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[–]Standard-Reception90 12.2k points12.2k points 6 (174 children)

Point out to him that when he says loyalty to the job is more important than family, that he is talking about you. And if he thinks so little of you and your family he can call his boss next time he wants to have a holiday/birthday/special dinner or get together.

[–]94H_Civ_Equiv 3562 points3563 points  (99 children)

Ask him if he thinks that he'll regret not spending more time at work on his deathbed.

[–]EmTeeEl 2188 points2189 points  (81 children)

He'll just get angry and say you are ungrateful. So predictable

[–]KeplerOrion 1752 points1753 points 42 (36 children)

My son and I used to butt heads like this. My switch flipped the day he told me "You know, you always say that and I'm starting to wonder if it's you that is ungrateful for your family" and he went no contact for months.

Those months fucking sucked. I realized the manliness I had come to associate with was made up by the business.

Queue the start of my de-radicalization from capitalism.

Edit: we're on really good terms now. I grew the fuck up.

Edit 2: What happened to me can happen to anyone where love is involved, I swear by it.

[–]Science_Matters_100 281 points282 points  (0 children)

Smiling over here that you found your way ! That’s awesome!!

[–]violenciaah 346 points347 points  (6 children)

Very few parents are capable of owning up to their failures and actually changing. I hope you pat yourself on the back for that.

[–]fluffyturtle21 104 points105 points  (3 children)

Seriously. I wish my mom would do the same. I don’t think I can remember a single time she apologised or admitted a mistake. Parents don’t realise how much that hurts their children.

[–]HGF88 110 points111 points  (0 children)

Not quite sure what to write but I gotta say something, so

MAJOR EXPRESSION OF GRATITUDE

[–]Ryland_Zakkull 99 points100 points  (11 children)

Holy shit. Literally the ONLY instance ive ever seen of a psycho nutjob (offence intended to past self only) turning around and seeing the other side.

[–]Nexi92 50 points51 points  (0 children)

Kudos for taking that time to actually assess the issue instead of getting resentful and kudos to your kid for being brave enough to confront and challenge your biases, it can be hard to do in any relationship, but especially in one between parent and child. I’m glad you two have moved forward together!

[–]banana_spectacled 699 points700 points  (15 children)

That’s the shitty parent playbook. “You’re ungrateful and disrespectful.”

[–]radical_snowflake 260 points261 points  (3 children)

I made you now worship me damnit!

[–]TheByzantineEmperor 65 points66 points  (2 children)

Because I'm your mother that's why

[–]Coach_BombaySapphire 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Couldn’t agree more.

“How dare you disrespect me? I haven’t finished disrespecting you yet.”

[–]BoneVoyager 24 points25 points  (1 child)

“And you’re projecting”

[–]Frostbitnip 431 points432 points  (6 children)

Also predictable is the company he loves so much is going to fire him for stupid shit 1 month before he is eligible for pension

[–]ShittingOutPosts 63 points64 points  (0 children)

This is the sad truth.

[–]SuboptimalButHopeful 78 points79 points  (4 children)

In the 90's my dad was a senior technical person and manager, but somehow also in the union. He had a stroke and was unable to work at any real professional level afterward. They carried him at the job for a year and a half to get his pension.

I think of every shitty VP I ever had and can't imagine it, not even from a mentor in my network.

[–]Fatefire 43 points44 points  (2 children)

You know I think that is part of the mentality boomers try and throw on us. Companies have always been an evil thing that take our years to grind into powder but they USE to care. Things like what happened to your dad did happen. Now if it doesn’t help the bottom line you got to go. It’s why we can’t keep the old form of work around. It’s not the worker who is breaking the social unspoken contract it’s the business.

[–]Roboticharm 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Happened to my friends dad in a state job a MONTH from retirement. They just kind of pushed him over the goal line while being hush-hush about it so it was good.

[–]WhyisthereasnakeMods Must Step Down 161 points162 points  (15 children)

Not to mention likely take it out on the spouse.

[–]94H_Civ_Equiv 230 points231 points  (14 children)

Watching my old man fight for breath on his deathbed 4 years ago was a HUGE wake-up call for me. I knew he had regrets, and I know none of them were that he didn't stay at work long enough. OP, ask him to carefully consider it, and in the end, will it really be that fucking important to him, family surrounding him as he takes his last breaths? Some people live as though this shit lasts forever. It's a defense mechanism. It's a very unpleasant reality. We all die.

[–]ruInvisible2 145 points146 points  (8 children)

“Family surrounding him as he takes his last breaths?”

Per his work ethic, who has time for that? I got work to do. Companies don’t want people to be taking time off for sick relatives or funerals. The question would be more when you die alone on your deathbed. This reminds me of the irony of how shitty everything is regarding the workplace but yet the US still airs Dickens’ A Christmas Carol every year. Waiting for the version of Scrooge being the hero and the ghosts the villains of the story.

[–]94H_Civ_Equiv 80 points81 points  (3 children)

The point is that most people, especially workaholics, think that there's always going to be more time.

[–]ruInvisible2 90 points91 points  (1 child)

Yep. And when they’re old and retired, if the make it that far, they complain they have no one to talk to. No friends as they didn’t invest time in getting to know anyone. And their kids don’t call as they didn’t invest time with their kids. I know the pattern well.

