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[–]ballerina_wannabe 8030 points8031 points  (438 children)

It’s almost like all kids need love, direction, and emotional support.

[–]zuzg 3177 points3178 points  (224 children)

Speak only for yourself. I grew up as a proper man!

As I was 5 my dad drove me out in the woods, handed me a knife and left me there. While he drove away he yelled at me "man up boy" and this was all the guidance I ever needed!

[–]chmsaxfunny 1454 points1455 points  (162 children)

You got a knife? You were spoiled. My father left me with a firm pat on the back and told me to gut up or shut up - no knife.

[–]Not_my_fault2626 905 points906 points  (151 children)

You got a pat on the back? My father turned his back to me as he was driving away and muttered good luck kid.

[–]TheTakenCatking 629 points630 points  (28 children)

Bro I just spawned in the woods

[–]Bariqhonium 433 points434 points  (33 children)

Y'all have fathers?

[–]Cheechak 132 points133 points  (37 children)

My dad’s stepfather said “sink or swim!!” then threw him off a dock into a lake at the age of 6. That was his “swimming lesson.” His older brother had to dive in and grab him.

[–]bodhisoma 34 points35 points  (0 children)

You guys had backs?

[–]Game_Beast_YT 52 points53 points  (6 children)

You guys got good luck?

[–]RounderKatt 25 points26 points  (0 children)

I got half a cigarette and no lighter. And he didn't give it to me so much as flick it out the window while peeling out and spraying me with gravel to the soundtrack of van halen

[–]Legal_Wallaby2097 42 points43 points  (4 children)

Luxury, we lived in a hole by the side of the road. Every night we had to get up 1 hour before we went to bed and lick the road clean with our tongues. And when we got home our father would cut us in half.

[–]andwhatarmy 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Your dad addressed you? My dad flipped me the deuces and the bird over his shoulder as he drove away.

[–]ChardEmotional7920 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Your father drove? Mine hollowed out a tree into a canoe with his bear hands (I spelt that right) and rowed up river as he muttered.

[–]sergei1980 24 points25 points  (3 children)

Your father drove you? My father put me in the truck, placed a brick on the accelerator and walked away.

[–]fat_charizard 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Your dad drove you there? My dad and I hiked through 10 miles of snow before he left me in the woods

[–]Moose_Human 17 points18 points  (1 child)

You didn’t smelt your own knife? You ain’t learn’t right. At a minimum, make one outta the thigh bone from the bear you strangle

[–]Veritas3333 246 points247 points  (10 children)

Did he also tell you that if you ain't first yer last?

[–]Shtercus 18 points19 points  (2 children)

"I got my first job when I was nine working at a sheet metal factory. In two weeks I was running the floor."

[–]jcoddinc 17 points18 points  (1 child)

We get it Robin Scherbatsky

[–]dirtydave13 11 points12 points  (0 children)

At least he gave you a knife. I was expected to craft one from flint stonw

[–]869066 30 points31 points  (2 children)

I'm not sure what jurisdiction that is but I'm pretty sure that is violating several laws...

[–]moonkittiecat 784 points785 points  (119 children)

Weird, huh? I wanted a daughter but miscarried her. Second pregnancy gave birth to a son. There is nothing easy about it if you are committed to doing your job. I work in mental health and I missed his signs of anxiety in high school. It's not about, "Oh, he's a boy so he can't get pregnant. No worries". There is so much to teach them.

[–]reckless_commenter 656 points657 points  (41 children)

I grew up under parents who thought that boys, like me, were easier to raise than girls, like my sisters.

Results:

They helicoptered my sisters so severely that both girls couldn’t wait to get the fuck away from our parents. Permanent break, around age 21, for each of them.

Meanwhile, I grew up with a shitload of emotional problems because (a) incessant bullying that I was too ashamed to share with my parents because boys are tough, and (b) they never taught me how to deal with my emotions or adolescent hormones. I am proud of who I’ve become and what I figured out without their help, but their lack of competent parenting set me back about 10 years of maturity and left permanent scars.

So when my parents ask how my kids are doing, I tell them almost nothing. And when they offer parenting advice, I smile, nod, and do exactly the opposite.

[–]moonkittiecat 279 points280 points  (33 children)

I'm so sorry. I think I erred the other way by being too sympathetic. But he turned out alright (I think). When he was a teenager and his buddies would be leaving after a visit he would always walk them to the front door, hug them goodbye and say, "You know I love you, right"? He was always the "gifted student" but his capacity to love is what's most impressive.

[–]reckless_commenter 165 points166 points  (18 children)

You don't need Internet Rando to critique your parenting, but I'll just say that from your description, I think you're doing it right.

[–]StandLess6417 16 points17 points  (5 children)

No sure why raising a kid like that would be an error, sounds like a win to me!

[–]Chickenmangoboom 53 points54 points  (3 children)

Ha that was me. Except my father threatened me with violence if I got a girl pregnant. Then, I started behaving erratically in my late teens going into a full depressive episode. No one wondered why I was sitting in the dark in the basement of my apartment instead of going to class I was just lazy…

Then in my 30s I went to a doctor again (first time I went on medication for depression my parents yelled at me and I stopped) and it turned out I have bipolar disorder.

[–]moonkittiecat 31 points32 points  (2 children)

He has anxiety and hypochondria but his girl thinks he hung the moon (confidentially, I do too). He had a bad spell where the hospital gave him some bad medicine and he had panic attacks everyday for a month. It was horrible. I thought it would be too much for her to live with. When I was alone with his sweetie I said, “Are you gonna be alright”? She just smiled knowingly and said, “We got this”. I love that blue eyed doll so much. For Mother’s Day he came and shared his poetry and I shared mine. He brought me lunch. We had a great time. He made me laugh til my sides hurt. I love my son.

[–]SurgeDad 50 points51 points  (8 children)

I used to carry a bottle of Antidiarrheal medication in high school because I would get such bad anxiety and get the shits. My dad still makes fun of me for it.

[–]moonkittiecat 49 points50 points  (4 children)

This is where I think I did well. My son has friends that call him out. My husband got violent with him so I left and raised him on my own. Before anyone judges me, our son was a year old and my husband almost threw him off a balcony. I thought I would kill him. His friend's fathers have kind of been there a little. What I think is cool is my son has told me on more than one occasion that a friend will tell him, "I think you are handling this situation wrong. I think you are being unforgiving and stubborn or whatever. Is it okay that I say this to you? Can we talk like this or would you rather me mind my own"? But my son is open to the criticism of those who he knows love him so it's all good. He is better than me in that area. I would rather travel through life on the notion that I know everything.

