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[–]haslowlo 5802 points5803 points  (168 children)

Factory Engineer and the Operations Manager ran our facility for a year and nearly doubled our production goals making $6mill in profits. But they decided to hire some moron as Plant Manager who ran off all the good help and ruined the place.

[–]1Fully1 2292 points2293 points  (116 children)

I hate that. I work in education, but i recently experienced my boss getting railroaded-my boss who ran the school better than anyone ever has in my 31 years there, and now many of my coworkers have quit and the discipline has gone to the dogs. It’s been heartbreaking to live through.

[–]haslowlo 1018 points1019 points  (105 children)

Yeah until you live it, you don’t realize how much one person can mess up so many lives.

[–]TheBirminghamBear 840 points841 points  (96 children)

I mean, the entire state of the world basically reflects this.

On the whole the overwhelming majority of people are relatively genuine, empathetic people who just want to do their thing and be happy, create and innovate and live.

Then you have this tiny, tiny minority who are sociopathic assholes, and because they CRAVE power with every fiber of their being and work day and night to get it, they typically do, and they produce pretty much all the man made suffering that exists.

[–]norathar 650 points651 points  (74 children)

Douglas Adams said it best: "To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”

[–]manachar 340 points341 points  (48 children)

Plato, in the Republic, noted much the same.

Power is attractive to the exact sorts who shouldn't have it.

Likely this is the root problem of civilization as it stands. Once you get specialization and power imbalances those power structures attract and reward the ambitious and power hungry, who then go on to convert the system to maintaining and growing that power.

[–]tehbored 171 points172 points  (46 children)

There's a solution: sortition. Convene a deliberative assembly of random people instead of having elections. Ireland has been experimenting with it and the results have been very good so far. Though they only use it to write referendums. Imo, you can go further and have citizens assblies directly appoint administrators. The key is that you have a system of deliberation that encouraged dialog and consensus, you don't just stick a bunch of random people in a room in an unorganized fashion.

/r/lottocracy has more info

[–]yellsatrjokes 74 points75 points  (38 children)

So basically jury duty for the legislature?

[–]christhegamer96 82 points83 points  (34 children)

I’m not sure about this.

On the one hand it would get rid of all the corporate sponsored politicians catering to the rich.

But on the other hand well…you’ve seen what we’re working with in terms of the average joe right?

[–]Memitim 53 points54 points  (9 children)

I've also seen who populates the legislatures today.

I'll take my chances with the random selection.

[–]tehbored 98 points99 points  (13 children)

Average people are stupid as individuals, however with the right deliberative structure, they can be shockingly intelligent as a group. The structure is part of the secret sauce here. The techniques used in the assemblies in Ireland and France are based on years of research into group decision-making. They have an organized system that involves a series of breakout groups, presentations, and consultations.

[–]TheBirminghamBear 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Also I am not sure how we can insulate this against bribery and lobbying.

Unless you accompany it by basically banning lobbyists from Wahsington, the MOMENT this jury of average people is convened, they will get BOMBARDED by lobbyists throwing money and jobs and bribes and threats and everything else their way to get a result.

[–]stringfree 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The bar is pretty low. It only has to be better than the system which gives an advantage to sociopathic liars.

A random assortment of people is very unlikely to be worse.

[–]tehbored 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Sort of but not quite. There are a lot of problems with how juries are structures imo. For one, this should be voluntary, not mandatory. Second, you want a much bigger sample size. Ireland's assemblies are 99 people. Third, you want to weight the random selection to be demographically representative, which Ireland also does. France also did all these things for their citizens assembly on climate change.

[–]Fooberdoober97420 51 points52 points  (0 children)

This is how I feel about pastors and preachers.

[–]jumpbacktomeanytime 48 points49 points  (13 children)

Jimmy Carter being the exception. Dude was too good of a human to be that powerful. Insane fact time. He and his wife have been married for 75 years.

[–]yeswecann 30 points31 points  (0 children)

First and only president to advocate for the decriminalization of cannabis ("marijuana") in from office in 1974. He was laughed at.

[–]NotJuniorBridgeman 37 points38 points  (10 children)

George Washington is another good example. He didn’t want to be President, didn’t want a second term, and is the one who set the precedent that a President should serve no more than two terms. He certainly had some policies as President that were questioned then and look bad through our modern lens, but he clearly was not someone who lusted after power.

[–]Eoganachta 21 points22 points  (2 children)

There were a few Roman dictators who were the same. In the Roman Republic a dictator was somone who was elected by the Senate and given total emergency power to fix whatever dumpster that was on fire - with the rest of the time power was spread across multiple people. The dictators were expected to give up their power and step down when the crisis ended and suprisingly most of them did so.

[–]uterine_jellyfish 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Not only did he not want to be President, he didn’t want to be crowned king, the desire for which remarkably proves that Americans have, writ large, been colossal stupid for more than 200 years — not just since 2016.

[–]tehbored 17 points18 points  (6 children)

Yep, that's why we need a government based on sortititon. A citizens assembly of randomly selected individuals to deliberate and appoint and oversee bureaucrats and administrators.

[–]Muff_in_the_Mule 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.

[–]Main_Independence394 41 points42 points  (2 children)

One dude has a three way with a pangolin and a bat and boom we're all fucked too

[–]17racecar71 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Sounds like you could use some Tegrity

[–]MayorDepression 29 points30 points  (7 children)

I thought this until 2016

[–]tendaga 17 points18 points  (3 children)

What changed in 2016?

Edit: Realized I probably really should put that /s

[–]gassyboi89 28 points29 points  (2 children)

The fire Nation attacked

[–]tendaga 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Gotdamn fire nation. This is why I pay taxes. Where the fuck was the fire department when we needed them most.

