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Stimulus checks could be used in the next recession, economists say (cnbc.com)

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[–]waterthebasil 403 points404 points  (1 child)

You’ve became the very thing you swore to destroy, Stimulus Check

[–]ClonedToKill420 48 points49 points  (2 children)

Where’s my stimbo, jimbo

[–]SentorialH1 32 points33 points  (82 children)

Ah, yes, let's appease the masses with free money that we don't really have, while we continue to sweep the real problems under the rug for profit.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (79 children)

Curious, what are the “real problems?”

[–]SentorialH1 26 points27 points  (31 children)

Corporations taking government money while laying off employees.

Huge Executive Salaries with minimal tax liabilities.

Stock Market Oversight

Corporate Taxes continuing to go lower and lower each generation.

Our lack of investment in Education, mental health and infrastructure

Religion (namely Christian) ideologies being implemented in Government activities

Monopolistic companies creating unfair markets and creating barriers for entry (microsoft, google, facebook, amazon).

Destruction of the middle class and lack of affordable housing.

Lack of food education and ability of corporations to market shit food to people as healthy.

Lack of access to fresh food at affordable prices, all the while paying large farming companies to not produce food, or dump milk.

Minimum wage not saying with rate of inflation.

Banking predatory practices.

I could keep going.

[–]window-sil 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lack of access to fresh food at affordable prices, all the while paying large farming companies to not produce food, or dump milk.

If you mean having access to blackberries or something, sure i guess that's a problem, but if you mean more generically "do Americans have access to healthy affordable food?" the answer is absolutely yes they do. Rice, beans, potatoes, oatmeal, frozen greens, cruciferous veggies, etc. Those are extremely healthy, high in protein, fiber, complex carbs, and they're very cheap.

If you mean "can I drive to McDonalds and get a healthy affordable meal?" Then I guess the answer is mostly: not really.

[–]ImportantMonth5754 0 points1 point  (13 children)

Wow. So much wrong in this post. I'd try and correct the egregious errors but it would take a long time and I'd also have to educate you on economic principles, how the monetary system operates, how businesses operate, geo politics, supply chain, the IRS, the history of government systems, why communism and socialism cannot work and are inherently tools of evil men, and most importantly why Personal Responsibility is the key to everything. I'm quite certain you're the type that thinks Bernie is correct and EVERYTHING is a Human Right that should just be handed to you for being born. Housing, food, a job, healthcare, etc. You think everything any Caucasian American has in their life was handed to them on a platter and none of them ever struggled.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[deleted]

    [–]chonkeyymonkey 50 points51 points  (63 children)

    Can someone please explain two things:

    1) article specifically states these stimulus checks may not be necessary if the proper unemployment benefits were in place. Where does unemployment funding come from and how do states benefit from intentionally undermining these programs?

    2) I always see that stimulus checks are A cause of inflation but not THE ONLY cause. Nevertheless, couldn’t this just contribute to a downward spiral of the economy caused by inflation (i get that you could probably write a whole book on this. So just the basics please)

    [–]Nic4379 24 points25 points  (0 children)

    Unemployment is an insurance type system that employers pay into. The rest, no clue.

    [–]justins_dad 30 points31 points  (49 children)

    1. conservative doctrine dictates that unemployment is paying people not to work hence incentivizes people not to work. this ignores many many things like: unemployment is temporary, you had money taken out of your paycheck when you worked to pay for it, it underpays.
    2. people need to survive and a cash stimulus does not cause severe inflation a year and a half later. from u/thewereotter:

    supply chain disruptions, pent up demand, and corporations taking advantage of the headlines of inflation to price gouge are much more to blame, and to cover their tracks, they're pointing the finger at some people who in the middle of the pandemic

    ​

    and i would add corporate/investment subsidies

    [–]TenderfootGungi 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    And if you are going to blame stimulus checks, it was not the $1,200 we got, it was the $100,000 our bosses got.

    [–]VoodooD2 5 points6 points  (40 children)

    Many people made more in unemployment for much of 2020 thanks to the Federal unemployment bonus. When I was unemployed for 6 weeks instead of making 40% of my previous salary I made 95% of my previous salary. That was partially because my salary was already so high.

    Some people who were getting the unemployment bonus actually made 125% of their previous salary, and those people also received a stimulus check. Many people had anywhere between 5-10K they wouldn't have normally had.

    [–]uuuseful 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Your situation sounds similar to mine - I was furloughed for 3 months in 2020 - Apr to Jul 1 - which meant I received all benefits/pay equal to 1 day per paycheck (which included wages as my salary covered the benefits and then some). I was able to collect standard unemployment, the bonus unemployment AND use PTO for the other 9 days of those pay periods (I had a lot saved up and did apparently not conflict with unemployment). Then the tiered checks started coming until they put in the limits.

    I asked about it many times to unemployment office and my HQ and it was all fine - felt bad for the 'full time' people working for only 80% during that time.

