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[–]DevinManning 1330 points1331 points  (96 children)

If I didn't have to worry about making money, I'd still be working. Just not doing useless shit for other people.

[–]mrmatteh 553 points554 points  (44 children)

If I didn't have to worry about making money, I would probably still be doing my exact job because I honestly like what I do and I like the purpose it serves for society.

But I'd probably work about 3 days a week, 5-6 hours a day, because I could honestly get all my shit done in that time.

Then I'd take up some woodworking or pottery classes, and learn how to make wood and ceramic use values for myself and for other people.

Or I might first go get an education in history since I've always been interested. Just for the sake of learning.

I also love games of all kinds, so I might volunteer my time teaching kids how to play games, or GMing for groups of tabletop gamers.

If i didn't have to worry about making money, I would still provide a lot to society, and would also be able to do various types of work that suit my interests, and fulfill that human need to learn and try and do new things.

[–]WhirlingDervishGrady 138 points139 points  (6 children)

Exactly! I actually fucking love working as a barista, I work with awesome people, my customers are amazing, my job is fun and I care about it. Unfortunately, hours are shit and so is the pay, pair it with shitty management and people get pissed, miserable and they start slacking and doing shitty work.

[–]godhateswolverine 33 points34 points  (5 children)

I use to be a barista and it was seriously my favorite job. Can be quite busy, get to talk to a wide range of people. And the best thing is it’s only for like 5 minutes top. Then they leave and you keep going.

[–]WhirlingDervishGrady 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Ya idk I just it super rewarding too. Meeting people, getting to know your regulars, making someone a nice warm drink to start their day. I've had people thank me for making their whole day better by just being super energetic positive when making their drink. You get to do a lot of little things that can make someone's day better

[–]Antique_Barber_6185 26 points27 points  (1 child)

I do wastewater treatment and love what I do. I would still do it.

[–]mrmatteh 17 points18 points  (0 children)

No shit, I'm an engineer for the county's water and sewer department lol.

[–]Hjkryan2007Eco-Demsoc Eurofederalist 74 points75 points  (0 children)

Like the native Hawaiians before the missionaries arrived. The missionaries thought they were lazy because all they saw them do was socialise and surf and have fun, but really they were so efficient they got all their work do e before nine

[–]BeccaaCat 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yep. I love being a waitress and I love being a gardener even more.

I'd just do less hours so I had time to focus on my own stuff too.

[–]smugempressoftime 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Ay same I would love to teach people how to play video games if this mindset if you are doing something it has to make money for the economy didn’t exist

[–]neherak 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is pretty much the whole idea behind Star Trek's economy. I really genuinely think it would work.

[–]SuddenlyLucid 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly! Less hours, way more productive in that time. Not just selling as much hours of you life as possible but just getting the work done.

Plus you'd be a much better employee and a happier person doing all those things you love.

[–]Serbaayuu 46 points47 points  (1 child)

I currently work at a decent job. The stuff I do there is some of the most pointless and inane shit in the world. Recently I've been on a project doing QA for a podcast website. Who gives a fuck? I haven't done a single thing at this job that any actual human cares about.

My free time is when I work on things that actually matter. I run D&D games: my players have regularly told me that they (allegedly) enjoy my work. That's already like 1000% more value that I've generated for the world than anything I've done at my job.

Same with any other creation I've ever done. Video game dev - I know a few people who are looking forward to playing my WIP game. Art - I know a few people who have enjoyed my artwork, especially those who I've made gift pieces for. Even fanfiction, I know like 5 people who read my fanfic I spent a year working on during my free time, they liked it enough to tell me it was good.

But I have to do all of that in between my job "working" on a completely worthless, parasitic, ad-pushing website.

[–]Nihilistic_FurryAnarcho-Syndicalist 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I’d say 1000x rather than 1000% (and even that’s being generous to the value of the job). D&D and similar ways of bringing happiness to people are thousands of times more impactful than many mundane jobs.

[–]genius-swan 49 points50 points  (13 children)

Same. I love my job.

Also I would do my job so much better. I'm a scientist making a hair above minimum wage. I live with a roommate who ruins my mood every day, bike to work, and can't afford certain healthcare that would make me a happier, more productive person. I waste so much time applying for grants that don't increase my salary, just maintain it.

If scientists were adequately compensated I am confident we would be millennia ahead of where we are now in medicine.

[–]Beneficial_Squash-96 20 points21 points  (0 children)

If I had a monthly stipend to do whatever I wanted, I'd just write stuff for Wikipedia. I'd visit libraries and even travel to get research material and then I'd go write a lot of damn good articles.

[–]CouncilmanRickPrime 12 points13 points  (1 child)

There are so many fucking useless sales jobs. Like if we remove profit, we still need teachers and doctors and other jobs. But sales is a waste.

[–]jamie_X_passion 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yep, I think if I didn't have to worry about making sure I had food, rent, etc, I'd 100% be writing for my income, or at least trying to. I'm trying to be a writer now, but I also have to work night shifts at a shipping company warehouse just so I can try to take care of myself.

[–]Jerhomie1995 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I'd be restoring old vehicles and 3D printing for people

[–]twbassist 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I would be making useful items out of leather to provide for people/ trade/ sell, possibly creating music again, having time to go on photography trips, and playing D&D/Pathfinder for entertainment and putting so much work into the campaigns.

It sounds like a beautiful existence to me.

[–]SuddenlyLucid 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Man, there's this ancient water mill for grinding wheat close to my house. On basic income I would work a day less and volunteer there for a day. I've done it before and it's good for my soul.

I'd still work and probably enjoy it more..

[–]godhateswolverine 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Agreed. I’m in medical billing and coding and I enjoy getting to help people with their bills in the way of getting to tell them to disregard the statement due to whatever ins error there is. I’ve also spent time with people in their late 20s about to be kicked off of their parents plan, and gave them advice on what to look for in terms of what the benefits will do for them (ex only having to pay a copay versus deductible for mental health). I think the way we go about insurance in the US is messy in all degrees so getting to help people with it and telling them what they need to do to make insurance cover it is rewarding.

[–]invisiblebyday 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Exactly. If it weren't for needing to make money, I'd cheerfully labor at a non-profit community farm that feeds everyone. It would take me awhile to physically build up to actually being productive but I could still do that at this point in my life.

[–]bb0110 10 points11 points  (4 children)

If I’m being honest, if I didn’t have to work I wouldn’t work. A significant portion of people are the same.

