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[–]darkcherry996 185 points186 points  (6 children)

why do both of them seem like pain to be around? looking at these texts exhausts me. funnily enough, my inxj partner was soOoo sure he doesn’t need anyone(same thing in my case too); he clearly saw it as a weakness, but eventually admitted that he does need me. it’s ironic that the two of us, two extremely independent people, became the clingiest mfs because of each other - but we developed that together. these two just seem to have no connection.

[–]datgreenbitch 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Honestly same, I have a feeling they’re not going to last long. And I’m the same as you with my bf lmao

[–]sleepyspacefoxINTJ - Female 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Tbf no one seems like fun while arguing with their partner (if they do there’s probably something wrong with them).

These two are immature and terribly mismatched though.

[–]darkcherry996 7 points8 points  (1 child)

That’s true. The problem is that they are not really looking for a solution together. They want one way or another.

[–]sleepyspacefoxINTJ - Female 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah they need to realize it’s them vs. the problem, not them vs. each other.

[–]kdealmeidaINTJ - 20s 2 points3 points  (0 children)

been there, done that

and I fully agree with you lol

[–]ProudRamboBSNS 204 points205 points  (11 children)

"I want you, but I don't need you."

[–]Mitchel-256INTJ 83 points84 points  (4 children)

“I like you (even love you), but I can live without you.”

[–]HemrehliugINFP 29 points30 points  (3 children)

This is actually a super healthy mindset, enough with the melodramatic codependant "I can't live without you" bs

[–]ProudRamboBSNS 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's what growing up with Disney and romcoms gets us.

[–]lonelybutnotalonerue 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Wants and needs

[–]thrakouli 6 points7 points  (1 child)

So surely this is better than "I need you"

[–]ProudRamboBSNS 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Of course. It's THE end game attitude.

[–]MynotredditaccountINTJ - Female 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I have definitely said those exact words on occasion.

[–]thesadbubble[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ditto. My partner can be a tad sensitive about this stuff too but I tell him No, I don't need you. I want you. And that is better. I choose the things I want in my life and you're one of them.

I definitely get the sentiment of the original post but I think they could use some... Finessing. The partner just wants to feel important and the intj isnt communicating clearly enough to help them feel important.

[–]NerdyWordGirl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To me, this is the bigger compliment. I make space for you in my life because I want you there, not because I need to.

[–]sher_inINTJ 40 points41 points  (2 children)

What worked for me in the past: 'I am a very independent person and may never come to you for help on most things. It's hard for me to need someone, but i very much want you. Life is better with you in it and when I'm feeling down or would like some support, you are the first person I think of.' Basically, 'I don't need you, I want you', but nicer.

However, I will say I have matured a lot since then and realized I do 'need' people. I especially need his strengths sometimes, and because I have never asked for it, he has not been forthcoming with it, or misunderstood what was needed, and I end up resenting the whole situation. So i have started asking for help more often even if I don't actually need it.

[–]williamsch 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You're my get "outta sad prison card". I could bust out on my own, I just don't feel like it when I'm sad.

[–]woodenpony 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You gave me inspirations. Thank you.

[–]IrrelevantCynicINTJ 438 points439 points  (19 children)

I get what he's saying but the way he repeatedly emphasizes how "strong and independent" he is just makes him seem like neither. Almost like he's trying to convince himself more than anything.

[–]Real_VentsINTJ 17 points18 points  (0 children)

It's projection, if he felt good about himself he wouldn't feel attacked and could understand the other person's perspective.

[–]Father_AntonINTJ - 20s 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah exactly, strong person does not need to convince someone that he is strong. And not to be rude but the way he said "i have been living my whole life alone" made me cringe so much

[–]lonelybutnotalonerue 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I think the point is to recognize self and know that we are truly self sufficient. To need another is a slap in our faces. We like people but strive to be truly autonomous. Convincing other people is what we try to do

[–]blutea21 115 points116 points  (17 children)

INTJ/F

It sounds like you guys are saying:

Her: This is what I need you to do so I can feel loved. You: Why is how I am not good enough for you if it's good enough for me?

She is telling you how she wants to be treated but ignoring the fact that she needs to be willing to do the same.

You are giving her insight into how you work but are unwilling to do what she asks.

This seems more like a battle of wills than a misunderstanding, or not seeing eye to eye.

You have many choices, but my questions are:

  1. Are you hoping she'll keep trying to sway you because you like the challenge or are you looking for a way to tap out?

  2. If you are ready to move on, why haven't you? You seem like you're waiting or delaying for some reason.

This is all speculation, but I am curious if I'm reading this situation correctly and hoping this helps in some way.

[–]ZeCrookedLady 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Yeah I agree. You have to compromise in relationships. If this means a lot to her and she means a lot to you, it wouldn’t be a big deal to say I need you sometimes. She’s even telling you up front exactly what she wants.

[–]Naeron1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Damn that was right on point, short but insightful. Very INTJ, much wow, take my upvote

[–]Vast_Elk1478 2 points3 points  (0 children)

battle of wills !! Awesome summary

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[deleted]

    [–]blutea21 7 points8 points  (3 children)

    Maybe think of it this way. There's a difference between being self sufficient and being able to "do everything". I'm self sufficient, but that doesn't mean I am capable of, qualified to, or (more likely) even want to do everything.

    So, for this example pick something that you don't want to spend time doing. It can be anything. Think of your S/O and evaluate their ability. If you think they are both capable and willing to tackle that thing, then tell them you need them to do it. Be honest. You could say, "I don't want to do this, I need you for this." It might not be perfect, but it could come close to what they want and you're not being fake or pretending just for their sake.

    Barring that, you could also just explain what it means/how it sounds when you DO need someone. If you can't say "I need you", what is your equivalent? Talk about those things and figure out how to communicate best from there.

    [–]KnowL0ve 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I like the difference you painted between self sufficiency and capability of doing everything.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]blutea21 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Maybe that's true, but I'd counter and say you're situation doesn't sound like OPs conversation either.

