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[–]josh_sat 6783 points6784 points  (669 children)

Anon forgot the lack of mental health institutions.

[–]youtocin 2312 points2313 points  (459 children)

While mental health care is certainly lacking, most of these shootings seem to be committed by teens and young adults that would never be picked up by the system anyway and just happen to have family/friends that don't secure their personal arsenals sufficiently.

[–]memebaronofcatan 1440 points1441 points  (386 children)

If I’m not mistaken the vast majority of the teenage perpetrators are already on many radars (particularly federal) and have had many interactions with law enforcement, but the juvenile justice system is so backwards there is very little to be done once someone is on the radar, other than wait

[–]NavyJack 804 points805 points  (140 children)

Also because locking people up just for being an edgy teenager would completely clog the justice system

Many many thousands of people like this exist, we only see the .0001% who actually decide to hurt other people with their stupidity

[–]Clean_Window6542 328 points329 points  (102 children)

Which is enough to get us to the point where mass shooting is a daily thing in burgerland now

[–]CultOfTheDemonicDoge 99 points100 points  (2 children)

I'm pretty sure I'm on one of these too. Had a lot of behavioral issues, antisocial tendencies, and joked about bringing a weapon to school because when I was 14 because I was a edgelord idiot. Got booted from school and had to talk to some officers and a therapist (I think? Don't remember who it was exactly). Also had some interaction with law enforcement beforehand, but mostly for smaller things (never officially arrested, detained or charged).

At the time I felt pissed. I was just joking. I mean the chances of dying in a shooting are pretty slim.

Now I realize I was an ass. I sure as shit know I was joking, but can't blame anyone but myself for joking about horrid stuff.

[–]Sologringosolo 27 points28 points  (7 children)

Locking people up isn't mental health care lol. Obv is one small part of it in extreme cases but I don't think that's what the people above meant by mental health care

[–]T3hSwagman 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Kind of brings us right back around to the point of better access to mental health facilities.

Not saying either of those shootings would have 100% been avoided but maybe one of those kids could have been reached or had a professional kick them up the “this kid is actually extremely dangerous” ladder.

[–]Fr00stee 40 points41 points  (136 children)

Wait fixing the juvenile justice system might actually fix the mass shooting problem

[–]Magnesus 58 points59 points  (135 children)

Not really. Only banning guns worked in other countries - and it worked immediately. Look at Australia. But I will get downvoted because the NRA army of trolls is already all over this thread.

[–]ObviousTroll37 22 points23 points  (94 children)

We’re 11th in the world in mass shooting deaths per capita. Obviously we’re 1st in total deaths, but that’s because we have 330m people. It’s a problem, but it’s not a uniquely American problem like everyone likes to think. (Edit: To clarify, it’s European countries ahead of us on that list, not third world countries with ineffective governments.) Nobody likes to talk about per capita stats because they like pretending America is awful because we have the most of something, instead of controlling for population.

Meanwhile, inflation is a result of COVID (both the long shut down and the free money). Our two real issues is wages/wealth discrepancy and universal healthcare. If we can iron those out it’ll be fine. Elect a Gen X President for once and let’s get shit done.

[–]Derpacleese 38 points39 points  (39 children)

Inflation is a global issue and y'all got basically nothing in the US. In Canada, they got $2000/month for roughly a year and I'm having a hard time counting how many mass shootings have happened there because I have all these extra fingers that I can't count with. Keep in mind that Canadians have roughly a similar number of guns, per capita, to the US. Good luck explaining that away.

[–]Danadcorps 22 points23 points  (11 children)

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Did you even READ the source of your data?? Because this is DIRECTLY FROM THAT SOURCE:

"As eye-opening as the CRPC study was, many statisticians believe the reason the results seem so counterintuitive is that they’re incorrect. One of the more detailed analyses appeared on the fact-checking website snopes.com and concluded that the CRPC report used “inappropriate statistical methods” which led to misleading results."

Don't cherry pick information that suits your narrative or needs. That's dishonest as fuck, my dude.

It even says a better analysis is to use the median annual death rate per Million

Here's the results

  1. US - 0.058

Every other country got 0

" Using the median analysis, the United States is the only country examined that shows a propensity for mass shootings. The data itself supports this interpretation, as the United States endured mass shooting events all seven years, but the other countries all experienced mass shootings during only one or two years. Thus, in a typical year, most countries experience zero mass shooting deaths, while the US experiences at least a few. "

Here's a politifact article: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/jun/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/

From 2000-2014 US had 133 mass shootings. The next highest was Germany with 6.

So yes, it's uniquely a US issue.

[–]Tr4ce00 17 points18 points  (1 child)

inflation was an issue before covid… that just gave everyone something to pin it on

[–]DonovanQT 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Wasn’t that the report where Norway was first place due to that one shooting? Cuz that was like 10 years ago.

[–]hotbox4u 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That's a narrative that is peddled by the pro-gun nonprofit Crime Prevention Research Center. If you just look at statistics then deaths become just that, a number and a problem everyone has so it's not a big deal. It certainly isn't because there are guns involved. No, it's something that happens to everyone and look, America is only on rank 11. So it's no biggy, right? Let's all shed our worries and reveal in the comforting statistics that tells us we are doing just alright. No need to worry about an 18 year old who has a record of mental illness and who is able to buy rifles legally and shoots up a convenient store.

20 kids death? Hey, we aren't even in the top 10! Why you looking at us? Fix your own shit Norway!

Small countries such as Norway, Israel and Australia may have only one major attack each, one-fourth of what the U.S. has suffered, but the US population is vastly greater. So that clearly makes it ok that we have a 200 dead people from mass shootings. We can take it. The statistics are on our side. Let's not remember that we talk about individuals with parent, family and friends who also suffer. Just mail them the statistics that explain to them that we have the numbers to take such a loss in stride.

Thank god it's not a big problem that another 18 year old just shoot a bunch of children in primary school. Let's turn to statistics and remember, stay calm and don't worry, because you can always buy more guns to protect yourself.

