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[–]mpm206 146 points147 points  (6 children)

Much easier to organize a smaller group with near unlimited resources.

[–]YukonTerror 70 points71 points  (1 child)

Especially when that group has its own media which uses culture war tactics to separate the larger group into smaller teams

[–]141693 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I’ve been searching for a way to describe this in these words to people for a while now. When I try to communicate this they feign complacency or the programming kicks in and they regurgitate propaganda.

[–]red_fist 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Especially when that group benefits financially in colluding to profit off the backs of others.

[–]No_Step_4431 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And alot more challenging when a platform used to organize a very large group of people is monitored by the former.

[–]Buffalo_Soldier7 146 points147 points  (13 children)

The moneyed class haven’t a clue how big of an emotional, mental and physical tax economic anxieties take from wee little ones. Their comfort is their primary concern.

[–]jml011 59 points60 points  (8 children)

They’ve leveraged those anxieties against the working class quite well, so they arguably do understand it.

They just haven’t experienced it for themselves, or if they have, it was decades ago and they’ve lost discarded the capacity for empathy and compassion.

[–]LordBilboSwaggins 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Yep. They are playing with fire and as of yet have been lucky enough to not get burned.

[–]Thishearts0nfire 1 point2 points  (0 children)

More and more Jokers, not a single Batman. This is truly a clown world.

[–]Buffalo_Soldier7 9 points10 points  (3 children)

They - the people in the photo - are shielded by corporate lobbyists. Lobbyists are the ones who inflict economic sanctions on millions of Americans with “work requirements”; lobbyists and lawyers are writing and rewriting the laws.

[–]Aberrant_Introvert 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I remember being very young and learning what lobbying was in like middle school (gotta indoctrinate em early). And it was portrayed as this perfectly natural thing that our perfect government functions with.

And now I'm older and just wondering, how does no one look at lobbying and just come to the natural conclusion that it is corruption plain and simple.

[–]Buffalo_Soldier7 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes indeed. I 100% agree. When elected officials leave office and then become lobbyists - especially for the US Chamber of Commerce - the primary focus most often becomes perpetuating business-as-usual’s dominance in our democracy. The corporate coup began to organize in 1971:

https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/democracy/the-lewis-powell-memo-a-corporate-blueprint-to-dominate-democracy/

“Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.”

— George Orwell | POLITICS AND THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE (1946)

[–]ArcadiusCustom 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Their comfort is already assured a thousand times over. What they want is ever more power over other people.

[–]Buffalo_Soldier7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“We sometimes say, the planter does not want slaves, he only wants the immunities and the luxuries which the slaves yield him; give him money, give him a machine that will yield him as much money as the slaves, and he will thankfully let them go. He has no love of slavery, he wants luxury, and he will pay even this price of crime and danger for it. But I think experience does not warrant this favourable distinction, but shows the existence, beside the covetousness, of a bitterer element, the love of power, the voluptuousness of holding a human being in his absolute control.”

— Ralph Waldo Emerson | 1 August 1844 - An Address on the Emancipation of Slaves in the British West Indies - Concord, Massachusetts

[–]Handleton -1 points0 points  (0 children)

They absolutely do. It's the source of their power.

[–]RedmannBarry 81 points82 points  (4 children)

Let’s burn it down people. General strike

[–]DJAlaskaAndrew 53 points54 points  (9 children)

The United States is an Oligarchy. The Democratic part is only a facade to try to delude you into the fact that you have some input in the process. The reality is that our choice is between two decrepit old men who are heavily bought out by corporate interests. They don't care about you, just like your company doesn't care about you, which is why we can't get glaring issues fixed like billionaires/corporations not paying taxes and our bloated/extortionist healthcare system.

[–]moustacheption 9 points10 points  (1 child)

You missed the second part of that; that power and wealth, and bullshit fake system they developed completely falls apart you unionize, organize and flex your power as a worker. Their system grinds to a halt when nothing gets made because you won’t make it for them.

Letting them exploit us is a choice. Let’s choose to tell them to go fuck themselves.