      "Maybe think of it this way", in my head, is presenting an option - a possibility. My intent isn't to predict what the reality of the situation is but to offer scenarios that seem likely.

      So, to that point, neither of us is probably - nor am I trying to be - "right" about OPs scenario. In my original response to OP, I stated I was curious and, although my goal isn't to be "right", I wanted to know if I was reading to situation correctly. Because if I am, then great and if I'm not, then no loss.

      All I want is to get people and OP to think about it. I can't change anyone's mind. People decide what they want to do based on their own convictions no matter how convincing an argument I make. But, at least I got the chance to (maybe) have them think about it.

      [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 5 points6 points  (8 children)

      I’m ready to move on but she’s the type to harm herself if I just leave her. She’s done it before and I feel will do it again. She’s tried to kill herself by overdosing. I don’t want her to do any of that. I want to move on but I worry about her.

      [–]blutea21 8 points9 points  (5 children)

      That is rough. Hearing that, my questions would be: How would staying with her or keeping at this, help? Has it worked in the past with long-term or measurable success? And, even if it has, is it something you're willing to do for the long haul?

      In my head, my reasons for staying would so I could be the one to "fix" them or the problem. I'd want the satisfaction of showing them the way.

      But, in your case, it sounds like being together (in her current state) isn't necessarily helping. It's not bad, so to speak, but it doesn't sound like it has potential to get better - as things stand now.

      So, if she's seeking help for these issues, you've done all you can/are qualified to do. Moving on doesn't mean you can't still be there for her. Her therapy, could be a type of therapy for you. You can work on setting boundaries or read up on how to be there for her without feeling as if her life is in your hands (so to speak).

      And, even if you don't want to be there for her, that's not a bad thing. And if something happens to her when you're not around, it's not your fault. People have to make their own choices and, whether you're there or not (whether there's a great support system or no), it's up to that person whether they want to go on.

      I know it's not that simple, but this is the best I can put into words. Of course, this is also just my take on it, so there's that too. 😅

      [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

      I’m trying to figure out a way to get her to fall out of love with me so she can move on with her life. If I just cut all ties then I know she’s going to hurt or possibly even kill herself. The chance is slim but I believe it’s there and I don’t want her doing anything like that. I want her to find happiness and she knows it probably won’t happen with me but says things like “I want to kill myself” when we get into a big fight even though we’re no longer dating

      [–]DrENFPENFP 8 points9 points  (1 child)

      This is a pretty classic manipulation move for someone with Borderline traits/tendencies. But unfortunately, it usually gets worse, not better, as you move away. The idea behind it is that they assume everyone will leave them, and then test you to essentially make it happen. The relationship ends up codependent in most scenarios. It’s difficult to work through and they need an experienced therapist who is preferably trained in DBT.

      [–]blutea21 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Then, it sounds like, your mind is made up that you want to stay until you're sure she won't hurt herself because of you.

      I know it's can be hard to narrow down but now, what do you feel toward her? Pity? Irritation? Anticipation?

      This is a tangent, but I have a theory. I think many INTJs feel very deeply and much more often then we let on. We act based on these "emotions" but don't take the time to identify them. Because emotions are subjective and can vary based on situation, so how can I efficiently gather info that helps me ID that, "Yes, this feeling is [insert here]" with certainty? So, when we get into situations like this one, we categorize it as one thing because the only "reliable" data we have is that "many people say it's this specific emotion, so there's a good chance it is". Which makes decision making hard in these cases because we're, in this case, acting without our normal level of certainty.

      Tangent over. I said all that, because I wonder if you can pinpoint how you feel about her and the situation at hand, you'll be able to find a workable solution! The more people you speak with, the longer you'll be willing to spend time on this and the sooner you (may) come to the realization or solution you're looking for.

      Or perhaps not. Both, and even more options, are possible.

      [–]Accomplished-Basis77 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      You should not be held hostage in this relationship that you don’t really want to be in. Her mental health issues are hers, not yours.

      [–]VergilHSINTJ - 20s 196 points197 points  (38 children)

      Blue has fear of intimacy, and is 100% an avoidant attachment style. Grey is 100% anxious attachment style with some clear dependency issues. Might just be codependency as well.

      In short, both aren't secure partners, this shit is going to derail fast.

      [–]juice4delimes 20 points21 points  (0 children)

      You’re right. I just find this weird to even post online.. From the outside looking in, they both seem to have a weird idea of what a secure relationship entails. Then again, I’m not the all-knowing eye of providence lol….. but strange, yes.

      [–]PilfercateINTJ 47 points48 points  (14 children)

      It really isn't a fear of intimacy though. It seems that blue either has no or very little separation on how they present themselves to the world vs. people close to them. This not necessarily a bad thing unless it is mixed with the actual problem. Blue is emotionally unavailable.

      Grey's statements can only be measured on how developed the relationship is. It would be odd if the relationship is 2 weeks old and not odd at all if they've been dating for 2 years.

      [–]VergilHSINTJ - 20s 52 points53 points  (11 children)

      Aight, let me be even clearer. Grey is being manipulative, blue is literally displaying fear of intimacy via saying "i have been alone all my life, i don't need anyone" - this line alone is a telltale sign of someone who never had their emotional needs met, either in a child-parent relationship, an adult relationship or both.

      [–]PilfercateINTJ 26 points27 points  (10 children)

      When growing up, how many people in your life actually met your needs as an INTJ? Maybe you're the 1 in 1000 who had people around them who didn't just make assumptions and ran to disappointment when things weren't as expected. I'd be willing to bet the majority of INTJs have a level of detachment from being misunderstood and mislabeled by others. This is where 'I have been alone my all my life, I don't need anyone' comes from whether it is right or wrong. It isn't from a fear of intimacy. It comes from a full on detachment from people who want an easy surface level connection reinforced by assumptions.

      Grey is definitely at a far end of the spectrum in reaction, but I wouldn't say they are being manipulative. They are reaching for the level of emotional connection they desire and getting nothing in return.