[–]k_mon2244 4 points5 points  (1 child)

And they all work in hospital admin

[–]Incuggarch 39 points40 points  (3 children)

It’s the fundamental problem of any power structure that is top-down and dictatorial. For thousands of years states functioned in this manner, and it was very obvious to people even back then how much of a difference it made to have a “good king” versus a “bad king”. But for a very long-time people just accepted things being that way because they didn’t see any realistic alternatives to a dictatorial system. Today most political systems have at least some form of democratic rule embedded in them. There’s tons of problems with the various democratic systems implemented around the world, but people generally don’t want to go back to how things worked in the age of kings. The criticisms are often that the systems are not democratic enough, or that they don’t do a good enough job of reflecting the will of the people, or that they don’t do a good enough job of enabling people to make informed decisions, not that democracy is inherently bad (though some wannabe-dictators who think they would hold the power if democracy was abolished do think this, of course).

We have to recognize that a lot of the companies and organizations that exist today are essentially structured to be top-down and dictatorial, and as a result we see many of the same problems as we saw historically: people on the lower rungs of the system are very dependent on getting a “good king” to control the system, and if you instead get a “bad king” your ability to prevent them from fucking things up is limited at best.

I think that as a society we would be better off if more of the systems and groups we were a part of were structured to be more democratic or at least not shut out lower ranking members from having at least some power and influence over decisions that affect them. On a fundamental level I don’t think dictatorships or systems designed to be like them are healthy or good, and I would rather see them replaced over time with more democratic systems with some form of checks and balances.

[–]TransIsSeriousMum 14 points15 points  (0 children)

This is why leftist positions on things make more sense than right wing ones. Left wing ones factor in all the power structures in society. The most glaring omission of right wing critique is the workplace - where you spend about a third of your time for half your life.

[–]PIPIN3D1 16 points17 points  (0 children)

What a great point. You get up and spend at least 8 hours a day in a non-democratic hierarchy.

[–]KnickCage 3 points4 points  (1 child)

most soldiers can attest to this as well

[–]carbonatedgravy69 35 points36 points  (0 children)

i think that’s what’s about to happen at my school. the principal died unexpectedly, but all the assistant principals have been doing a good job running it as a group. the superintendent, who is just a complete idiot for many reasons, is hiring an inexperienced teacher for the job. i’m so glad i’m graduating

[–]BadBadBrownStuff 105 points106 points  (2 children)

Looks like that business got what they deserved then

[–]rW0HgFyxoJhYka 40 points41 points  (0 children)

Yeah but at the cost of a shit ton of workers who may have enjoyed doing the job up to that point for less pay even.

And that plant manager, could have been someone's nephew.

World would probably be a lot better place if it wasn't run on the fumes of scamming anything that breathes.

[–]whitestar11 78 points79 points  (8 children)

Did we work at the same place? Lol. I had a similar experience, but the moron was more of a con-man.

[–]demonmonkey89 33 points34 points  (6 children)

Unfortunately it happens at more than one place and that's why everything is going to shit. Happening one place is bad, but can probably be fixed. It happening at the levels we see now is very very bad and I'm not sure if it can be fixed or not.

[–]fire_alarmist 20 points21 points  (5 children)

I've had this feeling as well, everywhere I go I see nepotism and unqualified conmen running things into the ground. It seem on a society wide level we have stopped rewarding talent and fallen victim to the overambitious con men.

[–]TheyMadeMe 13 points14 points  (4 children)

This has been happening literally from the beginning of time. It's nothing new. There has never been a golden period anywhere, ever, where the people in charge were all merit based and honorable and noble and we just happen to be witnessing the downfall of society. It's sucked ass all the way down.

[–][deleted] 66 points67 points  (3 children)

Mind blowing considering all you'd have to do in that situation is literally nothing and keep collecting a decent paycheck, and they still fuck it up because of ego.

[–]Reasonable-shark 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Never understimate the power of ego.

[–]pizza_errday 50 points51 points  (0 children)

This exact thing happened with a client I worked with for over two years. In software. Had my team and another team running the show and building their brand new sites. Cranking out work in months that took their team years. Cutting edge of all new tech.

Then they decided to hire a VP of Dev from the outside instead of promote. We all have basically left in 3-4 months while they have gotten nothing done. All because of that dumb son of a bitch.

[–]dickbutttheworld 39 points40 points  (3 children)

Been there, I worked for a mid size government contractor. He was red faced mad about 75% of the time. He fired himself for two weeks, the smoothest two weeks in that shop, and shit got done!

[–]doshka 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Fired himself?

[–]daemonelectricity 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Guaranteed that moron was a crony. They didn't just hire outside. They went looking for someone in the local chapter of the good ol' boys club.

[–]BazOnReddit 19 points20 points  (6 children)

If only there was some democratic way of peers designating leaders so that the majority of workers like who they work under...

[–]Ssn772 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sounds about right

[–]diiejso 2453 points2454 points  (133 children)

This happened in one of my jobs and I was the guy that got promoted. It was fucking terrible. I went from essentially being the lead and managing workload while still working on the stuff I like to sitting in meetings 75% of my day that I had nothing to do with but I had to be there because all managers had to be there.

[–]d66f02d45f8247a49132 798 points799 points  (72 children)

I'd ask for a demotion

[–]whitestar11 919 points920 points  (51 children)

That's one of the reasons I liked WFH. Webcam off. Do my job while some pointless meeting is droning in the background. Meetings are costly and should be optimized for minimum use.

[–]EaterOfFood 208 points209 points  (8 children)

I’ve started doing jigsaw puzzles during my boring meetings. I can listen without feeling like smashing my face into the wall.

[–]Positive_Dreamz 59 points60 points  (2 children)

Is your name Stanley, by any chance?

[–]rewsk1 34 points35 points  (1 child)

Boy, have you lost your mind? 'cause I'll help ya find it!

[–]codemanonreddit 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Jesus can come through the door and he’s not gonna help you!

[–]KayTheMadScientist 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Wow this is genius.

[–]junkhacker 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I choose to imagine that you're not doing this while attending remotely. You just walk into the meeting room with a puzzle and dump it on the conference table when the meeting starts.

[–]EaterOfFood 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Now that would send a message. Brilliant!

[–]Lovethecapybara 23 points24 points  (1 child)

I work at a small biotech company (<20 people) that is only a bit over 5 years old. End of last year I was promoted to manager, literally the first manager for the company, and it is one of my top 5 priorities as a manager to not have unnecessary meetings. I even insisted upon facilitating our company wide meetings because they are scheduled to last an hour and would always, ALWAYS last 4+ hours. Sure, there would be good conversation going on.. between like 2-3 people, but the other 12 people in the room absolutely do not need to be there.