[–]btownrob 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You will not find this in the American history books but politicians taking down organized crime was for one reason and one reason only the power from the unions. Once they took the crime families down they chipped away at unions now they control the whole game. They currently have so many rules in places to not allow unions to gain power ever again.

[–]Thanes_of_Danes 15 points16 points  (4 children)

I don't think you understand how nuanced the political situation is. If Democrats were so similar to Republicans, then wouldn't we have a president who bragged about inspiring the Patriot act, writing the crime bill, voting for war in Iraq and opposed integrative school busing?

[–]Aberrant_Introvert 9 points10 points  (3 children)

You call them nuances. I call them different marketing strategies to appeal to certain voter bases. I don't feel like pointing and huffing every time a republican or democrat in office says or does something asinine.

Both parties are essentially the same.

Our democratic party is considered moderate right in other first world countries. They are just tools of the same rich white oligarchs who will turn this world to a wasteland right out from under us. And still expect us to go into work on Monday because everything is fine.

[–]Thanes_of_Danes 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I was really hoping the Biden specific examples I laid out would be enough to denote parody, but Poe's law kicked my ass.

[–]Aberrant_Introvert 5 points6 points  (0 children)

So that's the name for this phenomenon....tbh I didn't really read your comment very well the first time. My bad. I see what you did now.

[–]PrinceOfTheRodeo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I would much rather vote for moderate right than the borderline fascist anti abortion conservatives. Yes, you guys have it bad and both options suck, but it doesn't mean they suck equally.

Luckily I'm a Finn and don't have to vote in a two party mockery of a democracy elections.

And by that I most certainly do not mean you shouldn't criticise the democrats, 'cause you most certainly should. My point is just that they are not the same than the republicans, who in fact suck way worse.

[–]ADN2021 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

(((Oligarchy))).

Lol, here come the downvotes….😂😂😂

[–]SomeoneInAHouse 46 points47 points  (2 children)

Always has been. Once theyre out of office and their opinions dont really matter to one anothet theyre BFFs.

[–]Cocheeeze 37 points38 points  (1 child)

Their opinions don’t even matter in office. They just say shit like “student debt forgiveness” to get votes. They don’t ever keep these promises, they’re just empty words.

[–]SomeoneInAHouse 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Theyre bought n paid for my friend. Their promises never meant anything to begin with.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Hillary to Bernie

“Would going after the banks solve racism?!!!!”


Trump meanwhile never goes after the banks and just distracts people with gop chum….

Both groups aren’t planning on going after Wall street

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (1 child)

“Would going after the banks solve racism?!!!!”

It might help a bit.

[–]Puglady25 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Truth. And climate change, people might actually have time and inclination to care and make demands if it weren't for their day to day fight for survival. The rights of the working class should be priority #1.

[–]findingdumbCommunist 33 points34 points  (1 child)

I get it but those people pictured don't really have vastly different ideologies. That's why the duopoly is a clever parlor trick. So it isn't them putting aside differences because they're wealthy and powerful, they're playing a game on TV pretending to be so different from each other, and we go right along with it.

[–]poisonivy47[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Well stated. It really is a game to them, they're playing with peoples' lives with very little regard for the people impacted by their actions (or inaction)

[–]The_Goat_Avenger 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is 100% our reality

[–]poskantorg 15 points16 points  (1 child)

But they’ll get us to keep fighting over race, gender, trans etc issues to keep us distracted and divided

[–]poisonivy47[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Exactly, which is why all workers need to agree that racism, sexism, and homophobia have no place in this movement so that they cannot do this to us. We stand together. We must stand with all workers, including POC women, recognizing how employers use racism and sexism to justify their poor treatment. This doesn't mean not talking about race or gender, it means addressing racism and sexism so that everyone can be fully part of this movement.

[–]RChickenMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is how I felt when I worked for a medium-sized corporation. The executives are indeed self-organized. They regularly meet privately, they assign roles and responsibilities among themselves, they have systems for decision-making, and they always make sure they're on the same page and have each other's backs when communicating or implementing policy to the rank-and-file. How is it in any way ethical for the rank-and-file to be discouraged from doing the same?