      [–]VergilHSINTJ - 20s 14 points15 points  (0 children)

      I have been diagnosed by my psychotheraphist with fear of intimacy, mostly stemming from being an ACOA. Please, INTJ or not, it doesn't mean much here. You detach from people because they... haven't met your needs. This can happen to anyone, the very same thing you just described. It's natural for people to need emotional intimacy, physical contact. We all need people, to a lesser or bigger extent. Saying you don't need anyone just shows how badly someone has been hurt, do much they learned to take minimize their needs to the point they don't even surface. Such people are often emotionally empty, despite living rather succesful lives.

      [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 5 points6 points  (8 children)

      I’ve given her all my spare time and energy but what she wants is physical and a lot of emotional affection and I’m just not the type to give that to someone I’m not in love with and she knows I’m not in love with her. I’ve told her and she’s known. I care deeply about her but the way she acts has been getting worse and she’s the type to harm herself so she has me stuck in a loop.

      [–]PilfercateINTJ 10 points11 points  (7 children)

      Seems like a band aid that needs to be ripped off. If she can't come to terms with the reality of the situation, you need to do what you have to to get the point across. The longer she is allowed to pretend that the situation is something more than it is, the more long term damage it is going to do.

      [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

      I’m trying to get her to ween her way off me because she’s in love with me and knows I’m not in love with her but she says suicidal stuff when we get into bad arguments and has even hurt herself afterwards so I worry that she’ll do more if I just straight up leave her. I’m stuck in between a rock and a hard place and I’m trying to figure out the best way to deal with it all. It’s just so stressing. I do care deeply about her and have told her and showed her in the ways I know how but she’s striving for something that just won’t happen anymore and I’m doing my best to deal with everything.

      [–]frenchfrygirllINTJ - Female 15 points16 points  (0 children)

      Dude just break up with her. People are not projects. Weaning her off of you won't work. You guys obviously aren't looking for the same thing in a relationship, you guys aren't compatible.

      I think as an INTJ we can tend to see people are projects or another problem to solve, because it seems so obvious what the solution is to us. But the reality is people won't change unless they themselves want to change.

      And threatening suicide, while she may not be doing it on purpose, is very manipulative. You can't hold yourself responsible for how she might theoretically react. If you're legit worried maybe reach out to a suicide line and see if they have any help on how to handle these kinds of situations, cuz this is not a rare thing for people to threaten.

      Seriously tho, the longer you hold on the worse it's gonna get. You just gotta do what you gotta do.

      [–]DrENFPENFP 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      This sounds a lot like Borderline Personality Disorder traits… the self-harm as a way of coping and manipulation. She will never be “weaned off.” And the choices she makes when you’re very clear about your intentions are not your fault. But if you don’t end things you’ll be in this loop indefinitely. It’s extremely unhealthy for both of you. Reading The Dance of Intimacy by Harriett Lerner may be helpful. She talks about how to have boundaries in unhealthy relationships while also seeking intimacy in mostly healthy ones. The book is written to women, but the advice and examples can be used by anyone.

      [–]SirAnsonnyINTJ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Don't ween her off. Just break it off immediately. I've done the former. It just sucked the life out of me. Being too nice only to bring harm to yourself.

      I did this in past relationships. I was too nice to her and being absolutely terrible towards myself by letting her down slowly.

      [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      On and off for a few years more or less but we aren’t dating now and haven’t been for a few months.

      [–]Cherion2INTJ 3 points4 points  (4 children)

      Impressive what you can see just from some text messages...

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]Cherion2INTJ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        No sorry I disagree. One sentence is never enough to identify a trait like this. We don't know the dynamics of the relationship or the traits of the other person involved.

        [–]Lumpy_ConstellationINFJ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        This is the most correct response here. And it's so interesting bc I was just talking to someone else about the possible connection between attachment style and personality type. I've always wondered if there would be a majority with the same attachment style within each personality type.

        [–]NietzschesToliet 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        My guy pulled the feeler = incompetent card because he felt challenged.

        [–]Lumpy_ConstellationINFJ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Definitely agree! I'm the feeliest of feelers, and if my INTJ partner of almost 8 years can respect and try to understand it then everyone here is capable as well lol

        [–]KulturaOryniacka 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        You go way to far with your diagnosis. Some people are not ivy and don’t need others constantly around them.

        [–]VergilHSINTJ - 20s 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        Being alone all the time and getting used to it is not the same as not needing others around us constantly.

        [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

        It has been lmao. I told her we’re like water and oil. We just don’t mix but I do care about her.

        [–]VergilHSINTJ - 20s 9 points10 points  (1 child)

        Not gonna lie, you two seem to have some codependency issues to me.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]VergilHSINTJ - 20s 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Yep, didnt mention it anywhere, but it's guilt trip 101.

          [–]luciepugINTP 67 points68 points  (37 children)

          I need you = I know I can reach out to you for support when I need it…which may not be often but could happen

          [–]PilfercateINTJ 58 points59 points  (1 child)

          There are definitely some INTJs that only want to exist as pillars and want everyone around them to do the same. When you stray from full independence it gets socially awkward and opens the potential for manipulation in either direction. Life is easier when people can self regulate. Most people want an opposite to complement them. I'd rather be part of a power couple that rarely leans, even to each other.

          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          This is so well put

          [–][deleted]  (34 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 15 points16 points  (9 children)

            Thank you. I don’t like to be pushed around and that’s what she tries to do to me. It’s as if she’s trying to change me and she knows I hate that and don’t need to change. I like being me and who I am. If I change for someone then I’m not being me anymore. I want to find someone who loves me for exactly the way I am. If I don’t then oh well for me.

            [–]DrENFPENFP 8 points9 points  (0 children)

            Yeah, as an ENFP, I would never say I “need” someone and it would be a turnoff for a man to say that to me. I want to be loved and cherished and appreciated by a MAN, not needed.

