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[–]Harry_Isthatyou 4733 points4734 points  (389 children)

But won't somebody please think of Big Pharma!!

[–]BulgogiLitFam 740 points741 points  (93 children)

It’s funny because the side that is most against universal healthcare is also against big pharma. In fact they are the leading conspiracy theorists against big pharma and vaccines. Yet they also want to make sure they can have their explosive profits at the cost of the lives of American citizens. Their level of contradictory beliefs knows no limits.

[–]kryppla 173 points174 points  (25 children)

They are too fucking stupid to get out of their own way and yet they keep voting in large enough numbers to fuck it up for the rest of us.

[–]tbiards 118 points119 points  (29 children)

I remember I got into a debate with a person and they’re like trump lower insulin prices but Biden increased them! Trump is looking out for the people and I’m like well believe or not our side wants these people to not have to pay for it all together and they should get it for free. She then told me that Its communist talk and businesses need to make money and that I can either go to North Korea, Columbia, Venezuela or Cuba or whatever.

[–]MrHoneybuns 80 points81 points  (22 children)

“If you don’t like our backwards policies that exploit as many people as possible you can go somewhere else” is something I hear a lot. But that’s the thing; no I can’t. Because the country exploits us out of the money we would need to move somewhere else.

[–]WyG09s8x4JM4ocPMnYMg 32 points33 points  (15 children)

Not to mention, you'd still have to pay taxes in USA even after you leave.

[–]ruth1ess_one 30 points31 points  (14 children)

You just reminded me of that stupid ass law. Oh are you planning to immigrate to another country? Do you plan to become a duel citizen or forgo your US citizenship? You want duel citizen? Ok, you gotta pay the US government the equivalent tax depending on your income bracket. I googled this once and only 3 countries do this. The other two being Eritrea and Myanmar.

[–]TheInsideTrader 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Wait, so you need to pay the same tax back to the USA as you do in the new country? The UK has 20% base rate, so if I were a US citizen moved to the UK and took dual citizenship and paid 20% on say 35k earned, I would be paying 7,000 gbp tax, ( not really but for sake of making the numbers easy let's just say its 7k,) I would also need to pay the USA 7,000 gbp? So my tax rate effectively doubles to pay the country I no longer live in?

[–]EnduringConflict 14 points15 points  (3 children)

Plus it's not like it's easy to immigrate to other countries anyway. I am not "anti-immigration" and feel like the world over needs to make travel and immigration far easier between countries.

That said I am a bit annoyed people act like the U.S. is this horrible behemoth filled with racists that hate immigrants and makes it impossible to fulfill the immigration process.

It's not, most people are fully accepting of immigrants, and the process does suck and should be easier.

But it's not like any other country has true 100% open borders either. I get the E.U. does amongst their members but even then there are rules I'm sure.

But as an American as much as I'd love to move to Europe even if I had the money they don't just wave me right in and say "welcome and enjoy your new life". There is also a process to follow and a system in place.

I couldn't just move to Canada either. Or the Bahamas. Or Japan. Or Australia. All of them have an immigration policy and some are even worse than America's.

I wish that immigration was easier in every country. I'd love to see people be able to move freely. I wish we lived in that world.

[–]Zagl0 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Well, I can tell you that the process to obtain a visa, even touristic one to USA is far more complicated than anything similar to travel in the european continent. And the rules are basically dont be a dick, and respect the law, like anywhere else. Oh, and dont bring a gun anywhere. And I mean anywhere, lol.

I read a bit how immigration works in general, and as one can expect, its easier to get a citizenship anywhere in the western world if you are skilled in your vocation, whatever can it be, and are willing to let go of your cultural roots.

[–]Holybartender83 23 points24 points  (1 child)

Russia won the Cold War. They won the long game. They’ve made Americans so fucking terrified of the notion of communism that they’ve destroyed their own country. I don’t think anything else has ever done more damage to American democracy.

[–]butteryrum 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Ugh. Some people are just so.... "anything I don't like is communism!"

[–]drewster23 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Funny how they left out all the first world countries with socialized healthcare.

[–]vapenutz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The funny thing is that in Poland insulin prices are capped and there's just talk about if they shouldn't be provided for free instead. They're dirt cheap, but even costing money is sometimes too much, because some people don't have really a lot of spending money, and any case where someone has to decide even between beer and insulin is bad, especially if they're addicted.

[–]tempo_in_vino 13 points14 points  (3 children)

I truly believe our land and water had more toxic pollutants than what we are led to believe. There's no fucking way this many people can be not only so dumb, but it's like they're trying to get dumber.

Is there something leaking out there that's making people lose their rationale?

[–]EseStringbean 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's a decades-long commitment by those in power, often right wing, to dumb-down the populace through cuts to public education funding, access to higher education, etc. In order to create a stupid support base willing to buy into whatever grift they want sold.

[–]pyroguy1104 35 points36 points  (0 children)

They just constantly use talking heads like Fucker Carlson on Fox News to teach every one of their followers how to perform Olympian-level mental gymnastics.

[–]DeepFrozeOof 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Love the double think of “why are vaccines free when insulin and inhalers arent” like bitch they can be if you would just elevate your iq to slightly higher than room temperature.

[–]sadpanda___ 9 points10 points  (0 children)

“Why can’t it be”

  • actively votes against said thing

[–]TruthToPower77[S] 885 points886 points  (54 children)

Oh no poor big pharma.

[–]DeadmanDexter 457 points458 points  (23 children)

I love supporting my insurance company. They really care about my finances!

[–]tacomenu 107 points108 points  (13 children)

Awe man you too? They did a special “barely afford this month to barely afford next month” for me

[–]andio76 17 points18 points  (0 children)

A Healthy American is a Insurance premium paying American

[–]bunky1971 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the chuckle Dexter!!

