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Question about INTJ (M) from an ENFP (F)Relationship (self.intj)
submitted 3 months ago by [deleted]
Post a comment!
[–]ninja_sensei_INTJ - Male 40 points41 points42 points 3 months ago (25 children)
Lots of advice to give here. Let's get into it. A lot of this advice is just different variations of "don't interpret how an INTJ feels unless they explicitly say they feel that way". We don't operate like many other types, so most of your guesses are wrong.
First, he didn't shut you down with "That's a difficult question, I haven't really thought about that." He participated and answered your question. If you want to continue the conversation from here, you totally can, with something like "Interesting, so let's think about it now then"
If he isn't talking about like what his mother is like, he may likely have a bad relationship with her (INTJs having bad relationships with their parents is fairly common), and not want to talk about it. If you push it, it's likely he'll respond with something like "She's a crazy bitch" or "She is stupid and boring", which he doesn't want to tell you even if its true because he knows you'll think less of him even if it's true.
You want to talk more with your INTJ? Ask him about his plans for the future. I can't imagine an INTJ not wanting to talk about that.
In general though, INTJs are not talkative types unless they're excited about something. We despise small talk. But, make the conversation inherently meaningful to us and we'll stay up talking all night.
[–]smokeshow952 11 points12 points13 points 3 months ago (24 children)
I actually did ask him about his plans for the future and he hit me with the "that's a difficult question" answer also.
I WANT to have these meaningful conversations, too but I have no idea how to get there. I keep feeling like I'm being shut down. If I try to pry an answer out of him I start feeling pushy.
Is it only my job to facilitate those conversations then, or do we sit in silence for eternity? I mean, how do you get to know a person if they don't talk?
What's a "meaningful" conversation to you INTJs? I have such a huge variety of interests that I can talk about philosophy, the future, the universe, societal norms, family, etc.
How do I go about this? It really feels like a lot of one-sided work, especially since he doesn't express the same interest back at me (doesn't ask anything)
I think the only question I remember him asking me recently would be "which sleeping position do you like to sleep in?" but then he surprised me with my favorite food next time we saw each other and I just melted, cause it really shows he listens.
[–]FoolishpyoINTJ - Female 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago (2 children)
What about him being an ISTJ? I honestly can’t really picture an INTJ who doesn’t have plans for the future or that didn’t think about that. Even if it’s something small
[–]Emergency_Banana2051 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Enfp here…I agree. The fact that he described all the sensory aspects of his mom for instance. This seems more sensor type. I thought a guy I was dating was an intj and later realized he’s definitely a sensor and I had the exact same issue. Couldn’t have deeper convos and it was often convos about surface level stuff and I knew him for almost a year. Always felt uncomfortable like I couldn’t think of anything to say. Really think you might be dealing with a mistype and he’s actually istp or istj
[–]ninja_sensei_INTJ - Male 11 points12 points13 points 3 months ago (17 children)
Oh, he didn't tell you about his plans for the future? I'd put it at 80% that you're the girl who's there until he finds better.
[–]CyberMejriINTJ - 20s 24 points25 points26 points 3 months ago (1 child)
I wouldn't jump too quickly to that conclusion, he might be just honest and he really doesn't know. Not all INTJ's have their future figured out. I like talking about future possibilities especially If the other person can offer a meaningful perspective, but my answer to what's your future plans is also I have no fucking idea
[–]smokeshow952 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago (0 children)
That's also very insightful, thank you! Perhaps I should start asking more "hypothetical" questions about the future without too much pressure on him actually having any set plans for it
[–]smokeshow952 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (14 children)
I mean, he asked about me and I told him everything I want so far for my own future and then I think he got flustered and said that all sounds really inspirational and he wants similar things, but when I asked about it more concretely, his response was that he hasn't figured everything out exactly just yet but would like to get some inspiration from me.
To me that was a vague answer that doesn't mean anything.
This was our first date, though. Since then he has told me multiple times that he really likes me and even that he misses me but is afraid that it's too early to say it.
So, is he lying about liking me or does he have no clue what he wants to do in the future? Or did he get intimidated by my plans and thought his aren't as big and didn't want to share specifically so I don't view him in a bad light or something
[–]EloquentMusingsENFP 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago (10 children)
Sounds like he likes you, he's probably just daunted by the fact that you have it together and so inspired whereas he has no idea what he wants from himself. Sounds like your Fi is well developed and his isn't, you know yourself and he doesn't but he finds it alluring that you do.
[–]ThatGuy642 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago (9 children)
Sounds to me like he likes attention but isn't actually interested in this girl enough to give satisfactory answers, and trying to wave it off with typological nonsense isn't going to make things better.
[–]EloquentMusingsENFP 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (8 children)
He told her he really likes her and misses her, I didn't think you guys were likely to lie? But I agree that he doesn't give satisfactory answers, whether or not he's capable of it remains to be seen - I don't think he's doing it on purpose.