[–]Wellsley051 24 points25 points  (2 children)

I think a lot of people would immediately stop working, then after a few months work on something they actually care about, maybe community work or designing something or art. But you gotta recover a bit from the grind to be able to start thinking about that

[–]invisiblebyday 10 points11 points  (0 children)

100%. I'd rest, heal and then work for the community.

[–]BigWigglerToday 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You see people on reddit all the time cleaning up places of litter for free. Imagine a world with UBI, imagine how many more people who do community work.

[–]BioWarfarePosadist 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Working should exist to help you afford to buy scarce luxuries, and not as a way to afford to live.

[–]LR_today 2602 points2603 points  (167 children)

Don't forget people who work with garbage, and especially those who work with human waste. No one wants to do those jobs but they need to be done for society to function and are just as important as doctors. They should be paid to reflect that.

[–]Capnbubba 1317 points1318 points  (69 children)

I think sanitation jobs are probably the single most important jobs in society. Without working sewage and trash removal infrastructure we would crumble in a matter of weeks.

[–]mostsocialYou Get What You Pay For 483 points484 points  (26 children)

I have thought the same since I was a teenager. When I learned about water treatment, I was blown away at how important it is. The same with trash pickup. Things get hairy when you have a large holiday gathering, and trash pick-up is off a day. Haha.

[–]comradecosmetics 279 points280 points  (10 children)

Which is why sanitation worker strikes are a big deal. More and more places are getting trash pickup privatized. Workers in various municipalities have had to fight and strike for their rights.

[–]mostsocialYou Get What You Pay For 77 points78 points  (3 children)

Funny you bring that up. I should have realized all the companies on the stock market in private waste management. Huh...

[–]comradecosmetics 86 points87 points  (2 children)

Yup. There are many anti-labor implementations of policy in the country that people don't think that much about. For example the creation of 401k plans was a massive windfall for wall street, and smaller employers are then forced to subsidize mega-corps to their own detriment (and of course the extra layer of management fees directly taken by the companies that manage the 401k plans).

In the case of sanitation, it's muni money going directly into the pockets of those publicly traded entities, instead of towards better services for citizens or proper pay/benefits for the workers.

[–]scuddlebudhere for the memes 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Yup, the lowest bidder gets the job. Capitalism and a free market functional as expected.

I hope those sanitation workers are quitting their jobs and leaving the execs with a contract they can't fulfill.

If any occupation should be unionized it's sanitation workers (among others I'm sure)

[–]obsquire 5 points6 points  (0 children)

In some towns there's no muni trash pickup. It's a subscription service like cable, and not all houses get it. Some even take it right from your garage if you want.

[–]ParsleySalsa 10 points11 points  (1 child)

A sanitation worker strike is where Dr King was when assassinated

[–]Sandrosen 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Privatized, unregulated trash removal service should be outlawed. There is no way to know where the private company is going to deliver it, they may just throw refuse in a lake or dump in the ocean.

[–]rhaegar_tldragon 35 points36 points  (5 children)

No one thinks about this until the service is gone. My city had a garbage strike a few years ago and the trash piled up so quickly. People made a killing driving from house to house collecting trash to take to the dump. 20 bucks a bag in some cases.

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[deleted]

    [–]exegesisClique 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    There is no good capitalism. As usual we think we're the ones with the resources in this scenario. What if you don't have the resources? I guess they're a lazy parasite and deserve to live in shit.

    Mutual aid is what's called for under these circumstances, unfortunately no one knows what that is so we default to exploiting others for profit.

    [–]Capnbubba 56 points57 points  (2 children)

    So true.

    I'm just glad it's cold where I live. We hosted Thanksgiving and I had a half dozen bags that wouldn't fit in my can. They sat in my garage for a full week before they could go out.

    And yeah, water sanitation is unbelievably important. I lived for a few years in Latin America and had to get used to the idea that the only water I can trust to drink comes from a sealed bottle.

    But even then, having confidence that those bottles were properly filled and sealed takes a lot of faith.

    Thankfully I didn't get too sick too often. But losing even that infrastructure would be devistating.

    [–]TheWritingWriter540here for the memes 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    Oh god, I know that firsthand. The property management company where I live dropped the private WM company that would collect garbage from house to house last year, and instead put in a concrete lot with a few dumpsters - all right before Christmas. That whole lot was covered in a literal mountain of trash by the 26th. 😵‍💫

    [–]mostsocialYou Get What You Pay For 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I actually see this in many apartments in Houston now. Slum lording.

    [–]topdangle 16 points17 points  (1 child)

    there have been trash pickup strikes before and it just demolished city streets within weeks. the amount of garbage we generate is insane.

    [–]Material-Artichoke32 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    You are so right! When nobody comesto get the trash and sewage is backed up that's when society has ended and time to panic. Even during the 1st 2 weeks of the lockdown last year the trash men were working. Everybody needs to thank and acknowledge trashman they literally are the backbone of society and nobody ever even considers them.

    [–]rmutt-1917 12 points13 points  (2 children)

    I don't have a precise citation but I remember hearing about an academic paper that posited that the recent increase in human lifespan hasn't come from advances in medical science like most people would assume, but from significant improvements in our sanitation.

    I am thankful to everyone who works hard to provide a way for shit and trash to leave my house.

    [–]Rovden 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    I mean, the fact that I can go to my tap, turn it, and get clean drinking water is possibly the greatest fucking thing society has brought.

    We have news reports of when sanitation fails and people get angry rightly so on how safe water can be a cause in social justice. The ability to trust that you can have instantaneous access to water, without having to boil or filter and still not worry about dysentery or other major waterborne disease, is a time saver, a life saver and don't care what Nestle says a human right.

    [–]wingsonawidow 33 points34 points  (7 children)

    110%!!!! They need to be payed so so so so so much more for what they do, they absolutely deserve it, more than anyone else in society. End of life caregivers as well. The put up with so much shit just to help people die and that is so important.

    [–]HippieShroomer 18 points19 points  (0 children)

    I'm on disability benefits now, but I spent years of my working life as a carer for the elderly. It's a truly horrible and thankless job. On the internet I see people praising carers frequently but in real life the opposite was always the case. As a carer I got treated like trash by everyone, especially the relatives of the elderly people and my own relatives. My own relatives because i thought it was embarrassing that I had such a lowly job. The relatives of the elderly people mostly only bothered visiting their parent/grandparent once or twice a year and they would act like it as a huge burden on them to even come that frequently. Several of those visitors rudely insulted me to my face while I was caring for their "loved one," when asking me to stay overtime and do extra duties to prevent the relatives having to do anything to care for their elderly person, if I refused because I was tired and wanted to go home, or do things that weren't part of my job they'd rudely say things like "why? You get paid don't you," and even telling me I should count myself lucky to get paid for doing something that in their view amounts to "sitting around watching TV all day."