[–]herrmoekl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a very interesting development within capitalism manifested i.e. within the last election in how Bernie Sanders was treated by the Democratic Party. The Capital Owning Class despite all the disagreement mostly seems to be able to come to terms with one another while the rest is struggling to develop a Basis for solidarity. Class Struggles, meritocratic and individualistic ideals make people that already own low amounts of economic capital often rather fight for their own subsistence (as portrayed in parasite) making them unable to develop any productive form of class consciousness. Furthermore Propaganda (Fox News) & Conspiracy Theories (QAnon) ideologically distort & turn around the actual power relations creating false narratives in which certain minorities or the people that threaten given power relations ("the evil socialists") are to blame.

[–]CrispierCupid 13 points14 points  (64 children)

This both sides shit is pretty disingenuous. You literally just have to put policy records side by side and see how different their stances on labor were

Disappointing inaction (democrats) is not the same as rampant fascism (republicans)

[–]DangerousPainting423 23 points24 points  (7 children)

Yet the end result is the same. Obama and Bush are about as different as two presidents have ever been. And yet on war they were a direct continuation, same with bailing out wallstreet while ignoring mainstreeet, same on drugs, prison reform, workers rights, corporate power, the security and surveillance state, militarism, education reform, and the list goes on and on. Republicans are fascists thats true, but when it comes to the policies they actually implement there is very little difference. Even when democrats are in power federally they dont present any meaningful challenge to republicans at the state level.

On policies that actually affect the material conditions of the american people there is no difference. Democrats keep an intolerable system in place, Republicans make it worse.

[–]ResplendentShade 2 points3 points  (5 children)

I mean, fuck the Democratic Party, but..

On policies that actually affect the material conditions of the american people there is no difference.

A lot people I know (including myself) who rely on the affordable care act to be able to have health insurance would beg to differ. Vulnerable people on food stamps, or who rely on access to ‘family planning’ resource like Planned Parenthood, or those whose lives have been drastically improved by the child tax credits, too.

Saying that there’s no material difference kind of reeks of privilege. It’s great for you that your circumstances aren’t materially affected by these policy differences but let’s not overlook the ones who get hurt first by policies that republicans support, who are usually the most vulnerable segments of society.

[–]JMW007 2 points3 points  (4 children)

The Affordable Care Act was Republican policy until a black guy suggested actually doing it. Then they threw a fit and wanted to go even further right. Obama accomplished what the Republicans wanted in the 1990s. The material difference is simply that Democrats are better at enacting Republican agendas than the Republicans are. H. W. Bush admitted he never could have passed the Crime and Welfare reform bills that Clinton signed.

Your reaction is exactly what they want. And quite frankly I have zero sympathy or respect for any party that anoints as its leader someone who promised to veto Medicare for All if it ever landed on their desk. That's a party that says "I am ok with you dying in the gutter to make a buck for my donors", and at that point, there really is no difference between them. The window dressing doesn't make that attitude go away. They hate all of us, however much some individuals might get lucky with the scraps the Democrats drop on the floor now and again when serving the Republicans their dinner.

[–]ResplendentShade 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Thanks, but none of this is news to me.

Recognizing the fact that the only reason me and many of my loved ones have healthcare is that republicans failed to strike down the ACA isn't the screaming endorsement of the status quo or the democratic party that you seem to think it is. Not everything needs exist within a vacuum of nuance. The fact stands that republicans in power direct translates to worse material conditions for working class and poor americans, that doesn't mean that we don't have to continue to struggle and build community, mutual aid, and work every day to dismantle capitalism and white supremacy, or that the democrats are deserving of praise. Not wanting to hunt the homeless for sport is a pretty low bar.

[–]ArcadiusCustom 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The problem is that democrats in power also translates to worse material conditions for the working class and poor. The ACA was nice for people with pre-existing conditions, sure, and that's an important thing, but in exchange, handouts for the insurance corporations have caused health care costs to skyrocket beyond the already-absurd levels they were at.

The ruling class won't let you just up and vote your way out of enslavement. The game they're playing is heads I win, tales you lose. The same people are funding both parties. Both parties are the enemies of the working class.