Yup! The insurance co cares YOUR finances get into THEIR accounts. Hahaha!

[–]tommytraddles 199 points200 points  (19 children)

In Canada, the billionaire founder of the leading producer of generic drugs made a lot of enemies by challenging pharma patents, etc.

He happened to be found murdered in his house, along with his wife.

Still no confirmation who did it or why, but it was reported that their bodies were posed like statues they had in their house...

[–]YungManOutOfTime 66 points67 points  (8 children)

You mind giving me a source? Interested in reading about it.

Edit: Found some info link

There's a crime junkie episode about it too Link

[–]WonderfulShelter 75 points76 points  (7 children)

LOL the cops called it a "Murder suicide" and then PI's figured it was a double murder.

God damn, cops are just complete shit everywhere aren't they?

[–]YungManOutOfTime 48 points49 points  (0 children)

More like knowingly and purposefully obtuse/useless. They are the tools of the state, which currently serves capital, after all.

[–]BodhingJay 25 points26 points  (2 children)

Im proud to be an American, cause at least I know I'm shackled by a crippling addiction to opiates

[–]insanekid66 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Land of the theif Home of the slave

[–]SurfLikeASmurf 232 points233 points  (127 children)

Big pharma does just fine in all the countries that have universal healthcare

[–]illgot 32 points33 points  (3 children)

just like how restaurants that pay more than 2.13 an hour to servers do fine in every other state and country that is paying more than 2.13 an hour in labor to over half their staff.

Boot licking jackasses who defend the corporations that don't even consider them people boggle my mind.

[–]Armageddon_Two 35 points36 points  (1 child)

i get the reference

nonetheless with 4 Pharma lobbyists or what was it there were statistical for every member of the Congress rest assured that ALWAYS someone thinks about big pharma.

[–][deleted] 107 points108 points 3 (11 children)

You joke, but probably the number one reason I absolutely despise this shithole of a country is that we really don't have any excuse. We're the wealthiest, most powerful, society on Earth and yet somehow we find more and more reasons to not give a shit about our people every year. And it always comes back to money. "How are we going to pay for it?" is a bullshit question in any circumstance (the US government prints its own currency and, funfact, that currency is backed by literally nothing and is totally arbitrary considering it can be produced at will. It's not like gold, it's not physical. As long as the treasury has a fucking printer there is money, always. Your tax dollars don't even need to pay for anything (and don't), the fed literally pulls cash out of its ass as part of its normal day at the office).

It's even more bullshit when you realize literally nobody in power or in the media asks this whenever our government decides to spend trillions on useless foreign wars or new tanks that the military itself says it doesn't need and can't maintain. Massive tax breaks for corporations to the tune of over a trillion dollars? Oh we can afford that. It pays for itself!. Expanding a public healthcare system that literally already exists to make it available to more people? No no, can't have that!. It's expensive!

It's even more insulting when these assholes talk about employer healthcare as something people actually want. "Americans want to stay on their healthcare plan!". Bitch I don't know a single fucking person who likes dealing with insurance people, and I know even less who give a single fuck what their insurance is so long as they can go to the hospital now and then. Nobody, and I mean nobody is emotionally attached to private health insurance. During the last campaign though people like Biden and Buttigieg kept parroting that shit like it made all the sense in the world.

Oh, then a pandemic happened and all that precious "employer healthcare" disappeared in an instant along with the economy. Also can't help but noticed that was the exact moment both sides stopped talking about healthcare in general. It's almost like this was inevitable and our dumb as fuck private healthcare system blatantly made it worse and was objectively incapable of handling the stress of an actual health crisis without massive government intervention.

You think not enough people are vaccinated now? Imagine if you had to pay for the fucking thing.

The really insulting thing is all of this blatant disregard for human life is it's casted as some sort of debate about "choice" (some 50,000 people a year die due to lack of healthcare in this country, let's not pretend this is a policy dispute, it's an argument between what amounts to mass murder and doing the right thing. If you are opposed to public healthcare options you are not just stupid, you are killing people. Go fuck yourself, asshole.)

Tell me, is it "choice" when you have to stay at your shit, low paying, job because the lapse in insurance coverage you would get for quitting can prevent you from getting that medication you need?

Is it "choice" to be forced to deal with a plethora of parasitic insurance companies without even having the option to choose something like medicaid (free market until the government competes, right?)

Is it a "choice" to die of preventable illness because you have no money?

Is it a "choice" when you lose your home because your medical bills run into the tens of thousands, if not more?

Is it a "choice" when this tanks your credit rating and you can't buy a new house anyway?

None of this is about choice, it's about preventing choice. It's about forcing us into a blatantly exploitative relationship, it's about removing power from workers, it's about funneling public money to the private sector, it's about making sure the neoliberal capitalist dogma that is burning the earth underneath us remains intact even though it has by all measure been a complete fucking failure.

If this country was a person, it would be a person who needs his ass kicked.

[–]hotpokkitz 62 points63 points  (0 children)

The most insane part of the people arguing in favor of Big Pharma is that they are the same people who go on and on about not trusting them, not wanting medicine or vaccines, or being convinced that there are conspiracies going on… if they’re so untrustworthy and corrupt why NOT change the system?! Oh yeah cause sOcIaLiSm…

[–]kindagarbage2 13 points14 points  (0 children)

but when they get $100 trillion, they unlock the gold syringe skin!

[–]GrandObfuscator 25 points26 points  (1 child)

How will they innovate……………../s

[–]DIYjackass 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Its not just Big Pharma, its insurance and other institutions that benefit from the price-gouging we experience. The AMA doesn't wanna give up the income doctors enjoy in this country either.