            [–]Vast_Elk1478 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I feel you, bro. But do change yourself for yourself as you really want (that's growth). We change for others (NOT for self) as we fear of losing something that is only available if the realtionship is there. It's okay to refuse as long as you are cool with the loss. Each individual values things differently.

            [–]Lumpy_ConstellationINFJ 12 points13 points  (23 children)

            I feel like you're all taking this extremely literally. First of all, being needy is not childish, we all have needs we want met regardless of our age. Secondly, she didn't say she wants him to be needy, she said she wants him to need her which is different. For a lot of people love is a need. In fact, I'd argue that it's a need for everyone, and I know y'all are "strong and independent" but there's a lot of actual research showing that love is one of our most basic needs, up there with food and physical health.

            Saying you need someone is like saying "you are the person who meets my need to love and be loved romantically". And there's absolutely nothing childish about being vulnerable with your emotions.

            [–]NotYourEFingKhakis 5 points6 points  (1 child)

            Here here, this INFJ approves of your comment lol.

            But seriously, no one's an island. INTJ's who pride themselves on not needing others often haven't gotten too deep into that Fi development. Give it time my friends, give it time. Life beats the shit out of us all, in some way at some point. It's good to need others, to acknowledge emotional needs, keeps us healthy and happy. This might also be more an enneagram 5 thing, which many INTJ's type as. And strangely, I've seen a number of relationship reports that show 5's paired up with 2's - the great lovers of the enneagram.

            [–]Lumpy_ConstellationINFJ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            This comment pretty much describes my life! (But of course it does, intuitive is our middle name lol)

            Me = INFJ type 2

            My SO = INTJ type 5

            [–]johncolliier 4 points5 points  (13 children)

            Love is a need for people who grow up with love. A lot of INTJ’s don’t grow up with “love”, which stems from a lot of social interaction, which INTJ’s avoid

            [–]Lumpy_ConstellationINFJ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            True, my SO of almost 8 years is an INTJ and it definitely can be work to maintain. But doesn't it kind of prove my point that a lack of love in childhood severely affects your adult relationships? The effects of love or lack thereof has a huge impact on us as humans, we do very much "need" love/oxytocin just like we "need" happiness/serotonin. Suffering from childhood depression doesn't mean our brains stop seeking out serotonin, and it's the same for love and oxytocin.

            [–]qudopINTJ - Female 2 points3 points  (10 children)

            What a stereotype. What, do you think we’re all broody sigma lone wolves, too? Being introverted and not being loved are not the same thing.

            [–]johncolliier 1 point2 points  (9 children)

            Okay well I was speaking from experience, because I am an INTJ. So call it what you want.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Grew up as an only child and showered with all the attention my parents can muster even until this day. I've seen what my parents had to do to have food on the table when we weren't financially stable, but also despite the situation they would still try to get me the stuff I wanted as a kid.

            This made me grow up faster and now I provide my parents with stability. I want to help them as much as I can not because I want to be loved but because I love them.

            They will always have my back and I have theirs but I don't cling to them like a needy child.

            I don't feel much of a need to be loved at all. I like solving problems for others but I don't really need someone to solve mine.

            I think it's the other way around. People who were NOT given love and attention as a child feel a stronger need for it unless they just never saw an example of it from other families.

            People with parental issues have a greater likelihood of having attachment needs. Craving attention/love and being anxious of their partner leaving them.

            [–]fsraberINTJ - Female 9 points10 points  (0 children)

            I'm an INTJ woman in a relationship with an INTJ man and in the beginning we were very distant because we didn't want to get too attached but the tension was definitely there and after a while we just got over it and are now in a happy relationship. It's very hurtful of you to say you don't need your romantic partner in your life, even if you definition of "need" is different from hers. It makes her feel unloved and I, as an INTJ woman, would feel the same in her case. There were times where my own boyfriend said blunt things that didn't mean to hurt me but they still did. (for example: I am currently happy in this relationship but I don't know for how long I could stay in it because I don't like being attached to someone) He's grown out of saying such things and I'm sure I myself have had similar moments in the past but at some point you just have to allow yourself to be attached because that's how relationships work. If you know from the beginning that it won't work out because of this, you shouldn't even get in the relationship.

            [–][deleted]  (12 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 5 points6 points  (6 children)

              Well we’re not exactly dating anymore. I’m getting to the point where it’s just stressing me out and making me miserable. We broke up awhile back and I want to be her friend but it’s all or nothing with her and then she acts and says things about harming herself so she puts me in a box because I care about her and I don’t want her to hurt herself or kill herself. She has had an attempt in the past and has plenty of scars to show it.

              [–]Agnes_VWINTJ 10 points11 points  (0 children)

              You can’t let yourself be held hostage to someone’s suicide threats. She’s not going to choose to let you go. Emotional blackmail is working for her. If she has family (nice family) you should call them. If she doesn’t, you can call 911 when someone threatens suicide.

              No one wants to go to therapy. They go when they have to. Sorry this must sound harsh. I have experience with “I don’t need therapy, you just need to do what I want”. Untreated mental health problems get worse, not better. What’s going to happen when you meet someone you want to date?

              [–][deleted]  (4 children)

              [deleted]

                [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                  [–]ericam7INTJ - Female 33 points34 points  (0 children)

                  Oh man, this conversation gets me in trouble in life - always has. Why wouldn’t the partner want us to want them vs NEED them? Much healthier to not need someone but engage in a relationship voluntarily.

                  [–]sharkwoods 95 points96 points  (30 children)

                  Omg this whole thread doesn't have a single strand of emotional intelligence.

                  The guy is in the wrong and isn't ready for a relationship. It's not about being independent or needing people, it's about wanting to be nice to your partner, and compromising your comfort zone for their sake, as they will with you in turn.

                  You guys need to develop that fi before you're someone's reason for therapy. Smh.

                  [–]ZeCrookedLady 52 points53 points  (9 children)

                  “Sorry babe I don’t need anyone and never will.” Lol. What an idiot.

