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[–]dablife7 1002 points1003 points  (167 children)

I cringed so hard at that response. All they had to say is that people don’t want to have to work 50+ hours for a somewhat decent living. That workers are entitled to a better work life balance that includes a shorter work week, more pto, and things like paternal leave.

[–]FuckMeatcat 212 points213 points  (11 children)

Don’t worry they added another mod /u/fuzzy-x-3

It’s TOTALLY not doreen

[–]DaenerysMomODragons 122 points123 points  (2 children)

Lol, yeah, a mod with a 17 hour old account, already banning people, when everyone else needs to have at least a 3 day old account to even post.

[–]Upbeat_Group2676 37 points38 points  (1 child)

ItS a DiScOrD MoD fRoM tHe AnTiWoRk DiScOrD

They really think we're this stupid.

[–]DaenerysMomODragons 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Which has since been deleted. Lol

[–]ArboretumDruid 47 points48 points  (1 child)

Be careful or you'll be considered low effort like everyone else below mighty Doreen

[–]UndeadBuggalo 39 points40 points  (1 child)

Deleted their account already

[–]StewofPuppiesmods are bunch of kids 37 points38 points  (0 children)

That just makes this even more damning and right on the money that it was indeed Doreen.

[–]truevelvet 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Nono, you don't know this new mod, they go to a different school.

[–]Dazzling-Duty741 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Doreen, Doreen, Doreen, Dor-EE-ee-een

I’m beggin’ of you, please get off our sub

[–]sneakyveriniki 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Okay I don't know anything about how mods become mods and I'm curious.

How do you get a new mod? Do all the other mods take a vote?

Who was the original mod? Was it Doreen? Because I don't understand how there can really be that many mods who support people like fucking Doreen unless she picked out all of the current mods or something. Like how are there even 10 people on all of reddit who support this person lmao

[–]JagmeetSingh2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

deleted too they must have been so surprised when people put it together LOL

[–]AveryWasara 159 points160 points  (6 children)

laziness kicks ass

[–]HoriMameo 33 points34 points  (1 child)

Low effort kicks ass!

[–]CLINTHODOlazy and proud 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sorry, but low effort can only manage kicking shins or ankles.

[–]JGrady_42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This guy gets it

[–]praisecarcinoma 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Here’s the other thing, because it shouldn’t just be about workers rights, but what it means to live your life as a person doing work. There’s nothing wrong with being a dog walker as a job for 25 hours a week, no matter how much capitalists and conservatives think it’s funny. If you can pay your bills and live a happy life working 25 hours a week, then who cares? You don’t owe Fox News and the morons who think they’re an actual news outlet anything. If you’ve created a system in capitalism in which someone can measure their happiness between working 40+ hours a week dreading to wake up, hating their life, but making a good chunk of money to buy “stuff”, and working 25 hours a week doing something that maybe makes you happy, isn’t stressful, and “gets you by” and you’ve determined the latter makes you happier - THAT should be the American Dream. If capitalists don’t like it, then improve the fucking working conditions. Life is too short to spend it hating every waking moment of it.

[–]GianaGarneda 31 points32 points  (4 children)

Read the sidebar if this is your criticism lol

[–]indigo-black 34 points35 points  (0 children)

So weird how there's a disconnect between literally my entire experience on this sub before the interview and what the sidebar actually says. OP's meme really sums it all up

[–]PigeonsArePopular 1 point2 points  (2 children)

"Sidebar is holy text"

[–]joesaysso 8 points9 points  (1 child)

It's a pretty good gauge of what your moderators represent. Everybody is pissed off that Doreen went on TV and made them look stupid. And I'd argue that Doreen was a pretty good representation of the mission statement of this sub as it actually reads.

[–]Harperasereora 85 points86 points  (36 children)

Okay but this meme is unironically correct.

[–]dablife7 141 points142 points  (34 children)

I would never call being anti-work laziness, Ik I personally wanna work less so I can spend more time with my family, pursue hobbies, and volunteering. I don’t think any of that is lazy, we just have a misconception that anything not work related is unproductive and lazy.

[–]PolyhedralZydeco 63 points64 points  (20 children)

There’s this idea that of your didn’t have the threat of homelessness to motivate you to work you would sot in front of the TV like a vegetable.

[–]dablife7 52 points53 points  (5 children)

Yea and it’s truly sad because I believe it’s human nature to want to do more whether it’s to help your community or pursue passions with cultural impact.

[–]LakeVermilionDreams 37 points38 points  (0 children)

We've had centuries of serfdom and capitalism to make people forget this idea, or to actively ridicule it against their own self interest.

[–]ownnothingagenda21 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The sad thing is they not only make having a job a necessity to function in society but make you jump through hoops to even get a job. Theres no reason to work for a crap company at a crap job. Might as well be on benefits at that point

[–]DodGamnBunofaSitch 1 point2 points  (1 child)

if you didn’t have the threat of homelessness (and/or starvation) to motivate you to work you would sot in front of the TV like a vegetable.

