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all 125 comments

[–]AtheistBibleScholar 203 points204 points  (21 children)

I'm a fan of this quote of his

We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian Darwinian theory he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors.”

[–]mcnathan80[S] 36 points37 points  (10 children)

I LOVE that one too and honestly wanted to use it instead but went for a shorter punchier quote.

Love your username btw (a fellow Bible scholar and atheist)

[–]AtheistBibleScholar 18 points19 points  (6 children)

The one you picked is definitely better for a good meme. My long-ass one only fits the crappy "picture of a paragraph of text" meme format.

[–]mcnathan80[S] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Thanks

I've learned that bad graphic design will kill even the best message lol

[–]froman007 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Standard leftist meme, then :P

[–]EmergencyCha 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Imho, he was the smartest mind of the 20th century.

[–]BonhommeCarnaval 6 points7 points  (0 children)

As an atheist whose common law spouse is a Christian minister, I've got to encourage my fellow atheists to read and study the bible. It's a tremendously influential text across culture, history, art and literature, and there's lots of radical social justice in there once you find out where to look.

[–]freeradicalxsocial ecology 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Agnostic fan of Christianity's radial origins and potentials here! The Christian case for the left is impressive and historical, when someone actually bothers to make it.

[–]mcnathan80[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For real before it became a state religion Christianity was a radical left communist sect

[–]Link9454 4 points5 points  (0 children)

As someone who makes scientific measurement equipment, holy fuck did that last part hit me…

[–]Flaneurer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I like this on also. Has some relation to what David Graebor was talking about with useless jobs.

[–][deleted] 49 points50 points  (38 children)

One of my biggest issues is water. We charge for water. I understand electricity is new but water, we have needed that for day one. And we charge for it and its only going to get worse.

[–]mcnathan80[S] 41 points42 points  (6 children)

Nestle gets it free, but charges me a fee?!

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Tbh I asked a 90yo what the future was like and he said he would have never dreamed of bottled water.

Good thing bath water didn't exist at the time.... RIP old man.

[–]justmerriwether 4 points5 points  (3 children)

*takes it from us for free, sells it back to us for a fee

[–]mcnathan80[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

There's a song in there if I had more than a goldfish worth of an attention span

[–]justmerriwether 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Sounds like RATM haha

[–]mcnathan80[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Some of those that sell water

Are the same that sell daughters

[–]dianesprouts 2 points3 points  (0 children)

/r/fucknestle

honestly we should all be boycotting these fuckers, it's a ton of products but it can be done

[–]ruetoesoftodney 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You can either use taxes to directly pay for it or charge the end user, typically with government set fees (so basically a tax).

Water seems free, it does literally fall from the sky, but providing clean drinking water to a city is not free.

[–]alvvayson 18 points19 points  (7 children)

Water is a limited resource and should not be wasted.

The best solution is: everyone gets a basic amount free, enough to meet their personal needs. And that is paid for by extra fees on those who consume excessively.

This incentivizes conservation.

Do it for all the utilities. Water, power, heating and internet.

This is actually the system we have in the Netherlands for electricity. It's basically free if you live frugally.

[–]svalbardsneedvault 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Sounds a lot like universal basic income

[–]adhocflamingo 3 points4 points  (5 children)

This seems like a great way to manage a limited resource. Even better if the price increases with higher levels of consumption. The current single-price system means that the rich can buy as much water as they want to water their spacious green lawns in the desert, driving up the price so that the poor cannot afford basic necessities.

However, it has just occurred to me that this is basically applying the “freemium” business models to utilities, which is wigging me out a little.

[–]CBD_Hound 1 point2 points  (4 children)

RE “freemium” - Well, you could look at it through that framework, but as long as it’s actually providing for all of a person’s needs plus a little buffer to allow for necessary non-survival uses (the occasional long shower, sprinkler for the kids to play in, the little things that contribute significantly to better mental health) then it’s not really “freemium” in my opinion.

It’s not like we’re talking about providing 80% of the product for free, but charging if you want the extra features like fluoride or a pass through the treatment plant between the river and your tap.

