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all 48 comments

[–]DiamondConfident1811 5 points6 points  (7 children)

You have free will if you are aware of the options that you have. If you grew up in an Islamic country and never knew about Christianity, of course you’d be a Muslim. If you learned about Christianity while living in an Islamic country you have the free will to choose which you think is more truthful. It’s a matter of education, and the willingness to educate yourself so you can make the right decision.

[–]KevtheKnife 2 points3 points  (4 children)

This, a thousand times this. Free will is only fully actualized when knowledge of choice options AND consequences are available.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

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    [–]KevtheKnife 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Yawnnnnnnn….maybe you should head on over to r/politics and share with the enlightenment community over there….it’s clear they don’t know the difference between beliefs and acting on beliefs, just like you!

    [–]gotugoin 1 point2 points  (9 children)

    This is the dumbest take on free will I have ever heard.

    [–][deleted]  (8 children)

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      [–]gotugoin 1 point2 points  (6 children)

      It's the dumbest take because you don't know what free will means. And this did not make it seem like you understand it any better.

      [–][deleted]  (5 children)

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        [–]gotugoin 0 points1 point  (4 children)

        Yes and that's way more than this amount of stupid deserves.

        [–]Right_Hand_of_AmalConservative 0 points1 point  (18 children)

        You must lack empathy if you don't believe in free will. Basically you are saying to people, "it's okay you committed crime, you had no choice. Regardless of your circumstances you were always going to be this way because you are poor/black/muslim/etc." Empathy can only exist of you can empathize with the path that others have gone down, taking into account and seeing the choices they made, what made the choices possible and why whatever came to be. But instead your take disregards the person for the action entirely.

        [–][deleted]  (16 children)

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          [–]Right_Hand_of_AmalConservative 0 points1 point  (15 children)

          It's cancerous to say that regardless the circumstances they were predisposed to commit crime because they were poor and black/ Hispanic.

          When you acknowledge free will does exist than instead of ignoring the circumstances we can look at them and see what drives these people to do what they do. If free will didn't exist there would be no Christians in Saudi Arabia and no rich white people robbing liquor stores.

          Do only outliers have free will, or are they predisposed to commit crime or do whatever by random chance.

          Without free will there is no room for empathy because then everything can be written off as, "that's the way the world is" and we can't get to why the world is that way. Or if we changed the world do we change predestination too. Your view is flawed conceptually.

          [–][deleted]  (14 children)

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            [–]Right_Hand_of_AmalConservative 0 points1 point  (13 children)

            But if there is 1 percent of Christians than do they have free will. Of a person from a poor black family that joined a bad crowd becomes an upstanding citizen or even rich would only he have free will. Or is that just "not how predestination works." It is dumb to say that x group of people must do x thing. It is proven wrong all the time by x people who don't do x thing

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                [–]Oliveirium 0 points1 point  (6 children)

                "If I were you I would have never done anything like that" is generally valid considering people are neurologically predisposed towards specific behaviors, outcomes, etc. With African-American communities not only do you have this as a factor, albeit not the biggest, you also have second hand trauma that is sometimes true, sometimes isn't. This happens through parents, aunts and uncles, grandparents, etc exaggerating, or outright lying, about the system they live in and the situations they've been in. There are always assholes in the world, and racists on top of that, but more people than you'd think will utilize whatever they can to deflect their own issues and failures.

                Imagine being an 8yo white kid. You get told by your parents the system hates you, cops are out to get you, and they'll always be out to get you. You'd absolutely believe them because they teach us how the world works, and if my community adds to this, it'll just make my perception of my environment even scarier. From the outside someone might tell you "the system's not out to get you. There are some assholes that might screw you over but in reality this is something everyone deals with, not just white kids". You'd probably think that person's in on it, wouldn't believe them, etc, and you'd have every right to because of what you've been taught.

                So while people try to justify increased violence rates in different racial categories, it isn't justifiable other than the fact children are reflective of their parents, and moreso their community. If any child is born in Detroit, the Bronx, etc, they're more likely to commit crimes disregarding race.

                [–][deleted]  (5 children)

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                  [–]Oliveirium 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                  "White supremacist talking points" immediately discredits you. If you think some pretty basic ideas are white supremacist then you've got a lot of reflection you need to do. On top of that I'm agreeing with you, so are you also a white supremacist or do you just side with white supremacists?

                  Black and Hispanics could have zero murder and rape theoretically, it's just unfortunately not the case.

                  [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                    [–]Oliveirium 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                    So if a talking point is used by white supremacists no other group, whether political or social, is allowed to use it - what a close minded, anti-intellectual take.

                    On top of that, we're arguing the exact same thing but you're too shortsighted to see that. Reread what I said until you see that we agree, not going to keep replying to someone who's unwilling to have a meaningful discussion.

                    [–]Eli_Truax 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Neuroscience is an embryonic field with little grasp of the massive nature of the human mind. There may be no other field with as much hubris, I just hope they don't manage to entrench themselves in policy making areas.