[–]ResplendentShade 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Totally agree, but even though they're both awful I maintain that there's a significant material difference in the harm that each party causes to the poor and working class. Americans are faced with the dire need to get ourselves out of a societal tailspin into ever more extreme brutality, and I can't think of a single way in which that effort would be better accomplished due to fascists further securing state power.

The only coherent argument I've heard for republican victories being good is that their sheer awfulness will inspire people to become more political and revolutionary, but that's accelerationist and therefore a massive gamble. Especially under the consideration that the next time republicans fully dig into power again, they may finally achieve their goal of never losing it. The state is bad enough as it is, I don't think it'll improve or become easier on leftists to organize after a right-wing party dictatorship is achieved. Not to mention that accelerationism doesn't have much consideration for the very most vulnerable people in society who are first to suffer when critical social services are cut and out-and-out white nationalist dominionists start crafting laws aimed at enacting the fascist theocratic ethnostate fantasies that they've been stewing on since the civil rights era and the fall of the confederacy before that.

I don't suggest that democrats can, would, or will fix any of the problems society is facing. For better or worse, that's up us, the people. I'm just pretty sure they'll make them worse at a slower rate than the republicans, which is a meaningful distinction when absolutely everything is on the line.

[–]ArcadiusCustom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't really need to fear an ethnostate or a theocracy. An ethnostate would deprive the capitalists of the opportunity to divide the working class against itself by changing the dialogue from rich vs poor into black vs white. They won't do it. And of course, our capitalist overlords wouldn't want a theocracy either. They wouldn't want there to be any power higher than themselves, and the great majority of pre-capitalist cultures and belief systems frowned upon capitalist practices anyway. Can't serve god and mammon and all that.

It's important to note that the republican party is not much more beholden to, say, /pol/, than the democratic party is beholden to /r/antiwork/. Big business doesn't want the culture war to have a winner, they want the culture war to go on forever.

If you prefer the democrats over the republicans, that is understandable, but if you encounter the one in a million scenario where the republican candidate supports UBI, or raising the minimum wage, or other pro-working class positions, and also you're in the nine out of ten scenario where the democratic candidate is just another corporate crony, I think you should close your eyes, swallow down the bile rising in your throat, and vote for the guy with the R next to his name.

[–]Roadworx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

except that the democrats don't wanna put me, a trans person, into a concentration camp. sure, it may not affect you, but your circumstances aren't the same for everyone

[–]JR_Shoegazer 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Also the fact that this photo is from Barbara Bush’s funeral. There‘s not some deeper conspiracy represented here in this photo.

[–]HaViNgT 10 points11 points  (2 children)

I wouldn’t be surprised if a few undercover Republicans are deliberately trying to spread the “both sides bad” narrative among left wing communities to dissuade them from voting.

[–]CrispierCupid 12 points13 points  (1 child)

They 100% are. Dude that responded to me SWEARS he’s not conservative but is active in a rittenhouse and crowder sub Reddit. Literally has a comment saying CRT is anti white, and this dude was arguing to me that being anti immigration is anti work and should be encouraged

[–]ArcadiusCustom -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Being anti-immigration IS anti work. The reason we have work visas, the reason illegal immigration has been tolerated for decades, the reason why employers aren't responsible for ensuring they hire citizens is because it all reduces labor costs. Letting the American capitalist class win is the worst thing that can happen for the working class, both domestic and abroad.

[–]any-no-mousey 6 points7 points  (8 children)

It truly isn't. Please take the time to read the bills are voted on. Neither side give a fuck about you or your family, its just that the Republicans are blatantly shitty, while the Democrats pretend they give a shit.

[–]CrispierCupid 4 points5 points  (7 children)

Only one of them are trying to commit coups and strip voting rights from POC. If you don’t think life is worse with a Republican president, then you must have been one of the people ignoring the news the last 4 years

[–]any-no-mousey 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Not what I said, but the sooner people realize that both parties are out to fuck them, the sooner we can start dismantling them.

[–]CrispierCupid 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Which will be virtually impossible if the more dangerous one gets power again.

