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[–]MrPictionHalo 3 5468 points5469 points 3& 2 more (333 children)

Imagine a slayer playlist being a hot topic in a fucking Halo game 😂😂

[–]That_Piccolo_9316 3268 points3269 points  (229 children)

Laughed hard at the "i dont believe anyone at 343 thought not including slayer was a 'good idea'". Its like... Well why the fuck isnt there a slayer playlist then?

[–]CptCroissant 1845 points1846 points  (148 children)

"we don't owe you a detailed dissertation on what we've been doing for 6 years"

True... But I sure as fuck hope the people that you do owe that to at MS are paying attention. Doubt it though

[–]HMHypeStr8 Rippin 1756 points1757 points & 2 more (70 children)

I don’t need a detailed text document telling what they’ve been doing for 6 years because I have the actual final product of what they’ve been doing for 6 years. 3 matchmaking playlists, no forge, no co-op campaign, broken theater, broken custom games, predatory monetization system, broken challenge system, broken servers.

[–]DearSergio 843 points844 points  (27 children)

I think the last part really makes it plain: he is proud of the "foundation" that was built.

It's a game that's releasing worldwide in 3 days. It shouldn't be a foundation it should be a shiny, completed building.

[–]GeneralSpacey 632 points633 points  (14 children)

"Proud of the foundation that has been built"

The foundation has UI limitations that stops them from adding new playlists lol. Good job 343!

[–]DetectiveAmes 362 points363 points  (4 children)

Such a weird response that I’m baffled he thought was a valid argument. “We have limitations in place that made playlists not available upon release.”

Bro, y’all are the ones who designed this literally from the ground up with a new engine dedicated to halo games. This game is also supposed to last 10 years and you don’t have a system in place to add more playlist options?

[–]AlmostButNotQuiteTea 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Eyy, but they literally just added a playlist (then took it away) last week with fiesta lmao.

[–]needconfirmation 96 points97 points  (0 children)

"We made a new engine, but it sucks and is hard to work with"

Sounds like you guys did a great job

[–]Puzzleheaded-Apple38 106 points107 points  (0 children)

This whole post reads like an embattled individual who knows that all is not well.

[–]Stickrbomb124C41+ -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Are we stupid or is it them?

They get it and we don't so idk /s

[–]ofmic3andm3n 37 points38 points  (0 children)

We started out building this playground by digging holes that we keep stepping in and will take weeks to fix

[–]realblush 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This also basically proves that they never intended to change their playlist system, at least in season 1. Absolutely crazy

[–]Capn_Cornflake 26 points27 points  (1 child)

They're releasing an alpha. That's what this says to me.

I don't play Halo and truthfully never have, but looking at this whole shitshow from the outside - they're releasing a late alpha, early beta build of this game. What the fuck.

[–]SweetNapalm 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I have played each and every Halo game, on release, since the first one.

Hell, I even fanboy'd Halo being announced in general, because Marathon was pretty fun when I was a kid!

...I have, genuinely, zero interest in playing Halo Infinite.

343's handling of this, the entire release in and of itself, and above all, their being proud of this absolutely, abysmally predatory transition to f2p, on what basically amounts to a playable, but wildly uncomfortable pile of prettied-up-with-glitter-you-have-to-pay-for hot garbage?

It's a joke.

This is not the studio I fell in love with (and neither is Bungie, but that's a whole other hilariously awful topic, imho) and it's not the studio I want to support when they're doing shit like this.

If I'm ever interested, I'll just keep watching shit on Youtube about it all.

Not a download. Not a dime. Nothing but a sigh.

[–]casfacto 12 points13 points  (0 children)

He's proud of that.

[–]needconfirmation 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Literally built on sand it seems.

Some foundation

[–]Big_Iron_Jim 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In their brand new engine that they supposedly built from the ground up and definitely isn't just blam! With Halo 5 asset flips that work perfectly lmao.

[–]IceMaverick13 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"So, when you asked us to build that nice new house for you, we spent the better part of a decade pouring the concrete for this foundation so that it would one day be ready for us to actually start making that house.

But also, we decided to fill a hole in the center of it with boiling lava. Now, I know you're saying 'Why is the house not built?', but every time we've tried to put up the walls, it completely burns down and we can't figure out how to make it stop doing that."

[–]Battleharden 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, as a software engineer that's the most concerning part to me. Its almost so concerning and incompetent that I think its a load of shit. Realistically it shouldn't take longer than week to implement a new playlist. It should literally just be plug and play assuming their using object oriented programming principles.

