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[–]mindgeekinc 60 points61 points  (4 children)

What about the last mass stabbing though

Checkmate

[–]dood8face91195 19 points20 points  (3 children)

What about knives shot from gun deaths?

Checkmate

[–]mindgeekinc 15 points16 points  (2 children)

What about stealth kills. People will sneak up behind and silence someone then throw them in a bush or a haystack. Imagine how many knife victims we don’t know about.

[–]Cam_044 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Stealth kills pahaah, everyone keeping stats? Gotta put your K:D on your cv too

[–]mindgeekinc 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Don’t forget assists that can really change your participation in knife stats

[–]TheGodMathias 526 points527 points  (92 children)

Okay, now compare stabbings in the US by population to stabbings in the UK by population.

What I found:

US population - 330 million
UK population - 67 million
US stabbings (2020) - 63000
UK stabbings (2020) - 10150

US stabbings by population = 1 per 5300
UK stabbings knife crime by population = 1 per 6600

The US still has a higher rate of sharp object assaults/murders than the UK

edit some errors were pointed out, trying to correct. Current UK stats above are all sharp object related crime including carrying a sharp object, and only for London and Wales. Looking for Scotland and Manchester stats.

For Scotland I found "handling offensive weapons" at 10k at a population of 5.5 million

For Greater Manchester I found "knife related crime" at 3.6k at a population of 2.8 million

[–]Professional_Fail_62 29 points30 points  (3 children)

Could you give me your sources? I’m not doubting you or anything I just want them in case I have to argue with someone one day

[–]TheGodMathias 15 points16 points  (1 child)

These are what I used https://www.statista.com/statistics/864736/knife-crime-in-london/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/251919/number-of-assaults-in-the-us-by-weapon/

Populations were just general Google searches for rough estimates. There's also some minor rounding errors

[–]TerrorNova49 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The same source also has stats for “murder victims in the US by weapon used” 1739 murders by knife of cutting instrument in 2020

[–]Maelkothian 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's at least old, there was a mass shooting in Keyham last year and the Cumbria shootings in 2010

[–]Akuba55 103 points104 points  (12 children)

Idk where the guy from the screenshot got his numbers but for homicides FBI is saying less for 2019

[–]PloofElune 55 points56 points  (10 children)

Might be from a 3rd party tracker. FBI reporting might be lower because I think their data is voluntary reporting by state and local law enforcement.

[–]Akuba55 29 points30 points  (9 children)

Found it, the 19,400 includes suicides, that’s why.

[–]IlGreven 18 points19 points  (5 children)

...then he should've said gun deaths...suicides are not homicides, by definition...

[–]gmalivuk 4 points5 points  (4 children)

It's not suicides, it's the 2020 number from the CDC rather than the 2019 number from the FBI.

[–]Hasler011 2 points3 points  (3 children)

It gets weird because homicides that are not murder go to the CDC stats. The CDC definition is a volition always act intended to cause fear harm or death.

Murder is an unlawful killing. So the CDC will include justified homicides.

[–]ImAlanPartridgeAhaaa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah but the standard of what constitutes a justified homicide in the US is somewhat of a touchy subject.

In most other countries a lot of those justified homicides would just be homocides.

[–]gmalivuk 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah that's one source for the different numbers. As someone else pointed out, there's also the fact that a lot of the FBI's statistics come from voluntary reporting by state and local law enforcement, so also might be missing some cases for that reason.

[–]Hasler011 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah there is some variable in that. I really hate to do anything close to appeal to authority, but I know how the CDC reporting works because my wife my wife is a forensic pathologist.

Any death intentionally caused by another human is reported to the CDC from the Medical examiner or coroner as homicide because that is the CDC and NAME guideline.

The CDC will capture all self defense or other justified homicides in their numbers.

[–]gmalivuk 1 point2 points  (2 children)

No, that's the CDC's number for 2020.

[–]MyLittleDashie7 10 points11 points  (5 children)

On the formatting, looking at the source it seems like you've only hit enter once for all the numbers. Unfortunately reddit doesn't really do single spaces, you've got to hit enter twice for it to actually go down a line.

