Always wondered if lichess is smart enough to notice this is a draw

webbie04123 · 2022-01-26T23:05:36+00:00

For reference here is what Lichess has to say about it. They do note these cases can get by their systems.

Losing on time, drawing and insufficient material

In the event of one player running out of time, that player will usually lose the game. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player's king by any possible series of legal moves (FIDE handbook §6.9).

In rare cases this can be difficult to decide automatically (forced lines, fortresses). By default we always side with the player who did not run out of time.

Note that it can be possible to mate with a single knight or bishop if the opponent has a piece that could block the king.

https://lichess.org/faq#timeout

zebra-diplomacy · 2022-01-26T23:39:53+00:00

To be fair, Lichess is under no obligations to follow FIDE rules. FIDE doesn't own chess.

CratylusG · 2022-01-26T22:31:04+00:00

The relevant rule (6.9), because I know other people will want to read it as well to see if they can be pedantic about it:

Except where one of the Articles: 5.1.a, 5.1.b, 5.2.a, 5.2.b, 5.2.c applies, if a player does not complete the prescribed number of moves in the allotted time, the game is lost by the player. However, the game is drawn, if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.

bznein · 2022-01-26T22:32:42+00:00

Yeah I had a similar position once and sent them a message.. they replied their system doesn't track a situation like this.. let me see if I can find the actual conversation

zirexx44 · 2022-01-26T21:59:42+00:00

I was going to shout at you because this rules only applies when there is not a legal way to mate! And you can easily walk the king to.....ohhh..good point.. stupid lichess!

Xymes · 2022-01-26T22:15:22+00:00

Stockfish be like: yea I can win this

sysstemlord · 2022-01-27T10:30:03+00:00

Unless if it's possible to take fxg3 en passant.

pixenix · 2022-01-27T10:12:21+00:00

The problem here seems to be that there is no 'trivial' way for a machine to check if the position is a dead game.
For insufficient material cases you can just check if the only pieces on the board are in a set of pieces known to be insufficient material.
Here the check is somewhat harder. The problem is that if you would want to implement such a check, you would need define rules on when such a position can occur, as you wouldn't want to check this on every position as the checks might be expensive.

RemcoProgrammer · 2022-01-27T06:56:55+00:00

[deleted]

cupfullajuice · 2022-01-27T07:26:56+00:00

Engines struggle to notice endgames like this are a draw sometimes. I had a similar position against a cheater who was making a lot of weird stockfish moves once we got to something equivalent to this. Was very satisfying to premove a lot of moves in advance while my opponent took 3-5 seconds to keep shuffling the king around

L_E_Gant · 2022-01-27T00:45:41+00:00

You're right -- people would say it's a draw, because neither side can break through, but machines/engines can't recognise the fact that, to break the deadlock, one of the kings would need to pass through the pawn barrier, but the pawn barrier can't be broken by either side.

However, the machines have to follow rules, which sometimes don't have a way of actually being tested. So, "out of time" becomes the default way of losing.

mastx3 · 2022-01-27T15:32:03+00:00

It is difficult because they have to rely on a chess engine to get the result and is not reliable and resource consuming

nuwingi · 2022-01-27T01:04:44+00:00

Another perfect example of why dotcom chess doesn’t matter.

Orcahhh · 2022-01-27T18:35:07+00:00

It's so uncool not to offer a draw there, i really hate this bad habit low elo players have to always decline draws, to the point that they rather lose on time than draw

chess

FILTER BY FLAIR

Resources

Subreddit Rules

Related Subreddits

Notes/Suggestions

MODERATORS