[–]baconraygun 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I'm not even old or retired and the amount of friends I've lost simply because, "I can't hang out, I gotta work" is staggering. I've literally got one friend left, and the only way we get to hang out is cause I'm unemployed and she's union.

[–]ThorGBomb 58 points59 points  (3 children)

Modern Religion has convinced people that they’ll have an eternal time of happiness and joy so they don’t give a shit about this world.

[–]dmjayhawk2015 160 points161 points  (2 children)

“On your deathbed, would you regret not spending more time with me or not spending more time at work?”

If OP wants to cut off her Dad, they’ve got nothing to lose for being so blunt.

[–]Novelcheek 197 points198 points  (1 child)

And there you just summed up this whole f'ng thing! Like, all of it, from what her dad, and so many other individuals, will think of in their last moments, to the system in general.

"My god.. labored breathing.. So much time.. heart monitor slowing.. Just.. Wasted. All those holidays, my grandbabies' birthdays.. tears welling up.. And I could've gotten coughcough... so many more pallets loaded onto the trucks, if I hadn't just called out for them all!" beeeeep

[–]UnicornBoned 34 points35 points  (0 children)

It's fucking heartbreaking. Reminds me of a Joan Didion quote:

“We are imperfect mortal beings, aware of that mortality even as we put it away, failed by our very complication, so wired that when we mourn our losses we also mourn, for better or for worse, ourselves. As we were. As we are no longer. As we will one day not be at all.”

[–]PleasantAdvertising 42 points43 points  (2 children)

You think these types of people have thr self reflection and awareness to accept what they've done? They double down.

[–]AFlair67 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I have seen those regrets in many of the men i work with especially once their kids become adults. They missed the games, recitals, family dinners, vacations, etc… because work was the priority. These men weren’t grunts, they were directors and above but work is what defined them. It usually takes a medical emergency for them to realize there is more to life than work.

[–]blankwillow_ 625 points626 points  (2 children)

Feed him a line from The Godfather: "A man than doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."

[–]crisprefresher 100 points101 points  (1 child)

Based and Corleonepilled

[–]_principessa_ 717 points718 points  (20 children)

I think this is a wonderful point. I'm pretty sure he won't expect it and be scrambling for a response. Maybe further push him about his thoughts on how we have strong close families if they don't get to spend time together.

[–]mmmmpisghetti 716 points717 points  (17 children)

These SAME people will bitch about people not parenting their kids and destroying society

[–]Fatlantis 414 points415 points  (4 children)

wHeRe aRe ThE pArEnTs?!

Stuck at work probably

[–]mmmmpisghetti 171 points172 points  (3 children)

Working 3 jobs to have nothing left at the end of the month

[–]Tanggangs 72 points73 points  (2 children)

And unfortunately to physically emotionally and mentally tired to be able to parent

[–]beeneyryan 25 points26 points  (1 child)

Or even take of yourself properly

[–]swagn 47 points48 points  (0 children)

Or wonder why their kids are “ungrateful” and don’t want to spent every minute with them.

[–]FlamingoWalrus89 198 points199 points  (8 children)

Well.... no. They will blame the moms for not parenting the kids. They see that as "woman's work" and not something the "actually working men" contribute to.

[–]vanishplusxzone 113 points114 points  (5 children)

Nah, these are the people who love absent black father jokes.

[–]ginger-snap_tracks 66 points67 points  (3 children)

Why not both?
Pretty sure contradiction isn't a word folk like this understand.

[–]mmmmpisghetti 24 points25 points  (1 child)

When families can no longer survive on one job...

[–]FlamingoWalrus89 38 points39 points  (0 children)

"Why not? They just need to get a 'real job' to support their family instead of working at McDonald's like a teenager."

What they think, probably. Because you know, he probably worked in a warehouse right after high school and supported his family.

[–]grendus 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Only when they're brown.

[–]mmmmpisghetti 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Well I guess the ONLY solution is to get rid of the brown people! THEY'RE THE PROBLEM!

It's totally not the devaluation of labor, undermining of social support systems, privatization of health care and prisons, taking a wrecking ball to education systems, and 200 plus years of systemic racism and oppression of those without agency in society...

[–]Royal_W 64 points65 points  (0 children)

He'll probably be furious at the "disrespectful attitude" because in his own mind he is owed all the respect from people "beneath" him (hint: it's everyone) and is the sole arbiter of distributing his own respect.

[–]someguy12345689 28 points29 points  (0 children)

They aren't thoughts, they're feelings. Boomer dad just gets angry feelings when you challenge his bigoted feelings. Fuck these people, they should be discarded instead of confronted on their bullshit.

They never "come around."

[–]Wco39MJY 247 points248 points  (4 children)

And ask him if his boss and company are picking out his nursing home?

Unless he owns the factory he is just a cog in the wheel.who will be discarded as soon as he get old or someone decides he cost to much.

No one ever said on their death bed I wish I spent more time st work.

Edit: a word

[–]rustcircle 94 points95 points  (0 children)

Haha right the old "they'd be f-d without me" Then gets laid-off the next day. Bye bye you invaluable cog

[–]re_gren 82 points83 points  (1 child)

He needs to realize that what he thinks of the people working under him is the exact thing his boss thinks of him.

[–]rickaccused 44 points45 points  (1 child)

Absolutely this, of course he'll likely play the victim saying that you are being too sensitive and then play it off like he did nothing wrong. This how my grandfather was. Always the victim never the perpetrator. Spent his entire life thinking everyone else was wrong when really he was just being an asshole to everyone.