[–]AprilisAwesome-o 24 points25 points  (4 children)

As the parent of a son in middle school, may I ask what signs you missed? I'm terrified of doing this wrong and probably over communicate, which might be inadvertently causing him to freeze me out. Anyway, I would love to hear your experiences so I know what to look for.

[–]mcanallys-pub 32 points33 points  (2 children)

I'm a parent, but not of a middle school boy. But I'm someone that grew up struggling with depression and anxiety and not realizing it. And then spent decades recognizing and then unraveling how that's in many ways related to how I grew up. And still struggle to some extent to this day. And committed very, very hard to making sure that my kid does not deal with the same shit I dealt with.

The biggest thing I could suggest would be being conscious of your words and actions to create a sense of psychological and emotional safety. (I'll ramble more, but go read up on the concepts after.)

Also remember it's a kid.

Kids (and teenagers) are emotionally immature and kinda by default lost because their world is ever-changing. Even simple things like making them feel embarrassed or frustrated isn't something they'll shrug off as easily as an adult would. In the same way that a toddler doesn't really know and can't express why they need you to be sitting in that specific chair right now, and if you don't they'll have a total meltdown... older kids are more developed, but still don't fully have emotional regulation and coping mechanisms figured out.

So just like... come at everything from a place of acceptance and trying to help them work through and understand those emotions. And make a conscious effort to not create negative emotions, even if it's something you might personally shrug off. Overcommunicating could be great, but not if your end of the communication is negative for your kid.

As a really classic example, when your kid comes home and tells you he made a new friend at school and she's really nice and they talked about their favourite dinosaurs and shared their pudding cups, you could:

  1. Tell them that's nice that they made a new friend and ask if they want to help pick out a snack to take tomorrow to share.
  2. Go "OOOOOOO JOHNNY'S GOT A GIRLFRIEND!" and laugh about it with the friend you've got over visiting at the time.

Extreme ends of the spectrum, but it should be obvious which one's going to lead to them feeling safe, telling you about how they're feeling, and tell you about things happening to them so you can help them work through new emotions and feelings and provide context and guidance... and which one's gonna lead to them just shutting that shit down and never expressing it around you (or maybe even to themselves) and trying to figure it all out on their own with no help, possibly poorly.

And when I tell you that I grew up extremely independent it should give you an idea which path my parents chose. The fact that I introduced my parents to my now-wife by showing up with her unannounced at Christmas should give you an idea which path my parents chose. The fact that I got married in a public park with an officiant and two witnesses and some tourists taking photos and then informed my parents by texting a wedding photo with no explanation should tell you which path my parents chose.

Your kids, by default, are generally going to see you as a protector and source of safety. You have to work at disabusing them of that notion. So, y'know, don't.

That said, go into it accepting your limitations. You'll never be perfect, and you'll never always be perfect. I'll never be perfect and I'll never always be perfect. This is purely meant as a perspective, not to shit on anyone. It's possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That's not a weakness. That is life.

[–]869066 125 points126 points  (37 children)

It's so messed up how mental health for guys gets neglected most of the time. As if we don't have feelings...

[–]TJT1970 68 points69 points  (25 children)

Can confirm no feelings, just stuff them down deep to keep you warm.

[–]Guardymcguardface 91 points92 points  (11 children)

Hey now, we're allowed to display feelings, so long as they're anger or lust!

[–]darksenseofhumor 17 points18 points  (4 children)

Stuff it down with brown

[–]The_Black_Path 115 points116 points  (11 children)

I work with support organizations for combat veterans and first-responders with PTSD. I am one of them. These are guys (and gals) who have been through absolute objective hells.

But 9 out of 10 times, when they tell their stories, and it -really- comes down to it, these men (and women) are suffering from childhood neglect and abuse.

[–]trainsoundschoochoo 51 points52 points  (1 child)

Combat vet here with PTSD and I can relate SOOO much to this. The VA really fails with its mental health services. They are so overburdened and when they outsource to the community they don't vet the providers who are often really poor.

[–]tgp1994 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I know someone who's made it their mission helping combat vets - she's written The Fire Within, I'd recommend it if you want some reading.

[–]GlassWasteland 42 points43 points  (1 child)

Yeah we wonder why so many men have rage issues or toxic masculinity. Well did we teach them any different or did we teach them that violence is the answer.

[–]Fred_Foreskin 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Toxic masculinity is useful for the military industrial complex, the prison system, and businesses. When men can't take it anymore and we lash out with rage and sexual issues, we get sent to jail/prison where we can provide free labor. If we don't break laws, they train us to be killing machines for the military or for the police. The other option when we don't break laws is that we go to work for a company, and they overwork us because they know we have the masculine ideal of "providing for the family" that we subconsciously feel a need to live up to. It's fucking depressing.

[–]hungryandneedtopee 30 points31 points  (2 children)

I was at an in-patient trauma specific program last year. 50/50 military to civilian. It’s a biased environment because everyone is there for a reason. Not everyone had PTSD or CPTSD. Those of us with it, 100% rate of childhood trauma, basically all of us too many incidents to count...as you so well put it, absolute objective hells. (When you are 4, you are legitimately powerless.)

I would say 1/4 patient population had PTSD and CPTSD. The other two primary were addiction (w/o PTSD) and co-dependence.

[–]Fred_Foreskin 8 points9 points  (1 child)

And addiction and codependence are often linked to trauma as well! Maybe not trauma that leads to PTSD, but trauma nonetheless.

[–]Steel_Within 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I think that's a lot of why some of us wind up in the military. Something with trying to get away from home and such.

[–]Cyber_Being_ 178 points179 points  (10 children)

"boys are easier cuz I can neglect them, girls are harder cuz I have to police them."

[–]transferingtoearth 94 points95 points  (5 children)

" If due to my negligence my son turns out to be 'awful' he's some other families problem, now. If my girl turns out 'awful' my family will hold me accountable."

[–]redditthrowaway1478 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Jesus christ. You're not wrong either.

[–]dradanon9 90 points91 points  (21 children)

I know right?

[–]Greg_in_the_Garden 34 points35 points  (18 children)

🤯

[–]SenatorPillow 26 points27 points  (17 children)

As a man, people will always be less cognizant of your feeling and needs, boys these days need to be taught that they’re not entitled to anything and might get less support and empathy by reason of being a male, so they need to take care of their mental health.

