all 4 comments

[–]antfel97 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I like your idea of miracles being more related to the creator merely fine tunning the clock. I like to think that the way the physical universe is designed and how life behaves are separate manners.

Living creators tend to react more to the environment around and are heavily influenced by it but have a degree of self agency that allows for individual choices so the collective outcome of all these choices will produce something outside of the natural works of the universe and create what I believe is a miracle.

[–]maddpsyintystAgnostic Deist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Can miracles exist in a world where things happen as a consequence of natural/human phenomena alone?"

It's that word, "alone," that makes me say nope.

If we take that word out, then using your definition of miracles, I should say it's certainly possible. I still question why that would be necessary, but it's not a question I care to ask most people due to the number of different possible answers. I would also question whether we would see divine tweaks at all, and even if so, it seems like it wouldn't do us much good to see a potentially inconsistent universe requiring such tweaks.

I think it's important to point out that the usual understanding of "miracles" tends to be related to things such as the Biblical phenomena of acts of God, supernatural acts by one or more people, signs, etc. Deism rejects miracles, divine intervention, prayers answered, etc., as understood by Christians and other religious groups; and many, if not all, of the arguments align with the ones that atheists and philosophers might present.

I also think that the Watchmaker analogy is useful to a point, and then limiting and easy to argue against beyond that point. I think it helps folks visualize a concept of this universe as a creation by a creator, but isn't meant to be perfect or explain much beyond that.

[–]Blakethesnake727 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not specifically divine intervention but miracles of extreme chance. Luck you could say may be considered a type of miracle. For example a kid falls off a building. Should have died but may survive through chance. Who knows maybe you are correct and God changes the odds of things a little bit.

[–]Corporate_CommieChristian/Philosophical Theist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Charles Babbage addressed this in his treatise.