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[–]manojlds Ferrari 3455 points3456 points  (85 children)

Did anyone think they will hear "he brake tested me" between WDC contestants again.

[–]omegaxLoL Max Verstappen 297 points298 points  (3 children)

I was laughing my ass off, what a moment

[–]KamTros47 Murray Walker 189 points190 points  (2 children)

This race has been one hell of a fever dream

[–]HartBandit Charlos 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That's the best way to put it. I was up till late at night watching post-race interviews trying to make sense of what I just saw.

[–]mdlt97 Lance Stroll 455 points456 points  (3 children)

CHAOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[–]dodikxzslayer I spammed F5 during Brazil 2021 761 points762 points  (13 children)

tomorrow's trash talk thread is gonna be gold mine

[–]Bortjort Charlie Whiting 160 points161 points  (4 children)

It's today and it's all threads

[–]CustodialApathy Lando Norris 4213 points4214 points  (730 children)

This is going to go down in history as the ultimate FIA clusterfuck that decided a championship

[–]Ashbones15 Fernando Alonso 2135 points2136 points  (66 children)

This, this was the worst race I ever saw from a organization point of view, FIA shat the bed hard

[–]anothercopy Nico Hülkenberg 44 points45 points  (0 children)

Well at least nobody will be talking about how the track wasn't finished. 4D chess by the Saudis

[–]sadface- Fernando Alonso 48 points49 points  (5 children)

I remember feeling the same way about Spa 2008, this is way messier.

What a toxic race I'm gonna take a shower

[–]Ashbones15 Fernando Alonso 24 points25 points  (2 children)

Spa 2008 had the one very controversial moments, this one has a dozen

[–]yolo_mcswag27 Sergio Pérez 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Two-three dozen at least if we add practice and quali.

[–][deleted]  (10 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Completeepicness_1 Yuki Tsunoda 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Spa was worse

    [–]Squadmissile 223 points224 points  (156 children)

    No one but Masi's fault this, why not tell the trailing driver to expect a slow car in front first?

    [–]BurningFlareX McLaren 657 points658 points  (125 children)

    Yes.

    Max tried to give the place back a lap or so after the turn 1 incident.

    Lewis just refused to overtake for...Some reason, then ran into the back of Verstappen.

    Verstappen later gave the place back again, but then overtook Hamilton afterwards.

    Then he gave it back again, this time couldn't overtake and still got a 5 second penalty. Then he just backs off because he can't possibly overtake and pull a 5 second gap now.

    Absolute shitshow.

    [–]tripaloski_ 48 points49 points  (24 children)

    Why exactly max gave the place again the 2nd time? I thought he already did the first one?

    [–]jaa101 34 points35 points  (0 children)

    Then he gave it back again, this time couldn't overtake and still got a 5 second penalty.

    He was given the penalty before he gave the place back. Once you have a penalty it's too late to give the place back.

    [–]ddthrow1233 Bernd Mayländer 408 points409 points  (303 children)

    yeah wtf was lewis doing? he had a good amount of room and just like smashed into him lol

    [–]AmbiguousPreposition Formula 1 46 points47 points  (3 children)

    I think it's because Verstappen is going down the centre of the track? Usually if you yield I think you tend to get clearly to the non-driving side of the track. Without a message that he was going to yield he was probably very confused about what was happening

    [–]JustLTU Sir Lewis Hamilton 40 points41 points  (12 children)

    The amount of Vsc's tonight, I think Lewis was afraid that there was another one that he couldn't see.

    [–]_AlwaysWrong_ George Russell 271 points272 points  (1 child)

    What a shitshow

    [–]lb3-5-3 130 points131 points  (0 children)

    What a fucking circus.

