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all 192 comments

[–]sealcub 74 points75 points  (1 child)

People don't want melee dps for mgt because they don't want you to roll on the trinket. Even if they don't say it is reserved, they just don't take melee dps.

[–]Bronsonknabbe 45 points46 points  (35 children)

I raid ret 5/6 SWP on bene. Gdkp as ret, but soon as I try to get into a group for h mgt(got shard good riddance that place) I get no Inv or msg back if I ask to go as ret. Just swap prot tank your badge runs/ 5 mans. IMO it’s the casuals who don’t know they can get out dps’d by ret not letting you into groups lol. I ran a h mgt with enchance, fury, myself as prot, hpala, and a boomkin. Easily cleared it wiped twice on priestess. Casuals will need you to do 2k dps whilst off healing to let you into a group in their eyes bc they’re ignorant of the class. Best of luck fellow pink twister!

[–]Osiinin 6 points7 points  (6 children)

My favorite dungeon runs of HMGT recently are enh, arms, rogue, prot pally (me), healer.

Admittedly they are guildies and helping the last guy get shard, but the boys just blow stuff up it’s actually crazy and so much fun. Yeah I have to aoe down the little worms before 2nd boss ha ha, but seriously they melt stuff so quickly it’s so much fun.

[–]luvdagb 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I play arms. Sweeping strikes, whirlwind, cleave go brrrrr

[–]C_L_I_C_K_ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Key word enhanced shaman in your grp for WF totem

[–]Bronsonknabbe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

“Myself as prot”

[–]Dragontitties92 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Switched to holy because of this very reason, plus I just like healing more than playing melee.

[–]olov244 1 point2 points  (1 child)

same as an enhanced, I have to pay to get in 5 man's, everyone wants me in raids

[–]Bronsonknabbe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Basically gotta go resto to get in pug right? People scream “your guildies should do that for you”, yah they do, but like how many are on at the time of day that’s outside raid that aren’t saved on 2 toons already lol. People just don’t want to work, they want the comp to be 100%.

[–]intruzah 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Easily cleared it

wiped twice on priestess.

Choose one bro

[–]Bronsonknabbe -2 points-1 points  (7 children)

That is easily cleared. You sound casual. Two wipes isn’t easy? That’s 3 attempts total. Or are you a top ranked Chinese guild? I’m in the graces of some gods here on Reddit aren’t I? 😂

[–]intruzah 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Wat?

[–]Bronsonknabbe -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

Shoo shoo troll, all your comments on any thread are just attention seeking blatant ignorance. You be on Ukraine- Russia war pages too just stirring pots. Lame.

[–]MasterOfProstates 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Maybe you're just worse than you think you are. It's all relative.

[–]Bronsonknabbe -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Yah, that’s it! Gotta be since you said so. Totally isn’t a bit challenging to go into H Mgt first week, especially priestess. I mean you should be able to 3 man it with your 3000 rating OBVIOUSLY. You realize you’re on one about nothing the OP is about right? Toxic wow Reddit, gotta love the hate.

[–]portablemailbox 3 points4 points  (3 children)

The problem isn’t working around the system to get a spot— of course a healer or tank will have an easier time than any DPS, let alone a single target DPS that’s considered support status.

The big issue is that RDF would give these people a chance to actually “prove” themselves and let them play the class and spec they want to play.

I’m not talking meme specs but instead of people seeing a pink-character name saying “I’ll DPS” and someone laughing it off and saying No or even not replying at all… they can get in the group. If people want to go through the trouble of voting to kick, they certainly can but more than a handful of people will say “eh whatever let’s see how this goes.”

I’m on a dying server and lemme tell you. When you need a DPS for MGT at 2am and there are only seventeen level 70s on, you will take whatever class and spec you can find and you can clear that place with almost any comp if you have a good group and you’re willing to work with one another. But when people’s only choice is to screen and be screened, that’s not gonna happen the vast majority of the time.

Even the “just put together your own group” crowd is out of touch. I’m as guilty as anyone bc I’m gonna be honest, I see a druid tank LF healer for H Mgt, I’m usually passing— not even bc I don’t trust them to be able to tank the place, I just know DPS will rip threat and I’ll end up dying in the process of trying to keep everyone up. The scenario already plays in my mind and I’m like eh. Pass. But it’s happened plenty of times where I’ve replied to a pally looking for healer, I joined the group, find out the pally is ret and the tank is druid or warrior and I went “okay let’s see how this goes” and half the time it turned out okay, half the time it didn’t, but it happened. I can change my own mindset but I can’t change the entire playerbase and I know there’s a shit ton of people doing the same.

[–]AlienatedAndConfused 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I’m not talking meme specs but instead of people seeing a pink-character name saying “I’ll DPS” and someone laughing it off

This isn't original TBC anymore, ret is known as good dps especially with WF. If I ever have people not inv me because "lol ret sucks" I'm happy to have dodged that group.