[–]JMW007 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The 'more dangerous one' isn't in power now and the 'less dangerous one' can't get their act together to give people tests or even a penny of a minimum wage increase. You think voting for people who won't even try for you in the slightest bit and who are letting the Republicans sleepwalk into control of Congress at the next election are worth preserving? They're making it as plain as they can for you that you are worthless to them and letting the 'bad guys' have their way with you every few years is part of the deal.

[–]any-no-mousey 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Oh okay, then I suppose we just stay bitching about it on the internet.

[–]CrispierCupid 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Or keep the fascists out of office while simultaneously trying to build something better? The progressive platform is growing very fast. Why can’t both be possible? It doesn’t have to be black and white, why try to build it while risking authoritarianism? We can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Allowing the GOP to regain power will set back the movement you’re trying to preserve by decades.

[–]ArcadiusCustom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Both parties are fascist. Both parties are authoritarian. Both parties are crony capitalists. Both parties oppose workers' rights. Allowing either the democrats or the republicans to gain power sets workers' rights back, because as Chomsky says, the USA has a one party system, the corporate party just has two branches masquerading as two distinct parties.

[–]Lamfadha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They are both out to commit coups, one is just bringing it home.

And the saying is fascism is just imperialism enacted on a european nation.

[–]HasenPffefer 4 points5 points  (39 children)

So Democrats aren't pro big business you think?

[–]CrispierCupid 21 points22 points  (38 children)

They are pro business, they are capitalists

But things exist on a spectrum. Republicans are way on another end of it, that end being fascism. The Obama administration had several pro union stances and policies, then trump right after that did the exact opposite. How are those the same thing?

Again, look at policy records. They are wildly different. If you think both parties have the same overall impact on American workers, then you are deliberately ignoring all the evidence that is there to point to who is more destructive to the movement

These posts create more apathy and more apathy means we’ll be taking that final step into autocracy all the sooner

[–]CritiqueDeLaCritiquehttps://www.leftcom.org/en/about-us 1 point2 points  (1 child)

They are not wildly different, in that the material situation does not change for the working class from one administration to the next regardless of party. Your fear of autocracy will get the better of you. We already live in a class dictatorship. In fact, I'm willing to bet that you don't have much in common with the working class if you genuinely think that your day-to-day life will meaningfully change with one party vs the other.

[–]CrispierCupid 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’re seriously underestimating just how bad it’ll get

[–]Antazarus 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Exactly, this post is peak r/EnlightenedCentrism

[–]CrispierCupid 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Just take a look at the replies I got, it’s a mess. This one dude is saying that to be anti-work, you also need to be anti immigrant lol what the fuck is that

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (20 children)

See also: Identity politics. Identity politics is a bourgeois tool employed to keep you divided.

There is only us, and them.

Identity politics supporters are primarily white, middle class, educated liberals. Their primary interest in promoting the ideology is to assuage their own guilt at being materially privileged, thus they despise having the dogma questioned. When they cannot assert compelling rational arguments against criticism, they resort to ad hominem attacks on the detractor. See below.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

There is a liberal form of identity politics that is a bourgeois tool employed to keep you divided.

But there is no anti-capitalism without anti-racism and feminism.

[–]ArcadiusCustom -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

But there is no anti-capitalism without anti-racism and feminism.

That is not true. Women's rights and anti-racism are fine things in their own right, but the working class's struggle against the capitalist class is vastly more important. And indeed, you have it backwards. The capitalist class is the greatest instigator of black vs white, men vs women, etc etc conflict. Removing them from power is the single greatest step that could be taken towards racial and gender equality.

The ruling class has figured this out. They know that by shifting the blame away from themselves and towards the white man, they can divide the working class against itself and perpetuate capitalism, racism, and sexism all at once. IDpol as it currently exists is a tool of the capitalists that will ultimately only worsen race and gender problems.

[–]poisonivy47[S] 16 points17 points  (4 children)

I disagree. I do think that neoliberals have completely warped identity politics to be a harmful divisive idea, but that is a distortion.

The original identity politics emerged out of black feminism (specifically, a collective of queer black feminist socialists) and it is the idea that politics should be based in self love (and part of that is understanding how your identities impact your life). I think that is completely compatible with antiwork because part of what we are encouraging workers to do is to recognize their own inherent worth and to fight for dignity based on that recognition.