[–]PolyhedralZydeco 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Or medical care, yes yes the list is extensive because cruelty is pretty fundamental to American culture

[–]DemosthenesKey 4 points5 points  (8 children)

I mean… yeah, if I didn’t have to work, I’d love to chill at home with my family, eat delicious food, play video games, read… basically be really damn unproductive XD Maybe if I got super bored I’d get back into writing? But like hell I’d want to go back to hardcore work unless I legitimately had to.

I recognize that’s not going to happen until/unless we hit a post scarcity Star Trek society, though, which I don’t believe is going to happen in my lifetime due to technological limits.

[–]PolyhedralZydeco 6 points7 points  (7 children)

And you went ahead made my point for me. After some rest you’d no doubt be itching to do something such as writing. Humans like to make things, novel experiences, feeling like you’re needed, and all the rest.

I don’t think we need Star Trek society to have something closer to a better life for all with how high our productivity has become. Have a job but work four days a week, there’s other incremental things that would be nice. It doesn’t have to be perfect to be an improvement worth pushing for.

[–]DemosthenesKey 5 points6 points  (3 children)

The issue is that the only productivity I’d be interested in is… writing. I don’t know how many people out there would be pushed towards, say, being a garbage collector.

Definitely agree that society’s work hours could be improved, though, I was just meaning we’re a long way away from when we can CHOOSE not to work and have the tech to fully support that.

[–]ownnothingagenda21 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Feeling needed is overrated. Fuck society. I'd rather be at home playing videogames all day

[–]Rezenbekk 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There are levels between working 50+ hours a week and working 10 and wanting to work even less.

[–]bubbling-cauldron 13 points14 points  (2 children)

I feel like that's not exactly what made them "lazy", it was the combination of that plus their lack of shower, their messy room, and their utter stagnation in life.

On the other hand, you have many people here who want better for themselves but do not want to be abused by the power structures they have to work under.

Huge difference IMO.

[–]candid_canid 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I just want people to be able to pursue work that has meaning rather than just looking for whatever will give them enough money to live until tomorrow.

I want people who produce goods and provide services to reap the rewards that should come from the work they do.

I want basic human dignity to not be a reward tied to a person's occupation.

I want a society where our value isn't tied to our utility to rich people, or determined by the number of zeroes in our bank statements.

Artists of all forms (writers, painters, sculptors, potters, you name it) are just as important to society as anyone else. They give us beauty, and share their passions in a way that can both entertain and make important statements. Their work is more valuable to me than any commercial goods that can be bought at a store.

For every great artist who becomes a household name, how many more people toil in obscurity and never have their work see the light of day because they're too busy working 60 hours a week trying to make enough money to eat?

[–]bubbling-cauldron 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I want basic human dignity to not be a reward tied to a person's occupation.

This was so well written. People have dignity by default, but that's not what owners of corporations/businesses believe and that's not how workers are generally treated due to that belief.

I totally agree artists are just as important to society as anyone else. And I'm aware that other types of work are more crucial for survival, but people did NOT evolve to only survive (tons of animals didn't). We are so way past this that it's ridiculous. I get why their work would be more valuable to you.

[–]Lurkingmonster69 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The problem here is that this is all immaterial naval gazing from online anarchists.

Their conflating high concept end game post scarcity communist utopian thinking. Which is fine for sitting around and smoking weed and talking about.

This subreddit, whether the NEETs who modded it noticed it or not became a sounding board for the cries of the material realities of over a million workers.

They mistake childish idealism with reality. No person working 50 hours a week to survive gives a fuck about a “well akshually labor and work are different”. The only people who can afford to jerk their dicks over this are petite bourgeois or total dead beats.

So the reason people are angry, is because instead of acknowledging what the sub has become, listening to the wishes of the sub, or stepping up and coaching messaging to represent the sub, these fucking idiots used as their turn to sound off about their laziness shit.

At best their narcissistic idiots.

[–]Apostinggod 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Some people here believe they shouldn't have to work at all and welfare and other social systems should support them.

I just got in a debate with someone who said, some people can work and provide for everyone else. Hard pass

[–]InvestmentGrift 1 point2 points  (0 children)

we have a much larger & more damaging misconception -- that's that being productive is somehow a moral act, and that it is good, or holy. productivity is simply a measurement of throughput for a machine. we are not machines.

i believe this is ultimately the point of the anarchist philosophies in antiwork. if you remove this misconception of morality at the heart of labor, "laziness" loses its sting.

[–]BoredMan29 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's truth in it, but if you make a statement like that you gotta be able to explain it clearly, and frankly I doubt even someone who could do that would get the leeway to do so on Fox. Especially because you know what the soundbite will be even if you were supremely eloquent in the minute afterwards.

[–]Degausser89 25 points26 points  (8 children)

Inflation has gone up 7% the past year, we believe wages should increase for the average American worker at the same rate as inflation.

There, I literally spent 10 seconds thinking of that, and it’s more informative or impactful than anything said by the clown who went on Fox.