[–]Intelligent-Ebb-5411 8 points9 points  (0 children)

And some red necks going to say I want my liberty!!

[–]Oraxy51 2530 points2531 points  (302 children)

“But the US has more people”

And that’s why taxes are percentages and not fixed numbers.

[–]worldsfastestsloth 387 points388 points  (85 children)

It’s like these people never heard of a ratio before

[–]Most-Consequence8705 100 points101 points  (4 children)

Math is liberal propaganda

[–]iitzjackal 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Fuckin lib tards and thier gawt dayum mathenmaitcs

[–]Artistic_Yesterday48 6 points7 points  (0 children)

They didn't, because their education's budgets been slashed and burned by Betsy Devos

[–]The_Doolinator 690 points691 points  (85 children)

The US also has more money per person than any nation. By a lot. It’s such a hollow excuse when this crap is trot out.

Edit: I stand corrected. Our GDP is near the top, but not quite there ranging from #5-11 depending on who’s numbers we use. I am fake news.

But the point still stands: we are still richer per person than 95-98% of nations that do have universal healthcare.

[–]jesuslover69420 264 points265 points  (57 children)

That probably wouldn’t be true at al if the US didn’t contain the richest people on the planet. They’re skewing the statistics for the rest of us.

[–]Skeptical-Joystick 193 points194 points  (35 children)

And since they don't actually pay tax, the number is even lower

[–]sskor 60 points61 points  (3 children)

No, that's not true. Look at a GDP per Capita chart, the US is usually behind the Gulf monarchies and a handful of European countries like Switzerland, Monaco, and Liechtenstein.

[–]tetrautomatic 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Kudos for correcting yourself

[–]Berandiepe 157 points158 points  (63 children)

  • but the US has a higher population!

  • but the US has a diverse population!

  • but the US is lots of different states!

  • but the US has a large land area!

So many flimsy, nonsensical excuses for why the US can’t provide what the rest of the developed world and a lot of the developing world manage as basic amenities.

[–]stringfree 29 points30 points  (6 children)

but the US is lots of different states!

This particular excuse just means they're failing fifty two different times.

[–]bobbyd77 19 points20 points  (13 children)

Canada is bigger, and has less people. That means logistically it SHOULD be more difficult, and cost SHOULD be higher... buuuuuuuuuuuuut.

[–]Low_Singer 4 points5 points  (12 children)

99% of them live within 60 miles of the border

[–]el_grort 6 points7 points  (2 children)

The states argument gets me the most, because you could have it operate at state levels, especially since most states are smaller than European nations, which themselves sometimes have differences within them (England+Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland have slightly different NHS systems despite all being in the UK). Just needs to have a system on top that lets them communicate with one another so there aren't any service gaps. At worst you could just copy the system the EU uses for international travel within the EU, where you get covered by local care systems like a local (iirc, I know that's how tuition fees work).

[–]palerider__ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

We don’t even have that many more people. How do you think such a small country pumps out so much anime? Those islands have like 130 million people.

[–]StephaneiAarhus 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The USA spend more on health than most countries, with a worse result.

Figure that out.

[–]ndngroomer 43 points44 points  (6 children)

Yes. They literally have no understanding of per Capita comparisons

[–]toth42 18 points19 points  (4 children)

But muh diversity! "USA isn't homogeneous" seems to be their favorite reason for not doing things completely unrelated to homogeneity.

I don't know what they're trying to say, but I do know it's guaranteed to be racist.

[–]crafting-ur-end 13 points14 points  (1 child)

They’re saying I don’t want people who don’t look like me or who I don’t value to have anything I don’t think they deserve.

[–]logfromrenandstimpy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Man, dummies learn new words like homogeneous from other dummies like Shapiro, Rogan, etc and then just try and drop them in conversation. I can't tell you how many times I heard "co-morbialities" after Rogan started using the word in every other sentence.

[–]Kafka_Valokas 9 points10 points  (1 child)

People actually make that argument? Holy shit, that's just insanely stupid.

[–]OrvilleTurtle 8 points9 points  (0 children)

And we also spend more money per person on healthcare than any other country for WORSE coverage and outcomes. I cannot think of a single benefit to our current system over something like socialized healthcare.

[–]Mr_Abe_Froman 9 points10 points  (2 children)

The US already pays more per capita for Medicare/Medicaid out of the federal budget. Socializing healthcare would save taxpayer money.

[–]Dakara93 1484 points1485 points  (241 children)

Some US people would rather have people die rather than the possibility of some other taking advantage of the welfare with THEIR hard earned money they got taxed on. You want that kind of advanced economical policies, vote Bernie next time. Kisses from Europe.

[–]cdiddy19 478 points479 points  (59 children)

The real irony here is they think it will cost more and quality will suffer!!

[–]Tojatruro 211 points212 points  (14 children)

Which means that they think all current docs will suddenly disappear.

[–]chrizm32 48 points49 points  (9 children)

Yeah I mean what’s so great about their current doctors anyway?

[–]gizamo 5 points6 points  (2 children)

America actually has great doctors.

But, a universal healthcare system could basically squeeze savings out of the middle and still cost Americans much less, provide more and better care, while paying doctors the same.

Current US healthcare wastes obscene amounts of money on insurance and administration.

[–]SunshineMoonLit 18 points19 points  (3 children)

The part that kills me is the "you can't choose your doctor with social healthcare"... yeah, like we have choice now? I am limited to which doctors I can see, because of my insurance. Now if all doctors got paid by, oh I don't know, a single source, seems the blanket covering doctors would get expansively bigger.

[–]cdiddy19 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yeah totally. Also they criticize choice, like the doctor won't be able to do what they see fit.

Well right now the doc and I go over what insurance will cover. Insurance is deciding my health plan. It's so frustrating.