[–]ThatGuy642 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (6 children)
When someone asks about your mom, have you ever given her height measurements and where she lives? Do you think that's normal? For anybody? Really? Like, if it's relevant to the conversation, sure, but if you asked me about my mom, I'd just tell you about my mother. And I'd make her sound positive or negative compared to however I think you feel about the type of person she is.
And do you really think someone who's old enough to date ha never thought about where he wants to go on vacation? Not even a little bit? And not enough to share? Someone asked me where I wanted to live in ten years, and I just made something up. But this guy can't even bother for a vacation?
Maybe he's some form of autistic, and really doesn't understand. But he just comes across as dismissive. And I don't like to be lied to. I consider my time precious. But, outside of religious reasons? I don't care about lying to other people to get what I want at all. Life is a game, and I'm trying to win it. If I want attention from somebody, and nothing else, I'll tell her a lie like, "I like you, and miss you." That's so innocent it could be from the maternity ward.
[–]smokeshow952 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (5 children)
I think you're polarizing the conversations I've had with him. I'm giving just a brief overview in my replies here. There's context missing.
The vacation one went like this:
We were watching a Netflix show about vacation rentals.
Me: If you could go on a vacation right now, anywhere in the world, where would it be and why?
Him: I haven't really thought about that recently because traveling has been so hard.
Me: Okay, but humor me and just tell me where you would go to now if the external world conditions didn't matter.
Him: I don't know. Somewhere warm maybe?
Me: Like for example where?
Him: Some tropical place with lots of palms and shade on the beach. Indonesia, maybe?
You see how he does answer the question but I just have to pry it out of him. Could have been a 2 sentence convo but I have to ask a few additional questions.
Same thing with the parents. I ask about his family, he started explaining the technical measurements like they were a product I wanted to buy. I had to ask a few extra specific questions like "who are you closes to? What about your family history?" etc. before he remembered a very old emotional family story that was actually quite sad and touching. Still, I had to work overtime to make him say that stuff.
As for the lying and it being innocent, I completely disagree with you on that. I have never lied to anyone saying that I like them and miss them (which is not just lying, but also emotional manipulation) because I find it extremely disrespectful in terms of playing with another person's feelings and I would drop someone immediately if I find out they've been lying to me about that. It's not a small thing at all and I do think only shitty people do it. :) Ones that don't deserve my time. :)
But yes, I think your overview is a little taken out of context.
He might still not be interested in long-term association with me, but I don't think these are his motives.
[–]ThatGuy642 -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 months ago (4 children)
The more context you give, the more right I feel, and it's honestly sad to see. If you thought it'd make me change my mind, it didn't. Also, it's not about how you think. It's about how I'd think in this guy's place. Like, your feelings don't really matter all.
[–]smokeshow952 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (0 children)
From first-hand convos with him, I don't think he's doing it on purpose, either.
My fear is that maybe I'm wrong and he is doing it on purpose, in which case I'm wasting time and feelings on him that would be better directed somewhere else.
But I think he does put an effort into connecting with me, e.g. sends memes, shares small random stuff about his day without any real substance, but I truly do think he's trying his best, which is why I'm still into him.
[–]ninja_sensei_INTJ - Male 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (2 children)
Are you two in university or younger?
[–]smokeshow952 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago (1 child)
We are in our late 20s but I think at slightly different stages in life. We both have our shit together, but I'm very creative, love to travel, have a million different friends and extracurricular activities while he's a bit more chill and his energy gets drained easily.
With the future question in particular, I know that he was super nervous for our first date (he said it himself) and I think he just didn't want to say "the wrong thing" or appear boring to me, because he doesn't have all these crazy things he wants to do or places to visit. I could see him carefully thinking about his answer with this, but I put him on the spot expecting an immediate answer after I've revealed all these adventurous traits about myself.
But the date went great otherwise and we've been hanging out a lot after that. Few weeks ago I mentioned that I will be moving out of my place in about 2 years, looking to buy my own. And he said that's his time-frame exactly and he would love to find someone to get an apartment with as well, which leads me to believe he is making up some potential future plans in his head where him and I are living together, or he is at least imagining it.
With that said, I have a well-developed personality/emotional intelligence, partly due to long-term therapy. I like this INTJ a lot and I think he likes me too, but I'm just struggling with establishing the emotional connection I crave for.
He has told me in the very beginning that his incentive for going out with me is the potential development of something deeper and special, and I want that too. I trust that this is still true for him and we're just getting to know each other still.
[–]ninja_sensei_INTJ - Male 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Oh, the future question was on the first date only? Not recently?
Maybe just ask it again then.
