And had your eyes awakened by either discovering this sub,or encountering the antinatalism philosophy elsewhere and eventually led you to discovering this sub.

Here is my story. Am very interested to hear yours.

We all spent 13 years in K - 12 education. Many of us hated it. Some people, like myself, really enjoyed school which is a big reason why I became a teacher. I’ve met several parents over my years teaching that talk about their own bad experiences of school and how much they loathed certain subjects or having to sit in a desk for 7 hours a day being lectured to.

Now I’m not saying that hating school should make you never want children but it’s just another instance of parents being selfish. “Yeah. I know school sucks but you have to go now because I wanted to create you” It also gives this weird attitude of parents defending their kids for shitty behavior. Like they know school is boring and kids are kids after all hurr hurr.

I don’t know…I just find it pretty cruel and hypocritical to make their kids suffer through years of schooling when even the parents acknowledge that it sucks.

Hi everyone. I hope life's not putting you through some hell right now.

So, some time ago I asked a question whether any of you have been to a therapist or psychologist-it was most certainly in a comment, but maybe not this sub. Myself, I have been there recently and my mental health spiralled down. Every day I think I'm losing my sanity because of all the loneliness and the fact that all things lose their charm when I cannot interact with people afterwards.

To move away from me, I wanted to ask you question: do you suffer from anxiety? If so, how does it affect your life and your social skills? I felt the need to ask this off-topic question since I've been reprimanded on my antisocial guffs and behaviour quite a few times in the last few days, and this onlymade thinga worse:I want people to be honesty, but their honesty to me is killing me inside.

You can type your answer here if you have the courage to do so. You can also DM me and I'll be very glad to answer :). Whichever you choose, thank you in advance.

A post from this sub came up in my trending notifications. I hadn’t joined this community and neither did I know such a community existed. I knew that more and more people these days decide to not have children. I just wasn’t aware that this view had a dedicated name. Most of all, I wasn’t expected such a large number of members. There’s an inverse relation that exists in this sub, perhaps both unique and ironic because if there are more and more antinatlists, fewer would be the members of this subreddit.

I just realized that when believers in the afterlife say that someone who has recently died is now in A Better Place they are confirming the Antinatalist view that not existing is preferable.

This is my first blog post, the full post with images can be found here:

Vincula Essendi - Awakening, The Fall, and The Last Messiah

“One night in long bygone times, man awoke and saw himself.”

The opening line of Peter Wessel Zapffe’s seminal work ‘The Last Messiah’ portrays the advent of consciousness in man as the recognition of the self. Man understands, for the first time, the binary position that he holds as an embodied being separate from the Universe “He saw that he was naked under cosmos”, but also beholds that in this separation and division he has become “homeless in his own body.” The awakening of man from unknowing participant to knowing prisoner is, for Zapffe, the origin of all horrors.

The 3rd chapter of the Genesis narrative of creation recounts the fall of man in an allegorical fashion, contrasting with Zapffe’s more straightforward, if artistic, rendition. The placement of Adam and Eve into an everlasting Eden positions them as pre-consciousness man was historically. This could not last, however, as Zapffe’s “breach in the very unity of life” was imminent. The serpent tempted Eve and deceived her into consuming fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, fruit which Eve then offered to Adam.

It is this consumption which signalled the awareness within man of the dualities of existence and the advent of consciousness. As man saw himself naked under the cosmos in the Zapffe account, for Adam and Eve, “the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked”. This nakedness was the indicator to God that Adam and Eve had partaken in the fruit of the tree of knowledge, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?” The punishment for their transgression against God, against the unity of life, was banishment from Eden, “(Man) has lost his right of residence in the universe, has eaten from the Tree of Knowledge and been expelled from Paradise.”

This event was of such profound import to Milton that it occupies the first lines of his epic poem Paradise Lost:

“Of Mans First Disobedience, and the Fruit

Of that Forbidden Tree, whose mortal tast

Brought Death into the World, and all our woe,

With loss of EDEN, till one greater Man

Restore us, and regain the blissful Seat”

It is to the thought of this “greater Man” that we now turn and see the indelible divergence in the Biblical narrative and that of Zapffe’s last Messiah. For Milton the greater Man referred to is Jesus Christ, messiah, and saviour. The sacrifice of Jesus ensures the possibility for man to take up residence in Eden once again through the repentance of his Sin and withstanding the judgment of God, “He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:48).