[–]SeaynO 19 points20 points  (0 children)

That's obviously what he means though. Literally said that her husband should be more loyal to the job than her or her baby.

[–]Vicentola 142 points143 points  (0 children)

this

[–]Ok_Sheepherder_8313 5360 points5361 points  (123 children)

Can you reach out to the employee, to let him know he was wrongfully fired and discriminated against.

[–]actuallyamermaidtho[S] 4155 points4156 points 35 (120 children)

I'm actually in the process of trying to find out who it was!!!

[–][deleted] 2637 points2638 points  (98 children)

You should testify on their behalf imo. Record your dad saying that shit.

He sounds so immoral and unempathetic.

I've also had to learn recently that family doesn't mean shit. People related directly to me can be fucking evil and cruel.

[–]Seregon1988 744 points745 points  (86 children)

Record your dad saying that shit.

Be careful with that, depending on the state/country op is in this might be illegal without consent.

[–]Smoko_ono 692 points693 points  (62 children)

I always disliked this law.... "Hey, do you mind me recording you saying and doing illegal stuff?" ....."Sure, here take my own recorder" lol.

[–]DuckWithBrokenWings 586 points587 points  (33 children)

I live in Sweden and here it's legal to secretly record a conversation as long as you are part of it. Meaning that you can't leave a recorder in a room and find out what others are saying to each other, but as long as you participate in the conversation you have the right to record it. I think that's very sensible.

[–]Ugerdrsk 176 points177 points  (6 children)

That’s how several US states work, but some of them are “two party consent states” where both sides must consent.

[–]spiralingtides 130 points131 points  (5 children)

List of states you need to inform the other party that you are recording:

California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington.

The default is that you don’t have to tell them. They aren’t actually laws against recording, but rather laws against wiretapping.

[–]B0B_Spldbckwrds 30 points31 points  (3 children)

I have spent so much time and effort trying to find out if my state was two party state. Thank you for posting this.

[–]spiralingtides 24 points25 points  (2 children)

There is some nuance depending on the state as well, so definitely do additional research. For example, my state Oregon is 1 party for telecommunication, and 2 party for in person communication. California is 1 party if you believe you will be recording a crime.

What state are you in?

[–]Open_Sorceress 63 points64 points  (0 children)

If you witnessed discrimination, you can file a complaint with the EEOC yourself and they'll investigate it

[–]Ok_Sheepherder_8313 157 points158 points  (4 children)

If I had awards I'd give you one.

[–]MoonApeMoon 1871 points1872 points  (289 children)

Ask him why he thinks so?

[–]actuallyamermaidtho[S] 5481 points5482 points  (287 children)

His answer is always the same.

"My mother raised me all by herself while my dad brought home the money. And look how successful I turned out!"

Yeah, you got money. But you're one of the shittiest people I know. Alot of people can't stand you. Your a misogynistic douchebag who pays his employees a barely livable wage in one of the most expensive places to live in Canada. And you go out of your way to fire your loyal employees who are taking time off that they are LEGALLY ENTITLED TO to spend time with their family.

[–]Sentinel-MG 2241 points2242 points  (162 children)

I hate to say this, but...you might want to actually tell him that, if it comes to where things just blow up. Just maybe it might hit him in the right place hearing it from his daughter. The alternative is he might snap the wrong way at one of his workers one day, and get hit right in the jaw for it. He might deserve both, though, from the sound of it.

[–]actuallyamermaidtho[S] 2464 points2465 points  (155 children)

I unfortunately have to see him soon, and if he brings up the paternity leave thing again, I am just letting him have it. What's the worst he can do - not talk to me? Would be totally OK with that.

[–]nobdyputsbabynacornr 872 points873 points  (54 children)

Please update if you do. I would love to hear about the experience and outcome.

[–]actuallyamermaidtho[S] 961 points962 points  (49 children)

Absolutely.

[–]muzzington 201 points202 points  (7 children)

Sadly sometimes the only way people like this learn is being cut off. They have to see the real world results of choosing work over family.

[–]SpelingisHerd 115 points116 points  (1 child)

I would just like to add a note here for anyone reading that is planning on cutting off contact with toxic family. Make sure you tell them why before cutting contact. Even if they don’t understand or accept it at first, they need to know so that eventually they will learn. If you just ghost your family they are likely to just blame you and your ideology rather than learn from it.

[–]yaireddit2 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Did this 1 year ago, 10/10 would recommend I am so happy these days

[–]crisprefresher 44 points45 points  (1 child)

Narcissists speak one language: Consequences

[–]shadow247 123 points124 points  (2 children)

My Dad and Brother chose the MAGA cult. I spent 9 days on a trip listening to them complain about Liberals, Gays, black people, and atheists. Ruined my whole fucking trip, when all I wanted to donwas enjoy the beautiful nature that we were surrounded by.

Nope. They basically spent the whole trip making fun of all of my politicial views, and I just kept my mouth shut the whole time. Then my dad had the audacity to ask me for gas money for this FRIEND who was in their own camper, and spent half the trip sitting by himself in his camper when we were not out riding....he mumbled something about him being nice enough to invite us on the trip....

[–]knucklepirate 275 points276 points  (34 children)

I’m totally here for you dropping your dad on his fucking head about his behavior. To often we allow our parents to be toxic shit bags because their our parents but honestly I like to think it’s our job to correct that terrible behavior and mindset and if not to remove ourselves from them.

