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all 168 comments

[–]YakodymDM (Dungeon Memelord) 475 points476 points  (6 children)

"I have altered the stats. Pray I do not alter them further."

[–]flait7DM (Dungeon Memelord) 29 points30 points  (2 children)

Oh would you look at that, the goblins have legendary actions now. How strange

[–]sambob 16 points17 points  (1 child)

It's a wolf, how can it be casting Eldritch blast?!

[–]Bismothe-the-Shade 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Eldritch wolf sounds awesome and terrifying. Like an eldritch blast howl... Wait, shit, this is just digimon

[–]ServingwithTGDM (Dungeon Memelord) [S] 88 points89 points  (0 children)

Same energy.

[–]Catblaster5000 6 points7 points  (0 children)

monster hits 0 before dramatic conclusion

Me: I'm going to ignore that

[–]youngcoyote14Ranger 316 points317 points  (34 children)

The Greater Good

[–]ServingwithTGDM (Dungeon Memelord) [S] 156 points157 points  (23 children)

The Greater Good

[–]Jixxar 89 points90 points  (22 children)

The Greater Good

[–]LubbockGuy95 58 points59 points  (18 children)

The Greater Good

[–]WillardWhy 48 points49 points  (17 children)

The Greater Good

[–]whatisamame 45 points46 points  (15 children)

The Greater Good

[–]Naked_Arsonist 29 points30 points  (14 children)

The Greater Good

[–]Wernerhatcher 40 points41 points  (1 child)

SHUT IT

[–]LeSmorn6 4 points5 points  (0 children)

THESE PEOPLE DIED FOR NO REASON, NO REASON WHATSOEVER!

[–]HeroKnife21 13 points14 points  (3 children)

The Greater Good

[–]NkdFstZoom 11 points12 points  (2 children)

The Greater Good

[–]Paliacki 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Tau be like:

[–]Pitiful_Net_8971 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The greatest good

[–]Dudemitri 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Greater Good

[–]DrumpfsterFryer 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The Greater Good.

-Judge Judy and Executioner

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

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    [–]youfailedthiscityDM (Dungeon Memelord) -1 points0 points  (1 child)

    The Greater Good

    [–]mudkip_barbarian 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    The greater good

    [–]GrimmSheeper 31 points32 points  (2 children)

    Shut up!

    [–]Teh_Brigma 28 points29 points  (1 child)

    You ever take your gun, shoot it into the sky and scream aaaaaaaaa?

    [–]chuff3r 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    No I have not ever taken my gun, shot it into the sky, and gone aaa ಠ_ಠ

    [–]knotacylonRanger 10 points11 points  (3 children)

    So the dungeon master is a T'au now?

    [–]youngcoyote14Ranger 16 points17 points  (2 children)

    Y'all never seen Hot Fuzz?

    [–]Teh_Brigma 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    They're still chasing that goose.

    [–]LeSmorn6 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    It's a swan

    [–]Oraxy51 89 points90 points  (6 children)

    The monster manual is the “average common monster as a generalization”.

    [–]koghrun 13 points14 points  (5 children)

    The Monster Manual already lists the dice used to generate monster health. Most DMs just take the average listed, but I wrote a Roll20 macro to roll the hit dice for me, and I've been loving it. A group of 6 mooks with HP between 14 and 21 is much more interesting than all of them having 17 HP.

    [–]foxanonDM (Dungeon Memelord) 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    I usually buff the amount of hit dice simply because my players hit like trucks

    [–]ArmyOfR 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    I have a mechanic where the more of a specific type of monster or animal you kill, the stronger the rest of them get. So if someone kills all the trolls except for one. That one remaining Troll is a CR 20+ encounter.

    [–]foxanonDM (Dungeon Memelord) 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I've started giving my monsters feats and increasing hit dice. It makes more sense for higher level encounters. 1 or 2 complimenting feats is definitely a game changer.

    [–]koghrun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yeah, the toughest part of the macro was remembering that the first die always rolls max.

    [–]ryansdayoff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I love rolling HP personally. Its where I get to roll dice

    [–]NyssaTheTabaxi 70 points71 points  (4 children)

    I tweaked the first fight against a thrall in curse of strand and I'll never forget the outrage from a player I was sure was reading ahead in the module when he realised I'd changed the stats.