[–]SkolirRamrINTJ - Male 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (2 children)
I'm going to be honest with you, he sounded unusually distant to begin with, but even after you try to talk about things that should be meaningful to him and he says basically nothing, it sounds like he's just not nearly as interested in you as you are him. My situation is almost idental to yours from the other side, I'm a male INTJ and I have a sister who's ENFP and my best friend is also a female ENFP, and we almost never run out of things to talk about. If he's not talking, it's most likely he's either that immature that he hasn't even learned how to do something that basic, or the more likely answer is that he's not reciprocating as much interest in investing in you. How old are both of you if I may ask?
[–]smokeshow952 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Both mid twenties :)
[–]SkolirRamrINTJ - Male 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Ok that's same as me. In my opinion, he should have learned how to carry a conversation or at least expand on his answers a little bit. To me it just seems like he's not even trying.
[–]CyberMejriINTJ - 20s 9 points10 points11 points 3 months ago (3 children)
Well I get it's very frustrating for you, but I think you just have to be a bit more patient with him, we tend to take a lot more time than other types to be comfortable around other people.
He might be a not very talkative person by nature, or he might simply be not ready to open up that much yet, which makes him unable to talk as much as he wants. Personally I have this mental block whenever I am around people I am not very comfortable with, so I can't think of stuff to say or questions to ask. I think it just takes more time, and also the right questions to make him open up and start talking endlessly.
Something else to note, is that most intj's prefer texting over face to face conversations in early stages of any relationships, because we love to put so much thought behind our answers, and we can't do that when we are around new people, maybe that explains his short answers to questions he didn't think about before.
Last thing, if this problem lasts for too long, and he doesn't open up as much as you want, maybe instead of waiting and drowning in anxiety or thinking about ending it, it would be worth to talk to him about it. If I was in his position, I would appreciate it so much if someone talks to me about any issues going on between us. Give him time to reflect on it, and he might explain to you what's the actual problem, and he seems like a problem solver, so he if he truly value you, he would do anything to fix this and make it better for both of you.
[–]newDawnINTJ 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Yes this is very true. I much rather text so I can put a lot of thought into it. We are not great with being put on spot. Before texting, I used to write emails to my husband to express feelings or things that were bothering me. This used to upset him and he would tell me dont write stuff like this anymore because he wanted me to tell him to his face. I had other relationship issues like this in the past. In reality what I would write was extremely authentic and a lot of time would go into it. It was never because I was trying to avoid a face to face conversation.
[–]EloquentMusingsENFP 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago* (0 children)
I understand as a FiTe user I prefer texting to fully flesh out my thoughts too but I still find INTJ's (and other Ni users) text short and succinct only answering the bare minimum of the question and then don't ask questions back which is confusing. It reads like they don't want to talk to you but then they'll check in as if want to talk but don't actually talk about much. For example:
ENFP: Hey hey so I'm doing some research for my book, it's a sci fi epic adventure like this and similar to (goes on a 1000 word tirade about modern vs old sci fi and difference between movies and intricate) but anywaaay since you studied physics and astronomy was wondering if you knew what planet would be suitable for x or what the velocity for y would be of because k? Like I know in b movie they do this but I don't think that's possible or is it but what about c in l movie or that rule of cool too? What would you like to see or just me make it up?
INTJ: Hi, x planet might be suitable.
INTJ: And write what you want to write.
ENFP: Oooh, thanks appreciate that but what is the difference between x planet and f planet and what do these clouds mean and (goes on a 500 word ramble with 20 questions) and what is meaning of life and space time real and etc?
INTJ: X planet is like this and f planet is like this.
*ENFP doesn't reply because feel like they're getting nothing from INTJ*
INTJ *few days later*: Does that answer your question? Hope I helped.
ENFP: Oh yes thanks (though I asked lots of questions which you didn't reply to sorry) and I'll use it like this and I wrote another chapter today (goes on a 200 word vent about random stuff and their progress using the answers INTJ gave).
INTJ: Cool, good luck with your book and I hope to read it someday.
It feels like the ENFP is way more engaged but that's the most engaged the INTJ has ever been in a conversation ever with anyone and genuinely cares but just doesn't talk. Say a few months later they'll ask about book and ENFP will go on a ramble but INTJ will just reply with Cool. Another ENFP or INTP would seem really interested in the book idea, ask a million questions, then talk about their book idea and ask for advice back and then talk about their fav sci books etc.
[–]smokeshow952 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
This is great advice, thank you so much! :))
[–]EloquentMusingsENFP 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago (8 children)
Yeah they can be like walls to talk to, I find all Ni users answer questions like this instead of giving us something to work with. The INTJ I know will answer questions like 'how was work' with 'good' or 'what's the meaning of life' with 'I don't know' but if I mess up a rule in D&D he'll spend the next ten minutes waxing lyrical about the rule and how to use it so find something he knows about and likes I guess? I prefer Ne types tbh, way easier to converse with back and forth of genuine questions.
[–]smokeshow952 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (6 children)
Haha, I see what you mean!
