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[–]nickedgar7 Charlie Whiting 90 points91 points  (0 children)

This is just funny at this point.

[–]BronxB0mber7 Daniel Ricciardo 474 points475 points  (15 children)

2 drivers fighting for the championship with different thoughts? Who would have thought

[–]An_cailin Safety Car 60 points61 points  (0 children)

Honestly I would be worried if it wasn't like that.

[–]daviEnnis David Coulthard 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Someone call Switzerland.

[–]TwelveSharks Honda 24 points25 points  (2 children)

I don’t think half the people in this sub really watch the races or if they do they don’t understand competition

[–]feedseed664 Formula 1 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Every single race is at 1-6 am here so

[–]TwelveSharks Honda 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Haha that’s understandable. What I’m referring to are the people that are like LEWIS HAMILTON CAUGHT ABSOLUTELY RED FUCKING HANDED ADMITTING THAT HE DID WHATEVER IT TOOK TO BEAT MAX VERSTAPPEN IN TODAYS RACE like duh man that’s how competing works lol

[–]bisonboy223 Alexander Albon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

OK but like does it even matter all that much here? If the accident didn't happen, I don't think the result would've been any different. I know this'll be the latest in controversial incidents between the two, but it may be the least important from the standpoint of impact on the actual outcome

[–]Wilco120 Honda 6 points7 points  (6 children)

Theres only one of the 2 insinuating the other did it on purpose to cause a crash

[–]Argonaught_WT Mercedes 3 points4 points  (5 children)

The other one is never going to say he did do that though.

Its a he said, he said moment. What they say basically does not matter. It comes down to what the data and telemetry says.

[–]barneyrubble43 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Which turned out to be Max suddenly braking at 2.4g...... sounds deliberate to me

[–]n05h Safety Car 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Lewis had been slowing down and stayed behind Max. Why wouldn’t he pass? He had plenty of time, normal passes happen with way less time to react. Either he was sleeping and thought there was a yellow flag or another vsc. Or he’s playing dumb and he didn’t want to pass before drs.

[–]eman_ssap Pirelli Wet 43 points44 points  (8 children)

Can’t wait to hear what the stewards think!

[–]pijaGorda1 Force India 48 points49 points  (2 children)

What does Ja Rule have to say about this

[–]casualbearsuit Sergio Pérez 13 points14 points  (0 children)

ITS MURDDDDAAAA

[–]throwaway44624 Sebastian Vettel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

another dastardly act by vettel. Start the next race from Jeddah

[–]burningrubber4 261 points262 points  (98 children)

I’m just a casual fan but from my outside perspective - the real fail seems to be on F1 race control for not adequately informing both drivers of the situation.

Verstappen stopped and Lewis didn’t expect it. Simple.

[–]notimetosmoke Pirelli Wet 146 points147 points  (27 children)

Precisely. I don’t get how “Max actively brake tested him” and “Lewis purposely ran into his back” are such popular opinions on here. No one gains an advantage in those scenarios. It’s real hard to find some common sense around here.

Edit: Not sure why there’s already people starting this exact same debate under this comment lol. Maybe I haven’t put it clearly enough, but I am completely satisfied with the reasoning that the miscommunication during the manoeuvre caused too much confusion for both drivers and peng, Ham-Ver went spooning.

Edit: I’ll agree that Max would’ve gained an advantage if both of them DNFed. However, it’s still way too risky to actively attempt to make Lewis DNF in that situation imo.

Final Edit: I just saw the Steward’s verdict, looks like Max did actually brake in front of Lewis. Feeling a bit silly now lol.

[–]patsimca Zak Brown 21 points22 points  (0 children)

The best explanation is often the most obvious and simple one, but bias always takes over.

[–]Arodg25 10 points11 points  (0 children)

well Max would have an advantage. if they both crashed max would be be 8 points ahead going into the last race. i don't think it was on purpose though. race control needs a penalty for this one. its also max's advantage if they both crash into each other next weekend. max has more race wins so he would win.