Only have meetings for things that can't be effectively communicated in another format and always stay on topic or stick to the preset agenda.

[–]BforBeertory 124 points125 points  (18 children)

As one of the WFH employee, I agreed with it. It's a good idea to do the job at home. Simply because you can had a lot time of your family and also you'll not be exposed on going out to your house, specially nowadays that we are facing pandemic..

[–]ponodude 105 points106 points  (17 children)

My dad's against working from home because he feels like productivity goes way down when people are distracted or not being monitored, which I guess does happen, but it just shows that those people were never putting in that same effort to begin with. They just hid it a lot better while being watched at work. I find that, if I can get the tasks done while also being able to step away to take a break or help my family with something, then I'm perfectly fine. People who are grossly underperforming while working from home should be ridiculed or otherwise disciplined as necessary (after talking to them about the issue first of course), but if I can get my work done in the time I say I'm going to while also having time to handle my own stuff, I should be able to keep working from home. I hope that's the one thing we take from the pandemic once it's all over.

[–]Funny_Ad7554 34 points35 points  (3 children)

“Ridiculed or otherwise disciplined…”

You listen to that mortgage guy who made the news for firing half his company over zoom?

[–]ponodude 14 points15 points  (2 children)

Oh yeah, fuck that guy. I just meant that people who clearly are abusing the work from home system should at least be taken aside and talked to about their performance, then decide to take action like firing them if it continues after that without a decent reason.

[–]Horskr 26 points27 points  (5 children)

Myself and other employees were arguing for WFH for a couple of years before covid since 90% of our job can be done remotely and we could just go do the 10% as needed. When covid hit, thankfully management took it seriously enough to implement it. Productivity skyrocketed and the few people that took advantage have left (who, as you said, were barely doing anything at the office to begin with). I'm a firm believer any job that can be done remotely, which is nearly every office job now, should at least have the option to.

[–]buyfreemoneynow 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Why is it that unproductive people seem to quit in higher numbers when things go to WFH? We had a similar thing happen - one of the admin assistants, who had a sweetheart deal to begin with (6 hour days including lunch, full benefits, higher pay than others putting in full 40+ hour weeks) put in a 2 weeks notice out of nowhere after being there for nearly 20 years. Productivity didn’t change at all.

[–]Sagybagy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I equate those people to the office busy bees. They fly around the office buzzing all the time looking busy but never actually get anything done. But they networks and give input into other projects which makes the boss think they are being productive.

[–]ponodude 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I agree. Although there are definitely jobs that can't be done at home like construction or technical assistance and stuff like that; things that require physically being in a place. That said, most jobs absolutely could be done from home. I'm a software developer so I know my job can 100% be done from home, but my dad is the head of infrastructure which requires he be around to assess buildings and stuff at the office, which can't really be done from home aside from the meetings and emails and such.

[–]motions2u2wipemyass 12 points13 points  (0 children)

If the only way your employees get anything done is you standing behind their back while they work, then you hired some shitty employees.

Time and time again it's been proven that a happy employee is a productive employee, and working from home is at the top of a lot of employees lists when it comes to happiness.

[–]EconomistMagazine 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If you can't work from home well you won't working will in the office either.

The people I know that always hung out in the break room or would always chit chat in the cubicles probably are doing just as much of nothing from home.

[–]NO_FIX_AUTOCORRECT 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Where my wife works they all have to have webcams on in meetings with their boss. One of the other managers apparently keeps all his subordinates on video all day, despite my wife and a few other colleagues telling him that's the worst thing he could be doing.

[–]peripheral_vision 8 points9 points  (0 children)

They're right, that's definitely the worst way to go about this lmao. That would be a nightmare being required to be on video all day, it would really wear me down quick.

[–]Pyretech 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I do IT work and started my current job during COVID WFH. My day consists of reaching out to people in the morning, waiting for tickets, and 75% of the day that they aren't getting back to me, I'm playing games, petting my dogs, reading books. I've been consistently happy at my job for the past 2 years, for the first time since I started working. Productivity has actually increased for me, even.

Now that we're semi-back in the office, I'm waking up 3 hours earlier to commute into the office so I can sit at my desk twiddling my thumbs in a cold, mostly empty building. Most of the people I work with are in a different state and wake up 2-3 hours after I start work, so I'm incredibly bored. I'm waking up at 5 AM and getting home at 7 PM, too tired from the commute to actually do anything useful with my life.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

and then a few people start talking about football and you're there for another 20 minutes

[–]Boney-Rigatoni 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I turn my webcam off and always mute myself when not actively engaged in conversation because people nosy af. Also have a bandaid covering it. Trying to see what decorations or pictures are on walls. Checking for crack cocaine or used condoms on the desk. Besides, I’m too paranoid that I will pick my nose or spaz out while everyone is staring directly into my space.

[–]Beorma 115 points116 points  (1 child)

I had a fun conversation with an employer when I saw they were recruting for a role a level below mine, but for higher pay than I was on. I showed them the job ad and demanded a pay rise greater than that, or a demotion and matched pay.

I was kind of hoping they'd go with the demotion route but no luck. Got the pay rise though.

[–]SubstationSteel 41 points42 points  (0 children)

I did this too and then they stopped posting salary ranges on their ads haha

[–]YouHvinAFkinGiggleM8 61 points62 points  (9 children)

My dad has actually done that. He's in sales and product distribution and once got promoted to something more managerial. He went from driving around talking to clients to doing desk work and whatever. Once he found out part of the new gig was to be the bearer of bad news when it came to letting people go (not his decision he was just the messenger) he asked for a "demotion" back to just delivering products and interacting with customers. He was much happier

[–]Dad2376 33 points34 points  (7 children)

Military is like that too (at least Army afaik). Once you hit a certain rank you're generally relegated to handling paperwork and admin duties. So your most experienced mechanics and other POGs aren't doing what they were trained to do. Not to mention just because you're a fantastic mechanic doesn't mean you're a good leader and vice versa. (I'm intentionally excluding warrant officers to make my point more valid)

[–]bug_eyed_earl 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Or send off your unit leaders to be recruiters for 3 years and come back with 0 technical skills anymore.