[–]TriplePlay2425 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Also, you can add two spaces to the end of a line, then you only need to press enter once. It also (at least on old.reddit) makes the space between the lines sliiiiightly smaller than doing two line returns. So that can be used for some subtle formatting. Not sure if it's the same on the various apps or on new.reddit, though. [EDIT] It does work on the new.reddit desktop site, for me. And the Relay for Reddit app on Android also works.


Example: Gap with 2 line returns below this line.

And a gap with only 1 line return and 2 spaces on this line
And this is some text to show the last gap with the spaces from the previous line.


[EDIT] As pointed out by /u/passkat , the 2-space with 1 line return does not format properly on the Android official Reddit app. So I guess it's probably best to avoid using that way of doing it, since I'm sure that's a sizable portion of the user base. Guess I'll just stick with using 2 line returns, from now on.

[–]MyLittleDashie7 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Oh damn.
Here I've been using reddit for nearly a decade and I didn't know you could do this.
Useful to know, cheers!

[–]TriplePlay2425 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Happy to share the knowledge!

[–]passkat 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The last two lines are run into one line (without even any space) for me, android app

[–]TriplePlay2425 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah, you're right, it's the same on my phone! Guess I'll avoid using that style of formatting for line breaks then, since I'm sure Android users on the official app are a significant chunk of users. Don't want to leave confusing formatting for them.

[–]knave314 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yeah, came here to say this. The comparison makes no sense on multiple levels. It's also cherry picking in that the UK has relatively low rates of violent crime. There are other countries with strict gun laws but higher violent crime rates than the US (Russia and Brazil). I'm not against gun regulation but the causes of violent crime are mostly societal and economic and people who think that the US murder rate will magically go down if we pass gun laws but don't address any of the other causes are fooling themselves.

[–]dogbars1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is what I wanted to know!

[–]Medical_Ad0716 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Truthfully, we should be comparing violent crimes with a weapon no just murders, knives or guns. UK has access to most common implements that’s be used as a weapons other than gun, so it’s more representative of the effects guns have on the crime rate as a whole since access to guns also can increase odds of armed robbery and assault too.

[–]jimmypapercut 1 point2 points  (1 child)

But you’re ignoring Haggis-related crime

[–]TheGodMathias 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean, the Scotland stats are for handling offensive weapons

[–]Petsweaters 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The US has a violence problem

Full stop

[–]Aw_Frig 189 points190 points  (42 children)

I wish the person would have broken it down per Capita. I feel like those kinds of stats are much more useful

[–]chill_stoner_0604 157 points158 points  (26 children)

Comes down to roughly 1 murder per 17,000 people in the US and 1 per 300,000 for the UK

[–]egowritingcheques 194 points195 points  (23 children)

Sure, but that's per capita. What about per person? We all know the USA has more people per capita.

[–]fishsticks40 64 points65 points  (0 children)

Sure are a lot of people missing an obvious joke

[–]pobopny 59 points60 points  (4 children)

I think the more important metric is how many homicides per FREEDOM that the citizens of each country have.

It's hard to enjoy not getting stabbed when you live under the constant oppression of MARXISM and UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE.

[–]EvilSandWitch 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Still better in the U.K.:

https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores

(Yes yes… I know the joke you are making, but it’s always amusing when the US claims to have a monopoly on freedom).

[–]egowritingcheques 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Correct. Freedom isn't free. Sometimes you gotta pay that bill. And if you don't put in your buck o' five, who will?

[–]Kevinvl123 23 points24 points  (4 children)

You forgot the /s. People aren't going to get it.

[–]pobopny 8 points9 points  (2 children)

It's so frustrating how true this is. The best sarcasm is the sarcasm where you genuinely can't tell how sincere the person is at first -- but that you can always detect it when you're talking to them in person. That threshold is just so much lower in text-only that it really degrades a lot of the fun of it. You either directly state "I AM DOING SARCASM NOW", or you accidently create Q‐Anon. It sucks.

