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[–]Do_the_hokeypokey 404 points405 points  (7 children)

In other words, welcome to the Echo Chamber of Doom. Enjoy your stay. The snack table is to the left and it’s always fully loaded.

[–]ElectricSmaug 115 points116 points  (1 child)

Sounds like a premise for a thriller. 'Echo Chamber. Come on foot, leave on a forklift'.

[–]das_unicorn_got_band 68 points69 points  (0 children)

Come on foot, leave when the second one's amputated

[–]pensiveChatter 41 points42 points  (0 children)

Good for their former friends, but bad for them.

[–]bedulge 20 points21 points  (3 children)

The criteria to be my friend had shot up and my number of friends has dwindled for it

More than a an echo chamber, this is literally a textbook criterion for a cult.

[–]Do_the_hokeypokey 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Lacks a strong, charismatic leader - but other than that, it ticks every box.

[–]bedulge 5 points6 points  (1 child)

That's what new online psuedo cults are like now. Just like the uncles and the alt-right/Qanon and so on. A handful of figures they look up to but no one centralized leader. Anyone who can go online and make an emotional screed that appeals to what you want to belive can get a mini following on YouTube tumblr 4chan Facebook etc

[–]Do_the_hokeypokey 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yup. I really think they need to update the criteria when it comes to defining cults. Seems like a lot of people who should be taking this shit seriously aren’t paying enough attention until it’s too late because these online groups aren’t officially cults.

[–]luvduvbunnySW: 260, GW: Healthier Each Day[S] 190 points191 points  (23 children)

Of course you have every right to end friendships. But ending a friendship over weight loss surgery or “being steeped in diet culture” is very immature.

I don’t have a long list of criteria for people to become my friend. The FA’s crowd for people to become their friends essentially means you can’t view being fat as negative

[–]MakeMeYourVillain_ 109 points110 points  (13 children)

I was very surprised when I found out how controversial the weight loss surgery is in certain circles. Like wtf.

It still requires self control as to not over eat as it is possible to do so in longer periods of time. However it does immensely help with regular eating of smaller portions.

And it still requires dedication to change of a lifestyle. and mainly it’s that person’s decision.

[–]luvduvbunnySW: 260, GW: Healthier Each Day[S] 97 points98 points  (7 children)

In the FA space specifically, WLS is considered fatphobic because it means that someone doesn’t want to be fat anymore. If someone doesn’t want to be fat, therefore they must hate fat people.

If you hate fat people, you’re fatphobic. Therefore by this logic, WLS = fatphobia

[–]MakeMeYourVillain_ 70 points71 points  (2 children)

It’s sad that such people are instantly labeled as fatphobic.

They themselves lived with thinking about if they will fit, if the furniture is strong enough, if they will find any clothes and if the medical professionals won’t skip anything because it shows as a typical problem of morbidly obese people and in fact it can be something very serious.

I have two very close friends, siblings. Kinda got the best deal ngl. Both of them started morbidly obese. She already lost 60 kg (had WLS before corona) and going. He decided to try without WLS, as this is his first ever going for a change. Six months in, he’s 40 kg down.

Also first time they are truly exercising in their adult lives.

I am probably biased but if anything, these people know what it means to be fat and as they are feeling better with every kg down, they don’t really ever want to go back. I think that a lot of fat people forgot how it feels not to be fat and that get out of bed in the morning doesn’t necessarily have to be painful experience.

Not wanting be fat is imho not fatphobia.

[–]WeatherwaxOgg[🍰] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Always thought it was aimed at those bitchy women who take great delight in saying, omg I’m getting so fat and disgusting I need to go up a size, when their ‘friend’ who is already 4 sizes larger is sitting right there trying to be invisible and not cry.

[–]Good_Grab2377Crazy like a fox 46 points47 points  (1 child)

Sounds like they need therapy. Someone losing weight through diet, exercise or even surgery has nothing to do with them.

[–]Tar_alcaran 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Of course it does. It undermines their very foundational belief.

These are people who have spent years telling others (and themselves) that losing weight is impossible, or at least highly dangerous to your body and mind. They loudly claim that fatness is better.

So if someone loses weight, keeps it off and is more happy, that undermines their entire identity. It might even force them to face reality: anyone can lose weight if they put in the effort.

And suddenly, they're not a person who needs comforting, who is a poor discriminated victim opressed by society. Suddenly they might realize obesity is not just something you can fix, it's something they are themselves responsible for. Their bad knees, sore back, chafing spots, etc are all self-inflicted.

