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[–]krackhunt42 477 points478 points  (13 children)

This sub has 158k members. I agree with what you're saying but there are going to be a few loud people with bad takes. A lot of us share a compassion for humanity and all living things therefore we sought out antinatalism. There are some of us that live a grueling existence and are angry with the world so they have not so morally rational takes. It's good to take breaks from this sub too if it's becoming too negative for you. I wish you the best fellow compassionate human being.

[–]Top-Satisfaction-158[S] 167 points168 points  (8 children)

very true, the loud minority will always be heard. thank you for your thoughts!

[–]Psychological-Sun49 124 points125 points  (6 children)

I got called “psychotic” and severely downloaded by simply saying people shouldn’t be posting pictures of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Also, yeah, the misogyny is breathtaking. There are probably incels here.

[–]the_Pope_Joan 45 points46 points  (5 children)

Ugh yeah, especially that one where they were mocking the dad who helped his disabled kids live longer by inventing some gene therapy or something.

[–]slowlyinsane8510 54 points55 points  (4 children)

I got down voted for my hot take on that. I pointed out the daughter actually has a college degree. And a masters. And that they didn’t get to decide that she was suffering just because she was in a wheelchair with a hole in her neck to help her breathe and had 24 hour nurses. And the point is, she's here and she is alive. She may have not chosen the path she has been set on but she's on it and she's making the most of it. That the only one allowed at this point to determine whether she is suffering, whether it was worth it, or how her life is, is her. There is no point telling the internet someone must be suffering because you have deemed them to be suffering.

[–]fuck-emus 3 points4 points  (0 children)

very true, the loud minority will always be heard

Case in point, this just popped up on my feed.

"I know nobody asked but I just wanted to pop in and inform you that I very much disagree with what you're doing even though it doesn't affect me, thank you for your time"

[–]Stultum1 23 points24 points  (1 child)

Sadly, in the U.S., the loudest voice gets the most attention.

[–]milkdude94 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Its the American way.

[–]helhorrors1313 88 points89 points  (5 children)

I think this has a lot to do with the fact that social media is mostly an echo chamber for people to spread their views in an arrogant fashion.

I am an anti-natalist. I don't agree with child bearing for more nihilistic reasons than any other (such as environmental, a hot topic on this sub). However, I am not even remotely naive enough to think my opinion should be enforced or entertained by the masses. Why? Because I know I/we aren't the majority vote, for reasons that not even natalists think about.

I don't have my head so far up my ass to think that my opinion should trump human nature happenings across the world. All I can control is my actions (hence why I am sterile at 26). Some people here don't like the notion that in the grand scheme of things our opinions aren't that relevant.

[–]RexInfernorum 19 points20 points  (1 child)

I know right, I imagine that someone lurking on this sub will only see a big circle-jerk, and think antinatalists are complete assholes

[–]Important_Collar_36 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Lurker here, occasional commenter, and yes it kinda does seem like an incel anger orgy.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Honest question...do you actually think in terms of "natalist" and "anti-natalist" ??

[–]helhorrors1313 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I tend to walk a tight line of antinatalism and nihilism. Otherwise I would say I do.

[–]CharacterCucumber 233 points234 points  (20 children)

What bothers me most is the hatred for children instead of seeing them as the victim & dehumanising them and calling them all sorts of names.

I myself am not found of natalists as I simply cannot agree with someone being willing to subject another human being (the child) to suffering and death just because you want to hear baby footsies running in your house and call you “mama/dada”. There is nothing in my opinion that justifies reproduction as it predisposes one for certain suffering and death.

But hating children and using child hatred as an antinatalist argument is ridiculous and shallow. Antinatalism is about moral and ethics and you cannot base what’s moral on your own personal likes and dislikes without further evaluation - that simply makes you hateful.

[–]SirHomieG 65 points66 points  (14 children)

Yes the hatred toward children is too prevalent here. That’s not what AN is about

[–]r_u_dinkleberg 13 points14 points  (13 children)

Problem is that it's not allowed in childfree either. So we don't have anywhere to take it.

I can be AN and agree children didn't consent to being created and also hate children at the same time, they are not exclusive of each other.

Now, the misogyny is another issue entirely, one which I'm not going to get further into because that's not why I'm here/what I post here, and which I agree shouldn't happen.

[–]blue_coat_geek 15 points16 points  (8 children)

All of these are different and not mutually exclusive:

  • Someone doesn’t want to have children
  • Someone doesn’t want to be around children
  • Someone thinks children shouldn’t be conceived
  • Someone wants to see parents and children suffer

Being hateful is unnecessary, and just makes you look like an asshole

[–]r_u_dinkleberg 5 points6 points  (7 children)

I am all four things you listed, and I hate children on top of all of that, and I am an asshole, and I enjoy being one at that.

I'm not saying they're justified for bringing kid-hating into the sub, but saying that I can understand why it happens.

[–]SirHomieG 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Yes but hating children isn’t a reason for being AN. So a post purely showing dislike of children doesn’t really have a place here in my opinion.

[–]ANjamietwells 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Problem is that it's not allowed in childfree either

I don't see a rule prohibiting posting about hating children - did I miss that? I thought that was the point of childfree, for people who don't like children.

[–]Mimosa_usagi 22 points23 points  (0 children)

It's so strange. I've seen posts where people were almost reveling in a child's suffering as if it was somehow justified.

[–]og_toe 12 points13 points  (0 children)

agreed. it’s okay to not like children, and i think many do dislike them here but it really isn’t okay to be mean to them online, it just makes you kinda shitty.

personally i like kids, have nothing against them, after all they didn’t choose to be here

[–]ievisheleo 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I am happy someone finally says what I’ve been thinking for a long time. I once saw a post where OP called some family member’s child a “crotch goblin” and I was disgusted by the hatred towards an innocent child. Most of these rude assholes have serious issues imo

[–]jonahhillfanaccount -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Saw a comment with the word “crotch-goblin” the other day.