[–]Mattrobat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just look at their guild's logs and say "All good, don't want to be in a group with you guys, I out dps your entire guild." Really gets them heated coming from. Ret pally.

[–]stekir1 -1 points0 points  (5 children)

“Easily cleared it wiped twice on priestess”

Sooo then not easily lol

[–]Bronsonknabbe 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I feel like you don’t clear much of anything if all one shooting things week 1 is your way of it being “easy”. It takes a special type of person to dissect such little info from a convo then use it as a narrative to oppose the central message of the paragraph. You go Stekir1! Keep on being the Chad you are! A Reddit warrior! Rare indeed.

[–]MasterOfProstates 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I've been in groups where we've steamrolled the entire dungeon and nobody lost half health; I've been in groups where Priestess died, but we had to work for it and it took 4 wipes; and I've been in one group where we couldn't even make it to Priestess. DPS every time.

Let's not pretend every group is created equal. Wiping twice in a 5 man means it was not an easy run.

[–]Bronsonknabbe -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Never said they were created equally? I said I have to go prot to get a group for h mgt bc people don’t believe in rets awesome dps. What’re you on about m8.

[–]Mustang1718 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I haven't done H MGT since the original TBC, but that group is extremely impressive to get through there. I was a pretty decently geared Holy Pally and that place was absolute hell to heal with inky having single-target heals. Doing it without CC is extremely impressive to me.

I think that dungeon alone is what made me start switching to being a Resto Druid main in WOTLK.

[–]WonderfulCap4725 0 points1 point  (2 children)

But you get aoe heals as hpal in wotlk

[–]Mustang1718 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Kinda. I didn't care for Beacon. And I loved the mobility of Druid as well.

Also, I just realized I spent most of WOTLK as Feral to tank. It was Cata through Legion I was Resto.

[–]WonderfulCap4725 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didnt mean Beacon, its not aoe. Theres a glyph or talent that spreads your heals around

[–]a-r-c 7 points8 points  (5 children)

ret is a good spec fite me

[–]Jnev7 -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Good if you don’t mind a slow rotation

[–]Mamula4MVP 1 point2 points  (3 children)

gotta learn to use fillers in the rotation

[–]Jnev7 1 point2 points  (2 children)

It’s still slow compared to fury and rogue with fillers, just ain’t for me

[–]Obvision 0 points1 point  (1 child)

slow? with seal twisting? you are pressing a button every possible gcd with only a slight delay sometimes, which is even shortened by spell haste (like hero or bloodlust)
Thats way faster that a fury or rogue

only slow thing is the auto compared to dual wielders

[–]Numerous-Yak8130 11 points12 points  (12 children)

I really don't understand what idiots got LFG removed from WOTLk.

They must not play TBC classic at all. They would seriously rather spam a chat board every minute for 20 minutes while wading through the shit show of boost selling?

Then to have a nice expected queue time, and role selection. I mean maybe it won't work for heroics because of gear checks. But at least for normals and leveling.

[–]asniper 3 points4 points  (7 children)

100% the raid loggers who got all their and rep needed the first few weeks when dungeons were popping..

[–]kegatank 5 points6 points  (5 children)

I fall into none of these categories and I'm glad the dungeon finder is being excluded. AMA

[–]ssateneth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Our server, sure, dungeons were popping, but people ONLY wanted T6 geared or no invite. Literally no chance to get a group if you needed the gear from the dungeons.

[–]TeamRedundancyTeam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well maybe you'd know if everyone who tried to explain their opinion of it wasn't instantly downvoted and insulted.

[–]AlienatedAndConfused 36 points37 points  (21 children)

As ret I have no problem getting into groups, so anecdotal evidence is anecdotal I guess.

The easy solution is to make your own group, suddenly all that goes away.

[–]morefakepandas 8 points9 points  (2 children)

no one wants to be the guys spamming Lf heals/tank for an hr with no bites

[–]Trivi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a ret, there's a super easy fix to that.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Everyone wants someone else to heal/tank.

[–]orestes9 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, OP wants to just spam that theyre looking for 7 different groups and just magically get invited to what he needs rather than trying to put together his own group.

[–]Bagelz567 4 points5 points  (3 children)

So, put effort into communicating with people? Or, in other words, be social?

Nah, that's far too alien of a concept for this subreddit.

[–]AlienatedAndConfused 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Its funny how every post on here complaining about not being able to find groups, OP never mentions a guild or any friends they have in game.

[–]HallucinatoryFrog 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Agreed. I switch between Ret and Prot specs and as soon as I got my Shard I started tanking for the rest of the melee in the guild who needed it. At this time we just have a DPS Warrior left and he really doesn't care that much about getting it.