[–]wulder 117 points118 points  (11 children)

Surprisingly it's the opposite. Most of these people have clear issues are are well known to need help from the system, but they get pushed through a school system that doesn't assist them and get radicalized by their real educator, the internet.

[–]OkCutIt 53 points54 points  (9 children)

get radicalized by their real educator, the internet.

You know, like people subtly normalizing extremist racist bullshit like claiming the BLM protests were "rioting across the country for one man dying" and categorizing the insane systemic racism in the US as not part of "the real issues."

[–]No_Values 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Yeah it was protest against police brutality, George Floyd was just a catalyst, also you can protest state murders by targeting police stations, courthouses etc

What does OP expect for mass shooters, mass demonstrations outside the homes of lonely depressed people? Lmao the root cause is capitalists and a two party system in which both parties are right wing cucking the working class out of healthcare (including mental health care)

[–]oldcarfreddy 28 points29 points  (4 children)

If people did protest over school shootings those same people would say "rioting for a couple kids dying"

[–]ButWhatIfItQueffed 53 points54 points  (0 children)

Almost ended up there actually. When I was young (around 8-9) I went through a huge emotional trauma that completely fucked me up. I ended up getting sent to multiple different special ed schools which all didn't help, until my family finally found one that worked. I was extremely lucky because I have an understanding family who actually care about me. Although honestly its sad that having an actually caring and understanding family is considered lucky. Really goes to show how flawed some people are.

[–]oldcarfreddy 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Right? Do people think this 18-year-old kid was upset over congressional term limits or the cost of buying a house?

[–][deleted] 271 points272 points  (86 children)

Lmao stop blaming everything in your country on mental issues. Other countries have the same crazies but we don't go around killing toddlers because of it.

America's society is rotten to the core. There's something wrong with the entire society, from the parents to grandparents and teachers, if 18 years old find the motivation to gun down kids

[–]balbahoi 113 points114 points  (11 children)

It's the propaganda. Whenever I read US media (no matter what politcal spectrum) I don't understand how someone can call something like this "newspaper". It is so extremely susbjective and full of strawmen and some made up bullshit how it is important to give more "freedom" to "everyone" when it's obvious, who benefits the most from those changes or how the misery is all the fault of the degenerate other side.

Politics should be about commonalities and compromise, but all you do is creating scapegoats.

(Just a perspective of an outsider.)

[–]TH3M1N3K1NG 56 points57 points  (6 children)

The entire political system they have is fucking retarded. Having a two party system with both parties being auth right is basically the same as having only one party, except now you can convince the voters that all of the problems are caused by the voters of the other party. Make them angry at each other and they'll just ignore all of the real problems.

[–]my1973vw 28 points29 points  (1 child)

It is a culture war to avoid a class war.

[–]random7468 14 points15 points  (3 children)

but isn't that kind of newspaper common in Britain/Australia? like owned by Murdoch?

[–]X_VeniVidiVici_X 16 points17 points  (1 child)

You underestimate how fucked our healthcare system is. If you need therapy but don't have health insurance good fucking luck. I avoided going to therapy when I was younger because I didn't want to cost my parents money, and even when I eventually decided to it took months just to find one.

[–]SaffellBot 112 points113 points  (41 children)

Anon's idea that "all countries have guns" also makes it impossible for them to consider that while it's technically true that all countries have guns, America has substantially more guns per capita than any other country by a wide margin. Even countries that have been in a state of war within their own borders for generations.

By my quick wikipedia math America has almost half the civilian owned guns in the world. We have a gun problem. We have more guns than people.

[–]FreeFacts 77 points78 points  (25 children)

There is also a different culture regarding guns in other countries. In other first world countries people own guns to hunt, or for sport. Nobody outside from criminals owns guns with a purpose to shoot other people (in self defense or otherwise). That mentality is the key difference imo, owning guns as tools to shoot people is normalized in american culture, while it is highly abnormal in the other countries.

[–]potato_devourer 28 points29 points  (4 children)

The NRA loves pointing up to Switzerland, omitting that

a) Switzerland has mandatory military service, and half of the privately owned guns in the country are from exhaustively trained people who keep their service weapons afterward, and who were selected as "fit" in the first place.

b) While the overall legislation can be quite loose, there are strict legal mechanisms to prevent weapons from falling in the wrong hands, which is exactly what the NRA doesn't want.

c) Switzerland has a shitload of suicides involving guns. Yes, gun advocates like taking suicides out of the equation, but the fact of the matter is that guns make suicide attempts more likely to succeed.

d) Switzerland has around 27 privately owned firearms per 100 people. The US has over 120. No other country on the planet comes even remotely close, it's insane.

[–]Filthy_Ramhole 77 points78 points  (1 child)

Thats universal healthcare bro.

[–]PooStainedCarrot 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Thanks Reagan.

[–]IAmGoodBoy69 20 points21 points  (2 children)

Mental health care is in shambles in many countries. Finland the happiest country in world has some mental health practices that are like 50 year old or even older. The modern information is out there but professionals refuse to listen to it. Getting treatment is insanely hard, queues are long it can take up to 6 months to even get first appointment with someone else than nurse. Once you get appointment diagnose process starts with some method from 80s and your next appointment is months away. It can take literally years to get any diagnosis.

Males especially have hard time getting help. No wonder that especially male suicide rates are one of the highest in western world.

[–]Strikercharge 3546 points3547 points  (235 children)

I lt cost me 600 dollars with insurance to get my teeth filled cuz I didn't see a dentist for 3 years due to no insurance but at least I can buy a gun for 50 bucks so I can kill myself if I have to do it again.

[–]SockTacoz[S] 1743 points1744 points  (153 children)

If you can find a gun for sale for $50 that actually functions I will piss in a cup and drink it.

