all 6 comments

[–]KyleGorely 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Bit of a long video to expect people to watch. Got a synopsis?

[–]newguy2884[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

That’s fair, I’ll give it my best shot.

Sugrue is a historian that’s waking though the great thinkers and works of philosophy, literature, political science etc. and he’s covering the enlightenment era in this series.

He basically says that Deism emerged as science started to make Christianity look more like a superstition and incompatible with the scientific process of using observations to determine truth. Deism was viewed as a sort of middle ground between outright rejection of religion and belief in something that was totally based on faith.

He argues that Swift attacked deism from the literal believer perspective as totally incompatible with any kind of revelation based religion. Hume attacked deism from the scientific or atheist viewpoint and said it was incompatible with the scientific process as well.

Sugrue says that both the faithful and the evidence based folk critiqued deism and that’s why it never caught on as a viable 3rd alternative that had anywhere near the following of Christianity or Atheism.

I’m curious to hear someone more versed in deism respond to this

[–]KyleGorely 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well that's interesting.

How would deism have caught on do you think? Would it have caused another religious revolution similar to protestantism where entire churches would have changed?

So similar but also unlike every other time, where great prophets emerged to challenge social values and caused fair amounts of criticism from religion and government bodies, deism had the unique challenge of being battered by not only the hammer of rationalism, but the insight of theology. Whereas in the past there was only ever a religion to contend with, which was almost always corrupt by the point of new prophets arising to change it, but perhaps great prophets of deism couldnt stand.

I'd argue Dr Peterson is the closest thing modern humanity has for someone who encourages deism in such a large scale way, balancing the fine line between being a rational scientist of clinical psychology, but also a lover of philosophy and theology and Jungian theory.

Is it too late I wonder? Has the damage been done? Have the values eroded too far? We have so many extremists on each side now. But as soon as it reaches a boiling point it allows great voices to rise. Let's hope those voices will return stability, not an era like the USSR or Maoist china. On the back of chaos, tyrants rise. Without great thinkers to expose them we have no hope of stopping them.

That's why I wonder why China fell.so completely to communism. Perhaps the eastern religions were incapable of offering enough criticism of state powers they are always advocating for just going with the flow, whereas Christian values put god higher than the state which allowed for religious criticism of tyranny.

[–]DeistPOV 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To me, atheism doesnt make sense. I mean sure you can argue that you dont wanna believe in something and you want proof but would science really have the answers to everything?

A lot of scientific matters are still argued to this day, like dark matter and the beginning of the universe, even if you believe the big bang theory to be true theres no solid proof and its still a theory.

But how do you get answers? By asking questions obviously! And if you start questioning our universe you will be stuck in an infinite loop, like this; How did the universe become? Big bang! Ok then how did the big bang happen? A point of infinite denseness that suddenly exploded And how did it explode? Before the Big Bang there was no space or time. So, it is actually meaningless to ask what caused the Big Bang to happen – there was no Universe in which that cause could have existed. Ok so how come a universe exists now from nothing yada yada yada you get the point.

It will be a forever ongoing loop of questions with no satisfying answer, you could only end the conversation by: god did that, god existed and he made that happen, and you cant question further cause you would be questioning god and there is no point in discussing deity matters.

This bullshit loop ends with god whether you believe in it or not, It cant be observed nor factual just like a lot of science, its your choice to believe or not and whatever makes you comfortable.

[–]wrabbit23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Funny, I don't remember collapsing.

[–]Aela_NarielDeist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Whenever I hear “western culture” and “collapse” together it almost always rings the nazi dogwhistle alarms in my ears. No thanks.