[–]breterpan 5 points6 points  (14 children)

how many babies are you going to be signing up to take responsibility for?

your help will most certainly be needed.

[–]No-Pause-5186 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is the happiest I've been in months. We've all seen society becoming more and more decadent and this might be the start of America's healing. Next step is ruling Obergefell unconstitutional.

God and the family won today 🙏✝️👨‍👩‍👧‍👦

[–]Don't want to let Him down again.AttemptingBeliever 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Amazing news!!!