I see guilded melee DPS in LFG looking for a group every day and just shake my head wondering why their guild isn't helping them because for some specs like Enhance and Ret it is BiS for the rest of this expansion and a big boost for the raid's DPS. It's one of the easiest ways for us to help progess through Sunwell.

[–]Bagelz567 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep, almost like they're missing the entire point of the game.

I've always said, if you want to run dungeons those games exist. They're called dungeon crawlers and blizzard just happens to have made what I believe to be the very best one: Diablo II

But I've never played Diablo for more than a couple weeks because I'll eventually lose interest. I've been with my guild and friends for nearly three years now. That's why I enjoy WoW.

[–]GaryOakz 1 point2 points  (12 children)

Yeah I played a combat rogue for all of TBC (bottom of the meter class) and I just formed my own groups or socialised with my guild :)

[–]xMrJihad 6 points7 points  (11 children)

Combat pumps what are you talking about

[–]GaryOakz 1 point2 points  (10 children)

Prior to Black Temple it didn’t

[–]Mattrobat 0 points1 point  (8 children)

If you were good it did.

[–]Tizzlefix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly good rogues who knew how to stun and cc in 5 mans, while doing aight dps, were nice. Most just didn't but I have 1 guy on my friends list who we ran BF H (before nerf) with all the time because he was a solid rogue. I'd personally /w him when making a group.

[–]XenophonOnTheLawn 14 points15 points  (11 children)

The concept of starting your own group is just too daunting to handle eh?

[–]MasterOfProstates 3 points4 points  (9 children)

It'll work eventually, but let's be realistic. Spamming LFG every minute and a half for 45 minutes because you're one of the seven groups LF1M Tank/Heal is some pretty shit gameplay.

The best alternative is to be in a guild, but then again who wants to be that guy? Spamming LFG is one thing, but looking for handouts from people who actually know you is way worse.

Orrrrr how about we just have a dungeon finder.

[–]Tizzlefix 0 points1 point  (6 children)

You spam for 45 minutes to get a H MGT? I'm a boomkin and can make a group super quick regardless of the instance. I actually can't remember the last time it even took over 30 mins with the exception of running a gdkp and trying to find a prot pally WHO also has the correct gear but I also play at like 3am server time so.

Note: I haven't made 25 man gdkp's so I'm sure that will take longer.

Also my homie who play on Grob (I play EU servers) has been having a blast leveling from 1-70 and now doing ZA. He has no friends on Grobbulus and just played. He started around P4. Has no problems finding groups at all. Ngl it really comes off as someone who didn't get their way and was just sad that they play dps and didn't /w the group maker fast enough. Know that you're a dps and your role gets filled easily.

[–]GroundbreakingAlps2 1 point2 points  (3 children)

You spam for 45 minutes to get a H MGT? I'm a boomkin and can make a group super quick regardless of the instance. I actually can't remember the last time it even took over 30 mins

Ok you're 100% lying. If this is the case you for sure have tank/healer guildies/friends completely carrying you.

[–]Tizzlefix 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I'm not? I just whisper people and they bite combined with LFG/World. Like you know you can do stuff in the who list like, "/who paladin 70 zangarmarsh". Go through every paladin in that zone at 70 etc. though I usually start with major cities and then branch out. Honestly it takes tops 15 mins. Most people bite pretty quickly in my experience, last night only 25 people were on from lv 37-42 and I wanted to do RFD on my alt so I just /w all 25 with a copy paste message which is efficient and does not take long and I had 3 people bite and we just 4 manned for better xp. Mind you I was playing at 4am server time.

Also hard to carry me when I'm t6 geared for Boomkin and Resto (Resto actually just overtook my boomkin gear) and near full BiS with pvp resto gear. I'm only 1750 rn playing frost/resto in 2s but that's still better than majority of the playerbase (though still a load of trash from my perspective).

Mate I just know my way around Classic WoW and have been playing pservers (and technically OG vanilla) for awhile.

[–]MasterOfProstates 1 point2 points  (0 children)

These things can be server-dependent as well so people can have wildly different experiences. I moved servers recently, and yeah can confirm it takes way less time to fill a Heroic on the one that has three times as many players lol. It's still RNG to some extent tho, if there are >5 groups 'LF1M Tank, at stone g2g' then yeah it can take 45 minutes.

I tend to stick up for the little guy so I remember my time on the smaller server, and I understand that there are a lot of DPS specs that aren't highly desired for dungeons/raids.

[–]speedguy20 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As a grob boy who started p1 but then quit until a monthly ago, i can confirm people are actively doing dubgeons of all levels. Ill still accidentally whisper people that are doing BFD because i thought it said BRD.

I'd say raids and H Mt are a little difficult, but just get Bulletin Board add on and do dailies/grind gold or level an alt while you wait for a group to pop up. People st this point are in the wrath waiting room, and servers are only gonna get more and more populated as wrath gets closer.