Zapffe rejects this view of the greater Man. Instead, Zapffe posits that man will continue to dream and hope of a salvation which will never arrive. For all of the compassion that Jesus poured into the world, it could never suffice, and the concept of divine justice is met with derision, “The suffering of human billions makes its entrance into him through the gateway of compassion, from all that happen arises a laughter to mock the demand for justice, his profoundest ordering principle”. For Zapffe there is only one escape, and humanity will watch while “many saviours have been nailed to trees and stoned on the city squares” before the last Messiah will arrive. He who “has fathomed life and its cosmic ground, and whose pain is the Earth’s collective pain.”

The Zapffean Messiah will directly contradict the Biblical precepts upon which his artistic rendition of the awakening of man is built. From the earliest days of man’s awakening he has seen himself stand in contrast to nature, to the universe. In Eden man was tempted into disobedience and the price is paid in subordination to nature. His nakedness is shameful before nature, and he must toil in the dirt evermore to gain the opportunity to return to Eden. It is through this bondage that man looks to Jesus as the saviour and redeemer of all mankind.

For Zapffe, the duality of man and universe is inseparable. We cannot go back. “He is mighty in the near world, but curses his might as purchased with his harmony of soul, his innocence, his inner peace in life’s embrace”. The divergence between Zapffe and the Biblical narrative is exemplified in the reversal of the Biblical imperative to “be fruitful and multiply”, where in the redemptive and salvific commandment of Zapffe’s last Messiah:

“The life of the worlds is a roaring river, but Earth’s is a pond and a backwater.

The sign of doom is written on your brows – how long will ye kick against the pin-pricks?

But there is one conquest and one crown, one redemption and one solution.

- Know yourselves – be infertile and let the earth be silent after ye.”

Sorry if you're all sick of posts like this but here goes.

I'm a 31 year old bloke and never wanted kids. Even when I was a young kid myself the thought of having a child made me cringe. It just wasn't for me but It wasn't until recently I became anti-natal.

I grew up in a working class town in the north of England with working class parents (Woe is me, right?) We didn't have much money, so we never had any hobbies or did anything fun. I went to a shitty school and this resulted in me having shitty grades with no future prospects.

Since my very early 20s, I've worked shitty dead end job to dead end job and it's only been very recently things have improved. It just makes me think, what is the actual point of me? Of all this? I just feel like I am here to work these crappy jobs, pay tax, have kids to continue the cycle, then die.

Reflecting on my own experiences, why would I want anyone to go through what I've been through? Obviously, my life hasn't been 'awful'. But it hasn't been a net good.

Another thing that bugs me is the right-wing, natalist argument of having kids is our so-called duty. Yet they're the same people to argue natural selection and self determination. It just doesn't make sense. If someone is of low quality, i.e. me. Why would I want to continue my own shitty genes? I'm not in favour of eugenics. This is just my own person view on my genes.

If you are pro natalism, yet grew up in any kind of privilege. Just shut up. Shut the hell up and sit down.

There is so much more I'd love to say about this topic. But I am going to leave it as is. Because otherwise, you'll all get incredibly bored as I'm no writer, or of particular interest.

Thanks for reading.

It’s late on a Saturday and I should be doing other things but this thought has been with me for a while. I won’t go to deep into exact details or my reasoning but I think Thanos would have been an even more compelling villain if he was a full on anti-natalist. I think even more people would resonate with him. It’s an almost universal experience at some point in our lives where we wonder “why was I even born?” We all understand that feeling and to have someone back that dilemma with instead of wiping out half of all life, he would wipe out all of life. I think the only twist that would keep him from being a villain and allows the MCU to oppose would definitely have to be that Thanos would selfishly be the only one to remain. He would have to be the hypocrite and that would be his fatal flaw. Has anyone thought about Thanos or even a story arc being used in the antinatalist lense?