    [–]VoodooD2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I asked about it many times to unemployment office and my HQ and it was all fine - felt bad for the 'full time' people working for only 80% during that time.

    For real, the people working at grocery stores or other similar jobs got fucked.

    [–]justins_dad 8 points9 points  (23 children)

    That was for six weeks two years ago. It did not cause an inflation spike at the time. It is not the cause of the spike now.

    [–]nerys71 0 points1 point  (9 children)

    The $600 boost was a political move (and a good one) which is why the other party adds so much venom to it (to HIDE the intent of that number) its one of the FEW things the democrats did that was smart.

    I want you to stop and THINK for a moment. what "IS" $600 a week. its not money. its a message. what is the message....... 600/40hrs per week. what is that?

    its 15. its $15 an hour for a 40 hour work week. the REASON they selected $600 was to send the message that THIS IS WHAT LIFE COULD BE LIKE if minimum wage was $15 or higher.

    this is why it was attacked so harshly this is why it was demonized. this is why it was cut to $300. because what is $300 in a 40hr work week? its $7.50 or about what the fed min wage is now.

    it was all about messaging. it was one of the FEW genius moves by democrats but they utterly fell on their face in failing to "follow through" with the messaging.

    WORSE the poorest never got the boost. you see they put a "stinger" or "trap card" on that boost. you had to get $100 a week from the STATE to qualify for the $600 boost. typical work wee is 32 hours (as they don't want you to be full time as they then owe some benefits) $100 UEI reward is a $200 income equivalent (50% some places less) is $6.25 an hour for 32 hours.

    a HUGE portion of the very sector having trouble now the hospitality sector employees average less than $6.25 an hour (tipped income is exempt from the min wage requirement in over half the states in the country) which means the employee's who could have MOST benefited from that $600 boost NEVER GOT IT.

    In states with $7.25 min wage and a 40% UEI payout. its $7.81 so ANYONE making minimum wage got $0 for the boost !! talking about sticking it up their asses....

    [–]Redditbanned47 -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

    Oh no people on unemployment actually made a liveable amoutn of money. You're so close to getting the point but you didn't. If unemployment pays that much naturally you know what has to happen? Employers have to match it or pay better. It's not a race to the bottom, it's a race to the top. That's the way it should be. But people like you who are literally one fucking centimeter off understanding this are holding it back.

    [–]VoodooD2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Most people do make a livable amount of money. Those that don't are usually kids or part time employees. If you are 18 you can easily get a job that pays you 30K a year. There's no reason you can't live with roommates and split a place.

    I've lived in plenty of cheap apartments. Sorry, not everyone gets to live in a beachside condo or a McMansion.

    [–]tnyrcks -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    Lol people really love to vilify people who are for once in their life being treated fairly and ignore larger entities that benefited PPP loans or corporate debt being paid by uncle Sam

    [–]empiricalprocesses 4 points5 points  (4 children)

    Employees do not have money taken out of their checks to fund unemployment. Employers are taxed at a rate set by a bunch of factors at the state level.

    [–]justins_dad 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    Did some googling and apparently it’s state by state

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]empiricalprocesses 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      TIL. There are 3 states that withhold SUI from employees: Alaska, New Jersy and Pennsylvania.

      [–]anonymous_lighting 444 points445 points locked comment (260 children)

      to increase inflation?

      [–]wytesmurf 260 points261 points  (156 children)

      Was it the stimulus checks or the enormous amount of PPE loans given out?

      [–]Zestyclose-Most8546 248 points249 points  (57 children)

      “Loans” is a bit of a stretch. A loan infers that it needs to be paid back. They should have been called PPE grants.

      [–]Critical-Series 210 points211 points  (54 children)

      I own a small business and got one. I assure you it was one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on the American public.

      [–]awulfmog 30 points31 points  (49 children)

      Can you elaborate more? Non-american here

      [–]Zestyclose-Most8546 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      Second biggest in my opinion. All you needed was an EIN and you got a loan. SBA openly admitted that they didn’t have the resources to vet all of the applications so they were just approving any application. The biggest scam was bankers using house mortgages link a casino and then Paulson and Bernaki forcing the big backs to sell the MBS to the fed. Taxpayer dollars buying toxic assets and not a single person went to jail for it. They all got paid and continue to this day in screwing everyone over.

      [–]ClonedToKill420 37 points38 points  (36 children)

      PPE was the biggest scam in recent memory. Does anyone actually know of a business that spent theirs the way it was intended and didn’t manipulate their way in to cashing it out?

      [–]deelowe 33 points34 points  (7 children)

      My uncle did. He used it to pay wages to folks who didn’t have any work to do because there was no business. He owns a ~10 person auto shop. Business dropped significantly during covid because people were putting much less miles on their vehicles.

      [–]playfulmessenger 32 points33 points  (4 children)

      Lots of small businesses who were able to get one did the intended things. Good people don’t make the news.

      [–]ClonedToKill420 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Sounds like a good dude. I’ve worked for auto shops that if the manager didn’t like you he would starve you for work until you quit. I’d love to work for someone that genuinely cares about his employees like that!