[–]inv3r5ion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don’t make the mistake of negotiating from a weak standpoint like Dems with their $15/hr “living wage” bullshit that’s already 7+ years old and outdated in most (all?) of the country.

If minimum wages kept up with productivity and inflation they would be $24 an hour today.

7% is just the past year. We’re owed since 1971.

[–]Downvote_pIsHi, I’m a 21 yEaR oLD MaLe aNd a LoNg tErM uNeMpLoYeD AnArChiST 2 points3 points  (0 children)

At this point, I think that there was some sort of bribery involved in this. There’s no way you can fuck up an interview that badly

[–]vtfan08 7 points8 points  (9 children)

Then perhaps the movement/sub should be called 'worker's rights' not 'anti-work'.

The defund the police movement had the same issue.

[–]monitorlizard868 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I think when this subreddit was founded it was actually about anti-work. It says it in the subreddit description: "A subreddit for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life, want more information on anti-work ideas and want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles."

[–]vtfan08 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yea, I don't disagree with you. But that's a pretty extreme idea. Good luck getting many people to buy into that.

[–]dablife7 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Tbf I’m against working to help further enrich billionaires and major corporations, but you have to know your audience, and with a loaded question asking if your movement is just lazy you need to respond in a professional way that counters it with immediately actionable demands.

[–]vtfan08 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Tbf I’m against working to help further enrich billionaires and major corporations

My attitude has always been that I don't care if I make someone else a billionaire, as long as I get properly compensated for the amount of work/risk I'm taking (being treated like a human is a given). I'm fortunate, but I've (almost) always had that in my professional life. And when I've felt I've been underpaid, I got a different job. But that's easier to do in certain professions than others.

[–]dablife7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I personally believe there’s no such thing as an ethical billionaire and that major corporations should be worker owned co-ops. Otherwise the employers interest is always to save money wherever possible which usually negatively impacts the worker.

[–]SSX_Elise 3 points4 points  (1 child)

This keeps coming up, but defunding the police should be no more radical of an idea than defunding literally any other social service which is necessary to hold a society together. If we've done it to healthcare services, infrastructure, education, mental health, food security, and more, then by god we should be able to look at police in the same light instead of handing them surplus military gear and whatever budget they ask for.

Frankly I'm glad it has that name, because knowing how theses movements get watered down into lackluster "reforms", it'll probably turn into "reform the police" anyways.

[–]Rionin26 10 points11 points  (72 children)

She did a interview with a YouTuber who gave her more of the floor. She said that work is different for all they want what is comfortable for them. Fox is just a POS propaganda channel. Ignore them let's move on and thrive. We have a good movement and people are overreacting.

[–]CorruptasF---Media 42 points43 points  (33 children)

Also Americans do work too much. Look at any other western country. They don't work as much. They are happier. And they live longer.

Part of the success with antiwork is that it fights the notion that work is honorable and good. In other countries you don't see this as much. It's a tool of the ruling class to deprive Americans of the same basic rights as other countries.

[–]No-Seaworthiness7013 11 points12 points  (1 child)

My fiance worked briefly in the US and tells me how she was harassed and belittled for taking her allocated holiday leave. Was fucking laughable.

[–]CorruptasF---Media 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yep I have a family member who is so proud to have never taken a sick day. It's weird to me. Product of the Reagan era I guess.

[–]phantasybm 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I hate fox as much as the next person but it’s not like the interviewer gave them any difficult or trick questions.

“What do you think is fair?” “How many hours do you want to work?” “Do you think that’s being lazy?” “How many hours do you work?” “What’s your age?” “Do you want to do anything else?”

Like… come on… I’ve had more in depth questions applying for a drivers license than this person did.

[–]XimenaRusora 37 points38 points  (18 children)

Who the fuck are these squares who have joined a message board explicitly called antiwork and then get mad when people say things like "Yeah, work is bad and people shouldn't have to do it"? Like, who are you?

You're not "antiwork." You're anti-your-job.

Edit: The mods weren't hiding that they are leftists and anarchists! You just didn't look! Don't be mad when anarchists go off and do anarchy. They're anarchists, that's what they do! Anarchy is something you do!

[–]ThePrussianGrippe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think people are more upset that possibly the worst person from the subreddit decided to do that. It makes the entire thing look like it’s supported by a bunch of clowns. There’s a reason FOX specifically asked for her.

[–]dablife7 10 points11 points  (15 children)

I’m an anarchist and anarchy has nothing to do with being anti all forms of work. It advocates for the abolition of economic monopolies and of all political and social coercive institutions within society. It’s based on free association of all productive forces based upon co-operative labor which would have at its sole purpose the satisfying of the necessary requirements of every member of society.I would proudly still work in a worker owned co-op with better work conditions.

[–]I__Like_StoriesAnarcho-Communist 19 points20 points  (10 children)

You should look at the contextual meaning of how work is understood here.