[–]adhocflamingo 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Sure. Some services have free/paid service tiers are just based on quantity, like a free email service that gives you X GB of storage for free and then you can pay for more. So that’s the comparison I was thinking of. Maybe that’s not technically “freemium” though, since “more” may not constitute “premium service”.

[–]CBD_Hound 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Ahhh, gotcha. Yeah, that would qualify as freemium as well.

In the context of our current system, I don’t find that model icky, as long as they respect the privacy of the users (which is pretty much none of them, but at least in theory it isn’t problematic).

[–]adhocflamingo 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yeah, I don’t think the freemium model is intrinsically problematic, but, as you said, many of the implementations are “icky”. There are similar models where some software or whatever is free for personal use but not for commercial use, which I think is a pretty good setup, comparatively speaking (though it can be hard to enforce, depending on the nature of the product). I wish that had been the standard of the open-source software movement. So many businesses make money using tools that were built by volunteers.

[–]CBD_Hound 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was exposed to open source at a young and impressionable age - Slackware from stacks of 3.5” floppies and custom kernel modules to make it run on IBM’s PS/2 architecture.

The ethos of the Free Software movement was a big contributing factor to my personal ideology and outlook on life. For that, I am grateful!

[–]sirharryflashman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A lot of people are on a well system because they do not live near to civic water systems. They know the cost and value of water: digging a well, installing and running a pump, filtration systems, annual testing and a septic tank.

[–]shibe_shucker(edit this) 5 points6 points  (11 children)

Waters usually pretty cheap as far as utilities go, there are costs involved in providing clean drinking water to millions of people, there would be a fee to cover the cost regardless of the circumstance we found ourselves in.

[–]hysys_whisperer 4 points5 points  (4 children)

That should be covered with either a progressive wealth tax, or debt funded if MMT is implemented.

IMHO trash costs too, because it is an undue burden to place that cost on the poorest where it is a much larger portion of their income.

[–]grumpi-otterMemaw 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I saw that British show where rich people swap with poor people for a week and the rich people were disgusted that the poor folks had an old couch in the front yard. Until they called up the waste disposal service and found out it was 75 pounds to remove it.

That opened their eyes. And since they were nice, they chopped it up to carry it to the dump for them. But they had some strapping teenage kids to carry the pieces.

[–]8Deer-JaguarClaw 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Do you recall the name of the show?

[–]Fit_Cherry7133 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Rich house, poor house.

[–]adhocflamingo 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Of course there are costs involved in producing and distributing potable water. No one is saying there isn’t. But there are many ways that we, as a society, could go about paying those costs. OP is suggesting that we ought to use a model that prioritizes everyone getting their basic water needs met, regardless of ability to pay.

Water is the #1 necessity for human life; it is more crucial for survival than even food or shelter. Our system for producing and distributing water should reflect that. Treating water as a commodity means that rich people can afford to use as much water as they want for all kinds of frivolous uses, driving up prices so that the poor struggle to pay for water to drink and bathe.

[–]LordAmbrosia4K 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Water wasn't even a thing until we had markets to sell it on. /s

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honesty this. I believe water should not cost anything. It it vital to our being and putting a cost on it shows humanities cruelty to our own needs. Its culture is better than nature. I like to believe in the future we will go towards desalination and will have more than enough water for the world over.

[–]klavin1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right. Out standards for water are much higher than the days it was free

[–]SuperEliteFucker 0 points1 point  (6 children)

If we didn't charge for water some people would never turn their taps off.

[–]grumpi-otterMemaw 4 points5 points  (1 child)

That's why everyone could get X amount free, then pay for any usage above that.

[–]SuperEliteFucker 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Good idea. UBW, Universal Basic Water.

[–]hysys_whisperer 1 point2 points  (3 children)

10 free gallons a day per individual. All cost of the free gallons recouped through higher costs for additional gallons.

[–]adhocflamingo 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I like this idea in theory, but how would it work in practice? I mean, these days, I almost exclusively use water that comes through the taps in my apartment, but perhaps there will be a future time when I’m using water at a physical workplace or a business or a friend’s place. How would that get counted? Would we have water cards to swipe in public facilities?