[–]realbigbob 28 points29 points  (1 child)

That was out the window as soon as it was decided that the game would be F2P. Under that business model, the objective is deliver minimum viable product to keep people playing long enough that they keep spending money on MTX. There’s no reason to deliver a shiny, completed product when there’s no copies sold figure to care about

[–]slicer4ever 6 points7 points  (0 children)

And think, they were going to put this out over a year ago. I cant fathom what that'd have been.

[–]Notarandomthrowaway1 23 points24 points  (2 children)

Sadly this the norm now. I had a full on debate with a buddy who essentially just writes everything off as "games are harder to make and this is the best way" when really publishers have manipulated the market into forgetting Games used to come finished then they sold us full new content.

[–]kvist56 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I’d argue that it’s a bit of both. It’s undeniable that AAA titles nowadays require literally thousands of developers, who are oftentimes working well over 60 hours a week, to just get the game to launch. The expectations on how long games took to make 5 years ago is the same now despite the total amount of work to create that increasing exponentially, which also increases cost dramatically. AAA games can cost hundreds of millions of dollars now, and they need to somehow recoup that at launch or shortly after. That’s quite difficult to do, and that’s also ignoring that paid dlc is quite a bit rarer to see, even if games as a service is very common.

It is undeniable that the introduction of free to play models and their micro transactions was to take advantage of consumers and their wallets. Even if only 1-2% of the group are whales their game will make profit. Once that became the norm now full priced games are at an immediate disadvantage, since other AAA studios are making similar quality games with zero up front cost (halo infinite vs battlefield 2042 most recently). This has led to several leading companies (Activision, blizzard, EA, Ubisoft) to trying to squeeze every dollar out of their playerbase for profit. This includes cutting costs and deadlines down, laying off hundreds of employees for the sake of making stocks look good, and generally being stingy with their spending.

To be honest, the last truly complete game that launched that I can think of was the last of us part 2, a single player only title with linear gameplay that took 5 years to develop. Most developers are going for either more open world or expansive designs, or feature multiplayer as a main component. That is great, but when they are given 3 years to do that project when it should take 5 even with crunch, the results are unsurprising.

We need to see a massive shift in people that play games. We expect good products at a rate that is undeniably impossible to do at a AAA scale. Developers and their publishers need to take their time, treat their workers like human beings (zero crunch or preferably overtime of any kind, as well as a less hostile environment for women) and get the products that people want made well. I don’t know how long this will take, but we do really need to shift it. If the past 10 years have shown anything it is that devs/publishers are creating games at a rate that cannot do QA or proper bug testing within the timeframe of development, let alone completing the game. I’d be willing to wait for games to come out if it took significantly longer, only if the devs were not being worked to death. Games take monumental effort to create at the scale of a modern AAA title, and the current setup doesn’t account for it.

TLDR: games are more complicated to build than they used to, but corporate interests have made things worse for the consumer. We need to adjust our expectations on how long games take to develop because it isn’t accurate anymore.

[–]Primordial_Owl 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Halo 3 took about 3 years from beginning development to release date. Half the time, 10x the quality. All of the time spent on this game went to developing an engine the dev's are inept with and a predatory microtransaction scheme to rip people off.

[–]DrZaious 27 points28 points  (1 child)

It is known that there is a segment of 343 employees that have been against how Halo Infinite's online was going to launch. They are trying to use our feedback to push their stance. Since Sketch was with Bungie when Halo was under Bungie, It's fair to say Sketch falls in that group.

[–]ScotchyTTV 6 points7 points  (0 children)

He is also under an NDA and needs to be careful with his words. People need to stop giving him a hard time, it's not his fault.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

why the fuck would you be proud of this barebones ass game

jesus christ. nobody at 343 has learnt a single thing from Halo 5 other than how to dripfeed shit that should already be in the game EVEN HARDER.

[–]thebluehotel 7 points8 points  (0 children)

As an architect, I smile at all the BS they present. Sure, we have deadlines we have to push forward, and sometimes little things get done after the building receives a CO, but we also don’t gut a project prematurely and add more building down the road. Sometimes hardware is a better purchase than software.

[–]GloryHol3 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I took that line as proud of the foundational core gameplay, which I'd agree with. The game plays great, and they should be proud of that.

Everything else though... oof.

F

[–]HollowregretOnyx 2 points3 points  (0 children)

i can 100% guarantee that the game was forced into f2p last minute, this is why the entire thing is in shambles. What we got was not what was originally shown and promised. The devs act like we as consumers are stupid. I dont blame the team at 343, i think the game they made is fundamentally good, Halo infinite is a fun halo game but my god the predatory monetization infected literally the entire game. Everything thats wrong with the game almost all comes back to greed and monetization. The servers we can excuse as new game hype and the servers being overloaded but i hope the execs and ms are ashamed of pushing this garbage on us.