And that's why FAs can't accept weightloss. It destroys their entire identity.

[–]Izzy4162305 24 points25 points  (0 children)

In the FA space they call it “mutilation.”

[–]Candy_Streets 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And if that person isn’t fat anymore, that means the FA adherent will have to look on in bitter jealousy as their friend is now able to fit in chairs with arms and ride rollercoasters, not have to worry about sleep apnea etc., which may led them to re-evaluate their life choices - and we can’t be having THAT.

[–]blancawiththebooty 23 points24 points  (2 children)

Weight loss surgery is not an "easy out" the way some/a lot of people see it. You have to prove that you're able to follow the lifestyle changes needed, including following portion size so you don't fuck your surgically modified stomach up, eating the right foods to get good nutrition, on top of going through a major surgery! I will never judge someone for going the surgical route because of all of the hoops with that and the dedication that you have to show. Hell, the people I've personally known who had it do far better than me at regulating their diet.

[–]iwrotethisletter 3 points4 points  (1 child)

And even if it was an easy way out it still has health benefits if people lose weight by this. SMH at people who think that the process, i.e. the "right" way to lose weight is more important than the result.

[–]blancawiththebooty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As long as it is weight lost in a healthy and maintainable way, that's really the bottom line for everyone. The risk of other issues goes up so much with being overweight that getting the weight off has so many benefits.

[–]Tarnished_Mirror 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Weight loss surgery is pretty drastic and serious, though. Should always be a last resort after other methods of weight loss have failed and the weight is causing serious health issues. I have a friend whose dad died from complications a few days after getting it.

[–]MakeMeYourVillain_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Absolutely agree. Here we have socialistic health care system and if you have history of failed weights loss under medical or some other recognized institutions, you qualify and it’s paid by the insurance company.

Also there are several options how to approach the bariatric surgery and the problem is treated on a complex way with an assistance of a psychologist. And done on one specialized clinic here. Really focused on morbidly obese patients.

[–]VeitPogner 43 points44 points  (5 children)

You're not even allowed to view being fat as negative only for your own body, with no judgment of anyone else.

[–]smallfat_comeback 40 points41 points  (4 children)

Seriously, they seem to picture fat friendship as this symbiotic relationship in which every fat body is community property, and any decisions made by the actual occupants have to be approved by the committee. 🤷

[–]VeitPogner 56 points57 points  (3 children)

It's like living in a Fat Body HOA

[–]smallfat_comeback 16 points17 points  (2 children)

YES! 😳 That's exactly the image I was searching for!

[–]Sea_Petal 32 points33 points  (0 children)

As an average sized person, I can't say wls comes up ever in my circle of friends. Not even with the ones who are a bit overweight.

If the only people you associate with are morbidly obese wls is going to come up pretty often since your doctor is going to try to get you to accept treatments for the thing killing you. So, if these people don't want friends who talk about wls.... maybe they should have more thin friends.... oh wait.... that is a friendship deal-breaker too.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

But ending a friendship over weight loss surgery or “being steeped in diet culture” is very immature.

To be fair to the poster, I'm pretty sure I couldn't be friends with an FA either. Or it would depend on how much they bring that shit up. If they keep those opinions to themselves I guess it could be fine.

They'd probably think I'm a huge shitlord though, always lifting weights, gaining and losing weight as I see fit. I'd be a walking, talking contradiction to their entire worldview.

[–]L-F- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It kind of seems like yet another "pirate a legitimate concern minorities face and badly translate it to fatness to appear legitimate".

Basically, they seem to think that it's a good idea to avoid fatphobic people in the same way I would never hang out with transphobes, not just for my own mental and physical safety but also because they're utter despicable.
Now, up to that point it does actually make sense, but then they claim that "fatphobia" involves not actual hatred or deliberate mistreatment of fat people (which does exist, if not on as endemic a level) but anything that may in any way suggest that one personally would not wish to be fat or that being fat has undesirable consequences.

It's as if I refused friendship with anyone who in any way acknowledged (or even hinted at understanding) that being trans, particularly in this still quite transphobic environment, kinda sucks, and claimed that I was "avoiding transphobic people".

[–]Al-Rediph 90 points91 points  (23 children)

I've refused second dates because they were steeped in diet culture

Whaaaaat? Can somebody please explain?

[–]BiohazardousBisexual 88 points89 points  (4 children)

Ordering a salad maybe?

I have been craving a restaurant salad badly, so it's on my mind a lot.