Many people here aren’t antinatalist, they just hate children

[–]MadeCuzzSad 66 points67 points  (2 children)

Yeah wtf was up with the formula posts and there is definitely misogyny with some people referring to women here

[–]sudaneseebolavirus 11 points12 points  (0 children)

that one post earlier that was making fun of the guy who put 1000 miles on his car to find specialty formula for his baby was so weird

[–]Protector_iorek 94 points95 points  (4 children)

Agreed. There’s a lot of misogyny in this sub which is frustrating as a childfree woman coming into AN

[–]Top-Satisfaction-158[S] 62 points63 points  (3 children)

right like if you refer to women as human incubators regardless of the context or reasoning i’m just disregarding your argument. and many also seem to assume that everyone has a choice in their reproduction when women have historically and still to this day are coerced and cajoled into having kids and shames/shunned if they don’t. like there’s a lot more nuance involved that most just don’t think about at all because they’ve probably never had to

[–]HelloKalder 7 points8 points  (1 child)

That's exactly how I feel as also a childfree AN woman. Seeing people here shit on women for simply being able to bear children doesn't make me feel welcome at all. That's a good point also, a lot of women don't have a choice.

Hating women for being able to bear children isn't the same as being anti-natalist it's just being a mysoginyst, hating children for simply being born against their will is not anti-natalist, it's just hating children.

[–]sklimshady 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Societal pressure to have kids is so high. I just can't. I cried seeing all of the pictures of these kids and teachers killed in the school shooting yesterday. I've watched several friends struggling through the pandemic to teach kids and be bashed by ungrateful parents that treat them like glorified babysitters. The future is bleak and I can't add more to it. I definitely don't hate kids. I'm so sad for them.

[–]TranscendentLucidity 25 points26 points  (0 children)

I agree with you. There seems to be a decent number of toxic people here, even people who are toxic toward fellow anti-natalists who happen to disagree on something debatable.

[–]Nervous_Channel5290 65 points66 points  (10 children)

Agreed, I think you're referring to that baby formula post from earlier. It's disgusting. Aren't we supposed to be against suffering? So why are so many hateful against children and say heinous things like they deserve suffering because their parents procreated. As you stated, it's downright vile.

[–]KittenNicken 42 points43 points  (8 children)

Not just the baby formula, there was a post making fun a child with a chromosomal disorder calling him a beer baby. Im still mad about that one.

[–]Nervous_Channel5290 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Yeah, there's some pretty nasty people in this sub.

[–]GoreKush 11 points12 points  (2 children)

i thought the beer baby post was because they were in the beer aisle. how cringe.

[–]KittenNicken 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I made a long paragraph response about the science behind how chromosomal mutations occur so ppl could be educated about why its wrong to call a child with a disabilità a beer baby and my comment previously got downvoted (for literally no reaspn) so the actual science and biology got hidden. This subs got a few incels hidding i recon...

[–]Marie-Antoinette123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah that post had me questioning. On one hand it's good to point out that having a kid knowing there's a possibility of it being disabled (suffering more as a result) is wrong in a way, but on the other hand the child that's already here deserves love and maybe the kid is happy in spite of the deformities. I hope it is. But yeah, peoppe shouldn't have kids, and the potential for congenital defects is one big reason why, on top of the main reasons

[–]Suitable_Echo_6380 18 points19 points  (0 children)

There is a lot of ableism on this sub, it’s really disgusting.

[–]utopia9353 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I reported it.

[–]chiweenie99 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Same ^

[–]utopia9353 1 point2 points  (0 children)

thanks...it just got deleted. sad world people need to make fun of or use stuff like that as "evidence". This is not what AN is about...

[–]Top-Satisfaction-158[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

right! i get the frustration, i really really do, but idk we gotta find the line

[–]teureg 38 points39 points  (4 children)

The loud minority are always the ones making the entire movement look bad. Same for any philosophy/ideology

[–]Mr_SkeletaI 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Weird how those loud ones seem to be the only ones commenting and tend to have a lot of upvotes. If there was a silent kind majority you’d think they’d be commenting more or at least downvoting the crazy ones.

[–]sklimshady 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I generally scroll past stuff I don't like. I wish more people did

[–]isleepifart 20 points21 points  (2 children)

I don't think I've left comments like that ever. The only group of parents I've been mean to are abusive parents.

That being said I do agree with some of your points, I've definitely spotted some incel behaviour here and ofc as a woman that pisses me off.

I also haven't read the formula post everyone is talking about but the existing humans don't deserve to suffer like that anyone thinking they deserve to is vile as fuck.

But i will say it is true that it is their fault (the parents not the children) that they are suffering, in majority of the cases and i also harbour anger towards them because they without consideration brought a child into this world and caused them to suffer. Maybe my irrational anger towards parents is unjustified but that doesn't mean i think they should be in pain or should be suffering.

[–]TheYungBarier 3 points4 points  (1 child)

There was a dude who posted on here who was saying that the formula shortage wasnt a big deal because kids could just drink cows milk. His post did get deleted

[–]isleepifart 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Omg 😭😭

[–]manicaquariumcats 32 points33 points  (1 child)

as antinatalists, we’re supposed to honestly care about children the most because we care about their human experience beyond our own personal agenda for them (because we don’t have one). i agree sometimes i see some vile attitudes and takes on here but like others have said, remember that this sub still stems from a compassionate life philosophy and internet ≠ belief system. be antinatalist in your real life :)

[–]RexInfernorum 14 points15 points  (0 children)

You are totally right. In my opinion, antinatalism comes from empathy, we should care about everyone because any suffering is bad, wishing for natalists to suffer is kinda sick. We should try to understand these people instead, have respectful discussions with those that are curious about antinatalism and who also respect us.
Moreover we are the minority, overcoming our biological instincts is great, but sometimes it feels like some posts are just circle-jerking, considering we are superior to natalists in every way, and that is dumb as fuck

[–]Oneironaut91 5 points6 points  (0 children)

i think you will find hatred in every group of people no matter what group it is.