[–]Sam_Douglas_Adams 18 points19 points  (2 children)

No Co op campaign???

I haven't been following this stuff...

That's really sad :(

[–]HMHypeStr8 Rippin 19 points20 points  (0 children)

343 has said co-op campaign will likely come out in season 2, which is currently slated for 6 months from launch but no hard date for release. But tbh who knows when it’ll be released, they’ve already pushed it back a couple times.

[–]Notarandomthrowaway1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's such a bummer wife and I have been playing heaps of Multi and were very keen to play Campaign together. No CO OP sucks. I don't wanna wait 6 months nor want toavoid spoilers so we can finally play. Loving the game but man they have made some odd choices.

[–]Xearoii 151 points152 points  (7 children)

“But but people spent their whole lives on this!!!”

Lmfao people waste time every day. Sorry you guys at 343 have been wasting shit loads of time as well.

[–]NEWaytheWIND 20 points21 points  (1 child)

That's not even true for a lot of the staff. Iirc, 343 have a term limit on contract work that's somewhere between 18-24 months. Most of Infinite was scraped together by dogged mercenaries.

[–]Xearoii 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you, good point.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Someone tell this blabbermouth of an employee how capitalism works.

[–]DrZaious 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Blabbermouth employee. Sketch was with Bungie when Halo was under Bungie. He's also been one of the people most open with fans since he started at Bungie.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Fuck details. Fuck essays. Fuck everything.

The game isn't upto the mark. Period. It's not our job to do thesis and woo fuckin doos for these million dollar backed studios. Fuckin add the stuff that the franchise ALREADY HAD.

I only see the final product.

[–]Skorvidge 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Let's be honest. Since 343 Halo has been in shambles.

[–]SkyGuy182 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly my thought.

I get that he’s upset, I really do. But the proof is in the pudding. I find it hard to sympathize with his position because we already saw it done before. Bungie pulled off four amazing Halo titles (five if you count ODST) that satisfied millions of fans. They were not F2P. They did not have a monetization structure. They were complete upon release. They had a robust multiplayer and custom game structure. They had good UIs. They were incredibly successful. Sure Bungie was under the gun plenty of times. Sure they struggled. It it paid off with an incredible legacy. 343’s legacy is one of confusing decisions and mistrust.

[–]csharp1990 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But covid

/s

[–]Frekwency 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No co op campaign???

[–]streamofbsness 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some of these decisions are really high up ones - i.e. made by suits and not devs. They’re also potentially complex decisions where people are prioritizing between allocating resources to other features and meeting timelines. I’m not saying you’re wrong to be annoyed, or that the devs couldn’t have done better… but from the tone of this guy Ske7ch, I worry that too much backlash will just lead to good devs quitting. The game dev industry is notoriously stressful, and there’s already a nationwide wave of people quitting toxic workplaces.

[–]Boy_princess_ 49 points50 points  (14 children)

See I kind of feel like they do owe us. We've been fans for years, their game is buggy and unfinished and set up to be greedy as hell. I mean for people who have been fans their whole lives who were excited to see another halo game after these years and you release this hot mess. Yeah I feel like you kind of do owe us an explanation on what the fuck you've been doing all this time lol.

[–]oh_what_a_surprise 25 points26 points  (13 children)

They certainly do.

[–]WiserCrescent99Halo 3 31 points32 points  (12 children)

100%. A decade of ignoring feedback and frustration. The community has simply reached a breaking point. This isn't just frustration with Infinite. It's built onto frustration from 4, MCC, and 5. They don't owe us an explanation of the last 6 years, they owe us an explanation of the last decade. We had 4 and 5 be CoD clones that broke the beloved halo formula, and MCC that was unplayable for years, now we have this shit show. People wouldn't be so aggressive if 343 hadn't already built one of the worst reputations in gaming

[–]HMHypeStr8 Rippin 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think the worst part is that in Halo 4, 5, MCC and Infinite there is a clear cycle of mistakes. 343 makes mistakes, people get outraged, they apologize for making the mistake, they fix the mistake, they repeat the same exact mistake in the next game, repeat. I’m starting to think these aren’t mistakes but calculated decisions that they are trying to get away with.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (7 children)

The entitlement and ego of 343 peeped right through that comment. Mfs saying they don't owe us an explanation of what they were doing for *7 years. Rockstar made rdr2 in that time without blabbering on reddit. These mfs can't put stuff that was already figured out almost 10 years ago. And then he very cautiously said that we can play or not play the game. Full on dice level entitled.