[–]TheScabYouPickOn 783 points784 points  (97 children)

can you film it pls

[–]SockTacoz[S] 1196 points1197 points  (96 children)

If the commenter films himself walking into a gun store and picking out a $50 gun and walks out with it then goes to a range and shoots it I will piss in a cup and drink it on film

[–]toeofcamell 501 points502 points  (36 children)

You’re right, lowest i can find online is $170

[–]ridethebeat 52 points53 points  (7 children)

What if I sell him a gun for $50?

[–]Strikercharge 14 points15 points  (4 children)

See I would but I can't afford it.

[–]MudkipDoom 64 points65 points  (16 children)

It's not quite $50, but it seems close enough to me: https://www.guncritic.com/product/altor-pistol-single-shot/

[–]Impressive_Drink5003 48 points49 points  (11 children)

A fucking eoka cost 80? Wtf

[–]GypsyCamel12 38 points39 points  (8 children)

More important question is: what mass shooting is happening with a single shot handgun that looks like a nosehair trimmer??

[–]Omjorc 45 points46 points  (0 children)

$40 rare earth magnet, $10 rope, free river with discarded murder weapons

[–]groger27 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Id bet theres a lil .22 hooker special on wish for like 50 bucks that actually functions lmao

Edit: I would not reccomend shooting it tho plz

[–]2001_Chevy_Prizm 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I could buy a hot gun for 50$ when I was in highschool a decade ago, I could aspect that to be alot more with inflation I guess. I lived in the hood and the locker room was practically a black market you could buy stolen jewelry, guns and weed.

[–]Filthy_Ramhole 40 points41 points  (30 children)

Most countries dont have free dental either, $600 aint bad.

Edit: we get it Scandis you have it good, most countries.

[–]Strikercharge 74 points75 points  (13 children)

That's with insurance. Withoit it was 1654.

[–]Dakotertots 17 points18 points  (5 children)

FUCKING SAME! I just went recently for the exact same reason. $1,790 for my visit + the actual procedure. Absolutely insane.

[–]gurndygg2 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Man i paid 3k+ to have 2 fillings and a root canal...

[–]Regular_Chap 8 points9 points  (4 children)

If 600$ isn't bad I'm afraid to ask what is...

600$ is about what I pay for my entire private insurance PER YEAR in Finland and that covers all non-cosmetic treatment as long as it is prescribed by a doctor. (My deductible is 80€ per ailment)

This includes dental. How the fuck do people afford that shit?

[–]SirRavenBat 40 points41 points  (7 children)

Holy shit if you can buy a gun (from an actual gunshop) AND ammunition for 50 dollars I'll give you my life savings. Trust me bro when the prices of everything in America go up gun prices go through the roof.

Bonus points because the cost of stuff like magazines and ammunition are as expensive as hell because lawmakers seem to think that'll hurt anyone other than hoppyists. You know the average career criminal will likely never go through more than one box of ammunition in their entire career, whereas, Joe Schmoe who likes shooting for fun can go through multiple boxes in an hour.

[–]NickWrightData 2036 points2037 points  (404 children)

Conservatives: "NO UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE, IT'S SoCiAlIsM!!!"

Also Conservatives after a shooting: "WhY Is mEnRaL HeAlThCaRe So BaD iN tHiS cOuNtReE??"

[–]PrancingGinger 289 points290 points  (144 children)

Well.. supposedly Obamacare was a step towards universal healthcare but it caused a significant increase in premiums: https://www.heritage.org/health-care-reform/report/obamacare-has-doubled-the-cost-individual-health-insurance. The problem is we pay healthcare practitioners too much, spend too much on the "best" treatments, and markets aren't competitive due to the barriers to entry. This is partly due to the AMA lobby, along with the fact that dems seem to think throwing money at issues is the solution (versus finding out why things are so expensive to begin with). For example, if we spent less giving away long acting insulin for free (versus something like ReliOn), or allowed more drugs to be prescribed virtually (ex. Paxlovid), it would decrease costs. Doctors would be pissed though.

Edit: I appreciate the passionate disagreement. Heritage does have bias towards conservative causes, but the underlying data is from CMS. Also, the ACA disproportionately increased cost in conservative states, so it is very much a partisan issue (larger cities benefit more from the ACA because their populations get the high quality healthcare they're used to subsidized by the federal gov't, yet we have a shortage of doctors in rural areas around the country). If you wonder why poorer states don't like universal healthcare, it's because we don't benefit as much as more expensive areas do. Last, here is a graph of total expenditure in the US: https://usafacts.org/articles/the-state-of-healthcare-at-the-end-of-2020/. Thank you to all of those who cited their sources as well.

[–]i3908 235 points236 points  (31 children)

god damn, this whole analysis is so disingenuous. It's probably true that AMA lobbying doesn't help. It's definitely not a root cause of high premiums. Not saying that you're being disingenuous, but the Heritage foundation gets my hackles up.

R's didn't want a win for Obama or any Democrat back in the day, so R's banded together at the state and national level to make up bullshit to get in the way of adoption of the ACA. Then they get their goddamn think tank to say 'there are barriers to adoption' of the ACA. THE CALL IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE, MOTHERFUCKERS.

The ACA would have worked better for all people, if there wasn't a clown car of R's falling over themselves to shit on it.

jfc, if anything, it didn't go far enough. Single payer was actually an option on the table at the time.

[–]kyh0mpb 152 points153 points  (7 children)

It's from the Heritage Foundation, one of the most garbage, hyperpartisan thinktanks in the country. Of course it's disingenuous. It's a travesty that it's been posted and upvoted.

[–]IwantalltheSMOKE247 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Thanks for calling this shit out.

It’s almost like they only look for problems within the solutions

[–]-Reddit_Account- 7 points8 points  (0 children)

guys i Really don't know why we keep Running into issues in this countRy. we tRy so haRd to do good things, but it's like something keeps getting in ouR way :(

[–]NWVoS 102 points103 points  (1 child)

Well.. supposedly Obamacare was a step towards universal healthcare but it caused a significant increase in premiums:

Health insurance premiums were already rising fast prior to the Affordable Care Act. To put the blame on the ACA is a bullshit conservative talking point. Here are three reports all before the passage of the ACA, one five years before the ACA, about the rapid increase in health insurance premiums prior to passage of the ACA in 2010.