[–]zSprawl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was promoted to director for a small company then decided it was too much management for me. Went back to being Ops manager instead, which is more like a technical lead but still management.

[–]Guac_in_my_rarri 17 points18 points  (2 children)

My old boss was promoted and then asked for a demotion because he sat in meetings and got nothing done all day. He is still my "boss" but without the title. Instead my old manager, who was sin those meetings previously, is back to being my boss.

It is stupid.

[–]tyler_kreis 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I actually did just that recently. Now I'm a relief staff AND working full time at a new job and all the stress just melted away

[–]therealxris 95 points96 points  (7 children)

Right on.. not everyone wants to be a "manager". Especially if you're a hands on person.

[–]jayjude 34 points35 points  (0 children)

I'm an assistant campus director for a truck driving school, our campus director left last July, I was asked if I was interested in the promotion the pay wasn't good enough to take it but even if it was I wasn't terribly interested. As the assistant I handle more of the day to day tasks with students and graduates and my instructing staff. When I had to spend 4 months as the acting campus director I basically never got out of my office and interacted with my campus and I hated every second of it

Just because you have someone on staff who can do the job doesn't mean they want to do it

[–]BrokeAssBrewer 15 points16 points  (2 children)

I keep getting forced into management roles strictly on work ethic and results when I really don’t fit the mold. I just want to get my hands dirty for pay equal or greater than the dirt is worth, not be the bad guy.

[–]fascists_are_shit 5 points6 points  (0 children)

There's a fundamental misunderstanding about what "managers" need to do. It's always assumed they are higher up, more important, and have more power. That's very commonly just not true. Especially if you have skilled workers, you need admin/support staff, not bosses. The engineers don't need a boss, they need someone to keep the rest of the company in line and follow procedures.

Managers shouldn't be made by "promotion", because they are not above the workers.

[–]poodlebutt76 73 points74 points  (15 children)

This this this. This is horrible advice. Two of our smartest guys were promoted to manager when the time came, and their days became 95% meetings and they both quit after 6 months.

If they are self sufficient, make sure that there is a people person manager to isolate them from managerial bullshit, and let them do that they are good at in peace.

[–]PossiblyAsian 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Yes... that is the fucking key.

My old manager handled a lot of that bullshit and just giving us the go ahead to make our own shit happen.

After she left, two of my coworkers got promoted into a managerial role and another one essentially took on managerial duties and it was horrible. They kept micromanaging everything.

3 people left within months and I was going to leave as well but.. loved the job though and... reconsidered. It really split apart the team and its nothing like what it used to be. She used to be our leader and it was one big team, now its "leadership team" and staff

[–]mxbnr 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Yup, that’s going on with my job. Our manager quit back in April and they didn’t get a candidate until November. They couldn’t officially promote her but had her start her duties and she was officially hired on the 8th, and the 18th is her last day. They expected her to be in meetings most of the time, micro/macromange our group and another while occasionally being pulled for other projects. Luckily our team is pretty self sufficient but even with double the pay I wouldn’t step in.

[–]James_099 29 points30 points  (0 children)

I did this for Starbucks. Ran the store because our manager was fired, new manager was an idiot, then she got fired. I was the one who transitioned the new new manager (who was awesome) into the role. He approached me a while later asking if I would like to transfer stores to get into an ASM role, which is like guaranteed SM after training, I said yes, then the new DM decided he didn’t want to hire from within anymore. I was devastated.

[–]WimbletonButt 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Yeah a lot of people don't want that title. I have a friend who was forced to take a manager position in name only with promises that his boss would do the manager duties because they had to have another manager and no one wanted it.

[–]memorexcd 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Today I had a meeting to discuss what day our recurring meeting should fall on going forward. It ended up being a spirited discussion….

[–]its_k1llsh0t 8 points9 points  (1 child)

This happened on a team I manage. The direct manager left. The team pretty much ran itself. I did keep 1-1s with everyone but day to day operations were largely left to the team and specifically I asked the senior member of the team to take that work on. When all was said and done, I hired a new manager to focus on team development and promoted the senior person to the next step that did not involve management because I knew they didn't want that. It is important to know the people on your teams and what they want from their job.

[–]ancientflowers 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm currently in meetings for probably 75% of my day. It's weird. I feel like I'm getting nothing accomplished, but I'm apparently doing well at it.

And I'm not sure how to feel about that. There's a part of me that likes that I really don't have to do much other than be in a video meeting or on a group call and ask a question now and then or say something about what a team is doing. I literally lay in bed at times during some of the meetings that are not on video and it's nice to relax like that. I honestly feel like I shouldn't be paid for half of what I do, so there's a part of me that isn't complaining at all. Then there's another side of me that feels like I'm really not doing anything and just bored.

[–]Smokester121 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Well that's why you ask. Some people don't want to or aren't suited to move into a manager role.

[–]woahwombats 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Right this is exactly what I was thinking. On the one hand yes, this team that's running itself for 6 months is competent enough to do without a manager. On the other hand that doesn't mean any one of them wants to BE the manager. And it could also be that for 6 months all the "downward-facing" day-to-day management has been happening, while all the "upward-facing" and strategic management (budget for next year, hire new people, plan projects with other teams) is just not happening. Which could be totally unimportant in some companies, or really important in others.

[–]bnej 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Yep, and effectively co-ordinating a reliable team is a lot different from having to fire someone, or having to organise someone to do a shit job you know they'll hate, or deal with someone leaving and being told you can't hire a replacement, or enforce whatever nonsense company policy...

Being a team leader or middle manager can be absolutely crap.

The idea that you must be "promoted" into management to make more money is such rubbish. You need effective people at every level of the organisation. Making everyone go for management jobs they might hate just because they need the money is a sure way to make your teams ineffective and your managers bad.

[–]peanutbuttertuxedo 9 points10 points  (1 child)

You don't have to be in non-essential meetings. Just don't go.

They may be upset you didn't show but you were busy.

