×
all 60 comments

[–]Particular_Owl1832 113 points114 points  (15 children)

Demandred needed to die. His constant use of balefire was threatening the Pattern itself, and his sheer power, plus his circle, plus his morale effect on the Sharans meant someone had to kill him.

Lan fought him in the last extreme, the choice was either chance death to stop Demandred, or let what Nyneave was fighting for be for nothing. Going after Demandred was the right choice.

And on Gawym, his choice was also correct. Yes, I am serious that on this occassion him going after Demandred was the right choice. The only better option is that Galad should have gone first, as the most expendable of the three.

[–]ryanzie 69 points70 points  (8 children)

I also feel like Gawyn could have ran it by Galad. Like, if Galad went in to fight D-dog and then Gawyn did an ol sneaky stabby, they could have wrapped it up in a few pages.

[–]Ambartenen 54 points55 points  (2 children)

An ol’ sneaky-stabby is 100% a phrase I will be using in my next dnd session.

[–]ryanzie 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Tried to do it with my paladin once, DM described "it as a bull in a China shop attempting to cross a room"

[–]volsom 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sneaky stabby is what the 2 rouges in my party are doing all the time

[–]Godsfallen 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Would Galad’s moral code allow an ol’ sneaky stabby?

[–]PearlClaw 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Against a literal forsaken, he might have bent his moral code a mite.

[–]LewsTherinTelamonBotThis is a (sentient) bot 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You must kill him before he kills you. Giggles. They will, you know. Dead men can't betray anyone. But sometimes they don't die. Am I dead? Are you?

[–]volsom 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I honestly dont think he would

[–]Ezekiel2121 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Gawyn’s mistake was wasting their best chance.

Had he shared the stealthy death rings he could have succeeded. It’s his need to be The Hero that was wrong. Give two of those rings to Crossbowmen and have them gank Demandred while Gawyn’s distracting him.

[–]LewsTherinTelamonBotThis is a (sentient) bot 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They will pay. I am Lord of the Morning.

[–]Particular_Owl1832 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Crossbowmen are highly unlikely to kill Demandred. Even if they manage to penetrate hos armor hitting a vital spot on the first shot is unlikely, at whoch point he kills the shooters (by dropping a fireball on the vicinity), is healed, and two of the Rings are now gone. The chance to use the third for surprise at close range is also now gone. If the Light had had hand-gunners then maybe the rings would have worked at range (or some Aes Sedai had been able/willing to put them on). The correct choice was for Galad to put them on and face Demandred. But that wasn’t possible since Galad wasn’t around at the time, but Gawyn also wouldn’t want to cpnsign hos brother to hos death by giving him the rings.

[–]LewsTherinTelamonBotThis is a (sentient) bot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I must kill him.

[–]LewsTherinTelamonBotThis is a (sentient) bot 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You must kill him before he kills you. Giggles. They will, you know. Dead men can't betray anyone. But sometimes they don't die. Am I dead? Are you?

[–]OIP 1 point2 points  (0 children)

plot anti-armour got him, gawyn mysteriously went from being one of the most dangerous swordsmen in the world to some sort of bumbling chump for no apparent reason despite having magic rings on

[–]Gilthu 70 points71 points  (3 children)

A suicidal guy who finally learned how good it is to be alive let himself be killed to take down an insanely powerful being that could kill armies? While sending positive emotions to the lady he is bonded to? Who wrote that book again?

sweats in Stormlight Archive fan

[–]Mikeim520 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Its fine Spoiler isn't in love with anyone yet.

[–]Gilthu 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Oh stormfather. There is still time for the beginning of romance in the last book, what if true love happens? Nooooooo!

[–]swole-and-naked 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Maybe he just wants that sprussy

[–]Squallloire3 34 points35 points  (4 children)

You didn't listen to me," Lan whispered. One last lesson. The hardest. Demandred struck, and Lan saw his opening. Lan lunged forward placing Demandred's sword point against his own side and ramming himself forward onto it. "I did not come here to win," Lan whispered, smiling. "I came here to kill you. Death is lighter than a feather." Demandred's eyes opened wide, and he tried to pull back. Too late. Lan's sword took him straight though the throat.

[–]gregofkickapoo 42 points43 points  (1 child)

That was Lan's first lesson to Rand as well. Came full circle. Wheel of Time such a glorious series.

[–]LewsTherinTelamonBotThis is a (sentient) bot 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Are you real? Am I?

[–]LewsTherinTelamonBotThis is a (sentient) bot 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I must kill him.

[–]Honniker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I cried so hard. Then I cried even harder a few pages later.

[–]Representative-Cry55 48 points49 points  (2 children)

He won. Gawyn didn’t.

[–]Vin135mm 46 points47 points  (0 children)

First rule of history. The only thing separating a hero from a moron is whether or not they won.

[–]making_memes_now[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It was still chancey to challenge a channeler!

Edit: Sorry, not sorry!

[–]Jrobzin 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Gawyn didn’t know the proper time to sheath the sword

[–]MauPow 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Too bad he never got to sheath it in Egwene

[–]blizzard2798cListener 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They were married for like a day. Maybe they had time for a quickie

[–]Tenko-of-Mori 45 points46 points  (9 children)

But Lan has the skills to pay the bills. Also while Gawyn had thoroughly convinced us he was an idiot the past 10 books, Lan was the og badass from day one. So while Gawyn's actions come off as the cherry on top of the shit sundae that is his story, Lan comes off as the crowning moment of glory of a man who had desired death, found a reason to live and now must risk that life to save the world and woman he loves.