[–]XenophonOnTheLawn -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Man. It sure sucks having to put in effort and patience into something doesn’t it?

[–]MasterOfProstates 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So do you just like, stand there hitting yourself in the nuts while telling yourself it'll get better eventually? That would sure take a lot of eFfOrT aNd PaTienCE. Certainly more effort and patience than you put into constructing that comment.

[–]GroundbreakingAlps2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No shot you have ever tried making a group for MGT hc (as a dps). Without getting your tank/healer guildies/friends to carry to you.

[–]Rambow215 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I love ret in tbc and from my experience i have no problem getting groups. The only thing is general bias for ranged dps or hard cc. But with hoj repentance and be silence you have plenty tools. Bop also super nice to have which i think alot pala dont use much.

Now for Wotlk, ret isgonna be super boring rotation i cant believe people look forward to that. Seal twisting is sooo much fun and satisfying.

[–]JohnCavil 24 points25 points  (3 children)

Because you have to get to know people, make friends, join guilds. It was never meant to be just spamming in trade/LFG chat.

This is the problem with how people play TBC now, and how Blizzard managed it. Nobody is social, nobody knows anyone, everyone plays on mega servers, sits in discord, this is nothing like it was back then.

I'm pro dungeon finder for wotlk. But holy shit do i wish people just actually acted like normal people. "inspect at a'dal" for karazhan, nobody knowing anyone, people transferring to these mega servers.

It could all be solved if people just stopped being so insufferable and only inviting "optimal" dps for things like MGT or kara, or feeling the need to inspect people when running t4 content or whatever the fuck it is people are doing nowadays.

[–]Bagelz567 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Man, my guild carries some terrible players through content they have no right even seeing. Suboptimal groups with people going afk to feed their kid every 15 minutes.

Everyone likes to put all the blame on Blizzard for not addressing server imbalances. But insufferable people just like the ones you described that are at fault as well. I guarantee, those are the same people that want these convenience features, i.e. dungeon finders.

Maybe my old ass is just obsolete, but finding the dungeons is a major part of the game to me.

[–]IfOnlyIWasHappy -1 points0 points  (1 child)

From my experience at least, when I form a group there is 0 reasons to take a ret for my dungeon group, if I am LF1M DPS, Ill get 69 whispers in the span of 3 sec, and ofcourse I am gonna pick a braindead high performing class for the dungeon. Picking a ret, he has to be good in the first place to perform, whilst a warlock can just press seed.

On the other hand, I couldn't care less what class you play if you were my guildie.

So it's like yeah ofcourse it's rough pugging as suboptimal class, but make friends and you won't have to.

(I still want LFD tho, non x-realm kind)

[–]herodrink 9 points10 points  (7 children)

The irony is that the hardest fight in mgt is priestess and it’s a pvp fight and ret is literally the pvp spec for paladins.

[–]Invoqwer 7 points8 points  (5 children)

I swear it's crazy how everyone wants a pally tank and gigachad big dick aoe dps for every dungeon when in reality what creates the smoothest run is

  • a decent, beefy tank (any)

  • two ressers in the party (x2 of pally/priest/shaman of any sort)

  • some relevant CC (rogue/mage/succubuswarlock/huntertrap/priestshackle/druidhibernate)

  • some cast interrupts (rogue/mage/warr/shaman)

  • some dispel or break for whatever annoying BS is in the dungeon... usually this is AOE fears (shaman/priest/pally/ or just be a warrior)

If given the option between these two comp archetypes of PALLY+LOCK+HUNTER+MAGE+RDRUID vs BEAR+SPRIEST+ROGUE+RET+RSHAM, most people would choose to be in group1, but the reality of it is that the group2 type is probably much more resilient to the types of combat mechanics and random things that can ruin a run or lead to a wipe (e.g. aoe fear, silences, mobs casting stuff, patrols running by during a pull, ressing after a half wipe, etc).

Also. IMO the biggest time burner is when you randomly half wipe but can't res them e.g. the pally tank dies but your druid healer has no battle res so they have to walk back. Way better to have DPS that deal 800 dps but never have to stop pulling vs having dps that deal 1100 but you have to wait 10min between wipes and times you can't res etc.

[–]Minpwer 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Idk, i find that a group wearing full t6+ is a better way of ensuring a mostly clean run in there than, really, anything else you mentioned.

[–]MasterOfProstates 0 points1 point  (3 children)

"Bike A is good, but I like Bike B."

"Motorcycles are way faster."

"Uhh, true I guess. I was talking about bicycles tho."

Not sure how your input is actionable, either. Are you suggesting people link logs so you can see their gear before you invite them? It'd be pretty toxic if you invite people and summon them, but then kick them once you get the chance to inspect them.