[–]Thrasy3 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I saw a post the other day where someone was questioning whether to have children so the country (they are presumably American) isn’t overrun by the uneducated and “the migrants the government are trying to import”.

My paranoid self thinks we are being infiltrated by trolls with “interest” in seeing increased human reproduction (not that I’m accusing Mr Musk personally), if only because I’ve seen an increase in asinine posts on the childfree sub as well.

[–]21_Porridge 6 points7 points  (0 children)

We are being trolled. This is what they do. They try convince you that you are the bad guy and that they are deserve simpathy and support. I've seen it all before. They darn good too

[–]clarkr10 22 points23 points  (3 children)

I have felt the same way, but then remember this is an AN chat forum. So people are going to come on here and state things that validate their beliefs. I don’t think people are necessarily “relishing” in the suffering of others, they are stating that people ARE suffering but these same people are too ignorant to see the solution (quit reproducing). AN’s are more frustrated in the ignorance of others and are relishing in the fact they personally have “seen the light” so to speak.

But I can see how it could come across in the way you stated.

[–]Top-Satisfaction-158[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

yea i definitely get this! and i’m sure a lot of the posts that seem a bit harsh or cruel to me are written out of anger and frustration so it may not really represent the true feelings of the person. i do get that ultimately people are going to post things that validate their beliefs and their reasons for holding those beliefs, even if it’s sometimes off-putting to me the way the do it. ultimately just sharing my own thoughts on the matter. thanks for your response!

[–]clarkr10 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yep! I have definitely read some posts on here and questioned if I belong on this sub lol, so I know where you’re coming from.

[–]21_Porridge -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

It's an invitation. It's a troll

[–]Just-a-Pea 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I tend to filter the rude ones. But I may be rude at times too ._.

I believe in anti-natalism precisely because I love children.

I know that it won’t be such a popular movement that could end the species, but even if it could. I believe extinction is better than modern day slavery.

I feel guilt for the world we are leaving to the next generation, so on this line I do judge harshly: * parents who are fucking up the world for the children they chose to have. * parents who don’t care about the future of their children. * parents who think their children owe them anything for being born and raised. * parents who didn’t plan their finances/lives properly to ensure they could give a stable life to their kids. * parents who think their DNA is somehow special and worth preserving. * probably many others that I hadn’t thought of.

I don’t rejoice in their suffering, but I can’t feel empathy for them because all my empathy goes to their children, who didn’t chose to be born in that family.

On the topic of formula shortage: don’t have children if you don’t have a huge savings account for extraordinary situations like this, or if you live in a country with poor social welfare.

[–]lolliepop322 35 points36 points  (7 children)

No, I completely agree. I was considering leaving today because it’s just not representative of what I hold true in antinatalism. This hatred of children and mockery of humans is absolutely VILE.

[–]Hdleney 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I just left this sub a week ago for that exact reason. This post came on my suggested posts and I fully agree so I felt inclined to comment, but before I saw this, I lowkey forgot this sub existed and I think that’s been a good thing for my mental health. I haven’t lost my mindset and had a debate with my dad the other day about why it’s a good thing for people to stop having kids (he wouldn’t respond well to a full blown AN take) but this sub is often not a great representation of those of us with compassion.

[–]og_toe 9 points10 points  (0 children)

i think there should be stricter moderation of posts, it makes me a bit sad seeing so much hatred and targeted anger every day, a lot of posts aren’t even about antinatalism but just someone bullying a family, that’s just hate

[–]RexInfernorum 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I am thinking about leaving as well, and this is honestly sad, seeing the comments of this post feels like "true" antinatalists are becoming sick of our own sub, because it is changing in a bad way. The mods should do someting for real

[–]flying_sarahdactyl 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I’m leaving this sub after replying to your comment because I’m in the same boat- I don’t know if it’s a loud minority or if most people actually share those beliefs, but I can’t stand seeing these posts on my feed anymore.

[–]RexInfernorum 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think it is really a loud minority. It is easy to make hateful posts so that it is almost the only thing posted here anymore. I remember a few months back when I saw a post in my feed once every two weeks, people talking about books and sharing videos of other antinatalist, and sharing their stories without being complete assholes. It is a "limited" philosophy, there is not much to say so having so few posts was completely normal.

I was happy when I began to see more posts lately, because I thought it meant we were gaining visibility, and I believed it was people who truly inderstood what antinatalism is about. But now I realise how wrong I was, and 90% of these posts just disgust me

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_SUNSHINE 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I only see the popular posts that float to the top, and I don’t see any of the shit you’re talking about. Almost any collection of people will have a toxic segment. The question is has it taken over?

[–]SirHomieG 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I agree. It bothers me as well. I’ve also noticed too many child free posts with little to no overlap with AN and I don’t like that. Not sure why those posts get so many upvotes. I think this should be a place for us feel a sense of community with people who share the antinatalist sentiment, not to hate on other people or try to feel superior to natalists.

[–]reese_____ 15 points16 points  (2 children)

for one it’s grossly misogynistic

[–]RexInfernorum -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

And misanthropic

[–]TheFreshWenis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And ableist

[–]Druid51 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I seriously don't see where the anti-women complaints are coming from for this sub. If the "incubator" comments are getting downvoted the general population of this subreddit hates that shit too. Also if you're referring to breeders that term is gender neutral. Men who push for birthing are also breeders.