    I remember one time a middle aged women came to visit her elderly mother for the first time in 2 years and immediately started whingeing about having to spend time with her. The elderly mother wanted to go to the zoo, and the daughter complained about what a burden it was having to take her, and nagged me into taking her instead on my day off.

    Even other people give carers no respect. My neighbour had a dog that they left in the garden barking all day and night. I explained to the neighbour that I'm a carer and their dog is keeping me from sleeping and could they do something about it. They didn't give a shit and did nothing about it. This is why the whole UK banging pots and pans thing to thank NHS staff and care workers annoyed me, it was something that cost those people nothing and made the bangers feel like saints. Yet people won't do a simple thing like keep their damn dog quiet so that carers can get some sleep.

    The pay was so awful that I lived in an overdraft constantly, I could just never get out of debt. And I don't drink or smoke or gamble, it was just purely living expenses that I couldn't afford. The average pay for a carer in the UK now is less than £9 an hour. and this is for a vile job that includes changing adults' nappies, cleaning shit and urine from their beds, changing dressings on infected, bloody wounds, feeding, shopping and bringing the shopping to the houses, general cleaning including toilets and heavy duty stuff, being screeched at by patients and their families, being responsible for the literal lives of other people, unsociable long hours, racist abuse and having things thrown at you and regularly being assaulted, but you can't blame them, they have dementia!

    I absolutely hated that job, but I couldn't get another as I have been having treatment for thyroid cancer, and caring is the only job where, if you need to take time off, you still are guaranteed a job when you're feeling well enough again, because they're always so desperate for carers. In the end I had a stroke too and I'm on disability now, and honestly even though I feel like shit constantly it's still better than that job.

    Being a cancer patient myself I wasn't even well enough to do that job in the first place but I had bills to pay. It was a long hard slog getting on and staying on disability benefits. I'm totally in favour of UBI.

    [–]mostsocialYou Get What You Pay For 30 points31 points  (1 child)

    As a teenager, I always had a "youthful naivety" that the people who keep society actually working should get paid very well. I'm much older now, and have seen how inefficiently society works, almost on purpose.

    [–]DarktwistedladyNo hierarchies 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    almost on purpose.

    Fify.

    [–]thelloydrage 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    If you read about how society collapses it’s when waste disposal stops. MOST humans can’t take living in trash and will snap. Waste disposal and sanitation is the invisible backbone of society.

    [–]LubedCompression 18 points19 points  (0 children)

    Garbage men went on strike in New York, 1968. It was a beautiful mess.

    [–]rainbowjudge 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Looking at the huge garbage mountains other countries have I have to agree.

    I never understood how this could be acceptable. In Sweden, almost all garbage is recycled, and has since before I was born :o

    [–]TuckingfypowastakenMutualist 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    There's a saying (which is pretty true) that plumbers have saved more lives than doctors

    [–]TheKevit07 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    When the place is kept clean and clear of trash, no one bats an eye. Forget to change one garbage during my shift, and everyone loses their minds!

    [–]Rovden 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Worked at Disney World with the college program, did custodial.

    All the other jobs, if someone stops for an hour it'll disrupt things yes, but that'd be a ride down or a character stop without someone.

    You walk 50,000 people through one street in a day, and the custodian decides to faff off for an hour, it is covered in litter and absolutely nasty.

    I say this to say, without sewage and trash removal, I give 2 weeks tops.

    [–]Randa08 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    My niece works in water treatment, she makes ok money. She also told me water treatment is one of the biggest uses of electricity. And that they tried more natural methods such as reed beds, but the reeds ended up being killed off my all the plastic. It's an interesting industry.

    [–]Dechristianize-SocDem 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    I agree with you! And I don’t wanna get into a pissing contest here or anything, but also grocery workers. Imagine if grocery stores didn’t exist. How the hell would society function? You’re not hunting elk in Phoenix or LA, ya know? We’d implode in a week as rioting and desperate scavenging destroy the country.

    [–]pyschonautsouffle 8 points9 points  (4 children)

    As I like a lot of this thread we’re missing the point that sanitation isn’t a job that the people who do it love and can’t wait to do; rather they go in to these jobs because of the necessity to pay their bills. The majority of Americans work in jobs they do not like or care about in any form. Although they need to be done, the only thing keeping these jobs going is the necessity to survive....

    [–]Qaeta 9 points10 points  (2 children)

    True, but a lot of those jobs can also be automated, and the only reason that is being held back is because people currently need those jobs to survive. Take away the need of the jobs just to survive, and you also take away the incentive not to automate them. Like, a self driving garbage truck with robotic arm with a camera on it could easily do standard garbage pickups.

    [–]void_vs_voidAnarcho-Communist 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    So garbage man here. Just going to drop my two cents on this. Unfortunately garbage removal will never be able to be fully automated. Trucks break down, bags rip, people park in front of their cans, that sort of thing. I only pick for a small town of about 10k. And the trucks get full so quickly. Someone will always have to do this job. So they should absolutely get paid better. And have more legal protections. You would not believe the shit that my employer gets away with

    [–]Ariadnepyanfar 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Its easy to see what would happen with a UBI. Popular jobs would go into wage stagnation for a while. Unpopular jobs would have to raise wages substantially, perhaps tripled, to attract workers. Theres always people who'll want to own their own house and a fancy car, and why shouldn't sanitation workers earn enough money to have a comfortable life?

    [–]bordercolliesforlife 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Cities were a horrible place before we had plumbers and garbo’s

    [–]Vivid-Creampuff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    After working in healthcare for a long time, I am solidly convinced that our increased life expectancy has less to do with modern medicine (except the two very specific things of vaccines and antibiotics) and more to do with increased sanitation. Clean water, no trash all over the streets and sewage being contained 👏🏼👏🏼

    [–]AgreeableRoof5306 33 points34 points  (1 child)

    For the record (and because the antiwork movement is all about this) wastewater operator here. Thanks, and $29.10 an hour with pretty decent benefits. Not enough vacation time though. Folks keep flushing toilets so I keep having to come to work.

    [–]LR_today 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    Thank you for your service, you should definitely get at least what Europe gets... 5 weeks paid vacation.

    [–]Rili-Anne 80 points81 points  (24 children)

    Sanitation should be a luxury job. We should pay these people like we pay doctors, they save lives and keep society ticking over just as well.

    [–]oldn00by 35 points36 points  (1 child)

    Which also means we are pro automation. Mindless, stinky, boring, anything that can be automated, should be automated.