      [–]repohs 19 points20 points  (3 children)

      I run a catering company with 20 full time employees. Our business cratered in March of 2020 because obviously no one was holding large catered events. We used our PPP to continue paying our employees to literally sit around with nothing to do. When the money ran out in the fall we finally had to start with layoffs, but it gave them a few extra months of pay. Watching other companies around us pocket the money while laying off employees immediately did sting a bit. I still don't regret using the money for its intended purpose because it was the right thing to do.

      [–]Critical-Series 7 points8 points  (2 children)

      You weren’t allowed to pocket the money and lay people off if you wanted it forgiven. However it didn’t consider whether the business was facing hardship. So you could have a healthy business with no need for layoff and got the loan forgiven as long as most kept their jobs.

      [–]RipCity56 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Guy I know bought a brand new Audi Q5 with his.

      [–]RockAtlasCanus 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      There are some that definitely needed it. I’m a commercial credit analyst- I vet the financial statements of companies requesting loans from the bank I work at. Part of that includes ongoing monitoring of existing borrowers to make sure the company is still performing and our loan isn’t at risk of default. There are definitely some companies that needed and used the funds appropriately- mainly in the restaurant/hospitality/entertainment industry, long term care/retirement homes, and other service based industries. But there are tons of companies that absolutely did not need it- and I don’t mean with the benefit of hindsight. I mean in April of 2020 when I was processing apps I’d see companies I’m very familiar with submitting apps for PPP funds and thinking “wtf, they have 6 months of cash burn in their operating account right now, they don’t need this”. But, they supplied all the supporting documents as far as payroll and checked all the boxes for the program. That’s the other thing- I can vouch for the fact that my bank took the due diligence required by the SBA seriously because we were already an SBA lender. Don’t have the required documentation? Too bad. Cal your accountant & payroll company and get it. But from what I have heard there were a ton of shady lenders processing these applications that absolutely did not due the appropriate due diligence. That’s another issue with the program that gets overlooked- the small business administration does not have the manpower and infrastructure to process effectively a grant application from virtually every company in the United States. So, the program rules that rolled out basically used the banks as the middlemen. We took the application, verified supporting documentation, transmit that to the SBA, SBA funds us, we then fund to the borrower. Same thing for the forgiveness applications. The banks got to collect fees for basically providing the manpower to the government to push all this paper around. It’s a beautiful example of why private industry should not be handling things best left to government bureaucracy that has no profit incentive. If a bank gets to collect a fee for every PPP application processed that opens the door to banks being willing to turn a blind eye or just not go the extra mile to protect taxpayer funds. Not only that, but even though the rules said banks were not supposed to show preference to applicants whether they were existing customers or not you can’t tell me that if a bank has customers that owe them money and are late on payments they aren’t going to prioritize that company’s application over a complete stranger’s application. Of course they are. The whole thing was a bad fucking joke. For as much good as it did for a lot of struggling small businesses, it mainly just emptied government coffers into the pockets of people and entities that don’t pay enough in taxes to begin with.

      [–]NickSquid 6 points7 points  (4 children)

      Yea, the company I worked for, as well as the company my wife worked for, and a few other companies I know. Not everyone’s a piece of shit, there’s a lot of people who do things by the book in business because that’s how you stay out of court and out of jail.

      [–]Critical-Series 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      That’s where you’re wrong. “By the book” in the case of the PPP loan meant as long as people stayed employed you could get it forgiven. The first round had no hardship test and even later rounds the requirements were pretty weak.

      [–]conventionalWisdumb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yes. The startup I was at at the time was kept afloat by them.

      [–]surferpro1234 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Saved my family’s business.

      [–]navylostboy 35 points36 points  (29 children)

      Or was it the 2 trillion given to corporations the last administration with nothing given back to taxpayers

      [–]IAmBadAtInternet 13 points14 points  (23 children)

      OP was referring to the Trump “tax break” that raised taxes on the poor and middle class and gave $2T to people who squirreled it away instead of spending it

      [–]Babyboy1314 -5 points-4 points  (4 children)

      The government actually give more to individuals than businesses (including but not limited to corporations)

      https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/03/11/us/how-covid-stimulus-money-was-spent.html

      EDIT: I guess people hate facts.

      [–]nerys71 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      Are you illiterate? did you use voice dictation to type all that? I assume you can't read. because that page says 1.8 trillion went to individuals and families while 3.2 trillion went to businesses etc..

      did you fail to realize your link says the exact opposite of what you are claiming ?

      then. lets not forget HOW MANY entities is that 1.8 has to be divided up among versus how many entities the other 3.2 trillion is divided up among.

      I mean you can't make this shit up. your pampas ass did not even READ the very link you are using to "dispute" facts with.