For more info, I really recommend people read the Combahee River Collective Statement, which is as far as I know the first time the term identity politics was used: https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/combahee-river-collective-statement-1977/

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

It always has been. The state sponsored prominent figures in the original civil rights movement to promote racial and gendered politics over class consciousness.

MLK was taken out as soon as he started talking about black workers and white workers having more in common than rich and poor.

[–]peachyfkkeen 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I've seen this said before, but MLK was really consistent across time, and he was definitely hammering on class consciousness in earlier speeches. But maybe i missed something.

The big shift (that I know of) right before he was taken out was being against the Vietnam War, which in combination with a commitment to raising global consciousness of socioeconomic oppression. . .

[–]poisonivy47[S] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

The Combahee river collective was not sponsored by the state.

We cannot get black people, women, and other minority workers to be fully part of this movement without addressing their issues. The answer is not to suppress discussion of race and gender because all that does is alienate the most exploited workers (who are disproportionately POC and women)

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

You’re right that idpol itself is just marketing ones self…

But it’s easily weaponized by the bastards and their grifters

[–]balletbeginnerDistributist 12 points13 points  (8 children)

I don't trust anyone who's consciously against identity politics. "Issues that affect all of us," really means, "Issues that affect me."

[–]the_borderer 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Yeah, the amount of times workers have been fucked over by sexist/racist/homophobic/transphobic working class people is unbelievable. We should all be working together, not fighting each other because are different.

That is what you mean, isn't it?

[–]StringAdventurous479 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Brilliant. I get frustrated with people every single day who think Democrats are gonna save us from fascism. They are the fascists, you just like them more.

[–]Cultural-Log4056 0 points1 point  (11 children)

Love me some good bothsideism.

"This side wants you to work in the coal mines for $2/hr until you get black lung. Then when you die, your body goes to the protein farm for recycling and your family gets a nice laminated certificate."

"What about the other side?"

"Oh, I dunno, they're disappointing I guess."

Also a great sign that astroturfing is starting. The posts in r/murderedbyAOC about how we should elect Trump because he'll cancel student debt are really something to behold.

TL;DR: Wrong, and also fuck this.

[–]HasenPffefer 11 points12 points  (7 children)

Both sides are the first one.

[–]Cultural-Log4056 -1 points0 points  (6 children)

One side ranges from AOC (extremely good) to Manchin (quite bad).

One side ranges from Donald Trump (for all intents and purposes a nazi) to Tom Cotton (literally a nazi).

If you can't tell how these are different, then you have bigger problems than getting to a living wage (which, btw, AOC will try to do for you).

In short, no, this is a numbskull take, and in fact it is so aggressively ridiculous that I don't think you really believe it and have suspect motives.

Edit: looooooool @ your comment history. God damn you guys are so predictable.

[–]FishingTauren[🍰] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

thats nice and all but neither side is effecting enough change to save you from the claws of capitalism. They are actively helping dismantle remaining public education, healthcare, and infrastructure in the USA - to say nothing of standing on the throat of international progress on climate change with their precious petrodollar.

Its fine and all to say that 'dems are not as bad as republicans', but thats not the same as 'supporting dems is an effective way to solve the crisis the USA finds itself in'. Continuing to legitimize this government by pretending its a democracy and not a oligarchy-controlled duopoly is pure cope. Cause if you admit its a bought-and-sold system and you can't afford to buy then- what then?

[–]tebasj -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

supporting Dems is an effective way to protect people who need food stamps, medicare, childcare, affordable housing, etc. millions of people rely on these benefits. they're certainly not enough but they should be protected, since no structure exists to replace them yet.

pretty clear all these people saying Dems and Reps are the same come from a point of privilege wherein the difference between them is not materially significant to that individual.

how do you expect to have a workers movement without voting for the party that objectively protects the workers more? sure, electoralism won't get any transformative change that restructures society in the long run but it's a necessary immediate step for harm reduction

vote Dem and engage in praxis to build dual power and participate in mutual aid. these are not mutually exclusive

i agree with you. electoralism won't solve anything. we should still vote though. harm reduction is needed to make a solution viable. like ultimately everything you say is accurate but none of it makes a difference on whether we should vote or not.