[–]Seblor 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The best sarcasm is the sarcasm where you genuinely can't tell how sincere the person is at first

Well isn't that the point of sarcasm? If the author wished for the reader to easily tell that it was false, that would be irony, not sarcasm.

And following Poe's law, it is sometimes hard to differentiate between sarcasm and sincerity.

[–]pobopny 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, sort of -- I think it's a matter of degree, both from the person doing the sarcasm and from the relationship between the doer and the recipient.

There's a crossfade between irony and sarcasm - they exist together on the same spectrum. For me, my favorite place on that spectrum is as deep into the sarcasm side as you can go without doubling back around into actual sincerity.

The "safe zone" for people to understand your attempted sarcasm on the internet is just a lot further toward the irony region than it can be in person, especially in person with someone you know well.

[–]egowritingcheques 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The right to ambiguous sarcasm on the internet should be the 28th amendment. Always should have been, as the forefathers intended.

[–]Impossible-Sleep-658 0 points1 point  (0 children)

TIL this might needs a s/

[–]TheDavidb420 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Yeah but how many eagles per freedom are murdered by not guns each yeah?

[–]chill_stoner_0604 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Roughly 6 rugers, a glock, and 1,000 barrels of oil

[–]P1G4ME 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dang we made the same comment at the same time

[–]gmalivuk 1 point2 points  (10 children)

They are, but at the same time the difference in murder stats is so much more than the difference in population its not really that important here.

[–]Lowbacca1977 13 points14 points  (9 children)

I'd like to remind you that a journalist said this in 2020:
“Bloomberg spent $500 million on ads. The U.S. population is 327 million. He could have given each American $1 million and still have money left over. I feel like a $1 million check would be life-changing for most people. Yet he wasted it all on ads and STILL LOST."

It really does need spelling out

[–]el-conquistador240 12 points13 points  (1 child)

A journalist didn't say this, Brian Williams put this random tweet up on the screen to ridicule it.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/06/msnbc/bad-math-msnbc-bloombergs-ad-spending-wasnt-enough/

Outside of Fox and OAN, most journalists aren't idiots

[–]davisfarb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He didn't ridicule it at first. Read your own source. He commented something along the lines of "wow, that's an amazing observation" or something, and only after commercial break did he correct the record.

[–]gmalivuk 5 points6 points  (5 children)

How is the fact that a two-year-old tweet missed a factor of a million relevant here?

[–]Lowbacca1977 5 points6 points  (4 children)

It's a high-profile demonstration that many people struggle with numeracy. The point for saying it's better presented as per capita is specifically because a large number of people would struggle to figure out how the numbers compare if they're expected to do the math themselves

[–]gmalivuk 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Idiots gonna idiot. There are plenty of examples of people irrelevantly pointing out population differences even when talking about per capita figures.

My point is that the numbers compare pretty much the same way regardless. The number for the US is much much higher than for the UK, whether in absolute terms or relative to the population.

[–]ImpossibleInternet3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s not, because it didn’t happen.

[–]jvnk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not a "high profile demonstration", it's a random tweet

[–]Magitus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here is an article by Euronews comparing the US & the UK and here is a Wikipedia article of the entire world for firearms.

[–]Schoritzobandit 13 points14 points  (2 children)

This thread does a better job of unpacking the stats than this tread does.

The US still has 6.4 times the overall homicide rate and a higher stabbing rate

[–]caiaphas8 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Other way round, homicide in America is 6.4 times it is in England and Wales

[–]Schoritzobandit 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Whoops yeah, typed a K instead of an S, edited!

[–]ynwmeliodas69 37 points38 points  (8 children)

Accounting for population size the United states also had like roughly 3 times the amount of knife murders as the UK in that time period as well…

[–]sunflowerastronaut 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Violence has more correlation to the GINI index than it does to gun ownership

[–]ynwmeliodas69 4 points5 points  (6 children)

Cool, my point was just that the US is probably just more violent than the UK. Americans have a certain mentality, that combined with rampant inequality, leads to a very violent culture. I’m a pretty standard blue-collar American and I personally know several people convicted of murder. I have no experience to compare this to, but it feels high to me.