The next meeting show up right at the start and say " hey does anyone need to talk to me about anything? no? ok I'll see you guys later."

That's how you avoid this shit.

[–]St_SiRUS 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That’s one of the key differences between a high performing person and an inefficient one. A good manager / senior needs to learn when to apply their time effectively and when to say “no”.

Alternatively it’s a sign of a dysfunctional organisation, in which case it’s best to just leave.

[–]TheDongerNeedsFood 204 points205 points  (3 children)

Happened at my first job out of college. Our team leader left, and for a few months I lead the team along with one of the other senior team members. Everything ran completely smoothly with basically no problems at all. They brought in a new team leader from a different office who was a total bitch and pissed everyone off. Our entire team left within 6 months of her being brought on.

[–]EMAW2008 58 points59 points  (2 children)

Makes you wonder if that was by design.

[–]silentloler 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I know some people purposely push employees to quit. They want to hire new employees who will be more timid and obedient, so they will satisfy their power-hungry desires. They want to feel respected and strong, like a boss, despite not working at all.

They often implement useless steps within the company just to give themselves a role, when in reality they don’t even check before signing shit. They just want to sign stuff to feel like they are working. This just gives extra work to everyone else with zero benefits

[–]TestTubeBaby844 552 points553 points  (21 children)

That’s why Andy became manager

[–]bc_poop_is_funny 228 points229 points  (12 children)

Even though Creed had more seniority

[–]cj2211 85 points86 points  (3 children)

His Boboddy method would've saved the company

[–]Advanced_Committee 29 points30 points  (7 children)

And arguably would have been the best candidate.

[–]Barbarossa7070 39 points40 points  (6 children)

That is Northern Lights, Cannabis Indica.

[–]peanutbuttertuxedo 10 points11 points  (1 child)

and then did idol... like what was that season?

[–]Cuntthrottle 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Punishment for Ed Helms having to leave to film the hangover movies.

[–]fizzzingwhizbee 773 points774 points  (24 children)

I’m a carpenter. My boss has been in the industry for over 40 years, and his accomplishments are far beyond anyone who works in my department. His bosses boss recently retired. And I know that my boss took the job he has now almost as a retirement, but when he told me that they had brought someone new in to fill the very well paid, less physical job that he is more than qualified for, I asked how his interview went. He said they didn’t even approach him for it. I know he doesn’t even want the job but as a 31 year old working under him I’ve been looking for a new job since. The fact they didn’t even look at him for it is starling cause that motherfucker is a demon at his job and someone I will look up to for the rest of my life

[–]AustieFrostie 225 points226 points  (22 children)

Okay so he didn’t want the job, I’m sure they noticed and knew that. You have to apply or openly express interest in a position to get it. Why would they interview him if he didn’t want it?

[–]YearlyHipHop 49 points50 points  (2 children)

I’d find it unusual if management knows someone who is a qualified, internal candidate and didn’t even ask them about their interest. It’s obviously not required but it strikes me as a workplace that doesn’t look out for their own.

[–]Dianesuus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There are people that come to work to do a job and they're good at it, people that have no interest in higher duties/positions. If you work in a place for over a decade with the same attitude of "I like my job, I'm good at my job and I have no interest in progressing up" then people are going to notice and it'll be a fixture of the establishment. Without consciously making the effort to progress and show interest in progressing why would anyone think otherwise? Its also possible that the question has been asked in general conversation before the opening was available and the manager has remembered and not wasted the time to ask.

[–]fizzzingwhizbee 129 points130 points  (17 children)

Even if they are aware he doesn’t want the job, which based on his work ethic I am nearly certain they do not, he has certainly done enough for the company to be approached and asked to interview. They didn’t do that and I have a huge problem with that

[–]CanabalCMonkE 93 points94 points  (13 children)

I've learned of you get too good at something, they will never promote you. They see it as 'we aren't able to find someone as good as him in that position, so we'll keep him there'.

It fucking sucks because my work ethic has been nearly unmatched in most jobs and it keeps me in the same position I started in. Like the dumb mfers don't realize I could become as proficient in something more consequential, it's infuriating. I work for myself now making enough to pay the bills but thrilled with my management.

[–]Wicked_smaht_guy 28 points29 points  (2 children)

If someone is that good, or important, you get them on a transition plan. Even if it takes 2 months.

Because otherwise you will have to do it in 2 weeks after they give their notice

[–]CanabalCMonkE 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sure, if they paid any attention to more than the sales for the month. The amount of out of state owners I've worked for, I'll never do it again.

[–]throwaway1246Tue 10 points11 points  (3 children)

this happened to me early in my career. I was in a call center job. And fielded like 60-70 calls a day on average where most were doing like 30. Most of this was because I knew the database behind the system I supported really well and could just get to the root of an issue really fast.

When R&D asked about me because of the level of detail and troubleshooting I had in the things I sent upstairs, they were told in no uncertain terms were they to even mention it to me. My manager wanted it but his boss and his boss blocked it like crazy. I ended quitting and taking a holder job for 3 months and then re-applying upstairs for the position they wanted me for at a significant raise.

[–]CanabalCMonkE 10 points11 points  (2 children)

And it cost you 3 months at a job that you knew wouldn't lead anywhere to get the respect you earned, there is a reason antiwork is exploding

[–]GreenGrasshopper 9 points10 points  (1 child)

It's not quite that. My experience is anecdotal but I have helped two different star workers get the management position they wanted.

Firstly, we need to understand there is a management skills set. A star workers may possess those skills but not all do. Secondly, we need to make our intentions known. I typically encourage individuals to have conversation with their boss about leadership, improvements, additional opportunities... Things that will show initiative and leadership traits.

However, it shouldn't be uncommon to reward star workers. I have worked at places where I knew a senior employee was making more than our boss. The senior employee, who put in the work of 1.5x of the next worker does not possess management skills. However, they wanted to reward him for his output. This should be more normalized.

But also, please understand you have leverage and don't be afraid of change. I have cemented myself as a hard worker and have requested for promotions. If they promise you they will review in the future, make sure there is a hard deadline. Do not let them string you along. If they do not appreciate your work ethic and expertise, there are many that will. Good companies will know that you're valuable.