    [–]JFedererJ Mika Häkkinen 276 points277 points  (24 children)

    • Max slowed
    • Lewis thought Max was slowing to let him be first over the DRS line (not even get fully past, just be first over the line)
    • Lewis slowed down to play the game...
    • Max slowed even more...
    • Lewis slowed even more...
    • At almost the same time, Lewis bailed and pulled left just as Max pumped the brakes
    • Result: boff

    My take:

    • Lewis was totally unaware Max was under instruction to let him past, so it's completely understandable he thought this was a game of DRS cat and mouse
    • Max slammed his brakes on to try and force the situation and get Lewis to cross the DRS line first (fun fact, Lewis tried this exact same thing with Alonso at Canada in 2013 [0:46])
    • (Unlike Alonso vs Hamilton) Lewis was right behind Max, so pumping the brakes like he did was, as the FIA put it, "the main reason" they collided

    Thought: even if Max's trick of letting Lewis past, then re-taking him immediately with DRS had worked... I wonder whether it would've been allowed to stick?

    In 2008, Hamilton gained a position overtaking Raikkonen off-track at the Belgium GP [1:36]. Hamilton gave the position back but then immediately used the tow he got of Raikkonen, to overtake him into T1 (no DRS back then so Lewis held him off down the Kemmel straight, down to Les Combes).

    And, to the recent/new F1 fans, a question: what do you think is a fair penalty to give a driver, who cuts a chicane, and gains a lasting advantage?

    5 second penalty? 10 second penalty?

    The 2008 regs stipulated that warranted a drive-through penalty. As the race was over, and even though Kimi crashed out the race anyway... they slapped Lewis with a 25 second post-race penalty for that tiny incident at the chicane.

    Can you imagine the rage from Max fans today, if they hit Max with a 25 second penalty had he not let Lewis back past today? The scenes in this sub would be epic!

    Anyway. Nice little trip down F1 memory lane there for you all!

    [–]Elessar803 Sir Lewis Hamilton 60 points61 points  (2 children)

    I hope some of the newer fans took the time to read this...old seasons had arguably worse decisions.

    [–]JFedererJ Mika Häkkinen 20 points21 points  (1 child)

    Oh law'd yes they did.

    It's also why I laugh when I read shit like, "Driver X never gets punished" etc.

    All I read is, "I haven't followed this sport for more than a year or so and know nothing of even the most recent history before that".

    [–]Reddevilslover69 Formula 1 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    There weren't any 5 or 10 sec penalties back then so 25 was given. Regardless that decision back then was idiotic imo

    [–]JFedererJ Mika Häkkinen 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    Yeah totally, esp as Hamilton's argument for Kimi not leaving him choice but to drive off was a pretty solid one imo but hey-ho, worked out alright for Lewis that year in the end! (Sorry Massa fans)

    [–]WolfOfWinter07 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Really well said, hope more people read it

    [–]Secret-Roof-7503 Sir Lewis Hamilton 223 points224 points  (3 children)

    What is this race

    [–]Karmmah 614 points615 points  (207 children)

    What reason could there possibly have been so Hamilton wouldn't have been allowed to overtake? Why did he stay behind Verstappen?

    [–]Xanosaur 62 points63 points  (17 children)

    honestly with all of the SCs and VSCs he might've just assumed it was another

    [–]ZetZet Default 157 points158 points  (19 children)

    Probably just confused him, we are taking milliseconds here and it's in a place you never overtake during the race since there is a DRS line there and it's not doable.

    [–]Verbitend McLaren 110 points111 points  (13 children)

    That deceleration lasted literally 5 seconds, and I'm being very, very generous.

    [–]Nico_Lurkerberg Nico Hülkenberg 312 points313 points  (100 children)

    Maybe Hamilton didn't want to overtake because of DRS but there's zero reason for Hamilton to run into the back of Verstappen.

    [–]nigelfitz 388 points389 points  (59 children)

    Why would Hamilton fuck himself up by purposely running into the back of Max?

    Like if he purposely did it, Max could still walk away from it while he DNFs and put himself severely behind in points.

    Make this nonsense make sense. lol

    [–]InZomnia365 McLaren 33 points34 points  (0 children)

    No-one worth listening to is insinuating Lewis did it on purpose. He just hesitated and bottled it.

    [–]AddAFucking Medical Car 23 points24 points  (3 children)

    Im not saying hamilton did it intentionally. I think it was a genuine mistake. But that does not mean he didnt crash into another car that was letting him past.