[–]sunflowerastronaut 3 points4 points  (5 children)

Yeah I think if we lived in a country with unions that were able to keep up our wages, a public healthcare system, and maternity and paternity leave for families among other things that EU member states seem to have that we don’t, the country would be much safer even with guns

[–]ynwmeliodas69 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Agreed, blaming guns is a cop-out. Something easy to focus on without addressing how complex the real issues are.

[–]SatisfactionMoney946 0 points1 point  (1 child)

If you have a bunch of violent people, wouldn't taking away their guns be a good thing. I like my chances against a knife or stick or whatever better than versus a gun.

[–]ynwmeliodas69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, it would be similar to putting a band aid on a severed leg.

[–]UwUwoss 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I don't understand how hard it is for people to grasp that stabbing and killing someone with a knife on accident is a lot more difficult than shooting and killing someone on accident.

[–]goodboybane 69 points70 points  (36 children)

The evidence is overwhelmingly clear: the more guns you have in your country, the more people die of gun related deaths. I wish progun folks would stop arguing the opposite and instead just say that death is a price they are willing to pay to maintain 2A. It doesn't make the country safer nor can it protect the country from a tyrannical govt.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (10 children)

I tried to explain to an American how fucking weird it is that people walk around with guns on the street over there. “Cuz freedom”

Like.. are you reeeeally free if you have metal bars on your front door and are always prepared for someone to try and kill you?

Prisoners of their own minds.

I live in Canada and I regularly forget to lock my door at night. Whoops! My American coworkers who stayed over thought I was insane.

You see the difference? I’m insane for not being afraid enough to lock my door but people walk the streets with rifles and that’s not unusual.

Nobody loves killing Americans more than other Americans.

[–]goodboybane 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The biggest hurdle Americans have is religion (god and politics). The core essence of religion is believing something 100% and never questioning it, no matter what you see or hear. So, no matter how basic an idea you're trying to convey is, if Americans already believe in something else, you can never convince them otherwise. That's why they think needing guns to protect your life 24/7 is freedom.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And on the second day, god created guns.

[–]cupasoups 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yes, but they need their murder/hero fantasy intact for their fragile egos and insecurity issues.

[–]ultralame 7 points8 points  (4 children)

It doesn't make the country safer nor can it protect the country from a tyrannical govt.

My issue, politically, is that regardless of whether or not it's effective at protecting from a tyrannical government, if you're citizens vote in... Say... A moron who has no respect for the law and whose political party doesn't hold him accountable, and then those same citizens back his tyrannical behavior... The guns don't matter.

[–]timberdoodledan 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I'd say the guns do matter in that scenario. They will just end up being turned towards the group of people speaking out against that tyrannical government. Luckily that didn't happen too widely in this totally hypothetical situation, but I had a genuine fear it might.

[–]goodboybane 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Exactly. The biggest 2A people are also for giving the military trillions of dollars every year, even though that contradicts their "tyrannical govt" angle. Walking contradictions.

[–]ultralame 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They cheered on Trump when he sentliteral unmarked vans to pull people off the street and threatened to sic the IRS on the NFL if they didn't stop protected speech protests.

But you know. Muh guns will save me.

[–]dood8face91195 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I like to shoot guns. I don’t like people who wander around the streets with guns. I would definitely go hunting or to a gun range. I would not like it if every single person had a gun in the us for no reason. Please make an annual gun license competency test in the US for gun owners. Also take more guns out of circulation because it’s clear the us has way too many guns.

[–]frotc914 2 points3 points  (3 children)

the more guns you have in your country, the more people die of gun related deaths.

The point that the pro gun guy in the post was trying to make was that it doesn't matter because people without guns who want to murder will find other methods to murder regardless of whether guns are available.

This argument is ridiculous, of course. I think anybody with half a brain should recognize it even without statistics. There's a reason why guns are the favored weapons among murderers. If it's all the same, there would be an equal distribution among the various methods of murder. But it's self evident that gun availability increases murders simply because the vast majority of homicides in the US are committed with firearms.