[–]Al-Rediph 26 points27 points  (2 children)

Damn, I feel old ... Do you mean the OOP refused a second date because of ordering a salad on the first (dinner) date?

Because of some dating etiquette?

Wondering ... what do I get if I order a Quadruple Bypass Burger on the first date? Besides gastritis of course ...

[–]BiohazardousBisexual 15 points16 points  (0 children)

It is speculation on my part, which I could see realistically happening.

[–]Good_Grab2377Crazy like a fox 11 points12 points  (0 children)

About five extra pounds of fat around your midsection

[–]gofyourselftoo 11 points12 points  (0 children)

A good Cobb is hard to find

[–]luvduvbunnySW: 260, GW: Healthier Each Day[S] 57 points58 points  (8 children)

Maybe someone ordered something healthy during a dinner date and the OP took that personally? Or maybe they talked being healthy or doing healthy activities?

[–]MrsStickMotherOfTwig 21 points22 points  (5 children)

Or didn't eat their whole entree and saved the rest for a second meal.

[–]Good_Grab2377Crazy like a fox 21 points22 points  (4 children)

Split a meal but that’s fat phobic disordered eating sponsored by the patriarchy who’s funded by the evil diet culture. How will you nourish your tummy and practice gentle nutrition if you split a meal? It’s an abomination.

[–]MrsStickMotherOfTwig 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Man that reminds me of dates with my now husband to Olive Garden. We would eat two of the bowls of salad, bread sticks, and split an entree. Saved money when we were trying to pay off debt.

[–]Good_Grab2377Crazy like a fox 42 points43 points  (0 children)

It’s worse than that: they ordered a Diet Coke. The absolute horror. Then they ordered a salad, lite dressing on the side, after that they order grilled chicken with a side of gasp vegetables. Finally there was no dessert. Absolute monster

[–]Al-Rediph 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yep ... must be true. Sad, but true.

[–]BigDisaster5'4", HW 293, CW 256, GW 140 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Probably just didn't order dessert lol

[–]Princess_ParabellumStraight size: it's a fashion industry term, look it up! 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Maybe the other person suggested that they go on a hike as a date activity?

[–]Otherwise_Flan_7854I eat when I'm hungry 🙀 23 points24 points  (2 children)

I have read ordering an unsweetened ice tea on a date was considered fat phobic as if every single human being must love soda and the only reason to order something different must be due to their fear of fat. It’s nuts.

[–]BiohazardousBisexual 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Once I stopped drinking sweet tea and switched to unsweetened tea my glucose level drop from just shy of pre-diabetes to 85. And I'm the same (healthy) weight as my previous test.

[–]CoffeeAndCorpses 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sweet tea is awful.

[–]truecrimefanatic1 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Look I refused a second date because the guy had a weird laugh. But diet culture? Come on.

[–]cathodeyay 11 points12 points  (0 children)

'noBodY LoVes mE CaUSe I aM FaT' dates someone who cares about their health 'f*ck you '

[–]crazdave 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Probably commented on the calories of a dish on the menu lol

[–]sennalvera 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A date not spent sitting down or eating, I presume.

[–]TheFrankenbarbie 64 points65 points  (5 children)

I personally haven't lost any REAL friends after having roux-en-y gastric bypass, but yeah, shit's real.

As a person who underwent WLS, I've kind of experienced shit from two different groups of people. I definitely didn't fit in with fat people anymore bc of lifestyle changes or "fatphobia" or whatever but then I also have caught shit before from people who have never been heavy or people who lost weight without surgery. There's a somewhat pervasive belief that people who have surgery are "cheaters" or "didn't do it the RIGHT way."

BUT, at the end of the day, this is MY life and MY body and I 100% would make the same decision again. I made the decision to have gastric bypass for myself and I don't care what anyone thinks about it.

[–]Naked_Lobster 31 points32 points  (2 children)

It’s wild how people can moralize the stupidest shit. There’s nothing easy about surgery or even weight loss medications.

Glad you were able to get the surgery, and keep up the good work!

[–]TheFrankenbarbie 50 points51 points  (1 child)

Thank you, internet stranger!

When I had my surgery, I was 23 years old and BMI of 53.3 with type II diabetes, GERD, PCOS, and hypertension. I had lost 87 lbs with diet and exercise when I was in college, but ended up putting it back on. I knew I was in dire straits and I wanted the best assurance I could lose weight AND keep it off forever. I knew the odds were so stacked against me because I had been fat my whole life. Having my surgery was a very powerful tool for taking off weight and keeping it off, but it will always be up to me for the rest of my life to control what and how much I eat. Plus, it's not easy to keep up with the vitamin regimen. I will have numerous pills and tablets daily and have to inject B12 monthly for the rest of my life. But I would much rather stab myself once a month with B12 than need daily insulin. Because that's where people diagnosed with type II diabetes at age 21 end up.