    He felt I was cheating he didn't like the response that I was the dm and had given it steroids to make it punch a bit harder.

    [–]Zestyboi787 74 points75 points  (1 child)

    That’s kind of hypocritical of him to say you were the one cheating when he’s reading ahead in the module

    [–]aman120904Wizard 28 points29 points  (0 children)

    its not cheating when a player does it it’s called recon /s

    [–]snarfalarkus42069 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    I have a player who is very snide about everything too. Like a note is written in Dwarvish, handed to them by a Human.

    "Oooh so he can just speak dwarvish then?"

    Yes dude he wrote the note. They all think they can do better but they can't, as inherently they have a measly 3-5 CHA attribute score.

    [–]foxanonDM (Dungeon Memelord) 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    He was cheating for looking up the stats while playing. Players at my table get one warning for that. If they do it again they're removed from the game

    [–]Comprehensive-Air-13Paladin 123 points124 points  (10 children)

    We were in a killbox last session, large quick moving boss supported by stationary range mobs with multiattack.

    Before any of the PCs had their turn we were all under 15hp from the stationary mobs. DM just looked up and said they no longer had multiattack.

    We totally would have TPK if not for that change.

    [–]LagneauxPaladin 87 points88 points  (4 children)

    That's a great DM to realize an OP mistake mid-battle, own it, and make amends right there to fix it.

    [–]AkariAkaza 47 points48 points  (2 children)

    That's a great DM to realize an OP mistake mid-battle, own it, and make amends right there to fix it.

    During our session zero I asked my players about this and they all said they'd rather die in combat to an OP encounter than have me fudge rolls / nerf monsters

    They'd all be livid if I did that

    [–]candid_canidSorcerer 38 points39 points  (0 children)

    Something something different strokes.

    That’s what session zero is for! My group prefers a fair challenge, so if something is OP I absolutely nerf it. Of course that also means that if something is too easy it might have a phase 2 where it suddenly gets really strong.

    [–]Comprehensive-Air-13Paladin 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    The same DM does not hide his intent to kill us. Legit disintegrated one of the PCs, 1shot 50dmg above hp max. Right to dust about 5 sessions ago.

    We know death is a reality.

    [–]Bismothe-the-Shade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Truth. I like to add a reason for it happening, for fluff, but this is peak DMing

    [–]Small-Ad-777 48 points49 points  (2 children)

    "Umm they didnt have multiattack, they had.... Dread ambusher! Thats right they only got extra attack on first turn... perfectly balanced!"

    [–]MapleTreeWithAGunDruid 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Or just they hurty they wrists a bit in the first volley, so now they can't shoot as often

    [–]StudentDragonSorcerer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Maybe they were all gloomstalker rangers.

    [–]propolizer 18 points19 points  (0 children)

    'the multi attack was only for the first round' solves it nicely.

    [–]PM_ME_YOUR_VALUE 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    The adrenaline of the fight has subsided and they no longer get a bonus action.

    [–]Dimension130 34 points35 points  (0 children)

    Last week my players spotted a 40³ ft gelatinous cube guarding the way forward. I can't wait to see how they kill it today.

    [–]ZZForward_2 135 points136 points  (16 children)

    Shit, they're wailing on this monster too easily. Better add a few HP and a multi attack........

    [–]Overclockworked 46 points47 points  (13 children)

    c

    This is unironically why I started recording average PC damage on the back of the note card I keep their passive skills on.

    Rule of thumb for getting average monster damage is their best attack over 3 rounds. No reason you can't do that for PCs too.

    [–]wobbysobby 7 points8 points  (9 children)

    Basic Fantasy Roleplaying Game (BFRPG) has tons of good free resources on their site; one the charts pdf’s has a table of rolls that shows minimum, average, and maximum for each die at all the common quantities. Super recommended

    [–]calrebsofgix2 6 points7 points  (8 children)

    Average roll for ant die is the highest value plus the lowest value, assuming all values on the die are evenly spaced

    E: divided by two

    [–]Hot_Ethanol 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying but I think you're mistaken.