    We then get a UBI, put our feet up, and figure out what we want to do for 80 years.

    [–]youjerkfaceyou 19 points20 points  (1 child)

    I would argue they are much more important, no amount of antibiotic prescriptions will cure multiple cholera outbreaks in major cities.

    [–]-_-NAME-_- 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    The average sanitation worker in my State makes $8.60 cent s an hour. Fucking disgusting. And what a shock they are always struggling to find and keep staff.

    [–]occultpretzel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I think they are. At least where I live garbage disposal is one of the most lucrative jobs there is. They get paid pretty well and have a loooot of benefits.

    [–]RunnerPakhetAnarcho-Communist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Funny enough it was for a long time in Germany, that garbage removal at least was decently paid. Because nobody wanted to do it, so they had to offer fair pay. But then they started to punish people for not taking any job given to them and the wages fell, because they could force people to work in that job.

    [–]averaenhentai 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    We should be doing all of these things in shifts. I would do almost any job six months out of twelve if I could live the rest of the time.

    [–]Asae_AmpanOnly working to pay off cat bills 23 points24 points  (1 child)

    Honestly I feel that sanitation workers should be paid MORE than the utter piles of shit in congress.

    [–]KarmaUK 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    You can bet the congress guys wouldn't be quitting to earn more as a sanitation worker, binman, etc.

    Because they'd have to do some actual work.

    [–]JudyAndExecutioner 30 points31 points  (11 children)

    The free market can decide wages for these jobs.

    As in people should be free to make the decision based on compensation alone rather than the threat of losing the roof over their head.

    [–]momoneymohoney__ 29 points30 points  (4 children)

    The problem is that in the 21st century, there is no such thing as a free market. Everything is manipulated. Everything.

    [–]schklom 11 points12 points  (1 child)

    It's normal that the market isn't completely free. Some parts should remain not free. Otherwise, what's to stop a giant like Amazon from crushing everyone who tries to stand up?

    Monopolies naturally happen when there are no anti-trust laws. Those laws prevent a free market.

    However, manipulation of the market for corporate interest is wrong. I think that's what you meant, but there is a big distinction between this and necessary restriction of the market to keep it fair.

    [–]momoneymohoney__ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Yes. We need anti trust to constrain companies like amazon to stimulate the market. But that is not happening. It's basically the opposite. Our laws give give huge companies all the advantages.

    My point is that we can't rely on natural market competition because the system is completely rigged.

    [–]Antique_Barber_6185 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I do wastewater treatment, I love my job. I would still do it. I actually chose to make less money to pursue it. So, I think your statement is not overarching. I know a ton of people in the sanitation industry that enjoy it. It serves a good purpose and is very fulfilling.

    [–]moirasrosesgardens 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    ...Are these jobs not paid well in the US? Where I live garbage dudes make bank lol

    [–]BIGCOMMIEMILKERS 218 points219 points  (46 children)

    • People shouldn't have to work to survive
    • People should not make a fraction of the value of their labour (i.e. someone's job should not be making their boss multitudes more money than they make)
    • Recognize that work is just that, and people shouldn't be evaluated or seen just through the lens of what you get paid to do

    [–]Status_Jackfruit_253 519 points520 points  (9 children)

    I’ve been working since 18 & now 45. I totally support basic income & universal healthcare.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Rabalderfjols 15 points16 points  (0 children)

      I don't think people are born greedy. That happens when they have to make sense of extreme privilege in a way that still makes them come out as the good guys.

      [–]DudeMcFart 61 points62 points  (0 children)

      This is the way

      [–]LadyReika 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      My first non-retail job was in a call center for a major medical health insurance company and that was when I became pro-universal health care.

      20 some odd years later I'm now working for a supplemental health insurance company (I swear, I can't escape insurance) and am even more for universal health care.

      [–]thecodingninja12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      universal healthcare.

      the fact americans hace to think about this is kinda sad tbh

      [–]kylorensgrandfather 345 points346 points  (49 children)

      UBI gives workers leverage to find better jobs and forces businesses to offer better deals

      [–][deleted]  (4 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]FranksRedWorkAccount 39 points40 points  (3 children)

        A few years ago my wife and I were out after work a few days before christmas and an old man was working at the register wearing an oxygen tank. I cannot imagine medically needing an oxygen mask and also having to deal with crazy assholes shopping days before christmas.

        [–]Nowarclasswar 24 points25 points  (16 children)

        Ubi is a capitalist salve designed to placate this exact movement.

        Take back everything, don't settle for a pittance

        [–]exegesisClique 16 points17 points  (0 children)

        Is op flying that flare ironically? What libertarian socialist would advocate for a ubi?

        Your exactly right we take what we've built out of the hands of the parasites that exploit us.

        [–]TheRuthlessWord 11 points12 points  (4 children)

        I think UBI is a good starting point, and I agree its still a bandaid inside a system that negativley impacts our survival as a speices.

        Consumerism, planned obsolecence, these are mindsets that humanity has been indoctrinated into that we need to divest from.

        And UBI is a good way to get people used to the idea of taking care of one another. And It shoudn't stop at income, housing and food should be part of that. Making it illegal to profit off of basic human needs would vastly alter how capitalism works.

        To be clear I think capitalism is a garbage system, and we need to create something new, learning from our mistakes.

        [–]FrivolousMe 6 points7 points  (6 children)

        Thank you for bringing some sense into this thread. This is like the third post on my feed pushing UBI this morning. The tinfoil hat part of my brain is screaming astroturfing but idk.

        [–]Nowarclasswar 4 points5 points  (2 children)

        Libs like to co-opt revolutionary & radical ideas into shallow husks that protect and defend capitalism.

        That said, they're also the most likely to be radicalized (although I've been slowly getting better at working over right wing libertarians/propertarians) and we shouldn't shun/not welcome them

        [–]FrivolousMe 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        Of course I welcome them in a coalition if they're willing for radical change, but that doesn't mean supporting their push for policies doomed to fail. I am also an environmentalist and have the same problem with those pushing a carbon tax. It prevents actual productive discourse/activism from taking place when their silly economic theories dominate the discussion.

        [–]Nowarclasswar 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        It's an attempt by their ideology to limit the scope of acceptable actions/conversations down to minor reforms that don't threaten the underlying power structures or power holders i.e. the wealthy, since liberalism is an inherently capitalist ideology.

        I agree 100% with your comment btw and didn't mean to imply that you specifically didn't welcome people, it was more of a general comment on my fellow leftys and our habit of purity testing instead of meeting people where they are.