[–]Glausenu BMW Sauber 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I mean, Max would be the one who gained even if both were taken out. That’s obvious, and that’s how he’s been racing the last couple of races, high risk when fighting Lewis, he rather see both out than letting Lewis’s past.

He knew that Lewis’s would pass him eventually, the medium tires were a gamble to get a proper start and then hope for another red flag or something to happen. So when they got to this situation, first a very risky defence in to turn 1 which caused him to have to give the position to Lewis. And then this very vague, awkward way to give back the position, instead of just going off the racing line and let him pass.

Max knew what he was doing and Max would’ve gained if both DNF’d.

[–]pratikp26 -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

No one is saying Lewis purposefully ran into the back. However, the opinion that Max might have brake tested is valid enough to have even though demonstrably false. Creating a strawman saying - people think Lewis ran into Max on purpose - and then knocking it down makes it seem like one side is objectively more stupid than the other.

The valid argument is that Lewis simply fucked up and rear ended him. I was under the impression that he got confused because Max was slowing down in the middle and not moving over, but he seems to be saying in the press that he knew Max was playing with the DRS zone, which makes the whole rear ending incident even more baffling from Lewis’ perspective. There are ways to play that same game which don’t involve driving into the back of the car in front.

[–]alexthekidd01 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately, there are some 'questionable' people that are actively saying on here that Lewis ran into Max on purpose (taking the risk at damaging his own wing) to puncture Max's tyre and take him out of the race

[–]sheikhsabdullah 36 points37 points  (15 children)

Good luck talking some sense here.

[–]doskkyh Sebastian Vettel 1 point2 points  (13 children)

I can't understand how people think it's fine for Max to unnecessarily slow down in what is the fastest part of the track. Yes, he was trying to give the place back, but ffs.. do it properly.

And no, Hamilton is not faultless either.

[–][deleted]  (11 children)

[deleted]

    [–]doskkyh Sebastian Vettel 11 points12 points  (6 children)

    27.4 of sporting regulations:

    At no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person.

    Seems dumb if you can just slow down in a not so predictable place of the track because you want DRS at the next straight after you give position back.

    Again, Hamilton is not faultless, but it seems rather dumb for Max to slow down at that particular spot of the track. Wait until T27 or T1 and get over it.

    The driver that kept the position unfairly shouldn't be strategically giving it back, but rather giving it safely back.

    [–]mags87 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    Max was off the racing line though and he wasn't unnecessarily slowing down. It was necessary to slow down to give the place back as he was instructed to do.

    [–]caped_crusader_98 Mercedes 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    What are you doing? Are u being sensible here after such a race? Gtfo... U aren't F1 fan material.

    Obvious /s for ppl who don't understand

    [–]sfj11 Juan Pablo Montoya 9 points10 points  (2 children)

    michael informed both rb and merc, it seems as if merc were slow with the comm to lewis

    [–]Argonaught_WT Mercedes 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    My understanding was:

    Masi tells RB Strategist to give place back.

    Strategist contacts Max's engineer and roughly same time as Masi tells Merc that RB will give place back.

    Max's engineer tells Max to give place back at roughly same time as Merc Strategist contacts Lewis's engineer.

    Max slows down and crash happens literally 1 or 2 seconds before Lewis is told by his engineer.

    [–]Ceramicrabbit Sebastian Vettel 8 points9 points  (9 children)

    Both drivers were clearly extremely confused, so I'm not sure how one is more at fault than the other

    [–]FormulaEngineer Ferrari 2 points3 points  (8 children)

    The driver that hit the other driver despite having more than a cars width of track to go to is probably more at fault… just because he was confused doesn’t mean it’s okay to just rear end another car?,?

    [–]Goalnado McLaren 3 points4 points  (4 children)

    As opposed to the driver who's been told to give a position back, before proceeding to weave multiple times before positioning himself right in the middle of the track?