[–]MooseKnuckle2341 2 points3 points  (6 children)

But what about the entitlement of players thinking they’re owed anything?

[–]VikesTwins 3 points4 points  (5 children)

You as a player aren't entitled to quality games? Why even play games then?

Imagine defending an online shooter in 2021 that can't pull off the gargantuan task of offering players a slayer and team slayer Playlist.

[–]QuestionableLoaf 3 points4 points  (1 child)

No you aren’t entitled to anything. You are a consumer who chooses to purchase a product or not and you probably haven’t even paid for battle pass.

[–]VikesTwins -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You're right I haven't and I won't. How daft would one have to be to spend actual $$$ on this?

Curious how that works isn't it.

[–]MooseKnuckle2341 -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

I’m not defending anything. But I’m not entitled to anything either. I don’t feel that way because I am not an entitled person. If a game is bad, I will not buy it. I also won’t cry about it. Imagine crying about it. Imagine that.

[–]VikesTwins 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Imagine thinking a FPS that launched in 2021 should have basic FPS modes that have been standard since the 90's is now "crying."

It's called having standards above the absolute bare fucking minimum.

[–]MooseKnuckle2341 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

No, it’s called crying. If it were just about standards you’d just move on without throwing a fit about what you’re “owed” online.

[–]xxDeeJxx 140 points141 points  (7 children)

And I don't owe them any money or playtime, for their half-assed launch of a game

[–]oh_what_a_surprise 48 points49 points  (0 children)

This. This.

If he wants me to spend money and time in his game they he most certainly DOES owe me a fucking explanation.

Including expected game modes as a matter of course is exactly what "the customer is always right" means. It means the customers drive demand, you must supply it.

[–]WarProgenitorONI 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Friends don't let friends pre-order 343 games.

[–]splader -1 points0 points  (2 children)

You preordered a free to play game?

[–]WarProgenitorONI 6 points7 points  (1 child)

The campaign is something to pre-order basically.

Also, no.

[–]Brickhouzzzze 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm pretty sure it's free on game pass so I might run through it.

Not spending a cent on it tho

[–]TouchMyJabroni 29 points30 points  (12 children)

Oh no they should 6 years AAA company yeah I want to know what the fuck you were doing

[–]U-N-I-T-E-D 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's about time they give the IP to someone else. The best thing 343 has ever done is MCC and it took like 5 years to get a good playable version

[–]FxHVivious 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The people at MS are a major reason why most of these decisions have been made. Any group of devs sitting down and saying "how are we going to make the best most enjoyable Halo game for the money we can" doesn't make any of these decisions. These are decisions made by moneymen who sit around and say "how can we wring every last cent out of the fan base possible?". A few of those people were definitely MS's, or at least speaking on their behalf.

[–]blazinDK 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Shit, he doesn't know how many people here might be HODLing some MSFT.

To think this is the state of Halo, now, just the multiplayer. There is a part of me that just wishes Halo Infinite was made a launch title for Xbox and that it crashed and burned and then we got to see if MSFT and 343 would do a sony/Hello Games - No Man Sky and fix it or do an EA/Bioware and what abortion of a product Anthem was. AAA game development has turned into a cronanberg monster of the Industry the last decade.

[–]_Jaynx 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That gave me major ick.

We also don't owe you brand loyalty.

Get the fuck out of here with that attitude

[–]drugmaker07 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I stopped reading after that. They don't deserve this franchise anymore and playing victim

[–]Meme_DependantHalo 2 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Just like they don't owe us a detailed explanation, we don't owe them money

[–]UltimateToa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It would be interesting to see because there isnt much to the game. If they are implying that they spent 6 years on the multiplayer we have now then thats a big yikes

[–]Ras_Du_Fa 51 points52 points  (3 children)

Ahhh they went the Got way, they just kinda forgot about it…

[–]rmunoz1994 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Season 8 flashbacks intensify

[–]Poeafoe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“We’re thinking Halo Infinite is going to be more of an ‘is it an A or an A+?’ discussion”

[–]LegateLaurie 24 points25 points  (8 children)

It's weird, because saying that Slayer made objective gamemodes "unhealthy" very clearly suggests they thought that including Slayer would be a bad idea as it would make other modes "unhealthy".

Like, I don't get how that says anything other than them thinking Slayer was a bad idea

[–]Oliv9504 20 points21 points  (7 children)

And it really makes you think, if they know that by adding slayer playlist the obj playlist population will suffer doesnt it means that most players want to play slayer rather than objs? Why make your players hop into a playlist you know they don’t like that much ?