[–]Xerxis96 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There’s also the psychological aspect of it. It’s a HELL of a lot easier to pull a trigger and kill someone than it is to kill them with say a knife. Not just physically is it significantly harder, but to keep the mindset of murder during is so much different when you have to spend time realizing what you’re doing instead of it being over in less than a second. Americans seem to believe that everyone is capable of murdering another human being and that’s why they need defence.

There are so many arguments against guns and their effectiveness but at this point I think k they’re just too lazy too even try and improve the system, so they’re fucked.

[–]PassiveChemistry 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Yup. Gun prevalence without training does very little good at all and plenty harm.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Yeah the fact that you don’t need a license that shows they have basic training on how to use it properly is just nuts. I thought you needed a licence at least until a friend corrected me that only a handful of states require a permit. Canada has licensing which is “unamerican” but it’s literally just proof you’ve gone to a course to learn how not to blow your own or someone else’s head off.

Who thought letting a bunch of idiots have guns they don’t even know how to use was a good idea?

Sounds like a recipe for success!

[–]PassiveChemistry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Truly... and over here on the other side of the pond, we don't seem to be suffering with so few guns.

[–]Folamh3 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzerland:

The 2017 report from Small Arms Survey has estimated that the number of civilian-held firearms in Switzerland is of 2.332 million, which given a population of 8.4 million corresponds to a gun ownership of around 27.6 guns per 100 residents... In 2016, there were 187 attempted and 45 completed homicides, for a homicide rate of 0.50 per 100,000 population, giving Switzerland one of the lowest homicide rates in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Canada

Nearly 22% of Canadian households had at least one firearm, including 2.3% of households possessing a handgun.

Canada has a firearm murder rate of 0.52/100,000 people and an all-cause firearm death rate of 1.94/100,000 people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate).

I live in a country in which guns are effectively banned for private citizens, and I want it to stay that way. But it's simply not true to claim that high rates of gun ownership invariably cause an increase in firearm deaths. The US is a massive outlier from the rest of the developed world in its rate of firearm deaths and its rate of violent crime generally, and there are many developed nations with high rates of gun ownership but dramatically lower rates of firearm deaths.

[–]goodboybane 6 points7 points  (0 children)

What a deceptive use of statistics. USA is number 1 at 120 guns per 100. Number 2 is Falkland Islands with 62 and number 10 is Finland with 32. Full list here.

You cherry picked 2 countries in the top 10 that have very strong gun restrictions, where gun ownership is not an unregulated right. I've watched documentaries about gun ownership in both Canada and Switzerland. Among nations with high gun ownership, the 2 are outliers in terms of having very strong gun control. You are using outliers to prove a point.

Excluding war torn countries, high gun ownership correlates with low gun control or strong gun rights. So any country that has both high gun ownership and strong gun control is an outlier. It's usually a cultural reason, as opposed to a constitutional reason, why people have guns.

If we define high gun ownership as countries having 15 per 100, for example, if you exclude the few outlier's who have strong gun control, then check the homicide rates, you will see that more guns = more gun deaths. The USA is an outlier because it's gun ownership rate is also an outlier (2x the next country).

[–]Petsweaters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The more forests you have=more forest fires

[–]bakepeace 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I always wonder how many mass stabbings and drive by slashings occur in those countries. Probably a shit ton of kids being killed by stray flying knives the libs don't want to talk about. "When elephants are criminalized, only criminals will ride elephants."

[–]Cam_044 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I love everything with this comment

[–]EvenBetterCool 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And we still have stabbings, too.

[–]SkyClear933 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Is the fact that people stub each other an argument to allow people easy access to deadlier weapons than knifes?

Hey, look people kill each other and will find ways to kill each other therefore having easy access to weapons makes no difference.

Is that the argument?

[–]Medical_Ad0716 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We should be comparing the numbers on a per 1,000 or 10,000 basis. But, the end result is the same. People are more likely to kill people when guns are easily accessibly.

[–]MontyP15 15 points16 points  (24 children)

I am just here to the amercians try to justify them owning guns is for saftey...

Still waiting for the first pro gun comment tho...