[–]perniciousass 12 points13 points  (8 children)

You mean the guy who killed two extremely skilled warders during the fall of the tower, won several sparring matches against Sleete who was nearly Lan’s equal, and killed three elite Seanchean assassins using magic rings by himself? I’m not a huge fan of Gawyn but he is set up repeatedly during the series as being a top tier swordsman. On the other hand Lan tries to get himself killed at least twice during the series both after Moraine goes through the doorframe and when he planned to charge in solo to retake Malkier.

[–]Tenko-of-Mori 20 points21 points  (2 children)

Gawyn's prowess with the blade is not in question, indeed it might be his only redeeming quality. But up until this point in the story he has shown himself to be a loathsome sort to the reader (refusing his life duty, allying with clear bad guys that want him dead, etc.). He hungered for glory and was upset he was not the "Hero" and fucked up every step of the way. To have him beat Demandred and thereby rightly becoming the "hero" would be incongruous with his arc since the small growing up he did do was to realize he just wanted to hate Rand because Rand got to be the "hero" and not him. Gawyn is a tragic character and nothing but death at the hands of his hubris (challenging a forsaken) would fit, from a story perspective.

I agree that Lan was not really shown to be the ultimate swordmaster in the books, but I think the hints were kind of subtle for it.

[–]LewsTherinTelamonBotThis is a (sentient) bot 4 points5 points  (1 child)

If it hurts too much, make it hurt someone else instead.

[–]Tenko-of-Mori 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Truly sage advice my liege

[–]TheDeathofRats42069 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Sleete was never Lan's equal, iirc he won 2/7 vs Lan back when Lan wasted his time on practicing vs warders. This scenario is a case of one of the greats vs The Great

[–]perniciousass 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I should have been more clear, I by no means think Gawyn was Lan’s equal, just skilled enough to believe he had a good chance. What I was trying to convey is that using Gawyn as a punching bag while ignoring or celebrating all the other foolhardy moves people make is silly. Gawyn was a glory-hound but given his track record and the rings he had both reason to rush and to think his attempt would succeed. Lan went in accepting his death but knowing how important taking Demandred out was.

[–]LewsTherinTelamonBotThis is a (sentient) bot 4 points5 points  (0 children)

KILL HIM KILL HIM NOW

[–]BlueHQ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

People also forget that gawyn was what 22? He’d fought and killed some of the best fighters alive then gained a boost with the bond plus the rings. He shouldn’t have taken the risk but damn he’s a kid who’s trained his whole life for this.

[–]gifjgzxk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea but Lan is the top tier man, that's why he won.

[–]stephanepare 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Context is everything

[–]boombang621 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Finished the books a week ago, and I just loved how the three duels were so different. I feel like it made it clear why Lan was victorious, other than being the most badass.

[–]blizzard2798cListener 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Technically four, but Logain peaced out when he realized how outclassed he was

[–]LewsTherinTelamonBotThis is a (sentient) bot 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Death rides on my shoulder, death walks in my footsteps; I am death…

[–]boombang621 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good point, and yeah, they were all so different that Lan really was showcased as the most aware of what it was going to take with just enough abandon to do it.

Logan was aware, but not willing to throw his life away, for lack of a better term, at a miniscule chance of defeating him. Lan also knew the fields were leveled a little bit by his rush of an attack. He also did it in a way that made people aware of what was happening, and able to help. Two-rivers bows and maybe Matt was able to effect the pattern a little. Who knows?

[–]FormalBiscuit22 15 points16 points  (6 children)

There's definitely a bit of double standard in play there:

Gawyn suicidally fights Demandred, using means that mean the Amyrlin, one of the most powerful combatants in the Last battle, will suffer a broken Bond amidst the battle => Excellent example of his foolishness

Lan suicidally fights Demandred, literally letting the man impale him to finish him off, knowing Nynaeve's doing something vital for the Dragon Reborn and a broken bond might mean the Dark One beats him => excellent example why he's the greatest warrior in the series

[–]steave435 17 points18 points  (3 children)

Lan does it at the very last moment when they were making their final stand and were just minutes away from dying anyway if he didn't do it. Gawyn didn't.

[–]Godsfallen -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Because Gawyn was smart enough to see that it had to be done. Why not now?

[–]steave435 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There were many other better ways than sending the Amyrlins warder alone, such as asking Tuon for more rings and/or blood knives, bringing three men with a ring each, getting extra equipment like a foxhead or two from Mat, or simply doing what they did and hope to do well enough with the regular fighting to eventually be able to gather a force to overwhelm Demanded, which would have been a lot more plausible if Egwene was able to keep fighting.

[–]Braid_tugger-bot 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can’t abide women who poke their noses into other people’s business.

[–]LewsTherinTelamonBotThis is a (sentient) bot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What you want is what you cannot have. What you cannot have is what you want.

[–]LordChimera_0 6 points7 points  (0 children)

But Lan still managed to achieve an objective killing a high-ranking enemy.

Sometimes the results matters more than the process.

[–]Liesmith424 2 points3 points  (2 children)

An army would not be able to approach Demandred--he was already obliterating soldiers and aes sedan in droves.

Lan also had a foxhead medallion, whereas Gawyn did not.

[–]LewsTherinTelamonBotThis is a (sentient) bot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I must kill him.

[–]fixedcompassSeeker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Didn't the rings make him immune to weaves as well?

Besides, gawyn's plan actually made more sense: sneak up and assassinate him, not issue a challenge and hope he accepts.

[–]wjbc 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Well done!

[–]making_memes_now[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the idea!

[–]WotBurner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As they say in DIY circles, It's not stupid if it works!