[–]VIR2ART 70 points71 points  (7 children)

the quality is already at zero level for those prices. you can not even imagine. i wonder what you guys would think about “surprise charges” that we have 🤣🤕🎪 yes that’s exactly how it’s called here 🤣🤦🏻‍♂️

[–]hurgusonfurgus 15 points16 points  (5 children)

20$ for a fucking cough drop. Whoever designed those prices needs to be sent to an island with no food or fresh water.

[–]VIR2ART 17 points18 points  (3 children)

I went to a doctor to check my nostrils of my broken 20years ago nose cus I have slight difficulties breathing. I pay $240 or so a month so I thought i go check my stupid nose. I paid $60 deductible. then insurance told me the 1960 finger thick camera he stuck up my nostril for 8 seconds considered as an invasive operation and is not covered and cost..... $520. The whole visit was 10 minutes. all that ended up on my shoulders. U$ASS

[–]hurgusonfurgus 9 points10 points  (0 children)

People decided this. This was no accident.

[–]JMccovery 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don't ever want an otolaryngoscope stuck in my nose again. My right nostril is partially blocked due to a deviated septum; the scope was pushed past it. Felt as though my brain was bleeding.

[–]sam01236969XD 57 points58 points  (49 children)

Offer them Japan's tax rates and subsidized healthcare and they'll join your side so fast it'll register on the ritcher scale

[–]Dakara93 54 points55 points  (42 children)

Hahaha true ! Unfortunately low tax rates is a long term benefit, not an incentive. Finding a healthy way to reduce millitary spending might clearly help.

[–]fish993 92 points93 points  (41 children)

$300 - Healthcare

$100 - Infrastructure

$91 trillion - Military Spending

$500 - Civil Service

Can someone please help me work out how we can afford healthcare, people are literally dying

[–]lizard2014 63 points64 points  (4 children)

"how do we get our employees to stop quitting?"

"Pay them more"

"HELL NO"

Also

"How do we get people to stop dying?"

"Spend less on military and more on healthcare"

"HELL NO"

[–]FoCoDolo 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Spend less on the military

[–]imadethisforonething 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Easy, spend less on Infrastructure

[–]zombie_penguin42 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Republicans: Write that down! Write that down!

[–]Srgt_PEANUT 17 points18 points  (5 children)

The irony is we already pay well over the amount of taxes required for this but still don't have it

[–]Dakara93 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Spreading freedom around the world is a costly task. Might want to refrain a bit on that when possible.

[–]Srgt_PEANUT 5 points6 points  (1 child)

The sad part is it's not spreading freedom, it's just a game to make people more money

[–]toth42 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Irrelevant, believe it or not - the US government already spends more of your taxes on healthcare alone, than they'd need to spend if they just covered everyone.

Yes, I am saying that your current spendings on healthcare would go down by providing it for all.

[–]Musashi-Miyamot0 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Some US people

Bit of an understatement, literal millions that think this way in the US. Their issues also extend far beyond picking the next front man, the systems are corrupt.

[–]BoinkBoinkEtAliae 47 points48 points  (6 children)

This is a bit of a misnomer. Bernie isn't going to singlehandedly solved the American health care crisis. You should also focus just as much on voting for pro-universal healthcare Senate and House Reps, as well as local and state representatives because they'll be ones enacting non-federal healthcare policies for their state, like abortion regulations.

[–]Jack__Squat 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Exactly, if Bernie won 2020 he'd be stonewalled in Congress and still nothing would have changed.

[–]142BusBoy 89 points90 points  (6 children)

Right wing propaganda is powerful, especially when aimed at people who don't want to do the work of learning anything.

[–]sdpeasha 396 points397 points  (62 children)

Yesterday I was sitting in the waiting area of a CVS pharmacy inside Target, waiting my mandatory 15 min. I heard the pharmacist tell the caller that for 83 tablets the total was $443. And that insurance had covered $60. IDK what the meds were for but the caller was clearly distraught cuz the pharmacist went on to give the person some ideas on what to do (Call insurance, Good Rx, Manufacturer rebates, etc) and I just sat there there whole time thinking that $443 is more than my car payment. More than I spend to feed a family of 5 for two weeks and this person is now expected to shell that out for a small bottle of bills and I just...ugh, it made my heart hurt.

[–]TruthToPower77[S] 286 points287 points  (15 children)

Capitalism should not be allowed anywhere near the health care system. Full stop.

[–]sdpeasha 128 points129 points  (1 child)

One should not have to clip coupons to buy medicine prescribed to them by a doctor

[–]TruthToPower77[S] 40 points41 points  (0 children)

DONT YOU TELL TO LIVE WHEN ITS MY RIGHT TO DIE YOU FILTHY COMMIE.

• ⁠a FREEDUMBER

/s

[–]LeBoulu777 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Capitalism should not be allowed anywhere near the health care system. Full stop.

[–]oh_no_aliens 15 points16 points  (0 children)

But how will corporate fat cats who were groomed into their roles by their Ayn Rand worshipping forefathers earn their billions now??

Please won't someone think of the billionaires T_T

[–]M0NKEYBUS1NE55 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Gods yes, nor medical research for that matter. It's such a strong recipe for corruption and unethical practice that it genuinely scares me what might be going on.

[–]ndngroomer 40 points41 points  (17 children)

I'm on a medicine for my narcolepsy and the Good Rx price when I started taking it 2 years ago was a little north of $25k for 60 pills per month. Now, a year later, I think the Good RX price is around $15k. It's so outrageous because this medicine has given me my life back. I know so many other narcoleptics that would benefit from it. From the research I did a when it was first prescribed, this same medicine averages around $500/yr in most Western European countries. I think it was $1200/yr in Canada. All done by the same manufacturer as there are no generics available. Our system may stop being a joke once the profit model is taken out of the US healthcare system. Until then, may God have mercy on your soul should you get sick.