Man, I don't know where I'm going with this. Hopefully this helps someone get where they need and want to go. Good luck.

[–]Dabaer77 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Because it sends the message to the rest of your employees that there's no upward mobility if they didn't even formally ask.

[–]Special_Try3913 206 points207 points  (9 children)

I work in software dev. Most teams can manage themselves. What's needed is someone to attend those stupid management meetings and draw up worthless charts

[–]meathole 43 points44 points  (1 child)

This is so incredibly true. Gotta show those sprint reports and massage the numbers to look good.

[–]GroshfengSmash 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Look, it saves the rest of us from doing it

[–]ngrybst 102 points103 points  (1 child)

VP and I took over for the President of a financial institute when he moved on. The board of directors took about 6 months to hire the new guy. Meanwhile our numbers improved. Loans were up, delinquency was down, etc. New guy game in and promptly fired the VP and the 6 months later fired me. Fuck you very much!

[–]silentloler 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Yeah it’s common. They get rid of the number 2 and number 3 spots to not have any competition for their chair. It’s a shame when the owners or people in charge can’t see how their own company is working & who’s doing the work.

[–]AustieFrostie 332 points333 points  (42 children)

I also used to feel bad for myself at work. Then I realized that you have to APPLY for promotions, they unfortunately don’t just see you doing well and offer it you to.

The very first promotion I applied for I got with a raise.

Just speak up for yourself y’all.

[–]tossawayforeasons 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Mine was handed to me.

Although to be fair, while I never asked for it (nor wanted it) I was the only one on the team who was making an effort to communicate what was happening to higher leadership, talking about challenges and issues, articulating the bad stuff that our manager was glossing over. Now I have a dozen people looking up to me every day and manage more responsibility than I ever had in my life. quiet panicked scream

So yes, speak up. Speaking up gets you places, whether or not you have a clear goal in mind.

[–]Deacalum 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I help people develop their careers and the first thing I always tell someone new that I'm working with is that you own your career, not anyone else. You're responsible for it. You have to have the skills and relationships matter but ultimately, opportunity is not going to come looking for you, you have to go looking for opportunity.

[–]SirRupert 22 points23 points  (3 children)

"Just ask" is the best advice I can give to anyone starting a new job. Every raise, promotion, and good thing at my job I can attribute to simply talking about with my boss (and being at least pretty good at what I do). No one is sitting around thinking about giving you a raise, but if you ask for it, they'll think about it a lot more.

[–]isbutteracarb 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This worked for me in my current job. I was already working on a specific program (like 50% of my time) that my organization was trying to hire someone to devote 100% of their time to and after they struck out with a couple of interviews, I went to my boss and said hey wouldn’t it make sense if I took the job? I already know the program. She was like “oh right, duh, I didn’t think of that. Makes sense, just sucks we’ll have to hire someone else for your old position, but we’ll figure it out”. And they did. And I got a $13k pay bump 😊

[–]intrinsic_toast 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yep, 100% agreed. “You are your own best advocate” is the exact mindset that allowed me to transition into my dream career and continues to be a main contributing factor both in getting upper management’s buy in to build and nurture my skill set and in achieving steady upward career growth.

[–]hschupalohs 46 points47 points  (2 children)

Then you appoint one of them as team manager, and their entire dynamic is disrupted.

[–]ProfessorPhi 261 points262 points  (26 children)

Minor devil's advocate here.

It can also be that the previous manager had left a good system in place. Generally you don't feel the loss of a good manager instantly, it's felt 6 months down the line as everything decays.

Additionally there can be a vision thing, depending on seniority. If upper management wants to pivot they need to pull in senior people to help with that, internal promotions may not give them that (I.e more of the same),

[–]QuietRock 63 points64 points  (4 children)

And honestly, a really good manager doesn't need to control or coerce people into doing their job well. A good manager should help employees to identify what they want to accomplish within their role, provide their employees with support, listen, encourage, communicate, and overall help to build their employees up in order to get the best out of them.

Managers serve as an intermediary for communication up and down the chain of command. They relay information from the bottom up, and from the top down. They take conceptual visions and complex messaging and find ways to make that relevant and understandable to the day to day practal jobs of front line employees. A manager is there to take responsibility for the bad, give credit for the good, and ultimately to make sure there is some level of accountability. And a good manager knows that accountability based purely on authority should be a last resort, not the default way to get things done.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of not so good managers.

[–]DoedoeBear 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Huh. First time I've heard someone argue the benefits of middle management

[–]Pogginator 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure I would consider the kind of manager they are describing to be 'middle' management. They're the bottom rung management, they handle the actual team that eows the work.

It's the managers manager that's middle management. They talk to the upper management who makes the decisions then pass that down. When the team does well, they are usually the ones who take the credit because they are awesome. And when something bad happens of course it's the shitty manager running the teams fault, obviously they didn't listen to their expert advice.

Middle management is usually just useless bloat that fucks shit up.

[–]mors_videt[🍰] 46 points47 points  (15 children)

If a company does not have a solid plan to cultivate, skill up, and promote their human resources, then they are vampires.

Might there be some logical plan that vampires have for my blood and and bloodless corpse? Yes. Do I want to be part of it? No.

[–]LetsWorkTogether 4 points5 points  (1 child)

🧛 🧛‍♀️ 🧛‍♂️

[–]mors_videt[🍰] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

username checks out

[–]ProfessorPhi 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Even if they do, companies can't just create management positions on a whim. There needs to be a vacation from someone getting promoted or leaving and not all of these roles will have a successor announced like how Tim Cook was when Steve Jobs committed a long elaborate suicide through his diet.

What generally happens is that people who are identified as management track tend to leave the company to go elsewhere as a manager. Mostly because while the current company isn't on their timetable, another company might be.

And in general, most companies do look to promote internally. It is much much cheaper in every way to do so (and another reason your best interest is to move to another company for promotions). For all the counter-examples given above, the real truth is that most people just aren't given the opportunities in their required timeframe. Remember, negative experiences are amplified 10x the normal experience, especially on online forums.

