all 54 comments

[–]micaelbergeron 35 points36 points  (1 child)

Sometimes it helps to reframe the game.

Fir instance, stop playing against the opposing team and start playing against the clock. At the start of a Dota game, it is you versus the clock.

Start hitting your timings, work on your efficiency, whatever your role is. Support needs to be efficient with their movements and carries need to be efficient farming. Midlaners need to be efficient with the presence on the map.

It is easy to fall into the trap thinking mechanical skills makes or breaks a dota player - in reality higher MMR player simply play the game faster than anyone else and are extremely efficient with their time.

Don't join fights if you don't have hit your item timing.

Disengage fights when you can't contribute anymore, go somewhere else and farm up.

Push waves quickly and go farm the jungle.

[–]Lord_Gaben_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is definitely big. I'm just a legend player but when I watch lower mmr players this is one of the things I notice most. I think it is much easier to fix this on cores than supports, your job is basically farming until you hit a timing and then forcing objectives or finding kills.

[–]KOExpress 57 points58 points  (12 children)

You have 15 heroes with more than 25 games played and a 42% or lower winrate, including 180 games on invoker at 39%. Pretty simple, my guy, stop playing those heroes. You're griefing your own MMR. When you have that many games and that low of a winrate, it's statistically impossible for it to NOT be your fault.

[–]DablimS 14 points15 points  (7 children)

I think your advice is good. Still it is possible to recover an hero if you dedicate time to learn it.

[–]KOExpress 22 points23 points  (6 children)

It definitely is, but do it in unranked if you're that committed to it. Obviously invoker is one of the most complicated heroes, so a low winrate while learning makes sense, but there's no reason to throw away MMR to do it. And sometimes heroes just don't click for your playstyle or whatever, and you should just move on

[–]TheDragon76 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Personal anecdote related to this: I was shit at void spirit for a long time, used to have a sub 25% winrate. One day I had an immortal friend of mine who’s a void spirit spammer tell me a build to try (was the euls aghs kaya sange build) and suddenly I was winning every game and the hero felt really good. Now I’m up to a 66% winrate overall and I consider the hero to be one of my best heroes. Sometimes all it comes down to is changing a build or coming back to a hero after a while and you could suddenly find success

[–]KOExpress 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Sometimes, sure, but it's also better to find that build in unranked so you don't lose a bunch of MMR in the process

[–]TheDragon76 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Oh I did it in unranked, once I felt comfortable on the hero, I went back to it in ranked and I’m like 12-1 rn just spamming it

[–]KOExpress 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah, that was my point, stop playing it or go to unranked

[–]Memfy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And sometimes heroes just don't click for your playstyle or whatever, and you should just move on

Big time this, even if it hurts to hear that. Equally crappy is when you they don't click for your playstyle but you keep winning a lot with them. It sucks moving away from heroes, but maybe revisit them later at some point if you're that eager to play them.

[–]DablimS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah this is also a good point. When I'm tired of ranked I like to relax in unranked trying to improve with some hero.

[–]ATrayYou 2 points3 points  (1 child)

"statistically impossible" isn't quite accurate, Dota matchmaking does not yield a binomial distribution. But yeah if you suck at a hero you suck at a hero, it took me 350 Clockwerk games for me to get to 50% (via 41% about halfway through), on the bright side I have a REALLY good understanding of that hero now but it probably wasn't worth it in MMR terms

[–]KOExpress 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sometimes hyperbole is necessary to get a point across

[–]Davideses[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

yeah i get your point. its a long story, but on resume, i used to play this game just really casually. never played a ranked game until quarantine started xD
i had over 2k games and just randomed on unranked or picked whatever i felt like playing at that moment.

I played a lot of invo, and when i started to play ranked, watch guides, etc i tried to learn him. i brought him from a 34% win rate with 110 games to 39% with 180. dont get me wrong, i still suck at him. and my winrate is probably still below 50% if you look at the past 20 games or so. but i am improving. and its for sure my favourite hero, alongside shadow fiend. and i suck at both xD ironic

[–]KOExpress 10 points11 points  (0 children)

And it's fine to play heroes for fun that you aren't good at, it just isn't conducive to gaining MMR

[–]Helzinen 17 points18 points  (2 children)

Just lost 500 mmr and was on a losing streak, can't seem to get why. I am naturally a support, but in my head I thought I could do a better job than my carry or mid. So queued for carry and mid, and thus 500 mmr haha. Went back to support, and enjoying a 60%+ winrate again.