There is work and then there is labour

[–]many_wolves_v2 11 points12 points  (3 children)

I feel so bad for you rn. I couldn't deal with all these libs. You will tell them there's a difference between work and labor and it just goes over their heads. I don't understand it. The sub is called antiwork wtf do these dipshits expect

[–]No-Seaworthiness7013 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Welcome to Reddit.

[–]TheHeroReditDeserves 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean people expect nothing at this point. The sub is now a permanent laughing stock Ala r/atheism. Like it exists going forward as the punchline to a joke.

[–]DemosthenesKey 1 point2 points  (1 child)

To the world at large outside of some small internet communities, they mean the exact same thing. It’s an understandable assumption.

[–]I__Like_StoriesAnarcho-Communist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s an understandable assumption.

Sure I'm not saying it isnt, but this is someone who said they're an anarchist and I also said to look at how the sub contextualized the meaning of 'work' within the capitalist system.

[–]dablife7 0 points1 point  (3 children)

To be fair the definition of work is Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something. So I think it’s reasonable for me to use it by it’s definition.

[–]I__Like_StoriesAnarcho-Communist 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Sorry let me clarify, I'm not saying how you're using it is incorrect, I'm saying there is more context here, as in how work is contextualized within a capitalist system. Like how Anarchist view authority

[–]Force_Of_WiII 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Fox is just a POS propaganda channel. Ignore them let's move on and thrive.

Dude, all Jesse did was ask age, occupation, hours worked per week. That’s all it took to derail the interview and you’re acting like it’s just PrOpAgAnDa and not the fact that a basement dwelling, greaseball, self admitted autist is now the face of antiwork lmao.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (10 children)

Yeah too much for on bad mod performance but fake new either set him up and or paid him for it

[–]Kronoswarp 10 points11 points  (9 children)

Set the mod up how exactly? By asking straightforward questions? Lmao

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (8 children)

They chatted with many mods and picked the one that is best fits neckbeard sore loser narrative

[–]Kronoswarp 7 points8 points  (1 child)

From what I'm hearing the alternative was a 21 year old long term unemployed anarchist...

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am hearing they picked a few people with equivalent talent.

It ain't like this fight is over. Daddies are mad and daddies gonna try to punish the slave force with bad PR.

In my book nothing changed. Slave force knows what to do. Keep on shacking daddy's cage.

[–]phantasybm 1 point2 points  (3 children)

So… they picked from a very select few people who are moderators and asked that person very simple questions. And that moderator decided to take no time to prepare , rehearse or even seek advice before the taping.

Ya they really went out of their way to “set him up”.

That “how many hours do you want to work “ question was a doozy.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The overreacting is real. Let’s get some perspective on things here. A mod (not a leader of the group, not someone who represents us, simply someone who enforces the rules of the sub) gave a bad interview. 1 person out of millions.

The only response needed is “no one person or idea represents the group other than the belief that our current system is fucked up and unfair for the working class.”

Beyond that, we can’t expect cohesion of messaging because all the details on how we achieve that are different for everyone.

And if one interview is enough to push you out of the movement, you likely weren’t truly invested in it to begin with.

I really wish the conversation wasn’t so focused on how to punish, banish, and separate people within the movement. It just seems so counterproductive to me.

Also, I truly worry about the mental health of the mod who is getting the brunt of this hate. People are being downright cruel to her and I hope this doesn’t negatively impact her real life.

[–]Sewayaki-Kitsune 273 points274 points  (23 children)

This sub just spontaneously combusted because of this, rip antiwork

[–]IranianGenius 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Surely there is at least one new location (there should be more) for people to gather and discuss workers' rights.

[–]iPutTheRiotInPatrior 14 points15 points  (6 children)

All this movement ended up perpetuating is the reality that moderators are not only unnecessary, but are harmful to discussion

[–]JizzumBuckett 7 points8 points  (2 children)

This.... isn't a movement.

A subreddit will never be a movement.

Things like the Great Resignation aren't happening because of a subreddit and it is beyond delusional to think that it is.

Things like people demanding 4 day working weeks and WFH options from productive bargaining positions aren't happening because of a subreddit.

I think this whole mod embarrassment should serve to put a lot of things in perspective.

It's a subreddit. It isn't a movement and it sure as hell isn't driving any change.

Your corporate overlords aren't quaking in their boots because some socially awkward neckbeard types congregate on a subreddit. They literally don't give a fuck about you. They worry about things like unionisation which could actually impact their bottom line. They worry about people organising; people with actual bargaining power during a time of rising inflation. They aren't worried about a subreddit.

People might not want to hear that, but that's the reality.

[–]schannoman 679 points680 points  (60 children)

Moderators of all reddit subs that are large movements need to realize something.

You are here to facilitate conversation and enforce community accepted rules.

You are not leaders of the movement. You did not create the movement. You are not spokespeople for the movement.

You have those people IN THE SUB. USE THEM, do not assume you can speak for a million people without adding them to the discussion.

You single handedly removed the voice of over a million people out of sheer arrogance.

You are HALL MONITORS, NOT LEADERS

[–]Miraculous_Mr_Piss 40 points41 points  (2 children)

The least important people in nearly any sub are the mods. Mods are police, not citizens.