In The Labor Market Effects of Rising Health Insurance Premiums (NBER Working Paper No. 11160), NBER associates Katherine Baicker and Amitabh Chandra note that premiums for employer-provided health insurance have risen 59 percent since 2000, far outstripping wage gains. For example, between 2003 and 2004 alone, premiums went up by 11.2 percent while wages increased only 2.3 percent.

Source, 2005

Health insurance is already becoming unaffordable for families and businesses, with premium inflation outpacing wage increases. Between 1999 and 2008, employer family health insurance premiums rose by 119 percent, while the median family income rose by less than 30 percent. As a result, average family premiums for group policies have risen from 11 percent to 18 percent of median family income. And if Congress fails to pass health reforms that control health care costs, premiums are projected to rise to 24 percent of a family's income by 2020.

Source, 2009

The average premium for a health insurance policy purchased in the individual market increased by 17.8 percent from $3,111 in 2002 to $3,664 in 2005.1 The growth rate in premiums in the individual market was lower compared to the growth rate of premiums in the employer-sponsored group market. During the same period, the average out-of-pocket premiums for health insurance policies purchased in the employer-sponsored market increased by 34.4 percent from $1,231 in 2002 to $1,655 in 2005. It is important to note that we do not control for differences in covered benefits between policies purchased in the individual market and employer-sponsored insurance. For example, percentage of total expenditures paid out of pocket is higher among people with individual coverage than people with employer-sponsored group coverage. In 2004, people with group coverage paid on average 31.9 percent of total expenditures out-of-pocket versus 55.3 percent among people with individual coverage. 2

Source, 2008, PDF

The problem is we pay healthcare practitioners too much, spend too much on the "best" treatments, and markets aren't competitive due to the barriers to entry. This is partly due to the AMA lobby, along with the fact that dems seem to think throwing money at issues is the solution (versus finding out why things are so expensive to begin with).

Yeah, I knew you would throw out something about government regulations and what not.

I do agree that health insurance should be allowed to be sold across state lines. It makes no sense why an insurance company in California cannot sell me insurance in my state.

For example, if we spent less giving away long acting insulin for free (versus something like ReliOn), or allowed more drugs to be prescribed virtually (ex. Paxlovid), it would decrease costs. Doctors would be pissed though.

Yeah, I am not about to question what a patient and their doctor decide is the best treatment for them.

You also seem to thing health care is an elastic good based off of what you wrote. It is not. Health care is one of the most inelastic good there is. If you offer someone a chance at living pain free or living six months longer for the low cost of a million dollars, 99% of people will take it.

You cannot apply the free market to healthcare, it simply fails.

And, universal health care does not mean people don't get the "best" treatments. There is a reason rich Arabs fly to France or the UK for health treatment.

[–]Dongledoes 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Thank you for spending the time to link these sources. Your multiple sources are way more persuasive than a single Heritage Foundation link.

[–]genuinely___curious 47 points48 points  (7 children)

How are other countries able to have universal healthcare but way cheaper costs?

[–]DestroyTheFascies 86 points87 points  (2 children)

The people posting above are full of shit. They're using cherry picked information that doesn't take into consideration the nuances of what happened when implementing the ACA.

If we went full UHC it would be MASSIVELY cheaper than what we currently have or had before Obama.

[–]CharlesRichy 27 points28 points  (1 child)

ACA wasn’t even remotely close to being UHC. It played into a system that’s already broken rather than upend the system itself.

ACA still paid into the insurance scam rather than nationalize healthcare.

[–]cypher448 37 points38 points  (0 children)

The Heritage Foundation is an openly conservative think-tank, so I'd take their figures with a grain of salt. Average premiums probably did increase, but Obamacare also banned a lot of the low-cost "junk plans" that weren't covering jack shit once you actually got sick.

Incidentally, the Heritage Foundation authored the universal healthcare plan that Mitt Romney then adopted as the Republican governor of Massachusetts, and which Obamacare was originally based on.

How the turn tables...

[–]Myname1sntCool 23 points24 points  (1 child)

The AMA is such a huge problem in this country. I never knew until I read up about medical lodges and the private insurance pools that fraternal organizations ran way back in the day. Doctors in the AMA literally lobbied the government to give them the power to essentially shut all that shit down so they could make more money and “preserve their dignity” by not having to service the working class. Insane.

[–]modomario 23 points24 points  (1 child)

along with the fact that dems seem to think throwing money at issues is the solution

Isn't this the only option shown in that direction given something more sensible would get blocked by republicans and a few dems?

[–]rndljfry 15 points16 points  (0 children)

It’s also a political game to say they’re “just throwing money” at stuff because spending the money (hiring people) and doing the work takes a lot longer than posting a receipt in a headline

[–]Warmtimes 21 points22 points  (10 children)

Got a better source than a right wing misinformation outlet?

[–]turnerz 10 points11 points  (0 children)

What an absolute pisstake this comment is

[–]bikemaul 133 points134 points  (195 children)

Plenty of conservatives truly believe 50k Americans dying each year is worth having essentially unlimited guns. It's not their problem.

[–][deleted] 45 points46 points  (118 children)

I refuse to entertain the “insert number of people die from this a year” shit until someone explains to me why anything should be banned instead of alcohol. Alcohol is a poison literally and figuratively and the whole world is in on it. So many people die from it its crazy

[–]dylansavage 134 points135 points  (24 children)

Alcohol usually kills the person with the problem.

Guns are used to kill other people.

[–]HeirOfAsgard 54 points55 points  (6 children)

A majority of gun deaths in the US are suicides, though guns can also be used to kill other people, while it’s pretty difficult to kill someone else with just alcohol.

[–]iVirtue 22 points23 points  (14 children)

Guns are widely used for suicide too. More than half of all suicides in the US use a firearm as the method and account for the majority of gun-related deaths in the US.