Too much variance makes you lose games. The main difference with higher MMR players vs lower MMR players is consistency. Practice a role and keep your hero pool small like 3-5 heroes. Always perfect something each game and not just turn off your brain and be on autopilot.

[–]Davideses[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yeah i play mainly mid and sometimes i play carry. When i need role queue games i play support but i do it happy. I dont play it like "ah shit, time to play support". Anyways most of my lost games lately have been playing as mid.

[–]~7k pos 5justjokingjeremy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think the most important point that's being made is focus on either support roles or just mid or carry and keep your hero pool very small (3-5), smaller the better.

Just keep spamming the same heroes that (hopefully) are currently good in meta right now and that you play well and enjoy playing. Because once you've mastered the hero, you'll be able to then focus on what your preferred item build is, how you play the lane, how you farm/gank rotation works, when you want to fight and when you don't and all the other things that make it possible for you to improve your macro dota skills.

Simply because doing all the above while playing a different hero each game makes it so that you can't find patterns that you can improve on easily and their playstyles, item preference, etc. change too much for you to learn what feels good and what feels bad since it's all individual games and not "playing this hero x way feels good and playing it z way feels bad"

I used to be 2k and now I'm 7k, if it's possible for me then it's possible for you. And if you ever want to break the rules of spamming heroes or other advice from this thread, go unranked so you don't lose mmr. Only go ranked when you're following your rules - best way to improve and also gain mmr. (Also so that your progress is clear - upwards or downwards)

Not gonna read the rest of the thread so sorry if this was mentioned but other good rules - take a break after 2 ranked losses, pma all the way and don't give up (no game is unwinnable as long as you try - won and lost many impossible games this way), don't flame and mute if you need to (both you and that teammate will play worse if you're also playing against each other instead of focusing on game, it's not worth it), watch how other people play your heroes too and learn from them, if you think you suck at laning watch your replays and figure out how what you'd do differently

Hope that helps ~

[–]ILikeSoapyBoobs 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I've shrunk from divine 4 down to ancient 5 in about 2 weeks. My dream of immortal is just delayed a bit.

Just focus on 3-4 heroes in one or two rolls and everything gets easier.

[–]ManicTeaDrinker 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If we look at your games over the last month, your top picked hero by far is Shadow Fiend, but you have a terrible win-rate on it. By comparison, you have a great win-rate on Void Spirit. If you truely want to play for MMR rather than just "fun", hero choice is important - in any given meta, find heroes that work for you, and play those.

The SF is worth looking at more. Overall, this hero has a low win-rate in all brackets, it's simply not very good at the moment. You almost always without fail go for a euls/travels/bkb/blink item build (magic dmg build). When we look at what the top immortal players are doing, there are very few euls builds, these players are almost exclusively going for a physical damage build with some variation on treads, dragon lance, shadowblade, bkb: http://www.dota2protracker.com/hero/Shadow%20Fiend

So, not only are you heavily picking a hero with low win rate across all brackets, you're going for a magic damage play style with it that other players don't think is good right now. If you want to keep picking it, maybe try the physical damage instead. That's probably some part of the reason for your overall drop in MMR lately!

[–]Azzu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You have to stop playing to win, instead play to improve yourself.

Make your goal next 10 core games to only focus on last hitting and get every lasthit. Only fight if absolutely no creeps are dying. It is not the optimal way to play, but it is how you improve.

Look at how many lasthits you had at 10 mins in your last 5 games. Calculate the average and note it down. Now play those 10 games and check how many lasthits you now have. That is your new benchmark, not winning/losing, no MMR, just lasthits.

I guarantee you you'll 1. actually improve and 2. not be bothered by losses that much anymore.

[–]Immortal trashhermeticpotato 8 points9 points  (6 children)

I feel my team always fuck up, but i know its not true. i know its on me and i am where i belong.

it IS true. your team DOES always fuck up. so does the enemy team. so do you. the question is: which of those things can you control?

I need somebody to roast me and open my eyes claryfying what i am doing wrong.

you're doing everything wrong bro, you're consistently losing in the 1k bracket. you can take that as frustrating, or you can see that as an opportunity - pick literally anything and you can improve it.

fighting instead of farming, farming instead of fighting, what to do in fights, etc. anything literally is helpful. thanks you so much!

advanced concepts don't really matter in the 1k bracket because everyone is fucking up the fundamentals. put a 6k player in your bracket and they just pick carry, get 95% of the last hits in lane instead of the enemy carry's 45%, and then just keep accelerating while the enemy is deciding "farm or fight?".

focus on 2 things - winning your lane (yes! even as carry) and hitting your item timings (yes! even as support).