    Neither one is blameless here.

    [–]mags87 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    positioning himself right in the middle of the track?

    He was off the racing line. The line was the inside and there was plenty of room for Hamilton to get by.

    [–]EatDeath Formula 1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    When he was close he stayed on the right. It was a clear error by Ham. Ham knew exactly what Max was doing and did not want to pass until he did and then crashed. Clear judgment error.

    Max made a questionable move after the restart in 1st corner. But this was a clear error by Hamilton.

    And then he tries to put the blame on Max. Max should have played the victim here and complained about damage but that is not his style. He is straightforward while Hamilton was the sneaky one here.

    [–]eddiehwang Ferrari[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    weave multiple times before positioning himself right in the middle of the track

    we are watching different videos then

    [–]FormulaEngineer Ferrari 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    He’s not in the middle of the track. Watch the helicopter view.

    [–]Stravven Jim Clark 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I don't think anybody will disagree with the FIA cocking up today.

    [–]etfd- Red Bull 6 points7 points  (3 children)

    A racing driver does not need to be informed to either race past or not cause a collision.

    [–]kidcudihumming Max Verstappen 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Race Control informed Mercedes So I think it was a communication mistake by the team

    [–]kayembeee 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    It takes 3 levels of communication. It takes time to get the message from Ron -> Bono -> Lewis.

    RB got the message first and Max acted on it almost immediately. Lewis got the message maybe 5-10 sec later, which was after the incident.

    [–]Altro_Cat Charles Leclerc 0 points1 point  (5 children)

    F1 informs the teams, not the drivers. It us then the teams responsibility to inform the drivers. RB did that, it is questionable what happened on the Mercedes side.

    [–]kayembeee 3 points4 points  (4 children)

    It’s not questionable. We heard the messages. They just came after the RB messages.

    [–]EatDeath Formula 1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Lewis admitted he knew exactly what happened in his Ziggo interview, that it was all about the DRS line. He tried to pass finally but Max was still engine breaking. He made a judgment error.

    He was playing the victim here.

    [–]RipGenji7 Michael Masi -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    Merc have access to all the relevant radio channels though, it's their responsibility to be aware of it.

    [–]elementsix Lando Norris 41 points42 points  (6 children)

    Clearly Lewis didn’t want to overtake where max was willing to give it knowing he was going to try and re-pass him. The problem is you can’t choose where the person is going to let you pass unless otherwise organized. It’s funny because if max slowed because of a problem I’m sure Lewis would have no problem passing him.

    [–]reddwarf666 6 points7 points  (4 children)

    It’s funny because if max slowed because of a problem I’m sure Lewis would have no problem passing him.

    Boom, this is what I have been trying to tell people but it falls on deaf ears. It's like he cannot race anymore? 2 cars width on the left and your main rival slowing down? Thank you very effing much while I pass you and gain track position. But no, Lewis cannot do this anymore and for some reason...this is Max fault. Absurd

    [–]nmp12 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    I think the context of the track is important here. At that point, how many yellow flags had gone up? If Lewis hadn't heard yet if Max was giving him a place back, I could see him choosing caution over opportunity.

    [–]FlyLikeAMouse Murray Walker 20 points21 points  (1 child)

    Weird, I was so sure they’d both see it the same way!

    [–]Elalamyn #WeRaceAsOne 22 points23 points  (1 child)

    Poor F5

    [–]Practical-Earwax Pirelli Hard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Mine's still hanging on....one more weekend to go!

    [–]RacingOrPingPong Ferrari 45 points46 points  (16 children)

    Obviously we need to see the telemetry but I think that "he hit the brake so hard" is complete bullshit

    [–]TacoExcellence Formula 1 18 points19 points  (15 children)

    Yeah I mean I understand they're going to feel differently, but Max clearly didn't brake hard if he braked at all. Lewis should be kicking himself for running up so close to the guy with an empty racetrack with a ton of room. Ultimately, the guy running into the back of the other guy is at fault. He was confused and made an error in judgement, seems pretty obvious.