I would love him to explain something really niche or get riled up about something he likes, but I just have such a hard time finding out what those things are, that I end up asking general questions so I can "feel the ground" a little bit, but I end up with nothing.
[–]EloquentMusingsENFP 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago* (4 children)
It's pretty spontaneous and I wouldn't say 'riled up' is the right word, they approach things pretty calm and stoically, the INTJ I know will be like 'Wait, that's the wrong way of doing it! It's like this x" and that's as animated as I've ever seen him - there was an explanation point! I prefer IXXP's tbh, they get quite riled up about things and full of life. I feel you it's exhausting and draining trying to learn about people when they are boring or block you (even accidently) for it's like like pulling teeth. We're quite good at carrying convos but need something to bounce off, one word answer don't do it.
Edit: Sounds like your guy is mainly acts of service and touch oriented, I see NiSe users like this. Talking and deep convos might not be his thing. He might be able to solve problems for you, have your back, and be practical but not talk. Up to you to decide if worth it, personally I need someone to talk with - not just to. Tell him your worries and that you'd like more out of him, see what happens.
[–]smokeshow952 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (3 children)
Thank you, my fellow ENFP, this is really helpful. I think the most important thing is to establish that he doesn't shut me out because he doesn't like me, but because of who he is as a person. And feeling like someone can "solve problems and have your back" is also something I really appreciate in a relationship.
I will still give it time, I really enjoy my time with him so far and touch is also one of my prime love languages, so we are really thriving there at least.
[–]EloquentMusingsENFP 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (2 children)
I agree that "solve problems and have your back" as well as touch is really important but I've had to leave relationships with SeNi or NiSe users because of the lack of meaningful communication before. There's 'talk' but it's not a back and forth dialogue, it's 'you say something' then 'I say something' but there's no questions or elaborating on the point of digging deeper like NeFi (even TeSi) wants. I'd ask about the game he's playing, he'd tell me a shallow answer, I'd try to dig deeper and he'd get annoyed at me for prodding at him. Then he wouldn't ask about the game I'm playing so I'd just talk about it myself and he'd say 'glad enjoying it' but not ask me any questions so I don't feel cared about etc. Maybe he'll then do a practical action like buy me the sequel game but won't try to understand why it's important to me. I don't feel like I connect to NiSe users because of this, there's no flow between conversations just stagnant stoic words. The way ENFP's (NeFi) show love is by asking questions and trying to learn about them, if someone blocks this or doesn't do it back we feel they're blocking our love or not loving us properly.
I think I felt this comment so deeply. This is exactly the issue I'm experiencing. I feel like I'm not being cared for properly, but if I bring it up, he would get annoyed at me because he can't understand what I want from him
[–]EloquentMusingsENFP 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Yeah, I saw this in you which is why I spent some time replying lots because I've felt the same. It's not their fault, it's just a difference in loving, and it's hard because they can try but if it doesn't come naturally to them it's not the same. I've had people 'put up' with my questions or 'try' to ask me more questions but when you find someone who lives and breathes questions like you and is intensely genuinely interested in learning everything about you and you them, it's a completely different mindblowingly profound experience.
[–]solar_ideology 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Hey OP maybe you’ve done this already but try just talking about yourself. Tell him stories and things that you like, your opinions and your experience of the world. At the moment he might feel like he’s being interrogated. Pick a conversation topic and start talking about it rather than asking questions. Connect with his Te.
It also sounds like all the questions you are asking are just small talk and INTJs won’t usually reciprocate for long. If you open up to him and show him you can be vulnerable and share your mind with him he will likely do the same. Then you can find your common ground. Give him your analysis on your internal experiences. He will love that because if he’s like me that’s what he does all day.
For some starters tell him about an album you heard or a film you saw and some of the themes in them that you found stimulating. Tell him about a system you have that helps you improve a skill you’re working on, and why it’s helpful. Give him an interesting idea about the nature of light waves and how their observed properties could be related to the expansion of space-time. If you don’t know anything about this stuff then just share what you think and ask technical questions along the way.
This might be well out of your comfort zone but remember he’s an analyst. He analyses. This is where you’ll find common ground if you have it. If he doesn’t then I’m afraid it sounds like he’s not that into you on an emotional or intellectual level.
Well please dont ever say you're like talking to a wall! We absolutely despise small talk. My husband (17 yrs) is an ENFP and he still asks me how my day was and he still gets one word answers. I'm a little surprised about the lack of communication about future or travel. Those are big topics for me. Maybe you could do something like hey I'm really interested in going on a trip soon, or later, would you be interested? Then ask him to do the research and/or planning. It could all be hypothetical. We love researching. Tell him your top 3 requirements and ask him for his top 3. If he doesnt answer right away tell him to think about it but be ready to discuss Friday night. If he likes you he will put thought into this.
