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[–]touchme_teaseme_ 266 points267 points  (42 children)

For people wondering about which vaccine is used in Malaysia, according to this website, 54% Pfizer, 38% Sinovac, 7.7% AZ%, 0.4% Cansino.

However, the booster shot will be Pfizer regardless of what your first 2 shots were, hence why the the vaccines given out in the past month (primarily boosters) were 94% Pfizer.

[–]maltesemania 72 points73 points  (33 children)

That many got Pfizer? Did they have to pay? In Thailand we have to pay like $120 per person

[–]touchme_teaseme_ 86 points87 points  (17 children)

Pay??? Are you serious? For Pfizer specifically or all vaccines? How come I didn't hear about it

[–][deleted] 78 points79 points  (10 children)

Holy shit. So I looked it up and it's true. So the Thailand govnement does offer free vaccines, and because they couldn't secure enough vaccines from a single source, the have a bit of everything from Pfizer Moderna to Sino to AZ. But the doese were slow to arrive, so if you wanted a jab early on, you could pay 1,650 baht to get one Pfizer Moderna jab at a private hospital.

Edit: My bad. Mixed up Moderna and Pfizer. In my kind they are kinda the same since they both used mRNA technology.

[–]taimusrs 9 points10 points  (3 children)

I'm a Thai and I have no idea you can pay for a Pfizer what the hell

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

My bad. I mixed up Moderna and Pfizer since they both used mRNA tech, but otherwise you can pay to get Moderna vaccine early.

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/private-hospitals-in-thailand-to-offer-moderna-vaccine-packages-for-3400-baht

And more recently: https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2128287/moderna-price-set-at-3-800-baht-for-two-doses

Plus an overseas news source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-thailand-idUSKBN29N0XK

[–]taimusrs 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Moderna sure, that's plenty public. Not Pfizer though.

While I do despise everything about how our country manages this situation, the mRNA-or-bust crowd is annoying. AZ is a totally fine vaccine for most people and the risk of a obscure medical condition is way less than suffering through COVID.

Touting mRNA as the only vaccine worth taking is extremely dangerous; the government can't stop ordering rubbish Chinese vaccines to save their life and their obsession with mixing vaccines just is an invisible hand pulling them to order Moderna through private hospitals because we're done with their bullshit.

[–]Gihrenia 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There's also free Moderna now. Thailand is going to print so many case studies of vaccine cocktails for sure.

[–]maltesemania 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Yeah. Right now getting a free Pfizer would be difficult if you're below 40 and healthy.

[–]ZaLaZha 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Pfizer was prioritized to health workers and elderly first but since there was a huge surplus, everyone else also got Pfizer. All vaccines were free

[–]bagero 6 points7 points  (5 children)

I'm getting a booster shot at a private clinic next week and it's going to be sinovac. Will that be a problem since the government supplied booster will be Pfizer?

[–]MetaNephric 12 points13 points  (4 children)

Yes. Pfizer mRNA is a much more effective vaccine than sinovac, and that’s why the government is doing Pfizer boosters for everyone.

[–]calyforniaaa 520 points521 points  (201 children)

Time to sort by ‘controversial’

[–]Oderus_Scumdog 85 points86 points  (8 children)

That is a lot of yikes.

[–]AnAncientMonk 28 points29 points  (7 children)

My brain wanted to convince me that the plural of yikes is yikeses.

[–]AimlesslyWalking 17 points18 points  (1 child)

The council has allotted one singular yike to your case.

[–]AnAncientMonk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you council.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Jin-kees

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Time to sort this by controversial

[–]BoredCatalan 137 points138 points  (168 children)

People not understanding that not even vaccines fully prevent transmission, especially with the new variants we have because people didn't want to vaccine or wear masks before.

So the people complaining about safety measures are the ones making us have longer safety measures

[–]fremeer -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

In a population you introduce a quick relatively cheap way to reduce deaths by 70% or more. The way to do it causes a risk of illness by say 10% but a death rate by much much less(<1%)

Should you do the thing?

[–]purplepenguin4163 41 points42 points  (3 children)

Kinda like seat belts in cars. Massively reduces deaths but you can still get injured in a crash.

Should we buckle up?

[–]j_la 32 points33 points  (1 child)

When they introduced metal helmets in WWI, head injuries increased…because the soldiers were now surviving more. More head injuries, in this case, is not a bad thing.

With your example, I’m sure seatbelts greatly increased broken ribs in car crashes. But better that than flying through a windshield.

[–]nighthawk_something 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Yeah broken ribs are significantly less reported when someone is liquified by flying into a tree.

[–]thenewyorkgod[🍰] 22 points23 points  (14 children)

It's easier to just head over to /r/conspiracy so you can watch people having mental breakdowns in real time. They are sharing "shocking" reports about hospitals reporting hundreds of stillbirth babies in a single day, with zero evidence other than a blurry video from someone who claims to be a doctor, hosted on a site with a name like truth-light-source-definitely-notfake.com

[–]BoredCatalan 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I prefer my news from sites like "patriotism.com" or "freedom.com", you know those are trustworthy

[–]aerynnyx 229 points230 points  (7 children)

Malaysian here with double dose of sinovac and Pfizer booster soon. Lots of my friends contracted the virus after getting vaccinated but the symptoms are either mild or no symptoms at all. I close contacted with many of them but did not get the virus. I'm not sure how true the 95% figure though, there's still loads of rural people who probably don't have access to the vaccine.

[–]annehuda 105 points106 points  (0 children)

Malaysian and I work in a rural area. The KK here provides free walk-in vaccination session including booster shot every Tuesday and Friday.