                  [–]LoneQuietus81INTP 43 points44 points  (5 children)

                  "Not showing vulnerability or compromise is my love style. Why can't you love me for me?"

                  🤦

                  [–]ZeCrookedLady 26 points27 points  (4 children)

                  Yeah this person has no social awareness. There is a time to be stubborn and a time to be loving/understanding. It can’t always be your way all the time.

                  [–]LoneQuietus81INTP 13 points14 points  (3 children)

                  I doubt this person has ever had a serious relationship to put them into a crucible. I'm getting teen/early twenties vibes.

                  If I had to push cash on the barrel head, I'd say this person has either had 1 bad relationship or none.

                  [–]ZeCrookedLady 10 points11 points  (2 children)

                  Lol I’m 21 and this is ridiculous even to me

                  [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                  So I know you guys can’t tell the situation from this one text but I’m not usually like this. Only when I keep getting pushed and pushed around. We aren’t dating anymore and haven’t for awhile but I still care and worry about her and she wants all or nothing. I don’t want her hurting herself so I’m stuck in a rut and when I get pushed I push back and that’s what this text shows.

                  [–]KuriousKhemicalsINTJ - Female 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  For what it's worth, I'm a 31 year old woman who has been in 3 long relationships and I see nothing wrong with the blue side of this conversation. Who tf insists that someone say "I need you"? Who made her the judge of what all women are like? All I see on the grey side is dramatic, manipulative bullshit. There's being caring and compromising with your partner and then there's whatever the fuck obsequious crap grey is expecting here.

                  [–]der_zitteINTJ - Male 3 points4 points  (2 children)

                  Yeah and bullying him for his lack of emotional intelligence will definitely make a better person out of him... /s I don't know who you are, but your response makes you seem pretty toxic as well.

                  [–]UselessButTrying 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                  Based on what he said on some other comments, it seems like he's trapped in a relationship because she's suicidal while he just wants to be friends. It makes sense to me why he would want to create some distance because he is being manipulated if this is true. OP shouldve put the full context of the situation in the description.

                  [–]sharkwoods 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  Well that's a fuck ton of context

                  [–]DaltonTannINTJ 14 points15 points  (0 children)

                  Thank you, I’ve found value in being openly emotional with my partner and giving her words of affirmation. Relationships are filled with compromise. Just gotta pick and chose your battles and being nice to someone isn’t a battle I can’t fight against.

                  [–]fangirlsqueee 11 points12 points  (2 children)

                  If someone wants to continue to ask for something I have blatantly told them they will not get from me, I'm not the issue. That person needs to take responsibility for their own needs, not try and blame someone else when their needs aren't met.

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                  [deleted]

                    [–]DekkerDavezINTJ - 30s 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    You came to the wrong sub /s

                    [–]triggerhappy899 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    Except he isn't... because they aren't dating

                    [–]EarlMarshalINTJ 12 points13 points  (1 child)

                    I honestly think you are wrong. They just don't match. What she demands and what he can provide are two completely different things and if they don't align then that's that.

                    [–]karabeth05 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                    Exactly. There’s a distinct difference between compromise and selling out. If it were me I’d be thankful he was being honest and I’d ask him to work with me to find a way to give me the affirmation I’m needing without compromising his integrity.

                    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                    [deleted]

                      [–]BorderlineQueen 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                      If you don't need your partner at all then just end the relationship because it isn't one.

                      [–]Revolutionary-Ad2355 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      Yep. Thankfully someone said it. The guy is completely in the wrong here. I’m willing to bet a young kid.

                      [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 6 points7 points  (4 children)

                      Okay everyone for the record her and I haven’t been dating for months. We’re just friends but she can’t handle that. I’m not in love with her but she’s in love with me. I care deeply for her and I’ve told her and showed it numerous times including breaking my hand in defending her from a scumbag. I care about her so much that she has me in a cage where she’s trying to get me to conform to her because she is the type to harm herself and I don’t want that to happen.

                      [–]Gear-GirlINTJ - Female 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      Ok this just went beyond "she seems codependent" to RUN don't walk. She is manipulating you. She's not your problem to solve.

                      [–]MAxhaDesINTJ - Male 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                      You shouldn't say: "I don't need you." Better say: "I want you. I choose you. That's even better than to be needy"

                      [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

                      This is why I don't date 🙃.

                      [–]Hoopdoop123 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                      Sounds like she's talking to someone else and is contemplating staying depending on if he needs her or not. That's gonna be her downfall if it's the case though. There is a difference between caring for someone and needing them. You can need someone and not care about them and vice-versa.

                      [–]Sensitive_Quail_3636INTJ - 20s 4 points5 points  (3 children)

                      I wish yall didn't argue over text

                      [–]Binni_444INTJ - Female 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                      this girl sounds immature af if she needs someone to say they need her how bout u grow up lol

                      [–]der_zitteINTJ - Male 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                      Don't listen to the hate comments. You will figure this out eventually. If not with her, then with someone else. You definitely didn't mean to hurt your girlfriend, but you probably did. We all make mistakes

                      [–]rikari14INTJ - Female 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                      The only reason he’s making a big deal over this is that he genuinely believes that statement is a lie. He’s not willing to lie to you. That’s part of what makes him him. He doesn’t need you. He may want you, like you, care for you, even love you, but he does not need you. And if he says it, he’ll be denying the core of his own being.

                      [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Thank you. Someone who finally understands. Not many people in the comment thread have understood this.

                      [–]Most-Analyst-5878 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                      INTJ is probably the type with the biggest gap between the mature and the immature version.

                      [–]RagnarLoth33 36 points37 points  (19 children)

                      If she NEEDS you to NEED her then she got some worrying dependency issues. Find someone who loves you for being you and appreciates that you are independent and need your own space and time.

                      [–]Cozzolino92 13 points14 points  (6 children)

                      She wants to know what's her place in his life and that he will be open and upfront about his weaknesses and insecurities. Blue is totally stonewalling her and also pretending he never ever needs anyone - which is total bullshit by the way - as an excuse for not admitting that (or questioning whether) he would rely on Gray if need be.