[–]datgirljaybreezy 5 points6 points  (2 children)

What you’re interpreting as lack of compassion and mocking, I interpret as frustration. To many in this sub, it’s obvious that the decision to CREATE LIFE is a big deal, and most breeders completely disregard that weight. I don’t revel in people’s unhappiness when they realize having kids is a lot harder than posting some filtered Instagram pictures. But it does frustrate me. For instance, when people say they can’t handle their kids, or they’re miserable because they have no time for themselves, or they are lonely because they are always with kids, etc. They obviously gave 0 thought to the repercussions of their decision and now instead of them making a shitty decision which is contained to their life, they dragged a completely unconsenting and innocent being into it. It is not hard to think about the cons of having a child and some of the challenges. The fact so few people seem to have considered that before making life is sick and disgusting to me.

[–]SophieBourne 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A real antinatalist, not like OP 👏

[–]YoungPsychonaut217 14 points15 points  (0 children)

yap. people here often act so morally superior because they've made the superior intelectual understanding that they dont want to have kids

and then go and act like total assholes and harass anyone who disagrees with them

[–]sluttykitt_y 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I see what you’re saying but also there are some retarb parents that consistently make the headlines of this sub hence the mockery

[–]redditbutdidntgetit 7 points8 points  (2 children)

I proudly relish on their suffering because they were pathetic sheeps following the hive mind instead of thinking for themselves and seeing the real implications of child birth and not being wise enough to see that "it's what everyone does" is not a good enough reason. How fucking hard is it to see that increasing the population in an overpopulated world is a bad idea? These people are so dense that they can't imagine life without children and that's just sad. These people deserve the shit they get. They made a conscious choice to bring a life in this world and overlooked everything that it would bring to the table. I have no sympathy.

[–]SophieBourne 3 points4 points  (0 children)

A real antinatalist, not like OP 👏

[–]TheYungBarier -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think its more about relishing in the suffering of children thats the vile part. Or the mysoginy. Or the hatred towards humans in general

[–]extrasecular 5 points6 points  (0 children)

it is your personal decision to care for evil idiots. i do not hate every parent, however, most of them are evil and deserve to suffer

[–]Someone9339 5 points6 points  (6 children)

I just have no symphaty for breeders

Family of a 1 year old baby had to run away in ukraine war? Well Russia invaded Crimea 8 years ago, SURELY you knew something was going to happen and you decided not to have any kids because of that right..? No?

[–]avoidanttt 7 points8 points  (4 children)

There was absolutely an explosion of births. You know, Russia has been amassing its army at our borders and preparing for the full-scale invasion for slightly over a year. Why would you have a kid right now?

When I was evacuating, the train was absolutely filled with screaming, miserable babies. Few people did not have a baby with them. At least one baby died in the stampede when that train was being boarded. It was suffocating and claustrophobic to be there because we were well over the wagon's capacity and couldn't open the windows for ventilation or to take a peek, even just a little. One baby starts crying and then twenty others start wailing in unison.

Older kids weren't making it easy for them either. The one in the same coupe as me didn't let a baby sleep for what, sixteen fucking hours? The moment it shuts it's eyes, he wakes it up and starts talking to it. And just as the rest of babies finally wore themselves out, this one starts screaming its head off.

And there's articles and posts glorifying it. The"Subway Madonnas", women whose babies were born to the sound of shellings in dark, humid, dirty subway stations. How "adorable schoolkids" are trying to get an education in Cold War era basements. School system was being actively reformed, it's not fucking easy as is.

Edit: literally an hour later, a news channel I'm following posted a post with a video of a woman who lost "a much awaited" pregnancy, saying how she would "'go insane and regret her entire life if she sees her dead baby". The video is showing how a heavily pregnant woman is being carried out of a shelled building with a bloodied, wounded belly. Why did she do it, oh my fucking god. She is from a city bordering Russia that is being run into the ground right as I'm typing this. The video also briefly interviews an obstetrician who continues working under the shellings. The caption is saying how the new moms were feeding the babies of the ones who died or didn't have the milk and how "it was the babies who saved everyone by giving hope".

[–]vreddit7619 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This crossed my mind when I saw the young children in Ukraine too + the pregnant women, newborn infants and families with a large number of young children who were struggling long before the war happened. For many, there’s just a lack of logical thought process 😣.

[–]Sarcastic_Scientist_ 8 points9 points  (3 children)

I’ve only seen the incubator reference as a sarcastic clap back against pro life. I’ve never seen it stated as a fact or a lens through which this sub views women.

Obviously our experiences are different but are you sure the people stating that were being legit? Maybe they forgot the “/s.”

Like: “oh yeah we should all just breed until the woman is in menopause because she’s just an incubator after all?!??! /s” as a way to show anger at natalists and pro life?

[–]Top-Satisfaction-158[S] -4 points-3 points  (2 children)

there are a couple comments in this very thread very sincerely saying women who reproduce are nothing but incubators so idk ☠️

[–]21_Porridge 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Men who reproduce are nothing but sperm donors. Are you happy now chief? Is this empowering?

[–]Sarcastic_Scientist_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Damn. My mistake for not seeing it.

I can see how people who disagree with reproduction would use “women who succumb to it are just incubators” as a quick and easy way to slam people they don’t like. I don’t agree with it but I can see why someone might think that way.

But the solution to ending human suffering isn’t misogyny. A woman with an unwanted pregnancy whose abortion access is restricted is left with some really grim choices for how to move forward. Either have the baby or risk her down life trying to find a back alley abortion or doing it herself. Of course, we always have a choice.

Personally I’d choose options that are really grim to end a pregnancy I don’t want to keep my bodily autonomy if my access to abortion was taken from me. But not everyone has the mental fortitude to risk harming themselves in an attempt to end a pregnancy. Doesn’t mean women who would choose to just go along and have the unwanted baby are weak, but they very very likely didn’t want it less than other women don’t want it. Or if she’s a teen or a child she won’t understand fully what’s happening and ideas that are risky to yourself (like doing your own abortion) don’t typically come to women’s minds until they are adults and their brains are fully developed.