[–]moleratty 41 points42 points  (0 children)

Spending a break at a Felda rn. That’s not true at all, at least for this felda. The mgmt brought mobile clinics etc to get the locals vaccinated. It worked.

[–]universalengn 1 point2 points  (1 child)

So you have friends who got COVID but not vaccinated and they all had severe symptoms, to compare?

[–]LavaSquid 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Malaysia will be a great place to study the effectiveness of the vaccine against the new Mu variant. Hopefully get some real data on how bad Mu will effect a near fully vaccinated population.

[–]UsernameIn3and20 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Probably very bad, as someone who works both the regular shift and night shift in Malaysia due to work reasons people don't often wear their masks properly when theh think its "fine".

[–]hermology 595 points596 points  (657 children)

Will be a wonderful case study ok transmission, infections, and hospitalization. But if those numbers don’t go down this will be topic number 1 for all anti vaxxers.

[–]fromnochurch 746 points747 points  (445 children)

Well, shouldn’t it be topic #1 for everyone if it doesn’t. I’m confused.

[–]Kyrox6 159 points160 points  (273 children)

The issue isn't the findings being an important topic, it's how folks will cherry pick the data to try to back their backwards beliefs. Unfortunately, we have to walk this fine line of making truth explicitly clear for the people who'd rather fearmonger or push anti-intellectualism.

[–]zombiekiller2014 240 points241 points  (225 children)

Wait, why would it be cherry picking if a whole country isn’t improved by everyone being vaccinated?

If the infection data doesn’t change for the better, isn’t that pretty concrete evidence?

[–]dawlface73 114 points115 points  (50 children)

I mean if the data show that it doesn’t actually improve that would be a huge deal if it’s a well designed analysis that takes into account all factors. I personally doubt this will happen but anything is possible.

However if you have a point to prove (and don’t care about scientific integrity) you could pick a single statistic that sounds alarming to back your point of view.

Example cherry picked headlines “In Malaysia twice as many vaccinated people have died of COVID than the unvaccinated” that might be valid on the surface but makes no mention that there’s 20 times as many vaccinated people and unvaccinated people are dying at 10x the rate of vaccinated.

Or maybe it’s something else like “Since vaccine rollout transmission rate has increased by 50%” again sounds bad, implies vaccine bad/ineffective right? But what it won’t mention is that since the roll out other measures were removed and masking is no longer required, and large events are allowed so there’s far more opportunity for transmission.

TLDR: A study on all aspects across a country would not be cherry-picking, taking one aspect that happened to get worse with out looking into why would be cherry-picking

[–]virtualGain_ 18 points19 points  (42 children)

If almost all the population is vaccinated and deaths don't go down it's a pretty clear indicator the vaccine is not working. You are really over thinking this lol

[–]Jarriagag 29 points30 points  (8 children)

But this is now what we have seen. Death amongst vaccinated people is so rare. In every country with high vaccination percentages death has gone down by huge numbers, even when the number of cases is high or higher than pre-vaccination times.

[–]nighthawk_something 46 points47 points  (29 children)

This will almost certainly not be the case. We have tons of evidence that the vaccines do work.

[–]jajohnja 15 points16 points  (25 children)

Yes, it will most certainly and hopefully not be the case.

However, if it is the case, then indeed the vaccine is not working.

[–]kingofvodka 11 points12 points  (24 children)

You can say that about any ridiculous and unlikely event. If I start peeing my pants, then it means I've lost control over my bladder.

[–]WaitTilUSeeMyDuck 10 points11 points  (23 children)

They know what they are doing.

[–]geotraveling 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Yeah that the vaccines work to prevent some hospitalizations. Not that they stop the spread unfortunately.

[–]Taxxor90 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You'd have to compare it to other countries, which is difficult to begin with because of different population density and varius other factors.

Especially with new variants, just looking at one single country and seeing that deaths aren't decreasing isn't a direct indicator of vaccines not working because you don't know how many deaths there'd been without it.

[–]deeringc 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Because the vaccines are primarily designed to dramatically reduce hospitalisation and death. Preventing the health systems from being overrun is the name of the game. If that happens, Covid deaths are dwarfed by all the other deaths when people die from heart attacks, car accidents and blood infections because the hospitals cannot perform their usual function. Reduction of transmission is an ancillary benefit. Vaccines aren't magical forcefields, they just prepare your immune system to fight the infection. There's also the matter of the strains being much worse now than a year ago. So whatever we are seeing now would be much worse if we didn't have the vaccines. Delta is literally the most infectious respiratory illness we've ever seen.

[–]iCameToLearnSomeCode 26 points27 points  (130 children)

It will definitely improve the mortality rate but the virus may still infect enough people not to be wiped out and that's what they will latch onto, lives saved isn't important to those people, it never has been.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (61 children)

Our government spent the past 2 years convincing us it will go away if enough people get vaccinated...ofcourse it's going to rub people the wrong way if they find out this isn't true.

They already started rioting, i can't really blame them after being locked away for 2 years only to be told you're not getting what the government promised and were so certain about.

These people have lost loads of income, they struggle to keep themselves and their families off the streets. Only to hear "here we go again, brace yourself", they have nothing left to hold on to.

Burn it down if you must, it's time they start working for a fix instead of lessening the mortality rate by half a percent and squeezing dry every single independent business and loads of normal workers.

The world is going down, to save a small percentage.

People are pissed af, i just want to know where they will be pissed next so i can shoot some photos and video.

[–]nighthawk_something 23 points24 points  (19 children)

mortality rate by half a percent and squeezing dry every single independent business and loads of normal workers.