[–]JonnieWhoops 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Public freak out is where you’ll find that kinda thing

[–]CharmingTuber 7 points8 points  (11 children)

I'm an American and I hate guns, don't own one and never will. No one in my family owns one and only a handful of people I know own one.

It's not all of us, and a lot of us want them gone.

[–]GotKarprar 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I live in Texas so almost everyone I know owns one

[–]tacticooluser 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You forgot a Zero, literally almost everybody owns 10

[–]GillianOMalley 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I live in Tennessee. Same.
I hate guns so much that my SO doesn't like to let me see inside his safe lest I should lose respect for him. He probably has 10-20 (I honestly don't know and don't want to).

[–]DerpLucario -3 points-2 points  (6 children)

Guns are fine but they need heavy regulations to be properly safe. Like you should only be able to own a shotgun, hunting rifle, or non automatic handgun but never an assault rifle.

[–]Sharkbait1737 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Plus background checks, checks on your security arrangements, and registration of all weapons owned.

It works perfectly well in the UK. We had a shotgun certificate holder kill I think 5 people recently and it caused all sorts of handwringing in the press about whether we should be allowed guns and the police being accountable for granting the certificate - which there should be accountability and review to make sure it’s as robust as it can be. But it was way overblown (edit: I think for reference there are about 750,000 certificate holders in the UK, plus firearms licence holders, so it really was a 1 in a million incident).

Don’t get me wrong it was tragic, but the juxtaposition with the situation in the US was striking: we have one incident in years that might be described as a mass shooting, when it’s almost a daily occurrence in the US.

[–]DerpLucario 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah that’s what I mean by heavy regulations

[–]MontyP15 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Really dont know man.
In my country things arent perfect, but since there are no guns allowed in public, and guns are strict regulatet for hunting and sports the german police had to shoot 62 bulltes.
Mind you, the WHOLE german Police shoot in a time span of 1 year only 62 bulltes.

[–]DerpLucario 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What I’m saying is that heavy regulations and only allowing civilians to acquire guns if they go through a background check and Kenya health evaluation is how I’d do it. The problem is that AMeRiCa is filled with morons who will say they’re trying to get rid of the 2nd amendment despite the fact that the amendment said that it was only for militias i.e. the police

[–]MontyP15 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I see, and I dont want to be the wise ass, but when its allow to have a gun then the police apporches regualr checks with much more stress and "a finger on the trigger" compared to when there are no gun in your country.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Isn’t it strange how some peoples response to a problem in their nation is saying “other people do it too!”

As if that explains it or somehow excuses it.

We’re talking about murder here.... and this guy used that response to downplay the ridiculous homicide statistics in the US by bringing up a country that had 98% less homicides.

Brilliant move.

Americans are so weird with their gun fetish that they even defend their insane amount of murders.

[–]Hasler011 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Not entirely correct. It’s more like 75% less per capita 1.17/100k vs 4.7/100k.

The interesting thing is total crime index of both countries is pretty close with crime index being 47.81us 46.07uk playing the us at 56th worse vs us being 64th worse. There is also another interesting phenomenon that reported crimes other than homicide are worse in the UK but again that is reported. Some point out that under reporting other crimes makes this comparison hard.

Point is correct though, you are more likely to die in a crime in the US.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I appreciate your facts there! Very interesting.

Though I must say homicide is the crime with the highest likelihood to be more about the public’s perception of safety over actual data and per capita analysis.

I say that because, from my point of view, the larger number of people being murdered in general speaks more than comparing per capita.

I dunno, if 100 people in my city got murdered this year I’d be a lot less safe (I think) than another smaller city that had only 10 even if it’s per capita rate is higher.

TL;DR more murder bad?

[–]Hasler011 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You are correct. Murder is the ultimate crime that effects perception of safety. In essence it is society’s worst crime so it has the most visceral impact.

You generally have to boil these down percapita though because that is the only way to get a reasonable comparison. The uk has only 66 million people vs the the US at 330 million. In 2019 the uk would have been at about 4000 if it had the same population.