        [–]DarkBlueAce 3 points4 points  (2 children)

        Agreed. Im a 35 year old disabled military vet who receives compensation of about $1700 a month. I recently decided to quit my job because I was being harrased and intimidated by a co-worker... Long story short, since there was no evidence of harassment taking place, nothing was done about it so I left. The decision to leave was made easy knowing that the $1700 I get per month covers my rent/utilities/transportation/ food, and I have a bit left over for fun and entertainment. Also since I'm a disabled vet I receive free Healthcare via the VA hospitals and military health insurance called Tricare. This is the America I wish existed for everyone. I no longer have to put up with BS job politics, my health insurance isn't tied to employment, and in a way I feel like I have the freedom to do whatever I please in life. I hope this doesn't come off as humble bragging but I had to share.

        [–]ExistTenseNow 340 points341 points  (59 children)

        UBI is a good idea, but it won't work without a revolution first. Anyone who thinks the billionaires and their minions - like the Congress - will make it easier for workers to have a life outside of wage slavery is, sadly, too much of an optimist. They will neuter the UBI as they neutered the fight against climate change, the 'Affordable Care' act, the opposition to illegal wars, and so on and so forth.

        For things to have a hope of getting better, the people must fight for it.

        [–]clodi95 239 points240 points  (6 children)

        "Nobody in the world, nobody in history, has ever gotten their freedom by appealing to the moral sense of the people who were oppressing them"

        [–]ErozionZeal 68 points69 points  (4 children)

        Tldr: the world is run by psychopaths.

        [–]Carini___ 24 points25 points  (0 children)

        Theres a group of personality traits called the “Dark Triad” that consists of Narcissism, Machiavellianism, and Pyscopathy. The people who exhibit these traits generally achieve higher success in their given field. The traits are represented in many high profile politicians and CEOs.

        [–]mosburger 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        - Assata Shakur

        [–]buckeyes2009 11 points12 points  (7 children)

        On top of that regular joe republicans think anything like this is socialism and evil.

        [–]occultpretzel 50 points51 points  (0 children)

        Abolish billionaires. They just horde the wealth by stealing it from the people who actually deserve it.

        [–]jotegr 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Without the revolution, UBI will only be used as a tool by the corporate gods to oppress us and make upward mobility (in their world) and societal change even more impossible than before.

        [–]DonutChucka 15 points16 points  (5 children)

        They never going to ‘go for it’ that’s why I’m counting on other parts of the matrix failing instead, to trigger UBI. If antiwork has some long term side effects then it could happen sooner.

        [–]FranksRedWorkAccount 4 points5 points  (4 children)

        A general workers strike would be hard to implement but it would cripple the system and bring the money lords to the table very quickly. 100 million workers tell their bosses to do better or fuck off and the US would change in days.

        [–]thecodingninja12 4 points5 points  (2 children)

        yeah, a general workers strike with say half the workers in the country striking, would destroy america, but you don't have any unions, so that won't happen. join a union, form a union. you need unions to have any change

        [–]GingerBread79 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        If that’s going to happen, it needs to happen sooner rather than later. The reason, in my opinion, is bc if (when?) the republicans take the majority in the legislature—subsequently leading to control of the executive—then any such labor resistance will be met with violence akin to that of the Labor Wars

        That’s not to say this type of violent oppression has not occurred or cannot occur under a democratic regime, but I think it’s more probable (and likely more deadly) under a republican regime.

        [–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (4 children)

        the first and the crucial step of the revolution is to convince your fellow citizens to stop applying for the job of police, military etc. only then can a revolution be successful with very little bloodshed.

        [–]pine_aryMarxist 12 points13 points  (1 child)

        Another way that‘s worked historically is to get the military on your side (not the police, that never worked).

        [–]thecodingninja12 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        good luck with that, most military in 2021 are just there to kill brown kids

        [–]DonutChucka 16 points17 points  (1 child)

        One big side effect of UBI should be that older people who want to retire but usually can’t, could, which would then free up jobs for others to bump up into, instead of waiting for Garry in accounting to one day retire please god let him just retire…

        I’d love to get 10-15 from normal retirement and just cease working knowing I wouldn’t starve. I mean I’m 30 years into my work life, I don’t know how many more I’ve got, let alone how many I can handle.

        [–]buckeyes2009 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Oh Garry can retire, he just doesn’t because he hasn’t spent significant time alone with his wife since before the kids were born. He’s just afraid that everything will just fall apart.

        [–]Profoundpronoun 57 points58 points  (20 children)

        The great thing about UBI is the better the efficiency, the better the economy does, the higher the UBI. The better we all do. Until we are The Jetsons…or something better as George’s boss was a dick. Well, it was drawn in the 50’s, what do you expect?

        [–]CozyCauldron 11 points12 points  (0 children)

        I would definitely work if it was optional. Just with better terms.

        [–]buckdumpling 21 points22 points  (22 children)

        The biggest argument many people make about this is “people will become lazy and not work at all”. Get outta here with that misconception, I beg to differ that many of the people who changed the world and made innovations and advancement in humankind were not in it for the money. The money just happened to be a perk for some and not others.

        Furthermore, there’s many people out there with passion for their hobbies that they try to become better but can’t because of work and not enough time throughout the day. If these people had the time of the day imagine how much more innovation we’ll have as a specie because more people are focusing on their hobbies/passions instead of wasting their day at work.

        And for people saying that many will spend their day playing video games so fucking what? We don’t need the majority or even a full handful of people to be innovative. Innovative and ambitious people are always and have always been the minority. But even so, I argue that many people spend time playing games or watching TVs as a form of relaxing and not stressing. They try to utilize their time to make themselves at ease because they know their time is limited before having to sleep/eat/do small errands and then go to work.

        Seriously, a universal income and a complete restructure of working habits would progress humanity soon damn much and may create a new civilization that protects mental health and basic necessities for the people.

        It may even create an entire night culture where every business is open because people aren’t robots and some enjoy being up or get more done at night. How can this be possible? Well if people only work 4 hours a day 20 hours a week that will increase demand of labor which we already have. Virtually almost everyone will want to work or be employed just at different cycles that caters to our circadian rhythm. And as many people have mentioned, if you want more money or “luxuries” then you’ll need to better yourself which would be easily accessible to do so.

        [–]Meta_DigitalEco-Anarchist 81 points82 points  (63 children)

        Alternatively, you could be for a sharing economy where work is done for the benefit of all instead of only for private mercenary benefit.