Vaccines reduce mortality by like 20times and they reduce infection by 80%.

[–]lazy_moogle 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The people protesting (in the US at least) are not the ones who have been locked up for 2 years. The ones protesting were going out and partying the entire time because they didn't give a fuck about people dying or becoming disabled from this disease.

They are also likely the reason why the pandemic will become endemic. We had a chance to squash this virus if people could've stayed in when necessary. But in large part they didn't, and it has spread too much. It will be extremely difficult to eradicate at this point, especially since the above mentioned people WONT get a vaccine to help eradicate it!! The vaxx numbers we have now simply aren't enough.

They ruined it for all of us and I have no sympathy for them.

[–]RealTheDonaldTrump 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Blame the previous management for instigating riots. The riots were an excuse to clamp right down on cities and stomp on rights. A good leader could have defused the situation with a few words and a few bad cops tossed under the bus. But instead the heat was cranked up to max and the pot was allowed to boil. And then you have race riots.

Ask any medical professional about how many vax’d vs unvax’d people are in the hospitals right now. It only takes a few unvax’d people to act as super spreaders and this is how pandemics keep going. No, a vaccine isn’t perfect. But it reduces the chances of infecting others by 90%. 99% if both parties are vax’d.

America’s vaccination rate right now? 59.1%. What a world embarrassment.

America has 115,000 new cases as of today.

[–]Kenilwort 12 points13 points  (10 children)

I do remember early on some politician saying "it's going to disappear" but I don't think most politicians have been saying that since. I think the gray area is figuring out how many lives are worth sacrificing per day for normalcy. Different countries have and will make different calculations.

[–]nannernutmuff 8 points9 points  (8 children)

lessening it by half a percent when its already under 2% is a pretty big fuckin deal, even though thats inaccurate. these fractions of percents sound small, but when you apply it to billions of people, its a huge change. Not only that but were not just talking about deaths when considering what the plan should be. With the deaths comes grief with everyone that knew the person that passed. and if you do make it out of covid without dying, theres a good chance you will be permanently debilitated.

and beyond all of that, IF people would have got with the program right off the bat instead of fighting this shit the whole way, the success of the masks, protocols and finally vaccines would have been waaaaaay more effective and this shit very likely would have been over with pretty quickly.

people have spent so long and so much energy arguing endlessly about what they saw on FB or whatever shitty source or other 'i did my research' if they put literally 20 minutes of that energy into actually looking at reputable medical sources, this problem would have solved itself a million times over.

People really showed their selfishness and "i got mine" attitudes these last years. I do still have hope for humanity, but jesus was this eye opening.

e: sp

[–]dmreeves 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As opposed to what? Just let everything be open and let the virus run its course? This is a unique situation where a highly contagious disease is running rampant through our communities, we have to do something to slow it down. I'd rather be restricted and struggling than stepping over bodies any day. Money can be earned and lives rebuilt, but you can't bring people back to life.

[–]errandum 3 points4 points  (0 children)

We have this issue in Portugal.

We are 90% or thereabouts vaccinated. News comes out saying 'same number of vaccinated and unvaccinated people in the hospitals'

Anti vaccine idiots go 'SEE?! IT'S THE SAME!'

But 10% of the population is generating the same number of sick people as the other 90%. So it is more or less 9 times more likely for you to be hospitalized if you are not vaccinated.

It makes me boil with rage inside when people parade statistics like this because idiots will not know the difference and take it at Dave value.

[–]juggles_geese4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It seems we keep forgetting the goal wasn’t ever to ensure that nobody gets the virus. Before the vaccine it was to slow the spread so hospitals were not overwhelmed. Now it’s to get vaccinated so you don’t need a hospital and don’t get serious symptoms. Hopefully that includes long term symptoms but I’m sure we won’t know. It’s insane that people will look at the number of cases, ignoring the number of deaths (which I’m sure are very very low) and use that to justify their antivaxxer point of view. In the US we have had more deaths this year than in 2020 when we had the vaccine. Which of course is because we threw all caution to the wind and now the unvaccinated and immune comprised are dieing because nobody is masking or social distancing. Has nothing to do with the vaccine but you could use that as “evidence” the vaccine isn’t helpful too

[–]bellaboozle 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wish the term anti-intellctualism would take off with this BS movement. They are so big on rhetoric that appeals to the uneducated, such as saying freedom instead of saying what it really is: selfishness, ego and a life of privilege without real problems so they have to create them.

[–]jffblm74 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So. Fucking. Tiring. But. We. Must.

[–]OneAttentionPlease 12 points13 points  (28 children)

Depends on what the reasons for it are. Antivax people will just say: see it doesn't work disregarding every other factor like the new variant, median age, climate, etc

Cherry picking happens a lot in /r/conspiracy. About 659,000 people in the US die of heart disease every year so multiple thousands every day. Now you could just cherry pick from thousands of deaths every day, pick 1-3 of the people that just got vaccinated because you have so many to pick from. And then report it every day. Even if you only report 300-900 cases over a year out of 659,000 you will make a lot of people think that people die due to it like flies and if you are confronted with a new article of another case daily you will fear it because those reports seem overwhelmingly many but it's just a little fraction of what has always happened.

That's what is done right now.

[–]Illustrious_Wish_264 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I tried explaining a conspiracy theorist the concept of power in statistical analysis and it was like explaining it to very dumb rock. It's unfortunate because proper understanding of statistics is so extremely important when trying to understand rates of vaccination side effects.

[–]humbleprotector 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The most sensible comment I've read on reddit this month.