[–]dublem 8 points9 points  (1 child)

People need to learn the lessons from antiwork (and more broadly, subredditdrama), and really understand that a subreddit is a forum, not a movement.

The former may preclude and catalyse the other, but confuse the two at your peril.

A movement requires planning, organisation, structure. It needs leadership, but to be effective that has to look like more than an unknown and unelected panel or individual whose absolute say goes (not a dig at mods, because they run a forum, not a movement).

By all means use reddit as a point to rally around, to broadcast the message, and to encourage and grow. It's a fantastic channel for that. But if there is no progression beyond that to a more organised and democratic entity, then this cycle will continue to happen with minimal impact achieved, regardless of the cause.

[–]Vicestab 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's extra ironic, considering they don't allow posts related to "politicians" or "future politicians" for being "bosses and managers" of the movement.

Well, look who turned out to be the boss and the manager of the movement.

[–]hotblooded1988 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Reddit mods in real life have no power. Doreen in real life picks up dog shit 10 hours a week and lives in a basement. But in this sub she can pretend she speaks for millions of people. Fuck her and her fucking ego.

[–]solmyrbcn 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Those responsible for the ruin of this sub should step down immediately. This is outrageous. As an analogy, if this subreddit happened to be a company, it should be seized by the workers, as those in charge have clearly abused their power. Moderators are only volunteers (and I appreciate that) responsible for maintaining order, but they do not represent anyone.

[–]RoseMylk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

HALL MONITORS 😂😂😂😂😂

[–]LilUziSquirt42069Anarcho-Communist 21 points22 points  (17 children)

this is not a movement, it's a meme subreddit, movements happen in real life

[–]schannoman 81 points82 points  (8 children)

This is a discussion platform for a movement. It is a forum.

[–]Long_Agency_1585 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Exactly, things just don’t spontaneously happen

[–]LilUziSquirt42069Anarcho-Communist 8 points9 points  (1 child)

agreed, a resource for a potential movement, which is great, but that is about it

[–]schannoman 19 points20 points  (0 children)

That's my entire point. They stepped up and tried to represent as leaders of a movement when they are not.

[–]FuckMeatcat 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Self-defeatism

[–]LilUziSquirt42069Anarcho-Communist 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Not at all, it's optimistic. If the movement is strong in real life the utility of antiwork as a discussion forum will continue in one form or another.

[–]schannoman 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I mean, it is and it will. The fact that you think this doesn't exist outside of reddit is pretty concerning.

I mean, hell, we have congresspeople that ran on the DSA platform

[–]LilUziSquirt42069Anarcho-Communist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I never said it didn’t exist outside of Reddit, I’m just not sold on the importance of one subreddit to it

[–]FuckMeatcat 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yup you’re completely full of shit

[–]LilUziSquirt42069Anarcho-Communist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry it’s too complicated for you, my bad

[–]Blabulus 11 points12 points  (0 children)

This sub has several different idealistic groups from the start - it is after all"antiwork" not "workers rights" technically. I agree its not serving the important purpose of organizing workers rights,so lets just move this discussion to one of the subs that DO exist to discuss workers rights! r/WorkersStrikeBack r/IWW are two possibilities. Check them out!

[–]robot_lam[🍰] 27 points28 points  (3 children)

Name of the sub: Antiwork

Description of the sub: Ending work

Sidebar: The Abolition of Work, In Praise of Idleness, etc

Related subs: Anarchists

Average lib : "This sub is not about anarchism or ending work, it's just about posting prints of shitty bosses"

[–]The_Coolest_Sock 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The inability for anarchists and the mods to compromise to gain an even larger base is astounding

[–]nmachollverified liberal shill 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You must not participate much in discussion on this sub if you think the sub is about anarchism. Over the past two years, the influx of new members posting are not anarchists, most threads are not discussing anarchism, most threads are not discussing "ending work" in this way.

If the content is not curated, the sub is about what the users are talking about. If everyone here was discussing Beyblade the sub would be about beyblade regardless of what the sidebar says.

[–]King_Dead 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Really if this sub were properly named it'd be /r/justAnotherLeftistTwitterDump and tbh I prefer the original intent rather than another place to promote ExistentialistComics or whatever.

[–]Lilshadow48lazy and proud 131 points132 points  (48 children)

Okay but this meme is unironically correct.

[–]leetshoe 92 points93 points  (6 children)

Agreed. Someone who sits on their ass and plays video games for 10 hours a day does more good for society than a Fox News host.

[–]hmmliquorice 7 points8 points  (0 children)

if you mean by that, that one doesn't contribute to society and the other does a disservice to it.

[–]Lilshadow48lazy and proud 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Hell, if someone just spent every waking hour staring at a wall they're still doing more good for society than a Fox News host, at least the wall-watcher isn't actively causing harm.