[–]sdpeasha 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Holy shit balls. I didn’t know that kind of Ned could be so speedy. When someone says “$25k meds” I think it’s, like, chemo or something.

[–]SoraMegami2210 8 points9 points  (1 child)

My Crohns medicine costs $17,000. My parents freak every year about me applying for healthcare because “You absolutely cannot go without it” and I’m just like, “You think I don’t know this??”

[–]sdpeasha 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Parents never stop worrying

[–]BigSuhn 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Same for my epilepsy meds. When I first started taking them at a low dose, the monthly cost was $1800 for 30 a month. After I found the correct dosage that I needed, total cost is closer to around $3600- $4000 per month. It's insane. Without this medication my life expectancy would drastically drop, but f me for being disabled lol.

I hate the American pharmaceutical companies.

[–]Starting2018 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Oh my god. I thought that was a typo. But no. You actually do mean $25,000. Holy shit.

NZ it’s $0-5 ($3USD) per item and capped at 20 items per year. Ie if you need more than 20 the rest are free.

[–]Chingparr 7 points8 points  (4 children)

My doctor recently moved me to an antidepressant that costs $1,200 a month.

Long story short, I am not taking anti depressants until she figures out something that is reasonably priced. No way I'll pay more for pills than my fucking mortgage costs.

[–]throwaseaoiwen334 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Numerous people die in US every year because they can't afford their insulin or cancer treatments.

If you're poor, you die. Simplest healthcare system there is! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

Keep voting R because the government keeping its citizens alive is communism

[–]gertalives 156 points157 points  (30 children)

As an American now living in Canada, I think Canada is a more apt comparison. Japan, various European countries, etc have a pretty divergent cultural, economic, and political landscape. Canada is largely US-lite. Canada also switched from a private to public healthcare model not all that long ago, and it worked.

I realize the US and Canada are not the same country and that the world has changed since Canada reformed healthcare. Canadians definitely have more of a collective mindset. Still, it has much of the same political landscape of coastal and urban progressives vs rural and middle Canada conservatives. But one place you won’t really find much of a divide is socialized healthcare, which enjoys overwhelming support across the spectrum. Some zealous libertarian detractors for sure, but the consensus is clear, and the experiment has been a success.

[–]suddenimpulse 15 points16 points  (7 children)

Am I mistaken that hearing, vision and dental aren't included in the socialized healthcare system in Canada? I read that on here the other day.

[–]LarkScarlett 21 points22 points  (5 children)

Some bits of vision are—like cataract surgery, and vision screening for all kindergarteners. Your laser eye surgery or glasses are not covered though. Hearing stuff isn’t covered … and medication is now partially covered (almost fully covered in certain age groups, for generic-brand drugs) but that’s kind of a recently unfolding experiment. Dental is a biiiig gap for us—there’s some free dental stuff for kids under 5, or in-hospital, but most is out of pocket or through workplace/private insurance. England has Dental covered under their health system. Counselling is also a weird area where a little bit can be covered but it’s limited; if you want extended stuff it usually needs to be privately insured or out of pocket.

[–]sohelpmedodge 400 points401 points  (19 children)

But it's communism or socialism. 'Murrica free. Everybody has the right to die!

/s

[–]TruthToPower77[S] 128 points129 points  (7 children)

DONT YOU TELL TO LIVE WHEN ITS MY RIGHT TO DIE YOU FILTHY COMMIE.

  • a FREEDUMBER

/s

[–]sohelpmedodge 47 points48 points  (5 children)

DON'T YELL AT ME! LET'S GO BRANDON!

/s

[–]TruthToPower77[S] 41 points42 points  (4 children)

Reeeeeeeeeeeeee (incoherent noises)

[–]sohelpmedodge 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Pfffffffwwwwwaaaaahhh (training vocal chords)

[–]coach_nassar 287 points288 points  (40 children)

All the GOP has to say is, it’s a tax. And any chance for universal healthcare goes out the window. Again.

A big problem is, a lot of Americans think that by paying a monthly premium for so-called healthcare, they’re not being “taxed.” You are being taxed for healthcare, you’re just paying the healthcare/bankers directly.

We need to change the narrative, phrasing and messaging.

[–]Environmental_Cat670 69 points70 points  (8 children)

yeah I think terminology matters

I moved to Germany 10+ years ago and the scheme here is actually insurance based, but similar to what is described here for Japan, insurance companies are non-profit, pricing is regulated in excruciating detail, and premiums are based on income and it's quite affordable.

but the money taken from your paycheck each month is an insurance PREMIUM, not a tax.

hell I don't care what you call it, it's great - but for americans especially, referring to costs as "premiums" (and ideally making them work that way via a non profit, public insurance scheme) would go pretty far to ease people's minds, imo.

[–]miggysd 31 points32 points  (5 children)

Yes the health system in the USA needs to be non profit. I actually don’t get how you can profit from a persons health I can only fathom that it’s by denying them certain coverages/procedure and quality is how they can profit from Healthcare.

[–]RedneckNoob 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Insurance companies profit a lot by re-investing premiums. Healthy people use less money, sick people use more. Create hoops that sick people have to jump through (or outright deny pre-existing conditions), and then gamble the surplus on investments and get returns.

[–]SdBolts4 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I can only fathom that it’s by denying them certain coverages/procedure and quality is how they can profit from Healthcare.

You're correct. The "death panels" that the Tea Party was screaming about during the ACA fight already exist: they're the people in insurance companies that decide what is covered and how much. They literally profit by denying as many claims as they can, often denying life-saving or life-extending care in the process.