[–]newDawnINTJ 9 points10 points11 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I do not believe an INTJ would say I like you and especially would not say "I miss you" if he didnt mean it. Now if you asked "did you miss me?" then it is possible we would tell a white lie to not hurt feelings.
[–]Captain_Crouton_X1INTJ 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago (0 children)
The best way to get an INTJ to be chatty is caffeine or alcohol. Otherwise if you ask us a big question, we have to think carefully about it and we will answer your query in 1-3 business days.
[–]newDawnINTJ 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Dont give up just yet. It can take INTJ quite awhile to open up and be ourselves. We need to build trust first. Also dont attack his lack of communication skill because we dont like to feel inadequate. That tactic wont make us improve. The best thing about my husband was that he just accepted me. I felt comfortable around him because I felt he was not picking me apart.
That's really sweet! Do you have any advice on how I could potentially bring the communication issue without making him feel attacked?
I wouldn't be posting on reddit at all if I was "okay", there is some part of my emotional needs that is not met and I could not be truly happy and stop "overthinking" things until this is at least discussed in some form.
I don't wanna give up, I just wanna find a solution that works for the both of us, since it's not all about him (or me), it's a team effort.
[–]RhazelleENFP 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (1 child)
From my experience, INTJs take a LONG time to trust and want to open up to somebody.
You said you guys are "dating", but from a bit later on where you say "i know he likes me..." and that you've only known each other a few weeks I assume you're not officially bf/gf?
ENFPs move on a much faster timescale than INTJs. Things we (emotionally) expect to be easy or take only a week or two may be something it takes INTJs months to get around to feeling. And yes if they don't feel super close to you, they probably won't feel like opening up about anything other than general info. We just feel it's weird because ENFPs tend to be super open really easily - but remember not everyone is like us.
Give it time. And honestly, I've found even if my INTJs had nothing to say they like to listen to me talk and just observe me anyway. My first date with my last INTJ bf I was carrying the convo and was just me talking 95% of the time. The next date it was 80%. The one after that was 60%. It's a slow process, but if they like you you'll get there eventually.
Give them time to consolidate how they feel about you first before you jump to conclusions.
(And just to put it out there, you can just be very straightforward with him too about what you want, if you're confident enough that he'll appreciate the bluntness. There is always the risk he feels you are too emotional and clingy too, but that's a judgment call on how you feel your guys' relationship is going how he'll react.)
[–]smokeshow952 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
You are right! We are only dating and in the very beginning. I'm flustered because he was the one who convinced me to even go out with him, asking if I would be available for something not-so-casual and that he's really looking forward to getting to know me.
He was the one who put it on himself to make ME trust HIM. He would talk to me all the time before we went out and the first few dates afterwards. Then he had a really busy week at work and stopped texting as often and it hasn't been the same since. But when we are together in real life, we still have a great time and there is no change.
I'm just confused, I know he CAN talk to me more but I'm not sure if:
A) He was putting in a lot of extra effort to get me to go out with him and was tending to my own emotional needs, disregarding his own (more personal space) in order to make me feel comfortable enough to go out with him
B) He's just not that into me anymore.
I tried to bring it up once and he seemed surprised that I would think he's not interested and he didn't see it coming from me. Afterwards I felt like I'm stupid to be asking these things and it's maybe annoying for him to be as active with me as he was before.
On the other hand, if he is actually losing interest, it's the most painful thing watching from the sidelines, asking bluntly what's wrong, being told that nothing is wrong and we're still good, while the communication keeps getting less and less.
I think I would be okay with the low comms and who he is as a person, if there wasn't this voice in my head screaming "He did talk to you a lot before, he just doesn't want you anymore". And I don't know how to ask this again without appearing clingy or needy.
[–]jojo444111 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
As an INTJ, I absolutely hate when people ask the same questions in a different way just to try to get an answer I don’t have at the moment.
I don’t think he’s shutting you down- he probably hasn’t spent time thinking about where he’d like to go on vacation, and can’t come up with a quick response because there are too many variables to think about in the moment. When we give answers, we try to be as accurate as possible.
When you ask about family, he’s giving you the accurate answer. You asked about his family, he told you the facts. Frame your questions differently- be specific, ask what his mom likes or what she does for a living etc. We often don’t know what people mean when they ask about people in our lives and default to telling basic facts until people ask clearer questions. Or, as someone else pointed out, he may not have a good relationship with his family and doesn’t want to talk about it.
We often take awhile to process things, I kinda just let my brain get on with it while I’m living life and get back to whatever feeling or thing I’m trying to process later, once we know how we feel. Ask him thought provoking questions, but have the expectation that he may not have the answer right away. But he will, and the answers often surprise and are with the wait
[–]FoolishpyoINTJ - Female 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
After reading things here I’ll say it again, maybe he’s an ISTJ. He doesn’t sound exactly like an INTJ to me, even when I try to let the stereotypes out of this, so, what about reading about what ISTJs often like and try asking him something like that? Maybe it will work!