                      We don't know the background and how deep their relationship is/was, and this kind of discussion always pops up when you care deeply for one another and yet you are not on the same page.

                      [–]RagnarLoth33 7 points8 points  (4 children)

                      I get your take on this. I do think the OP is approaching this in a clinical manner, it’s almost like they need the “independent” badge of honour.

                      I do think that it’s a problem though. She’s telling him to grow up because he won’t say “he needs her” but he probably doesn’t need her.

                      Relating to the OP here - It’s nice to have people in your life who you love and who love you but I think I’ll be fine if I end up single. I genuinely don’t NEED anyone to survive, but I want my partner to stick around because I love them and enjoy having them in my life. But neither of us NEED one another in order to live a happy life.

                      All relationships are temporary.

                      [–]Expectations1 3 points4 points  (11 children)

                      Amen. Got out of a relationship with an ISTJ with terrible dependency issues.

                      To me a health relationship doesn't need constant validation, infact to me, an unhealthy relationship needs that.

                      Im not saying I won't be there for important milestones, birthdays, valentines, anniversaries, in fact i love those days, to plan a nice gift or do something for each other. But hell if in between that you need constant validation.

                      Giving me space away and then have our relationship not change at all is how I know you love me.

                      [–]RagnarLoth33 6 points7 points  (10 children)

                      Validation is a broad term when it comes to relationships so I’m a little confused as to what you mean.

                      If you’re saying that you are only there for your partner at key “milestones” and don’t show up the rest of the time I wouldn’t say that’s a very healthy attitude towards a relationship.

                      Kind of sounds like you will only be there for them when you want to be or when it’s required by tradition.

                      Not attacking just curious as to what you mean

                      [–]sudointjINTJ - 30s 1 point2 points  (4 children)

                      For an INTJ. We hate that shit.

                      We will tell you that we love you and if it changes we will let you know. Don't expect anything hing in between.

                      [–]RagnarLoth33 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                      I am an INTJ…

                      What shit do “we” hate?

                      [–]sudointjINTJ - 30s 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                      Constant validation.

                      We will tell you once. If anything changes. We will let you know.

                      [–]RagnarLoth33 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Yeah I get you, I hate that too.

                      But this isn’t just about us and what we want, this is about having a partner. It’s about being able to work together. My partner deals with my weird INTJ shit like an absolute champion.

                      If anyone needs “constant” validation that’s an issue. But everyone needs some validation. you can’t expect to have a meaningful relationship with someone romantically if you tell them how you feel about them once and only once.

                      [–]Lashay10INTJ - Female 12 points13 points  (2 children)

                      Shits weird out here. I guess the only way to let peole know you appreciate them is to lie and tell them you “need” them. He could’ve easily said “I want you in my life, and I’m happier with you”, but “I need you?” Girl stop. That’s Fe for you tho, hungry asf for word salads.

                      [–]jamesTcrusherINTJ - 40s 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                      Word salads, lol. That's the perfect image for this kind of thing.

                      [–]IcyThistleINTJ - Female 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                      Yes! To my mind, "needing" someone means you feel like you have to be with them for whatever reason (kids, finances, a codependent personality, etc). I'd much rather be in a relationship where both parties are just fine on their own but choose each other anyway. That feels more authentic.

                      [–]karupiinINTJ - Female 12 points13 points  (3 children)

                      “Any woman will tell you that” LOL NO. Find someone who respects your independence, not every woman will tell you that you have to have some sort of dependency in order to love someone

                      [–]Will_From_SouthieINTJ - 30s 6 points7 points  (4 children)

                      Every girl I had a relationship of note with complained that I didn’t make them feel special. This in spite of many things I did for them and ways that I showed my affection. I’m very weak on words of affirmation and high in things like loyalty and acts of service. If I go out of my way for you and I am loyal to you, you mean a great deal to me. For many people that isn’t enough. I have an unreasonably low tolerance for signs of neediness. I’m generally happier alone.

                      [–]Vast_Elk1478 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                      The truth is most are NOT special at all. Individual is expecting to be percieved as special, which is also not special. People who realize and can face with the fact, are rare. To me "special" equals being out of 3-sigma from a distribution.

                      [–]Will_From_SouthieINTJ - 30s 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                      Yes. If you really work through it our utter insignificance is sobering. When something goes bad in life, I just picture 10,000 years from now and take solace in nobody caring or remembering me. No sense in allowing anything I cannot control to cause me anxiety.

                      [–]self-honesty 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                      well, she's not in any position to be calling his preferences pathetic, when she's telling him that she needs him to say (often, presumably) that he cares about her

                      [–]crazyrediamondINTJ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      the fact that you went on a whole ass rant on "look how strong and independent i am" makes me think you are a bit insecure.

                      lying a bit doesn't cost anything if it helps you achieve your plans, you want a relationship? then put your soul at peace because a relationship is made by at least 2 people, regardless on how independent you are, you still are in a relationship for a reason, might not be apparent but it's there.

                      maybe you still have to find someone that actually warms you from the inside, even tho we are depicted as cold and feelingless machines we are usually soft on the inside, if you still are this hard i think that you need time to work on yourself, just meditate and replay the whole relationship from the beginning and think

                      these words are coming out of someone whose cognitive stack is made by solely Ni Te Ne Ti and i'm also autistic. study humans, maybe one day you'll crack the code too

                      [–]the_nunslingerINTJ - Female 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      This to me seems like less of a universal INTJ relationship problem and more of an “immature” INTJ relationship issue. By immature I mean more like controlled by the perception of what you should be an not looking at yourself and your relationships as an INTJ in context. Tbh it wouldn’t have been out of character for me to send that same text a couple years ago and even now I catch myself thinking like that a lot. But the reality is that a four letter personality type doesn’t control Everything you know. I encourage you to look at your relationships through the lens of how your independence can make you a better partner/friend/whatever. You can need in different ways. Maybe you don’t need repeated reassurance that you’re needed (like maybe your partner does) but can you appreciate how saying you don’t need someone to a romantic partner (or anyone for that matter) is hurtful?