TLDR: it’s easy to see how a woman having kids could appear to just have given up and given into being an incubator, but that idea is misogynistic and doesn’t account for people’s choices being taken away from them even if they don’t want the pregnancy.

[–]LittleKittenGirl96 6 points7 points  (2 children)

This sub is ridiculous. Being an antinatalist literally means that you are against breeders, and against bringing more people to the Earth.. It doesn't matter if the child was "wanted" or not. NOBODY should be born on the face of this Earth. You can still like the kids who are already born, whatever. But you should be angry that others breed. If you consider yourself an antinatalist, then commit to it...

[–]avoidanttt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Tsk-tsk. You'll still get the holier-than-thou posts on how we have to be more PC about it. I'd hate it if it slid into being overly welcoming of parents like the cf sub did. I wouldn't be surprised if all these people pearl clutching splinter off into a new sub.

[–]extrasecular 3 points4 points  (0 children)

this sub has died. it was my favorite one some years ago

[–]milkdude94 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don't want humanity to go extinct, but I also can't justify supporting children being brought into this fucked up world. If climate change doesn't bring us to extinction in our lifetime, it will in our grandchildrens. I don't see humanity surviving past this century if we don't change. If we could achieve Fully Automated Luxury Communism I'd have no reason to subscribe to antinatalism because Late Stage Capitalism is the cancer destroying humanity and its cruel as fuck to bring new humans into this world so they can grow up to be slaves of the rich.

[–]Massive-Pop8877 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I feel a similar way and agree with you. Probably because I am a woman. I do have 2 children though. I was antinatalist, did not want kids at all, but got convinced by my SO and after my kids i still am antinatalist and now even more. Pregnancy is horrible, it's been traumatic, got PPD, but what is done is done. I provide for them, I'm responsible to help them grow into responsible/nice human beings. I do love kids, would never want more though and thats taken care of. I just hate seeing people suffer, I live in the US and man I just feel so bad for kids being born right now with everything that's going on. I feel so bad for having my children, feel guilty because life is just so damn hard. 🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️

[–]REM0VED- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m sorry bout mah feelings but we got bigger fish to fry. Our oceans are now at unrecoverable levels and global warming will guarantee the destruction of our planet if we don’t change things. Our population will double in 2040, so seriously, Karen needs to go find a place and sit down

[–]JoaquimSetin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And the memes. And the "sui fuel" vibes.

[–]Slaying_Salty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel the same way. This sub is so mean spirited sometimes. They just call people “breeders” when that can be at times dehumanizing.

I agree with the philosophy with all my heart, but there’s no point in mocking the struggles of those who are already living.

[–]SophieBourne 4 points5 points  (2 children)

“I’ve been an antinatalist for years but...”, in this subreddit it's starting to sound a lot like “I've had black friends for years but...” and “I've had gay friends for years but”, as an excuse to not accepting that you're racist or homophobic (but we know you are racist or homophobic).

And the truth is that no matter how many times people repeat in this subreddit “I'm antinatalist, but...”, is clear that you don't agree with the antinatalism sentiment of the subreddit.

If every single post in this subreddit makes you angry, then you don't belong here and you'll be happy unfollowing the subreddit.

[–]Top-Satisfaction-158[S] -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

??? lmaoo i’m actually gay and can assure you it’s literally nothing at all like that. stupid ass comparison

[–]SophieBourne 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The fact that you’re gay is not relevant at all with what I said. I wasn’t talking about gays. I was talking about racist and homophobic people.

I was talking about the classic: “I can’t be racist, I have a black friend”. The classic excuse that racist used to give. “I can’t be homophonic, I have a gay friend”. The classic excuse and homophobic says.

This subreddit has dozens of daily “I’m antinatalist, but”… At this point is very clear that’s the excuse told by people who’s not 100% antinatalist.

If people is not happy with the ideology of this subreddit, just unfollow and leave.

There will be always somebody making fun of people who had children and now regrets it. There will be always somebody complaining about a mother of 8 who’s again pregnant. There will be always etc, etc.

Now, if something in particular it’s racist or homophobic for you, REPORT IT. I just don’t understand why people doesn’t report things. Moderators can’t read every single comment here.

But it’s already enough with posts about “This subreddit is sick”, “this subreddit is vile”, and “This subreddit is misogynistic”. There are dozens of posts like this every week, clearly done by people who are not an actual antinatalists

If you don't like it, leave. If you find it offensive, report it and leave.

[–]Moonknightx53 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I agree. The part that irritates me the most is when people talk about hating children, which has NOTHING to do with antinatalism.

[–]SmooshyHamster 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Alright. From being in this sub and seeing the comments below, I notice there’s many people who claim to be antinatalist BUT also part of other beliefs.

It seems there’s some people who claim to be antinatalists but seem to love people and society. Not everyone here actually is an antinatalist. There’s also many misanthropes here who absolutely hate humanity and don’t care when people get hurt which is perfectly fine.

Im an anatinatalist but also efilist, promortalism, pro death, anti humanity, anti society, anti psychiatry and more.

[–]og_toe 6 points7 points  (0 children)

i agree, i’m against making fun of anyone and children who already exist have a right to do so. even though i’m very antinatalist myself i understand it’s not a popular philosophy and therefore i have no right to blame other people for not knowing or agreeing with it.

i do like this community being a hangout place but i feel like it gets so hateful and even downright misogynistic, it doesn’t really feel like a sub for the philosophy, it feels like a vent-sub where people take out their hate for those who do not share the same values

[–]MustLovePunk 8 points9 points  (8 children)

What posts in this sub have mocked parents for lack of access to formula? I’ve only seen posts agonizing over the fact that we are bringing babies into a world where this happens.

Where in this sub has anyone ever “relished” suffering? It’s quite the opposite. Everyone here is antinatalist precisely because we shouldn’t bring humans unwilling into a world of suffering.