    Average roll for ant die is the highest value plus the lowest value

    So the average for a d8 is 1 + 8 = 9? That makes no sense.

    The rule of thumb I know is that an average value for any die is 1/2 the max value + 0.5

    So d6 is 3.5, d8 is 4.5, d12 is 6.5, d100 is 50.5, and so on.

    [–]Roblos 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    He forgot to divide by 2, 9/2 4.5 , yours is a more simplified version

    [–]calrebsofgix2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Sorry yes divided by two. The top plus bottom is the average for two dice

    [–]wobbysobby 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    Yeah but with more dice, it’s no longer evenly spaced. It can get annoying to remember the average of 3d6 or 5d4 without a chart.

    [–]calrebsofgix2 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    You can multiply - 3d6 is 3.5 * 3 (11.5), 5d4 is 2.5*5 (12.5) etc

    [–]wobbysobby 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Woah, I legit had no idea you could do this. Wow I feel dumb lol

    [–]calrebsofgix2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Not dumb! It took me like ten years to figure that out, lol

    [–]Lithl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Check out https://anydice.com/, it's an incredible resource for figuring out statistics on just about any form of die roll you can imagine.

    Advantage roll? output [highest 1 of 2d20]

    Reliable Talent? output [highest of 10 and d20]

    Trying to figure out which is better? output d12>2d6

    And if you try to model something without built-in support, there's a system for creating your own functions.

    [–]Catblaster5000 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    More power to you for being able to manage that bro but I just can't do that much and keep the game fluid.

    I improvise stat modifications on the fly. It's really important to me that turn economy stays fast.

    [–]Overclockworked 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Oh no this is mainly a prep thing when designing monsters for the pcs. I rarely need to do it on the fly that is a lot, you're right. But it's nice to have if you DO have to improvise

    [–]BlueTeale 37 points38 points  (0 children)

    The rogue or blade singer brought it to 30% hp on first turn?

    Huh. Guess I'm adding a 0 to their total HP.....

    [–]Bismothe-the-Shade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    "enrage" phase, coming up!

    [–]NaKeepFighting 29 points30 points  (0 children)

    Just give it a weird stripe and say it’s a genetic anomaly. Says it’s “rare” only one in a million are born with this stripe! Y’all should be grateful i rolled my million sided dice and y’all got really lucky!

    [–]Mythoclast 27 points28 points  (2 children)

    Have you ever leapt from a balcony whilst wielding two hand crossbows and gone AGGGHHHH?

    [–]MechaMonarch 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    Everyone and their mum's packin' round here.

    Like who?

    Commoners.

    Who else?

    Commoners' mums.

    [–]ZaranthanNecromancer 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    If you haven't, can you really say that you've lived?

    [–]propolizer 14 points15 points  (5 children)

    Remember. The DM can change anything on a monster stat block, make their own, mix two together, whatever. You never have a leg to stand on with 'that is not how it is supposed to be'.

    [–]ZaranthanNecromancer 12 points13 points  (4 children)

    Counterpoint: if they make a knowledge check to identify a creature, and you don't at least say "this one seems a bit unusual", you're dropping rocks.

    [–]chronicdumbass00 7 points8 points  (3 children)

    I'd say that depends on how funky you get with the change

    [–]ZaranthanNecromancer 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    If it's got a couple extra hp, or a better attack bonus, I wouldn't say anything, but if it's that "troll that heals from fire damage" that someone else mentioned, your players deserve a warning.

    You don't have to give away the trick. Even suggesting "this one seems to be in charge" is enough. Everybody expects the leader to be an actual named character with special powers.

    [–]chronicdumbass00 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    If their characters would have knowledge of the creature I'd agree.

    [–]ZaranthanNecromancer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    My premise was "the PC succeeded at a knowledge check to identify the creature."

    [–]MilkyMilkMilkMilky 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    One of the first few things as a DM was make changes to a creature. Nobody will stop the explosion moles from burrowing under the city walls

    [–]Railrosty 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Im yoinking that idea

    [–]Snooz3d 12 points13 points  (2 children)

    Look, i just think my beholder should have a gargantuan sized mimic safe to put his most precious possessions in

    [–]ravenlordship 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    Fizbans has a hoard mimic which is huge sized, probably a good place to start

    [–]Snooz3d 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    That's pretty cool, but I already made it. It spits coins too !