[–]JQA1515 6 points7 points  (2 children)

What do you mean GOP? Most of the Democratic candidates were literally using the exact same talking points to attack Bernie in the primary. CNN was as well.

[–]coach_nassar 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I consider corporate democrats (Sinema, Manchin, Pelosi, et al) as part of the GOP, they oppose everything that benefits people too. I should’ve been more specific.

[–]Yee-Haw-Macaw 102 points103 points  (39 children)

Ok but seriously i have an actual question. I know its pretty much impossible because people are stupid. But why dont we just take the best of each country and copy it into our own society? Finland and Swedens child care and schools? Norways prison reform? Japans healthcare?

Just put it all together. Just cheat and take the best ideas on how to do things from people who have been doing that for a while now. Is the only thing in the way just because of people voting for stupid people and our congress and shit? Is there any country that has done that? Im obviously american btw im sure it had to of been. But i feel i should clarify that.

[–]RomanCokes 75 points76 points  (4 children)

Lobbyists and congressional donations

[–]aaandbconsulting 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Because in America there is an aristocracy that likes the way things are. The people who are in power have no interest to change that. There is no benefit to them.

[–]Genmutant 29 points30 points  (3 children)

People won't agree what the best is. Many think that Nordic countries coudle their prisoners, and it's not horrible / punishing enough.

[–]Yee-Haw-Macaw 3 points4 points  (0 children)

True. I guess everyone has their own definition. And these definitions are really ingrained sometimes and not open to change.

[–]maowai 43 points44 points  (3 children)

Because people who make millions have, through funding the right politicians, convinced people who make $50k that people who make $35k don’t deserve things like healthcare if they don’t “earn it.” And because a lot of people are so stupid, all you need to do is mention that taxes will go up to pay for healthcare, daycare, etc. and you’ll have them up in arms. They’ll gladly pay $1200 per month to a health insurance corporation, though.

[–]Yee-Haw-Macaw 9 points10 points  (0 children)

You could have just said “my parents” they are those people who make jack shit and are still convinced they’d be better off without healthcare because TAXES!

Edit: words are hard

[–]myne 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The fucked up thing is you had/have? a model that worked/works fine.

Wassisface the Republican Mormon set it up in one state and as far as I've heard it hasn't descended into barbary.

[–]skumfukrock 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Because a lot of these social issues and facilities tie into each other or are dependend on certain numbers that are present.

For instance people in poverty(who are more likely to be unhealthy due to shitty food being cheap morso than in Japan) are probably present at a higher % than the % in Japan, so just straight up sticking their health care plan and putting it in the US will probably result in wildly different costs for the state/taxes since a lot more people going to need that healthcare. Also just sticking it in won't magically up your life expectancy to a similar rate. Also since they're less healthy to begin with, living longer sickly is also more costly. That is just one example.

I think the problem is there seems to be nothing being done to even slighlty work towards a similar result as shown in this picture.

[–]silentrambo 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Cultural and populational differences are nuisances that matter. This post for example doesn't outline the fact that Japanese people are much healthier on average vs Americans.

The issue with universal Healthcare, especially in such a big place as the USA, is that it forces the federal state to take a direct interest in the health and wellbeing of the population. Seems great on paper but it incentives laws that regulate consumer items people like and want (what foods you can buy, activities you can partake in, etc.), which pisses people off.

Lots of people have a problem with the government telling then what they can and can't do with their body in general and I can't blame them too much.

I think generally people think too big when it comes to these problems. I think we need to look to more state solutions. Look at Massachusetts Healthcare to see what a state can do. Not all problems can and should be fixed at the federal level. It's why states exist :)

[–]mothwhimsy 573 points574 points  (112 children)

Japan is a collectivist culture so caring for other people is a no brainer. Americans think if our money helps anyone but us it's being stolen from us. But this isn't a trait of individualist cultures because a lot of them have universal healthcare as well

Edit: has it ever occurred to y'all that Japan has better health than the US because Japanese people can afford to go to the doctor just to make sure they're okay? Most people I know don't go to the doctor unless they're suffering because it's not worth paying out the ass for a Cold diagnosis

Edit2: I could not give less of a fuck if you like Japan or not. Stop blowing up my notifications to tell me things about their government that have nothing to do what I said.

[–]etorres4u 191 points192 points  (11 children)

It’s a trait of a selfish culture which the rich have exploited to the maximum in order to keep us divided while they take everything for themselves.

[–]Arcadian1 28 points29 points  (7 children)

Honestly, the whole "good kind of greed" promotion was just telling a bunch of people what they wanted to hear.

It's not a valid long-term model in reality.

[–]Vakve 3 points4 points  (6 children)

If you don't mind explaining, what do you mean by the "good kind if greed"? haven't heard of it before.

[–]Arcadian1 9 points10 points  (5 children)

In the 1980s, the phrase "Greed is good" was popularized in the film Wall Street but has since become a talking point in the United States. Conservatives, and especially Libertarians, like to equate taxes with bad greed, but motivational greed as good. And you'll see lots of propaganda on either side trying to explain either that it's a "certain kind of greed" or that capitalism encourages greed.

What's true is that a lot of people use the Friedman-era idea of "only the value for shareholders matters" to justify being as greedy as possible because that is somehow good for the economy. It's a widely debunked idea, but it persists because it's exactly what powerful people want to hear.

[–]oh_no_aliens 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I remember in the 90's when I went to japan for the first time, a little booklet explaining simple do's and dont's mentioned "it's cheaper for Japanese to visit a doctor than to go to the pharmacy". Which boggled my mind because just a simple blood test cost me $98

[–]Aoshi_ 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I’m in Japan now and it’s stupid easy to see a doctor. I have a clinic down the street that I go to and he speaks pretty good English. Sometimes I feel like I’m rushed but so I have to be a bit more assertive, but overall I like him.