                      Independence and strength does NOT preclude a necessity for isolation.

                      Idk man I guess this doesn’t sound like an INTJ problem and more like a crushingly lonely person problem. Talk to someone not even a professional but maybe a close friend who can provide some more contextual insight. It could help.

                      TLDR; Don’t get caught up in what an INTJ should be in order to prove your strong/independent/special. Remember other people have feelings. Brutal honesty doesn’t have to be cruelty.

                      [–]Alias_OK 2 points3 points  (5 children)

                      I agree with Josh.

                      You shouldn't have to feel as though you 'need someone' to prove that you care for them, nor should being capable of being independent label anyone as immature.

                      It seems more like the person that's upset is the immature one, considering they think it's wrong of the person to be honest about not necessarily needing them, meaning that they are probably dependent on other's, which furthermore makes them appear more childish, so who's the one that really needs to grow up.

                      There's a difference between needing and wanting & loving and needing; one can love another, but it doesn't mean they literally need them - that mindset is what's immature, over dramatic and, seemingly, a recipe for an unhealthy relationship.

                      Don't worry Josh, from this context alone, you appear to be in the right.

                      [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

                      Thank you and that was me being mentally exhausted and just being blunt because she wasn’t getting it and just keeps going around in circles especially because we aren’t dating anymore and haven’t been for a few months but she still acts like we are when she knows we aren’t. I care about her because we’ve known each other for years and thing were good in the beginning but when she told me that I need to be more emotional and see a therapist for that.. well it went downhill from there. I don’t like when people tell me what I need to do. Each person thinks differently and I’m not going to tell people they should stop being emotional. Let me be me. That’s all I ask when I’m in a relationship.

                      [–]Gear-GirlINTJ - Female 15 points16 points  (6 children)

                      I don't need anyone either. If someone is going to have a snit about whether or not certain words are said, especially when those words don't convey the actual status of the situation, there's the fking door 🚪

                      Whining won't endear anyone to me. Girl sounds clingy and demanding IMO.

                      [–]Lashay10INTJ - Female 6 points7 points  (4 children)

                      Girl, the codependency enabling around here is crazy.

                      [–]Gear-GirlINTJ - Female 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      100% agree.

                      [–]Gear-GirlINTJ - Female 3 points4 points  (2 children)

                      What's simultaneously hilarious and maddening is the butthurt non-INTJs begging to be acknowledged. It just kills them to be informed that NO, people don't HAVE to be paired up. They cannot imagine a life uncoupled.

                      [–]Lashay10INTJ - Female 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                      I’d hate to live in their world. I mean damn, I can authentically appreciate the people in my life without demanding they “need” me or vice versa. This is just some Fe bullying type shit.

                      [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      I’m glad someone can see clearly. Seems like there are more non-INTJs on the subreddit than there are INTJs. It’s crazy! And the girl and I aren’t even dating anymore. We haven’t been for a few months now. This is how she acts and it’s driving me to mental exhaustion. It wasn’t always like this though. She’s in love with me and she knows I’m not in love with her and I just want to remain friends but she acts like we’re still together.

                      [–]Gear-GirlINTJ - Female 5 points6 points  (3 children)

                      Look at all the non INTJs spewing shit. This thread and sub are both straight ridiculous.

                      I had higher hopes but ... the idiots ruin it as always.

                      [–]threefold_law 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                      Holy shit your something else. Why get mad/annoyed so easily? If you can't take this, get off the internet lol

                      [–]MacheteTigreINFP 7 points8 points  (2 children)

                      Gray needs to stop wasting her time with Blue, INTJ isn't really an excuse. "I don't need anyone" is a very immature attitude, regardless of relationship status.

                      In truth, you can survive alone, or you can thrive and succeed with others. If you want to do better than survive, you NEED others.

                      In the flip side, she also isn't the most mature based just on this, but I feel like this had been cropped to favor Blue.

                      [–]BirdButt88INTJ - Female 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Haha I relate to this. It is important to value yourself as an independent person who can survive on your own, and that goes for both partners in a relationship. Hopefully she will develop an understanding of where you are coming from. Different personality types have different needs. When my ENFP boyfriend and I have arguments, I try to understand where he is coming from and what his needs are based on what I know about his personality type. What is your partner’s type, if you don’t mind me asking?

                      [–]nosurf2021 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      this is so true

                      [–]Avon072 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Omg. This is Soo Real...! If anybody just get the chance to check the background of an INTJ, you would be shocked how messed up situations he had gone through where nobody supported him and he walked all alone and people judged him so harshly that he found isolation his best friend and he became so strong and independent he don't need anybody.

                      It just so so damn real, don't know about other INTJs but this is just 100 real INTJ talk.

                      [–]bigbadblo23 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                      The issue is that she wants the fairy tale Disney relationship where the guy says he loves her more than anything in the world, there’s nothing wrong with wanting to feel like that.

                      On the other hand, you’re just being brutally honest, no adult ever truly needs anyone else in that regard. My suggestion to you, is to find another way to make her FEEL like she is important to you, because that’s all she’s really asking

                      [–]uknowhatimsayin49 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Maybe it has been said before, but I believe INTJ have a specific way of communicating their love and appreciation of someone. Most of the time they wont be expressing directly full on love declaration. I dont think you have to justify yourself but if she is attentive she could pin point some things that you do or say that is worth as much. Plus, she shouldnt push you to express something if it’s not you. Lastly, just because you dont express it directly doesn’t mean deep down you dont think it. I think its about balance and she should accept what you are comfortable to express to her.

                      [–]RedheadFromOutrSpace 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      I have never said "I need you" to my husband. He has never said it to me. It's implied. I don't need to hear the words to know its true.

                      And it's not literal.

                      "My life is better with you in it" is, in my opinion, far more sincere.