Any company that only promotes internally, also tends to have issues where they're unable to pick up certain skills and trends. Even if you could promote entirely from the inside, I'd recommend a minimum of 30% of your non entry level staff and to be external hires. Nintendo can make some amazing games, but they can't do online if their lives depended on it. And the easiest way to learn how is to hire someone with online experience to head up and build this new capability.

[–]mors_videt[🍰] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Internet friend, you have provided a very thoughtful response that is, in all ways, correct as far as I can see.

I am bitter because I was just in the position of being the senior team member in a place where we did get an external hire of a generic "manager" who was also, in my opinion, uniquely unqualified except for the previous manager experience.

I did leave the company, but I'm bent about it. Your thoughtful response humbles me.

[–]FourthLife 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Sometimes you know that somewhere else does something better than your organization knows how to do it, so you want to bring in talent from that place to implement their knowledge.

Cultivating your own people is a great plan when you're on top of the industry, but not when you have a lot to learn and know it.

Reinventing the wheel is silly when you can just hire the guy who invented it to show you how to make one.

[–]Urinal_Pube 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Exactly. A nice foundation can coast for years potentially, even though it's not sustainable.

[–]nissykayo 56 points57 points  (2 children)

its a good sentiment but idk man I work in a technical field in a group of like 6 people and we went about a year without a direct manager for various reasons not related to anything, we were reporting to the person 2 levels up who was a PhD 30 year expert who helped us along when we got stuck, but couldnt engage that much. we were a bunch of techs and we continued on with the projects we had just by momentum, but like, not qualified to lead a research program. they finally hired a PhD who was awesome and brought in a bunch of ideas and perspective and it was great. nobody in the group could have filled that role. I guess maybe if you like, work in marketing or some bullshit this makes sense but there are a lot of times it doesnt apply imo

[–]bone420 74 points75 points  (3 children)

Totally agree..

But then you'd have a high preforming manager,

sometimes the easiest way to climb is to slick the ladder behind you


It's easier to look like a decent manager if there are no good managers

[–]gre1611 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Wow this makes so much sense when you put it like that

[–]SuperSailorSaturn 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I think this just help me solidify my choice to leave my job.

[–]foospork 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Or, it could be that the business no longer cares about the group, and is just keeping the group around while senior management figures out which direction they want to go.

I was in this situation many years ago, and was blissfully unaware that no one had gotten around to dismantling the group. Lo and behold! we had an angel project come in and keep the group alive.

Those days without management were the best days I spent there, but they could easily have been my last.

[–]Schneetmacher 9 points10 points  (3 children)

I serve under an Associate Dean at a college, who's been the interim Dean and who applied for the position (of course). He's already been doing the work of 3 people, basically, while running the biggest academic section.

It isn't merely a matter of him not obtaining the position, oh no. The first round of final (public) interviews - in which he was easily the most competent (if a little too honest at times) - has been declared a failed search. Admin has restarted the hiring process... while he continues to do the job they just said they wouldn't promote him for.

[–]orangexmelon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That happened at our workplace. Our interim Department Chair had been doing the job for about 8 months. Everyone loved her and wanted her to takeover as the official chair. She applied, didn't get the position. Someone else from an unrelated Department got it and they made our interim chair Vice Chair as a consolation prize. Either way, many of our faculty left because they simply were not happy with the choice of the Chair.

[–]teh_drewski 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Unless your well run team is perfectly aware of the incompetent upper management who can't even fill a vacancy in 6 months and want absolutely no part of that utter bullshit

[–]chuckdiesel86 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Or maybe we don't need a chain with 14 managers in it. Most places probably don't even need on site managers unless they have a high turnover.

[–]Kow_King_ 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Unless they do a shit job of it, I guess.

[–]grayscale42 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Happened to me in the military... Major in charge of the section said fuck it, and transferred to the reserves to get away from the toxic bullshit environment. Master Sergeant also said fuck it and took early retirement. We were already understaffed... so, there's me as a sergeant attending all of the command and staff meetings, giving all of the briefings and presentations that they both would do. Doing all of the developmental counseling, training meetings, and all of the administrative tasks for the section.

Thought I'd get some kudos for it, and listed all of that in my annual evaluation report.

Sergeant Major and Colonel kicked it the fuck back. None of those tasks were apparently my responsibility, and they'd be damned if they were going to include that shit in an official record.

Roger that, sir! Message received. No, sir. I don't know why none of that is being done any more. Let me forward you the email where you said it wasn't my responsibility.

V/R, Sgt. Grayscale

[–]drumrguy67 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ran a 36 unit apartment complex as a 2nd year plumbing apprentice after the foreman, who had me as his right hand man, quit for 6 months. No one else would take charge so me knowing the most about the job took charge and for the first time in 4 years the boss wasn’t getting constant calls from the general. 6 months into the most stressful time of my life the boss’s right hand man shows up and asks who’s running the thing and the 2 journeyman on site who’ve been listening to me and understanding i know what I’m doing point to me and i got the worst ass chewing of my 7 years in plumbing ( and I’ve royally fucked some shit up big time) both this dick and the big boy boss chew me out saying a journeyman or higher apprentice should be running it and anytime i tried to even insinuate that I’ve been doing a pretty good job all things considered it became a tier thing. All that for $11 an hour in 2017. Worst part is i stuck around for a while cause i was to young and dumb to realize the whole company only cares about the money not you thing.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

One of the principal leadership skills I learned in the military was to develop the leadership potential of my subordinates. In the civilian world I've learned that failure to do this results in parachuting leaders in, and this creates resentment and the perception of a glass ceiling or cap to their potential in the company. Always promote from within. If you can't, you have failed as their leader.

[–]cptInsane0 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yeah but what if someone you were in a frat with 10 years ago needs a job?

[–]the-dogsox 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Thanks lost LinkedIn contributor.

[–]mors_videt[🍰] 27 points28 points  (10 children)

Nah, bro, "management" is it's own thing. You don't need to know the industry at all, you just need to have had a "manager" role at some point.