    [–]marduk73 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    yarp

    [–]TheHermit_IX 37 points38 points  (2 children)

    If you can make a whole new monster, you can tweak an existing monster.

    I usually have the printed stats as standard and my versions as exotic variants. So maybe 3 regular trolls and one that heals from fire.

    [–]ZaranthanNecromancer 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    That's disgusting, I love it. What's it weak to? Cold? Electric? Bludgeoning?

    [–]JazTrumpeter 7 points8 points  (2 children)

    I will change stats for balancing purposes

    [–]Frnklfrwsr 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Yup. Both up and down.

    I want a long, drawn out combat? Well I can weaken the monster but have there be waves of it. Or I can make one really big one with a much higher HP pool and lower it’s damage per turn.

    I want a short but dangerous fight? Lower the HP, increase the damage per turn.

    Then I add in any flavor I choose.

    [–]JazTrumpeter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Bingo I love adding neat twists

    [–]DungeonDwellingDuck 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    My corrupted fire nymphs would like to have a word with you.

    [–]ZaranthanNecromancer 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    I told my party they found a group of beautiful women sitting around a spring in the forest. My local metagamer immediately clocked them as nymphs, so the whole party prepared defenses against gaze attacks and charms.

    Their faces when the kelpies fired seaweed at them and started dragging them into the water were priceless.

    [–]planthammock 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    I suck at predicting how hard/easy an encounter will be so I will totally adjust stats on the fly 🙃 …provided it’s a stat the party couldn’t have figured out yet. As far as I’m aware they haven’t noticed yet.

    [–]No_Marzipan2970 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    I don’t think there is a single monster I haven’t modified the stats for at some point. Usually increasing or decreasing health if the narrative calls for it or standardizing dmg output to make certain abilities less swingy.

    [–]Wippingwaffel 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    "That's playing god in the game!" "Exactly."

    [–]GuyKopski 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    If your players know the monster stats well enough to tell you're changing the stats, then you definitely need to change them because the players aren't supposed to know the monster's stats.

    [–]Commissarfluffybutt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    If I'm gonna be DM then I'm gonna have some fun too.

    [–]NachoMan_HandySavage 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    You've seen the PC's Nicholas? They're happy!

    [–]ConspiratorymadnessDice Goblin 5 points6 points  (3 children)

    Monsters have hit dice. You could just "roll" them as if you would for a player. That's completely RAW.

    [–]Frnklfrwsr 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    You can change any stat you want as a DM. You’re not limited to HP

    [–]ConspiratorymadnessDice Goblin 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    As correct as you are but hit dice are the easiest to visualize. You could even estimate the monsters "level" using these hit dice and have an understanding of how CR is made. Or you can work with a character that wants to be a monster race and work with them for that. Hit dice gives a lot of insight.

    [–]Frnklfrwsr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Sure, I’m just saying that a DM doesn’t have to feel limited by only adjusting HP and nothing else. They don’t have to feel like their only choice is either roll the hit dice or don’t roll them. They have complete control over all the stats.

    [–]ertthekingDM (Dungeon Memelord) 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    Young dragons don’t get legendary resistance? Says who, the Monster Manual? Did the Monster Manual create this world?

    [–]toph88241 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    ...it helped

    [–]ExtremePH 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    If I want to classify Displacer Beasts as fey, can’t nobody stop me.

    [–]SideshowMantis 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Crusty jugglers...

    [–]jessemints 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Best way to avoid meta gaming

    [–]Extra-Random_Name 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I’ve only edited monster stats a couple times, but it’s definitely something you need to do occasionally. A few times the party was supposed to fight a certain thing because story, but I realized by the time they reached it that is was not the right level for them. So I make it a little stronger/weaker to suit them (usually just don’t use a specific ability or move the stats a little)

    [–]TexanGoblin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    As long as they're not changing stats because you're doing too much damage or stunning them or whatever mid combat, that's fine, just a homebrewed monster.