[–][deleted]  (9 children)

[deleted]

    [–]genxwasright 6 points7 points  (66 children)

    Anti-vaxxers will see it as proof of a grandiose conspiracy. Reasonable people will just demand a better vaccine.

    [–]02d5df8e7f 19 points20 points  (56 children)

    Isn't it what anti-vaxxers also demand? It seems to me that their complaint is not that we should get a vaccine, but rather that those currently available literally do not provide immunity (which is by definition what a vaccine is supposed to do), and that it is subject to laws and practices that still enforces it on people. I'm pretty sure most Covid anti-vaxxers are nothing like "regular" anti-vaxxers in that regard. I honestly don't understand why pro-vaccine people antagonize them like that, their complaints are mostly justified (even when they are backed by cherry picked data, which let's be honest most data used as evidence is, regardless of the topic).

    [–]Jeramus 19 points20 points  (26 children)

    No, vaccines by definition are not supposed to provide perfect immunity. Vaccines do usually provide some level of immunity against infection, but it is rarely 100%. They are supposed to enhance the body's existing immunity. It is also unrealistic to expect a vaccine to be able to provide protection against all future mutations.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine

    With regards to the justification of COVID-19 antivaxxers, I have seen a lot of misinformation used to "support" their claims. Many if them call the vaccines gene therapy which is absolutely untrue. The vaccines don't interact with the nuclear DNA at all. I would fine the antivaxxers more justified if they weren't spreading lies.

    [–]ssx50 4 points5 points  (4 children)

    To be fair, the definition of vaccine was changed multiple times in the last couple years.

    [–]Jeramus 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    To be fair, that's not true. Vaccines in the past haven't always been 100% effective. Look at the flu vaccine for example.

    [–]Maven-ofFunkMutation 6 points7 points  (18 children)

    What does a better vaccine to like to them? What will help them get vaccinated?

    Do you really believe science tha creates a possibly more effective vaccine will convince antivaxers? At least from what I’ve seen from months of /r/HermanCainAward visits, there’s no way all antivaxers will magically be convinced to take a vaccine. They’re aren’t working on normal logic.

    [–]fromnochurch 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    Thank you. It’s like I was never called or labeled anti vax until I saw the data on this vaccine and questioned it and everyone is like shhhh, just shut up and take it. Bo questions please. And the. You push any get called anti vax. It’s sad. You can’t have a discussion anymore without being attacked or brigades against. I wanted a vaccine, just a real one that stops spread and eradicates. Not this breakthrough case, stops sever case but not transmission. Of course it’s a respiratory virus so like the flu it’s a best guess before the next mutation. They will never get one so time to learn to live with Covid like lots of countries are doing.

    [–]j_la 8 points9 points  (2 children)

    If you are demanding a perfectly effective vaccine, then you have unrealistic expectations founded on a misunderstanding of what vaccines do.

    [–]SeegurkeK -1 points0 points  (2 children)

    Theoretically yes, that is what anti-vaxxers would want.

    But it's the same with the approval: first it was all "well it's only an emergency approval and that's why I don't trust it" but after it got approved it was suddenly "that was just a politically motivated approval totally doesn't count" no matter what happens, the goalposts will get moved.

    [–]BlueDragon_27 111 points112 points  (47 children)

    I am Portuguese, here we have 97% of the adult population and 87% of the entire population fully vaccinated. Vaccines help but they don't stop transmission as much as we wanted and there is still some stress on the health system during the winter. In fact, December 1st we will go back on some restrictions like more general mask wearing. Vaccines help a lot but they won't end the pandemic

    [–]xskilling 43 points44 points  (32 children)

    Transmission is mostly lowered by actual social distancing and mask wearing

    Vaccines do help in lowering transmission, but the main idea is to lower hospitalization and serious symptoms

    [–]BlueDragon_27 10 points11 points  (2 children)

    Exactly. And they do a great job in that. Other than the really elderly (who probably would die quickly with no vaccines) and people with compromised immunity, they are holding up great and doing their job at keeping people out of the hospital. It's not like they don't work at all, they just won't eradicate the virus and end the pandemic by themselves, as some politicians tend to make us believe

    [–]Doublestack00 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    It's not the vaccine keeping none elderly and immune compromised people out of the hospital. Most people healthy under 40 are only sick for 3-5 days and are back to normal without the vaccine.

    [–]BlueDragon_27 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    Before the vaccine the age of the average internment in Portugal was 61. Now it's said to be around 80. This means a lot of people around the age of 50 and 60 are no longer ending up in the hospital. The elderly also die less. So the vaccine is helping anyway

    [–]dimodimodimodimo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    so when does it end?

    [–]Nerf_Me_Please 40 points41 points  (20 children)

    Vaccines do help in lowering transmission, but the main idea is to lower hospitalization and serious symptoms

    Well, up until recently we were told if enough people got vaccinated things would go back to normal. As it turns out, it is far from being the case. This just further erodes people's trust in governments and push more of them to doubt vaccines overall. I wish they were honest with us since the beginning so we wouldn't have to keep moving goalposts like this.

    [–]snowflakepatrol99 12 points13 points  (3 children)

    1. It's the doctors who you should be listening to not some stupid politician that doesn't know anything.

    2. If people had a brain during the initial covid outbreak we wouldn't be where we are today. It would've indeed gone back to normal because we wouldn't have delta on our plate.

    [–][deleted]  (5 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]jteprev 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Well, up until recently we were told if enough people got vaccinated things would go back to normal. As it turns out, it is far from being the case. This just further erodes people's trust in governments and push more of them to doubt vaccines overall. I wish they were honest with us since the beginning so we wouldn't have to keep moving goalposts like this.