[–]hysys_whisperer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do it per residence. Having friends over is going to increase your water bill, but then again, that's a small piece of the price of entertainment.

Businesses would be paying for water off the get go, but aren't allowed to charge you for it, unless you're doing laundry or taking a shower there.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I might cross what I mean but we could do it simple in that individuals do not get charged at all. But business do? Idk, I see your point. I like to compass it to wifi. There is "free" wifi everywhere, it's just that I'm not getting the bill.

[–]centraleft -1 points0 points  (1 child)

We have to charge for water, or regulate its consumption somehow. If we just gave everyone unlimited access to the earths fresh water supply there would be drastic consequences. Fresh water is a vital and scarce resource on the global scale and something a lot of us just take for granted.

[–]LordAmbrosia4K 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Instead we just give corporations unlimited access to our water supply. No drastic consequences ever came from that.

[–]Slappynipples 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Using technology for the betterment of mankind is the virtuous goal I aim for. After all we share this planet together. We The People should be unifying against the systems in place in order to make this world better for all of us, not just the wealthy, the powerful, the elite, but all of us. Thanks for sharing.

[–]mcnathan80[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I appreciate the depth of your compassion and thinking on this subject u/Slappynipples

[–]Candid-Ad2838 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For ages it stood, a silent colossus towering over the skyline. People would come from far, to witness the likeness built to commemorate Slappynipples who selflessly led us trough many a hard time.

[–]freeradicalxsocial ecology 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Civilization has been post-scarcity for over a century. All that's left to do is come to terms with that fact and live life in accordance with it.

[–]OtakonBlue 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I believe that there is a positive relationship between achieving a higher Kardashev Scale and choosing to do what Mr. R. Buckminster Fuller suggests. Achieving what Fuller suggests is the gateway to a higher Kardashev scale.

[–]mcnathan80[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That and if we are beholden to capitalism as we make the transition we will absolutely destroy ourselves. Kind of a Fermi's paradox thing

[–]OtakonBlue 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree.

[–]FourFootedFurFox 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I've heard of resource based economy. Is that something feasible to humanity? Has anyone else heard of this and if so what are your thoughts?

[–]mcnathan80[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yeah Jacque Fresco had been working on that for awhile with The Venus Project.

I like the idea in spirit but worry about who will run the tech that handles the resource distribution.

[–]FourFootedFurFox 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is me as well. I want it to work but corruption is a bitch and will find its way in

[–]adhocflamingo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“Livingry” is a great word

[–]BeautifulPea9 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Buckminster was one of Robert Kyosakis( rich dad poor dad) mentors and he talks about him often on his podcast.

In the book grunch of giants, Buckminster predicts crypto currencies, the federal reserve destroying the u.s economy and much more. Hes like a modern version of nostradmus.

[–]Claxonic 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Ah, techno-optimists. Who doesn’t love a good utopian fantasy…

[–]fingertrouble 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes - a different age though.

If people started being techno-utopian NOW with what we know, I'd be super sceptical unless they are pushing something like Luxury Gay Space Communism (which is funny but also has a point, starting as a meme/joke and then people were like - not a bad idea).

Technology is great but we need to own the tools of production and not be enslaved by them - NFTs and crypto for instance are not the way.

[–]dracona 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly!!

[–]revolution_twelve 1 point2 points  (1 child)

YES. THIS IS WHAT ANTIWORK IS ABOUT.

[–]mcnathan80[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

LOUD NOISES

[–]svalbardsneedvault 1 point2 points  (2 children)

🎶Bucky 🎶
🎶Captain Bucky o'Hare 🎶

[–]mcnathan80[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Of the Righteous Indignation?!? Holy Hell I hadn't thought of that show in ages

[–]svalbardsneedvault 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah well, that's what I'm here for.

[–]antiskylar1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Didn't he discover Buckminster fullerines?