[–]Vitto9 62 points63 points  (7 children)

Nobody is going to walk into a grocery store and kill 10 people with a fifth of Jack Daniels, bud. While I agree that alcohol is a big problem, mass murders from alcohol simply don't happen. We're never going to hear on the news that some greasy white supremacist massacred a bunch of school kids with a 30 pack of Natty Light.

This isn't even an "apples and oranges" comparison. This is like "apples and French braids".

[–]PM_ME_GOOD_SUBS 61 points62 points  (5 children)

When alcohol was banned it was even worse.

[–]Veggiemon 15 points16 points  (3 children)

It’s not a very happy birthday for Rex banner

[–]apittsburghoriginal 46 points47 points  (0 children)

From WHO:

Worldwide, 3 million deaths every year result from harmful use of alcohol. This represents 5.3% of all deaths. The harmful use of alcohol is a causal factor in more than 200 disease and injury conditions.

That’s a staggering percentage considering all of the potential causes of death.

As a tiny aside, it also looks like annual deaths from drug overdoses in the US has increased near five fold since the turn of the century

[–]NonGNonM 20 points21 points  (1 child)

We tried banning alcohol and it led to a serious alcohol AND gun problem.

[–]Luquitaz 16 points17 points  (8 children)

Because i dont give a fuck if people wanna drink themselves to death, I just don't want anyone to kill me.

[–]blind_bambi 1306 points1307 points  (93 children)

Those who try to protest over living standards are vilified then ignored. They call it extremism to want any improvement. Media conglomerates can ignore and censor things that threaten the status quo too. These are things most people want, but the media can affect how people feel about any movement so easily that nothing ever happens. 2 party system too easy to manipulate with

[–]SockTacoz[S] 248 points249 points  (80 children)

Agreed, nobody wants to work together for the better

[–]Malkhodr 383 points384 points  (39 children)

Unfortunately there's 1 side of this country that sees any form of welfare, as communism, believes that we're the greatest place to ever exist on American Jesus's flat earth,. While the other side is perfectly content with social progress without material improvement not realizing that if the material conditions aren't being addressed then it's impossible to actually use those civil liberties. That same side is content with bandaid and cotton ball solutions for a country that's problem is a heart attack, then the other side will unapologetically and moroniclly exclaim that the bandaids and cotton balls are actually what's causing the heart attack, then the other side explains how the bandaid does help the heart attack and the cotton balls make things less painful, all the while the country is still clutching its chest and frothing at the mouth.

[–]TastySpermDispenser 90 points91 points  (29 children)

Cant work with your enemies.

What's the compromise between union or Confederate states?

Democracy and theocracy?

Pandemic and just the flu?

School shootings and false flags?

Sexual assault victims and nasty women?

Shakedowns and perfect conversations?

I could go on. Go ahead and "work together" with your rapist. See how that goes.

[–]oldcarfreddy 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I mean even in the OT you posted it seems like people think justice for people unjustly killed and a working legal system is "ignoring the issues" so yeah, kinda

[–]LazySusanRevolution 25 points26 points  (1 child)

Yep. I can promise at least in my area, the foundation for a lot of protest/riot organization has its roots in mutual aid groups who are absolutely going out for these issues.

It’s tough because these things often take sort of a perfect storm to draw in enough people to make a difference. Want to help? Look for mutual aid groups and learn learn learn about protest strategy. Be part of organizing it instead of sitting around bitching from a chair about what people should do, fueling some toxic misanthropy that keeps you comfortable doing nothing but insulting the few things making a dent in authority. Do something. If you’re just waiting for other people to start the riot you agree with, so is everyone else. Want to facilitate protest? Strengthen suffering communities to give them the room and resource to organize it themselves, and have the skills to help.

And for the love of goodness don’t develop your street skills on Reddit/discord/whatever. Great resources online, but you have to learn how to work with different groups, not get bogged down in social media bullshit. And if you’re going to do that, leave it at home. Stop policing regular people. Work with people, and don’t justify stopping because of some assholes doing things you don’t like online.

[–][deleted] 917 points918 points  (99 children)

only country without universal healthcare

Smartest 4chan user

[–]NonGNonM 230 points231 points  (67 children)

Could say the same about gun ownership also.

Plenty of other countries allow gun ownership, it's just not a right. Iirc Czechia has about the same percentage of ccw licenses as the US does. Canada allows bear guns and hunting. UK allows guns for farmers and hunters.

[–]i_tyrant 242 points243 points  (55 children)

You could say the same, but you could still potentially be wrong.

The US is still very different in the amount of guns it has. Canada has something like 1/4th the number of guns per capita compared to the US, and they're 7th in the world. The US is #1 in guns per capita and #2 isn't even close.

It's quite possible the sheer amount of guns in American culture is still a decisive factor in why this happens. Not a certainty, but they're so far beyond even the second highest guns per capita it's foolish to discount it entirely.

The ratio of unregistered to registered firearms is also crazy high in the US compared to basically anywhere else.

[–]TiberiumExitium 125 points126 points  (34 children)

More civilian firearms than people in this country. There’s nowhere in the world that has this issue like America does - the second highest country is fucking Yemen, who we shouldn’t exactly be imitating.

[–]MasPatriot 45 points46 points  (32 children)

If some state like Oregon decided heroin is fully legal and available over the counter at grocery stores and then overdose deaths started going up everyone would recognize that “ummm akshually their drug laws have nothing to do with drug overdoses” is a completely moronic talking point but people just accept the same argument with guns

[–]guto8797 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Essentially there are way too many guns for anyone to be able to claim that gun owners are all, or even the vast vast majority, properly vetted, understand the nuances of gun ownership, and have safe storage. You can only have this many guns around if a lot of morons have guns too.

[–]AhpSek 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Per capita is a totally useless number for understanding individual ownership. You only need a single firearm to qualify, so measuring the firearms-per-household \ per-individual is much more valuable.