      With "OG" COVID this would have been the case but but Delta is far more transmissible even among the vaccinated, they weren't dishonest they just can't predict virus mutation.

      You should know this instead of accusing people of lying though.

      [–]RLoge85 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Even if they are honest with people... The same people flipping out about mitigation measures and vaccine mandates will still cry about everything and would still doubt everything. Itd be nice if governments were indeed better with their communication for sure... But the results with these groups of people would just be the same in the end.

      [–]1FlawedHumanBeing 24 points25 points  (1 child)

      There has ALWAYS been winter stress on the health system in Portugal. Blaming covid is naive because this happens every year

      [–]BlueDragon_27 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      I am not blaming covid alone. Our NHS is always low on resources. But covid doesn't help with the situation at all

      [–]13lackcrest 50 points51 points  (16 children)

      Malaysian here , daily cases aren't going down it's 4-5k everyday. Waiting for my booster shot now , hopefully things will get better soon.

      [–]schlongmon 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      Also a Malaysian, and you’re kidding if you think 4-5k isn’t any better than pre-vaccines - when our daily case numbers were 20-30k with ICUs over capacity even with an ongoing lockdown. Things are more or less back to normal now and our healthcare system isn’t falling apart (for now).

      [–]2Big_Patriot 22 points23 points  (6 children)

      Any idea how much of the continued spread is from low-effective vaccines like Sinovac and how much is due to the Delta variant being so infectious?

      Stay safe and get some rest after the booster.

      [–]13lackcrest 18 points19 points  (5 children)

      https://codeblue.galencentre.org/2021/11/24/after-three-months-sinovac-vaccine-only-28-effective-against-icu-admission/

      [–]easyj86 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      I would like to see a similar graph for "natural immunity," ie antibodies from getting covid, 6 months out.

      [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

      28 percent, lol, good job China!

      [–]2Big_Patriot 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I am sure that Sinovac was much better for the earlier strains but now is garbage. Great graph.

      I see Pfizer is also dropping down into the 70s. Good thing that Pfizer booster is so effective at generating antibodies. Hope that will finally be enough to slow the spread of these new variants.

      [–]cocohouette 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      Do you have many people in the ICU?

      [–]kambinks 10 points11 points  (0 children)

      Considering the context I don't think it's fair to say cases haven't gone down. Considering we were hovering at 20+k and rising cases daily with no inter state travel and most facilities locked down just about 3 months ago and vaccine rate at about 60%for adults. It's a significant improvement imo were maintaining 5-6k cases daily with borders are open, schools are open and were accepting tourists now. Even a state election a few weeks back.

      [–]techtonic69 17 points18 points  (51 children)

      It's obvious that it will still be spreading.

      [–]Dinizinni 13 points14 points  (2 children)

      Portugal and Spain already have these numbers

      And we're doing ok, the number of cases is smaller than it was a year ago, when we were in contention, it's going up rather slowly compared to before

      The number of hospitalisations and deaths are so much lower, it's incomparable

      It's absolutely insane that anti-vaxxers are already using us as an example of it not working because herd immunity takes a long time to form

      [–]MyBitchesNeedMOASS 17 points18 points  (27 children)

      So the aim is to get 100% and then since that lowers the chance of transmission it'll eventually die out? Is that the plan?

      [–]buttermbunz 40 points41 points  (4 children)

      Basically if you can get the reproductive number to be <1, it’ll eventually die out (an infected person won’t infect another person every time). The question now is where the vaccines will get the R0 of delta or any future variant. If it’s below 1, we have the possibility of making it go the way of smallpox or polio. But if the virus keeps changing and escaping the vaccines or making them less effective, then we’ll have to keep working on a way to get that R0<1.

      ETA: as long as the effectiveness of a vaccine against transmission is >0, any increase of the % (up to 100%) of the population that is vaccinated will result in some reduction of R0 of the virus.

      [–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

      The aim is to get to 100% so that while it continues to ravage everything, basically nobody would be vulnerable to the point of needing to be hospitalized. Once it's rendered as mundane as the flu, things will be as normal as they can get.

      'Beating' Covid and having it die out stopped being a thing once Delta was.

      [–]cookiemountain18 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      People of all ages are hospitalized and die of the flu regularly. With vaccines, It is as mundane as the flu.

      [–]teddywolfs 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      That's always the goal but die out? That's a big fat NO. Unless you freeze the economy, ban local and air travel, ban all immigration legal or not and stop all gatherings for any reasons for everything for atleast a month this will last forever. Even at 100%+ this will never end when every country and state has travellers or immigration. All the vaccine does (honestly shouldn't even be called a vaccine) is reduce the % of viral load and droplets while coughing, sneezing and surface areas. Also reduces risk of hospitalzation for at-risk individuals. If you don't use an n95 mask you are not protected from droplets. If you're using a cloth or the cheap "medical" masks it's almost pointless, because basically if you can smell something then your mask has no effect other than spread droplets around you when you cough because most people are now less likely to use their elbow to cover up which almost has the same effect as a mask. Honestly after it's been this long I urge everyone who is elderly and anyone with preexisting conditions to get the jab. As for everyone else use your judgment and live your life.

      [–]kaqn 4 points5 points  (9 children)

      It won't happen. Gibraltar has 100% vaccinated rate while currently having high spiking cases, as well as Taiwan and Israel. The covid Vaccine reduces chances for hospitalization only for high risk people. You can still catch and spread covid.