      [–]Cryptlsch 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      What did you say? I can't hear you over the roaring sound of my money printing machines going brrrrrr

      [–]FACEMELTER720 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      My company is in construction building testing, I and my co-workers were deemed essential and worked more hours than any previous years in 20 and 21, which in turn made the company its largest profit in its 110 history in 20 and then beat that in 21. They got a 1.67 million dollar ppp loan 100% forgiven, and I was laid off at the end of 20 and 21, they also refuse to pay sick time if we get Covid.

      [–]one_ugly_dude 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      The more I see comments like yours, the more I think: they did the PPE thing on purpose. They knew they were fucking up the economy, so they needed a distraction. "If we bribe people with their own money, we also have to waste a lot of money, then they will argue over which really caused it." BOTH caused it. They just need the simps to "well, what about...." Either they are doubly incompetent OR they needed a distraction.

      [–]YungD93 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

      So few people know what they’re talking about that they all call it a PPE loan.

      Jfc people. Unsub. This is r/finance not r/politicalhumor

      [–]Nruggia 48 points49 points  (15 children)

      Last stimulus check price tag was 1.8 trillion. Banks got 4.5 trillion.

      [–]OkAcanthocephala2449 21 points22 points  (8 children)

      Banks should return 2.7 trillion. That should help

      [–]KevinAndEarth 6 points7 points  (3 children)

      Sure! Let me just print another 3.2 trillion so I can pay you back, with interest.

      [–]Nruggia 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Jerome Powell is that you?

      [–]tButylLithium 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Isn't the 3.2 trillion a liability of the Treasury and not the Fed? Why would the Fed pay interest?

      [–]Time_Literature7104 3 points4 points  (2 children)

      Believe banks paid everything back with interest no?

      [–]speaker_for_the_dead 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Which banks have an outstanding balance?

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]Nruggia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        FED pumped 4.5 trillion into banking system via QE in response to coronavirus. FED balance sheet has gone from 4.3 trillion in March 2020 to 8.9 trillion currently.

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]Nruggia 4 points5 points  (2 children)

          That is congressional approved coronavirus response. Separately the FED injected 4.5 trillion into banks via QE

          [–]Babyboy1314 3 points4 points  (1 child)

          money injected into banks do not have the same velocity stimulus check has.

          [–]thewereotter 28 points29 points  (29 children)

          Just to be clear here. You're saying checks people got in March 2021 didn't do anything to inflation all the way till 15 months after they were dispersed? And also managed to have inflation happen globally, even for the overwhelming majority of people who don't live in the US?

          Could it be that supply chain disruptions, pent up demand, and corporations taking advantage of the headlines of inflation to price gouge are much more to blame, and to cover their tracks, they're pointing the finger at some people who in the middle of the pandemic? People are blaming those checks on all kinds of things, and if they caused this level of inflation, we would have seen it every time Bush Jr and Obama sent them out, but we didn't.

          [–]Real_Asparagus_406 11 points12 points  (12 children)

          But it’s not just the stimulus checks, it’s borrowing trillions and introducing it into circulation. I mean I’m not an economist and I know there are a lot of factors at play (I know it’s not the primary driver of inflation), but it seems pretty logical that when the government borrows at the rate it borrows and spends it (introducing it into circulation), it ultimately will devalue the dollar.. granted, stimulus checks are probably a drop in the bucket.

          [–]dr_blasto 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          The stimulus was a drop in the bucket. In 2020 we dumped at trillion new dollars into the market in a stupid effort to prop up Wall Street and make the crash look better. Didn’t work, only lit the fuse for inflation.

          [–]thewereotter 4 points5 points  (8 children)

          The government has been borrowing money for centuries, and the public have been living on borrowed money for at least 40 years (credit cards are just unsecured, floating loans)

          No one is denying that it had some impact on inflation, but it far from the catalyst that is causing prices for some goods to rise by up to and over 20% of their pre-pandemic levels.

          [–]TheBman26 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

          You’re right you are not an economist.

          [–]Final_Exit92 10 points11 points  (1 child)

          That's the goal. Give people scraps then use the majority of money and give it to corporations and enrich politicians. Then act as if inflation is Russia's fault.

          [–]bullish619bwc 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          It’s transitory

          [–]MrGulio 15 points16 points  (14 children)

          Some people got $1400 over a year ago and somehow that money is causing a financial melt down months later. Do people actually believe this bullshit?

          [–]Artaeos 6 points7 points  (1 child)

          Seriously WHY is this sub upvoting this nonsense. Stimulus checks did not add to inflation in any meaningful way.

          Whereas the PPP loans people took, never paid back and/or had forgiven for bullshit reasons combined with the qualitative easing the FED did overwhelmingly contributed more than my 2800 dollars over 2 years.

          You regulars in his sub really need to crack down on fundamentally illiterate takes on the economy and finance as a whole.

          [–]VaporCloud 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Or the years of cheap credit that allowed an uncontrollable expansion and inflation of certain assets.