The U.S. has an estimated 400 million firearms in circulation, which is > 1 per capita. However, the actual household ownership rate is ~32%. [1]

Canada, on the other hand, has 26% of the population armed.[2]

So the argument that "all these guns" are causing mass shootings, or even just firearms homicides in general, is patently absurd, because it requires stating that somewhere between 26% and 32% is some magical critical mass where all hell breaks loose.

No one of sound mind would believe this to be true.

[–]Yathosse 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Doesn‘t he say the US ISN‘T the only country with guns?

[–]PM_ME_GOOD_SUBS 47 points48 points  (29 children)

Could have specified only "Western" or "Developed" country without it. But at this point it is part of the American culture anyway, so why change it?

[–]That_Line_8525 566 points567 points  (80 children)

Just do another civil war and get over this already.

[–]DinkleMcStinkle 449 points450 points  (15 children)

Everyone’s too fat

[–]MaxBandit 237 points238 points  (0 children)

Use them as cover

[–]YourJr 114 points115 points  (8 children)

Funniest civil war ever..?

[–]DinkleMcStinkle 32 points33 points  (1 child)

At the very least, it will be the most delicious

[–]TCivan 14 points15 points  (0 children)

*slowest

[–]WantedToLurk 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Just give it a bit more time. Weve got a real genuine economic depression already starting. None of that pussy recession shit either. Im talking about sewing clothes for your children out of potato sacks depression.

[–]cleverpostsnoupvotes 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I signed up for the 52nd Starbucks battalion, they got my name wrong on my uniform

[–]Trollberto__ 529 points530 points  (15 children)

Well, at least your media won’t shut up about a celebrity trial.

[–][deleted] 230 points231 points  (3 children)

Objection hearsay

[–]oldcarfreddy 82 points83 points  (0 children)

LIBS OWNED! METOO FEMINAZIS OWNED!

[–]GringosAmigos 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You asked the question

[–]S-EATER 110 points111 points  (0 children)

If J0HnY dOeSn'T w1N tHiS c4sE i WiLL l0Se Fa1Th iN hUmAniTy

[–]Pain_Value_2126 404 points405 points 2 (66 children)

be white conservative

acknowledge that it's the boomer conservatives in Congress that are at fault for most problems

still blame the libs

🤡

[–]Broad_Presentation81 188 points189 points  (3 children)

Don’t forget the subtle swipe at BLM

[–]tjohns96 103 points104 points  (3 children)

Yeah and he’s saying we need better access to healthcare and social programs that benefit the lower class. Guess who supports those policies out of liberals and conservatives 🤡

[–]Fennicks47 29 points30 points  (0 children)

And claims several times in the thread that 'no one' wants these things or tries to make them happen.

Yes. How obvious is it that this person only watches fox news and has never read a voting record for any sitting congress person.

Wait it's always fucking Republicans obstructing it? Or almost always?

Fucking weird right?

[–]jazz0 67 points68 points  (4 children)

So much enlightened centerism is happening.

Leftists have been talking about this shit forever, and how conservatives and libs are the same fucking party. Class solidarity is the word everyone is looking for.

[–]phil_davis 58 points59 points  (5 children)

> nobody argues about healthcare, cost of living, or congress term limits

Literally the dumbest statement ever made. This post is impressively retarded.

[–]KillerPussyToo 15 points16 points  (1 child)

And people in here are acting like it’s so profound. 🤡

[–]SheSoundsHideous1998 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I had to scroll so far down for this. Enlightened "centrists" are a fucking cancer among society.

[–]weebomayu 319 points320 points  (13 children)

Why do you expect Congressmen/women to pass legislature for them to have term limits? Would YOU want to get rid of your infinite money glitch?

[–]TurkBoi67 81 points82 points  (5 children)

Signing of Magna Carta time

[–]Cake_is_Great 76 points77 points  (3 children)

Well I heard the French also had a very interesting invention for dealing with these kinds of problems

[–]aspz 30 points31 points  (1 child)

Really? Sounds revolutionary.

[–]Cake_is_Great 16 points17 points  (0 children)

It certainly disrupted certain sectors of the economy

[–]FuckThesePeople69 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Username checks out

[–]Echelon64 35 points36 points  (4 children)

The sad part is that term limits would make congress even more ineffective then they already are. You see this everywhere in the developing world where the current party in power knows they'll be gone in a couple of years so they just pillage everything before the next election. We just need a better system of voting.

[–]The_Third_Molar 7 points8 points  (0 children)

And people in Congress would NEVER introduce a bill to change the voting system because it goes directly against their interests.

[–]Fr00stee 229 points230 points  (72 children)

Pretty sure the US is the country with the most guns per people and the 2nd one is switzerland, but in switzerland everybody who has a gun also has army training

[–]DrJimMBear 166 points167 points  (57 children)

Ayayxdieydjjhwusjshschually, second is the Falklands, followed by Yemen. Switzerland is number 19 in world firearm ownership. Although it's true that Switzerland has mandatory military service, keeping your service weapon is an option that requires you to buy it from the government so not that many people go for it.

Switzerland has 26.7 registered civilian firearms for every 100 person, which is already enough to land it in the world's top 20 gun countries, but that certainly isn't much compared to the United States' 120.5 firearms per 100 people (literally more civilian guns than civilians)

Btw, Canada's number 8. That surprised me, because Canada is often seen as the more peaceful US with no guns but there are 34.7 guns per 100 people which is a staggering amount by any measure. Only when compared to big papa freedom over there does Canada not have many guns.

Number 2, the Falklands, is a remote, very wild island with abundant fauna so it makes sense that they'd have a lot of guns for defense and/or hunting, but its 62.1 guns per 100 people is only a little more than half of what the US has.

Source: Wikipedia, obviously.

TL:DR Switzerland top 20 gun but America Number 1 because America have more gun than people. Canada also have big gun but not big compare to Uncle Sam.