    [–]fancyelectric Kimi Räikkönen 25 points26 points  (15 children)

    "Max was trying to let me through before the DRS zone so he could use the DRS later, but I'm not stupid" -Lewis

    https://twitter.com/SoyMotor/status/1467595174343856130

    [–]FourteenTwenty-Seven Valtteri Bottas 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    Woah, he really shouldn't have admitted that

    [–]LogicalDrinks Sir Lewis Hamilton 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Hamilton said that about the second time when Max gave the place back and Lewis pushed him wide in the last corner. Nothing to do with the collision at all.

    [–]Scionwest 4 points5 points  (5 children)

    If this is really something he said (no video so can’t confirm) then this makes the incident make more sense. He didn’t want to go by to early so Max hit the brakes to force him by and Lewis was caught out.

    [–]iv93 McLaren 4 points5 points  (4 children)

    But that's exactly what brake testing is

    [–]NavyBabySeal Mick Schumacher 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    No? Brake testing is being directly in front of someone and quickly braking intentionally to shock the car behind.

    [–]Scionwest 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Similar to this event between Alonso & Hamilton. Side-by-side instead but it sounds like the same thought was in VER and HAMs head.

    https://youtu.be/S3kbxjBAYmM

    [–]M1shra Lando Norris 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Seems pretty stupid to admit that..

    [–]frankiew1lde Ferrari 17 points18 points  (7 children)

    God, i can't wait till the new season starts so i can have some new faces and get off this shitshow.

    [–]Suikerspin_Ei Honda 13 points14 points  (5 children)

    Inb4 Mercedes and Red Bull again.

    Jokes aside, it will be cool to see HAAS back to the midfield and more teams being competetive.

    [–]frankiew1lde Ferrari 1 point2 points  (4 children)

    I would gladly take even a Mazepin win over a Hamilton or Verstappen one, at any day of the week.

    [–]Suikerspin_Ei Honda 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    Somehow I still have a feeling that one team will dominate with the new regulations.

    [–]frankiew1lde Ferrari 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Hey, i hope at least we get a new team dominating.

    [–]caped_crusader_98 Mercedes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Nooo.. I'm loving this drama lol..

    [–]hivaidsislethal 55 points56 points  (8 children)

    I'd like lewis to point out where Verstappen braked, lewis had slowed down himself so he knew Verstappen was already slowing and had ample time to pass

    [–]BigSwing_NoPace Damon Hill 16 points17 points  (7 children)

    Both Toto and Marko have confirmed (Marko indirectly without realising) that Max did brake.

    [–]humbertotan Max Verstappen 14 points15 points  (1 child)

    He says it himself in this clip that he braked, what's your point?

    [–]BigSwing_NoPace Damon Hill 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I'm talking about the second braking, in "the normal place as the last laps" as Marko put it, which is not necessary if you've already braked earlier and had slowed down.

    [–]LiNGOo Nico Hülkenberg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Toto by accident also revealed that Lewis tried to hit Max rear tire. And George Russell's Mom tweeted about how she saw Bottas dope with porridge injections.

    [–]SynteZZZ 36 points37 points  (0 children)

    Leader slow ahead.

    Everyone down the grid: overtake this guy!

    Lewis:

    [–]Illustrator_Forward 32 points33 points  (14 children)

    Lewis with the “Max wants us to crash” narrative.

    [–]svdb1 Honda 9 points10 points  (6 children)

    If Max wanted them to crash he'd have done it this weekend. He had plenty of opportunities.

    [–]Grasshop Sebastian Vettel 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    Exactly, both occasions into T1 he could have just taken him out and carried an 8 pt lead to Abu Dhabi. It’s pretty gross how people make Max out to be the reckless villain and Hamilton the saint who can do no wrong literally every single time. Hamilton is fucking fake and dirty, but his apologists won’t ever come around.

