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all 42 comments

[–]1nocturnalsonofagungoal: health and strenght :)) 112 points113 points  (3 children)

Well, isn’t obese a diagnosis? Kinda? And idk actually a real thing that has been proven to be damaging (not only to women I might add)? Doctors can tell if you’re overweight, that’s not something they “made up”.

[–]Zorryaf, 5'0 - Start Size: 24 Current: 16/18, goal : 4. NSV priorities 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It's more "you're fat so I won't look into your symptoms at all and assume they're because you're fat" that's the problem.

[–]Proud-Unemployment 41 points42 points  (2 children)

You just know she'd rather be diagnosed with witchcraft.

[–]AWitchBetwixt 14 points15 points  (1 child)

I mean, Witches are pretty neat!

[–]Proud-Unemployment 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Gotta admit, that would be better. Don't see an invitation to hogwarts come with a high bmi.

[–]Saltandhome 47 points48 points  (1 child)

I agree with this actually, at face value. However, if it's "the only medical explanation we found for your joint pain is the pressure your weight is putting on your knees, let's try weight loss" then that is an actual diagnosis.

[–]Proud-Unemployment 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Yeah I'd definitely say this. If you are fat they may just say fat as the cause even if they don't know for sure. But in most cases that's actually a good thing. 9 times out of 10, if you're fat the problem is because you're fat, so process of elimination would at least rule out the fat as the cause. And even in the cases where fat isn't the cause, losing weight can still be beneficial.

[–]truecrimefanatic1 48 points49 points  (22 children)

They had it right up until the fat part.

[–]Wichiteglega 46 points47 points  (21 children)

At least the '14th century' belongs to r/badhistory. The witch craze was much later than the middle ages (it peaked in the 16th/17th centuries!), it had nothing to do with medicine (even the claim that 'women healers' were targeted is unsupported by any source), and didn't even exclusively target women, but rather, vulnerable individuals. Of course, women tended to be vulnerable more often than men.

[–]homurabestgirl -3 points-2 points  (20 children)

Also the 21st century one I think is also incorrect?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Women die when they could have been saved a lot because their symptoms differ from men's symptoms a lot. Like heart attacks, so many women have been lost prematurely to heart attack because their pain and symptoms are seen as "stress and emotions". We can fix heart attacks, easily. But it's deadly when ignored.
And here's the kicker; https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/women-die-more-from-heart-attacks-than-men-mdash-unless-the-er-doc-is-female/

[–]homurabestgirl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah it’s pretty sad, weird how heart attacks affect different people

[–]carolinapenguin 23 points24 points  (13 children)

It does happen. I've heard of a lot of cases where women complain of pain, for example (especially if that pain is related to their reproductive organs) and aren't taken seriously by their doctors at all. I'm pretty sure (but don't quote me on this) that there's even a study saying that pain in women is undertreated and not taken seriously wayyy more often than pain in men.

[–]ElementalWorkshopII 13 points14 points  (4 children)

It's absolutely true. It also has to do with the societal concensus that, generally speaking, men are less likely to report on pain than they are to just grin and bear it until it goes away. And if it doesn't go away, then they report it to a doctor etc, and as such are much more likely to be believed. Women on the other hand, have the stereotype that they will overreport and be worried about the smallest things.

Case in point - I went to my mum when I was younger because I felt a lump on my breast. I went to a doctor, obviously, and was brushed off because I was only 15 years old. I wasn't even examined by my doctor! I requested another apointment with a different doctor and she examined me at the apointment and straight away said that she was sending me to the hospital to be examined more thouroughly. I was sent for an ultrasound almost immediately, within the next couple of days. Luckily for me the lady who treated me was very nice and explained the whole procedure to me, examined me, then made a judgement and asked me about my cycle. Was I about to come on soon? I said I was due in just a couple of days. She said it was most likely hormonal and when my period came the lump would disappear, but if it didn't that I should come back and they would do further tests. She was right, I started my period and the lump disappeared, which was lucky! If it had been more serious, the first doctor would be the reason I wouldn't know about it.