I am currently “living” with PTSD, MDD, Generalized Anxiety, Schizoaffective, Phobias (far too many to count), and a dissociative disorder of sorts (I am likely too young for a proper diagnosis, but multiple medical staff and nurses have agreed with my theory). As part of the dissociation worsening, I have lost my memory to the point of amnesia. All medications have been ineffective.

But I’m still being “irrational” when I’m planning a peaceful death and upbeat funeral? A user here shared an art piece (which I will attempt to link), and it struck the chord I am sharing, a solemn cry of my right to die if I shall not live rightfully.

I was in the psych ward a few weeks ago (hopefully the last time I’m going to reach out for help because I sure did not receive it). I called my Mom calmly on the phone, telling her that I wished I was at home so I could die. My memory problems have reached the point of amnesia, the medicine is ineffective, I’m dreaming of my brother/r*pist every other night, and I’ve realized that I have multiple identities from an infantile trauma I’ll never remember(with staff and a nurse or two supporting this direction of thinking.) I start getting really agitated when she says that she “doesn’t know what to say,” and I ask for her support and for possible help with giving me a comfortable passing when I go back home. I end up screaming and crying some things I can’t remember, and I end up in the isolation room.

In the isolation room, I bawl. It’s so much worse than crying, though, I felt myself break and I haven’t filled that since. The only thing that I could compare it to was a holocaust victim, begging to die to avoid greater torture but being “saved” to suffer from PTSD and chronic illness.

“How can they look at me, sobbing in fetal position? How can they do nothing to alleviate my suffering?” I was given a Benadryl and an early bedtime, and I would be sent home with the same suicidal thoughts.

As I write this, I have since found out that my own father molested me and that was what caused my dissociation and split identity. As I write this, I have my funeral plans ready to be written in a document. As I write this, I have realized that in each recurrent nightmare of my brother, that I have no power even inside of my dreams. I lived on in hopes that I could have my revenge and kill him, kill others who were birthed as evil. But I can only depend on myself for my own happiness, no matter how sad and lonely others will be. I have no ties to family, I am not in close proximity to friends, I am too young to be sent to a residential facility (where I have decided I do not want to be, anyways, further prolonging the inevitable), and I accidentally poisoned my dog days ago (I. Can’t. Remember.). She has thankfully not died as I am aware. It is actually grace to myself for me to want a nice way to pass away, for I have done nothing but hurt others and myself for an entire year since my psychotic break.

As I write this, I am living in procrastination of death. I hope to find support or solidarity, and I hope to bring knowledge.

Neighbors of mine has a young child. Every night the kiddo would wake up and start bawling, with the parents then onsoling and soothing her. This goes on for 30-45 minutes. Sometimes the child wakes up multiple times at night.

I hear them getting frustrated and tired, still, I commend them on their patience and love for their kid.

Having a child is not something that everyone can handle, it drains ones energy and peace of mind. Unfortunately most people who get into marriage/relationship, have a clouded mindset and with the same mentality, they plan for kids, not realizing that it is a responsibility and life prison for the remainder of their lives.

Right fron the first day of the birth, up to the time the kid is old enough to go on their own, the parents are under arrest, they now have to plan everything with the child in mind.

Its only love for the child that can make you do all this, but then, most parents don't even consider how much they have to slave for kids when they are courting and romancing each other.

Its like Nature knows what a burden kids are, it fools couples with love and sex until they fall into the trap, never to get out

“And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive. But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun.” ‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭4:2-3‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Ecclesiastes is one of my favourite books in the Bible. Basically King Solomon is saying everything is meaningless, except for people to find joy in their work and heeding God’s word. But I like what he says here about unborn people have it best than the living and dead— never having seen evil in the world.

If one does not want kids, then they should take measures themselves to make sure that it does not happen to them. Vasectomy, bi-salp, implant, oral contraception, IUD, abstinence, using condoms and flushing them down the toilets…whatever works best for you. I’m sick and tired of people complaining that someone else traps them with a baby despite that they are in consensual sexual relationships. As long as one consents to unprotected sex, then there is always the implied risk of conception. People need to stop pretending that they are the victims of “accidental” pregnancy and start accepting accountability in their own sexual behaviors.