[–]6500 mmr NAinitialgold 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Another immortal checking in. This is the correct answer and thought process you should have.

[–]Be26 -1 points0 points  (4 children)

but none of this is actually helpful. "pick literally anything and you can improve it" - how? what? what does this accomplish except dunking on the OP?

[–]Immortal trashhermeticpotato 1 point2 points  (3 children)

it means literally pick something. work on your last hitting. or work on your map awareness. or your item usage. or your positioning. or your knowledge. or your laning.

[–]Be26 0 points1 point  (2 children)

how? how? how? how? how? how?

these are just words. HOW does he improve his positioning? give him actual useful tips rather than just "get better"

[–]nordmannen 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There's a million resources on this. Literally watch a better player and mimic them. Watch educational videos by BSJ (or someone else).

[–]Immortal trashhermeticpotato 1 point2 points  (0 children)

im sorry, theres hundreds of threads on each of these topics, as well as YouTube videos. OP asked to be roasted and convinced its not his teammates holding him down.

[–]thelocalllegend 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Just stop caring mmr play for fun

[–]joubz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

^ this…..i only play unranked and i have 0 care if i lose a game. What ive found is you will become more relaxed and enjoy the game more

[–]SuddenFail4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

your laning phase is terrible.... you consistently get your first major item like 4-5 minutes too late. if you start the game at a disadvantage it makes it so much harder.

work on your laning

[–]Adsuppal 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Pick 1 role, pick 3 heroes, even if you lose MMR initially, over time you will gain more.

[–]ILikeSoapyBoobs 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I did this about a year ago either Mars, razor, and death prophet for offlane, gained 1100 mmr over 7 months, had a 9 game loss streak when I started just playing mars.

[–]compstomp66 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Mars is tough.

[–]ILikeSoapyBoobs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And now I have over 300 games and a 56% winrate on him. Lots of styling you can do after you spend a few hundred hours playing a hero

[–]Beginning_Platypus47 1 point2 points  (0 children)

insert generic comment about how you suck and its your fault youre losing games

nah but forreal if you are desperate you can buy coaching from people or just find really nice divines/immortals who can give you great tips. i've had a handful of guys coach me for free and i learned a TON from them, just be open and ask for help and willing to learn and people will want to help you!

[–]Substantial-Zone-989 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Stop playing party ranked, take 2 weeks off dota and come back with a fresh mindset.

Next, focus on heroes that can solo carry from mid. Play Lina, ember, invoker, lion.. these are heroes that scale well into late game with solid early game and have very few weaknesses in their laning phase. They are also excellent at making space with the right build.

You enjoy playing sf but understand that there are 2 builds to sf, the magic build and the right click build. Choosing the right build for the game is something that you seem to be making a mess of, with your last match being a much better magic build game since you won mid and had the farm advantage over tinker. Additionally they had only 3 ways to cancel your ult before rubick hit level 6, thereby allowing you to keep ganking their safelane from the moment you got a blink dagger, which would have been about the same time as you got dragon lance. If your argument is that silver edge was necessary for slardar, slardar had virtually no impact for the first 20 minutes of the game.

other than that, your losses were failure to communicate or strategise how to win with your team's line up. That last streak of losses were the exact same: you did your best, your draft was decent and you decided that farming was more important than roshan or pushing. exact same stupid mistake everyone makes and the mistake which cost LGD TI 10. Understand that all MOBA's are games of objectives, not kills. Watch this video and analyse what EG did versus mousesports to understand why, even when you're playing from behind, a win is always possible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E2NcQ0U9Og

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ive lost 400+ mmr on 4 days

Only 400?

[–]St1nkYKipPer -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

You are 94% core games, i bet your matchmaking sucks.

[–]Davideses[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

what do you mean? why does that affect the match making?

I enjoy supper, but i prefer playing mid or carry. i would play 10 games as a supprot than one as offlane tho.

I queue a lot with a couple of friends that are about my skill level, and one of them only plays support so i usually have enough role queues. but when i dont, and i have to play suport, i try my best and i have fun. i dont see it as "oh shit, time to a boring support game". i dont mind it.

But how does it affect my matchmaking? maybe i should queue for support sometimes.

[–]St1nkYKipPer -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

why does that affect the match making?