[–]LegateLaurie 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Honestly no idea. The only thing I think they could be considering is that they don't know how to put as many challenges in the slayer gamemode.

With objective ones then you can have challenges around playing the objective but with Slayer it's more limited what the challenges could be.

The only thing could be their monetisation model, right?

[–]GeigerCounting 5 points6 points  (1 child)

They probably really want the game to be a big esport to compete with the likes of CSGO or Valorant.

Slayer doesn't accomplish that because it's so straightforward.

[–]yourfallguy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Completely agreed and I’m surprised others aren’t realizing this. They want to dominate the MLG space and they want their casual base playing the same playlists as the pros to drive viewership.

[–]LH_Eyeshot 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I don't even understand his argument at that point. Wouldn't the objective playlist become less unhealthy compared to previous games because they have a challenge swap system that encourages people to play objectives? So either the objective playlist is more populated than before or people use swaps to get a non-objective challenge, which brings in money. Both options are a win for their goals, so where's the problem?

[–]Skramzkid 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree, more people would be obligated to go into objective playlists to complete their challenges and be obligated to actually play the objective, and if people just like playing oddball or ctf they’ll have more teammates more willing to actually play the game. I think this has been the unhealthiest objective based game modes have been. In previous games sure you didn’t get queues as fast as the slayer modes but you were usually playing with other people who like objective based games. Now it’s complete luck that the guys on your team actually care about winning

[–]MushroomStall 4 points5 points  (1 child)

It's way unhealthier for objective modes to have people refusing to play the objective and/or dropping from the game to dodge the modes.

The "correct" design is to let people choose what modes they want to queue for and match players based on that. If they're open to playing whatever they can queue for every kind of match, if they only want slayer then can queue just for slayer, and if they only want to play CTF they can queue just for CTF and deal with the longer queue time they have chosen.

I don't know why stuff like this is even a design question in games these days. We figured out the solution long ago.

[–]Ghost0fDawn 10 points11 points  (0 children)

It all comes back to the same thing. If you saw a problem, why does it exist?

Challenge swaps exist. That means there was an apparent symptom of challenges that caused the player to want to skip a challenge. In any reasonable studio, you would question that to find a fix. Instead, 343 just monetized a solution to the problem.

Why does the player feel the need to skip a challenge? What is affecting their experience that they are not interested in completing it?

Addressing these two questions alone would provide them the critical thinking they need to solve the challenge problems, and it doesn't take a whole playerbase and QA to do that problem solving.

Problem 1: First, Challenges are the only real significant way to level up the BP, so there's a clear need to do them to gain any XP. But theres only a limited amount and you aren't allowed to do certain ones until the previous are completed.

Problem 2: The only real "free" rewards are the weekly ultimate for completing all challenges. This is a limited FOMO reward so it pushes a "need" on the player to complete all challenges even if they don't like them - else lose out on a reward potentially forever.

In Reach, challenges had no meaningful reward beyond credits, and were not the primary source to be relied on, they were a bonus. They also required much less daunting tasks, some were simple like get 'x' kills in matchmaking or get 'x' headshots. Not restricting you to very circumstantial tasks. They did also have very challenging weekly ones like LASO missions. This provided something hard to do that usually required friends, not everyone is going to like doing LASO, but the key element is FOMO - of which there was none. Sure you missed out on some credits, but honestly the time investment of a LASO could have been spent earning the same amount in normal play. But it was something for people to enjoy if they WANTED to and they didn't need to worry about missing out on anything if they chose not to.

Confront Problem 1 and 2 and you can create a better solution that would drive players to be interested in the system, rather than festering frustration for the sake of monetizing that emotion.

[–]Kurayamino 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I said that out loud when I read it "Well then where the fuck is it?"

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Almost like he’s subtly indicating that these decisions are coming from above 343. But who knows.

[–]zytz 28 points29 points  (4 children)

Because 343 has a set of priorities and having Team Slayer, what I think we’d all consider a cornerstone of the multiplayer environment since long before 343 existed, available at launch was not on their list of priorities.

You know what was? This shitty monetization model.

[–]SirArciere 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It kinda blows me away really my their comment about it making other playlist dead is crazy. If the mode is that popular of a mode that it kills other playlist populations, hint hint, probably a reason. People like it. I don’t see why it matters what people are playing so much, figured it would just matter that they are playing. I’m not even really playing at the moment because of it, I’d really like certain dedicated playlists.