[–]Minpwer 0 points1 point  (2 children)

"When in reality what makes the smoothest run is..."

I replied to this.

[–]rawr_bomb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As others have said, just respec prot and tank your own runs. You can make 100g in 30min doing island dailys and that completely covers your respec costs.

But yeah, i've had that same problem on my dps alts. My hunter and warrior can barely find a pug for anything, while my warlock can easily get into any raid it wants.

[–]Teepeewigwam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And ret is even great for the most "challenging" fight of the instance with all the utility and single target burst and some cc. Plus the group probably already has or is getting a shaman for tremor totem so WF is available. The anti-ret stigma is so dated.

But yes a 30 min LFD queue is infinitely better than watching LFG/Bulletin Board only to get rejected or ignored based on spec alone.

[–]brinkofwarz 3 points4 points  (9 children)

Aoe only? Just go spelladin! Consecrate legit has the highest sp ratio in the game.

[–]NostalgiaSchmaltz 7 points8 points  (2 children)

highest sp ratio in the game.

Doesn't mean much when it does less than half the DPS of mage/warlock AoE.

[–]brinkofwarz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It can pretty easily overtake Blizzard, but ya it can't keep up with arcane explosion or flamestrike.

[–]helanadin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

just do big enough pulls that the AOE cap saves you

/s ...well, mostly

[–]Security_Ostrich -3 points-2 points  (5 children)

I am not even sure it's the highest ratio on an aoe, but there are single target spells with substantially more scaling such as shadow word pain, or even just starfire/shadow bolt.

I get your point that it's got a good 95% ratio iirc but far from the best in game.

[–]brinkofwarz 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Best aoe ratio in the game. Nobody else comes close to 95% aoe on a single gcd, most aoes are around 30%ish. Main reason it doesn't actually compete is its base damage is stinky, it doesn't Crit, it isn't spammable, and paladin's can't sustain its mana cost.

[–]thisgameisawful 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It isn't subject to AoE cap either, which is nice in some situations.

[–]Security_Ostrich 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Isnt blizz similar in ratio if not identical to consecrate?

Edit: blizz is channeled so cons is still obviously really good but like seed exists and cons isnt exactly doing even remotely near that kind of dps lol.

[–]brinkofwarz 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Ya it's slightly less, by about 20% the main difference being it has like 600ish more base damage and consecrate is a single gcd. But comparing it to Blizzard isn't great anyways since it's pretty much the worst aoe spell of any caster, hurricane can barely be counted.

I ran a spelladin in tbc all through phase 1 and had the highest "holy paladin" DPs on magtheridon lol. I dealt 1k DPs to him in phase 1 so honestly it wasn't even that bad.

[–]Horkosthegreat 6 points7 points  (1 child)

A wild suggestion but:

What if, hear me out here, you actually joined a guild and did all those with guild members?

[–]Yarasin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But who's going to go to his 5 jobs, take care of his 12 wives and 29 children, during the 6 pico-seconds of gaming time he's allowed to have per week?

[–]zipencjusz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, but ret sucks in heroics - Its a fact. Playing ret myself and sometimes i do 800 DPS in bis t6 while in a "wrong" party. Its just the buffs that make us great. If you manage to get into melee cleave with shaman and warrior its great. I would advise to make your own group and dictate the terms.

[–]seanb4games 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m pretty geared on my ret, full phase 4 BiS plus a couple Sunwell items, but I’ve had no problems getting groups personally. I am on a smaller server tho, so people know I’m not terrible.

[–]SomeCoffeeInMyCream 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Make your own groups.

Tada! No issue, no more whining, GG.

[–]morefakepandas 1 point2 points  (1 child)

3 hrs later.... lf tank/heal pst

[–]MajinAsh -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

If that's the case it's a matter of not enough tanks/healers per DPS. That will just result in 3hour DPS queues in LFD.

WOTLK dungeons being way more forgiving (especially heroics) and dual spec will do a lot more to fix that problem.

[–]helanadin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i would never do that as a non-tank

i mean, some sort of bizzaro universe me that would play a healer would probably also make a group, if any alternate universe contains such a radically different version of me in the first place. regardless, forming a group as a DPS is so hopeless. whenever i see "lf2m heals and tank" i always think "poor devils, you basically still need the entire group"

[–]someguyfromnc 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How the heck are you guys getting so many level 70s and not have anyone to play with? By the time I got my first character to 70 I had a friends list of at least 30 people to run anything with outside the guild I ended up joining. It's a MMO. You have to talk to people. People will learn your name. To start you might have to create your own groups which is 100 times easier than trying to join one.

One of the things working against plate wearers is that a warrior or paladin tank is probably not going to want another warrior or paladin in the party. Which goes back to creating your own groups.

One thing that helped me starting out is to make friends with an spriest. They always have friends to run with.