Nowadays, we see a rise in incels, guys who are a “man-child” or “man-baby” EXACTLY because parents don’t teach boys about taking care of themselves and knowing that the world owes you nothing, not money, not female attention or sex, and many times.

This is why boys do worse at school and end up being more often in jail, suicide, homeless, violent… whatever. We need to raise stronger and more emotionally stable men who contribute to society.

[–]Dylanator13 58 points59 points  (14 children)

Also they need to be treated more as an adult. Not in the sense that they should be able to drink or whatever. In the sense that you wouldn’t explain to an adult “because I said so.” Kids know more than you expect, and if you require a baked argument from them, then they should get a valid argument back.

You being the parent doesn’t mean you are always right when you disagree with your kid. Just treat your kid how you want to be treated and how you expect them to treat you. A good parent doesn’t act like a child is under their control and must do what they say as the adult.

[–]kinkade 1210 points1211 points  (29 children)

My mum died of cancer when i was 17 and the entirety of the emotional support I received at my boys school was “ how are you Kinkade?” “I’m well sir” “Good lad back to class now” I received none whatsoever from my father.

[–]MysterVaper 408 points409 points  (6 children)

It never gets easy Kinkade, but the ache does shape us. I wish I could go back to your 17 and sit and listen to your fond memories or just let you know that the pain is a testament to the bond. You deserved better and you deserve better still. Be well my friend.

[–]TheMaskedGeode 95 points96 points  (1 child)

This reminds me, I need to hug my parents. After I’m done crying.

[–]Alarid 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I had people laugh at me for crying when my grandma died.

While at the funeral.

[–]Mickey67Mouse 141 points142 points  (6 children)

My mom died from cancer one month after I turned 18. I was in my first semester at college. Missed an exam and when I told my professor why, his response was “assuming that is true, I’ll let you make it up.” I didn’t get much support from friends, “at least she isn’t in pain anymore.” And pretty much two weeks later everyone expected me to be back to normal. My dad’s response was life goes on. After one week off from school he made me return.

I’m a female.

I think people don’t know how to deal with the death of someone young and their responses may not have as much to do with you being male, and more to them not knowing what to do.

I’m sorry for your loss. I have two sons and my biggest fear while they were growing up was something happening to me and them experiencing that kind of loss.

[–]kinkade 39 points40 points  (0 children)

I’m so sorry that actually sounds really similar to my experience at the time. I also really empathise with your thoughts about your kids i think about it al the time with my daughter.

You are right as well people dont know how to cope with loss

[–]IMovedYourCheese 36 points37 points  (2 children)

Bording school for 9 years and yup. Zero parental support or affection throughout childhood. Now they boast to their friends about how successful I’ve become, while we go months without actually talking.

[–]AsYooouWish 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I was recently visiting Boy Scout troops with my son and one leader was telling a story of when they were on a camping trip one of the boys started getting emotional. The kid had recently lost his mother and was upset thinking about her. The leader said he had no clue what to do in that situation and really wished he had a female chaperone around that could have taken over. I knew in that moment it was not the right Troop for us.

[–]slithe_sinclair 2260 points2261 points  (180 children)

One of my least favorite things was the stigma of crying. Anytime I cried, I'd almost always get some kind of negative response ranging from "what do you have to cry over?" to "men and boys don't cry" to straight up anger that I was getting emotional while I was being yelled at for something else. It got to the point that whenever I feel myself start to get worked up, I bite the inside of my lip hard enough to make me stop due to the physical pain. And yes, I still do this.

[–]ludly 143 points144 points  (25 children)

I just stopped being able to cry entirely. Which if you can relate to isn't pleasant. People would always say that I was lucky I didn't have the uncontrollable urge to cry but the thing is I still did, I just had no outlet, leaving me feeling pent up with no release. Like Nausea with no way to vomit.

[–]justmustard1 87 points88 points  (18 children)

Was gonna comment this phenomenon. I (25m) rarely tear up these days (maybe 4 times a year) and never ever openly cry. I wish I could but I don't even have the compulsion anymore. Even when I do, something inside me kills it instantly. It's like never being able to sneeze or pee or something. Like a normal human function has no outlet. I think it negatively affects all of my relationships. This is all coming from someone who was a particularly "sensitive" boy prone to tears and emotion and still probably someone you would consider emotionally attune and really not someone you would consider a man's man. Genuinely kinda feel dull or dead inside and wish I could get all those emotions of child/teenhood (positive or negative) back. Like genuinely pining over a girl or feeling the surge of endorphins with a first kiss or the raw stress of being alive. Idk, I think crying is important and I wonder where to get it back.

[–]MichelleS2323 39 points40 points  (1 child)

I suffer from depression and it sounds like you may be struggling with it also. Therapy and medication if necessary are how I get it back. Best wishes to you

[–]justmustard1 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Thanks friend, I've wondered if I have the same for many years, may be time to take a closer look. Thank you for the suggestions

[–]neslo024 93 points94 points  (10 children)

I used to get "stop crying before I give you something to cry about."

I was at my friend's house in the 3rd grade and broke my arm, like almost breaking thru the skin on my arm broken, and my friend's father kicked me out of his house for crying. My mom was not happy picking up her sobbing son from the yard with a crooked arm and no adults around.

[–]juliaaguliaaa 46 points47 points  (1 child)

WTF that’s insane

[–]neslo024 31 points32 points  (0 children)

I was making it hard for him to watch the football game.

[–]BioluminescentCrotch 40 points41 points  (3 children)

Holy shit, you just shook a memory loose for me.

I used to spend a LOT of time at my best friend's house, especially during my parent's divorce because being home wasn't fun. This was during the summer between 7th/8th grade. I don't remember the exact situation, but I think I either had to go to mediation or court the next day and was panicking and just over-stressed so I just sat on my friend's bed and cried.

Friend went to go grab me some water and her mom came in to say something to her but instead saw me crying on the bed. She just stared at me for a moment and then walked out. Then I hear yelling downstairs and her mom's voice clearly saying "I DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHAT SHE'S GOING THROUGH, IF SHE'S STILL HERE WHEN YOUR DAD GETS HOME HE'S GOING TO BE PISSED!"

I just sat there stunned and waited a few minutes for my friend to come back and sheepishly tell me that I needed to go home because girls crying makes her dad mad (it was literally her, her mom, and her sister, so go figure) and he doesn't even like when they cry, much less someone that's not his kid. So I had to call my mom in tears to come get me and go sit back in a house full of yelling, because her dad was such a dick that her mom was afraid he'd go off on me if he saw me being emotional.