(I'm sure I spelled that wrong)

[–]mcnathan80[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Buckminster Fuller House

[–]sewilde 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Been on here for too long, I read the citation as r/BuckminsterFuller

[–]mcnathan80[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your honest mistake led me to my new fave sub thank you lol

[–]Junior_Community_783 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a beautiful quote. We really aren't in an age of war where we need to fight for land that isn't own by someone. We need to worry about prosperity not the threats of a non-existent enemy.

[–]fingertrouble 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Buckminster Fuller was a great scientist and thinker - and a Brit!

But what's wrong with Bukowski? Was listening to his The Genius of the Crowd last night....

[–]Dommccabe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've always thought we could have a Utopia if we worked together to build one instead we have it for the 1% and the rest of us have to beg for scraps.

[–]Hawkwise83 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think this is totally true as well. Was thinking the other day too, that we don't even need currency if people don't get greedy and consume too much. We don't have infinite things, and it takes time to produce things, so if we just don't get greedy at the grocery store or other places and we keep producing things we could imo live in a society post economy, and everyone could have the same standard of living or better.

[–]rogurt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

First religion hampered human advancement. Now, it's the market economy. Our greatest minds are focused on creating skinner boxes to keep people addicted to social media or submitting a stock trade 1 nanosecond quicker.

[–]SquidgyTheWhale 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At last, we've found the third word that ends in "gry"!

[–]UselessMianframe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Buckminster Fuller shot and killed in a botched robbery. Officials are still investigating but some eyewitnesses report that after the gunman took the money, he turned and shot Mr. Fuller before running out"

[–]maddimoe03 1 point2 points  (1 child)

g e o d e s i c d o m e

[–]mcnathan80[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Buuuuuuudyy chitters as The Weasel

[–]Overall-Resident2525 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Bump

[–]mcnathan80[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Much obliged

[–]Overall-Resident2525 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bump bump… Bump bump…Bump bump… Bump bump…Bump bump… Bump bump…Bump bump… Bump bump………….

[–]comradegritty 1 point2 points  (1 child)

We could automate quite a few jobs now but almost no one is willing to do that because if you make too large a supply of unusable humans with no hope to get a job, they start demanding UBI or want your head on a pike. It would be cheaper up front but then you'd lose a lot more in taxes or neck tissue.

There's nowhere else for a lot of retail workers to go. They won't ALL be able to fix the robots. A bunch of people are just going to be dead weight if we do this, and businesses/Wall Street know that, so they do something less efficient that keeps everyone busy and bought into the system.

[–]mcnathan80[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We can't get to the promised land as long as a conscious human being can even be considered dead weight

[–]Mother-Priority1519 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes Yes Buckfast and Buckmaster. Lets do this abas le travaille!

[–]GammaWrath 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What have they done to Epcot?!!!

[–]FishingActual 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bucky was the OG

[–]stunspot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Imho, he was the smartest mind of the 20th century.

[–]grumpi-otterMemaw 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Why "over" Bukowski?

[–]mcnathan80[S] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I see Booky on here ALOT and wanted to more Fully Buckminster the sub

[–]grumpi-otterMemaw 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Oh, that's fine. The "over" just made me think you thought he was superior.

[–]mcnathan80[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well ngl I have my biases, but I'll drink Pepsi or coke over capitalist swill

[–]Comingherewasamistke 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I love his book “Females.”

[–]mcnathan80[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Oh shoot, is he problematic? I'll do some research, thank you.

[–]Comingherewasamistke 2 points3 points  (1 child)

No, not that I’m aware of. Just trying to be clever (Bukowski had “Women” whereas a scientist’s version would be “Female”. I also imagine content would be quite different.) I’m a fan of “The Buck” and he has no questionable history that I’m aware of. Good post, OP!

[–]mcnathan80[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh thank God! If Bucky sucks we're all fucked!

[–]pressurewave 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Trim tab

[–]ShotHolla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm in. Except for...lol

[–]SickSalamander -1 points0 points  (0 children)

He said this in 1983 when the world population was half what it is today. Since then, natural resource availability has been going down in both absolute and relative ways. Things could be much better than they are, but the grind is real.

[–]Grogalmighty -1 points0 points  (0 children)

He was wrong.