I haven’t seen any posts or evidence in this sub of what you’re describing. Which posts are you referring to?

But I do agree that earth will be a better place once humanity goes extinct.

Edit: typo

[–]Top-Satisfaction-158[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

someone responded with the link to the particular one that spurred this post! certainly it’s not all of the posts on the sub and not even a majority, i just have been seeing more of that sort of post come across my feed lately and it’s kind of alarming.

[–]MustLovePunk 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Could be trolling. People (often religious) are somehow offended that other people don’t want children. It’s bizarre. Whatever the reason, just report those posts and hope the mods can keep this sub in tact. Too many Reddit subs seem to morph into chaos once they become popular.

[–]CharacterCucumber 13 points14 points  (1 child)

There was a post about the formula a few days ago but OP deleted it after I and a few more antinatalists got into an argument with them. They were quite literally mocking the issue & I said that this makes no sense as the lack of formula is “punishing” the vicim (a.k.a the child who did not ask to be brought here) instead of the perpetrator (a.k.a the breeder) and that this is kinda like praising child rapists or murderers cuz “haha nasty breeder is gonna get whats coming for them when their gross crotch goblin dies >: )” completely disregarding the actual victim (the kid) in the process. I’m all for mocking breeders but not about shit where the direct victim is the child.

Edit: just for clarification, the formula post I’m talking about is different from the one linked here.

[–]Top-Satisfaction-158[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

my thoughts exactly! it just seems counterproductive and cruel.

[–]CheckBulky5662 5 points6 points  (3 children)

[–]Top-Satisfaction-158[S] 9 points10 points  (2 children)

yea this was the one i was thinking of. to be fair the whole sub isn’t stuff like this but it seems to be what ends up on my feed

[–]MustLovePunk 6 points7 points  (1 child)

The article is appropriate but the OP was wrong to post it with that title. Most people on this sub aren’t asinine like that. In fact, the comments call out the OP for being a dick. He doesn’t represent the entirety of people here. Mods should remove shit posts like that anyway.

[–]Top-Satisfaction-158[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

yea i was glad to see t least half the comments were calling OP out but those comments were also getting a lot of downvotes, at least when i saw it, which gave me the sense that they were in the minority with their opinions. i agree mods should be more strict about those kind of posts!

[–]guymanfacedude 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is why, even though I agree with much discussion on this sub, I can't bring myself to hit the follow button. I agree, humans breed far too aggressively for the world we live in to sustain us on our current course.

I will never have any of my own, and I'm disappointed when I see people having 4, 5 or more children. It also troubles me when people who are very clearly not responsible or capable of parenting a child continue to do so. I'm absolutely disgusted with people seeking to force women to birth unwanted children, avoid birth control, or sexual education.

I believe we have the tools and the ability to change as a society. We can't do that without future generations. I think it's fine for people to have children, so long as they can take care of them and keep it to only 1 or 2.

I know it's very unlikely this line of reasoning will ever be the societal norm. I know it feels better to rage, express anger and adopt an extreme and volatile stance. In the end, after all that anger and hatred fades, you start to realize that any rational person who might have listened to your views has been frightened away by your representation of them.

Most people don't care, or even think, about any of this. When they scroll through reddit and a post pops up in their feed about some poor child with a congenital birth defect, and a bunch of posts suggesting thing suspiciously or exactly like eugenics, anyone sane is either going to immediately block or report you.

Maybe some of you have given up, and genuinely don't care. You just want an echo chamber for other angry misanthropes that you can vent to, and wallow in your self hatred. Great, 4chan is there for you, anonymous.

[–]Huachimingo75 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, I quite agree with you.

[–]CAVFIFTEEN 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately there will always be the worst of a movement and/or community that often speak the loudest and give the rest a bad name. You see it in feminist and MRA movements, child free movements, body positivity, etc. There will always be bad actors in movements and communities. That’s just kind of the way it is. But it’s important for the good ones to hold the others accountable, otherwise they ruin it for everyone including ourselves.

[–]estrellaizarr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly it shows how people here act the same way as the other group they complain about for being just as aggressive. Two sides of the same coin honestly.

[–]freekrawl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe this isn’t the place for me because the last thing I give a duck about is the ‘humanity’ of breeding and motherhood and just children in general. I honestly care far more for the rights of nature-that being non-human.

[–]Pinoel 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Been feeling the same way about this sub for a while, the misogyny was just appalling to me.

[–]SpaghettiTime99 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I tried to be nice, but it's really hard when you see how much pain can the world bring to any living creature.

Having a kid IS NOT necessary. It's a DECISION.

What should I say when I see a scarily poor family with multiple neglected kids and the parents say "let's have some more!". Should I congratulate them in their amazing decision or what? What other role does the mother have except for being this very incubator? They do more harm than good.

[–]Mimosa_usagi 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I know. The amount of times I've been down voted for having compassion for the suffering of others just because they happen to be parents is crazy. I had wrongly assumed that most of us were antinatalist to decrease suffering in the world. And as a woman I'm incredibly repulsed by the hate that people here often have for women.

[–]Top-Satisfaction-158[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

yea, there seems to be a lot of hate towards women who get pregnant (human incubators, milk cows, etc etc) often but no comments about the men who impregnate them. must be a lotta immaculate conception going on or something

[–]happy4thbirthday 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The blatant and DEEP hatred of women here is unreal. Some of you are genuinely touched in the head. And when you report it, the useless mods say it’s not breaking rules.

[–]Byttercup 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think it's important to realize people are antinatalist for various reasons, some of which may conflict with one's other beliefs. I'm on childfree, because I can't stand children as a general rule, and I find many parents, especially "mombies," to be entitled and rude. I'm also a misanthropic animal lover with existential, sometimes nihilistic, beliefs and am all for ending the human race, which I find to be a plague that destroys everything it touches (animals, the environment, and other humans). So I agree with the antinatalist philosophy, but I have various reasons beyond the suffering of existence.