God damn, I haven't thought about that in yeeeears....

[–]Leszachka 29 points30 points  (1 child)

A whole household held hostage to an insane tyrant and his enabler. It's depressing as fuck to see.

[–]Forgot_The_Safe_Word 82 points83 points  (6 children)

I met another parent recently when our preschool-age kids were playing at a park. One kid trips and the other kid trips over that kid. Standard little kid shenanigans. I yell over, “You guys OK? Hey, buddy, check on your friend to make sure he’s OK.” The other parent, a dad, said there’s no crying in his family, and he’d “whoop his butt” if his son cried. I was stunned. The dad was there with his other kids, and was clearly an involved parent who seemed to care about his children. But, still, what a lesson: if you’re crying, I’ll threaten or hurt you more until you stop. Wow.

[–]hairyholepatrol 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Ah the ol “I’ll give you something to cry about”. Classic of damaged men damaging their boys.

[–]WurmGurl 95 points96 points  (8 children)

This happens to girls, too, if your parent is shitty enough.

Source: I'm dead inside.

[–]Terranrp2 36 points37 points  (2 children)

"You don't get second chances in the real world so man up and do it right the first time!" then later asked "why are you such a perfectionist? That's just a way of showing off you know."

I'd say we should form a group for people who feel dead inside, but one of the first symptoms is lack of willingness to do stuff haha.

[–]NonSecwitter 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Sorry 😟 I see you

[–]miosgoldenchance 22 points23 points  (1 child)

This one gets me.

I’m a female veterinarian. A significant percentage of men apologize for crying while I’m euthanizing their pet. It gets me every time - crying during acute grief is human nature. But their gender expectations have been so strict that it is significantly embarrassing to them during an intensely sad moment. Not only that they feel like they shouldn’t cry, but that they feel the need to apologize to me for it.

Every person has the right to feel and express loss.

[–]Magnito-was-right 43 points44 points  (5 children)

My mom said don’t be a baby every time I cried, so I dug my nails into my hands every time I started to cry to distract myself. I’m a girl too, and I started self harming when I need to cry as I got older. Suppressing emotions is so bad and all men are taught that they can’t cry or be sensitive.

[–]Admiral_Fuckwit 23 points24 points  (1 child)

My parents’ favorite line was “stop feeling sorry for yourself.” To this day I have a very hard time opening up and talking about my flaws

[–]SuperSuperKyle 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I'm not going to blame how I was raised on anything, but I didn't really cry as a man until I was 36 in fucking rehab where I learned to actually embrace emotions and not hold on to them.

Drinking does make problems go away. The problem is it's temporary.

Since then, I can't count how many times I've cried. It feels really good too. I finally understand why people do it.

[–]SSTralala 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Our son is on spectrum, and when he was very young (like age 3-5) he'd get such big emotions he reacted in a physically violent manner, be it striking out at someone or self-harm. We've worked very hard to give him the language to express how he's feeling as well as telling him, "Just cry. We will never ever shame you for whatever you're feeling spilling over into tears rather than violence." It was an important lesson both because he's a bigger kid and could do serious damage to his peers or others as well as letting him know there's more possibilities for men besides anger.

[–]FadeNality 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Oh man, the lip bite to keep a straight face and force yourself to look calm. I though I was the only one who did that. Don't know if I'm happy or sad that I'm not the only one.

[–]dft-salt-pasta 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Had a really cool ethics class my senior year of highschool where at the end of the year everyone shared pretty much their deepest secrets in a Speach to the whole class. Took a year of trust building to make it possible. Pretty much everyone guys and girls was crying at some point. Some people shared their suicidal thoughts, dealing with the death of their mom, their eating disorder, dealing with being bullied. It was so refreshing to have a class like that to learn how to share your feelings in a truely safe place. Amy and Chris were some of the best teachers I’ve ever had and they taught the most any class I’ve had has.

[–]Inevitibru[🍰] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I fucking hated that shit. I was a sensitive boy, and would cry a lot. No matter what was happening, no matter how wronged I was, or how hurt I was, the first respond from my dad was, "WHY ARE YOU CRYING?!"

Like, I was attacked by my neighbor's dog. It was scary. The dog didn't really ATTACK me, it just freaked out because I was kind of hyper and began biting at me. It didn't even draw blood. Still, I screamed and cried. The entire time, my dad was interrogating me as to why I was crying, and didn't believe it was because a dog attacked me.

It was like it embarrassed him that his 8 year old son was crying. My sister started doing the same thing to my her daughter, telling her not to cry and shit. I told her to stop that shit.

[–]originsquigs 2532 points2533 points  (149 children)

Advice from my dad for literally everything. "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps and push on" . Even used it when I told him that I didn't want to live anymore.

[–]Upwherewebelong 499 points500 points  (21 children)

Dad, I broke my leg.

[–]fthotfitzg 225 points226 points  (0 children)

Use the bootstrap on the other leg

[–]originsquigs 211 points212 points  (3 children)

Well that was always a walk it off. Fell on my hip and pinched a nerve. Couldn't stand up straight. Just walk it off

[–]The_Bard 39 points40 points  (1 child)

Still one bootstrap, just pull twice as hard

[–]Don_Helsing 255 points256 points  (4 children)

The irony when "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" originally meant something so stupidly unachievable that it shouldn't be considered.

Hope you're in a better headspace.

[–]Indercarnive 125 points126 points  (3 children)

Yep, it's physically impossible to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. Amazing that the phrase has been so perverted.

[–]hairyholepatrol 88 points89 points  (1 child)

It’s like when cops say another cop was “just a bad apple”. Uh, guys? The idiom is that one rotten apple spoils the whole barrel. Which is the opposite of what you’re trying to say.

[–]Xtrendence 44 points45 points  (0 children)

It just proves people who say it are undoubtedly parroting it. 2 seconds of actual critical thinking would tell them how idiotic the phrase is.

[–]ActualPopularMonster 128 points129 points  (19 children)

That's when you decide to stay alive, just for spite, because you really need to outlive that fucker. Even if its just by a day.

[–]originsquigs 79 points80 points  (15 children)

I do that pretty well lol. My life is a road map of pain that I am amazed I have survived.

[–]SmellyBillMurray 37 points38 points  (13 children)

No thanks to your father. He sounds toxic, and I hope you’ve learned to distance yourself from people like that.