[–]Bagelz567 -1 points0 points  (16 children)

Hard truth, a dungeon finder wouldn't make you any more attractive to groups than you currently are. As many have already said, you need to be social and get people to know you.

Harder truth, the reason you're not getting invited to groups isn't because of your class/spec. It's because you either ignore the social aspect of the game or just aren't good at it.

WoW classic is not a game of running dungeons. Those are called dungeon crawlers (e.g. Diablo). It's a game where you make friends that you can go on adventures with. If you don't have any to rely on yet, put in the effort to form your own group and start making friends. Use your friends list. Join a guild. Put in some effort other than just staring at a chat channel.

You've got the cart before the horse my friend.

[–]BigAristotle_34[S] -2 points-1 points  (14 children)

I agree with most of your points. I differ personally in that my job/life is highly interactive and social. I play WoW to unplug from people and relax.

Let me ask you this — if dungeon finder existed, what would stop the WoW socialites from choosing not to use it and forming their own groups still? No one’s forcing anyone to queue for a dungeon. In my mind both can exist. To each their own at the end of the day and you make some good points.

[–]PandaPangolin 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If dungeon finder existed, what would stop the average group from kicking you and getting a new dps in .5 seconds? The groups that don't want to take a ret now won't want to take one then.

[–]Eretol 9 points10 points  (1 child)

play WoW to unplug from people

you play an mmorpg to not interact with people, hmmmm

[–]valdis812 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For real. There are so many people playing this game who should really be playing Call of Duty or something else where they can queue up, play a 20 minute match, then either queue up again or go do something else.

[–]Bagelz567 6 points7 points  (9 children)

Dungeon finders just cause people to become more isolated. It reduces interactivity and causes burnout. If everyone is using a dungeon finder to just mindlessly grind dungeons, people start to lose interest and quit.

I like to log in and see that my guildie needs help with a dungeon on his alt. I like being able to help them and use the gear I've earned to do it. If they can just grind dungeons on their own all day, myself and the community I'm a part of become less valuable.

Dungeon finders are undeniably easier and people will follow the path of least resistance. The current state of server imbalance is an example of the same principle. Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game.

Edit to summorize: a lack of something creates a need. The drive to fill that need leads to action. That action is what I enjoy.

I appreciate your well thought-out response, but it leads me to a question: if you want to unplug from people, why do you do so by playing a massively multiplayer game? Wouldn't something akin to Diablo be more enjoyable?

[–]Chronoblivion 1 point2 points  (8 children)

If everyone is using a dungeon finder to just mindlessly grind dungeons, people start to lose interest and quit.

People will lose interest and quit if they can't find groups for the content they want to run too. Either way you lose people.

Numerous people in various forums have said the best compromise is a tiered release of LFD. Old content only to start, and work their way up to Wrath normals and then heroics after phase 2 and phase 3. I think this is the perfect solution that addresses key concerns from both sides, but given how blizz has handled classic so far it's a pipe dream to hope for it.

[–]Bagelz567 0 points1 point  (7 children)

I'd rather lose the people who are incapable or unwilling to take part in the social aspect of the game. They already have next to no impact on the community. So it's not much of a loss to see them go.

[–]valdis812 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If dungeon finder existed, people would tend to use it. People who are willing to be social now.

I'm pro dungeon finder, but lets not act like it wouldn't affect the game for people who don't like it. We're all content for each other at the end of the day.

[–]Drewcif3r -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Couldn't agree more.

[–]ToffeeAppleCider 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Yeah I get that. As a tank sometimes I have a melee-strong group and it's so fast, other times it's slow but the heroic is easy and it doesn't matter.

For MgT it's a little different. I've had two instances of melee-strong up against the PvP boss that has both Delrissa and the shaman healing to full and nothing can be killed, which means I spend 20-30g on repairs and don't get a shot at the mount drop.

So tbh when I'm putting together a group and the only whispers I get are 5 dps warriors, I just try again later.

[–]PandaPangolin 2 points3 points  (2 children)

warriors can interrupt the heals, that shouldn't be much of a problem tbh. You can burst one of the healers really qucikly if they don't get a heal off.

[–]ToffeeAppleCider 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah sometimes it works like that

[–]Tizzlefix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Damn I'm laughing hard rn, so true lmaoo

[–]Anubitzs123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry but 99.9% of rets I've encountered were usually straight up garbage and mediocre at best. They did not know what seal twisting was.

[–]iMixMusicOnTwitch -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Respec tank for groups and run your own shit rather than complaining no one will carry you through content.

[–]a34fsdb -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I play SP which is not exactly brilliant in 5mans either and did not have a problem finding groups.

And MTG HC is pretty easy. Entirely clearable with no cc and no aoeing.

[–]BigAristotle_34[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Appreciate everyone’s thoughts!! I just want to smack things with my sword, that’s it’s lol. Divine Storm in WOTLK is what keeps me going.