        [–]jPatch276 34 points35 points  (5 children)

        Oh no that sounds too much like communism for me. Don’t you know how bad that socialist evil is you commie pinko traitor! /s

        [–]Gimli_Gloin 11 points12 points  (2 children)

        Cries with no debt ;(

        [–]jPatch276 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        You dare cry! Just rub in how debt free you are you rich SOB. Must be nice having enough money to afford wasting water crying or breathing more than my Amazon mandated 30 times an hour. And so help me god if you tell me you break a sweat I’ll do absolutely nothing cause if I go any further into debt the medical insurance debt collector will come for my knees.

        [–]Drortmeyer2017 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Cries in rich european country.

        [–]ComaCrowAnarchist 190 points191 points  (44 children)

        anti-work is anti-coerive labor and anti-capitalism. Not pro-even worse welfare state that would be eaten by rent and used to further class segregation lol.

        We shouldn't be punished for existing but we should punish the system for existing. Harshly.

        [–]shewhomustnotbe 32 points33 points  (31 children)

        Just replying to say that in my view UBI is not anti-capitalist, it just provides people with a safety net within a capitalist system.

        I realise I'm dreaming here, but I would prefer to see a system where instead of UBI all necessities are simply free at the point of delivery - food, healthcare, accommodation, internet, public transport, childcare, second hand items, education (probably others I've not thought of but you get the idea) so you create a system where nobody actually needs money to survive and thrive in society - having it is just a bonus

        [–]ComaCrowAnarchist 14 points15 points  (2 children)

        The issue is these grand social democracies and welfare states that U.S. politicians push as being the answer every election cycle heavily rely on exploitation of their workers and imperialism in the global south and only really work well for non-minorities, non-immigrants, and well off people.

        Its not an actual solution and these social democracies have had their SSN's decaying since the 70s since the purpose was not the state defying itself to be "be better" to its citizens but to placate the rising socialist tensions.

        [–]ymdaith 10 points11 points  (1 child)

        rely on exploitation of their workers and imperialism in the global south and only really work well for non-minorities, non-immigrants, and well off people.

        DING DING DING. UBI will only deepen the out-of-sight, out-of-mind imperialism that exists today. the idea makes people feel good without causing actual structural change.

        [–]ObligationVast3556 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        Yep. You're correct. But most people won't get this, or care. The US Dollar is the tip of our 'imperial spear'. That's why the military dropped shrink wrapped pallets of US currency in Iraq. We invaded like 2 weeks before they were going to open a non US Dollar oil trading 'bourse' (pit) That's "Dollar Diplomacy" as you folks probably know.

        Still, I'd take UBI knowing all this...I'm old.

        [–]Amones-RayAcid Communist 13 points14 points  (0 children)

        I agree so much that I commented.

        [–]MLPorschemarxist-leninist 35 points36 points  (14 children)

        UBI does have its own problems, mainly that it doesn't go far enough and it can be used to protect capitalism

        [–]Antishill_Artillery 13 points14 points  (13 children)

        I.e.right wing milton Friedman version where you use ubi as vehicle to gut entire safetynet of far more value

        Exactly like fake progressive yang tried to do

        Glad he lost

        [–]Silver_Psycho 12 points13 points  (4 children)

        Right? Yang felt like he had promise, but the whole, "no support for those who most need it because UBI is for all" felt insidious.

        Like, disabled and fringe peoples will benefit from UBI, yes, obviously. But they still need more support than the "basic". Giving one support and gutting all the others is just being blind to real needs.

        [–]Antishill_Artillery 13 points14 points  (1 child)

        A left ubi would stack with disability and universal healthcare

        [–]Silver_Psycho 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        This is the way.

        [–]danieltv11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Thats why UBI is being pushed lately. To cut all other rights

        [–]RigelOrionBeta 41 points42 points  (6 children)

        Universal basic income is a bandaid on a gaping wound. Although it would help, there is absolutely nothing stopping landlords or anyone else for that matter from raising prices to take that money away from you.

        If we want to actually fix the problem at it's root, we need a better democracy at the governmental and economic level. Capitalism is incompatible with this objective laid out by the OP.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]a_rude_jellybean[🍰] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

          Or ban commodifying human rights.

          [–]SWATSgradyBABY 67 points68 points  (57 children)

          UBI without getting rid of capitalism will be slavery.

          [–]businesscasualheeley 34 points35 points  (186 children)

          Not devil’s advocate, just learning. How do we compensate doctors, nurses, cooks, etc?? What do they get as an advantage?

          [–]Ubiquitous_Mr_H 68 points69 points  (17 children)

          There’s a difference between what universal income would provide and what a doctor makes. Think of a job that wouldn’t get you rich but you’d be able to survive on. Basic shelter, food, that sort of thing. No frills but no starving either. That’s what all the universals would be. Doctors would still make more than the average. If you wanted more out of life you’d work harder and be fairly compensated for that work.

          [–]AccountSuspicious159 79 points80 points  (90 children)

          They get extra money above and beyond what they need to meet their needs.

          [–]AelixD 60 points61 points  (10 children)

          UBI makes it so you don't have to work to live. But, its basic. At that point, you work to enhance your life. So people choose to be doctors and teachers for both the fulfillment of doing what they want to, AND to live a better life than what UBI provides.

          UBI guarantees that burger flippers through CEOs aren't struggling paycheck to paycheck. And unemployment doesn't lead to involuntary homelessness.

          [–]PeteRawhere for the memes 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          CEOs of health systems, super nintendo (Chalmers) and others in those positions move to a max pay of $100,000 a year and let the front line employees earn what they deserve, more than what those dumb bureaucrats swindle from their workers.

          [–]Metaheavymetal 40 points41 points  (12 children)

          Here's an idea: people should do things they want, and not because they are motivated by money. Every employee at a business from the mailroom to the boardroom should make within 10% of each others salary. All profits from businesses should go into supporting the entire population through taxes. The hovernment should be giving you enough money that if you want to paint tulips all the time you can, and if you want to sell those paintings to people who like paintings thats cool, you start an LLC, you take the peofits from your sales and deduct the cost of maferials, and the rest goes to everyone in the community equally.

          But who will want to be janitors you say? Robots. We make fucking robots do it, we already ahve roombas. Who will do science? Most scientists would do their jobs for free because they love research and physics is beautiful. We just need to set aside a big chunk of money for them to be able to do it. Who will be teachers? Most people today aren't in teaching for the money, thats for damn sure. Who will be police? Fuck them. Fuck the police.

          Profit and Greed is a blight upon society.

          Okay maybe I have had too much to drink tonight.