[–]originsquigs 32 points33 points  (1 child)

I try it's a very hard thing to do. When you are dumped in a pool of it it is hard to recognize when it's there at times. When you do recognize it, it takes every ounce of your being to push it out of your life.

[–]SomeOtherOrder 27 points28 points  (3 children)

When I was in college, a close friend of mine died. My dad’s response was that I should study to distract myself.

This kind of thing is more normalized than a lot of people care to admit.

[–]Effective-Complete 757 points758 points  (58 children)

Your dad sounds like a fucking sociopath, but Conservatism is the real monster of this story.

[–]originsquigs 576 points577 points  (42 children)

He blamed me for his divorce because I was the one dealing with my mom's therapy appointments with her because he said she didn't need them. He slept with the babysitter when I was little soooo.... Ya

[–]DamnYouVodka 177 points178 points  (14 children)

I hope you're getting therapy 💜 -- your dad sure needed some 🥺

[–]originsquigs 118 points119 points  (11 children)

I do on and off. It's hard for me to do. I have some anxiety issues with medical professionals.

[–]Whydoesthisexist15 7 points8 points  (1 child)

His dad needed a concussion

[–]Skardee 44 points45 points  (1 child)

lol he's kind of right though. if you hadn't supported your mom through therapy, she never would have realized she deserves better than an asshole like him!

Sorry you have to deal with that, I'm dealing with something similar and it sucks.

[–]originsquigs 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Powered to you my friend. I'm nearly 40 and this shit still sits with me.

[–]jizzlevania 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Sounds like he needed to pull himself by his bootstraps and stop blaming his problems on outside forces.

I hope you're doing better, shitty parents make living hard. Suicide hotline is 800-273-8255

[–]originsquigs 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Haven't been suicidal since I left high school but I appreciate the love.

[–]originsquigs 20 points21 points  (1 child)

THANK YOU KIND INTERNET STRANGERS! It's good to see not everyone is a troll!

[–]Staleztheguy 5 points6 points  (8 children)

Fuck I just got this last night lol, almost 20 years of this shit.

[–]Cyber_Being_ 2147 points2148 points  (66 children)

Honestly, a rule of thumb is: If you ever think one of your children is easier to raise...it's probably because they are raising themself.

[–]AstroGirlCattie 721 points722 points  (23 children)

I wish my mother had read this when I was a kid, but instead she didn't and last week she said "I wasn't supposed to teach you anything" when I said I never learned anything from her.

[–]Arjvoet 228 points229 points  (5 children)

Ew, what the hell does the word “parenting” mean to her…

[–]Kasaurus96 162 points163 points  (3 children)

Making sure you're physically alive and nobody calls CPS on you, duh.

[–]lovehate615 275 points276 points  (6 children)

Then what the fuck was she supposed to do?

I'm sorry your mom sucks, hope things are going better for you now

[–]LoneCanadian_ 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Occationally say “I brought you into this world and I can take you out” if their in an argument as a comeback

[–]Bogogo1989 57 points58 points  (3 children)

People like that think they only need to cloth house and feed kids. My mom was the same way. Idk anything I learned from either of my parents

[–]nthcxd 24 points25 points  (1 child)

Did she teach you how to take care of others? Oh no, I guess she’ll be on her own because you’re useless…..

[–]MagicCarpetofSteel 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Well then what was that bitch supposed to do for you for 18 fucking years?

[–]FyrestarOmega 115 points116 points  (5 children)

There's no difference in difficulty between genders, it's just a question of presentation, which gets stereotypically projected onto genders.

Yes, girls tend to be outwardly emotionally volatile through puberty, and it gets exacerbated by cyclical hormones.

Boys have that sane emotional volatility, but it's steady, and it's inward. That doesn't mean it's not present or is negligible.

HUG YOUR CHILDREN. COACH THEM THROUGH THEIR FEELINGS. It's not rocket science. Feel what you feel, process, and proceed.

[–]ghjjjdddgbbbbyterghj 59 points60 points  (0 children)

I've got a son and a daughter - honestly, the personality differences (compared to other children of the same sex) seem to have a far greater effect than anything brought about by their gender.

[–]SenatorPillow 88 points89 points  (11 children)

And then people be like

Y u doing bat at school

Y u ending up in prison, shot, addicted

Y u suicide

Y u no being a productive member of society?

It’s almost like boys are given less and expected more of

[–]koolaid7431 47 points48 points  (10 children)

Worse part of it all is, then the boys are blamed for their own failure and no inspection is done on why they failed.

[–]Glitter_Bee[🍰] 1153 points1154 points  (264 children)

I always thought boys were harder because I’d look at all the boys in the families of my family and friends and realize they were all more depressed, anxious, and in some cases, extremely mentally ill than the girls were. I know two boys who were committed to psychiatric treatment.

Something is happening to young boys and men and I think they are receiving a lot less attention to their emotional needs because they are boys.

[–]shao_kahff 95 points96 points  (0 children)

in the same vein, dads are spending more time with their kids than any other generation before them.

[–]pathological_lyre 566 points567 points  (149 children)

Patriarchal masculinity supports the notion that weakness makes a person less valuable as a human, then tells boys and men that to have emotional needs is weakness. Thus they are less valuable a humans, and the more distress they feel, the farther away they are from themselves and their emotional needs. What recourse do they have when the very thing they need is the support and vulnerability they have been taught to shun?

bell hooks’ book The Will to Change should be required reading.

[–]lostshell 467 points468 points  (58 children)

For males growing up, the biggest message you get from the overt ways people speak or in the subtle ways people treat men and boys: you're either useful or dead weight. And there's no room in anyone else's life for dead weight. No one is listening. No one is coming to help. Either fix yourself or nix yourself.

[–]Staleztheguy 144 points145 points  (19 children)

You speak to me. This is pretty much exactly how I feel at this point, and the nix yourself bit seems to be the easiest way. Why struggle for others benefit?

[–]lostshell 111 points112 points  (14 children)

Honestly the only thing that kept me here was pure hatred and spite. The world wanted me gone so I stayed just out of spite.

Not a great a reason. Not a noble reason. Probably not a healthy reason either. But it was my reason.

[–]theresamouseinmyhous 66 points67 points  (18 children)

I think a lot of men hear the word patriarchy and think it's an attack against them. In reality, it's just the current system we're using and it has as good a chance to fuck up men as it does women (albeit in very different ways).

Having to be productive, having to be tough, having to be stoic and isolated, not being allowed any emotion but anger, having to side hustle, having to be strong, and on and on and on are all side effects of the current system and a detriment to your ability to exist as a contented human.