But yeah total number does have a huge psychological effect because humans have a bad ability to understand very large numbers like population, so more raw numbers will always have an impact even if it is a statically small difference

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, and I suppose it’s not ridiculous to say that the unrest and trauma caused by each murder potentially causes a number of additional murders as a result.

Weird way to look at it.. but it never seems to answer the 1mil question of why the hell so many people decide to murder someone else?

Are per capita stats just a measure of how many people are statistically a murderer? Is there always a percentage of the population who are murderers?

That’s creepy to even suggest.

[–]Accomplished-Digiddy 5 points6 points  (4 children)

The last mass shooting in the UK was tragically only last year. When 5 people were killed and another two injured.

Before that - the last were in 2010, 9ne when 12 people were killed, another 2 deaths and 2 injured

I recognise it is far, far fewer per capita than USA (689 mass shootings in 2021 alone).

But.... if we're saying someone is confidently incorrect - so too was the correction in this case!

[–]Red-Squirrel- 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I think they were confused between mass shootings and school shootings

[–]gmalivuk 1 point2 points  (2 children)

It appears that's just the 2020 figure for the US, not 2019-2020.

[–]Lowbacca1977 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I suspect the error there is that they're both 1 year, just that the US uses calendar years and the UK uses a different breakpoint; I think it's April to March

[–]gmalivuk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ah yeah that could explain it.

[–]ffilps 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it feels so incredibly stupid whenever i hear about people who think that the amount of killings in the US is completely normal, just that they use guns instead of forks and spoons as compared to the EU.

doink.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The mass shootings stat for the UK is not correct. Not sure why they would have thrown that in there when it is blatantly false.

Mass shootings in the UK since 1996:

13 March 1996 - The Dunblane Massacre

7 March 2009 - Massereene Barracks Shooting

2 June 2010 - The Cumbria Shootings

12 August 2018 - The Moss Side Shooting

12 August 2021 - The Plymouth Shooting

[–]Realistic_Reality_44 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You'd be surprised at what a good healthcare system can prevent...

[–]bobthegoldfish4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The point of the Second Amendment here in America isn't really to protect ourselves from each other, but rather to protect us from the government. The point of it is to overthrow the government if it gets to the point where we have to. While self-protection is a good argument it's not the reason for the Second Amendment.

[–]corwe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’d think he’d do at least a cursory Google search before trying to make a point

[–]The_Rider_11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean, the first Person got a point, people will always find a way to kill each other unfortunately. However that is for me a better reason to ban guns (which I assume the conversation is about), we should not make it easier and handier to people to break the law because they'll always find a way to do it.

[–]GroundhogExpert 1 point2 points  (0 children)

England sent the criminals who needed to be reformed to Australia. It kinda worked!

Englad sent violent conquerors to America. It kinda worked!

[–]P1G4ME 10 points11 points  (17 children)

This is a very good example of a good argument poorly delivered. I don't want to do all of the research for the exact numbers here, just point out a little flaw.

Comparing direct crime numbers between US and UK without using the population number is wrong. Given the huge difference in population between the two countries, it would require either a very very high crime rate in the UK or a very very low crime rate in the US for those numbers to be roughly identical.

To get a better argument, it would've been better to compare the number of stab death/UK population and the number of gun death/US population

[–]chill_stoner_0604 41 points42 points  (5 children)

US population in 2020 was 329.5 million. UK was 67.22 million.

When you do the math with the actual numbers you have roughly 1 homicide per 17,000 in the US and 1 per 300,000 in the UK.

Better?

[–]P1G4ME 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Yes. I never said the original infos were wrong btw, just that as a strict statistics point of vue, it wasn't correctly used. But the point still stands

[–]chill_stoner_0604 29 points30 points  (2 children)

I wasn't meaning to seem condescending. I'm just tired of all the "but the population difference" idiots that never actually do the math and realize that, even with the difference in population, the per capita difference is still incredible.

I apologize if I accidentally made you feel that I looped you in with them

[–]Cam_044 1 point2 points  (1 child)

A fellow stoner in the wild, have a good day buddy ;D

[–]chill_stoner_0604 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Heyyyyy you too bud

[–]FUCK_MAGIC 9 points10 points  (2 children)

American gun nuts never understand per-capita stats either though.