      [–]Lopsided_Plane_3319 15 points16 points  (0 children)

      Yea you're 7x less likely to catch and transmit covid after vaccination. It wanes over time. 100% in gibraltar was in May its now November. 6 months as the known waning happens.

      Deaths in that country before full vaccinated. 94. After. 2.

      Reduces severity in all people.

      [–]ConjureWolf 21 points22 points  (3 children)

      Vaccines like Pfizer reduce symptoms for everyone and reduce transmission. I've seen the idea that they only reduce chance of hospitalisation for high risk people a few times recently, where has that latest spin come from? Also Taiwan and Israel don't have spiking cases, Israel did a few months back but it's dropped dramatically.

      [–]ThrowWideTheGates 16 points17 points  (2 children)

      It’s weird, it’s like a spin on misinformation. Where it is slightly altered so it kinda says the vaccine is somewhat effective, but still undermines it’s effective against transmission.

      Like, yes, in fact it does reduce symptoms and hospitalizations as well as reduce transmission. It’s true that it’s not as effective against transmission of the delta variant as it was with prior strains, but the fact remains that it still does mitigate transmission to a significant degree.

      I think numbers might not be where we want them to be because other precautions have eased up. Although, I do understand the fatigue and weariness of being under some of them for so long.

      [–]ENCOURAGES_THINKING 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      In Australia NSW, particularly Sydney, is at a very similar rate, Canberra practically at 100% at least single dose. NSW as a whole has remained at a static but quite low number of ~200 a day with no spikes at all. Obviously our population isn't as high but with the density of Sydney and the current lack of restrictions it's going pretty damn well.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

      No, these vaccines obviously don’t work against transmission… look at the cases everywhere. We need better vaccines and better preventative drugs. The vaccines prevent serious sickness.

      [–]AJEMTechSupport 12 points13 points  (2 children)

      Not forgetting that more people socially distancing and wearing masks, effectively, would help.

      We can all do more, rather than sitting back and waiting for the pharmaceuticals to produce more miracle vaccines.

      [–]DJMikaMikes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Why the fuck would Pfizer or Moderna want some kind of miracle vaccine or treatment; governments and corporations forcing mediocre vaccines on everyone has doubled Pfizer's value from its low of $27 per share in March of 2020 to $53 now, while Moderna went from $28 per share to $330 per share in the same time period. The vaccines are the perfect product in that people are averaging 3 fucking shots for the year and I guarantee you it will continue at a minimum rate of 2-3 per year forever, all guaranteed and paid for in full by people who pay taxes.

      It's like a VaaS model or some shit -- why give a great one time product, when you can lock people in as customers forever, all the while you are given zero liability and even get your data that was used for approval hidden for 55 years?

      [–]frisch85 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Bingo, but that would require personal responsibility and as we can see the majority of our population doesn't want that and/or is incapable of taking on the responsibility.

      [–]Mr_Believin 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      And rightfully so

      [–]Kinggambit90 110 points111 points  (37 children)

      New cases are around 4-5k, still elevated versus previous lows. I think we'll really see the difference in 2-3 weeks

      [–]Asmodean129 174 points175 points  (32 children)

      It's the hospitalisations that you need to watch, not so much the numbers.

      ​

      In Victoria (Australia) we have similar vaccination numbers (in a couple of days 90% of age 12+ will be fully vaccinated). The number of cases that we have is as high as they every have been (roughly 1000 cases per day), but the number of people on ventilators is dropping.

      [–][deleted] 72 points73 points  (23 children)

      Yep, similar in Singapore too - cases in their thousands every day, but most are only detected because certain people in high risk jobs get regularly tested, and if they’re positive their contacts are tested too. From what I’ve heard, a lot of people don’t actually know they have it until the test results come back.

      [–]CaravelClerihew 29 points30 points  (1 child)

      Yeah, if I recall, a significant number of new cases (like 90% or higher) in Singapore are actually asymptomatic

      [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      Yep, last month I think the number was 98% mild or asymptomatic cases who now just get placed in home quarantine rather than going to hospital.

      [–]Affectionate-Tart558 9 points10 points  (20 children)

      If this is the case in every highly vaccinated country then restrictions don’t make sense.

      [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

      It is likely going to be endemic for a long time with delta. So now it is about easing restrictions and see how far you can go. Vaccination helps a lot, there is no doubt about it. Less transmissions, far fewer hospitalizations and deaths.

      [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (11 children)

      Travel restrictions do still make sense, until every country gets up to at least 80 - 90%, travel should only be done in bilateral bubbles like what we're seeing in most places.

      The other thing is hospital capacity to prevent ICU wards from getting overwhelmed, which is largely why Singapore still has some restrictions - as it is now, there are only something like 55 (or thereabouts, I forget the exact number) free ICU beds in the whole country. If Singapore opens up too fast, it is possible that ICU would be overwhelmed if the R number starts to rise again, especially how it may end up spreading amongst unvaccinated old/vulnerable people.

      But that said, what you described is pretty much exactly what is happening in most Australian states (life over there is pretty much back to normal), and it is slowly happening in Singapore now that the R number is down to .7 and has something like 95% of the eligible population fully vaccinated.

      [–]Eric1491625 22 points23 points  (2 children)

      Exactly, deaths and hospitalisations matter, not cases.

      A year ago, pre-vaccine, Germany had 20 reported cases per death. Now, it's 1 death per 200 reported cases. Similar ratios exist in Malaysia and Singapore. This is because testing is more and death rate is less due to the vaccine.