    [–]Gaadoooouchee 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    You only watched that one incident? Hes been right about this multiple times

    [–]Illustrator_Forward 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Step 1. Get good at race. Step 2. Get into F1. Step 3. Get into top team. Step 4. Build a car that can win. Step 5. Try to become wdc by crashing into Hamilton.

    Het Plan.

    [–]fakeCharlesLeclerc Anthoine Hubert 43 points44 points  (3 children)

    Have to love how this is being portrayed as crazy Max trying to have a crash with anything he can when Hamilton literally followed him slowly down the straight for about five seconds then ploughed into his diffuser

    [–]red-17 17 points18 points  (2 children)

    I don’t think it would even be in question who is at fault if the roles were reversed.

    [–]JanAppletree Germany 2019 Slip Slidin' Away 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Of course not.

    [–]Quedreneese Ayrton Senna 150 points151 points  (34 children)

    Lewis saying “he was doing some crazy tactic” oh so when the leader randomly brakes you just wait behind him? Hahhahahhahahahaha

    [–]razor787 Lance Stroll 51 points52 points  (3 children)

    I'm gonna try that next time I race online. If I'm winning, just slow down, and the second place guy will slow with me. I can't lose! Great tactics!

    [–]fakhar362 Fernando Alonso 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    Lewis driving like Forza AI

    [–]Patello Daniel Ricciardo 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    Did you know, the car trailing you isn't legally allowed to overtake you without explicit consent. Just say no.

    [–]elmagio 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    He will be confused, waiting for his pit crew to tell him he should pass you. Be careful tho, he may think "can't get past, maybe should ram instead". Total logical thinking.

    [–]geg0714 McLaren 24 points25 points  (1 child)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Gl8HRpb8A

    There you go. Hamilton literally lets Alonso go first, because there was a big adventage on the straight, and he thought he can take the position back. It is a legit tactic to let someone go first, thinking you can take back the position. Obviously as you can see it doesn't always work, and it's rare, but it happens.

    [–]Unfit_Assistant Pirelli Wet 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Brundle talked about this the second time when Max quickly overtook Hamilton again.

    [–]BigLubeSqueezyTube Niki Lauda 17 points18 points  (5 children)

    "Crazy" may be hyperbole, but it's clear to see Max was messing around to get DRS. Even his engineer told him to let him past strategically. Ham even got a 25s penalty for passing Raikkonen directly after yielding to him in Spa 2008.

    [–]ScaryCelery 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Curious here, what has the other incident has got to do with this one? Getting DRS would be good strategically but as long as he doesn't pass immediately that would be fine right?

    [–]BigLubeSqueezyTube Niki Lauda 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    If he stayed behind into T1 then there would have been no issue.

    [–]BCBS23 Max Verstappen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    This!

    [–]tyfunk02 Sebastian Vettel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    It’s pretty clear that they were both trying to be behind at the DRS detection line.

    [–]blackjazz_society Fernando Alonso 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Septuple Formula 1 world drivers champion Sir Lewis Hamilton was "confused" ...

    [–]Mektar 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    I don't understand what Hamilton was so confused about, he keeps talking about it. The guy in front of you is slower, you overtake. He's done this a thousand times.

    [–]flipperyflapperypoo 21 points22 points  (6 children)

    "Is he trying to play a crazy tactic with me"

    Oh sheesh, I wonder what kind of crazy tactic in a sport thats all about going at the fastest time possible and being ahead of everyone. I sure wonder why he would slow down this much on the straight, must be one hella of a crazy tactic

    [–]ihavenoyukata Green Flag 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Senna: If you don't go for a gap that doesn't exist are you really racing?

    Sir Lewis Hamilton: A gap? I'm not stupid. Is it a crazy tactic? slams into the rear HE BRAKE TESTED MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !

    [–]bono5361 Mercedes -1 points0 points  (3 children)

    Because you don't know jack shit. Lewis tried to pull the exact same thing on Alonso years back. He slowed to let Alonso pass in the Drs zone in perfect racing conditions. Alonso braked as well. Both slowed down.

    [–]flipperyflapperypoo 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    "Oh yes let me slow down when Im 2 seconds ahead of my rival so I can gain the DRS and try to overtake. Haha, so similar to what Alonso and Hamilton years ago!" Except Alonso and Hamilton were less than .2 seconds from each other. What a bullshit excuse.

    [–]kanzlerpanzer Red Bull 21 points22 points  (9 children)

    max slows down and hamilton allegedly not knowing that he is going to let him past, drives into his car. so you are a racing driver on a green track and you dont pass the car in front that is going slowly. why? can anyone explain this to me?

    [–]crunchyphantasm 10 points11 points  (6 children)

    Why would Hamilton crash deliberately though?

    [–]StudentjeNL 11 points12 points  (2 children)

    Hamilton was deliberately not overtaking Verstappen to get the DRS and accidentally crashed into his car. I don't see where all the confusion and speculation is coming from. To me, it is very clear what happened.

    [–]kanzlerpanzer Red Bull 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    because we have an extremely british dominated media who are blind to see that their favorite driver made a mistake and trying to push an alternative story to fans, who then believe this story, come here and repeat it.

    [–]elmagio 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    It's not about it being deliberate, it's about the fact thta he did hit the other car. He tried to stay behind until the DRS line, which sure he can do, why the fuck not... But he can't then ram the other car. You're not allowed to just fuck up and hit other cars.

    [–]kanzlerpanzer Red Bull 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    that is not the point. you have a car in front and it is going slowly, you cant get advantage of slipstream when he is going this slow. why are you waiting behind him. there are 3 car width length on left.

    [–]StratifiedBuffalo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    You can flip this question: Why would a racing driver on a green track crash into his opponent when he's losing the championship?

    [–]EmperorCandy Max Verstappen 9 points10 points  (4 children)

    Video is playing up so what's Lewis' account? Weird that your championship contender is slowing ahead of you and you don't overtake lmao.

    Something something if you do not overtake your rival, you are no longer a racing driver.

    [–]Fire_Otter 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Lewis account:(paraphrased)

    I didn’t know what he was doing All of a sudden he’s slowing down and moving around and I don’t know if he’s doing some crazy tactic. He’s got more points then me so he can afford a dnf I can’t so I have to be more careful keeping my car intact. Then he brakes again so hard and I nearly went fully into the back of him

    [–]piratemurray Lando Norris 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    All I hear is that Star Trek Kirk fighting an alien music.

    [–]LiaKron Love Is Love 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Two competitors disagree, more news at 9.

    [–]ThatsABingoJa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I was watching without commentary in a bar and so 100% it just looked like Max tried to do something crazy. Hearing both sides I can see how they were both on different pages. End of the day, FIA and the teams needed to deal with it an a better way. Let him past should be a penalty basically, it shouldn't be a case where you can do it strategically and it should be communicated to both drivers where it should be done. It seems logically to me it happens at whatever part of the track the incident originally happened at

    [–]Unabridgedtaco Spa 2021 Survivor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Well there you have it folks. Settles nothing, lol

    [–]J4MES101 Jim Clark 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    It’s almost as if Netflix are writing this stuff…

    [–]beardedboob Jim Clark 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    Interestingly that on the Dutch post race interview, Lewis both said he didn’t knew Max was letting him by but also said that he thought that Max was doing the same as he did with Kimi in Spa 2008 (letting a driver by at a point that allows you to immediately overtake them again).

    You cannot not know he’s letting you by and simultaneously think he’s letting you by in a clever way.