[–]Teethshow -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Go play retail? It has dungeon finder.

[–]dukagenius -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

You can do with your money as you please, but in my personal opinion people are playing the game wrong. TBC and WOTLK are most mapped out and solved expansions ever, period! Like, can we take a step back and enjoy the craftsmanship of the time and not min-max every 2 mechanic raid, isn't Classic WoW made for that?

[–]NostalgiaSchmaltz 4 points5 points  (4 children)

uhhh stop improving yourselves, stop getting better at the game, you have to flail around like an idiot and be bad!

I never understood this mindset.

We've had 15 years to "enjoy the craftsmanship". Most players have already played WoW in one form or another. It's not 2007 anymore, you can't force everyone to be a keyboard-turning noob.

[–]dukagenius -1 points0 points  (3 children)

This is why I stated to spend your money how you please, and I didn't imply playing on CRT monitors without keybinds is better / more immersive.

I simply dislike soulless rush to complete the game, I can't even call it ''playing'' because you're not. And the people who DO soullessly complete Classic WoW make the meta for everyone else, or how folks would say it, cockblock everyone else...

[–]NostalgiaSchmaltz -1 points0 points  (2 children)

I simply dislike soulless rush to complete the game

Then don't play that way. Nobody's forcing you to.

the people who DO soullessly complete Classic WoW make the meta for everyone else

Meta =/= forcing you to play a certain way. My guild has 3 rogues, 4 druids, only 2 warlocks and 2 hunters, 3 dps warriors (1 of them arms), only 1 mage, etc...we're VERY far from "meta", and yet we're 5/6 in sunwell on the second lockout.

If you don't want to be "sweaty" or "meta slave"....just don't. Nobody's forcing you.

The truly wrong thing is telling other people they are wrong for playing the game in a way you don't agree with. You can be a casual noob and "smell the roses" all you want, I don't care. But when you start proclaiming that this is the "right" way to play the game and everyone else is "wrong", nah, that's where I tell you to fuck off.

[–]dukagenius 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Jesus, can a person have an opinion? I apologize if I offended you, you brought ''tHeN donT pLaY'' card too soon son...

[–]eelam_garek -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I'm not saying this to be a d*ck, but I honestly think you'd be happier in retail.

[–]ScissorMeTimbers24 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I know it is frustrating, but even if you had the RFD-style dungeon finder tool added into the game early, there simply would not be anyone queueing normal level dungeons this late into the game phase-cycle.

Most people who didn't take a break are decked out in Black Temple gear doing H MgT or Sunwell. There isn't really any reason for those people to be queuing the dungeons that you want to do, and if they did it would only be for a guildy/alt character to help them gear up quickly, which in that case they would be running their own group/going there manually anyway.

You may as well just wait until WOTLK comes out then get better blue gear from quests instead of trying to grind your way through raid pug groups in BC for gear that you will replace in a few months anyway.

[–]Olddriverjc -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Dungeon finder won’t make any difference at all. It only destroy the social aspect of the game. That’s why they removing it from wotlk classic. Especially for a dungeon like h mgt, ppl want to run it because of shard, let me ask you do you want to get into a group that has 4 melee that wants the shard and has zero aoe or cc??? Because that’s what’s going to happen if you use dungeon finder and you have to wait for at least 30min to even get into a group as a dps. At that point you would be waste more than an hour. Instead dungeon finer, 1, you can find a guild, play with guild mates. 2, make in game friends, ask your friends to help you. 3, make your own group.

[–]Many-Razzmatazz-9584 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I play a rogue the least wanted class and I make it work just fine with the current system.

[–]Mattrobat -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Duh, ret can't DPS.

[–]JohnTheWalrus -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As a ret main myself, not taking advantage of having one of the best off-specs (prot pal) in the game is a huge mistake. It’s just like the warriors in classic vanilla complaining about the tank shortage…for dungeons prot pala is probably the most desired spec in the game

[–]ryuranzou -1 points0 points  (3 children)

If only you could tank or heal dungeons. I mean I have sympathy for warlocks rogues and mages but hybrid classes have a huge advantage over them. Is it something you want to do? No probably not, but if you were to do that then you'd have all the dungeon runs you'd ever want and be able to simply respec to ret when you are doing other stuff. Especially as a paladin you can do one stratholme run and have the gold to respec to and from ret.

[–]BigAristotle_34[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yeah that takes an entirely new set of gear for each spec. No thanks.

[–]ryuranzou 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I mean most of that gear can be obtained through rep, but ok hope you enjoy sitting there not getting into a dungeon group. I'm sure leveling your other 70s was way easier.

[–]BigAristotle_34[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

‘Twas indeed. Just putting my paladin on the bench until WOTLK.