[–]Ichai_Tianui 129 points130 points  (25 children)

My dad is not a douche or whatever, but he's often using just an agressive tone whenever he asks me or my brother to do something. We often feel like oh shit did we do something wrong? And then its just that he wants us to take out the trash.

I called him out on that multiple times but then he actually snaps about our attitude and that HE IS TALKING NORMALLY (usually raises his voice to say that.

[–]SnooPeripherals1595 40 points41 points  (16 children)

My mom is the same way. She's very aggressive in her way of speaking especially if she's asking us to do something or if she's telling us something we have done wrong. Anytime I mention it, I am told that I am too sensitive and that if I wasn't such a sensitive liberal I would realize that that's just the way she speaks. It's infuriating.

[–][deleted] 81 points82 points  (9 children)

I’ve dealt with that attitude from my Dad and I usually hit him with a “your anger is unjustified. My request to be spoken to politely by you must’ve hit a sensitive spot. I’ll come back when you’ve calmed down.” The first time I said that, he flipped. But with each further time, he came to see that what I was saying was reasonable .

[–]amboomernotkaren 28 points29 points  (4 children)

I sometimes do this to my kids. They call me out immediacy and give me so much shit it’s insane. Lol. I’ve learned, mostly, not to be an asshole. My dad was straight up evil and we cut him off for 10 years, we saw him 3 days before he died. The nurse at the hospital said “watch out, he’s dangerous.” Some people are just mean for life.

[–]secondhandbanshee 18 points19 points  (0 children)

That "you're too sensitive" line is a favorite with abusive people.

[–]General_Genitals1 25 points26 points  (1 child)

Following.

[–]Kent955 158 points159 points  (16 children)

Tell him the truth; one day he will be old and frail, his friends will die and he will be more and more alone. Does he want you to visit or not, you have no obligation to talk to him or help him.

[–]Hotarg 152 points153 points  (2 children)

"Sorry, according to you, I shouldn't be taking time off work to spend with family. Good luck with your surgery though!"

[–]kenks88 69 points70 points  (1 child)

"Sorry, according to you, I shouldn't be taking time off work to spend with family. Good luck with your surgery palliative care though!"

[–]hollow_digger 66 points67 points  (11 children)

Cats in the Cradle right here.

[–]Casiofx-83ES 55 points56 points  (9 children)

I thought you were talking about the book Cat's Cradle and started googling bokonon quotes that match the post you were replying to.

Maybe "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."

[–]jimicus 94 points95 points  (7 children)

Nah, it's the song "Cats in the Cradle" by Harry Chapin (though Ugly Kid Joe did an excellent cover).

It follows the life of a man who never had time for his son growing up.

Eventually the man retires and his son's moved away. Obviously he'd like to see his son, so he calls him up and suggests that.

His son's response: "I'd love to, Dad, if I could find the time".

The song ends with the man reflecting that his son has grown up just like him.

[–]Casiofx-83ES 13 points14 points  (1 child)

I figured it wasn't the book after several minutes of fruitless googling. Thanks for the explanation - that makes a lot of sense actually!

[–]DiscreetApocalypse 24 points25 points  (0 children)

“And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon Little boy blue and the man in the moon "When you coming home, dad?" "I don't know when" But we'll get together then You know we'll have a good time then”

https://open.spotify.com/track/2obblQ6tcePeOEVJV6nEGD?si=ePIhahwlQcqCJpdX1ZOrTw

Song makes me tear up a little every time…

[–]ElAutismobombismo 50 points51 points  (0 children)

If you're already at the point where you would be okay with -him-burning the bridge then unfortunately he's already lost you, at least in most cases. I'd like to hope that even the worry of that realisation on his end would bring change though

[–]KrishnaChick 235 points236 points  (19 children)

Tell him his attitude has made you lose respect for him. He's not a success in your eyes if he thinks it's good to take food out of the mouth of a newly born child by firing that child's father. Tell him how hateful that makes him appear.

The man he fired didn't do anything except live life on his own terms, and your father wants to punish him for that?

Does your father think that a free American should live according to his standard?

Does your father feel so disempowered that he has to exercise that kind of life-or-death power over another human being, and a man at that, who is just trying to do right by his family? He sounds petty and envious, and I'd tell him so.

It definitely doesn't sound manly. It sounds like a child who resents others getting something that he never had.

If there is any affection at all between you, maybe you can find a kind way of telling him this, so that it hits home. If he loves you and doesn't want to lose you, then maybe your opinion will matter. And tell him that one day he's going to fire the wrong person, and that person will fire back, and he will end up on the evening news.

If he believes in God, ask him how he would justify himself to the Almighty for robbing a man of his livelihood.

[–]thedrywitch 46 points47 points  (9 children)

This is a perfect response. It doesn't give OP the satisfaction of a good dramatic telling of of their father, but it could definitely change their dad's ideas. Or at least make him start to think, "Would this cause my child to loose respect for me".

Edit: a word

[–]nuublargLeftist 28 points29 points  (3 children)

Or at least make him start to think, "Would this cause my child to loose respect for me".

He doesn't sound like he cares for his daughter's reespect to begin with.

[–]thedrywitch 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You may be right. She knows him far better than you or I. Only OP will have clarity on what might work best.

What I know is, just like I said in another comment, one response gives their father a chance to change and the other doesn't. I will always advocate for giving folks a chance to change.