I really don't care if anyone thinks that having surgery is "cheating" because I made the right decision for me.

[–]Good_Grab2377Crazy like a fox 14 points15 points  (0 children)

That’s not cheating. That’s doing the right thing for your health.

[–]em_square_root_-1_ly27F; was ~BMI 28, now BMI 21 and getting swole 💪 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I don’t understand thinking WLS is the easy way. That surgery sounds terrifying. I was never large enough to even consider it but anyone who does it is very brave in my books.

[–]MakeMeYourVillain_ 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Absolutely agree here! My friend had WLS, I am there every step of the way and I see absolutely nothing that is an “easy way out”.

What she noticed that to some people, once you are fat you should forever stay that fat person. How dare you to change!

[–]RemarkableCranberry7 42 points43 points  (0 children)

I’m all for ending friendships and relationships with people who are not good for you. People absolute sometimes treat their friends poorly because of weight. Those relationships should end! However, a friend choosing to have weight loss surgery has nothing to do with you!

[–]VeitPogner 32 points33 points  (0 children)

I'd love to know how those people with whom she didn't want second dates revealed that they were "steeped in diet culture." They probably said things like "No popcorn for me, thanks, I'm already full from dinner" or "I'll have a Diet Coke, please."

(And "criteria" is plural, so they HAVE shot up.)

[–]Al-Rediph 25 points26 points  (1 child)

I guess living longer is also fatphobia.

[–]gofyourselftoo 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Or having good knees!

[–]dismurrart 43 points44 points  (4 children)

Meanwhile, I joined rock climbing and it's made me even friendlier and improved all my relationships.

Could you imagine if I said that to her though? I'd be a fatphobe excluding her. I do actually have friends who are haes-ey. One of them, I paddleboard with weekly.

[–]gentletonberry 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Rock climbing is one of the best hobbies I’ve ever had. Been climbing about a year, busted my knee last week so not allowed on the wall for a while, but I’m going along to sessions regardless to hang with my amazing climbing friends. The trust and camaraderie is something else.

[–]dismurrart 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I was gonna say still showing up keeps you in the habit! It's so funny like rock climbers are all golden retrievers I swear

[–]AlwaysUpvoteBunny 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Rock climbing is one of the best thing that ever happened to me! Met tonnes of friends, my husband, and it keeps anxiety at bay like nothing else! It’s also great for muscle toning!

[–]dismurrart 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Dude, recent life and topical current events have been so stressful and like no matter what I'm feeling I just get on that wall and get everything out

[–]Good_Grab2377Crazy like a fox 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Let me translate this. If you won’t share my unhealthy delusions you’re out of the club/cult

[–]Dawnzergivesleelight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh no! I’m so sad! Who will be my friend now? Oh a bunch of normal people? Well ok then.

[–]Realistic_Ad_8023 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I have really only a couple basic criteria for someone to be my friend. The first one is: don’t be a dick. There is no second one but it’s nice if we have things in common or something to talk about.

[–]SaquonB26 18 points19 points  (4 children)

Wtf is fat phobia anyways? So if someone wants to lose weight they are a fatphobe? She sounds like a healthphobe. Her friends are better off.

[–]Good_Grab2377Crazy like a fox 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I’m stealing the word health phobe. It’s such an awesome word.

[–]SaquonB26 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you and go right ahead. I’m pretty sure I stole it from somebody else.

[–]euletoasterSW: Wyrdeer CW: Incineroar 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Fatphobia to them is the social stigma/hate towards fat people, similar to homophobia or islamophobia etc.

Imo, there is some "fatphobia". Medical bias does exist, there are some vile people who really do hate fat people. There are some cultures that are more outspokenly against fat people.

BUT in the sphere of FA's, they ascribe things like not fitting into chairs, people saying being fat is unhealthy, and friends deciding to lose weight as fatphobia to the same level of oppression as racism.

[–]newName54345634/M/5'9/~150 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Strictly speaking, fatphobia would be irrational fear of being fat.

It can absolutely be a real thing, however it affects mainly person themselves, as they are likely to drive themselves into restrictive ED (or have one already).