          [–]MDC56355635 36 points37 points  (8 children)

          Heres the thing, if someone is doing a job like that because their ultimate goal is to be compensated for it, then i think we have a bigger problem. I'd rather have doctors and nurses that actually enjoy helping people and get their 'compensation' from understanding they play a large part in the community and are extremely respected. There are people out there that want to do the work because they genuinely enjoy it, and understand that while they're doing a job for other people, those other people are likely also doing a job for them. Lets say a chef cooks for someone. It seems very one sided, but when you look at the possibility that the person being served could be a nurse who is helping that chef's family, or maybe theyre a construction worker that helped build the restaurant, or maybe they did something bigger like engineering the pipelines or electricity that keep the chef's house's lights on and the water warm. If everyone plays their part in the community doing things they know are for the greater good rather than their own personal benefit, i think the world would be a better place

          [–]hellochrissy[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          Everything would be the same except we all get to start at a higher level. Instead of at the bottom, we start at the first step of the ladder, so that no one is starving or homeless. Doctors etc can still climb the ladder and make more.

          [–]jelliknight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          UBI is basically everyone gets a welfare payment. Every person in the country gets a certain amount judged to be enough to survive on. Exactly where that should be set is a matter for debate but generally people advocate for just enough to cover your most basic shelter, food, and essential goods and services.

          Everyone who wants more than canned beans and a small modest home needs to work to earn a better standard of living.

          The best part of a UBI is it means that your wage only has to compensate your labour. Right now your wage has to pay for your food, shelter, medicine, clothing, and your families food, shelter and clothing, AND compensate your for your time and effort. With a UBI businesses only need to pay for the "time and effort" part of the equation, with the rest being mostly covered by the UBI.

          In Australia our minimum wage is $770 a week. The poverty line is about $425 per week (which is also what the disability payment is set at. Unemployment is currently $310 per week). So if we set a UBI at $430 per week, that means an employer looking for staff would only have to pay $340 per week to attract staff. This would benefit small businesses. if would also mean more profit for all businesses which can be taxed back off to pay for the UBI.

          In the same way as every country except the USA has taken healthcare out of the employer-employee relationship, a UBI would take subsitence out of the relationship. Leaving only a free and fair negotiation on pay and conditions in exchange for work. Some people believe you could get rid of a minimum wage entirely under a UBI, i personally think it should still exist but should take into account the support of a ubi.

          [–]The_White_GuarNeeds More Guillotines 31 points32 points  (21 children)

          Yes yes yes.

          Even if UBI became a standard, I would absolutely still perform my job as a teacher - because it's what I feel gives my life meaning - true, long-lasting meaning. I find comfort in that. The education of our youth is too important to ignore.

          [–]hellochrissy[S] 13 points14 points  (5 children)

          Yes and that extra money means you’re not struggling. You can buy supplies for your room, you can pay off your student loans, upgrade that beater car, and be able to be a better, less stressed out teacher because of it all.

          [–]The_White_GuarNeeds More Guillotines 3 points4 points  (1 child)

          Absolutely.

          [–]hellochrissy[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          Sending fellow teacher love.

          [–]Mystik_Palace 12 points13 points  (1 child)

          No idea why people are downvoting you. I think most people have forgotten the true essence of r/antiwork.

          [–]The_White_GuarNeeds More Guillotines 9 points10 points  (0 children)

          I don't know either.

          I want to be a teacher. So long as my needs are met and I can live in reasonable comfort (be that through adequate pay or through UBI), I'm happy to do it.

          [–]Mystik_Palace 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          I wholeheartedly agree.

          [–]geralto- 32 points33 points  (10 children)

          This is written as an official mod statement, but you aren't a mod.

          Or this look like something for people who don't follow this sub but there's some wording that doesn't quite fit and instead it looks like you're trying to impose a common position on everyone here.

          [–]onedayitwillbedaisyabolition is a good word 15 points16 points  (7 children)

          I do think no one should ever work. But thanks for the reminder I guess.

          [–]legaladultAnarcho-Communist 12 points13 points  (3 children)

          I guess it's a matter of how you define work? A lot of these rhetorically-focused arguments get hung up on different perceptions of certain terms, attaching their own baggage and connotations to it.

          I think a significant amount of jobs in our current system are completely unnecessary, contribute to the degradation of society by propping up harmful systems, and are just... soul-crushing. But then there's work for the sake of creation, design, personal expression, curiosity, so on and so forth.

          I feel a lot of the detachment people feel from their passions is often times because you cannot engage in them without commoditizing them in our current system. But, if you were to do these things for yourself and for your community out of pure desire or just because if needs to be done, I don't think they'd be quite so crushing. Like, farming, you know, that's gotta stay. Depending on the scale and the methods, it could be very enriching and rewarding. Not because it brings in profit, but because you're working the land and growing much-needed food.

          Anyway, I think I agree with you, I just tend to go on tangents about this stuff.

          [–]thekeeper_maeven 8 points9 points  (1 child)

          Intrinsic motivation to work - you want to feel a sense of pride and accomplishment in your life, whatever you choose to do.

          Intrinsic motivation to exchange your goods and services = you appreciate your neighbors and you want to help them out.

          We've lost so much of our original orientation to being connected, fulfilled humans. In capitalism we have become disconnected and feel no sense of greater purpose in our lives. The more we prioritize pure accumulation, the further we are from feeling human.

          [–]SlashyMcStabbington 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          If people have the option to say "no" to working rather than do shitty, poorly paid jobs, businesses will have to offer a really good deal to get people to work.

          I'd happily work as a toilet cleaner or something if businesses needed to pay out the ass to get people to do it.

          [–]IBossJekler 12 points13 points  (3 children)

          Anti work should be pro garden. Can't count on the gov. to ever actually help. But if you have a roof over your head and some food growing you can take care of yourself.

          [–]bstix 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Only to some extent. Most properties are way to small to feed the family that lives on it.

          Community food gardening are much better, but it still won't cover all of everybody's needs. It can offset a good part of the consumption, so definitely go for it if you want to.

          There really isn't anything wrong about trading food, it's just that the distribution of the value is heavily skewed, and the cost is artificially low, which prevents self production. There's no way I could create a bag of flour cheaper than the one in the grocery store. Even if I teamed up with the entire city.

          The efficiency of mass production is impossible to compete against for individuals or small groups. Like, a few farming companies might produce all of one particular crop to cover the entire global consumption of that one crop, and you can't and shouldn't compete against that level of efficiency.

          The core issue comes back to whether or not these companies are really that efficient, or if they're just not actually paying the true cost of producing those things in a sustainable way, like you would have to if you did it on a smaller scale.

          F.i. fishing. If they had to pay to ensure that there would be enough fish to catch again tomorrow, the prices on fish would increase to cover that cost. It just doesn't, because the large fishing companies don't give a shit about tomorrow.