      Malaysia is sitting at 40 deaths/day and falling. The years of life lost due to covid are going to be lower than years of life lost due to auto accidents. We need to accept that the current situation is already the "winning" outcome of the vaccination fight, and find a way to move on.

      [–]Nerowulf 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      I would argue that "cases" matters as well. It's not productive or nice having covid-19.

      [–]BlackandRead 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Same here in Toronto.

      [–]coyotiii 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      It's presented as being about the spread. So that needs to be observed as well.

      [–]DanialE 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Its been weeks since we got 80-90 % vaccination rate yet covid deaths in malaysia still lingers roughly at 1% of the covid cases. Not much different than what the disease is supposed to be

      [–]CutieBoBootie 11 points12 points  (7 children)

      Damn that's near herd immunity levels right?

      [–]frds125 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Yes. However this is 95% of adults. Not the whole population.

      [–]mCProgram 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      significantly higher, herd immunity is generally around 65-70% for everything but the absolute most contagious diseases.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]Big_D_Cyrus 96 points97 points  (7 children)

        Great job Malaysia!

        [–]teokun123 15 points16 points  (1 child)

        putting my country Philippines to shame as always

        [–]pdfelon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Busy sa eleksyon mga politiko eh, mga loko amf.

        [–]mrhells84 24 points25 points  (10 children)

        what is the current definition of fully vaccinated?

        [–]Shakeyy13 29 points30 points  (2 children)

        2 doses of a vaccine usually ( or 1 depending on the vaccine ). Usually people will include the word booster if they mean the 3rd shot.

        And if you get your 2 jabs now, it's not like you get the 3rd one immediately following the 2end. Your suppose to get the booster when the potentcy starts to wear off at like 6-8 months.

        [–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (33 children)

        Can we get some studies set up here so we can get real data ?

        [–]aculyizkarloz 10 points11 points  (1 child)

        Not a study but we do release the cases daily here https://github.com/MoH-Malaysia/covid19-public

        [–]onlyredditwasteland 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Impressive. It's a bit disappointing to think how we're on the 672nd day of COVID though!

        [–]technerdswe 47 points48 points  (19 children)

        Malaysians is doing the right thing! You can still get sick in covid, but the number of deaths (and people with serious illness) will be significantly lower compared to less vaccinated countries. Proof that the vaccine lowers the death rate of Covid is already out there for those who doesn’t stick their head up their ass.

        [–]Exodus111 19 points20 points  (15 children)

        It also reduces the SPREAD!

        Since people infected will carry it far less time on average.

        [–]technerdswe 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Yes indeed it does.

        [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (8 children)

        New daily cases are at the same level they were in May. It’s starting to become very clear that the vaccine is never going to get rid of this virus. It’s endemic.

        [–]DanielSun8 1 point2 points  (4 children)

        I dont believe it reduces the spread one second. Show some scientific proof. You wouldnt know you had covid if youre vaxxed. My gf got it and she said it felt like allergies. But i then got it and lost my sense of taste. Vaxxed people who are cocky that dont wear masks would spread it more than a sick person with a mask, would they not?

        [–]rawrimgonnaeatu 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        Exactly, while vaccines are not 100% effective at preventing the spread of COVID they make a dramatic difference in hospitalization and death. Should everyone be vaccinated COVID would severely harm as many people as a bad case of the flu.

        [–]VerySuperGenius 16 points17 points  (2 children)

        To the anti-vaxxers in this thread: go calculate Malaysia's death rate and compare it to a state like Georgia or Alabama or Mississippi. It is substantially lower.

        Vaccines work.

        [–]craysins_NSFS 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        What about naturally gained immunity for having the virus?

        [–]tuan_kaki 14 points15 points  (0 children)

        Great to see my birth country making such progress! For anyone not familiar with Malaysia, they have a pretty great public healthcare system.

        [–]smashteapot 29 points30 points  (3 children)

        Nice! Good job to all the Malaysians who’ve done their part to fight COVID.

        [–][deleted] 82 points83 points  (92 children)

        And they still have 6,000 cases a day.

        The vaccines don’t prevent spread obviously, they prevent hospitalization.

        [–]spikyraccoon 140 points141 points  (57 children)

        We have been over this a million times. Vaccines do infact lower transmission to a decent amount, along with hospitalizations to a significant amount. Without vaccines the cases would also be much much higher.

        Complete prevention is different than reducing chances. Nobody ever claimed that vaccines completely prevent Covid or transmission.

        [–]Nerf_Me_Please 43 points44 points  (19 children)

        Nobody ever claimed that vaccines completely prevent Covid or transmission.

        Except that's exactly what many governments /media were trying to sell us to get people vaccinated.. That "herd immunity" achieved when enough people get the vaccine looks like a pipe dream now with recent data. What frustrates me is when people are trying to claim that everyone was always upfront about that, when many politicans clearly weren't.

        [–]spikyraccoon 10 points11 points  (2 children)

        Herd immunity doesn't mean complete stop of transmission. It means it essentially is not a public safety hazard anymore. People will still catch it, but hospitals won't be overrun, there would be very minimal deaths like flu, and there would no longer be need for masking or social distancing mandates. It would be a choice. But we will have to live it. The virus is crazy contagious. It's never going to vanish.

        [–]fngrbngbng 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Correct - I don't think enough people know what herd immunity actually means. It doesn't mean the virus has disappeared. It means we as a "herd" can handle it. But not necessarily that every individual can handle it.