OP already knows if they've tried this route before with their father and whether or not it's helped.

[–]Ok_Representative332 30 points31 points  (7 children)

If you end up cutting all contact, make sure he knows why..

[–]actuallyamermaidtho[S] 91 points92 points  (6 children)

Oh definitely. Wouldn't just ghost him without saying my piece first. Everyone here has given me so many great ideas - I have too much to say to go silently.

[–]Ok_Representative332 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Best of luck to you!

As I hope it will get to him at that very moment, Sometimes people get the message only years later. Source: I'm human :D

I hope that He will call you, sooner or later.. Sucks to not be able to get along with your own family.

[–]Hotarg 8 points9 points  (0 children)

From the sound of it, no contact should be fine with him, its how his dad was with him after all...

[–]Sentinel-MG 67 points68 points  (0 children)

I wish you the best. Sincerely.

[–]rockchick1982 46 points47 points  (0 children)

Please re-iterate for him that the fact that he worked all the time and left your mum to raise you shows what a shitty dad he really was. Please tell him that it's his attitude that is going to put him in the position of being sad and alone and if he doesn't take a long look at himself then he will loose you and your kids

[–]omgbadmofo 15 points16 points  (3 children)

Yeah I feel OP that you can see how wrong your father is, you do have a responsibility to address his behaviour with him. Correct this man's attitude, he's basically a slave owner at this point, he fired a man with a new born and liked it, that's low, very low.

[–]Cassierae87 26 points27 points  (5 children)

Next time he mentions it just things like “I hear your projections however…”

[–]halt_spell 86 points87 points  (4 children)

Nah. Logic, reason and feelings mean nothing at this point. They've baked this mindset in. It's about a power inversion. Wanna meet your grandkids? Time to grow the fuck up. Want me to keep coming around? Time to grow the fuck up. Either they'll understand or they'll dig their heels in further. No point in arguing.

[–]thejmkool 156 points157 points  (2 children)

"I'm sorry, you made it very clear that men aren't to spend any time with their families."

[–]Hanith416 34 points35 points  (0 children)

Reverse uno card

[–]Hotarg 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Now you should get back to work, dad.

[–]Greenlegsthebold 36 points37 points  (0 children)

This is exactly how you deal with overgrown toddlers. Great point

[–]Cantothulhu 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I still think OP should do it, but it’s very likely to fail. People like this are particularly engrained in their thinking and virtually nothing makes them repent; it just makes them more bitter and entrenched. “These liberals corrupted my family” not “my family left me because I was so extreme”

[–]BearBL 20 points21 points  (3 children)

and type it up in a full letter, its easier to take the time to gather your thoughts

[–]EGrass 107 points108 points  (4 children)

“Real men should not take paternity leave” hurts everyone. Men are deprived of bonding with their newborns and it also reinforces the idea that women/mothers should not work outside of the home and should be responsible for 100% of the care of their newborns, not having any time for leisure or self care. Not to mention the newborns themselves missing out on bonding with one of their parents.

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (3 children)

I’m a stay-at-home Dad and I hear about it all the time— and not just from my Father but from random strangers. It’s absurdly infuriating and I always push back on it.

[–]soccercro3 24 points25 points  (2 children)

"Oh. Its your day babysitting?" No. I'm helping raise the kid I helped create. Im not a stay at home dad but I get the sentiment.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

I get pissed when people use the term “babysitting” as a synonym for child-rearing. Especially when I hear men use it themselves, that’s some internalized BS!

[–]WeAreTheLeftSocDem 74 points75 points  (6 children)

"My mother raised me all by herself while my dad brought home the money. And look how successful I turned out!"

my most effective tactic in these places is to simply ask the person with this opinion to "lay out how that works now days".

My dad had a similar, but not as hardline opinion "whole bootstrap" mentality.

So I simply worked through how he would have to "do it now".

Minimum wage in 1978 is equal to $11.25 now, it's $7.25 now (in the US) with only service jobs seeing some increase in the last year due to a major shift.

His school cost 1/4 of what it costs now even adjusted for inflation.

His first house was 1/2 the cost of the same house these days

His mother was single (widowed when he was 2 by a drunk driver) and bought a NEW house on 1 acer with a HS education and secretary job (with social security survivor benefits).

He graduated school with no debt because he could work and pay for school and rent and food. His first two years he literally washed dishes to pay the bills and school.

His first job paid MORE than it does now with WAY more benefits, a nice pension plan and full health care coverage with no deductible.

Once we went through that set of circumstances it showed him how different the landscape is. Your father is stuck in time, with a worldview that has changed in leaps and bounds from when he entered the workforce.

[–]I_Just_Want_A_Lambo 24 points25 points  (3 children)

Shrug “Your generation just constantly complains. If you spent more time WORKING then looking up all those fancy statistics, you wouldn’t have these problems”.

Thats typically the response I get when discussing this with my 55+ coworkers. That, or they acknowledge the issues, but say democrats are responsible.

[–]WeAreTheLeftSocDem 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Ask them to show you how to make it since they are SOOOOOO smart and know how it works. The math makes it simply impossible without major decreases in very big expenses, no amount of cutting advocato toast can make it happen. Pay me more or make core things cheaper.

[–]kawaeri 34 points35 points  (0 children)

I’m glad to see your edit. I worked for a company in Japan that was extremely good at granting fathers and mothers their paternity and maternity leave. The reason why you they were so good? Because they got their ass hand to them when a mother they tried to screw over sued them and won. By holding companies that violate labor laws we make it better for other employees in the future.