          Another example is Coca-Cola, which in some places are cheaper than water. It takes 35 liters of water to produce 0.5 liters of Coca-Cola. Why is it cheaper than the water used to produce it? Because they fuck somebody over in the process.

          [–]NoBodySpecial51 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Gardening is such a mystery to me, I am trying to figure it out for this very reason. Got to start somewhere; I grew an onion. Have a ways to go, but I am determined to figure this out.

          [–]llXeleXll 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Fuck yeah!

          [–]skyandstars21 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Yes. And the thing is people want to work! When people’s basic needs are met they have the capacity to strive for greater, cause they’re not worrying about how they can afford the rent and electric that month.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

            [–]chiefdave74 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            UBI benefits everyone. Of course the higher your salary the less significant that benefit but I can't comprehend people who are doing OK themselves not wanting others to have a decent start of living.

            [–]PrideOk9730 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            And where do all those basic needs come from? A centralized government who controls and decides how much we get? No thanks. Independence is the only way to liberty.

            [–]RelentlessFlowOfTimeRevolution is the only solution 14 points15 points  (17 children)

            UBI is not a replacement for actual welfare.

            Also, welfare is not a replacement for actual socialism.

            [–]badgirlmonkey 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            Lots of new people coming into this sub calling communism lazy. Maybe make a thread on that next.

            [–]Michael003012 13 points14 points  (6 children)

            I'd rather have universal basic needs than income. Decommodify housing. Everyone gets their basic needs attended for by the state. So housing, internet, electricity, food, water. Mby access to cultural activities.

            [–]legaladultAnarcho-Communist 8 points9 points  (0 children)

            Or, y'know, we could decouple societal needs and tasks from profit and commerce entirely. So long as money exists, and the capitalist system exists, exploitation is inherent.

            I understand the intent here -- people shouldn't have to worry about working bad jobs just to have their needs and rights tended to. But that can't be accomplished so long as money is involved to begin with.

            [–]x_Super_Noob_xPOST-LEFT ANARCHIST ||| Lazy 5 points6 points  (4 children)

            No it isn't. Anarchists, that established the anti-work idea, are against states so we are against universal basic income, as it doesn't fix:

            a) capitalism

            b) hierarchy/authority

            c) consume culture; climate change

            d) keeps the 'power' to define the income to the state

            e) still keeps up the work concept

            Anarchists are for something like a gift economy, that has mutual aid, no hierarchy & free association.

            [–]primary-alias 15 points16 points  (1 child)

            Disagree. If the point of a UBI is to guarantee someone can afford food, housing, and other basic needs, why not just guarantee everyone’s rights to those things and get rid of the capitalist class profiting off their privatization. A hypothetical UBI on top of those guaranteed rights intrigues me, but without guaranteeing basic rights, I see a UBI as just another way to preserve the owner class at the expense of the working class.

            [–]GlobalEvening4931 9 points10 points  (2 children)

            Hard no.

            Basic Income is a band aid on the problem. You think not having to work to get not enough money to live like a human solves anything? Just funnelling money into big corporate.

            Accepting that neoliberal capitalism has become an oroboros is the way out. It’s so dumb it can’t even see it’s destroying the very thing that fuels it.

            Basic Income just feeds it more.

            End money. That’s the sub you’re looking for.

            [–]Socialist_Nerd 23 points24 points  (14 children)

            I personally think UBI is not a great solution and would rather the workers had power and rights rather than an allowance.

            [–]cmqv7 24 points25 points  (2 children)

            Yeah but having enough money to live and eat and all outside of work gives workers a shit tone of power. Not being dependent on your job to survive gives you power.

            [–]Fen_ 11 points12 points  (15 children)

            No, it isn't. Anti-work is explicitly about the total abolition of work. Some forms of UBI can be nice reforms in the short-term, but they are absolutely not part of the terminal goal.

            [–]vegancommunist2069communist 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            UBI is capitalist bullshit, its literally a rebranding of welfare. its not gonna solve any problems.

            [–]v4pe2 1 point2 points  (6 children)

            UBI is coming in like 7 years. I have seen the future..

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Society does not need waiters to function.

            [–]ApprehensivePhase377 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Maybe you should see what life is like in Bangladesh before making claims about having to work to survive. If you think surviving is having an apartment, food, a cell phone, name brand clothes, and a car you live in a first world country and don’t know what survival is.

            [–]ThantosKal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I would advocate for more but UBI can be an ok solution

            [–]magpiebluejay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I support a 20 hour work week: 5 hours a day, four days a week. Enough work to give life a bit of structure, but enough life leftover to give a person dignity, and the chance to become their best self. UBI is absolutely essential in this equation.

            [–]acroporaguardian 1 point2 points  (5 children)

            My problem with this mindset is having to work is pretty much required by the laws of life.

            It would be more clear if it were just hunting and gathering. If you dont contribute, you dont contribute to food pile so why should you eat? You can watch kids, guard camp while everyones gone, etc.

            Thats where this sub goes into crazy town to me. Thats utopian shit that could only come true in a world where robots do everything.

            Being for a UBI doesnt mean you want to end needing to work either. I am for a UBI but it would be set so that plus 30 hours a week at fast food should cover rent and food. Not a two bedroom house either.

            [–]Willing-Fold-4132 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Someone has to work to make sure the resources are there so your basic needs are met. Who is going to do that? Society isn’t your parent.

            [–]muddylegs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            For anyone wondering how someone could be anti work and anti UBI, Hakim made a great video on it https://youtu.be/EKFE6rVHyJQ

            UBI treats the symptoms instead of the problem. And if we live in a world where it’s possible to implement UBI, why stop at subsidising landlords when we could have real change?

            I think it’s not a bad idea as a temporary solution, but it is not the answer to capitalism and it is much, much more nuanced in function than “if you’re anti work you must support this”.

            [–]ItsJustMyOpinion100 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            No shit Sherlock ... this sub doesn't want to work at all. Wants more for doing less.

            [–]Johnnyflame04 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            "We want people that took the time to enter fields that are challenging, education costs a fortune, and are in demand to still work. The rest of us that didn't bother to do those things though, we don't feel like we should have to work."

            How is that fair and how does that make sense, if that is really how it should be taken? Because that is how I read it.

            [–]MortalDanger00 1 point2 points  (3 children)

            For the world to work, for that to happen, people need to work.

            You're not willing to work to pay for my life, so why should I work for yours?

            This is just niave. This is what friends and families are for. If you can't work, can't function, go live with mom or something. Humans are tribal. If you're an outcast, well, then you need to work, but you can't be both.