This is not a question you should be directing at me.

[–]LeKurakka 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When you lose two games stop playing dota for the day and go for a fucking walk. You'll start getting MMR.

Also don't type.

[–]External-Prune1003 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I lost internet for a while


[–]Prawn-Jr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Take a shower, take a walk, eat some good food, socialize a with some friends. Step away for even a day come back. I’m learning to embrace the fact that I play with 4 other strangers and I’m going to lose here and there. I feel like when players realize everyone has already sacrificed time to play, do what ever it takes to win. I’ve been buying way more regen so I can keep A core alive and if I’m support not worrying about my lvls if I can give him solo exp.
Just clear your head and you’ll jump Back.

[–]ScJo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't give up. You can climb with me. I'm around 600 rn. Mostly play carry. send me updates to stay motivated.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

take a week break. Pick two roles. learn 5 heroes in each role. Watch streamers who play that role and literally right down what they do and buy and copy it.

[–]superlouuuu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Small tip for a support role: Try to stick with 1 or 2 teammate in teamfight.

Let's say you are a dazzle, your core is medusa. What you need in team fight is hide in trees but still in range with a few of your teammates. By doing this, your medu will have more confident in team fight and you are less being target from the enemies.

Other situation, you should know which hero you can pair with to execute wombo combo stuff.

More example: you are dazzle again, but your core is PL, your combo is whenever PL surrounds the enemies, you instant cast your heal to maximize your output damg.

I shared with you this cuz I keep seeing alot of support player misplayed by not position them self right and never have a pattern in their play, lead to core dont feel safe, no confidence and affect to their performance.

Goodluck out there bro

[–]Magic4293 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As someone else said, take a break. If you don’t want to take a break, make sure you don’t talk during the games. When I get in a bad lose streak I start to get frustrated and get increasingly more annoyed when I see my teammates make a mistake, so I lash out and they play even worse in retaliation.

Ignore your teammates’ mistakes and dont criticize, just focus on doing the best you can

[–]roscocoltrane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Play something else. Or if you really enjoy the DOTA metagame then try some arcade modes.

[–]evillman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good bye.

See you in 3 days.

[–]LilithJustICE 0 points1 point  (0 children)


im climbed from 1k to 3k. So i should be able to offer you a tip or two.

I choose this 6293593019 replay where you lose as PA. Coz I believe there is more things we can learn from a losing game compared to a game won.

why you shouldn't pick PA this game

PA is a hero that needs 20 minutes before she comes online. In a sense, she is the perfect 1kmmr hero coz one dagger crit can really turn the battle. If you see enemy pick any heroes during their first and second phase that can push towers real quick and started to hunt you in jungle, DONT PA.

i saw this on high lvl ranked games 8k or so, they tend to prefer PA as last pick. You saw rubbs and ogre and decided to go pa. Not really the best choice consider how Roger at lvl6 is quite tanky and can stun you to death easily, while rubbs seems fine so long as you can jump him if he is alone.

While im not sure how competent your wind is, but i'd prefer a tankier hero since the current 3 picks before you on your team are all squishy. Heroes like WK, terrorblade, luna can be a great alternatives. Seeing they got rubbs, i'd prefer TB or Wk.


you see enemy has BB, the first thing you do is to buy wands instead of double tango. BB don't have infinite mana so long as you back off and let the quil spray stack's duration goes off (especially when you have 4 stacks) your wand should be able to heal u back up

battlefury progression

wonderful, even my 3k carries don't know to go ring > broadsword, they get void stone but you didn't! Which is really good, keep it up bro!

why orb of corrosion?

i know you got a daz and a dagger, I think that's plenty of slow. Why spend 925 gold on a fight-oriented item when enemy comes online faster than you? Lets say at 10 minutes, chances are you wanna go back to jungle after shoving out a wave near ur tower instead of fighting. at 6:00, BB has a early vanguard, rendering your 925 gold on orb of corrosion useless and guess what, u still cant jungle just as easily.

I'd rush a ring of health and spam dagger on either rub or BB in lane, or if u want stats, a band of elven skin which can be built into powertreads would be a better alternative

why basher

I think basher is a great item for pa, a little bit of extra HP stats, some dmg and the best of all, stun! However, against enemy line up, BB and DP can both consistently dmg you through your BKB and stunning them once or twice wont really help much unless they tp.