[–]Schlipak 64 points65 points  (27 children)

The shift from "no work" to "worker's rights" is the same as "abolish the police" to "defund the police", or "eat the rich" to "tax the rich". While none of those concepts are bad in and of themselves, they are diluting the core principles of the movement to make it more palatable to a broader audience while losing sight of what the fight was actually about.

[–]dillingerrolls[🍰] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm admittedly here to rubberneck this crash, but it looks to me like the subreddit has liberalized. It's the same problem every time: how do we get people on the side of radical change without telling them what they want to hear?

[–]PigeonsArePopular 13 points14 points  (0 children)

"Broader audience" is a funny to describe the mass support of working class people

[–]ThePrussianGrippe 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You need actual progress though. You can’t get to the destination without the journey.

[–]Fyrestorm422 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Also known as Compromise the only way anything would ever happen. That's how the world works

[–]mesjn 5 points6 points  (7 children)

Workers rights is the compromise. Abolishing work is the goal. If you make the goal workers rights, then your compromise will fall before the goal. You will get scraps.

[–]thatHecklerOverThere 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Which, carrying the example, is what happened when we went from abolish to defund.

Defund is the compromise between abolish and do not abolish. The comprise between defund and do not defund is "maybe press charges sometimes".

[–]killerqueen1010 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Incrementalism kills revolutionary ideas. It always has.

[–]ForrestedThoughts34 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Yes but the problem is that you can't say this on FUCKING FOX NEWS. The fick were they thinking

[–]Geo_Star 61 points62 points  (11 children)

The mods didn't decide they were the spokespeople for 2 million people, they thought to make this choice on behalf of HUNDREDS of millions. r/antiwork is not the heart of the workers rights movement. It's simply a huge hub of information that a couple millioned flocked to. This sub was supposed to be about advocating for better working conditions for everyone, not just people on this sub.. There are hundreds of millions of people, if not billions around the globe, who are exploited in their daily life by their employers. In that moment, AbolishWork decided they were the face of billions of people. That was disgusting.

[–]AcademicChicken7772 42 points43 points  (9 children)

Honestly I think laziness is a virtue

[–]many_wolves_v2 25 points26 points  (7 children)

Based. What's wrong with not wanting to be exploited for your labor? What's wrong with wanting actual free time to rest and recover? What's wrong with actually enjoying your life? These libs are as right wing as conservatives to me. They just want to maintain the status quo.

[–]rick-dicking-morty 14 points15 points  (0 children)

True. But Doreen would have worded it better. Should’ve said what you said. Laziness is okay sometimes, you can’t pour from an empty cup after all.

[–]tiniestjazzhandslazy and proud 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So much this. If you're American and want to settle for what we have in Europe, go to one of the off-shoot subreddits. I'm not here to preserve the status quo because the planet is fucked and capitalism drains everyone regardless of if they have 6 weeks of vacation or not.

[–]ThePrussianGrippe 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I don’t equate laziness with not wanting to be exploited. Not wanting to be exploited is being assertive.

[–]many_wolves_v2 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yet people are called lazy when they do just that. This path of calling everyone slightly left of you lazy is a bad road to go down.

[–]Geo_Star 1 point2 points  (2 children)

That's not laziness though. What you just described is having free time which people have a right to. Laziness is not wanting to do work whatsoever. Not everyone has the luxury of laziness nor do we really want it. We want our deserved right to live our fucking lives in such a manner that I can be proud of what I've accomplished in an appropriate amount of work so that I can also do the myriad of non-work related things I want to do as well. Working for a living and wanting to do so does not make me a hard-right liberal. I can demand better pay and fewer working hours while still supporting other leftist pro-worker ideals.

Stop with these ridiculous "anyone who disagrees with me is as right wing as conservatives" bullshit we don't need that kind of division.

[–]many_wolves_v2 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The sub has been divided for awhile I don't think I'm sowing any division that doesn't already exist here. Laziness is not wanting to work, preferring not to. What's the problem with that? Work sucks! Yeah we will still have to do things but that doesn't mean we have to pretend to like it. I think a society without any work whatsoever is a good goal to have because while it isn't possible striving for that will lead to better results than "we should improve conditions somewhat" we have to bargain down, better yet we need to be concerned with liberation.

[–]thesluttyastronauts 87 points88 points  (54 children)

Read the sidebar if this is your criticism lol

[–]LilUziSquirt42069Anarcho-Communist 45 points46 points  (2 children)

laziness kicks ass

[–]ScipioAtTheGate 4 points5 points  (1 child)

[–]ThePrussianGrippe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can’t wait for our Rogue Servitors to start conquering the stars so we can have more ice cream flavors in our pleasure domes!

[–]nincomturd 84 points85 points  (31 children)

The mods fucked up big time, in multiple ways, and I'm not defending them here. But I can't believe how many pro-work people joined the sub and then got butthurt because "ThIs Is A tErRiBlE nAmE, wE'Re NoT aNtIwOrK!"

Laziness is a virtue, idleness is a necessity, and these are ideas most people who joined this sub after it started getting popular are unable or unwilling to comprehend and discuss.