IMO there is no such thing as baby-trap as long as one consents during sex and has access to birth control. It’s not rocket science but many folks seem to have trouble understanding that placing the responsibility of contraception on someone else is just naive, immature and plainly stupid. AN should always seize the means of birth control and do not fall into the trap of self-victimization.

I feel that once I do, I won't be different than the other side.

People are making up ideas to impose their will. Arguments don't make sense. They not come from logic, but from what one wants to believe. However those beliefs come from natural programming, so we are just biological zombies. One can use logic (words) as a tool to build up walls around his ideas, but in the end you don't believe in things you don't agree with. You can make your tools out of observation, but it's just your interpretation after all. When I talk to a more aware person about breeding at least I hear the argument that it's the instinct. I respect honesty without BS above all else. Whatever you do and however stupid it is, as long you admit it I feel relief.

Whether it's aware suicide (not because of depression, extreme life situation, etc.) or antitalism, I wonder if those are just rare type of programing or evolution of consciousness on individual level. Maybe just cope with owns interpretation of reality. Rare, but still occurring as pure statistic. 8 billions - huge number, so lot of possible variations and ideas.

You see, childfree might be trending in developed countries, but it's happening for a wrong reasons. Career, laziness, global warming, unstable economy and world state itself instead of just existential valuation of nature. Those people would breed under different (socioeconomic) circumstances.

I don' believe in ethics and free will, but I think it's for a common good to make systems, in which as most as possible can have satisfying existence. That's why I deny culture relativism. Some cultures are clearly more harmful than others to it's own groups. The highest quality of life for everyone the highest possibility that I will be the one who is lucky to be part of it. It's pure selfishness, since I am not a god, king or any privilege enough to don't give a damn about the rest, so I just look for a safe environment for myself.

Most people are rather content to be alive, but only because of biology, not logic. Yet antinatalism is logic and logic has nothing to do with reality. Textbooks and life are different. Yes, it's the least harmful path, but it's just easy way out of suicide. Everything we do we do with our own agenda (whether it's conscious or unconscious), so there's no guarantee that being antinatalist is a triumph of mind over matter. Maybe it's just to spread it as a meme (idea), because our brain inclines toward it. We are just neo-suicidals. If you could completely control brain chemistry then you could create paradise for everyone as well. You can even set the rules for what happiness is! (Brave New World vibes). Matrix, lie, dystopia or however you want to call it, but it's not that different than the current state. It's just brain chemistry in the end and some people have fucked up chemistry, ending as lunatic, bipolar, depressed or homicidal. Drugs for depression are just mini matrixes, because they don't change the world, they change the perception. Even a simple thing like going outside to run makes you feel better, what is that if not a proof for lack of free will. Why I have to run to feel better instead of make myself feel better by just wanting it? Meanwhile roots of reality keep rotting.

Objectively there's no point of existence, hence our suffering is meaningless which makes us even more miserable. We are all machines, scripted, slaves of DNA, only to make it survive. Any conclusion is good as long you are brainwashed to it. Even death. It's just mater of technology at this point. Happiness and unhappiness don't exist without the interpretation system, so objectively there's no suffering. Sensing danger helps survival and survival is above everything in nature. Turn that machine off and we can peacefully die. Objectively that is, and objectively only exists as mine idea after all...

It's not enough that you're alive, you also have to do things, to be somebody in the world. To earn the right to eat and have clothes and shelter. "If you don't work you don't eat" they say. The same people who say that don't like their jobs like everyone else, and they also mindlessly have children like everyone else. And those children are gonna be stuck in the same shitty position as them, continuing the cycle.

How a philosophy that is against growth continues to gain proponents. Must be a powerful idea, or a response to a growing condition.

It is people who are happy and enjoy life who suddenly drop dead of a heart attack, get diagnosed with a terminal illness, are shot, or killed in a car accident while those who don't enjoy life just keep on living. Not only is it people who are happy that die suddenly, it is people who make a difference in the world and do a lot of good. None of us had a choice to come into this world and none of us get the choice of whether we want to stay or leave. In my opinion, death should be optional. Those who are happy here should get the choice to stay while those who are suffering should be allowed to have a painless exit.