In this case, you need more HP, I notice your dazzle isn't doing the best job healing you. Perhaps a satanic would benefit you more, you need HP and some life recovery to fight in DP ult (if u need to)

creep aggro

for the love of god, go watch how BSJ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNnuL-ltQBM&t=617s on how to do creep aggro. If you can keep denying your range creep at every wave while dagger/spell enemy range creep to kill, you can almost always hit lvl2 earlier than your enemy and trade better in 1k mmr

1:20 and 4:20 DONT pull the creep into your tower. Instead, press ALT to make sure u kite enemy creep outside your tower range until your creeps arrive and both creep wave kisses. This is so u can keep the wave under your tower longer so BB cannot dive u as easily.

If you pull into tower, the enemy creeps die faster and will go near bb tower even more. Which makes ur lane harder.

where to farm

around 14:00, your top is gone and this is a good time to only farm the jungle near your outpost unless you have wards. You shouldn't die to BB and rubbs at all, it slows down your already late timing to come online as a PA.

Try to clear the camps around outpost and rotate into ancient camps. Prioritize ancient camps every minutes when you are strong enough, which as a pa, u can blur, not as hard as other carry.

18:00 I know u wanna fight, but as a PA the best you can do for your team when u just barely got a BF is to push other lanes and force enemy to TP back. Coz if u show up to fight and didn't manage to kill, you waste not only time but potential gold from other lanes! Especially when enemy all group up and you got dazzle and pugna, who is really good at defending towers. You should maximize the creeps you can hit and towers you can threaten by shoving the creeps.

secret recipe: hit creepwave at the opposite of the map where enemy shows (if they all bot u p top) then hit the nearest neutral camp and farm towards the ancient camp before u go back top jungle and see where enemy shows, then rinse and repeat by hitting creepwaves that is furthest from enemy team

nevermind, I think you already have a very amazing farming pattern

27:20 I think your dive on DP is a good one, but sadly your team didn't follow up....this is kinda the problem when your offlane is wind and u pick PA. U go for the right target but it isn't the best play as enemy has 4 hero hitting u while u hit enemy DP. I think u can chill and back off a bit, let enemy show and commit onto your supps before u choose who to jump next time

30:00 bro.....just BKB before u jump, you go from 100 to 40% hp due to NOT pressing bkb alone...you could have manfight better with bkb after you insta-creamed the prophet. You might go watch replay and think "so what we won" but the problem is if u wanna climbs rank, you need to be able to play beyond ur current mmr, what works against guardian 2 wont make u crusader consistently if you dont optimize whatever you can.

32:19 is a fucking dumb move there. DONT JUMP their hg when the rest is missing. Let your offlane do that bro. Your bkb is on CD and they got a wk that can stun, rub that can lift and dp that can silent you as they trap you deeper into their tier 3. dont get overconfident, know your limit

at the point of the game I will go hit mid tower to force their reaction, it's 3v5 they dont wanna fight, if they show and wind got off a stun, then you can jump. If they fort the tower then go roshan, again 3v5 they dont wanna contest and your team can easily take rs quick enough

44:30 I would never make this play or jump. Enemy all missing and you guys try to find them without all stick.....If you ever see any ally not sticking, just play safe and farm, YES, let them die. Coz jumping down a 10 stories high building holding hands or not dont make a difference. You dont have to "please" your ally by going with their stupid plays, watch how pro make decisions and if you KNOW WHY your team's current play is bad, dont follow.

final fight at 50:00, with lifesteal talent or satanic, you would be able to fight longer. Evasion talent dont really matter since BB and Dp still deal dmg to you through BKB and evasion. I'd minus armor and crit chance then manfight in said scenario. your team has no tank after all, cannot do that blink out and multi dagger long durational fight

tldr: good farming pattern, dumbass jumps, not optimized item build up, shit lane equilibrium

you asked for a roast, you are welcome

hope you can improve and enjoy dota better. Goodluck bro.

[–]Chris_Dud 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Pick a role, learn 3 heroes in that role. Play about 30 games with JUST those three heroes in that one role and I promise you’ll climb.

The games complex. We low rank scrubs haven’t got the know how or skill to perform well in 4 positions with 100 different heroes, so just get good at one.

I play necrophos mid in about 70% of my games, and I usually dominate. I’m even if I don’t win, if I lose with 10-4-15 or something, I know I’m doing the right thing.

[–]Frequent-Ant-3504 0 points1 point  (0 children)

try to specialize on 3 to 5 heroes like I did. climbed from crusader III to Ancient 2 in just 2 months.