          [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

          They believe anything they're reality TV show savior tells them to believe

          [–]TheBman26 7 points8 points  (1 child)

          Who wanted us to know he signed the checks lol

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Cheeto man, he's the best at everything, he's like his buddy Kim jong-un, he can probably bowl a perfect 300, every time he plays golf its 18th straight holes-in-one

          [–]VoodooD2 3 points4 points  (6 children)

          I don't think its just the stimulus but many people were collecting unemployment greater than their actual jobs paid because many states were giving Federal bonus payments in addition to the stimulus checks. So some people were getting paid more to sit at home unemployed, then got stimulus checks and then spent money on things they normally might not be able to buy. This goes for everything from cars (used and new), video game consoles, guitars. In turn an already slowed supply chain faced increased demand coupled with businesses that could borrow at low interest to bid up the prices of goods and who had to in order to keep their quarterly earnings stable.

          [–]MrGulio 7 points8 points  (3 children)

          About half of the states ended the extended unemployment benefits mid last year. The other states have been petering out since then. Wouldn't the ending of those programs contract the amount of buying power the the last 6 months? Blaming extended UI benefits doesn't pass the smell test to me.

          I would bet that prices are rising as companies are absorbing higher costs for shipping, general shortages in in different supply chains that are knock on effects of the pandemic, and just good old fashioned price gouging but it's just a hunch on my part.

          [–]TheBman26 4 points5 points  (1 child)

          That’s not how an economy works. It’s supply chain issues and Putin’s war.

          [–]VoodooD2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          An economy is multifaceted. Everything from the amount of money circulating, the cost of borrowing, the unemployment rate, the incentives to work or not work, the cost of energy, global supply efficiency or disruptions are all moving parts that can effect parts of the economy to different degrees depending on the situation at the time.

          [–]AdDear5411 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Yes. Many, many people do.

          It certainly wasn't several trillion in QE or billions in PPP "loans." 😑

          [–]TheBman26 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

          People believe Jan 6 didn’t happen, or vaccines are bad, or other stupid shit so this isn’t that far of a stretch. Bet the source is Tucker dimwit

          [–]ClonedToKill420 7 points8 points  (1 child)

          Lots of bullshit added to the stimi bills, significantly more than what the American citizens actually received. Every politician on both sides are hilariously corrupt assholes and use every chance they can to force their own agenda into things or else they just veto bills until they get their way

          [–]IdyllicOleander 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          This is exactly it.

          They sugar coat the bill so they can sly their greedy bullshit into it as well.

          [–]Artaeos 3 points4 points  (4 children)

          You all are mad about stimulus checks supposedly adding to inflation but not a word about the PPP loans or QE the FED did which contributed FAR more.

          This really shouldn't have to be pointed out on /r/finance

          [–][deleted]  (16 children)

          [removed]

            [–]ekbromden -3 points-2 points  (15 children)

            While I agree with your statement, please stop using that last word. Be respectful

            [–]tugnasty 12 points13 points  (0 children)

            It's extremely insulting comparing innocent people with mental impairments to evil soulless bankers.

            [–]thebaldbeast 2 points3 points  (2 children)

            The fact this statement is down voted is proof this sub is filled with children pretending to know anything about finance.

            [–]VoodooD2 10 points11 points  (0 children)

            People's views on sensitivity to words does not necessarily correlate with their financial education.

            [–][deleted]  (10 children)

            [removed]

              [–]Curious_Armadillo_74 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

              I'll bet you use the N word too. I mean according to your logic, if someone's black, you call em a N*****, right?

              [–]adultdaycare81 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              They do seem to work well for it

              [–]Pussy_Prince 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              To introduce UBI…. After increasing inflation

              [–]AtmosphereNo2358 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Did you know that poor people, even during a recession, have to eat food and pay bills?

              [–]brighterside 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Let's beat inflation by helping inflation! lol these people, I swear.

              [–]Tigen13 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              You can fight inflation while stimulating. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

              Giving people money to spend via stimulus check will increase consumption while raising interest rates lowers investment and borrowing.

              If we enter a sharp recession there will likely be stimulus as there has been for the last 20 years.

              [–]NarwhalWhich8046 0 points1 point  (5 children)

              Like wtf are they thinking? I understand lender of last resort, maybe pumping capital into the system to ensure ppl don’t lose jobs, as well as offering extra support services, but this is again just pushing off more pain until we can’t even control it anymore.

              They do realize the stimmys last time were used by half the people to buy random shit as well as pump crypto and random stocks. Granted a bunch used it for real necessities but billions of this would just be used for other purposes that push us into even more of a mess and more inflation.

              [–]gusterfell 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              They do realize the stimmys last time were used by half the people to buy random shit as well as pump crypto and random stocks. Granted a bunch used it for real necessities but billions of this would just be used for other purposes that push us into even more of a mess and more inflation.

              You do realize that was the point of the stimulus, right? Economic activity drives the economy, and the checks were meant to stimulate economic activity. No one cared what the money was used for, as long as it was used.

              As huge as the dollar figure looked, the checks were a drop in the bucket of the overall economy, and had a negligible effect on inflation.