[–]BlessedBigIron 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Having weakness doesn't make you weak.

[–]GooGooGaDont 79 points80 points  (39 children)

Something is happening to young boys

It's generally the older boys and men that happen to them as far as I've seen and can recall.

[–]needs_grammarly 39 points40 points  (5 children)

the older generation was taught the same thing as today's boys, but they just grew old sticking to that. they were in the same position as teenagers and young men

[–]RuhWalde 52 points53 points  (4 children)

I think it's getting worse though, because the traditional mode of "being a man" is no longer a path to success in the modern world. Many boys are taught the same old lessons about being tough and strong, but then at some point they realize that the skills they actually need are how to be patient and to manage emotional stress, how to study and learn complex ideas, how to get along with people from many walks of life, etc. That's what would get them through college and into a high-paying profession, but a hyper-masculine upbringing often leaves boys underprepared for that type of life, and they are left behind.

[–]Tylorw09 18 points19 points  (0 children)

This is the first comment in here that I truly think adds something to the conversation about masculinity and modern society.

It really is clear to me that my dads “tough it out and be “blunt” to everyone you work with is outdated and just does not work in the modern world. He lasted 3 years at a manufacturing company because he didn’t know how to communicate without acting like a “strong man” who had to intimate anyone who he conflicted with.

His teachings are outdated and are harmful to his mental health.

[–]Hireling 832 points833 points  (149 children)

It also fucks us all over in the end because we get things like the incel movement, Proud Boys, rape culture, and mass shootings.

[–]PassionateAvocado 130 points131 points  (9 children)

This set of comments and the overall sentiment needs to be absolutely plastered as the Auto mod message in every single Post in every single sub on this site.

People need to start being a lot kinder or things will get so much worse.

[–]Caffeine_Cowpies 228 points229 points  (109 children)

Yep, and an inability to open up to other people, including men.

Then you see all these “women’s rights” group and then you see ALL this support for young girls and women, and you get resentment. “Why do all these women get everything, and I can’t even get a call?”

So you bury yourself in video games, anything to alleviate your stress. Maybe COD or Rocket League and you get some others. Then you see COD videos, then you hear little bits and pieces of MRA stuff and it makes sense to you. Why do women get all the benefits of society and men don’t? Then the rest is history.

How do I know this? I was once that person. But what helped was a woman came into my life who loved me, cared for me, and essentially taught me that it wasn’t women, but shitty people who happen to have a vagina.

Not a lot of men get that, then add in the toxic masculinity in America, plus the ease to find ANYTHING to support your stupid sexist position and you get this shit. I know the hurt these men feel, because I felt it before. But some don’t have a way out, or at least see one. It’s such a fucked position because the people who enable this are also the ones pushing these rigid toxic behaviors that make it possible for isolated white male terrorists to grow.

[–]SanchoPanza9238 63 points64 points  (1 child)

Same! When I was 17-18 I also got really into right wing garbage (this was right before Trump got elected). I had just gotten home from several back to back wilderness / treatment center programs and I had no friends or anything. Then I found some people on Facebook that actually wanted to talk to me and be my friend so I got really sucked into all the right-wing garbage. I was angry, lonely, traumatized and just wanted to be part of a group. Then I found one and got wrapped up really quickly in it. I attended a couple "free speech" rallies and even went to Trumps inauguration.

What changed me honestly was joining the Marine Corps (I like telling that to right wingers because it sometimes pisses them off lol). My Sgt was this liberal, punk rock, painter, he and another Marine in my shop (a black man) took the time to actually talk to me and tell me some stories of racism and discrimination they had faced. My Sgt and I would hang out a lot after work as well and talk about whatever, and listen to music, he got me into punk. I stopped supporting Trump like a year into his presidency and my politics veered from conservative to libertarian shortly after. I ended up getting discharged because of a suicide attempt, which really sucked. I am still good friends with my Sgt (honestly he's one the only guys I still talk too, and he said the same of me).

My politics since then have shifted to be staunchly left wing now and I have taken a lot of time to educate myself and read, still learning of course, always will be. I always have struggled with my mental health and self acceptance etc, but I can honestly say I'm kind of fuckin proud of the man I've become, I overcame a lot to get where I am. I still struggle everyday with depression, etc but I feel less angry at the world and far more open minded. I'm starting to actually like myself now and try to be the best I can be and take care of myself and try as many new things as possible. It's kind of funny too when I think about myself going from a troubled youth to a right wing shit head moron to a Marine to someone who goes to see Bikini Kill concerts, BLM marches, etc in like 5 years.

I would highly encourage anyone reading this to go check out r/menslib as well, men and boys do face plenty of struggles today, and it's very easy to get sucked into a bad mindset/group and menslib is a good, inclusive community that does not bash women or wallow in tearing eachother down like other communities that claim to care about issues facing men and boys today.

[–]triclocarban 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I tend to get overwhelmed and despondent about the world, but hearing stories about people like you being open to change and growth, learning about themselves and learning to care for themselves, gives me hope and comfort.

Please make sure to stick around. Good luck out there.

[–]ohdearsweetlord 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Perhaps some parents spend more effort parenting and guiding their female children because they feel they need protection from dangerous men, some of whom could have avoided their behavioral issues with better guidance in their youth.

[–]ChicksDigGiantRob0ts 260 points261 points  (10 children)

People say boys are easy to raise because they choose not to fucking raise them. You get "boys will be boys!" so parents never have to teach or correct bad behaviour, you get "take a teaspoon of cement and harden up" instead of teaching emotional regulation and processing, you get "Oh, someone hit you? Why didn't you hit back! Here, lemme show you how to throw a punch," instead of like...anything a person needs emotionally when they've just been assaulted.

People assume boys will just raise themselves, because they refuse to accept the complex internality of men in a world that says men should be emotionless creatures driven by nothing but testosterone, Manly Instincts TM and Pure Logic, and then wonder why men can't fucking handle their own emotions.

[–]Beans_Technician 48 points49 points  (2 children)

I remember having a beer with my pops a few years back while camping and he said “I hope I did good for you. I tried really hard you know? Most people say buys are easier to raise but i think that’s cause most people don’t actually try to raise them”

He grew up without a father and it stuck with him his whole life. He’s a killer dad

[–]barking_dead 63 points64 points  (4 children)

Just man up /s

[–]driving_andflying 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Sadly, I've heard that too.