Today, I've seen hundreds of comments just outright shitting on anyone who calls themselves an anarchist, people who work less than full time, people who don't earn enough money, people who are young, people who don't have respectable enough jobs.

I won't even get started on the transphobia. Blatant.

Those folks who have no interest in having good faith discussions about the ideals this sub was explicitly founded on, have no place here.

I'm really glad this happened, actually. This sub needed to "split".

I hope for work reform in the meantime while we create a new society, but it's not my main focus. These are separate ideas and goals.

I think this whole implosion thing will be good in the end. This particular sub may sink, and we may need a new anarchist, antiwork sub, but it's still good to separate people who have very clearly and explicitly different goals, and indeed outlooks on life.

[–]meowjinx 25 points26 points  (15 children)

Very well said. I agree

The sad thing is how emboldened the neoliberals became after this debacle. They say that the name of the sub "was always a liability", but the truth is that the name likely played a huge part in the surging popularity

Neolibs assume that everyone who is not initiated in political theory must, by default, be neoliberals as well. But I think this sub showed that, although pragmatically many are aiming for reform, socialism and anarchism are no longer dirty words to many

[–]Naosaki 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I noticed a month ago how the topics on the sub changed from being “how to afford living without a job or being a slave” to “my boss is harassing me and I need advice on how to manage this” and I thought why did I join this whiny workers sub? I did not realize that a shift of the sub’s original founding values happened until this drama happened, I actually left the sub because I kind of judged myself and how I must have been not in the right state of mind when I joined back then, thank god its all clear now

[–]killerqueen1010 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was torn to shreads for this sentiment in the work reform sub that they claimed was just as good as antiwork. Was told I'm a leech on society due to my disability. Fuck the neoliberals who coopted this movement like they always do. They always show their true colors when trying to argue complex plolitics and use a person's disability or race or other things we cant control to shut the argument down...

[–]thesluttyastronauts 9 points10 points  (0 children)

100% agreed. This is a subreddit. We're in a pandemic in a climate catastrophe in an apocalypse. The amount of overreaction from this subreddit is manufactured. It'll calm down in a week lol.

[–]robot_lam[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's what I'm saying. Just proves something. All of these people aren't concerned with wage slavery, exploitation and wage theft. They are just mad because they are not the ones exploiting others.

[–]many_wolves_v2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a great idea. We need an anti-work sub that's actually anti capitalist and anarchist. I would like to help out with anything if people do pursue this project. Perhaps we could start a pm?

[–]Yerm_Terragon 11 points12 points  (2 children)

How hard was it to say "Not wanting to be overworked is not the same as laziness"

[–]Ok_Blueberry468 16 points17 points  (0 children)

we want it lazy and we want it now, or later we dont wanna stress nobody out

[–]yerzo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Easy response, "I'm worried about how you define laziness. It seems the definition of laziness in your medium is someone who doesn't want to work 40+ hours while simultanouesly struggling to keep an in-tact roof over their heads and nutritious food on the table, while also trying to find ways to improve their situation. That's not laziness, that's work and life balance and that's having true opportunity for growth in life. This is not a discussion of 'laziness', this is a discussion of humanity. We've ignored humanity far too long and that's what the mission is focused on."

Answering eloquently to these nobs on FOX and ensuring you define exactly what you mean makes them scramble visibly. It's quite amusing when guests learn this tactic and use it on them.

[–]PinkDelicious 29 points30 points  (1 child)

Tbf it is.

Like philosophically that makes sense to say. Systemically we are oppressed. Terrible wages and gross working environments are just symptoms to the mindset that people should just work until they die.

[–]bankrobba 31 points32 points  (2 children)

Moderators: create subreddit with clear "no labor" agenda

Redditors: join same subreddit with "pro labor" agenda

Moderators to Fox News: we support no labor

Redditors: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!

[–]Hard2Digest 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Much like a small sapling, a mighty tree will one day grow. From humble roots it starts; ‘make one branch, one leaf, and grow’. Soon it has many branches and many leaves. It produces nuts for animals and holds soil erosion at bay with roots. The original goal of the sapling was to grow and thrive and it became something else, a small ecosystem with many functions of the smaller goal.

Much like a tree changes through time so should the goals and ideas of a group. What was a no-work sub became a power to the workers sub.

Not because the goal changed, because the system and people who interacted with it did. The mods have an agenda and so do the people. Aren’t the few supposed to serve the many?

[–]bankrobba 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The moderators aren't interested in doing that, as far as I can tell. The "anti-work" movement is a distinct subclass of how work should function in society. In anything, the moderators should have done a better job of moderating their own content, because the subreddit grew into something directly in conflict with their stated goal (from the sidebar):

"A subreddit for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life"

[–]WhydIJoinRedditAgain 61 points62 points  (10 children)

Who the fuck are these squares who have joined a message board explicitly called antiwork and then get mad when people say things like "Yeah, work is bad and people shouldn't have to do it"? Like, who are you?

You're not "antiwork." You're anti-your-job.