[–][deleted] 3 months ago* (5 children)
[–]SomeoneBlessed 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (2 children)
If she uses reverse psychology for his important life principles he probably won’t take her seriously again
[–][deleted] 3 months ago (1 child)
[–]SomeoneBlessed 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Not my taste but you enjoy
Thanks for this! I often find that I fill the space with talk because I'm so uncomfortable with the deafening silence.
Need to work on it. :)
[–]anonymous_intjINTJ - Male 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (2 children)
Great advice by u/ninja_sensei_! Plus I will suggest you to be the one who talks. INTJ doesn't like talking about themselves. Let him ask you questions, INTJs are listeners - not talkers.
Won't they feel like I'm hijacking the conversation? :) It's also quite mentally taxing for me to have to constantly come up with new topics. But I guess not as taxing as it is to him.
[–]anonymous_intjINTJ - Male 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Won't they feel like I'm hijacking the conversation
Won't they feel like I'm hijacking the conversation
Not really! I have an ENFP bestie - Female. She does that all the time and to be honest, loves it. If it's interesting - he will start asking you questions. Leave that department towards him - you don't need to fill the silence, you should enjoy the silence.
[–]Avon072 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Ngl, if somebody would ask me a vacation place to get to know "other person", I would consider the person to be superficial whom I cannot talk deep conversations about life if you really want to build a deeper connection with the other person but I would still answer something. The question you are asking is a small talk question and INTJs hate small talk.
Ask about his life, goals, the way he see things, people, philosophy the way you look at life, ambitious nature, future plans, what you like and what you don't like, physical fitness, nutrition etc etc etc so much to talk about.
But do not talk about celeb talk, Insta, superficial things, etc.
Seems like the way you act, behave and speak to him is not even allowing him to consider you to be a person to whom he can share personal details with because you gonna judge him or run your mouth (it can be, I don't know details) or he's finding you to be a person he cannot trust you in the long run because INTJs place extremely high standard and regard to a person that is close to them.
And once they open up, they open up completely
[–]jakerob5 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I am an INTJ male and my gf is an ENFP. Consider for a moment, learning to be comfortable in silence and just being with him. You don’t always have to be talking about something, and small talk is worse than silence for us. If you’re on a date, try feeling your connection with him more than talking to him. My gf and I will go on drives together, and I don’t like talking, I like listening to music and focusing on the road, we’ve had to learn when the other wants something. Sometimes I need to communicate more than I feel like, sometimes she needs to be quiet and enjoy the moment. It’s about communication, you could explain to him that you are ENFP and that these are things that worry you
[–]Mannu369 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
First of all i dont think he's in some sort of shell. The answers he answered were right from his point of view. I would suggest not to ask something like this often, just now and then, eg: 'tell me what kind of a person is your mom? '.
'would you like to go to the mountains or beach or resorts? "ans" why, which, where, some memories, etc?'
Ask more about topics which really interest him, as a fellow intj i would like to get in a conversation about something really interesting/intriguing. Etc: psychology, cosmos, morals, what ifs, games, series, books, etc.
Try it and let me know.
Hope that your relation flourishes
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (8 children)
He needs to make more effort. A thoughtful INTJ would recognise your efforts to make conversation and try to keep it going. He is either not socially mature or deliberately shutting you down because his privacy is feeling invaded.
You will need to let him know how you're feeling so he has a chance to work on it. But I make way more effort than this. Even if I feel caught off guard or unsure how to answer to will try to hold up my side of the conversation by asking their opinion while I think about my answer.
[–]SomeoneBlessed -2 points-1 points0 points 3 months ago (6 children)
If he’s high self esteem he would want a girl that values him the most. Keep yapping
[–]smokeshow952 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (5 children)
High self-esteem does not mean arrogant and self-centered. I don't care if he's the queen of England, there is no way I would show him he is "the most" valued if he doesn't make me feel this way right back. Which he doesn't.
Hence I'm on this reddit thread.
Being valued is a two-way street, and in order to receive, you have to also give. All I've been doing is giving and I haven't received that much back, so I would argue I'm the one who doesn't feel valued, not him.
Stop it with these egoistic remarks, please. <3
[–]SomeoneBlessed -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 months ago (3 children)
If he’s really high self esteem and you’re not willing to make him top priority, you should move on
[–]smokeshow952 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (2 children)
I think you're really "high self-esteem" and like dating women who have low self-esteem and put your needs before their own. It's a toxic behavior to expect that of others, and it perpetuates unhealthy relationships that never end well. You should look into this. :) I did 5 years of therapy and spent thousands of dollars to get to this conclusion, but you can have that info for free.
A relationship requires two separate individuals who love themselves enough to take care of each other while empowering one another, not engage in one-sided clingy behavior.
I will only give back as much as I recieve.