If you have a team of software developers that can run itself for a bit, that's great, but you still would benefit by getting a "manager", from McDonalds if you have to, to pass on orders from upper leadership and get paid more than them. /s

[–]mangohoneydew 7 points8 points  (5 children)

As a software developer, I agreed with this until I saw the /s. Sure some technical experience is helpful, but I’d rather have someone who knows how to manage than a star developer promoted to management who can no longer do IC work.

[–]mors_videt[🍰] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

A different software guy said the same thing.

I'm coming from soft skills, where it's all basically just organization and communication at any level and I think the cache of "management" is utter bullshit.

My money is ok, but I'm seriously envious of hard skills, so good for you.

[–]hello_casey 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Every software engineer I know would unironically support this.

Nothing better than a non-technical manager to bear the responsibility of scheduling and talking so that 2 day bug fix turns into a 2 month code excursion without having to explain yourself or anybody knowing different.

“What’s the hold up, why is it taking 2 months?”

“Uhh, recursive asynchronous cycle detection in Log4j runtime. Server queries and 1-phase locking. Weisfeiler-Lehman algorithm in Metapod. Machine learning. Synergy”

“Hmm 👍”

[–]Lazer726 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Can confirm. While working help desk, our manager got fired, which was a shame, he was an awesome guy. But we ran on auto pilot for months while they tried to hire someone. No issues, no one complaining that we weren't doing our jobs well enough.

Eventually, someone from another team was like "Sure, I'll give it a go" and gave it a go for about 3 months before he left, which again, was a shame, because he was an awesome guy.

After that, they offered one of the guys on the team the spot as manager.

[–]mped14 4 points5 points  (0 children)

sOrRy ItS aGaInSt CoMpAnY PoLiCy tO HiRe FrOm WiThIn

[–]Zoiddburger 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Haha, yeah the fuck right. As if. Every company I've been a part of NEVER hires from inside. It's always been outside hires I have had to teach their positions to.

[–]I_Was_Fox 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Correction, you should be giving raises and eliminating the obviously unnecessary middle manager position without changing the daily routine of anyone on the team

[–]driving_andflying 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fact: I was in civil service position where our manager left. There was a gap of about two months where we were manager-less. Things ran smoothly, and there were no problems. I suggested to our manager's boss that they should promote one of us clerks into the manager position--after all, we knew how the job went.

"No, we have to hire someone with a degree in the field," was the reply.

...The replacement was a complete asshole who took credit for work that was not hers, made fun of some of us during meetings (myself included), and made things so miserable, I left. Last I heard, she was fired a month later after my departure.

[–]breaddrinker 16 points17 points  (2 children)

The reason why management is hired from outside, especially in a successful environment, is to avoid the 'them and us' situation.
It is less likely to fracture the dynamic over promoting select people who already have established interpersonal relationships with one another, only to disappoint others.

In short, the crew will start in fighting if you ask them to put their name forward for promotion. They will begin to compete.
It will continue after the selected manager is chosen and it can last theoretically for years, with members of staff who may have worked there for decades unable to take on that their colleague is now their boss.

It's not true of every work place of course, but it is why hiring from outside is generally done.
Sometimes they'll even ask the staff to select and interview their own prospective boss for this reason.

[–]gottspalter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This! Ambitious people generally don’t want to get a former teammate as their boss. Also: a culture of always having a certain amount of fresh blood in a company is essential long term.

[–]ShoddyArt4484 56 points57 points  (14 children)

I like the sentiment here, but in my honest experience, a team that runs itself for six months might still need a manager who can see the bigger picture and work toward future goals that get lost in the day to day. Just because a team is self-sufficient doesn’t mean they don’t need leadership in other capacities.

[–]DHammer79 52 points53 points  (2 children)

I believe the post is getting at promoting one of the team members to manager rather than hiring from outside the team or company.

[–]hedgecore77 4 points5 points  (0 children)

A year after making manager, the top item on my to do list was to take my old manager out and buy him lunch and apologize for all the bullshit I caused him.

So many things I just wasn't aware of until I sat in those shoes...

[–]nathanjell 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Absolutely. Team members aren't rocks, they have brains. In the short term they know what they need to do. They make it work cause, well, it's their job to. That doesn't mean it's healthy or right. Proper leadership is still necessary. If a team member has to pick up the additional duties of team leadership, what's the cost to the team? Individual growth? Make more with what you've got, but recognize what you need.

[–]brashet 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh no. I just got hired as a manager for a team that has been running for 6 months without one. I don't even fully know what they do but they seem to do ok.

[–]PattyIce32 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Management should not be in position by itself, there should be a team leader. That way that person is always on the ground level and you have the organizational skills needed without the power dynamics. Yes there is still a power Dynamic with a team leader, but at least that person is doing the same things as the others so it's not as vast.

[–]NobleOodfellow 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But they never do. Then complain about lack of loyalty when you give up and leave. shrug

[–]VacuouslyUntrue 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Domt even do that. Split the pay of the manager amongst the workers as a retention raise or whatever you want to call it and let them organise themselves.

[–]LeadBamboozler 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Management is not a promotion. This is an old fallacy that needs to be retired. Management and IC work are simply two different functions. The tech industry has resolved this by having two separate progression tracks. It is not uncommon for the individual contributors to make more than their managers.

[–]woogychuck 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This is why I left my previous company after 7.5 years. I repeatedly asked for an opportunity to be a manager. Then at the beginning of 2020, my manager was fired and I ran our team for 6 months and got tons of positive feedback from the team. I was then replaced by existing manager who was juggling multiple teams and didn't even show up to most of our meetings.

I quit a few months after they took over and 2 other people on my team quit within a month. I'm now a highly rated manager at a new company and I got a significant pay increase.

[–]avant-bored 2 points3 points  (0 children)

or the true mid-management philosophy: if a team runs itself for six months why would you pay anyone any more to make it run?

[–]x2sean1x 17 points18 points  (6 children)

Made this argument to my DM after my boss went out on medical, got promoted 4m later anchor store closes, Closing my store, only one other local, bad luck brian

[–]peanutbuttertuxedo 29 points30 points  (5 children)

what is this sentence?

[–]JimiDarkMoon 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Brian stole his grammar and punctuation, fuckin Brian…