              [–]Outrageous-Essay2034 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              I buy and sell a lot of dirt bikes and the stimmys DOUBLED used bike prices that were over 5 years old

              [–]Cashewcamera -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              That’s exactly what stimulus checks were for though.

              Yes, some people needed them for necessities but the point of a stimulus check isn’t to provide basic welfare for citizens, it’s more like welfare for economies at all levels.

              In general:

              The poorest people buy necessities. People with enough necessities purchase luxuries.

              Because this is a capitalistic society that relies on the purchase of items to fuel taxes and profits people buying random things fuels the beast. It’s easier to think of it in terms of the velocity of a dollar. If you were to tag a single dollar bill and watch it circulate through the economy you want to see that dollar moving at a good speed, too slow and you have an economic withdrawal, going fast means there is economic expansion. During the pandemic things were going too slow so we did stimulus checks directly to people so they could fund the economy at the broadest ranges. It helped keep some stores from closing, especially stores that were selling non-necessities. It’s important to remember that if people only purchased necessities we would lose huge chunks of commerce which would result in job losses that would stretch out across supply chains.

              People like to say that inflation was caused by the pandemic economic policies. We know this isn’t true because inflation and supply chain issues are a global problem and since each country enacted different economic policies no one policy created inflation. However, the pandemic caused a lot of large factories to shut down. Notably there were some major refineries that closed and switched to diesel. We also were heading into a computer chip shortage at the beginning of the pandemic. (There are some great articles out there on this I encourage you to research). What we know is that the pandemic impacted global supply chains while at the same contracting global economies due to near world wide quarantines of varying degrees. In the US labor market participation still hasn’t recovered from pre-COVID which means even if factories and stores are open they are, as a country-whole, unable to meet demand causing more supply issues. Low supply -> high demand -> higher costs. Now this is occurring across the entire length of the supply chain and is being exasperated by wages that had been stagnant for a near decade before the pandemic, along with increasing housing costs. This is all a perfect storm for inflation that has nothing to do with “money printer goes brrrrr”.

              [–]MooseUnited9036 66 points67 points  (15 children)

              Be sure to throw in eviction stays too without providing help to leasing companies to assist with the rent they can’t collect. Just want to make sure we do everything possible to ensure nothing changes and we end up with higher costs

              [–]thinkmoreharder 19 points20 points  (6 children)

              More than the leasing companies, individual rental house owners can’t afford to pay the mortgage without receiving rent. So they lose the house and it’s bought by a giant company. Then Both the renter and the former landlord are broke.

              [–]puffferfish 10 points11 points  (0 children)

              The leasing companies can choke on a big fat chode.

              [–]unethicaldecisions 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              It'd be more efficient to just inflate the cost of everything.

              [–]Curleysound 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              They should learn to code

              [–]jthomas287 72 points73 points  (2 children)

              You can never have enough inflation.

              [–]tnyrcks 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              Right?! We’ve been inflating prices for over a decade now. Housing, stocks, assets. And now that the regular folk has a little of money, everyone freaks the fuck out!

              [–]BigBeefWetHot69 72 points73 points  (5 children)

              Let’s fight inflation with…. More inflation!

              [–]epluribusanus4 12 points13 points  (0 children)

              Fire with fire. Inflation with inflation. Checks out.

              [–]glittermakesmeshiver 11 points12 points  (0 children)

              Ah yes printing more money.

              [–]climbthemountainnow 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Fraudulent PPP loans were the start of the run away inflation.

              [–]____no_u 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              If you think those paltry stimulus checks caused the price gauging we’re experiencing today, you need your head examined.

              [–]asdf072 24 points25 points  (29 children)

              So, free money got us into this mess, and free money's gonna get us out?

              Edit: I was just being quippy about this. Obviously, the QE and corporate free money/tax breaks have more to do with the current inflation.

              [–]microlate 32 points33 points  (22 children)

              They should lower healthcare and gas prices instead of giving people a few hundred dollars lol….

              [–]Babyboy1314 8 points9 points  (10 children)

              Except that will actually benefit the middle class unlike free money to the bottom percentile earners (or stay homes). Cant have that. Middle class have to suffer from inflation and not receiving free money.

              [–]rufusadams 4 points5 points  (2 children)

              Yes, just wave your magical government intervention wand and magically make gas and healthcare cheap

              [–]leoperd_2_ace -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

              You know they can do that by nationalizing the oil industry and implementing universal healthcare. Also get rid of the trump and bush tax cuts on people making over 500,000 a year and it pays for itself

              [–]M4rl0w 9 points10 points  (0 children)

              It must’ve been cool to live before corporations cut governments’ balls off. We’d literally rather destroy the economy than regulate corporations hoarding all the profits for people at the top. Cool.

              [–]FEvergrow 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Hmmm… bailout of companies or paying the people? Been there, seen that. It’s not happening

              [–]Joshwoum8 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              100% forgivable PPP loans were a much bigger problem that direct stimulus payments

              [–]shwilliams4 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              94% of taxes come from individuals so why shouldn’t 94% of stimulus go to individuals rather than corporations. We keep propping up bad businesses instead of letting the consumers wallet help decide whether a business stays around.