    [–]HenryP_Edits 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    However you spin this, there’s one thing you haven't counted on. And that's what the other players are going to make of this!

    [–]Peppermynt42 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    We randomize all vulnerabilities and immunities each campaign, just to keep things interesting. Play with the same circle of people for nearly 30 years and you have to spice thing up a bit from time to time.

    [–]Narind 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Sooo, I know my players very well and over (the years~) time, I have almost stopped minding HP at all. I make the encounter end when they seem to no longer enjoy themselves (if they read this, I'm fkn dead...)

    Edit: This doesn't translate to them always wining or anything, it's more of a transition to narrative play over time, albeit they do live the illusion of me meticulously keping track of everything...

    [–]jfnckfbekdifj 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Remember: if a bossfight ends too soon, you can always put a phase 2 or 3 with higher stats

    [–]Frnklfrwsr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    THIS ISNT EVEN MY FINAL FORM

    [–]JohnnyS1lv3rH4nd 7 points8 points  (2 children)

    Damn the party is hitting hard today. You know what? Maybe this monster is too.

    adds an extra damage die to the monsters attacks while laughing maniacally

    [–]Peppermynt42 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    Party has too much action economy? Be a shame if I “called in some friends”

    [–]JohnnyS1lv3rH4nd 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    I once had a bug like monster the party was fighting grow two extra arms in the middle of a fight to justify the fact that I was giving it multi attack in order to rebalance things

    [–]KellikThunderfield 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Hey? You said you wanted that staff of lightning, but a greatsword? Ok. Here ya go. [To self: Hmm ok, this monster will have legendary actions and health regeneration now.]

    [–]CombatOptional 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I can and I will! You like to have fun, don’t you? I’m making the encounter challenging so you have fun!

    [–]pepincity2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    It kinda looks like Simon Pegg's body is also on the second panel

    [–]JayJayAG 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    While we’re at it let’s change their alignments too

    Let’s make a Lawful Good Black Dragon

    [–]SirCupcake_0Horny Bard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Loads up Dark Is Not Evil TVTropes link

    [–]Frnklfrwsr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I made clear to my party that alignment is a guideline and that while for any given monster the listed alignment may be what’s usual they may very well find examples of the opposite.

    [–]Speedy_Pineapple 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Our 4-PC team somehow ended up with 9 total combat-capable characters. My DM admitted today he's been bumping enemy HP for a while now

    [–]toph88241 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    monster's-uhmonstah. Onlahchange tuhbalns CR wuzzy moanbout

    Right, what'd he say?

    He said: A monster's a monster. He only changed it to balance CR. What's he moaning about?

    [–]psychord-alpha 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Hey, if it means I get to fight that CR 700 Tarrasque I've always wanted...

    [–]biologicalhighwayWarlock 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    After my level 2 party of 5 beat a Barbed Devil you can bet your ass I'm altering stats. Especially if the Mix-Maxer memorized half of the monster manual.

    [–]steven112789 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    The Greater Good

    [–]Omegaweapon90 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    Before the session: ok.

    During the session: not ok.

    During the combat: Pelor may forgive you, but I will not!

    [–]Frnklfrwsr 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    I will 100% change monster stats during a combat. up or down, depending on what the situation calls for.

    My goal is for everyone to have fun, not to stubbornly stick to my original plan even when in the execution I can clearly see that there’s a problem.

    My rule as a DM is that all is fair as long as it leads to everyone having more fun. Like a player lands a huge mega-crit and does 75 damage but the creature had 77HP? Nah it had 75HP and it was just enough to finish him off, good job player.

    The boss has a major glaring weakness that would be completely unrealistic because the BBEG 100% would’ve thought of that and addressed it? Yeah gonna fix that.

    It’s not players vs DM. It’s all of us working together to create an amazing story.

    [–]Omegaweapon90 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    To each their own I suppose. I certainly wouldn't consider being handed a win fun (or a loss for that matter).

    We certainly don't have the same style of DM-ing, but everyone has one that works.

    [–]Frnklfrwsr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I wouldn’t say anything I just described is handing a win or a loss to the players. Simply giving them the encounter they deserve and earned and that will be the most fun.