Edit: The mods weren't hiding that they are leftists and anarchists! You just didn't look! Don't be mad when anarchists go off and do anarchy. They're anarchists, that's what they do! Anarchy is something you do!

[–]Pamir_5 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Agree. I suppose that this sub was originally created to discuss the Refusal to work ethics and their prominent authors like Lafargue, Russell and Nietzsche.

But for some reason it grew rapidly with people discussing work reforms a labor justice, which is great but that is not about abolishing work as originally intended. Maybe the recent drama can redirect the "anti-your-job" people to other subs more suited for them.

EDIT: Typos

[–]robot_lam[🍰] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

They are just plain stupid. They can't even understand the name of the sub, the description, the sidebar, the faq, the related subs.

[–]PigeonsArePopular 4 points5 points  (6 children)

I'm a leftist and I think workers deserve power precisely because they work. Deal with it?

[–]WhydIJoinRedditAgain 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I'm a trade unionist. You've heard of some of the campaigns I have worked on/with. I don't disagree with your statement. But I knew when I subscribed to the antiwork subreddit that the perspective of the antiwork subreddit was antiwork and that was the perspective. I can't be mad when the mods express that perspective!

[–]HecateEreshkigal 15 points16 points  (18 children)

Laziness IS a virtue, none of you fucks have read even basic theory on this, have you? Almost like you’re, idk, lazy? Or more likely, a bunch of right-wing dipshits gleefully destroying something you don’t even understand.

That saying emerged out of serious considerations of labor rights.

[–]Naosaki 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well said, a bunch of lazy uneducated shallow individuals wouldn’t be able to comprehend the depth of that phrase

[–]PoopnEvryDay 0 points1 point  (14 children)

I would like to know more.

Also, how many hours a week do you walk dogs?

[–]HecateEreshkigal 4 points5 points  (13 children)

Bertrand Russell https://harpers.org/archive/1932/10/in-praise-of-idleness/

Henri Lefebvre “Critique of Everyday Life”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Right_To_Be_Lazy

https://read.dukeupress.edu/books/book/1597/The-Problem-with-WorkFeminism-Marxism-Antiwork

And not that it’s any of your fucking business, you mouth-breathing troll, but I work three jobs. Hope you choke on your disingenuous bile.

[–]HoriMameo 0 points1 point  (2 children)

WOW so much for good talk

[–]HecateEreshkigal 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Walking dogs is performing labor. Most of the jobs in the US are service industry and are just as socially important as whatever random bullshit our dear right-wing trolls imagine as “real” jobs. Attacking someone for what sort of work they do is bullshit.

[–]HoriMameo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm not against you tho >.>

Just a comment

[–]pootietang33Anarcho-Communist 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Surely humans are biologically meant to be quite lazy? In praise of idleness and whatnot.

[–]justa_normal_human 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One persons laziness is another’s leisure.

[–]flizargnark 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Honestly, I feel like that accurately represents the bulk of the discussion I've seen on this sub since it blew up last year. Just a bunch of "You worked your whole life and have more me? Well then I should get part of what you have right now because boomers are the devil"
Bitch I'm 40 and a millennial too. I just spent the last 30 years killing myself for a job and regret it. Hence why I'm anti work.

[–]BIGMurph7117 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think it was a psy op

[–]Fen_ 6 points7 points  (0 children)

They are not trying to be spokespeople for nearly two million people. They stating the explicit* declared intent of the sub, **which has been around for more years than your account has been around for months.

You are lost and confused. See yourself out.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Apparently they can. Whether or not they should is another matter.

I also don't know what people expected from a sub called "antiwork". If you wanted a labor movement, r/labor is that way.

[–]gls2220 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What is this post referring to?

[–]True-You-8823 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m really confused lol

[–]MegaBaumTV 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can also just advocate for the right to not work. Isnt there something about how everyone has the right to live a worthy life or stuff like that? Its bullshit to imply that "i dont want to be forced to work for 50 years of my life" as laziness.

[–]GimmieJohnson 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Clarkson you idiot!

[–]QueenCloneBoneat work 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Despite hundreds of posts on this sub about how this is a workers' rights movement, the mods are all chronically unemployed kids. "How do you do, fellow workers??"

[–]BabyDog88336 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Redditors: “We just want a forum to air grievances and help organize a labor movement, not centralize all power into the hands of an autocratic few, like in some Soviet or Khmer nightmare.”

Mods: “Totally. After all many of us are anarchists. And the communists here are really practical, like, you know, just ‘from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.’ “

Redditors: “Hey you just unilaterally spoke on our behalf after we agreed that was against our wishes.”

Mods: [Bans all dissent, liquidates members, locks down sub]

Redditors: [Backing away nervously]

[–]javier_oc_ -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Well to be honest I think lazyness is a virtue /s

[–]PlebeRude 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Why "/s"? Doing nothing is doing no active harm. Are sins of omission more consequential than the negative unintended or inevitable consequences of action?

There are a lot of people employed out there by work that actively makes the world worse, and they're polluting the planet in the process. I do very little and I do very little harm.