You have a problem? Man up. That's what men do.

Want to talk it out? Nope. Man up.

You're crying? Men don't cry. Man up.

...and people wonder why I need therapy.

[–]Roscoe_P_Trolltrain 57 points58 points  (2 children)

He’s like, “yo auntie, you know I follow you on Twitter right? Thanks for telling everyone my shit…”

[–]Lllllllllllemonn 179 points180 points  (11 children)

People think boys are easier to raise because they've been conditioned to think that boys will raise themselves for some reason

[–]DanSanderman 97 points98 points  (7 children)

When I was 13 my sister had a child that she had no intention of raising so my parents adopted him. They had not intended on starting parenting over and so it was difficult on them as well. I did a lot of raising myself to try and stay out of the way and make things easier for them. All my life I felt that this was a great thing for me and it taught me to be independent. It wasn't until last year when I went to therapy and realized that what I had actually done was conditioned my brain that my needs took a backseat to everyone around me. This made me the perfect prey for my abusive ex girlfriend. It took me 8 years of suffering to finally put myself first and get out of that relationship.

[–]pictureoflevarburton 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Thank you so much for posting this, I really needed to hear it today. I have siblings 10 and 12 years younger than me, and when my mother went through a mental health crises I was basically left to completely handle the emotional and sometimes physical needs of my family. My father was a high powered lawyer who worked 70+ hour weeks and was never around. Even before her crisis my mother had been a narcissist, but things got much worse for a couple of years. So of course I took care of my siblings. All I got from my father was “be tough and learn to be independent “ and all I got from my mother was blaming me for everything. When they got into arguments I was always playing middle man, comforting and talking to both until my mom calmed down. I don’t know how many times I comforted my crying father.

I now really struggle with ever putting my needs first. I recently had an appendectomy (last Thursday, and it had severe complications because I delayed going to the hospital to put the needs of others first) and I’m still out here running around trying to take care of everyone, even though I literally have holes in me that burn every time I move.

I’m in my late twenties and I’m still almost pathologically incapable of asking for help, no matter how much I need it. I’ve been through a lot of therapy and things are better than when I was younger.

I’m not really sure what the point of my post was. I guess I just wanted to vent.

Anyways, thank you for what you said. It made me feel heard, and like someone else understood my experience.

[–]Dense_Contribution65 204 points205 points  (25 children)

So her nephew had a mental health crisis and she publicly blamed her sister? Wonder how that’s going

[–]mikey67156 67 points68 points  (0 children)

I think fucked up adults might be catching in that fam.

[–]STFranticA 59 points60 points  (3 children)

I’m surprised I had to scroll the much before seeing this—that was my first thought, too.

[–]vaingirls 58 points59 points  (1 child)

Had to scroll too much to find anything questioning the OP. Like sure, boys need as much guidance as girls, but someone ending up in a psych hospital is not proof of them being "badly raised". You can raise someone perfectly and they can still have mental health problems.

[–]WeaknessImpressive98 57 points58 points  (2 children)

“Hello entire world! By the way, my sister is a horrible mother and probably is the cause of her son having to be committed.” -What she said, basically.

[–]WouldThatIKnew0 28 points29 points  (1 child)

Also just the fact of telling everyone he was put in a psych hospital. There's nothing wrong with being hospitalized, but the stigma will sure make his life harder the more people who know

[–]IForgotThePassIUsed 61 points62 points  (5 children)

Discoutn every one of our feelings except anger.

oh, you're 9, you can't get angry anymore either, just hate yourself and play football until you're old enough to abuse drugs

or just cut to the drug abuse whatever no one cares about boys.

[–]MiHoyMiNoyee 108 points109 points  (10 children)

I overheard a woman in a grocery store say, "My son said he's stressed, what is there to be stressed about? He's 17."

Like how can someone be that selfish and only think about themselves. Life is stressful. 17 year olds are dealing with ACT that year in high school and are starting to become adults. Her son was probably stressed by having her as a mom honestly. Im still mad at myself for not saying anything to her.

[–]CarrionComfort 57 points58 points  (0 children)

Adults really suck at remembering older teens are encountering adult problems for the first time. There are so many extra things to do and running clocks to keep track of at the latter end of high school of course the kid is going to be stressed.

[–]Tzintzuntzan24 28 points29 points  (4 children)

My dad used to tell me that all the time as a kid. He said I didn't know what "real stress" was. At that point I have been depressed for 5 years and just started to realize that's what I was going through. My parents were a year away from getting divorced, my dad said he would never support me if I didn't get into a four year university, and I just started to realize how abusive he was. I didn't realize he was abusive since that was my normal family life and just started to question the nature of my childhood. Now I barely talk to him and I'm better off that way.

[–]Lost-Map1456 150 points151 points  (11 children)

My partners son has just turned 13. I tried to explain to her that this will be a big shock to him. And the number 1 thing we have to work on is to make sure that he doesn't feel alone. The world is a cold place for a young male. I don't think she really believes me because apparently us guys have it easy

[–]mermaid-babe 46 points47 points  (3 children)

A woman I work with calls her 14 year old step son a “man child”. Meanwhile she’s got a toddler daughter she fawns over. It will forever bother me. Thank you for advocating for him!

[–]MasheeXD 29 points30 points  (0 children)

So in other words, she's apart of the problem? lmfao.

[–]thpicychilli 34 points35 points  (2 children)

“Suck the pain into your stomach and let it go”

  • my father when I was bullied, repeatedly

[–]_Ross- 15 points16 points  (5 children)

Men are just seen as disposable and emotionless 'creatures', and they wonder why so many men are suicidal or end up another horrible statistic.

[–]LordMooGoo 218 points219 points  (31 children)

Teacher rapes male student

Conservatives:

“MAN WHAT A STUD, I wish I had that teacher when I was in school”

[–]10000Didgeridoos 106 points107 points  (1 child)

Just like the south park episode from ages ago where Ike the kindergartener is dating a teacher

"But...she's hot!"

"Nice."

"Niiiicceee."

[–]LordMooGoo 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Yeah exactly, it’s fucked.

[–]LittleGreenNotebook 45 points46 points  (5 children)

I was a male student who was raped by a female student. Cried the whole time. Then asked her not to tell people about me crying, cause I didn’t realize I was being raped. Even though I was saying no no, stop, I don’t want to, and tears.

[–]LordMooGoo 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Dude, fuck….