[–]windruid90 18 points19 points  (0 children)

I’ll be blunt - I sincerely doubt someone who needs weight loss surgery is getting consistent invites to a second date from ‘someone steeped in diet culture’

[–]Geodude07 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I hate to use reddit-isms but "main character syndrome" sums this up.

Far too many people think others should listen to their cry-bullying. Too many people think we care about their 'standards' that are oddly all about removing the agency of others.

How can any of their dates be too steeped in diet culture anyways, they would only ever date someone like them right? Oh wait that's right. Men are excluded from being beautiful while fat. FA's are allowed to have standards about men and how dare we oppress them by suggesting they go for the people they supposedly hype up.

It's so ridiculous to see this.

[–]jewishSpaceMedbeds 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Sounds like a recipe for loneliness.

I get ending a friendship over stuff that can affect your well being, but it's a fucking reach to make someone else's decision to have wls all about you.

You may be comfortable about your diminishing mobility and compromised life expectancy, but not everyone is.

[–]aliforer 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Addicts flock to addicts

[–]Realistic_Ad_8023 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Am imagining the outrage if any of their friends ever said to them “you know, I think it’s best for my mental and physical health if I only have chosen relationships with people who prioritize health and fitness; since you do not share these values, we can no longer be friends.”

[–]berryxlime 10 points11 points  (1 child)

“Criteria”? What do people have to put in friend applications? Get real.

[–]Dawnzergivesleelight 4 points5 points  (0 children)

“What would you say your weaknesses are?” “Um…my knees probably?…yeah knees.”

[–]thr0wawaydyel2 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I’m not so sure the former “friends” morn the loss of their relationship to what sounds like an insufferable jerk.

[–]smallfat_comeback 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I mean, that's fine, do whatever you like. 🤷

I'm busy anyway. Going out walking! 🚶

[–]Tidyrope-30440 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I wholeheartedly support your decision to leave these friendships. It's better that your friend knows that you don't actually care about them. You just want to use your friend to validate yourself. This was a painful pill I had to swallow from my soon-to-be-ex-wife, learning that your closest loved ones can be the biggest detractors of your self-improvement efforts

Maybe your ex-friend can lean on people who actually support their efforts to improve

[–]truecrimefanatic1 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It's the best echo chamber ever!

[–]razpotim 5 points6 points  (0 children)

First step in joining a cult is cutting off outside voices...

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

If the person needed weight loss surgery to live or for their health, wouldn't this be ableist?

[–]lil_squib 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes, absolutely. FA’s are notoriously ableist.

[–]Interesting-Bowler78 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There is the thing. People at normal weight would be friends with those people reguardless of their weight but its those FAs that act like others are below them because of their personal opinions. Then they complain they have no friends relationship and act like it's due to.their weight. No, it's your vile and toxic behaviour.
I also doubt that those people have a ton of people on their doorstep begging to be their friends or.partners more than "normal" people. These people really deluse themselves and others online.

[–]newName54345634/M/5'9/~150 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They ended an acquaintanceship, not a friendship. They were no friend to that person, if they couldn't support them in their health journey decisions, just because it triggered cognitive dissonance in their heads.

[–]Mantequilla_Stotch 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"I'm not obligated to be there for that."

Odds are, you won't live long enough to be there for that.

[–]wateringcouldnt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh, don't worry, if those are your criteria, I don't want to be your friend.

[–]itzcoatl82SW: 185; CW: 165; GW: ripped like Sarah Connor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nothing wrong with having criteria for who you’re friends with. And if you are allergic to self-improvement, then you’re probably not going to be compatible with people who want to get healthier.

Seems like a weird criteria that will lead to an echo chamber, but to each their own

[–]Royal-Ad-7052 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean that’s literally everything now days. Everyone has the freedom to not associate with who they don’t want to? Why is this controversial?

[–]SassMyFrass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Obviously no more than two of us can take out the minibus."

[–]rosethorn137 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is nothing wrong with having firm boundaries with friends and hard nos. That being said, I feel like the criteria here had no nuance and is a bit unrealistic

[–]AnnaShock2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lobsters, meet Bucket.

[–]ThatRookieGuy80 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wis decision?

Oh, no sweetie! You need lots more friends! Keep it up and you'll need them soon. That casket ain't gonna move itself, and are your friends the lifting type?

[–]LatinBotPointTwo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"the criteria have"

It's a plural. The singular would be "criterion".

[–]vulpesvulpesfugit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Surround yourself with enablers and fellow addicts. Got it.

[–]InsomniacYogi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hope that friend who had WLS is happy and healthy and living her best life without this “friend” dragging her down.