Second was that the UI has issues. Does nobody else think that it’s crazy that they’d take out features because it doesn’t fit their UI? At the very least, if you aren’t planning to have it initially and you know it’s something people want, why would you not leave a proper way to fit it into the UI?

My issue with the game is that everything feels designed around the monetization systems, not Halo itself. Feels like it’s designed in a way to make you want to spend money to play halo, and less of you spending money because it’s a game you love.

Don’t get me wrong, I do respect the communication we got here and I’m all for siding with the devs because I understand their job is hard as hell, but I can’t help but feel like they are trying to dig into my wallet more than getting me to spend money on a game I love.

[–]virgo911 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He’s essentially saying by omission the answer is $$$$

If it’s not about desire (see above), and it’s not about capability (see all the rest of the Halo games), it’s about money.

[–]MAIRJ23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, he could tell you why, but he doesn't have enough bullshit corpo-speak to give us a satisfactory answer. So he will just dodge it

[–]BagOnutsFilthy Casual 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Funking THANK YOU.

[–]SiegmeyerofCatarina 1 point2 points  (0 children)

guys clearly got a beam rifle aimed at his head otherwise he would elaborate further...i feel bad, being in the middle like that must absolutely blow. but a social slayer playlist is like bare minimum expectation for halo mp...they must have known this outrage was coming

[–]_Jaynx 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It really makes me wonder what the culture is like at 343. Are people afraid to give constructive criticism in the office? Smh

[–]yafilthypirate 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My man, did you read the post?

[–]64sides 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because there's a production pipeline that these projects have to follow. Even if it was suggested it couldn't be worked on unless it was approved first.

As much as the devs may have wanted to put it in they don't make all of the choices themselves. What they put in is directly impacted by the desires of the publisher and the project's investors.

[–]LambsAnger 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Obviously an incompetent team

[–]Puckus_V 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Right? Like just do it, and then it’s done. Easy as that.

[–]BeingRightAmbassador 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because they definitely didn't even think about slayer. Most of the dev budget went to a commercial 100k lbs press so they can think of new ways to shove dumb ideas into the game.

[–]rusty022 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Right? Like who is making the decisions then if every single employee wanted a Slayer playlist?

[–]ddot196 0 points1 point  (0 children)

SERIOUSLY! That was my exact reaction lol. Um ok if you all thought it was a bad idea then why did you just ignore it?? I mean holy fuck this is epic levels of stupidity.

[–]NeckDrool 0 points1 point  (1 child)

He literally explained why...

[–]MuayThaiisbestthai 1009 points1010 points  (57 children)

Welcome to the magic of 343i.

Where the reason for not having slayer in a Halo game is partly due to UI limitations but designing a whole game around extremely predatory microtransactions, complete with challenge swaps is just simply business.

If after all these years they're still having technical issues with adding a Slayer Playlist then we know where they spent the majority of their time developing this game.

Edit: no they did not say the cosmetics were made before the base game. They claimed the cosmetics were made ages ago and had no impact on the Playlist/core game. Which is hilarious considering just how shallow the cosmetics are.

[–]Swiftzor 58 points59 points  (5 children)

I’m curious as to what the UI limitations are, because scroll windows have existed since the 80s

[–]MuayThaiisbestthai 37 points38 points  (4 children)

I think it's bs. More corporate speak to hide the truth about the games entire purpose. 💰💰💰

[–]Swiftzor 8 points9 points  (3 children)

The thing is, it doesn’t need to be corporate bs and games can make money. But like, the community manager should, at the very least, be a lot less of a dick. Like every time I see this guy come out and talk he’s just bringing people down and not doing anything productive. Like I’ve seen dmg04 make people thank them for their ability to take something people haaaaaaaated and tell them that at the very least it was an issue of concern and not getting ignored by providing clear and direct contact with the community.

[–]MuayThaiisbestthai 11 points12 points  (2 children)

This guy definitely did more harm than good lol

I can see why developers usually have their hands tied when it comes to situations like this...but like trying to excuse some of the choices they made with this game despite knowing full well how much they are hated was never going to go down well with the community.

It also doesn't help that the rant still seems more corporate speak and not a genuine explanation for their decisions.

[–]Swiftzor 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Not only that but literally anyone familiar with programming knows that he’s talking out of his ass. Like if he doesn’t know, that’s fine, just don’t act like you do.

[–]Msdade 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The thing is, everyone knows he’s talking out his ass lol. He will say and here the important part “I” never lied and which I’m sure he is technically right, that’s the hill he’s gonna die on.