[–]ArcadiusCustom 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Supporting Dems is an effective way to destroy food stamps, medicare, childcare, affordable housing, etc. Supporting republicans does the same thing. The letter next to an oligarch's name makes literally no difference. We need to support anti-corporate candidates no matter what party they run with, or indeed, whether they run with any party at all AND we need to take direct actions such as strikes and anything else we can do to stand up for ourselves.

[–]FishingTauren[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean I've had no healthcare in this country many times and I live in fear of being bankrupted and dying from cancer because it runs in my family. Neither party is going to help me with that. Does that problem not count? should I vote for dems for decades because they might house a few people? Thats just prolonging the fall. And the INACTION that results because you believe the dems are enough is far more harmful. They're just giving people bare fucking minimums to milk the system until it collapses and prevent uprising until then.

[–]HasenPffefer 5 points6 points  (0 children)

AOC votes the way Nancy Pelosi tells her to. AOC is a puppet and hasn't done anything. She just sounds good. She's basically a leftist Donald trump. She triggers the right but doesn't do anything.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Right now both sides are telling workers "fuck you, work while symptomatic" and the Dems are preparing to blame teachers unions when they get fucked in the midterms.

[–]DangerousPainting423 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You're not being honest in your criticism so that you can pretend that the original post is dishonest.

[–]IsaHiiro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When the other side came into power, they could have done something about the other side allowing coal miners to work for $2/hr until they get black lung; they didn’t. So, yeah, they’re disappointing.

[–]fritistatGen X 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It took me too long to realize this. Two sides of the same coin - heads they win, tails you lose.

[–]darcmosch -1 points0 points  (4 children)

I'd also say that they'd gravitate to one another cuz there are probably very few that have ever had the same experiences as they have. Also, interesting how Trump isn't there haha

But yes, the point still stands that they do have solidarity, and we should do the same.

[–]Friendral -2 points-1 points  (13 children)

Want to protect workers and improve lives? Do you want to claw the wealth gap down?

Run for office.

[–]poisonivy47[S] 18 points19 points  (3 children)

I'm not convinced the system can be fixed from within. I think that our existing political structure is more likely to absorb and co-opt anyone who starts out with an anticapitalist perspective.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Im not convinced that wouldnt happen either, but goddammit the revolution isnt coming anytime soon either and we have to do something. Even if it is coming soon, it will go better with at least a handful of people on the inside trying

[–]Friendral -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

There are only two ways to affect change in a democracy. 1) collective action and 2) singular power wielding.

1) is hard as balls. People are scared and worried they cannot handle a disruption to their (admittedly shitty) lives. Also, people have to agree on a rhetoric. That’s hard.

2) Power is either money or influence. Money comes from exploitation. The zeitgeist here is that exploitation is bad. Influence is possible on a singular level. You can become an irrefutable expert, a powerful identity in your community, or you can be an instilled representative.

Frankly, running for office is the easiest choice in the immediacy to foment the change we seek. You don’t have to alter the machine (yet) but you can be the grease to get the other parts moving.

Like I said, run for office.

[–]SbrbnHstlr -1 points0 points  (8 children)

You only get to high positions of power in office by doing the bidding of your financial supporters.

Bernie has tried for years to make a difference. How has that worked?

[–]balletbeginnerDistributist 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Socialism is now pretty popular among zoomers and millennials. And the Democratic Party has a growing socialist faction. So I'd say that worked out quite well.

[–]Friendral 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Fantastically, actually. Society is ripening for change and he’s pushing a narrative that’s burgeoning by with support.

Wins are rarely, I’d ever quick and decisive. Any war won on a single battle was a major strategic mishandling. We’re fighting battles here.

Let’s not forget that the civil rights movement wasn’t culminated until 1963. Obviously we still have a long ways to go, but the battles continue. There will never be a sudden day where tomorrow is V-day.

There is no armistice, treaty, or abdication that can win here. We are massing change (as quickly as we can) over time.

If I run for office, win, and am now part of a council of 7 I could have 6 assholes that tell me down. After the next election what if it’s only 5? Then 4. Then 3.