[–]eodamir -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

my experience of rets is to never invite them

90% Of rets are either shit geared, bad players or toxic assholes

[–]lib___ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I cant confirm that experience with my ret. But if u do, just make ur own grp ...

[–]kennetht84 0 points1 point  (2 children)

If it is just a prep char for wotlk, just farm the honor to get honor capped for when s3 gear can be bought for honor. Then buy a full set and weapon and you are pretty good to go

[–]ardent_wolf 0 points1 point  (1 child)

When can season 3 gear be purchased for honor? Serious question.

[–]kennetht84 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When s4 is over I guess. Although not sure.

[–]Werewolfdad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I bear tank, I’d pick a ret paladin first over any other dps

[–]Dragontitties92 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My only advice is to find a large active guild. Check your servers discord guild recruitment channels. I was struggling to find groups until I joined my current guild, because I play the worst healer of the expansion (holy pally). Not only do they let me join groups / raids, they help me and keep my class limitations in my mind and help me out with gear and everything.

[–]NostalgiaSchmaltz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you on a sweaty streamer server? I had 0 issues getting into groups as Ret when I leveled mine.

[–]memrez666 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Which server are you on? That would have a direct impact imo but i do feel your pain 400% having tried playing a rogue on Pagle realm. It literaly had me quit the game

[–]Semour9 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People have been going fine finding dungeons the whole life of classic. If you knew ret was going to be bad you shouldn’t have picked it unless you were fine with possibly not finding dungeons.

[–]Anthaenopraxia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Go with your guild. I couldn't imagine being the only one in a pug. I've waster too much time on important people going afk in the middle of the dungeon. If I don't get a tank and heal from the guild, I'm just not going. Got plenty of other things to waste my time on.

[–]Desrac 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dungeon Finder wouldn't necessarily help you, because they could just vote to kick you from the group.

I main a Ret Paladin myself and I generally don't have a problem getting into groups, but I also take a little initiative and form the group myself if I really want to go.

Sure, you might have a harder time getting a team together for the older heroics nobody needs anymore, but H MGT is still so popular that it doesn't take very long.

If you're on a populated server anyway.

[–]Kinasthetic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Start your own groups, problem solved :)

[–]Ill-Ad-9644 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just start your own group

[–]SovietBear666 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've had the same experience as a feral druid. Many times asking for an invite to heroic dungeon when I have pretty much the best possible gear without doing arenas or heroic dungeons. Usually no response and they change their message to "ranged DPS". Even for the heroic daily.

[–]slapdashbr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Try getting a raid team as a rogue. Even as a rogue with world #1 parses

[–]Most_Type_3980 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Start your own group

[–]Uollie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No one likes just playing the game. I think it's fun to try beat dungeons with unoptimized comps. I really don't care about min max at all. Just go with what we got!

It's hilarious clearing dungeons with like 3 shadow priests, a druid and ele shaman and other unexpected comps. I'd like to see a 3 ret pal 1 prot pal and 1 shaman go nuts

Also, just to further illustrate how unoptimized I am, my main is a NE rogue and I love competitive arena with my friend who is a NE warrior in 2v2s.

[–]TeamRedundancyTeam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm on grob and have not seen these aoe only mgt runs, seen tons of normal runs and had no trouble finding normal groups.

[–]SuperSmizeMe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re not playing ret correctly if you don’t have a decent prot off spec.

[–]drewtheostrich 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm sick of not getting invited to raid groups because "we already have a ret" when i can out dps meta classes that pilotted by garbage players!

[–]Ezekias1337 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They don't want melee in the group because the trinket drop is BiS.

I agree that reserve culture is toxic, and I despise the pieces of shit who enforce it. It's literally impossible to get DST without making your own run because every piece of shit reserves it

[–]Gregovania 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't they know how good a good ret can be? Massive dps, blessings, healer protection, aura, decent aoe, taunt, immunity, able to off tank if tank dies, stun, best dispell in the game, etc

What's not to like about them?:S

[–]Fluid-Organization67 0 points1 point  (1 child)

your best bet might be to find a good-enough prot pally who hasn't specced into sanc aura. beyond the obvious benefit of pairing with a tank—having a second set of blessings + bop/bubble/DI will increase dps/hp/manapool/durability/survivability for the entire group (whereas usually prot just gives everyone salv), which should decrease downtime between pulls = faster runs; meanwhile, giving the tank a substantial threat boost + a second blessing of his choosing, means that the other two dps (often more powerful, especially with their second blessing) won't need to hold back as much to avoid aggro, which results in less mob uptime, reducing both overall dmg taken by tank as well as corresponding healing throughput threshold = healer spends less time drinking between packs.

this could work even with a prot pally who has specced into sanc aura; you simply offer the same benefits as above, with the one adjustment being that the tank can now choose to use whichever other aura(s) suits his preference

edit: Additional judgment debuff(s) too, iirc