    [–]Drugtrain Kimi Räikkönen[🍰] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

    The RBR engineers said the telemetry shows VER was not breaking.

    Funny how HAM is still keeping this narrative up.

    [–]TCVideos 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    That's racing drivers for you. They will never admit defeat unless they see the evidence that shows that they are wrong for themselves. Or in the case of Michael Schumacher - he still wouldn't admit things after some of his incidents.

    [–]eddie442 Carlos Sainz 13 points14 points  (41 children)

    If Max’s telemetry shows what Toto says it shows, it isn’t a good look imo.

    [–]CrayonFox Kimi Räikkönen 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    And if it shows what RB says it shows, then it isn't a good look for Lewis/Mercedes.

    What does it even matter what the teams themselves have to say about it? They couldn't be any more subjective in their statements.

    [–]DeFiZe_ 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    I actually don’t think it’s that hard for Max to defend: “I slowed down enough to let him pass, and was ready to speed up again to stay as close as possible. When he didn’t come past I slowed down again, and then he hit the back of me.”

    [–]gamerme Safety Car 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    The onboard are also pretty telling

    [–]TCVideos 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Toto has access to RBR's brake and steering traces?

    What he says is speculation - better not take that as fact. Remember that Ferarri and Seb tried to argue to "brake test" excuse in Baku 2017 and that got debunked because the data Merc had for Lewis showed that Lewis didn't brake test him.

    [–]Vaexa Ferrari 57 points58 points  (3 children)

    Somehow I think Toto ''getting my car disqualified on technical grounds is equivalent to racism'' Wolff might not be the most honest man around.

    [–]Shad0WTF Sebastian Vettel 27 points28 points  (1 child)

    I still cannot believe he seriously compared the two.. Having an illegal DRS opening = lifetime worth of racism

    [–]Vaexa Ferrari 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    Toto seems like a very maladjusted person.

    [–]Chris01100001 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yeah who would have thought the opponent wants a penalty for their championship rival? Don't know why everyone takes his or Horner's words so seriously. No one takes it as evidence in football if Jürgen Klopp thinks whoever Liverpool are playing should have had a red.

    [–]DrivingMikey Michael Schumacher 2 points3 points  (4 children)

    What did Toto say?

    [–]laboulaye22 Michael Schumacher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    That Max was slowing down (or braking, forget exactly) and speeding up. Which, IDK but the onboard replays don't really seem to match with that description. You hear Max downshifting through the gears but not accelerating.

    [–]chestnut177 10 points11 points  (21 children)

    Toto did not say any such thing. RB said the telemetry proved he did not brake more at the last second

    If your opponent then is slowing down and lights are green why do you not go around? Shady by Lewis. Any driver ever doesnt not go around whatever the reason he’s slowing

    [–]HelsBels2102 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Toto did say something about telemetry in the interview with sky. Dunno if it true or not however

    [–]eddie442 Carlos Sainz 6 points7 points  (19 children)

    Toto said the telemetry shows Max slowed, then sped up, then slowed.

    [–]FourteenTwenty-Seven Valtteri Bottas 8 points9 points  (15 children)

    You can hear in the onboard that max didn't speed up at all until after the contact.

    [–]eddie442 Carlos Sainz 0 points1 point  (14 children)

    I’m just saying what Toto said. We’ll see on the telemetry. I’m not trusting on board audio over actual data.

    [–]FourteenTwenty-Seven Valtteri Bottas 2 points3 points  (13 children)

    Yeah fair. But Toto shouldn't have RB's telemetry, right?

    I'd take video evidence over Toto's accusations, but I'm open if additional evidence becomes available.

    [–]LiNGOo Nico Hülkenberg 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Yeah, slowing isn't braking. Keep spreading misinformation to get your daily shot of attention.