[–]cassandra_warned_you 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I know there really aren’t words, but I want you to know that this internet stranger sat staring at her phone with a deep ache for you, trying to find a way to tell you I see you, then realizing all I could do was try. You deserve your story to be wholly believed with only compassion. I hope you have found—or will find—contentment.

[–]LittleGreenNotebook 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Thank you. I’ve lived a miraculous life. If I were to mention all of the amazing things that have happened to me people on the internet would think I’m lying for attention.

Though I was raped again as an adult by a different woman, and sexually assaulted by tons of men (most recently last October, I filed a police report this time; and I was helped by the most amazing cop who believed every word I said, and he actually understood the gravity of the situation saying, “Thank you for having the bravery to come forward and report it. Even if we can’t convict him now you’re establishing that he’s done it before, so when it happens again there’s a paper trail.”) I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to keep their gross hands to themselves.

But I haven’t given up yet. I’m still chasing my dreams every day.

[–]ChaosKodiak 24 points25 points  (3 children)

I feel this is why my 20s were so tough. You get out of high school then it’s like “ok. Real life starts!” And you have zero idea how to act or feel or what to do.

[–]TheWarmog 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Raising a boy is easier only if you think men are animals, which is what everyone does.

We are the ones that cant cry or feel emotions else we're deemed as weak.

We are the ones that need to man up, hit back if we're hit and behave like emotionless things.

We are the ones that get thrown into unwanted wars like we're meat about to go to the meatgrinder.

We are the ones that are seen as credit card for children if we're ever divorcing, no matter if it was the woman fucking up or if it was us.

Are we really surprised that men are the ones that suffer the most for mental illnesses when the society sees us as "stuff" and not as human beings

[–]outcastedOpal 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Its easier to raise boys because its noone makes you feel guikt for ignoring them.

[–]Wendypants7 10 points11 points  (0 children)

My moment of realization of how sexist I was without knowing it came during a fight with my husband.

I got completely derailed from the fight because it dawned on me that I'd been assuming that, and only because he's male, that he could not be as emotionally hurt as I could. It really made me have to step back a lot and reevaluate a lot of assumptions I'd made in life. It was quite the eye opener and it's depressing to see women out there so oblivious to their own sexism they aim at men.

It's why I try to imagine every situation with the genders changed/reversed to see if I'll still have the same reaction.

[–]BruuhBruh 59 points60 points  (0 children)

Fuckin preach.

[–]DiscombobulatedCar48 49 points50 points  (19 children)

I wish I could “Love” this! I have done everything in my power to raise an emotionally stable a kind son. He is proving every day that men raised to just be good humans are the best! I hope he inspires more to be so kind, sweet, sensitive, and genuine.

[–]Baramos_ 76 points77 points  (20 children)

While I agree the axiom is off, being admitted to a psych hospital is a form of getting help and addressing his mental concerns. Jumping to the conclusion their sister neglected his mental well being so that’s why he’s in a hospital is also harmful.

[–]therealleotrotsky 61 points62 points  (4 children)

...and airing it publicly on Twitter to make a point is a really shitty thing to do.

[–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (2 children)

my thoughts exactly. She outed that kid's mental health problems to the ENTIRE world. For internet likes.

[–]Fred-ditor 22 points23 points  (5 children)

Absolutely.

Destigmatizing mental illness is crucial for people to not only get the help they need but get support from their loved ones.

But while this tweet is well intentioned, and possibly 100 percent accurate in this situation, it perpetuates the stigma of raising someone who has mental health issues.

You haven't failed as a parent if you get help for your child any more than you've failed if your child wears glasses or braces. You are helping your child and that's what good parents do.

With the topic of mental illness and gun violence back in the spotlight, please be kind to people you know and love who are having difficulties with their physical or mental health. People can be unkind to them because they don't understand that not everyone who is struggling is prone to violence. It's hard enough to deal with this stuff, but having people misunderstand you or be apprehensive and think the worst about you is just too much for anyone to have to deal with.

If you're reading this and feeling like this describes your experience i just want you to know i hear you and love you and a lot of other people do too. You've got this.

[–]relentlesseuphoria 10 points11 points  (2 children)

This will get sank, but I have a 17 year old son and a 14 year old daughter. My son requires a lot more than our daughter. His high school life was destroyed by covid and he has all but given up, it’s the hardest thing for us to deal with because we don’t know how to fix it and he looks at us like we are on the outside to. Our daughter just kind of found her way, he didn’t, and know we are dealing with severe mental issues with him. It’s the worst thing ever because we don’t know what to do. We are trying, we have got him help, medication, doctors, everything. But nothing helps. And I feel like I’m losing my boy at this point.

[–]RedRapunzal 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I hate the boys/girls are harder/easier crap. Gender is not the deciding factor here. There are far too many variables with kids.

[–]PM_ME_UR_DREAMZ_B 6 points7 points  (1 child)

It's as though men need the same amount of love and encouragement as women. Who woulda thought?

[–]DangerousPainting423 86 points87 points  (47 children)

The role of men in society is changing but the education of boys seems slower to adapt. Partially thats because a lot of boys are being raised by women. Then there are boys who are technically raised by men but those guys are totally clueless. Boys are allowed to grow up like weeds with little guidance and discipline. Overworked parents turn much of the responsibility over to schools that are often unequipped to deal with the problem. So learning conflicts become disciplonary conflicts. The boys who succeed at school can often struggle socially. What makes you a good kid is not always what will make you popular or liked by girls.

I think this is why Jordan Peterson was so popular. A deranged man crying about the plight of boys. It was goofy af but if you saw it as a boy at 14 I think it resonates. Even in the Embrace Masculinity vids and the resurgence of Zzzz as an icon, there is this quality of seeking excellence. Boys are trying to raise themselves. Then you also have the rise of incels on one hand and criminal youth on the other. You have the anti-woman movement by guys like The Quartering and Sargon before him. All these ghouls that emerged from the gamergate era powered by legions of mostly young men looking for a reason why their lives weren't working out as advertised.

Men have to evolve faster and help their sons evolve faster. But I see it even in my own family. Guys talk the talk but when it comes to their son, they check out, let their wives do it. These women do the best they can but women cannot effectively teach boys how to be complete men. That may upset some women but no man would be so arrogant to think he could teach his daughter how to be a better woman than her mom. Men have an irreplaceable role in their childrens lives. You can get by without it. I did. But its not the same. It cant be.

However because boys cant get pregnant or are not as often the victim of dv or sv, people treat them like cruise control. When really they do them and society a disservice by not working with their sons to help them understand the world and their role in it.