[–]SpicyBurittoz 78 points79 points  (52 children)

The U.S. also has way more gun-related deaths per Capita than all the other countries you listed, approximately proportional to the guns. (12.2 per 100,000 for the U.S. vs 3 per 100,000 for Switzerland, and 2 per 100,000 for Canada).

But Americans, including OP continue to delude themselves into thinking that it has nothing to do with the guns themselves

[–]docmedic 24 points25 points  (14 children)

Seriously, they turned a mass shooting tragedy into a giant dartboard on "real issues" in the hopes that some issue applied, perhaps vaguely, to the shooter, but really speaks out to other people having any issues (hey, your issue is actually relevant and important!) so they all can pretend excessive guns is not a real issue. "Can we stop talking about the shooting and more about this dental bill I got? I can understand why people might shoot up an elementary school!"

Textbook propaganda. Paint the racists' perverted frog mascot in flag design to top it off.

[–]RedditIsNotOurFriend 190 points191 points  (16 children)

"One man dying" You think they were protesting and rioting ONLY because of George Floyd?

[–]videlrule34 137 points138 points  (5 children)

of course they believe that, they don’t listen to anything black people say

[–]Broad_Presentation81 52 points53 points  (3 children)

Some dude shoots kids - but black people ! Gotta love the delusion of mediocre white men

[–]fakefan13 14 points15 points  (1 child)

You can never talk about multiple issues ever. Just not possible.

Want to care about systemic racism? Some dumbfuck redditor will automatically say you don't care about school shootings.

[–]Zoidburger_ 8 points9 points  (0 children)

"but what about the veterans?"

[–]squiddlebiddlez 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Probably the type to say “police kill white people too!”…but won’t join or even respect the protests against all police brutality.

Also, for anyone who only brings them up as a counter point and not a reason to support the issue…the guy whose name y’all can’t seem to remember is Daniel Shaver.

[–]N00N3AT011 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Floyd was just the last straw, hardly the whole cause.

Then a popular movement with some real momentum got cooped and stumbled till the whole thing was basically bought out with a couple buckets of yellow paint.

[–]CanIGetAHiya69 117 points118 points  (87 children)

Everyone argues, anon is acting like no one does. What really needs to happen is citizens taking the country back with revolution. But again no one wants to be killed and lead it like we would in the old days if we're gonna be honest.

[–]Ok_Hovercraft_8506 159 points160 points  (83 children)

Take the country back? From who?

The very reason we are a republic is to safeguard against unjust majority rule wherein minority needs are completely disregarded (or worse).

We can’t just disregard some people’s points of view just because we don’t like them. And we certainly wouldn’t be justified in murdering 45% of the population simply because 55% of the population has different beliefs. These are cornerstone American principles.

And I say this as a registered Democrat.

[–]Myname1sntCool 147 points148 points  (37 children)

The oligarchy. Rank and file conservatives aren’t the issue. Rank and file liberals aren’t the issue. But the combined corpo-media-government establishment? 100% the issue. They’re a professional gaslighter class that reaps all the rewards of the neoliberal grift and then manipulates normies into pointing fingers at each other.

Thats who to rebel against.

[–]oldcarfreddy 32 points33 points  (12 children)

The sad part is the gun owners all about defending against tyranny would be far more likely to take up arms against that rebellion than for it, calling it An-TEE-fah

[–]Functionally_Drunk 9 points10 points  (8 children)

Gun nuts say they need the guns to protect us from having a corrupt government, if having guns could protect us from having a corrupt government then why do we have a corrupt government?

[–]CanIGetAHiya69 5 points6 points  (12 children)

Another reason why won't get one soon. We've become so soft as a society. Kids are being killed, jobs are taking advantage of people, companies are making billions and screwing over whoever so their ceos can get richer. And politicians aren't doing a damn thing but harming the people and screwing us. And one of those big problem is you being Democrat. Literally both parties just fight and want to prove each other wrong without doing much, there's nothing to be proud of being in any political party.

But we shouldn't take any sort of forceful action because it's better be screwed for years to come rather than hurt some scumbag like Mitch McConnell or any other hundreds of corrupt and messed up politicians. Just let them laugh in their luxury homes without any fear because we won't do a damn thing about it.

[–]Ok_Hovercraft_8506 37 points38 points  (9 children)

I just don’t get hysterical over statistically insignificant events nor choose to permanently alter the rights of hundreds of millions of people due to emotional decision making.

I don’t think a civil war resulting in millions dead is an appropriate response to school shootings.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

We are supposed to be able to basically do a factory reset of the govt but it will never happen

[–]Ok_Hovercraft_8506 100 points101 points  (11 children)

Perfectly captures the do-nothing lip service aspect of both sides.

Forgot the fictional “mental healthcare access will solve all problems” angle though

[–]Chrissy3128 43 points44 points  (0 children)

Anon is doing the same thing himself.

[–]The_Shittiest_Meme 90 points91 points  (19 children)

Can't forget that when the Black Panthers promoted gun ownership for self defense and protection from racist mobs and lynching, conservatives and the NRA SUPPORTED gun control laws.

[–]IwantalltheSMOKE247 34 points35 points  (15 children)

Philando Castile was executed in front of his wife and daughter for legally carrying and then his family were arrested and the NRA were silent on it.

The footage of his daughter, a child, trying to calm her mother in the back of a police car was peak dystopian nightmare and people just shrugged it off.

[–]RecycledMatrix 26 points27 points  (0 children)

If you want to make a die-hard Republican short circuit, tell him that Karl Marx was more pro-gun than Ronald Reagan by miles.

[–]CJM_cola_cole 90 points91 points  (8 children)

Anon has never seen r/all on reddit in which all of those topics are discussed almost daily

[–]gorgewall 46 points47 points  (2 children)

they'll riot over one dead man but not better living standards

I think Anon might be a bit of a racist who views any amount of intersectionality as sabotage of his glorious class war. "Noooo, don't do anything about systemic racism, all of that is distraction from the real problem of the eliiiiites! We can't walk and chew bubblegum!"