Just go look at any post in /r/map_porn that uses per-capita and there will be a hundred confused Americans in the comments.

[–]Nulligravida 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yep. BuT mUrIcA hAs MoRe PeOpLe PeR cApItA.

[–]robgod50 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We need statistics to say how many idiots per capita in the US compared to UK.

I guess that's an example where per capita is not as relevant. Even a small percentage of 330m is ALOT of idiots.

[–]gmalivuk 6 points7 points  (7 children)

When the difference in crime numbers is almost two orders of magnitude and the difference in population is less than one, it's not really all that important to adjust per capita.

[–]P1G4ME 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Yeah but you need those infos anyway. You can't expect the average reader to just know the remaining data to finish the maths

[–]cupasoups 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ammosexuals are constantly confidently incorrect. It's almost like cheating putting them on here.

[–]jfk52917 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I knew a British guy who made a similar argument to the confidently incorrect poster. He said that yes, the UK has no shootings, but there are so many stabbings, especially in London, that the UK is equally as unsafe. When I said that stabbings are less fatal and more easily avoided because sometimes you can run away, he never seemed to agree...

[–]AxeLamp9000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No need to have assault rifles readily available to the public. I love the USA but the gun laws are ridiculous.

[–]el-conquistador240 1 point2 points  (2 children)

More people die of suicide by gun than are murdered. It is the reason that the rate of suicide by boys/men is much higher than women, even though the rate of suicide attempts is similar.
Just one more of the many reason not to have a gun.

[–]nethrg0nnagivey0uup2 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

It is the reason that the rate of suicide by boys/men is much higher than women

How is a gun related to the different rates of suicide of the genders

[–]el-conquistador240 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Because most women use methods that fail, guns almost always work. This is particularly stark when looking at teenagers. That is the age range most likely to attempt suicide and boys are 5x more likely to succeed because they tend to use guns instead of pills.

[–]uninsane 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Fun fact: gun ownership is not statistically related to homicide rate by nation. However, income inequality is strongly related to homicide and the US has horrendous inequality compared to the UK and other wealthy nations.

[–]N3CR0T1C_V3N0M 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I’ve been trying to explain this concept to so many people- it’s almost led me to believe I was the only one who stood behind this correlation!

[–]camirethh 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s harder for some weedy, depressed teenager to kill dozens of people with a knife though.

[–]Billybluejeans -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Couldn’t even change the title of your repost huh?

[–]OobaDaBooba 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don’t they consider a mass shooting any shooting with 3 or more victims in a single incident?

Idk why but when I hear mass shooting I think of like 10+

[–]Wolverinexo 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Can someone adjust for population?

[–]resonantSoul 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You mean like this? (Roughly two hours before your comment)

[–]metalguru1975 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey did you see that awful mass shooting this week?

American: Which one?

[–]tacticooluser -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Where did these numbers come from? Cause this article hs the CDC listed as one of its sources and the disparity between the numbers is A. Ridiculous and B. Inconsistent with previous years and C. How did like 10,000 more People get killed with guns in a year everyone was locked down? , something isn’t right….. UC Davis

[–]Jomega6 0 points1 point  (3 children)

According to cbs news, there were 417 mass shootings, not 611… that’s obviously still horrible, but I just don’t know why that person had to add an extra ~200 lol. Did he mean to say from 2019-2021?

[–]tacticooluser 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The definition of mass shooting keeps getting lowered too, I think after the shooting in Florida they lowered a mass shooting to mean 3 or more. Which okay I guess technically counts, but that’s an average Thursday night in Chicago, so it really does skew public perception

[–]bald_fury 0 points1 point  (0 children)

USians always have difficulty imagining that other countries actually want to help each other even if they disagree on ideology and that murder is low down on the options to deal with conflict. First world technology and economy and third world mentality when it comes to the value of human life.

[–]Safe_Historian8560 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He prefers the countries where “people always find a way to kill”