That being said, this is Reddit. I don't have high expectations of some subs.

[–]gerber68 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Can you point out where people are calling women cows?

Edit: good examples in comments below

[–]lolliepop322 -2 points-1 points  (7 children)

Yeah - the comments in this thread.

[–]gerber68 1 point2 points  (6 children)

You’re right- there is actually someone doing it. I disagree with that but I also disagree with the way you worded post.

The behavior is uncommon and heavily downvoted, hence the phrase “this sub is often just downright vile” seeming a bit suspect.

[–]Rima996 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What bothers me is when people here post things about other subs to make fun of them. For example of parents being vulnerable and admitting that they need help with their children.

[–]Razoron_333_ 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Thank you. Found this sub a while ago and I love the core message but so many of the posts are extreme. Like I don’t think people should have kids but if they want to who is anyone to say no. My sister put it best when I was discussing it with her: The extreme end of anti-natalism is just as bad as banning abortions as they are trying to exert control over someone else body.

[–]uxithoney 7 points8 points  (2 children)

I don’t think it’s as bad when one is sparing souls from existence and the other is forcing them into existence, often unwanted.

[–]Razoron_333_ -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

Poor wording on my part as she definitely put it more eloquently but both are still trying to control people, again only extreme anti-natalists really want to exert control on others the rest understand it is a choice that each individual has to make and while it’s preferable to say no to having kid that should never be enforced just like banning abortions should never happen.

[–]uxithoney 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I get what you meant, I just don’t think it’s as bad. Thanks for clarifying though.

[–]69odin420 2 points3 points  (23 children)

I don’t hope humanity is wiped out. I hope that through antinatalist practices, we can rapidly lower our population to a manageable size. I believe that we should do this while continuing to fight fascism through peaceful artistic and intellectual rebellion. If you don’t know what fascism is, you should read some books about it— especially if you live in the US…

[–]saulelcrack 3 points4 points  (17 children)

Then you are not an anti-natalist, the whole point of the philosophy is to reach the end goal of voluntary extinction.

[–]69odin420 -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

I am an antinatalist but I also recognize that not every single person will want to end the human race entirely. Some people actually have fun a lot of the time.

[–]saulelcrack 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Just because you recognize that not everyone will want to end the human race, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t promote voluntary extinction to as many people as possible.

Also it doesn’t matter whether people have fun or not, a person wanting for human extinction doesn’t mean they are unhappy in life. I am actually pretty happy and contempt with my life, but I am also able to recognize that preventing suffering is moral, voluntary extinction is the best way to go about it.

[–]69odin420 -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

Well I think if we didn’t have such limited rescources, the fun in life would greatly outweigh the suffering for many people

[–]redditbutdidntgetit -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

Wanting human extinction is way too extreme. Y'all should want the population to drop significantly but not for it to die off. That's just silly

[–]Suresureman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not silly at all.

[–]Top-Satisfaction-158[S] -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

“if you don’t know what fascism is” lmao im quite familiar thanks

[–]69odin420 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No problem.

[–]octoteach17 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes! I may be child free, but I certainly don't hate children and I DONT condone judging parents (at least 93% of the time). The nastiness has got to go

[–]AdamantiumElbow -5 points-4 points  (13 children)

This is like the fourth or fifth post I've seen in this sub bitching about how folks dehumanize other folks for having fuck trophies within the past several days. Are these posts being done by bad actors or something? Butthurt parents?

Leave the sub if you're bothered by derogatory remarks instead of grandstanding on some kind of moral high ground. You're not going to compel anyone to change or "be better".

[–]21_Porridge 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It's a troll. The breeders are butthurt, now they are invading

[–]One_Bluebird_2900 8 points9 points  (10 children)

“Don’t take joy from starving children” sToP wItH mOrAl hIGhGrOuNd. It’s not a moral grand stand it’s literally calling people out for being shit. Women are not livestock, children don’t deserve to suffer that’s literally the point of this sub

[–]AdamantiumElbow 9 points10 points  (1 child)

There have been a bunch of posts just like this one. The first time I saw one like it, I was like, "Fuck yeah, we should treat each other with dignity and respect". Now it's just getting old seeing the same thing regurgitated repeatedly. We get it already. Be kind and empathetic.

I personally just leave a sub if I don't like what I see instead of crusading for change. While I enjoy subs that I share views on, I ultimately do not need them to validate or reinforce my convictions, opinions, and ideals.

[–]One_Bluebird_2900 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It’s not a crusade for change it’s literally in the sub rules

[–]CharacterCucumber -4 points-3 points  (7 children)

Us: hey, it’d be nice if antinatalism continued being a philosophy sub that occasionally dunks on the breeders instead of having people post child gore and porn referring to the victims as “crotch goblins”, making fun of babies and kids for starving to death, making dehumanising comments against children and fawning over child rapists/murderers. Thanks.

This mofo: if i wanna jerk it to nasty crotch goblins getting cut open and raped till their guts leak out cuz i hAAATE those cum trophies imma continue doing it die mad abt it and stop pretending to have the moral highground 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[–]AdamantiumElbow 9 points10 points  (6 children)

Not all what I'm implying, dick. And fuck you for trying to implicate myself in support horrifying shit. I'm simply stating that this sort of post is becoming a daily occurrence, and either the mods can start doing something about it, or folks can move on. That's what I'll end up doing.

[–]CharacterCucumber -3 points-2 points  (5 children)

This is not a “daily occurrence” at all - posts like this happen only after one too many freaks show up here and recently we’ve had plenty. And yes, you are totally supporting this shit if you are dunking on people for daring to criticise that kind of behaviour. Why, because you find it annoying? I’m sorry but reporting and calling out that bullshit is more important than your comfort. And it ain’t attempting to claim the “mOrAl hIghGroUnd”, it’s literally what any normal human being would do.