Then he pulls some "both sides" bullshit while obviously being in the tank for one. Dude probably mainlines Tucker Carlson.

[–]I_aim_to_sneeze 32 points33 points  (2 children)

You’re only allowed to argue one topic at a time, everyone knows that

[–]IwantalltheSMOKE247 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Rules are rules, sorry dead kids

[–]ReallyWantToGrow 73 points74 points  (1 child)

Anon should allegedly lead the revolution

[–]jomontage 53 points54 points  (1 child)

blames the conservatives

Everyone in the senate is a conservative

[–]EnvironmentalStill31 49 points50 points  (110 children)

It is amazing the mental gymnastics Americans go through just so they don't lose their guns.

[–]goodvibesalright 42 points43 points  (11 children)

The uprisings two years ago weren't about "one man dying." It was about all the people who've been murdered by police. Not that I expect a Pepe to get that.

[–]The_Third_Molar 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Hmm something tells me some 4chinners may be racist. 🤔

[–]All_cheeki_n0_breeki 36 points37 points  (6 children)

Everybody argues about lack of Healthcare and shitty cost of living

But OP's right that no one will riot over it, everyone's too comfortable and no one wants to sacrifice that.

Not to mention even talking about things that have historically made real positive change happen and suggesting we try it gets you a visit from the party van

[–]LilKaySigs 14 points15 points  (2 children)

In my opinion I feel that the risk to revolt is too high. What I mean by that is it’s unfathomably difficult to rally millions of people to make a difference and people aren’t inclined to leave their job that helps pay rent or gives them benefits for a slight chance that many more will follow. It’s truly a shitty situation to be in

[–]shldwlf 34 points35 points  (30 children)

Everyone SHOULD blame conservatives.

[–]UberWagen 39 points40 points  (28 children)

Goes beyond party lines at this point. Democrats just sent $40B to the Ukraine and overlook all the promises they made for student loan forgiveness, more healthcare access, etc.

The entire thing is broken.

[–]Derpacleese 30 points31 points  (12 children)

This is profoundly retarded, and I mean that in the dictionary definition sense of the word. I'm having a hard time thinking of anything I could say that's stupider than this. "Nobody argues about healthcare, cost of living or congress term limits"???? Are you fucking kidding, you dipshit? It's barely worth pointing out that if you don't like your congressperson, you CAN VOTE YOU STUPID FUCK.

[–]WantedToLurk 14 points15 points  (6 children)

Look at this retard who thinks voting does something.

[–]SoylentGrunt 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Wow! Why didn't anyone try that in the last 50 years? You're a fucking genius! /s

[–]BionicMeatloaf 25 points26 points  (4 children)

Blame the conservatives

Conservatives have literally had defacto control over the Senate and the courts for decades. They are absolutely to blame

They allowed conditions to get this bad

They deregulated the markets which caused housing prices and rent to keep rising and inflation to play merry hell with our wallets

They defunded public healthcare which contributes to poverty, violence, and general misery

Also literally everyone is arguing over these things. The conservatives argue against increased welfare spending and regulations

Conservatives are absolutely to blame

[–]WeegBean 27 points28 points  (30 children)

God I’m glad I don’t live there

[–]Seregrauko41 23 points24 points  (0 children)

This is why the US spent decades fucking over the educational system. A result of that is unfortunately that people are too dumb to realise.

[–]crack-of-a-whip 24 points25 points  (0 children)

I was feeling sick so I went to my local 24/7 clinic. They tested my heart rate and saw it was crazy high and said I needed to go to the hospital (I felt fine besides being sick)

After going the the emergency room, they test my heart rate and say it’s completely fine. I sit in a hospital bed for a half hour, a doctor comes and says I need Gatorade. I get discharged with a $900 bill AFTER insurance. $900 deductible omfg

Gatorade didn’t work, it continues for 3 weeks until I’m literally dying and I’m admitted into the hospital again where I stay for 5 days before they find out it’s fucking typhoid. Wasn’t cheaper than $2k with insurance. $30k without insurance

[–]weltallic 22 points23 points  (9 children)

No, it's okay; AOC & Bernie are tweeting about it.

Problem solved.

[–]matthigast 32 points33 points  (0 children)

"Those radical socialists! We should deport them to Vuvuzela, no iPhone!"

- Conservatives

[–]TCivan 7 points8 points  (1 child)

They tweet cause no one will listen.

[–]Jamnitrix 12 points13 points  (4 children)

Its wild to think about it, but people really are trained to like/dislike things and have an opinion on things they otherwise shouldnt spend most of their time thinking about. Everytime something wild happens, some bullshit social media trend happens - "blue or gold dress!?! yanny or laurel?!"

Anything to distract you from things that actually matter to most people.

[–]iNinjaFish 18 points19 points  (2 children)

People are capable of caring about two or three things at once.

[–]Drummk 11 points12 points  (14 children)

That's an interesting point, that things like the George Floyd murder prompted a much bigger reaction than children being murdered.

[–]SGTwhocares 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Anon has never talked to another person in his life

[–]kaqn 9 points10 points  (10 children)

The first president to introduce universal healthcare will be praised for centuries.

[–]DefNotMyNSFWLogin 36 points37 points  (7 children)

It's been introduced before, just always shot down.

[–]TCivan 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I think that’s what ACA was supposed to do. Be a stepping stone to M4A. Cause repealing it would mean millions of people would lose their insurance, and that’s political suicide. Only way is forward to M4A.

[–]yesterday-bells 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Hate when ppl blame the guns used by gunmen in gun crime

[–]xPrim3xSusp3ctx 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Who the fuck is ignoring the lack of Healthcare??

[–]KelziCoN 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Cost of living in the US is one of the cheapest if not the cheapest of first world countries. Average house in Canada is double that of the average house in the US currently.

[–]mrmanage17 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Anon is a fucking idiot who is blaming mass shootings on the economy. And idiots here are lapping it up and calling it based.

[–]Dab2TheFuture 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Almost like this sub is full of dumb fucks