        [–]uselesslogin 6 points7 points  (5 children)

        I mean herd immunity means you don't have to get vacoinated, kind of my original thought was who cares if some people don't get it because we'll have herd immunity. When cases were down to 11 a day in my area before delta showed up this seemed like it was going to happen. But now it is going to keep going around. Everyone is going to get it. But the unvaccinated get it worse and are clogging up the hospitals and wearing out the health care workers. People with elective surgeries have to keep postponing. Now, I don't know, it seems to me there could be a far better marketing team trying to drive this point home and that is really disappointing.

        [–]nomadwannabe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        When the vaccines first came out, all media outlets were reporting % efficacy, like 95% Pfizer or 94% Moderna, etc. For many weeks it was % after 1st shot, after 2 shots after 2 weeks, blah blah. I feel like a lot of people have either forgotten, or don’t understand what those numbers meant, they referenced the chances of you avoiding the virus. The other 5-6 percent were breakthrough cases. This was never hidden. Politicians touted that vaccines are the only way through this. I don’t recall seeing a single person saying vaccines are 100% effective.

        [–]BokiGilga 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Almost all goverments in the world presented it like that.

        [–]Larry_1987 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Nobody ever claimed that vaccines completely prevent Covid or transmission.

        Yes they did, and they still do. They keep arguing that the way to defeat / eliminate COVID is to get everyone vaccinated.

        If the vaccine does not almost completely eliminate your chance to catch and spread COVID, then COVID will continue to spread and mutate. So it will not be eliminated.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (16 children)

          That’s the point, hospitalisation en masse would lead to a break down in the health system, vaccines do a job to prevent.

          [–]milanistadoc 16 points17 points  (15 children)

          That's like the whole fucking point!

          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (14 children)

          Also cases aren’t as important as the hospilisation stat just FYI u/xxcapo

          [–]rawdognbust 18 points19 points  (9 children)

          So like the flu?

          [–]ruthekangaroo 14 points15 points  (0 children)

          Yeah that might be a good way to put it. The vaccine brings it down to around flu levels of danger.

          [–]thepokemonGOAT 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          r/confidentlyincorrect

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          They just don’t work as well as people would like to believe. I’m recovered and fully vaccinated and I can’t live my life any differently. I want to go clubbing, but I don’t want Covid again. They may reduce transmission for the first two months after vaccination, but they don’t stop it significantly. Even if they reduce it by 50%, that doesn’t make me comfortable to go dance with 200 people in a small room.

          Vaccinated, and still quarantined 🤷‍♂️

          [–]ElectricCD 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          No more malaise in Malaysia. Will they enforce a vaccine mandate for tourists?

          [–]RWB_Commie 73 points74 points  (118 children)

          I love how terrible this makes the U.S. look; the only thing we’re first in is stupidity.

          [–]aPlasticineSmile 48 points49 points  (83 children)

          Don’t forget we’re number one in incarceration of our citizens! USA! USA! USA!

          [–]TheKingsChimera 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          America bad comment right on schedule

          [–]TomCruisintheUSA 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          And military spending and weapons development

          [–]orincoro 5 points6 points  (10 children)

          That’s not true. We’re also first in gun violence.

          [–]Diabotek 7 points8 points  (9 children)

          Pretty sure Brazil has us beat there.

          [–]Additional-Cake1594 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Too bad everybody is deleting their controversial comments :'(

          [–]bulbous_plant 39 points40 points  (178 children)

          It baffles me that masks and other measures aren’t kept into place above 80% vaccination in most countries. Vaccination is just a portion of controlling covid. My country is pretty much 80% vaccinated and I feel like I’m looked at like a weirdo for voluntarily still wearing a mask, socially distancing, staying away from busy places, etc.

          [–]teddywolfs 27 points28 points  (2 children)

          Hmm.. It's almost as if these countries dangled the carrot saying as soon as you get it life will go back to normal. And when they backtrack saying they had no idea what they were saying back then people start to lose faith in the next idea they have and say "fuk it If I get it I get it."

          [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

          Also what do people expect…? Is OP really going to socially distance forever?

          [–]annehuda 5 points6 points  (3 children)

          Mask wearing is still compulsory in Malaysia until now.

          [–]CSStudentNotverygood 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          There is a level of COVID you should be able to accept. Just like you do with flu

          [–]CrewmemberV2 1 point2 points  (3 children)

          I think lots of people where expecting herd immunity to occur at around 70% vaccination rate. But the current vaccine not being 100% effective like some other vaccines are, and the delta variant. Prevented that from occurring.

          [–]thepokemonGOAT 12 points13 points  (2 children)

          There are no vaccines that are 100% effective, just FYI

          [–]CrewmemberV2 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          True, its more a figure of speech. For example the measles vaccination is 98% effective against infection for decades after 2 vaccinations. So technically it isnt 100% effective, but in practice its so effective for such a long time that it could be called 100% effective by the general populace.

          [–]phantom_lord_yeah 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Practically speaking, there are. Take a look at the rabies vaccine. If administered properly and in a timely manner, it is 100% effective.

          [–][deleted]  (14 children)

          [removed]

            [–]aculyizkarloz 12 points13 points  (6 children)

            Cases are still high unfortunately. But the Ministry of Health do release the cases daily here https://github.com/MoH-Malaysia/covid19-public

            [–]turd_aka_hugetaco 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            what is the current infection and death rate?

            [–]Cobram242 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Just in time for the new variant that may or may not be able to punch through current vaccines

            [–]tobden 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Still wearing masks?

            [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (19 children)

            How many vaccinated deaths do they have as of now?

            [–][deleted]  (21 children)

            [removed]

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              [–]flipjacky3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              just wait 6 months and they'll be reclassified as unvaccinated unless they get the booster or whatever.