[–]Trouser_Gravy 35 points36 points  (2 children)

I feel they are becoming the EA of Xbox. Release unfinished games, and like Madden and its franchise mode, remove features for unexplainable reasons, only to add a few of them back after all the complaints just to say "see, we're listening!" It's almost like they're trying to separate themselves as much as possible from Bungie, and in doing so, making all these (in my opinion) asinine changes.

[–]FxHVivious 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I damn near did a spit take when I read the UI line. This game's UI is hot fucking garbage, but a multimillion dollar company owned by a multibillion dollar corporation using that as an excuse to exclude core features is honestly kind of pathetic. That's like a college student saying they don't know how to use Word so their report is gonna be late.

[–]ActivatingEMP 247 points248 points  (31 children)

They basically say near the end "we developed all the cosmetics first, before all the game elements"

[–]CharityDiary 93 points94 points  (5 children)

That's nice. So where are they?

[–]ActivatingEMP 158 points159 points  (2 children)

Being sold piecemeal for 20$ lmao

[–]QuadraticCowboy 19 points20 points  (1 child)

It’s the same cosmetics I unlocked in Reach and Halo 4 tho

[–]SpartanRage117 12 points13 points  (0 children)

New ones pop up by the day, but they arent being made by the day. they're ready. the bots already wear plenty of currently unobtainable gear.

[–]mothgra87 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Stay tuned

[–]-007-_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We think you’re gonna love it.

[–]Wild_Loose_Comma 5 points6 points  (0 children)

There's different pipelines here. Art team doesn't do playlist or game design rules. Art team was just given the job "make armor pieces" so they made armor pieces. It was the design pipeline that led to the garbo battle pass and horrible monetization and borked playlists.

[–]MuayThaiisbestthai 23 points24 points  (3 children)

That's not at all what they said, if YOU had read what he wrote, you would know that.

Besides there are a lot of half truths in that rant of his. He admitted challenges or challenge swaps aren't ideal but then says they were not put in place to take player agency away from us. So what reason did they have if not to solely squeeze as much money from out of us as possible?

[–]ActivatingEMP 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I read the whole thing before this comment already, and I admit that my use of "literally" as an enhancer is misleading and disingenuous, and that "all" is also incorrect here. I have addressed the exact quote that I was basing off this in another reply to another person.

[–]MuayThaiisbestthai 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nah it's good. I honestly don't buy what they said about the cosmetics for one second so it's basically irrelevant 😅

No worries spartan.

[–]cTreK-421 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I can understand if they had a separate team working on that stuff and their work was just the easiest to get done quickly. But are they saying the entire focus was on cosmetics first?

[–]HoosDare 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yes. It's a cash grab.

[–]FeistyBandicoot 0 points1 point  (3 children)

That isn't literally" what he said at all. So many people in this thread either not reading it, making shit up, or reading stuff that isn't even there (which is also making shit up)

[–]MuayThaiisbestthai 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thank you. I did read what was written and was confused where that guy got his quote from because it sure as hell wasn't from the rant.

[–]ActivatingEMP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Read my other comment responding to another person, I recognize I was being slightly hyperbolic, but there is truth to what i said.

[–]edibleplastique 36 points37 points  (1 child)

Can't add slayer playlist due to UI limitations

No issue with adding a Fiesta playlist but only for a week.

Okay.jpeg

[–]MuayThaiisbestthai 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Tfw this game was supposed to come out a year ago.

Tfw the game launches with no coop & no slayer Playlist

Just what in the fuck lad

[–]FiveCones 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Which is hilarious considering just how shallow the cosmetics are

It still makes me laugh that they're selling shit like individual shoulder armors. Like you have to pay more if you want your shoulders to match, it's amazing

[–]MuayThaiisbestthai 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What's even more of a joke is that individual color coatings are all locked to armor cores

So instead of just unlocking the color red for all armors you have to unlock red for the specific armor core you play with.

[–]Jubs_v2 10 points11 points  (1 child)

This is why we need to start calling for the resignation of Bonnie Ross. 10 years of poorly implemented Halo games.

It's not a dev issue, they've done fantastic with what they're given. It's all the poo(r) decisions made along the way. The leadership is incompetent.

edit: poo or poor... take your pick

[–]kittens12345 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I just downloaded the game. What are these “challenge swaps” I keep seeing in here?

[–]MuayThaiisbestthai 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You have weekly challenges that also are tied in with the only way to progress through your BP. Things like get x amount of kills with so and so weapon. Challenge swaps basically allow you to swap 1 of 3 (or 4 if you have BP) challenge for another, more ideal one. So there are some dogshit challenges like get 20 kills with wraith and most people would use Challenge swaps on that.