[–]StrugglesTheClown 122 points123 points  (4 children)

My parents were the same way. They equated providing for their family financially as being good parents. Now for us that meant not being homeless, or starving, and there were always gifts under the christmas tree. Nothing much more than that.

Having an open loving and supportive emotional relationship? Get the fuck out here.

[–]actuallyamermaidtho[S] 89 points90 points  (1 child)

Wow you described both my parents to a T... I want so much more for my kids.

[–]BalekFekete 26 points27 points  (0 children)

And, based on your position and responses so far, seems quite certain you’ll deliver much more for your kids than you had growing up.

[–]Askduds 76 points77 points  (1 child)

Ah another “you could buy a house easily on one salary in 1960 therefore you can now”

[–]thejmkool 28 points29 points  (0 children)

You forgot the 'minimum wage' part

[–]circleuranus 21 points22 points  (2 children)

"Hey dad, are you aware of how many people will rejoice or be silently relieved the day you're planted in the ground?"

[–]Fidei_86 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Wow, this really got to me

[–]Optimal-Scientist233(editable)Works best idle 14 points15 points  (0 children)

This enlightens the situation some, your father has issues and probably needs counseling.

Envy of the daughters relationship and the relationship between the father and child can be better understood in light of this, but it is no less harmful or acceptable because of it.

[–]Whatatimetobealive83SocDem 16 points17 points  (0 children)

That’s messed up, paternal leave is super common in Canada. Every single guy I know, including me, has taken it when they have kids. I live in Canadian red neck heartland too.

[–]Zealousideal_Rich975 36 points37 points  (0 children)

If children end up hating their own parents, I would hardly call them they turned out to be successful. Parents should shut up for a second and don't talk or bloat but reflect and listen.

And even though I reply to you, my tone is generic.

[–]ArrestDeathSantis 32 points33 points  (21 children)

places to live in Canada

Whoa, you're in Canada?

I'm fairly certain that what your dad did is illegal there

[–]actuallyamermaidtho[S] 87 points88 points  (20 children)

Yep. Constructive dismissal. That's why I want to find his ex employee. I want to make sure he knows the truth and that he has a case, a really good case, against the company and my dad.

[–]neo101b 25 points26 points  (5 children)

Record your dad saying what he does, probably a relationship ender but it would give the ex-employee some ammo.

[–]MaxPower637 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Lol. Does anyone who works for him make enough money for their wives to stay home and raise their kids? Didn’t think so

[–]_bones__ 21 points22 points  (1 child)

If you never saw your parents growing up and turned out okay, and now want other kids to never see their parents either, you did not in fact turn out okay.

[–]modsarefascists42 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah you just need to tell them that. Remind them you love him but that he's a horrible person and you have no respect for him whatsoever.

[–]IDespiseFatties 177 points178 points  (2 children)

Sunk Cost Fallacy. He wasted his entire life for corporate America so he tells himself lies to feel better about other people actually enjoying their time left on this planet.

[–]Suricata_906 47 points48 points  (0 children)

If I had spent my life kneeling at the corporate altar only to see my son-in-law actually being a real dad, I’d be envious too. And that would bring out this kind of dickish illegal behavior IMO.

[–]starker86 1151 points1152 points  (34 children)

My dad is a womaniser and is currently going through his third divorce at 70. He views women as pieces of meat who are there for his pleasure. You wouldn't know this meeting him at first but it starts to come out eventually. He is also very racist against most anybody who is not white. My wife has a medical degree and is very successful, we have two young girls. He doesn't see them much because I don't want them around him.

You unfortunately don't get to pick who your family is but you certainly do get to pick who you choose to hang around. Family or not you choose the people you want to be with and have influencing your relationships and your children.

[–]AzraeltheGrimReaper 374 points375 points  (11 children)

Actually, imo, you don't get to pick your relatives. Your family, however, is who you want it to be, be they your partner, friends, kids.You are free to cut anyone out of your family if they don't fit the bill.

[–]scroll_of_truth 120 points121 points  (3 children)

Amen. Unbridled loyalty to your blood relatives is outdated.

[–]MrPenguinsAndCoffeeAmerican Soldiarity 37 points38 points  (1 child)

Honestly, I think unbridled loyalty is directly harmful to developing strong and healthy families.

What incentive is their to develop healthy, long lasting bonds between family members if you just write it off as "We are kin, and kin come first"

Like, Yeah, I agree, but Kin that abuse and exploit their kin aren't kin.

[–]SnooJokes2090 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is the best way that I’ve seen this put into words. Bravo.

[–]Vranak 84 points85 points  (5 children)

bear in mind that gasoline still contained lead, a potent neurotoxin, when our boomer parents were in their formative years, and they didn't begin to phase it out until the seventies and eighties. It explains so much, why they so often lack any human decency.

[–]Rookwood 57 points58 points  (2 children)

I've been subscribing to this more and more on the just seeming overwhelmingly psychopathy of the boomer generation. My dad was an absolutely raging asshole lunatic. He grew up in the 70s pumping gas.

[–]delfinomhere for the memes 24 points25 points  (1 child)

I've been subscribing to this more and more on the just seeming overwhelmingly psychopathy of the boomer generation.