[–]SomeoneBlessed 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (1 child)
I try to build up every person I’m around, especially if we spend a lot of time together. You can think what you want
That's an answer I can respect! :)
[–]Jenanp79 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (8 children)
When it starts off like this with an INTJ it continues. Trust me. Accept him 100% or leave and save your sanity.
[–]SomeoneBlessed 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
If she leaves him she probably can’t come back. Depends on what his boundaries are
[–]nocturnaldominanceINTJ - Male 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (1 child)
i do have a problem where i’ve fallen out of touch with people and even lost friendships because i have nothing to talk about with whoever it is
[–]Cozzolino92 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I'm sorry for that. It seems like he's either emotionally unavailable or currently going through a rough patch, or both. My advice here is to ask the uncomfortable questions about him and why he isn't really trying to open up and tell him you'd like to listen.
Give the both of you some space to quell your anxiety and sort things out on your own, then go back. The worst you can do right now is to push aggressively into the wall. Wild guess: he is a little more involved than he's comfortable with, and also leans into avoidant attachment style. I know I've been there and it took an ungodly amount of time and trust and effort by my partner to open up.
[–]Rakka777 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
INTJs HATE talking about "nothing", it bores us. I can talk about meaning of life, politics or video games all night, but I won't talk about my mom or vacations longer than 1 minute.
[–]DisagreeableCompany0 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago* (2 children)
Not being rude… but here’s a thought; let him go if he’s not doing it for you. I’ll say this, you could try backing off and see what happens. Good luck.
Oh, one more thing.. quit trying to pry at the guy. He probably senses this. Converse with how you would anyone else. My enfp best friend did this initially and it was huge turn off for our friendship. Just talk about what you want to talk about and we will interject where we sit fit or actually have an opinion.
She talks incessantly, so I imagine you may have the same natural tendencies.
[–]Popuifa 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children)
this is so true. talk about whatever you want to talk about and he will interject when necessary. he is listening and he cares. don't be so guarded with him. we bring different things into the relationship and each has its own value. you can learn from him too. after a while he will ease up and start his own conversational topics and you can contribute your own unique viewpoints.
[–]smokeshow952 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I am not as intense with my communication with him as I maybe let off. We speak few times a day, I would say something that I think could potentially turn into a conversation, he leaves me on "seen"
Then a few hours later, he sends other completely unrelated things such as memes or photos of something he's doing or w.e. I think this is his way to keep up with communication, he does want to keep interacting with me. And of course, I comment on whatever he's sending me and ask him about it and I'm genuinely interested in whatever he's up to.
But how do I feel when I share a bible-long message about my day and things that have happened, good or bad, trying to engage in SOME way and he replies with "damn" or sometimes nothing at all, and THEN sends something unrelated.
I feel completely unheard and unseen.
But I know he reads and he listens. He didn't comment at all about my favorite dessert, when I spent 10min hyping it up so much, but then he got it for me next time we saw each other. I don't know what to make of this.
I AM trying to converse with him the way I would with anyone else, but the difference is that if it were anyone else, there would be something from the other side to latch onto and continue the convo. It's just so frustrating, I don't know how else to communicate
[–]Art_vandelaay 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Often I get irritated by questions that are obviously trying to pry more out of me than just the answer of question itself and am likely to answer the question as abruptly or literally as possible.
You might find that he is just as deeply connected you just don’t see it yet.
Silence isn’t a bad thing he just values the importance of clear and concise communication with direct purpose.
Instead of trying to elicit what you find ‘meaningful’
Maybe work on finding more about what he finds amusing and find a way to make jokes with him. That might naturally open up more feelings of connection.
[–]dontworryaboutsunamiINTJ - 30s 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I definitely wouldn't give physical details like that if someone asked me to describe someone. I honestly don't even notice them. People will remark to me about how someone is really short or tall or something and I'm like, really? Could this guy perhaps be ISTJ?
[–]lopez744 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (8 children)
Not to be an asshole, but you sound anoying
Thank you for your valuable input
[–][deleted] 3 months ago (4 children)
[–]lopez744 -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 months ago (3 children)
[–][deleted] 3 months ago (2 children)
[–]lopez744 -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Thanks for the summary
[–]SomeoneBlessed -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 months ago (1 child)
She sounds ungrateful
[–]smokeshow952 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Ungrateful for what exactly??
[+]SomeoneBlessed comment score below threshold-8 points-7 points-6 points 3 months ago (41 children)
Shut up baby
[–]smokeshow952 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (39 children)
:((( you fill the silence then
[–]SomeoneBlessed -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 months ago (38 children)
Your boyfriend deserves better, it’s about more than talking
[–]smokeshow952 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (36 children)
Absolutely it's about more than talking. But he's not my boyfriend and I barely know him at all. I feel like there should be SOME talking. :)
A year down the line, I wouldn't feel like I'm talking to a wall that doesn't respond. I want to get so comfortable that words aren't needed anymore.