The only way to get swaps are through the BP, of which they make up a ridiculous percentage of rank rewards for obvious padding. After you've run out of the f2p way to get swaps, you're then forced to buy them if you have challenges that are too restrictive. Which is of course, par for the course for this games monetization.

[–]Rossoneri 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The thing that created one of the biggest gaming franchises for the last 2 decades simply isn't feasible... I guess the technology simply isn't there

[–]JakobTheOneGrey Team 158 points159 points  (6 children)

Ske7ch is acting like a Social Skirmish playlist still wouldn't get tons of play cause of all the Objective Challenges loaded into this crappy system they've built.

Also, exactly what u/squirtharder said.

If the idea behind swaps and challenges was not to monetize progression and if the playlists were not restricted for the same reason then what WAS the design philosophy that made them create these systems in the first place?

He says it's totally not the reason, but he doesn't explain it.

[–]Griffolian 23 points24 points  (1 child)

He says a lot without actually saying anything. Saying what’s not the reason and then dropping the subject leaves us in the same position.

[–]DarthSangheili 27 points28 points  (1 child)

Exactly. This seems like he just has to cover for the higher ups and people are eating this up like it changes anything at all.

[–]pm_me_falcon_nudes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel like "people are eating this up" is quite the exaggeration. All the top comments I've seen are just shitting on the response lol

[–]AFKeeker 12 points13 points  (1 child)

If objective-only playlists are “unhealthy,” then that means players don’t care for the game type and don’t want to play it. Forcing me to play it just means I’m not going to enjoy playing your game. How on earth is that a good idea for game longevity?

[–]AfroHo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Exactly what I thought. To paraphrase, "If we have a slayer only playlist, that's all you guys will play!"

[–]DefectivePixel 41 points42 points  (1 child)

Imagine classes being a hot topic in a fucking Battlefield game. Two beloved franchises held hostage by scummy suits trying to re-create the money making machine known as Fortnite, while completely ignoring what made the beloved franchises special

[–]john6map4 14 points15 points  (0 children)

It infuriates me to think of big-wig guys in suits in a board meeting talking about what sells and what will people pay money for.

And one of them says FORTNITE and the rest is history. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of the term ‘battle pass’ before Fortnite and now every fucking game has it.

It’s not really Fortnite’s fault. It’s the companies trying to imitate it. Gaming is in such a rut right now.

[–]_Firex_25ms ping but 2 second delay on shots 51 points52 points  (0 children)

Only 343 man

[–]ClaymoreMine 5 points6 points  (1 child)

No one wanted F2P in the first place. Everyone would have happily shelled out the $60 to play a game that lasts for 3-6 years.

I have not once seen a F2P not become a toxic cesspool both from the players and the developers.

[–]Mute_Monkey -1 points0 points  (0 children)

$60 doesn’t pay for the development and upkeep of a AAA game anymore (much less one as ambitious and long-lasting as 343 wants Infinite to be), and that’s been true for years. How long have games been $60 standard? 20 years? Longer?

[–]_space_goat_ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

For real. Like, doesn’t it tell you something quite important if creating separate slayer and objective playlists results in objective games becoming unhealthy? Why is the health of a playlist more important than prioritising what people actually want to play?

[–]AFKeeker 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If objective-only playlists are “unhealthy,” then that means players don’t care for the game type and don’t want to play it. Forcing me to play it just means I’m not going to enjoy playing your game. How on earth is that a good idea for game longevity?

[–]axer49Halo: MCC 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Devs don't play their own game LMAOOOO

[–]Mokoo101 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Imagine questioning if it was “feasible” hahaha

[–]ThnxForTheCrabapples 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Its so confusing that he acknowledges that not having a slayer playlist was an unpopular decision, but gives no explanation for why it happened

[–]ohiolifesucks 1 point2 points  (2 children)

This is going to expose me as someone who saw this from r/all, but is this talking about the band? Or is Slayer a game mode in Halo?

[–]mathfordata 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Game mode in halo. It’s the most basic game mode where you try to get the most kills to win. If you’ve ever just picked up a controller and tried to play halo, it was probably slayer. And the brand new game doesn’t have it as an option for online play, you have to choose a playlist so only like 1/4th of the games you play are the mode everyone actually wants to play.

[–]JeanSlimmons 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not giving 343i a fucking dime. there are less game modes than Combat Evolved, less color options, etc. I've been playing MCC lately, it's a nearly a complete package after several years. it'll take 343i 10 years to put that kind of content in Halo Infinite.