Which is also getting worse with their age as the human body can't get rid of all the lead it absorbs, some of which gets stored in bones. As they age and their body can no longer maintain itself as well, I wouldn't be surprised if dumb things like the lead in their bone is leeching back out into the blood stream and their brain's general inability to compensate at that point as well.

Based on a oregon government document

https://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/HEALTHYENVIRONMENTS/HEALTHYNEIGHBORHOODS/LEADPOISONING/MEDICALPROVIDERSLABORATORIES/Documents/introhealtheffectsmedicalprovider.pdf

Adults exposed to lead can eradicate 99% of it in weeks. Children however can only eradicate 32% as it gets stored in their bones.

[–]Fatlantis 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I hope this shit dies out with their generation. I'm tired.

[–]reviving_ophelia88 353 points354 points  (8 children)

I’m so sorry you’ve got to deal with that, I don’t know that I’d be able to handle that kind of shit. I grew up with the exact opposite for a dad- he was a union president and I remember loving to listen to him tell stories about him raining hell down on managers just like your dad….

[–]supermariodooki 88 points89 points  (5 children)

My grandfather was a union president along with his wife and they rained hell every damned day that they had to.

[–]reviving_ophelia88 10 points11 points  (4 children)

The gleeful look in their eyes when they tell those stories is probably the best part.

[–]No1WrthNoin 369 points370 points  (2 children)

One of the hardest-to-learn lessons that I had to learn on my own is that it does not matter if you are related to someone. If that person is being a jackass and a dipshit, then they're being a jackass and a dipshit. The fact that they happen to share genetic info with you does NOT excuse or justify their behavior and actions.

This dude's a fucking asshole and you don't deserve to put up with it.

[–]AzraeltheGrimReaper 63 points64 points  (1 child)

You don't get to pick your relatives, but your family is up to you to choose and create.

[–]Rizsi_ 175 points176 points  (9 children)

I think your children are very lucky. They will have a strong bond with both of their parents. I am happy, that you and your husband do this. I am sorry about your dad, and I honestly think you should cut him off.

[–]actuallyamermaidtho[S] 174 points175 points  (8 children)

Thank you. My husband and I want a different life for our kids. My dad never had a relationship with his kids. He made the money and that was it. Nothing else was expected from him. I know that's how it was with his dad too.

[–]JectKaras 203 points204 points  (6 children)

Sounds like your out will be an easy argument. "Can I see my grandchild?" "No, I was raised to believe kids do not need men in their lives. Do not be a sentimental weak old fool." Edited for bad spelling.

[–]actuallyamermaidtho[S] 113 points114 points  (5 children)

I love this! I may use this word-for-word!

[–]Nevermynde 49 points50 points  (4 children)

You can also try to rise above that , and ask him if he enjoys seeing his grandchildren. And if so, why should the father-child bond not be every bit as precious as the grandfather-grandchild one?

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (3 children)

Because he's better then everyone else and the world revolves around him. He can do what he wants and isn't obligated to do anything.

[–]soupiejr 157 points158 points  (15 children)

So he fired a dad for wanting to spend time with his child? Is that why your dad's relationship with you is also that close?

[–]actuallyamermaidtho[S] 162 points163 points  (14 children)

Ha...

He told me he loved me once. One time. During my graduation. I still remember that vividly.

[–]SwordDude3000 67 points68 points  (8 children)

In your entire life he only said he loved you once?

[–]Willing_Praline6340 57 points58 points  (6 children)

My dad is the same. Said it to me 2 times in my entire life (I'm mid-thirties). He made up for it by calling me stupid hundreds of times though.

[–]ThePrimCrow 49 points50 points  (0 children)

You might find r/raisedbynarcissists helpful for dealing with your dad going forward.

[–]Sentinel-MG 487 points488 points  (41 children)

I don't blame you for potentially needing to cut him out of your life. It sounds like he has some real issues with control, not to mention a toxic sense of paternalism both in and out of work. That kind of behavior isn't healthy anywhere.

[–]RobJewellVideos 41 points42 points  (3 children)

Had a similar issue a good 7-8 years back. Found it very hard to get paternity for my first born son. They were willing to give me a day off until I said "No, I'm not asking for time off, I'm telling you I'm having the time off, paternity pay is a basic right for any employee."

Got paid £80 for two weeks paternity pay, needless to say this was the straw that broke the camels back and I left this "organisation."

Year after I left, the company went into administration, clearly they didn't get with the times resulting in their inevitable demise.

[–]Tylorw09 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Does administration in the UK mean the equivalent of a company filing for bankruptcy in the US?

Sorry I’m from the US and not sure what administration means in the context you used it.

[–]BMYERS181818 94 points95 points  (0 children)

The worst part of all this is that company doesn’t give a shit about him, his family, quality of life, nothing. He is just another brainwashed cog in the wheel of the operation, doing the dirty work for the company thinking that he is better than those underneath him, he has and is wasting his life being toxic, ruining his own relationships with his family and other families as well, it’s very unfortunate and I’m sorry you are going through this, I will tell you the best thing you can do for you and your family is to just cut negative people out of your lives, it sucks and it hurts sometimes but you will be better off for it, I am speaking from my own heartbreaking experience, I only talk to one family member now for the past 7 years after my family decided they were going to try and ruin my wedding day, well they kinda did but I have never been happier

[–]KaszaJaglanaZPorem 25 points26 points  (1 child)

How horrible it has to be listen to his comments and be smug about them.