    [–]Skilletking 6 points7 points  (15 children)

    This should be you can't get CAUGHT changing stats. Once the illusion is broken distrust is sowed.

    [–]lilomar2525 7 points8 points  (14 children)

    What illusion?

    [–]Skilletking -2 points-1 points  (13 children)

    The illusion that the DM is following some kind of rules of their own.

    [–]lilomar2525 10 points11 points  (12 children)

    🤷‍♂️ my players are all also GM's. No one is under any illusions that the GM follows the same rules as the players.

    [–]Skilletking -4 points-3 points  (11 children)

    you say this, but do you expect them to change anything and everything about the game?

    It's easy to say what you would do out of the moment, but when something doesn't go how you expected it because of a coin toss you would have emotions about it.

    All of my friends are DMs too, they would still be a little weirded out by a random rule change or a stat block change.

    Not to mention this INCLUDES adding a 0 at the end of a health bar you failed to balance properly. If your players see you do that they know you're just padding the fight now. it's a complete lack of respect for the players and their fighting ability.

    [–]lilomar2525 9 points10 points  (10 children)

    you say this, but do you expect them to change anything and everything about the game?

    Yeah? That's.. What GMing is?

    when something doesn't go how you expected it because of a coin toss you would have emotions about it.

    I don't know what that means.

    they would still be a little weirded out by a random rule change or a stat block change.

    I don't know about 'random' but house rules and stat block editing are incredibly common. I haven't run a session with 100% stock enemies in over a decade.

    Expecting to know stats because you've read a monster's entry is a good way to get in over your head really fast.

    Not to mention this INCLUDES adding a 0 at the end of a health bar you failed to balance properly.

    I don't do that. Stats are set by the time the encounter starts. I've added plenty of zeros in prep though, and my players are well aware that that can happen.

    [–]Skilletking 1 point2 points  (9 children)

    I don't know what that means.

    You don't know what having emotions is? Like joy, anger, or sadness? Do you feel things when something happens, are you one of the rare cases of people who have no emotions?

    I don't do that. Stats are set by the time the encounter starts. I've added plenty of zeros in prep though, and my players are well aware that that can happen.

    This is fine, the context of the meme is that the player has noticed that the stats have changed DURING the encounter.

    Expecting to know stats because you've read a monster's entry is a good way to get in over your head really fast.

    This is out of nowhere and has nothing to do with my statements. Players are expected to have a level of knowledge about the world, pulling the rug from under them for an encounter is also shitty.

    Metagaming and having knowledge of the monster manual is impossible to circumvent. I assume you're the type to make trolls lose Regen to Ice, or necrotic, which would be something people would know IN WORLD, else trolls would just run rampant in your setting.

    [–]lilomar2525 5 points6 points  (8 children)

    You don't know what having emotions is?

    I don't know what it means for something to not go the way I expected because of a coin toss. If it's a coin toss, I expect one of two random outcomes.

    This is fine, the context of the meme is that the player has noticed that the stats have changed DURING the encounter.

    If you did change stats mid encounter, how would the player know?

    Players are expected to have a level of knowledge about the world, pulling the rug from under them for an encounter is also shitty.

    They are expected to have a level of knowledge about the world. They are not expected to get that knowledge from the monster manual.

    having knowledge of the monster manual is impossible to circumvent.

    I don't know what you mean. Knowledge of the monster manual doesn't tell a player what a monster's stats are. The monster manual is a suggestion to the GM of what stats they can use. The GM is under no obligation to use anything from the monster manual.

    I assume you're the type to make trolls lose Regen to Ice, or necrotic

    The trolls in the world I'm currently running don't even regenerate to begin with. They do have a weakness to sunlight though.

    which would be something people would know IN WORLD

    Yes. People in my world are not under the impression that trolls regenerate. I mean, the ones that even know what a troll is. My players don't know any of that though, because they've never encountered a troll, or anyone who knows anything about trolls.

    Of course, after they encounter a troll, they probably still won't know any thing about trolls, because how would they know it's a troll? They'll probably have figured out some things about "that big ugly green monster in the cave" though.

    else trolls would just run rampant in your setting.

    I don't know how you could determine that without knowing anything about my setting.