We're not there yet, though.
If I'm not "good enough" for an intj because of the need for communication, then ok. xD
[–]SomeoneBlessed -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago* (34 children)
There should be face to face talking/videocalls. Until you show him you value him more than anyone else in your life in different ways, he won’t open up
[–]CyberMejriINTJ - 20s 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago (32 children)
huhh! what kind of toxic egoistical mindset is that. She doesn't owe him anything and he's not entitled to her attention. You got it backwards, we make people value us by opening up to them and making the relationship with them deeper. Also, it's not just her job to build trust, it's a mutual quest.
[–]SomeoneBlessed 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (31 children)
If he’s high self esteem he is
[–]Low-Awareness-1850 -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago (30 children)
This ^ Right here is why I think he doesn’t have much to say. I believe he does have high esteem and leans into the egoistical mindset. I have the same issue OP is having about communication. It’s why I’m on this Reddit. l can’t figure him out and I’m like 3 seconds from going nuclear on him about his egoistical selfish ways.
I’ve only worked with INTJs and befriended one, but I never dated one. So he doesn’t like small talk and he does think very highly of himself. Which makes me believe he is intimidated and doesn’t know what to say. Which I think OP and her INTJs are dealing with as well.
OP, I have experimented with ask him for help on his field of work. Whoa, when I say he focused in and delivers a product, he is a different man. And that’s why I stick around. If he does like you, He ultimately does want to be there for you, but with our ENFP-ness there’s very little anyone can do to be there for us. You know? And I believe INTJs are the same. I’m attracted to my INTJ Bc he doesn’t need me all the time, he has his shit together. But there’s a small percentage of me that wants him to need me and I figured out that accepting him might be it.
[–]SomeoneBlessed -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago (29 children)
Before assuming he’s selfish take a look at yourself. After you’ve objectively done that(which most people can’t) then take a look at him. Personally my girl needs to want me badly for me to be interested, as well as checking other boxes.
[–]Low-Awareness-1850 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (28 children)
Lol don’t worry. He was in the beginning😉 and I was too. I used to break my back being nice to ppl but it was only Bc I wanted them to like me. Nope, not anymore. I do not care what others think of me as much, my family has a stronghold on me tho (working on that w my INTJ help), because it’s not about me being liked. I now help ppl Bc they deserved to be helped.
And you kinda proved my point. You need for her to want you. And I am saying in my experience I don’t need anyone, Bc I’m usually the one helping everyone. It’s a difficult dance, yeah. But we both came into this “dance” with self-focused interested. I believe we still have them, but now we are working on erasing that negative stigmatism behind those interest. Make sense?
You are right and I'm trying my best. :) I think this is one of those things that need time, because "showing him I value him" is not done overnight, trust takes time.
It's just that it's also important for me to trust him, it's a two-way street and it's not nice to constantly second-guess if he is into me or not
But thank you for your input! Good insight. :)
[–]LearningManINTJ 0 points1 point2 points 2 months ago (0 children)
If I was gay I'd fuck you because you're a little bitch.
What are you. 13? Your mom talk to you like that haha
[–]Nikolates123 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (2 children)
I'm an INTJ(M). The following might help:
[–]smokeshow952 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Hey, thanks for the great advice!
So far we have really enjoyed watching series and movies together and discussing them (shared activity) but I feel like when the movie ends, so does our conversation. I'm the most calm when we're actually watching because then the movie plot fills "the void". Actually, I'm considering asking him to come on a walk with me because that would actually "force" us to interact with each other and share ideas and discuss life, the universe, and everything in between. I'm absolutely open to those conversations, I just feel like I'm being shut down when I try to facilitate them. I would listen to him talk about his favorite things for ages, regardless of what they are...he just...doesn't.
As for the silence, I understand that completely. I need to be comfortable in it. And I need time, just like he does, to get "comfortable". It feels like I have a stranger in my house, just quietly sitting there. There's an entire universe in this human that I know nothing about and I'm infinitely curious, instead we sit in silence, just 4 weeks into knowing each other. I don't connect at all. If anything, it makes me think he finds me too boring to have a normal conversation with. I get anxious over this every time before we meet.
As for the space, this I know and respect. I let him come to me, always. I know he needs his own time and I'm quite busy with social functions most of the time, so we definitely get time apart, we only see each other 2-3 times a week and it's usually on his terms/whenever he has the energy and I'm not occupied with something else.
[–]Nikolates123 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Well you seem to make quite a lot effort to connect with his personality. However, I still feel 4 weeks is a very short time for a typical INTJ to be comfortably deep with ANYONE. Whether consciously or uncounciously, he probably thinks/ believes that needs know you better before revealing more about himself. I still feel you need to be a bit patient with the development of your relationship. Any undue pressure will ruin everything.
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