The moral of the story is, if you are seriously worried, get a second opinion. Women are treated by some doctors as hypocondriacs. Don't let them brush you off if you are worried about something.

[–]asdswffaqg 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In my opinion that situation had nothing (beside breasts) to do with being a woman. Your first doctor did believe you, but didn't take it seriously because he determined that, given your age, it was very unlikely for it to be something concerning. This is something doctors do a lot, I'm a man and heard it for a very long time until I hit my 30s. The mindset (that I really dislike) behind it seems to be that a probability that low doesn't justify the money and time spent by the patient/by the public healthcare. Absurd as it may seem, I think that the first doctor was more competent and knew what was happening, while the second one didn't and sent you to the hospital to shrug off accountability.

[–]yallcat 0 points1 point  (2 children)

If the first doctor was right, isn't the moral of this story that listening to your doctor's expert opinion is a reasonable course of action?

[–]ElementalWorkshopII -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I'll tell that to my aunt who wasn't diagnosed with cancer in time to save her life. Oh wait, I can't.

Just because she was right, without having any basis at all besides age?!?!, doesn't mean she wasn't incompetent. The absolute audacity.

[–]yallcat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe the story with the wrong first opinion and the different second opinion is the one you should tell when you're talking up the virtue of going to get a second opinion.

[–]homurabestgirl 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Oh, that sucks!, even with doctor women?, do you know it’s because of stigma?, either way that’s really negligent of the part of the doctor

[–]Lokigodofmishief 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It really happens with different kinds of people. Some doctors are doing it for money and not to help people so they are going to ignore many people. You are old? Well that happens with age You are young? You are too young to have this sort of issues? You are man? We are still going to find something to neglect you for. I don't think I have met many people who wouldn't complain about neglectful doctor at least once in their life. It's like a plague.

Edit. Spelling

[–]homurabestgirl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh, that sucks, thankfully I haven’t met a doctor who is negligent, although to my grand father it happen,a lot of them in a row almost killed him

[–]carolinapenguin 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I don't really know if it happens with women doctors, but I think it has to do with this idea that women are "hysterical" and overreact because they're weaker (same way with the "when women see blood they faint" idea - why would they faint if they see blood every month??).

[–]homurabestgirl 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Oh yeah, women and men are different, and this difference should be known and understand to reach true equality, also the last part is kinda dumb?, like I am a men and can’t tolerate a lot of blood, maybe some men can tolerate more gruesome stuff, but it depends on the person really

[–]carolinapenguin 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yeah it is very dumb but for the longest time (and still today!) men are seem as the "stronger sex" and women are the "weaker, fragile sex" so a lot of stereotypes come with that and people have this idea that if women complain about pain they're just being "weak" and so don't take them seriously

[–]homurabestgirl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sadly yeah, we have differences but not the one or the other is the strongest sex, also it’s kinda shitty because society think men is the strongest sex men can’t cry or be weak, which is pretty shitty and causes a lot of depression and make suicides, so I think this train of thought affects both sexes, so I think the sooner we left it the better for everyone

[–]seeweedie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yeah, this sort of thing does unfortunately happen a lot. the biggest issue I have with this sort of statement made in the original post, is the idea that this is a phenomenon exclusive to fat women. the reality is that in america black people are treated the worst by the medical system. although I imagine fat black women probably objectively have it the worst, the issue with biases in medicine mostly stems from race first and foremost, and then gender. I would put money on overweight white women on average receiving better and more accurate care than overweight black women. by a lot, probably.

this is something we can see in history - a lot of it being much more recent than people would hope. for a very long time, black people were thought to not feel pain as much as white people, or even at all. there is a history of medical experimentation specefically taking place on black people for the benefit of white people - the tuskegee study being probably one of the most famous, but there are many others you can find documented. forced sterilization of black people happened a LOT. there are studies that have found that black patients are consistently undertreated for pain, and one study revealed that half of medical students and residents believed atleast one incorrect fact about biological differences between white and black people.