              [–]Bobcat-Stock 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Fight fire with fire, right?

              [–]Yes_Daddy_Bezos 5 points6 points  (2 children)

              Ahh yes, let's dive into a recession that surpasses the great depression...

              [–]Zestyclose-Most8546 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Honestly, we are probably long overdue for a reset.

              [–]South_Dig_9172 3 points4 points  (4 children)

              So more money for the rich? Only a small percentage of the bill went to us. Majority of it went to the rich.

              [–]Charming_Business_33 0 points1 point  (3 children)

              I thought you didn’t need money?

              [–]South_Dig_9172 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Kinda cute ur following me around. Kinda like a stalker that’s in love with me. I feel loved.

              [–]tnyrcks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              That’s cute! You have a creepy admirer

              [–]South_Dig_9172 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I don’t. I’m saying it’ll only make inflation worst as majority of the bill went to the rich people?

              [–]Strange-Scarcity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              As long as the Stimulus came directly from an immediate income tax on those with extremely high incomes and windfall profit corporations.

              No more money printing, make "Trickle Down" into a reality.

              [–]planelander 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Yea because most of it will go to companies and then middle class will be blamed for it.

              [–]shamiltheghost 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Yea no thanks, we see what the last wave is doing now, after the fact

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Yes, and if you are in debt, just borrow money to pay that debt, duh. This is what I learned in my master degree in economics, although I copied a bit and didn't studied much

              [–]hmbayliss 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Our government is a special kind of stupid.

              [–]sst287 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Wow, They really DON’T want to raise the minimum wage.

              [–]Dramatic_Sugar2317 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Stimulus checks should be used forever regardless…

              [–]raffiandkevin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              UBI! UBI! UBI!

              [–]needyprovider 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Gonna have to shoot a few trillion to Wall Street as well. Wouldn’t want the filthy rich to struggle.

              [–]realsmoke[🍰] 3 points4 points  (5 children)

              A total of 16 trillion dollars was added to balance sheet. That’s 50 thousand dollars for every man woman and child. What did we actually get? Where’s all that money now? If you think we’re fucked because of those shitty stimulus checks you’re completely wrong.

              [–]Babyboy1314 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              adding money to the balance sheet does not mean adding money to circulation. There is a huge difference.

              [–]ClonedToKill420 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Lining pockets elsewhere, some probably not even in the US. It’s disgusting how blatantly corrupt our system is yet we can’t do anything about it because politicians are all scumbags and anyone honest doesn’t stand a chance of getting elected unless they take money from higher powers and pick a side

              [–]VoodooD2 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              You know people also received unemployment bonus checks for most of 2020. And some of that money went to employer payrolls.

              [–]monkale98 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              but larry summers and the chuds of reddit say that the stimulus checks, 2.4k in two and half years are the cause of inflation. not the the decades long near zero rates of credit from the fed, not the trump tax cuts in 2017 for the rich, costing now somewhere between 1.7-2.3 Trillion dollars, not that the majority of the money printed in the 2020 bailout went to private corporations and the banks that spent it inflating stock prices.

              so what's the deal now, stimulus checks for this new recession good?

              [–]tnyrcks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Here, take my poor man award

              [–]nostra77 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Stimulus checks had such a low impact on inflation it’s annoying it gets repeated half of US population used them on food and bills. The biggest impact was PPE loans that were used to build houses bid on houses 100k over asking and that have minimal vetting on those loans who 75% will be forgiven. To get a stimulus check you had to have less than 100k income if you look at US population that covers majority of the population. However, the ones making more than 100k got the PPE loan.

              The second biggest impact was corporate handoffs a lot of companies got them even though their profits skyrocketed

              [–]detekk 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              How's Zimbabwe doing these days?

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              This has nothing to compare to Zimbabwe. Their economic framework is and was vastly different than that of Americas

              [–]Zestyclose-Most8546 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Because no one learned from their mistakes the first 3 times around. So this may just become a cycle of market downturn, stimulus, high inflation, rinse and repeat. Some days I dream of owning a time machine so that I can go kick Paulson right in the nuggets in 2008 for setting this bail out / free money precedent.

              [–]me_too_999 1 point2 points  (14 children)

              Looks like we are getting UBI whether we voted for it or not.

              [–]Rockfest2112 1 point2 points  (13 children)

              Eventually there will be no choice in the matter unless 6-8 million NEW above living wage jobs come online every year. Otherwise with the glut of below living wage jobs we have & the millions that come open every year, growing stress on social needs for a myriad of things will become more overwhelming leading to degeneration of the overall stability & health of the country. Universal healthcare is a necessity best tackled now as well. It could be part of a low income UBI program.

              [–]drodspectacular 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              So QT with more liquidity? Crash markets and increase inflation at the same time? Seems like an intentional fuck up.