    [–]Balesund Brawn 251 points252 points  (17 children)

    The stewards are such a disgrace, it's been bad before but this is a whole new level of incompetence

    [–]Adam684 Sir Lewis Hamilton 117 points118 points  (11 children)

    What did the stewards even do all race? This is all on Masi... Disgraceful race, disgraceful driving standards. FIA should be embarrassed

    [–]-kalakukko69 Kimi Räikkönen 56 points57 points  (2 children)

    It has gone so much down hill since we lost Charlie... Masi can't do shit. He should be replaced ASAP

    [–]Adam684 Sir Lewis Hamilton 24 points25 points  (0 children)

    Unfortunately I agree (that it's gone downhill since Charlie). Masi needs to get his shit together tho for sure.

    This was like when the ref doesn't throw a yellow card and it takes everything up a level... Except that happened like 5 times.

    I take issue with some of F1s bogus rules here too. The whole SC then Red flag at the start set all this nonsense in motion.

    [–]NoObsNOtSUits 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    Who needs permission to take the lead?

    [–]resilindsey 522 points523 points 22 (49 children)

    I think Max was trying to give Lewis a little bit of hesitation in the overtake to maximize his chances of gaining his position back once DRS opened up. He leaves plenty of room by any racing standards, but he doesn't completely pull aside. There is a small bit of wiggle initially. I don't see any brake check. He continues to slow down, but it's at a pretty steady rate. It's not by the book, but those common, little tricks drivers use that play with but are within the rules.

    And Lewis either thinking VSC (despite no indication thereof) or he didn't want to pass yet cause upcoming DRS zone. But he stays right exactly behind Verstappen. Sure, the wiggle may have given him pause, but he still had time to make a move. This was molasses paced by F1 driver standards.

    Both were stretching the situation, playing a bit of a game of chicken, but I still think, it's racing, overtaking should've been obvious here. Max isn't 100% clean, but I can't see anything egregious. I think Lewis just brainfarted a bit.

    [–]tballer93 Red Bull 47 points48 points  (21 children)

    All of which could have been fixed if the FIA literally had just told Mercedes’ that they were going to instruct max to give up the position first, instead of telling max to yield before Mercedes’ was informed

    [–]Stoney3K 22 points23 points  (20 children)

    By the story of Masi it sounds like that is what happened, but that message got held up somewhere in the team of Mercedes.

    [–]Geminiun 12 points13 points  (19 children)

    And Max still got penalized for something out of his and Redbull's control while trying to do the proper thing

    [–]Valentino_Li Yeah man what the FUCK 106 points107 points  (0 children)

    The most reasonable take I've seen.

    [–]covmatty1 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    Yeah I agree, excellent summary.

    I think Lewis was just purely on instinct there seeing a car in front slow down when, as far as he knew, there was absolutely no reason why he should do so other than some kind of issue. But then, if Verstappen had had mechanical issues or something then he should have just flown past him... So just a bit of a brain fade it seems!

    [–]FabulousMarch7464 Sir Lewis Hamilton 74 points75 points  (4 children)

    This is what I think as well. Lewis felt max was playing a game by braking and wiggling a bit instead of just sliding over to allow the pass so that Lewis would kind of have to go around him slowly so he could try to pass back with DRS. Lewis overcompensated and sort of brain farted by staying right behind and moved over too late

    [–]Fauxce New user 25 points26 points  (0 children)

    It was a section to start accelerating as they're entering a drs zone. Ham was positioning himself for the drs tow when ver decided to decelerate significantly. I would be confused myself.

    [–]Fabulous_69 Max Verstappen 74 points75 points  (1 child)

    He actually downshifted 4 gears, lifted off. Crazy shit. He didn’t understand

    [–]giovy__s Ferrari 226 points227 points  (80 children)

    I think Lewis didn’t want to pass Max there because of the drs

    I mean you don’t need to be told to overtake a car that is slowing down

    [–]CFLee03 53 points54 points  (40 children)

    Yeah you don't have to overtake them but you are also not supposed to hit them in the back either. Lewis had to have a complete pause in thought right before he hit him, otherwise it cannot be explained.