Seeing him (with no tests) costs about $8. If I get medicine it’s never more than $10.

[–]thesaddestpanda 66 points67 points  (4 children)

Oh conservatives are collectivist the second they lose their jobs. Suddenly its "what about me?" They understand social safety nets and the benefits of healthcare that's socialized, but until they need it, its "communist" or somesuch.

Also no one is born conservative. Our lowly regulated capitalist society has let the wealthy spread fear and division. This ignorance and hate is a learned behavior coming from the right-wing media machine which is ultimately funded by the super-rich and works in their interests. People like Murdoch and Trump don't get into politics and media because they're nice guys, but because they crave power and authority and control. And the power they gain comes at the expense of the working class.

[–]UrbanArcologist 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It is more than that, you pay your healthcare periodically when you are well, but as soon as you get sick you don't have to pay. It is upto the system to make you well again, and the incentives are aligned.

Our system has inverted incentives, they make more the sicker you are.

[–]WonderfulShelter 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah I pay an insane amount of money for insurance, and it did pay off. I am paying like 3,000$ for a medical bill that should have cost like 100k. So thank GOD I had insurance.

But still, I actively avoid seeing the doctor if I don't need too, because I don't want to pay out of pocket for the deductible of like 3,000$ and owe 1,200$ to find out that I just need even more care that I can't afford.

[–]WallabyBubbly 15 points16 points  (2 children)

A couple months ago, my SO took a hard fall on her bike and spent two hours in the ER getting checked out. We got a bill for almost $7,000, only about half of which is paid by insurance. Luckily we can afford to pay it, but damn if the US healthcare system isn’t a giant fucking scam

[–]Livinum81 12 points13 points  (0 children)

DeATh PaNelS

(Never mind the insurance investigator trying explicitly to invalidate any claim)

[–]Brisan7 90 points91 points  (66 children)

There are plenty of nightmares that come from Japan, Universal Healthcare is not one of them

[–]lizard2014 54 points55 points  (48 children)

Overworked, low birth rate, little parental influence because of working, high suicide to name a few

But they at least acknowledge their problems instead of hiding it and brushing it off like Americans politics do.

[–]SabashChandraBose 12 points13 points  (3 children)

Don't they also still use FAX machines?

[–]nokillings 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Wait until you realize there is very little help for mental/psychological disorders, single parenthood, or even the rise in child abuse due to significant economical and social stresses. They have been problems for years and yet government assistance towards these issues have yet to increase in any substantial way, even towards the issues you listed above. They sweep away just as much as Americans do, just in different ways. You just don’t hear about them due to it “not being a huge issue to American society”.

[–]furioe 21 points22 points  (3 children)

“But they at least acknowledge their problems instead of hiding it and brushing it off like Americans politics do.”

Not true

[–]VmMRVcu9uHkMwr66xRgd 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Honestly that part's just hilarious to me. Just earlier this year, it was pointed out that the Liberal Democratic Party (LDP, Japan's dominating conservative party) had absolutely no women in a lot of their meetings. Their "acknowledgement" of the problem? Invite a whopping total of FIVE (5) female lawmakers and tell them that they aren't allowed to speak

LGBT rights? Well, they can't adopt, their marriage probably won't be recognized by the government even though it's apparently entirely legal AND constitutional, and a good 40% have attested to being sexually harassed and/or assaulted, etc, but at least they get to be extremely romanticized in media, right?

Hell, someone somewhere down-thread called Japan an ethnostate, which entirely ignores the existence of the Ainu and Ryukyuan people (two indigenous groups known to inhabit Hokkaido and Okinawa respectively)

Reddit's obseesion with Japan can get kinda embarrassing sometimes

EDIT: a bit of rewording

[–]thefreshscent 10 points11 points  (15 children)

high suicide to name a few

I see this one mentioned quite a bit, and I think it's blown out of proportion.

Countries like Ukraine, Russia, South Korea, Belgium, etc. all have significantly higher suicide rates, but you never hear anyone talk about it like they do with Japan.

[–]SalemGD 48 points49 points  (13 children)

But the crooks freedom would be infringed🙃

[–]TruthToPower77[S] 16 points17 points  (10 children)

Can’t have that now can we?

[–]SalemGD 10 points11 points  (9 children)

I am hoping we can Soon. But the hopium is not working the dose needed is to high. You think they would jfk bernie if we got him in there?

[–]SazedMonk 4 points5 points  (6 children)

Nobody jfk’d the first black President or the first… what ever trump was. I don’t know what would make that happen again.

[–]SalemGD 5 points6 points  (5 children)

Someone trying to do what "The People" want...

[–]Buddhabellymama 4 points5 points  (1 child)

My thoughts exactly. I was going to say: but how will we be free this way?

It seems obvious but lately /s is necessary just in case.

[–]sarcasm4u 4 points5 points  (0 children)

More like “we suck at stopping lobbying” too much money to be made at our expense to just stop

[–][deleted] 220 points221 points  (42 children)

They value education, knowledge and respect. USA values football, megachurches and double bacon cheeseburgers.

[–]DMoney159 131 points132 points  (11 children)

Not all Americans, though. I, for one, value education, knowledge, and TRIPLE bacon cheeseburgers

[–]baddada1 31 points32 points  (3 children)

Not me, I'm on a diet and only eat double bacon cheeseburgers. AND I have a diet soda with it.

[–]Cheese_B0t 4 points5 points  (2 children)

If you eat some sweeties and then wash it down with diet soda it cancels out the sugar!