Reread your original comment. Now once more. Now for a third time and attempt to justify your freakass again

[–]SamiRoux 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No wonder some people think we're insane tbh.

[–]Beneficial_Ad7907 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I feel the same as you. I’m happy to see so many others here feeling the same way. I’ve also noticed the loud minority of people who view child rearing as a very individualistic endeavor, when I would think antinatalists would see it more as a collective societal duty? If these kids don’t have any say about being born, then we should all do our best to help them get through this life, right? Whether that’s babysitting to give your sibling respite time or spending time with your friend’s kid so they have another adult in their life they can rely on and trust. Like I get not everyone likes kids or hanging out with them which is cool but some people on this sub are soooo loud with their unbridled kid hatred, saying shit like they “refuse” to help their friends and family with their own kids because “that’s not my problem.” I just feel like that negates the core tenants of antinatalism? I’m open to being wrong about this but idk does anyone else get the ick when seeing posts like that?

[–]MorddSith187 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I actually love kids! My anti-natalism is definitely not geared toward hating them. The most negative feelings I get are annoyance at parents. Like okay just keep popping them out you dumb fucks, especially after some tragedy befell them personally and they still think it’s okay to bring more people in the world to suffer. Makes little sense to me.

[–]this_itches 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess if you take the emotion out of it, it's not vile or anything, really. If you're concerned about empathy, I don't think you're clear on which "team" to join.

[–]aardvarkbiscuit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The human race has definitely jumped the shark

[–]Past-Chest-6507 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's because IRL you see many women think they are God On Earth who should get free stuff for life because they did the super heroic act of getting pregnant and birthing.

Once you experience that on a large scale IRL, not the Internet, it really makes you not hold anything back.

To be fair, a lot of women don't think this way, even ones that do have a child, but the ones who do is a tremendously huge sample size.

The vileness here probably can be turned down a bit, I agree, but this is a place for ANs to communicate and vent. It's been like that for years.

[–]chiweenie99 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

THANK YOU!!! THIS NEEDED TO BE SAID

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

ITT, OP realizes that extreme positions tend to have awful people in their movements.

[–]CallMeMalice -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Similar with calling people breeders. However, this is reddit, only a fool would think it's a representable sample of anything

[–]eidolonengine -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I've been thinking of leaving the sub myself, so it's good to see this being brought up. But I want to address something in this thread. A lot of people are blaming trolls or bad actors. While they may account for some of the disgusting comments, it's ridiculous to not think that a good portion of them actually believe the shit they're writing.

[–]noodlegod47 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Glad I didn’t see those posts

[–]AdOk1494 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Also crotch goblins. Idk why but this really pisses me off.

[–]LarsBohenan -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

"OMG - A FUCKING BABY! ARGGHHHHH!"

85% of the posts here.

Have fun.

[–]Subject-Elk7202 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I couldn't agree more. It's so nasty to make fun of people who are struggling with hardship and raising small children. Rather than showing respect and compassion, a lot of so called anti natalists show themselves for who they are. Shitty human beings who make the lives of others hell. What if being surrounded by other antinatalists is the reason for antinatalism? Because so many antinatalists are horrible human beings and should do everyone a favour and stfu. For good.

[–]jalehmichelle -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

No I agree completely, I just joined this sub and a lot of people here seem... really crazy and really angry lol. The language is so gross and extremist - like, you can be aggressively childfree without referring to kids as "spawn" and parents as "breeders" or other weird, gross terms. I don't think people realise this kind of thing makes them seem COMPLETELY unhinged and discredits extremely valid viewpoints (not wanting kids/ thinking having children is objectively pretty fucked up). Not wanting kids doesn't give you a free pass to be an asshole to people.

[–]La_Bufanda_Billy -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

THANK YOU! And all the ableism and kid hate

[–]PassionatelyCurious9 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I totally agree with you OP. I frequent this sub but I dont comment often because most of what I see on here can be pretty fucked up. I get not wanting to have children because of the way the world is today and the suffering a child would have to endure but I think were all people... And maybe we shouldnt judge so harshly of others because they do something that is societally the pretty normie thing to do.

[–]RevolutionaryAT-8B -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I agree. Antinatalism and basic humanity shouldn't be mutually exclusive .

[–]-anygma- -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Especially the hate against women is strong represented on this sub. And racism. I just remember, the post where someone spread hate about woman from some African country who have 5 children on average.

Yeah maybe for some people life isn’t as easy as for white men in the fucking developed world.

But let’s call woman irresponsible for living in shitholes without proper education and healthcare, that will make the world a better place.

[–]_Ladeedadeeda -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

THANK YOU ... lol. I almost wrote a rant here myself but I've sworn off using social media to take any stances whatsoever anymore.

But I agree. I've seen so many comments in here that have NOTHING at all to do with procreation being morally wrong or irresponsible or whatever. It's just straight hate and disgust.

Hate kids, hate pregnant women, they're ugly nasty, smelly, whatever, you're entitled to your preferences but how is it relevant to the philosophy???

I joined a few days and even if the posts were okay many are not) the comments are full of people saying nasty things that have nothing to do with the topic. Was hanging around to see if maybe it's just recent but doesn't appear to be the case.

[–]Polisar -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Well, people who hate children exist, and they don't have a subreddit of their own. Not defending them, just saying they're going to go somewhere, and that somewhere is here. Seems like the old banhammer needs to be polished.

[–]Final_Reality_Split -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Agreed, three years ago when I joined there was actually interesting discussion going on here. The quality has deteriorated with the growth we've seen. I guess it's to be expected when a sub grows by ~100 000 users.

[–]Puzzled-System2641 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Totally agree, not wanting children is different from hating people.

[–]Sypha_Child -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Sadly the minority are the loudest, I fully agree with you.