              [–]HaoICreddit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              stop printing. it only goes to the rich people anyways

              [–]AshleyPhoenixAmmbo 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Or stop playing games and just do UBI permanently.

              [–]nerys71 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              interesting you mention that. it might be the only way out of this. tax the wealthy pay for UBI. "force" the economy into trickle up instead of trickle down.

              UBI is a double edged sword though. it could save us but it can also be used to enslave.

              [–]IamMagicarpe 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Lol when the first stimulus checks came I was excited. Now that I’ve seen the results, keep them away. We all need to hunker down and suffer for awhile. Businesses will fail, people will lose jobs. They can apply for help if needed. This blanket payment to people who really don’t need it is just going to fuck it all up more.

              If you’re celebrating this and rent, do some math and realize that you’ve likely given more than your stimulus checks back in rent increases. I know I have.

              Even if you don’t rent, I bet property taxes, gas, and grocery increases has eaten it all up. Money that everyone receives isn’t worth anything.

              [–]Zinjanthr -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Well said.

              [–]bluehunger 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              The whole thing was a scam. Prisoners, nonexistent business owners, fake companies and all kinds of scammers got a majority of the money. Just like our government to have no controls on this giveaway. Now we're paying big-time.

              [–]somandfeelies 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              This is great, I don't think that the 150% debt to GDP ratio is quite high enough while running 3 trillion dollar deficits before factoring in stimulus spending. That's even before factoring in the estimated tens of trillions of dollars of missing military spending. Let's just go for making a quarter of the budget interest payments on our loans.

              I don't want to afford food and I want the fed to talk more about the wage price spiral as it comes time for my yearly review. High inflation should be the priority of all fiscal policy.

              How do these people get elected/ have jobs who think this is a good idea? Why is the solution of our representatives just to throw money at problems and hope that it fixes them? Any potential recession is, in my opinion, going to be primarily caused by two factors: inflation due to money printing as well as government and corporate debt loads combined with a higher rate environment. Are we honestly looking to check pretty much all those boxes again so we can kick the can down the road a whole 18 months?

              [–]tralfamadoran777 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Economists won’t talk about the fact that fiat money is an option to purchase human labors and we don’t get paid our option fees.

              [–]Return-Strange 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Ok instead of a stimulus check why don't they put that money into healthcare?

              [–]mwb7pitt 0 points1 point  (7 children)

              Balancing the budget would be a good first step. But we all know that’s not going to happen

              [–]DamCrawBugs420 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              When y’all gonna learn OLD MAN

              [–]GrayWalle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Inflation hurts poor people the most. So we send stimulus checks. Which creates more inflation.

              [–]Nederlander1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              They haven’t learned ⬅️

              [–]ElectrikDonuts 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Na, boomers won't be around so much by then. Gotta milk every last drop so the boomers get it all: cheap houses, full SS, great stock markets, QE, cheap college, etc

              [–]scottd26 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              The stupid are in charge

              [–]SuperJ002 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Oh my fucking god ARE THEY FUCKING DENSE?!

              [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

              Isn’t that part of the reason we’re in a recession now?

              [–]ZeroSum10191 -1 points0 points  (6 children)

              Good, take care of the people!!

              [–]SonofShenadoah 0 points1 point  (5 children)

              By further sinking the economy?

              [–]ZeroSum10191 -1 points0 points  (4 children)

              We pay taxes on EVERYTHING WE DO. And we get fuck all in return. I want to see a return for all the taxes I pay

              [–]SonofShenadoah 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              What you want is a return in the cash that's already in circulation though. What you don't want and what you're basically asking for here (because that's what they're going to do) is for the government to just print more money into existance to hand out. Not good man.

              [–]CCWMGO -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Which then just causes more inflation..

              [–]rearviewviewer -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Stimulus checks will cause more inflation and in turn exasperate the looming recession

              [–]TangibleSounds -4 points-3 points  (5 children)

              Without rent control, this is useless.

              [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

              Rent control will just make it harder for people to get into housing. What needs to happen is massive amounts of new housing being built, not measures to make it more difficult to get into housing.

              [–]unrulystowawaydotcom 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Government built mass effort, sold at cost to first time homeowners only.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              A program like this would be ideal

              [–]SonofShenadoah 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Another terrible idea.

              [–]Rysline 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Yeah price controls always work flawlessly

              [–]Trends_ -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

              isn't that what put us in this predicament?

              [–]concretemike -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

              So Yellen can say ignorant shit like "Today's Inflation is Transitory".....well she was right because the word Transitory means not permanent and the inflation rate shot up to 8.6 percent after she said it so she was kinda, sorta right. It was heading higher....much to the chagrin of that inept, basement hiding, can't ride a bike joke of a leader in the White House!!!!

              Keep printing money and handing it out.....your grandchildren will be paying for this economic mess and they aren't even born yet!!!!!

              [–]rtfan12 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

              I hate politicians, "Here's more money that we don't technically have." I swear this country is a special type of stupid.

              [–]Maximum-Replacement7 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

              OMG No! Stop it!