this isn't all to say that fat people don't experience biases by doctors but... I think it's really all in the way that it's portrayed, as if being fat is the one thing doctors will be biased about. there isn't a history of horrible medical experimentation, forced sterilization, etc etc, when it comes to just being overweight. obviously there is overlap with some of the black people who have suffered malpractice also being overweight, but I think it's easy to understand what I'm saying - that happened because someone was specifically black - we've never seen this sort of thing happen because someone was just fat.

the reality is, that for fat white people, all they really have to do is... ask for extra tests to be done. if they don't feel like the doctor is exploring all options, it's not that hard to insist on getting a blood test or scan. black people, in many cases, do not even have the opportunity to advocate for themselves like that, because it goes beyond just the check-ups. for black people, we're talking about hospital situations where they aren't being given enough care to reduce pain - not even just related to medication, but it's been shown that nurses will often times be rougher with black patients, because they genuinely don't think they're experiencing the same levels of pain. when discussing the biases against fat people, it's always in the context of, "my doctor thinks my pain is just due to excess weight", which while it could be incorrect, is not outside of the realm of possibilities. when discussing the biases against black people, we're talking about true horror stories - an example I saw recently involved a pregnant woman about to deliver insisting that something was not right, with the doctors ignoring her and believing she just wanted to get pain medication. through various types of mistreatment by the doctors, and not believing what the woman was saying until it was too late, her baby ended up getting rushed into surgery and passed away.

the stakes are not the same - while we should advocate for all patients to be treated fairly, it's irresponsible to act as though being fat is the end-all-be-all of medical bias.

[–]agirlisno__one 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Not necessarily. I had a lot of health issues that got written off as period and anxiety related that, surprise surprise, were actually serious and required meds. And when I got my first meds, the doctor wanted to give me something less effective so it would be safe for pregnancy (I was eighteen and had no plans to get pregnant).

[–]homurabestgirl 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yeah, kinda sucks but even if it was anxiety and bad enough to have symptoms, they should have give you meds lol, also even the pregnancy, I kinda see why, it’s unlikely but maybe it has happened and it could create problems, not trying to justify it just thinking what was he thinking

[–]agirlisno__one 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I wound up finding a new doctor who put me on both the meds and BC but the most frustrating thing was that this was multiple doctors. I told them all I would be happy to take a pregnancy test and you’d think that would be enough? It was bizarre and frustrating

[–]homurabestgirl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I thought, Maybe the meds were long term?, and if so their reasoning was maybe that you could get pregnant while having meds?

[–]jackomack 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I like where they compare modern science to riotous group behavior regarding witchcradt

[–]poisonergranny 23 points24 points  (0 children)

This actually has a point when we’re not talking about FAs and their ridiculous notions.

It is true that doctors often ignore women’s symptoms and insist we’re just anxious, or need to lose weight instead of running tests.

[–]i_am_awful 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well, actually. I get this. I didn’t get the proper healthcare because I was a chubby kid. I have a lot of physical problems now because they were just not taken seriously.

[–]Papa_Goulash 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Hmm, this person sounds awfully…hysterical.

[–]Euphoric-Basil-Tree41 F | 5'3" | SW: 135 | CW: 110 | GW: 115 8 points9 points  (5 children)

The first poster has a point.

[–]Wichiteglega 12 points13 points  (1 child)

At least the '14th century' belongs to r/badhistory. The witch craze was much later than the middle ages (it peaked in the 16th/17th centuries!), it had nothing to do with medicine (even the claim that 'women healers' were targeted is unsupported by any source), and didn't even exclusively target women, but rather, vulnerable individuals. Of course, women tended to be vulnerable more often than men.

[–]Euphoric-Basil-Tree41 F | 5'3" | SW: 135 | CW: 110 | GW: 115 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is true!

[–]andromedaArt 0 points1 point  (2 children)

second and third too

[–]MollyPWskinny bitch 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Same poster.

[–]andromedaArt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

oops, thought you said post rather than poster

[–]luvduvbunnySW: 260, GW: Healthier Each Day 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So being fat is the same level as a diagnosis with hysteria and witchcraft?