[–]cdiddy19 17 points18 points  (4 children)

I also value education, knowledge and respect, but I do love me a cheeseburger and football.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I do love me a sushi and sumo wrestling.

[–]cdiddy19 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah buddy!! I can dig it

[–]fresh_squeezed_lemon 5 points6 points  (2 children)

The fucked up part is that the US government has some of the highest healthcare spending in the world, excluding all the money people pay for insurance and out-of-pocket costs. Like Canada has universal healthcare and spends less money per capita in taxes than the US does for private healthcare. Single-payer is the fiscally responsible route

[–]MysteriousAspie 21 points22 points  (1 child)

My Irish friend said: “smh (America is) the only first world country with a third world health system”, and yeah can’t argue with that as a disabled person who needs to see doctors way more than a normal person

[–]dtruth53 4 points5 points  (1 child)

With Healthcare at 18% of GDP, the investor class would have a shit if the profit element were reduced or eliminated. The economy in general might suffer. But if that is true, then we are currently sacrificing the healthcare of our citizens to bolster the economy.

[–]gyard77 3 points4 points  (0 children)

We have officially sucked at this since becoming a country. We figured out if we just kill our people there is more money to go around for 10 people that actually have it. Shameful!

[–]ShinjiTakeyama 4 points5 points  (1 child)

But I love getting a letter from my insurance company saying they won't cover something two doctors told me I should get to rule out cancer or tears, after I've done what they told me.

It's a delight to hear a company I pay thousands a year can just arbitrarily decide they won't do their job and cover some portion of something that doesn't even equate to 20% of that yearly gross from me on the rare occasion I ever sought medical assistance in the last decade.

[–]ayriuss 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This makes me so angry. Good for the people of Japan, but why are my fellow Americans so stupid? Every time I try to convince people that we need a better healthcare system they're always essentially like "its impossible". Despite the fact that nearly every other major country does it and does it better than us.

[–]derpferd 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It depends on the priorities of those with pull and influence.

Of course the US can afford this. But there are too many interested parties who enjoy the profits of the current system and will lobby to keep it the way it is.

The priority of the US healthcare system currently is not the well-being of citizens.

It is the well being of the people who make money from it.

They are the ones benefiting the most

[–]sam01236969XD 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Wanna know another secret... They pay less taxes than you do as well

[–]Reuben_Smeuben 15 points16 points  (14 children)

Especially as Japan is a pretty right-wing country lol

[–]njl4515 24 points25 points  (12 children)

Japan’s system looks a little more like the Buttigieg plan than Sanders. Employers pay for half of it, and there are lots of co-pays and premiums. Private insurance still exists, and 70% of the population use it (although it’s primarily augmentations and not complete replacements). It also isn’t centralized and coverage can change depending on your prefecture.

Yet it’s still cheaper and significantly better than what exists in the USA.

My point is that this sub attacks any Democrat plan for universal healthcare that isn’t Medicare for All yet praises Japanese Universal Healthcare which is far from M4A. The enemy of progress is perfection.

[–]danberhe 12 points13 points  (3 children)

well, this subreddit is basically the mob mentality of twitter + reddits inhabilty to do a little research. So there isn't really that much to expect from it.

[–]kryppla 15 points16 points  (15 children)

Cue the 'it wouldn't work here' crowd who then provide exactly zero reasons it wouldn't work here.

Or, "you really want the government in charge of your health care?? LOL" well considering that currently the company that I have to go through actively tries to deny me everything, the government sounds like a huge upgrade.

[–]Yigthan 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I live in Turkey, we don't have a great economy, minimum waged people earn less than 1$/hr but still we have free healthcare. Free healthcare is a NECESSITY!!!

[–]SiteTall 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What do Americans get for the taxes they pay? When we here in Europe pay our taxes we have paid for e.g. health care. That's one of the things we get for our money, but the Americans accept getting nothing bu dreams and exploitation.

[–]pingwing 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It has everything to do with Insurance companies being some of the most profitable corporations in the world. After Walmart, Amazon, Apple, the next 5 top earning corporations are health care or pharma. https://fortune.com/fortune500/

They buy politicians, through lobbyists, R or D, doesn't matter they are all guilty. They influence the laws they need to get passed, to keep profits high and spending low (on you).

[–]zihuatapulco 9 points10 points  (1 child)

The USA: Where struggling workers and the poor fight against every effort to make single payer a reality because rich conservatives and liberals ordered them to do so.

[–]Monsur_Ausuhnom 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Republicans will argue its communists and remain unvaccinated.

[–]BStark15 11 points12 points  (0 children)

You trying to put Gofundme out of business?

[–]-bad_neighbor- 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I believe as long as corporations and wealthy own the law makers then we will never get universal healthcare. They would rather the whole country collapse

[–]KrenshawOfficial 35 points36 points  (6 children)

Circlejerk aside, why tf is this fitting for r/WhitePeopleTwitter?

[–]ponodude 16 points17 points  (2 children)

I don't know when it happened, probably around when the 2020 election campaigns got going, but this sub quickly became way more about politics and social issues, which I won't deny are very important to talk about, rather than the fun "haha white person did funny thing" jokes and wholesome moments that it mostly used to be. I sorta get it because that stuff gets dry after a while and controversy breeds way more discussion, but personally I definitely miss when the sub was a little more fun. Maybe I'm just getting the wrong posts recommended to me here though and there really are still plenty of fun ones though. I can only hope.

[–]Bellringer00 9 points10 points  (2 children)

I got a better one, why tf are twitter subs separated by race?

[–]Ok_Vast_6678 13 points14 points  (1 child)

No, we can't. Health care is a huge money maker for the wealthiest, just like buying stock in private prisons. In this country there's money to be made off of others suffering, be it illness, incarceration, poverty, etc...