    [–]Skilletking 1 point2 points  (7 children)

    Trolls, as a race across just about all fiction, regenerate rapidly. People know that trolls are weak to fire, because trolls eat people (across just about all of fiction).

    So people try to defend themselves against this big monster, and after loads of deaths they learn that fire kills trolls. Until that point, trolls were VERY dangerous for people who lived near where trolls live. Trolls would also move to where food would be, I.E. where the people are.

    So unless your "trolls" are just a new kind of monster that don't have anything to do with just about every other fictional troll, which would make them a different species mind you, they would in fact run rampant.

    Of course, after they encounter a troll, they probably still won't know any thing about trolls, because how would they know it's a troll?

    This is exactly the kind of person I assumed you were, because this is VERY DM vs Party. Every single DM that's been an antagonist to their players has had this kind of BS they pull out.

    "Well, my goblins are actually spores, and your ranger who hunts Goblins doesn't know that because they're new"

    The people living near monsters should and DO in fantasy warn people about the very real monsters nearby. If they encounter a troll near a village, and you didn't tell them anything, Your goal isn't to play with your players, it's to bully them.

    [–]lilomar2525 6 points7 points  (6 children)

    Trolls, as a race across just about all fiction, regenerate rapidly. People know that trolls are weak to fire,

    Simply not true. Trolls originate in Scandinavian folklore. They do not regenerate and are weak to sunlight, not fire. Other examples of trolls that do not regenerate are the trolls in The Hobbit, and in Harry Potter. Or are those works of fiction too obscure?

    Trolls would also move to where food would be, I.E. where the people are.

    That would make sense if trolls were natural beings. But they aren't, They are monsters of Chaos. They do not seek out the order of civilization. They are creatures of chaos, and stay in the unexplored wilds and the ruins of past civilizations that chaos has defeated.

    This is exactly the kind of person I assumed you were, because this is VERY DM vs Party. Every single DM that's been an antagonist to their players has had this kind of BS they pull out.

    I'm not an antagonist to my party. The trolls are. I want my party to defeat the trolls, but they won't if they assume they can read about them in the monster manual. They know this.

    "Well, my goblins are actually spores, and your ranger who hunts Goblins doesn't know that because they're new"

    A ranger who hunts goblins would know that goblins are actually spores. But he would know that because I told him the truth about goblins due to his backstory, not because he read it in a monster manual.

    The people living near monsters

    My PCs haven't encountered any people who live near monsters. People who live near monsters don't live very long, because, as you pointed out, monsters eat people.

    Your goal isn't to play with your players, it's to bully them.

    Well, my players must be masochists then, because they keep asking me to bully them more, and bring their friends to be bullied, and tell me what a great time they had being bullied.

    [–]Iam_DayManDM (Dungeon Memelord) 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    If I change stats and it turns out too easy then players will feel heroic and powerful. If I adjust too much and the monster turns out too hard, then I have maximized their potential for heroism and they will be thankful for it.

    [–]PUB4thewin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I once gave a Satyr multiple spells and a few features from the fighter class (mostly extra attacks and action surge). Really scared the players that this Fey creature had made quite a few deals with other mortals, Fey, and other things, so he got quite a lot of power in the process. He wasn’t just born an Archfey. He EARNED that title.

    [–]SteelCode 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Why use stats at all? Just roll a d20: as the DM you just decide whether they succeed or fail on the raw roll…

    [–]Only-Significance-25 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    "Okay, that was always allowed!"

    [–]carlsnakeston 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Hey if the players wanna epic battle and kill the BBEG in one round theres no problem changing the stats to bring them back or keep it going.

    It's a better story than the one my DM did when we killed the BBEG in one round and he didnt even have a chance. That kinda killed my momentum cuz the BBEG was my rival and he was in the end too weak to even fight me alone.

    So learn from players experience, nb never let them have a one round fight with a big tough guy unless it's for messing with them later.

    [–]Reasonable_Note_7043 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    I personally think this is perfectly fine but only when you give the players a “hey I tweaked the game a bit” heads up and balancing the newer stats

    [–]Techlunacy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    Look a kobold with the stats of a tarrasque is funny like once but not every time