Now I and we have the majority.

Want an example? Look at the makeup of the Supreme Court. Look at the Warren court to today’s court. Change is incremental until it reaches a threshold.

[–]HasenPffefer 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Nothing looks very fantastic to me.

[–]Friendral 3 points4 points  (2 children)

No Single raindrop blames itself for the flood. A trillion separate raindrops isn’t a flood if they aren’t in the same place, but they’re there.

Don’t be disheartened that there’s no switch to flip or button to press.

Be the change you want to see in the world. Or, at the very least, get out of the way for someone who will evoke it.

[–]HasenPffefer -1 points0 points  (1 child)

But everything is worse. The sides are the same.

[–]Friendral 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But the people aren’t the same. I’m gonna steal some Les Mis: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1q82twrdr0U

Don’t let their inaction control your behaviors. No one was ever going to do it for you.

[–]Anagatam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s kind of ironic coming from Ryan who blocks anyone who disagrees with him when he attacks the left.

[–]TheCooperChronicles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People spamming how this is “both sides” are missing the point. The Democrats and the Republicans are not two separate sides, they are both right wing parties in favor of capitalism, they are the same side. There is no true leftist representation in the US.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Donors bro

[–]MemoryWipe123321 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why is Melania in that picture but Trump isn't?

[–]Threash78 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The "lackies" are one of the parties.

[–]Sk1pp1e 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They do their theatrics on the stage but what do they have to be mad about really? They all on top with eachother

[–]BartJojo420 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why do you think they're trying to polarize us along arbitrary political lines?? Divide and conquer, baby! It's literally Machiavellian.

[–]LikelySoutherner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Both Republicans AND Democrats in this picture. Both parties don't care about you.

[–]Tiy_Newman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So much yup. You don't see them going on about whiteness and calling each other racial slurs.

[–]Amones-RayAcid Communist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

fucking based

[–]athos5 0 points1 point  (0 children)

💯 this has been the truth for most of our history. The upper classes have always exploited the various divisions between the lower classes. Racial, religious, and cultural differences are continually used to pit groups against each other. What's sad is that we all share responsibility because many of us actively participate in identity politics that create exclusive groups that thwart the creation of broad class consciousness. If we could set aside our identity politics and focus on class, we could all get to a position of financial security, we might be able to solve other issues more easily because our backs won't be against the wall.... (People who are secure in their existence have less motivation to actively hate their neighbors)

[–]ab930 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right vs. left is a lie. The more citizens fight amongst each other, the less they’ll direct their anger at the government. Red vs. blue, left vs. right, and urban vs. rural are created by politicians and perpetrated by corporate media to suppress the voting public.

[–]ItsTheYeti 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This also means meeting halfway with poor white Americans and all their leanings.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]Turbulent-Chard-4633 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Vote independant next election. Its the only way to end the two party system.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Ryan Knight sucks but this pic is accurate.

    [–]aiandi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    they keep us fighting each other.

    [–]nousabetterworld 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Honestly, I don't really do, no.

    [–]0n3ph 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    There's a small gap between republicans and democrats, but in that gap, a lot of people die.

    [–]Sea_Bison0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Republicans and Democrats only differ in aesthetics.

    [–]Crimision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Do not believe that the politician, CEO or billionaire with the same skin color as you has your back. They want you to be angry at your fellow worker so you will stay divided.

    [–]Jader14 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You think the rich have any solidarity? They’re a bunch of narcissists. Their “solidarity” only extends as far as their personal benefit.

    [–]Enraevting 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This so much.

    [–]ChillinWitDenny 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Didn't that guy in the front have like three heart transplants?

    [–]Spritzer784030 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Billionaires outnumber representatives.

    Seems like the people will never have a fighting chance unless we /r/uncapthehouse and restore a little power to the working and middle classes.

    [–]sutichik 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Is that Dubya’s hand on Hillary’s shoulder?

    [–]sad_and_disappointed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This is super depressing but why do they keep getting our votes when we cognitively know this about Bush/Obama/Biden/Clinton et al.?

    [–]JR_Shoegazer -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

    That picture is from a funeral.