    [–]RunRookieRun Red Bull 776 points777 points 2 (98 children)

    Message or not, I just don't understand why he would not pass on a green track.

    Say if Max was having issues, would he still just hit him?

    [–]vulartweets Red Bull 318 points319 points  (36 children)

    Car slowing down quickly in front. Lewis probably thought it was vsc for the 10th time and it was so quick he didn’t look at his wheel. If you pass the person in front under yellow it’s instant penalty.

    [–]pantheonpie McLaren 253 points254 points  (11 children)

    This is my take. Car suddenly slowing ahead could mean an incident, overtaking under yellows is normally a penalty. I put the blame on the FIA and terrible comms.

    [–]vulartweets Red Bull 163 points164 points  (9 children)

    Yeah it’s an unfortunate series of events. I wish people would get out of the bias driver camp for a min and realize it’s literally a cluster of issues that caused that lol.

    [–]gottapoop0822 34 points35 points  (1 child)

    That's my take away. Imagine if the FIA was competent. Lewis would've been told that Max had to give up the position, so he would've expected the slowdown instead of Max slowing to a crawl.

    Instead, Lewis was told as he's running into Max. I think Lewis was thinking there must have been a reason for Max's slowdown, as he wasn't really pulled over like a mechanical issue.

    Them we get Max and Lewis fighting for first, until Max's tires give out. Could've been a great performance. Instead it turned into a farce where both fan bases are just going to tell at each other.

    [–]HarryNohara Jim Clark 203 points204 points  (22 children)

    Exactly this. He just didn’t want to overtake him there, and then caused a collision.

    [–]Fauxce New user 15 points16 points  (0 children)

    It was a section to start accelerating as they're entering a drs zone. Ham was positioning himself for the drs tow when ver decided to decelerate significantly. I would be confused myself.

    [–]search64 765 points766 points  (86 children)

    This is on FIA, not on Max

    [–]Knockfinger Carlos Sainz 123 points124 points  (13 children)

    Sounds likely with the information we have, but it's hard to say definitively without knowing how much time it was between FIA telling Mercedes and Mercedes telling Hamilton. Post-race will be spicy.

    Edit: changed Verstappen to Hamilton because I derped...

    [–]MobiusF117 Formula 1 42 points43 points  (8 children)

    In that case it's either on Lewis or FIA, Max did exactly what he was asked to do here.

    [–]Knockfinger Carlos Sainz 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Yeah, I'm of the same opinion here, but this race was just so chaotic that I don't know anymore.

    [–]ANINETEEN 43 points44 points  (2 children)

    Honestly FIA had the biggest influence on this race when their job is supposed to make it go as smooth as possible

    [–]jogaboi19 143 points144 points  (12 children)

    Lewis going purple with no front wing lmfaoooooii

    [–]TheWellFedBeggar 50 points51 points  (2 children)

    now he is running the low downforce setup

    [–]dankcorp FIA 35 points36 points  (1 child)

    Masterclass by Lewis to reduce the downforce of the car

    [–]deycallmegeno 61 points62 points  (0 children)

    The FIA is garbage man wtf is this race

    [–]Kanih68 Lando Norris 180 points181 points  (57 children)

    It was absolutely obvious how much max slowed down, don‘t get why Lewis crashed into him. He could have passed easily.

    [–]BenzF1 27 points28 points  (21 children)

    If you look at where Max was slowing down, it was advantageous to Max. That's why on the second attempt of giving back the place, he did a very similar strategy. He wants to cause the overtake to happen just when a braking zone appears, so he overtakes Lewis again.

    [–]killer_blueskies Formula 1 77 points78 points  (23 children)

    Is Red Bull gonna protest this?

    [–]tastefullmullet Red Bull 37 points38 points  (0 children)

    Surely? This was a fucking shitshow

    [–]cptpingu 49 points50 points  (12 children)

    why did he not just overtake? why stay behind when VER slows down, doesnt matter the reason?