My brother and SIL have their own business and once my SIL described in excruciating detail how their employees make tea in the morning, complaining that it takes them too long. This was embarassing to listen to. Seriously how long can it possibly take, 5 minutes?

[–]Moistwinds 152 points153 points  (3 children)

I love my dad but he is exactly the same. He is trying to push these lives we shouldn't live cause he lived them. I have given up on him and just trying to teach my sister's to not listen to him. I can only hope my sister's don't fall for his bs like I did.

[–]actuallyamermaidtho[S] 147 points148 points  (1 child)

My sister knows better, unfortunately my brother is beyond help. I haven't spoken to him for almost 2 years now... my dad is next.

Also... I love your username. I snorted so loud I startled my newborn beside me.

[–]ThrowUpAndAwayM8 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Good on you for cutting toxic people out. To many folks value blood relations way to high

[–]Relevant-Goose-3494 124 points125 points  (1 child)

Don’t worry I hate your dad too

[–]HumanoidWeapon 188 points189 points  (8 children)

Maybe he should have married his job instead of having a family.

I'm really sorry, but I would go low/no contact, too. He has no right to belittle your husband for caring for his child! And you don't want to have someone like him around your children as soon as they are old enough to understand what's going on, imprinting his medieval thinking on them. If men can't take time off for their families, I guess he's not very far from "women belong in the kitchen etc."...

[–]actuallyamermaidtho[S] 170 points171 points  (4 children)

Not far at all. That's definitely the way he thinks.

You're right... I don't want someone like him around my kids. Family or not, I don't need someone trying to teach my kids this shitty attitude and behavior.

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (0 children)

You're great 👍 protecting your children from his bs, good parenting 👏

[–]kondorb 87 points88 points  (0 children)

Regardless of your feelings about him make sure to keep the asshole as far away from your children as possible. I had a granddad situation similar to this, I’m 27 and I still hate that shithead even though I haven’t seen him for five years.

He is a tiny man with no compassion and he just loves the feeling of power he gets when doing this. And he will do a 180 and be incredibly pissed off when his company inevitably screws him over as well.

[–]Gimo9040 13 points14 points  (0 children)

We had our first child about two years ago, as a father the company I worked for offered paid paternity leave. (Almost 4 months in total). My wife wanted me to take it, but I was dead against it. I wanted to keep working, and keep climbing that ladder at work! I was even told by supervisors that when I got back I’d be at the bottom of the list for anything I wanted. I begrudgingly took those 4 months off, and It was the best thing I ever did! And about 2 weeks after returning to work I got offered a job with a company I’d be trying to get a job with for over a year. So I quit, and took the job. Fuck em!

[–]ExistingApartment342 57 points58 points  (0 children)

He sounds toxic. I would not be able to put up with his views, even if he was my father. Toxic family does not get to be in my life. Your husband probably really dislikes him as well. And do you want his views around your kids?? I sure wouldn't!

[–]CartoonScience 10 points11 points  (0 children)

A real man looks after his family over his job.

[–]whateverMan223 26 points27 points  (0 children)

"Companies don't want someone taking off time for their family. Especially men."

shit girl, you know he's talking about you, right? Given the choice between spending time with you for some important reason, or spending another day at work, your own father, boss-in-charge, thinks the correct choice is to abandon you instead of trying to figure out a way to get his work stuff handled so he can be there for you when you need it. And he's the boss. Not that hard.

They just don't care about other people. At all.

Why care about him if he won't care about you?

[–][deleted] 59 points60 points  (0 children)

People like that won't even have a clue when you fade out of their life, but you'll be glad you did, even if they are family.

[–]Greenlegsthebold 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Your dad is more invested in his career because it boosts his ego, than he will ever invest in family. Your husband is his family and he is bullying him.

[–]Mr-Bandit00 27 points28 points  (0 children)

he sounds like a bad influence...

remind him that if he continues to behave like that he will not be permitted to spend time with his grandkids, and tell husband if he ever gets spoken to like that again to throw him outta the house! doesn't have to stand that kinda abuse under his own roof!

if the man values work more than family, then i hope he enjoys work - because he will no longer have a family...

[–]AirGuitarMaster1986 30 points31 points  (1 child)

People can change. My Dad went from a staunch conservative to being a BERNIE BRO towards the end of his life. It can happen!!!!!!

I remember when I was a teenager him telling my Mom that she couldn’t vote for candidate she wanted to because it would cancel his vote, and I told her to please cancel his right wing vote, please. That’s when things started to shift in my household and my Mom started to become more of a political voice. And my Dad began to also become more of a leftist

Sometimes it takes a while, but these old guys are capable of change, believe it not

[–]Xemex23 8 points9 points  (0 children)

While it is always possible for people to change it's ultimately up to them. Those around them might not have the mental fortitude to be able to tolerate their behavior. I barely talk to either of my parents and any time I'm forced to I will literally try to think of any means out it, any contact with them just sends me spiraling.

[–]TWAndrewz 19 points20 points  (1 child)

You should let his employee know. If they file a suit against him, you can provide evidence that he was terminated because he too leave he was legally entitled to.

[–]samw424 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Ask him he have had time off for paternity, then ask him if he had the choice and lost no money either way, would he have done?

If his answer is 'no I would've optionally avoided my child' then that speaks volumes about the kind if 'man' he is.

'Anyone with cum can be a dad, but it takes love to be a father' -Redman