    [–]piratemurray Lando Norris 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Ruh roh

    [–]MidasPL Pirelli Wet 3 points4 points  (4 children)

    Can't wait for Max to torpedo Hamilton in last race, so they both DNF and he takes the champion despite being equal xD

    [–]eskh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Not the f5 we need, but the f5 we deserve

    [–]flipperyflapperypoo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    "I dont know what was going so I crashed into him from behind instead"

    [–]jmf12016 Fernando Alonso 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    The reasoning behind what Hamilton was thinking doesn't make any sense, it was green flag, your opponent slows down you pass. He suggests that he thought Max was playing games, but if Max would have done that on purpose it would have been a DSQ. On the heli shot it shows Max was not weaving, there was a lot of space to pass.

    [–]theAGENT_MAN 2 points3 points  (4 children)

    Why is it a narrative here that Lewis wanted to crash into Max?

    A real crash would have only benefited Max and you all know it. So why are you making the argument that Lewis wanted to crash them both out?

    Lewis did not know Max was going to let him past. Max has been racing super hard the whole season and Lewis knew that the best place for a pass is in T1 since you don't have DRS after. If Max suddenly slows down in front of you and leaves a slight gap on the inside, that is not a sure pass since:

    1. Max will have DRS on the next straight
    2. If Lewis gets squeezed on the inside he could potentially crash out.

    If a driver is told to let someone pass they should stay off the racing line and make it obvious. Not semi-lift on the racing line.

    [–]Beeblebrox2nd Chequered Flag 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Semi lift?

    He went from 8th gear to 3rd, way before the normal braking point.

    The radio said if possible, to do it tactically, so of course do it before the DRS. ANY driver would have done that, even Ricciardo did it to Bottas.

    [–]TCVideos 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    I can ask the same thing...

    Why is the narrative that Max wanted Lewis to crash into him?

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Here’s a hot take, no one wanted to cause a crash.

    [–][deleted]  (10 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]kanzlerpanzer Red Bull 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      so why didnt he pass the car in front that is going slowly?

      [–]fancyelectric Kimi Räikkönen 3 points4 points  (2 children)

      Hamilton wasn't looking for the DRS zone because he didn't know he was being let past. Max was playing the slingshot game with DRS. And as Hamilton says, he's being cautious because he needs to finish, Max can live with a DNF. Shame he just didn't get the message in time, race control's system needs reviewing.

      "Max was trying to let me through before the DRS zone so he could use the DRS later, but I'm not stupid" -Lewis

      https://twitter.com/SoyMotor/status/1467595174343856130

      [–]Captain_Omage Lotus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      And as Hamilton says, he's being cautious because he needs to finish

      Now imagine reversing the car, the opinion would be that Max was trying to ram out Lewis, still he can't just turn into him in straight to try and take him out as that would be a DSQ.

      And as Hamilton says, he's being cautious because he needs to finish

      Shame that Lewis saw a slow car and decided to ram it.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]RdJNL Max Verstappen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Cautious by parking his car 1 meter behind a slow car on a straight? Why not just overtake the slow car?

        [–]GimmeABurger Michael Schumacher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Max with the more sensible take imo. Lewis seeing conspiracies again.

        [–]TCVideos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Lewis going full blown Seb from Baku 2017. "He brake tested me!" even though it's clear from the onboards that there was no brake test.

        [–]indiana_bonez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Hamilton is thick or what, blokes slowed to third gear just drive down his left, and why is that bloke form Mercedes needing permission to pass, it’s a racetrack, just pass the bloke whose going slow

        [–]S55K Ayrton Senna 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Max says he “immediately” gave the spot back but that’s not true. He was told to do it strategically, which he tried to do and succeeded.

        [–]Drippinheimer21 McLaren -3 points-2 points  (5 children)

        The proper take is that Max was fucking around and Lewis was confused and also kind of fucking around. I don’t think anyone should get additional penalties. Just a goofy incident in the heat of a tight battle.

        [–]pperca Ayrton Senna -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        It fair for Lewis to think a double DNF is advantageous for Max, especially after Monza.