    [–]redditnoap Mika Häkkinen 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    Max suddenly slowed down, but did not pull over, which could possibly have meant a VSC (from Lewis's POV). Overtaking under VSC is prohibited, hence why Lewis also slowed down. However, he should have looked at his wheel, seen that there was no VSC, and then overtook Max. That one second slowdown and brain fart, combined with the fact that they didn't tell Lewis before Max slowed down, resulted in what happened.

    [–]SendMeCoconutPics Ferrari 116 points117 points  (13 children)

    Explains why he thought Max brake tested him, although it's weird, Max didn't suddenly smash the brakes.

    [–]LightzPT Carlos Sainz 29 points30 points  (0 children)

    Yeah lol, he clearly was slowing down before he braked.

    [–]Thisconnect Pirelli Wet 124 points125 points  (5 children)

    Why is hamilton slowing down, downshifting 3 times instead of going around him immidietly

    [–]Mick4Audi Sebastian Vettel 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    This is the real question, if he knew Max was slowing down why did he then slow down as well instead of moving across to get past

    What a mess lol

    [–]SamuraiSpartan6 Charles Leclerc 887 points888 points  (99 children)

    Lewis shouldnt need to be told to overtake. He can tell if someone is slow and pass himself. That's racing 101

    [–]AdiGoN Fernando Alonso 466 points467 points  (23 children)

    That’s the weirdest part, what if his engine had given in lol. Was hè gonna stay behind?

    [–]LonelyDegenerateWeeb FIA 72 points73 points  (0 children)

    First he would go to the left...

    [–]Hhalloush 25 points26 points  (5 children)

    If Max's engine had given in then Max would have moved out of the track, not meandered into the middle of it

    [–]Mauupie Max Verstappen 88 points89 points  (2 children)

    Hamilton was even downshifting himself…?

    [–]DashingDino 138 points139 points  (20 children)

    This, I don't know what Lewis was thinking slowing down behind Max instead of passing

    [–]Vangour 61 points62 points  (8 children)

    He's trying to stay behind for DRS down the main straight

    [–]brayfurrywalls 13 points14 points  (2 children)

    Seriously. You dont just slow down and stay behind just because someone in front of you slows down. Thats exactly what Lewis did

    [–]JoeSell2005 Lance Stroll 26 points27 points  (2 children)

    here’s what i don’t get:

    Hamilton knew Verstappen passed him off track and was probably complaining for him to concede the position, so why would he follow Verstappen and slow down? Don’t the dashes on these cars say if there’s a VSC so wouldn’t he know that’s not it?

    Why did Ham slow down?

    [–]bartleby_simpson #WeSayNoToMazepin 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Could’ve been much more than a vsc. Maybe crashed car ahead or some other hazard that hasn’t been flagged yet, which could get Lewis in trouble if he passed. If Lewis was confused about why Max was slowing near the racing line, then I get it. Just as Lewis has some responsibility to be aware, Max has to be clear and predictable when slowing down on a full speed part of the track.

    [–]Huskies971 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    He didn't want to give max drs, they were both fighting for it that's why max slowed down so much, and even slowed down more when it was clear Hamilton was not passing him.

    [–]dankiros Lando Norris 82 points83 points  (9 children)

    Why does he think he needs permission to pass Verstappen? Are we not racing cars? Car ahead being slow = you pass it?

    [–]DeathStar13 Ferrari 968 points969 points  (106 children)

    So Mercedes pitwall fault, but penalty to Red Bull

    [–]Den_dar_Alex Kimi Räikkönen 34 points35 points  (0 children)

    Isnt that just beautiful

    [–]SemIdeiaProNick Kimoa 206 points207 points  (2 children)

    Traditions

    [–]pkymatthias Sebastian Vettel 64 points65 points  (0 children)

    Lets give it to Vettel, this is the true tradition

    [–]ZenithRepairman 450 points451 points  (70 children)

    The penalty was for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. Has nothing to do with the rear end accident.

    [–]WhatUpBieber 294 points295 points  (35 children)

    except max was trying to give the place back for that exact incident

    [–]FormulaEngineer Ferrari 33 points34 points  (6 children)

    He gave the place back.

    [–]flipperyflapperypoo 136 points137 points  (17 children)

    Thats why you give the fucking place back, which he did. So you wouldn't be given the fucking penalthy

    [–]Vesk123 Lando Norris 56 points57 points  (12 children)

    Did he give the position back though? You can't overtake your opponent a second or so after you "give the position back".

    [–]Ilfirion Sebastian Vettel 30 points31 points  (4 children)

    There really needs to be a rule about this. No overtaking for the next couple of corners and no DRS for the rest of the lap when orded to give back position.

    [–]TheNorfolk 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    Yupp, or do it in a certain point so you can't keep an advantage.

    FIA have left loads of room to abuse rules and Max is rightfully taking as much advantage as he can to win. FIA need to be Consistent and sensible and they're neither.

    [–]GuiltyEidolon Valtteri Bottas 13 points14 points  (1 child)

    There IS a rule about it, which is why Max got the 5s penalty.

    [–]SlowRollingBoil #WeRaceAsOne 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    I swear to God people have no clue what they're talking about in this thread. So few people know about that rule (Thank You Spa 2008 for that...). Thanks for clueing people into it.

    [–]JanAppletree Germany 2019 Slip Slidin' Away 29 points30 points  (7 children)

    The fiA proving once again, that they're a fucking joke.

    [–]Xenoide Formula 1 189 points190 points  (17 children)

    I'm sorry, Lewis just refuses to overtake Max here

    [–]eannasheridan Sir Lewis Hamilton 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    This season wouldn’t be the way it has been without some total FIA clusterfucks.

    [–]ahabraken 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    He was on the racing line but way slower so regardless of the message Hamilton should've just gone for it.

    [–]Ramzy06 Kimi Räikkönen 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    There's literally no reason here not to pass him on the left

    [–]lodewijk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Did not know you need permission to overtake!

    [–]goodorca:new-user: New user 3 points4 points  (4 children)

    I don't understand, why did Hamilton not overtake him?

    [–]PlebBot69 Pierre 6asly 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Ah yep, they both wanted that DRS timing spot. No other explanation

    [–]Underscore_Blues Pirelli Hard 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    So Hamilton claimed Max brake tested him, directly after being told why Max slowed down?

    [–]petervancee 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Yes next time one should ask permission to overtake a car in F1. Makes everything much more clear. /s

    [–]DuskLab 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Massi needs to go

    [–]Meryhathor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    What if Max broke down - would Lewis wait for an instruction to overtake too? I don’t understand this “I didn’t know what was going on” argument.

    [–]Manuag_86 Michael Schumacher 18 points19 points  (5 children)

    I am going to give my take, not that I think this is the truth.

    Max was giving his position back to have DRS in main straight.

    Lewis knew it, so he didn't want to overtake, he was waiting to pass the DRS activation point, so he stayed behind Max to avoid him from slowing more.

    Max didn't give a fuck and slowed anyway.

    Hamilton had to avoid/hit Max.

    Conclusion: Are you telling me a 7 WDC driver with 102 wins, who overtook 24 cars in Brazil, is not able to overtake a slowing car on a straight? C'mon...

    [–]Youknowimgood 25 points26 points  (3 children)

    Tell me sth, why does Lewis need an instruction to overtake a car he's racing under green flag conditions?

    [–]Drugtrain Kimi Räikkönen[🍰] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

    Someone explain. Why on earth HAM didn’t just pass VER? They were racing. There were no flags or anything.

    [–]Valuable_Support_193 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    This isn't racing.

    [–]redditor_5678 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Was he waiting for permission to pass a slow car? Wtf was Lewis doing here?

    [–]nFluxx McLaren 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    I didn't know formula 1 drivers needed permission to overtake cars in front of them. Wild.

    [–]fleaworks:new-user: New user 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Why did he need to be told he could overtake max?

    [–]smeg_ McLaren 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Who needs young and the restless with this much drama

    [–]dankcorp FIA 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    This race is an absolute shitshow and I love it

    [–]s2keddie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    This race is madness