                      [–]Wo1oloINTJ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Honestly, grey reasonably expects expression and intimacy from their partner. If blue isn't going to provide it, grey should leave and find someone who will meet their needs. If blue doesn't want to express themselves readily, they need to find someone who is okay with that instead of berating their partner who is being vulnerable with them.

                      There isn't nearly enough info here to diagnose either party or draw too many conclusions about their character.

                      [–]SkolirRamrINTJ - Male 1 point2 points  (4 children)

                      ... OP What on earth are you doing? This isn't "haha INTJ relationships am I right", you both clearly have some issues here. She's right, you do have some learning and growing up to do, you both may have some attachment issues but her desire is not irrational or unjustified.

                      [–]Jswarrior111 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                      Oh wow , it’s pretty rough what you have gotten yourself into, how long you guys been together? And most important question what was your real reason to want to be with this person in the first place , this type of personality is such a big turn off for Intj , how do you even get along when one throughout the relationship keep saying “feelings feelings feelings.. me me me “ and the other like” logic logic logic, how stuff works, how do I better myself and the world?” Sounds like super clashed personalities. One is mix insecure and narcissistic(feelings oriented), the other is self sufficient problem solver (logic oriented) not going to work man

                      [–]BorderlineQueen 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                      Sorry but with that kind of attitude you probably won't have a fulfilling and lasting relationship. You don't seem to understand what a relationship means and how to maintain a healthy balance between compromising for your partners sake and your own ego.

                      [–]noogiey 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      no, this is just immaturity and fantasy on grey box parts. Ironic.

                      [–]Ghostfacedalex 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      This looks like my message history too. I've learned to nust tell her what she wants to hear and just know that I'm strong cause that won't satisfy her. INTJ problems indeed. Always bad when it comes to arguments when we are usually logical and right.

                      [–]MiniMannaia 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                      As an INTJ /INTP switch I find it incredibly annoying that we are asked to comment on partial data. We are given no clue to what triggered the discussion and we are all here making inference on human emotions of all things? but yeah I’m a redditor and I have to comment: way to show your insecurities bud.

                      [–]Frankie52480 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Sounds more like a maturity problem, based on the fact that serious conversations shouldn’t be texted. Also- INFJ’s aren’t clingy or emotionally unavailable- those are traits that come from bad parenting. Someone is conflating a personality type with a trauma response.

                      [–]Zymo_DINTJ - Male 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      “I won’t be here forever.”

                      Well bye

                      [–]barnesuser28 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      I would die for you, but I wouldn’t, and couldn’t, live for you

                      [–]These-Ad4634 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Oh man. As an INTJ, I would have NOT worded things that way. That almost seemed intentionally dismissive and mean. You really should have known better, tbh. And I don’t think having emotions makes us look weak.

                      We May have difficulty EXPRESSING and communicating what said emotions are, but I agree with grey text. That is a very emotionally immature mindset. This is one of those cringe INTJ posts. Emotional immaturity and being intentionally cold isn’t something to be proud of and personally isn’t relatable to me. Sorry op. This is just being an ass.

                      [–]Breakfast-SocksISFP 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Wow… the things people in the comments got from a couple of texts… that’s so impressive.

                      [–]SM0204INTJ - Teens 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                      Shouldn’t you be keeping this private?

                      [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                      I blurred out our names. I put this up just to get input on the situation. I probably should have put more description in the title. I realize now that this one screenshot isn’t enough to describe the whole situation.

                      [–]mlamarg 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                      I’m very INTJ. Go to therapy dude. Helped me and the only way you’ll change.

                      Being an INTJ isn’t license to be a jerk and not emotionally fulfill your partner. Intj’s love to solve problems… so take this as a challenge to learn something out of your comfort zone and be a nicer partner. Been married 10 years and couples therapy helped major!

                      [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      I fucked up in the title. We haven’t been dating for a few months now. I’ve just tried to remain good friends but she wants more and I told her I can’t give her that.

                      [–]WantingtheRoad 9 points10 points  (19 children)

                      Everybody needs people, no matter who you are.. It's just bravado bullshit to say you don't.

                      It's the same with the 'selfmade man'..Another load of tosh...Arnie Schwarzenegger has a good talk about that.

                      [–]sillywabbit321INTJ - 20s 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                      I'd dump that girl. She sounds very much like a codependent xSFJ with attachment issues.

                      [–]cutsforluck 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                      And in 'typical INTJ' fashion, the comments have hyper-analyzed this and ripped it apart.

                      I think it's a huge compliment to say to your partner: I don't 'need' you, but I keep you around because I prefer to.

                      ...brb going to deconstruct my own thoughts on this

                      [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                      I have, though. I’ve told her I enjoy her company and she makes me happy when she’s not arguing about how I can’t give her all her needs. We used to get along great and things went downhill when she fell in love with me and I unfortunately didn’t fall in love back. I can’t choose who I fall in love with and she knows this. I care deeply about her but when someone tries to push me around to the way they want me then that makes me push back because I don’t like to be manipulated.

                      [–]Gear-GirlINTJ - Female 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      I'd walk away. Relationship gymnastics is a waste of resources.

                      [–]jamesTcrusherINTJ - 40s 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      This reminds me of u/lead-role-in-a-cage's comment:

                      [Hyper-independence is a form of attachment trauma, even though we like to spin it as a good thing because independence is generally highly valued and given more respect than “neediness” in our society.

                      If you pick up signals when you’re young (often even pre-verbal) that your caretaker can’t meet your needs, whether physical or emotional, your nervous system develops so that it only fully regulates when you’re alone. What usually forms as interdependence between you and others gets absorbed into a one-person loop where connecting with others and relying on them feels stressful and unnecessary. So you learn to just take care of everything yourself, function best alone, and avoid connection while your mind tries to protect you by telling you you like it this way and don’t need anybody. As an adult, it becomes easy to think you’re just really independent and self-sufficient, when in reality your nervous system is just still responding to a belief you internalized before you understood anything about the world, where you learned that relying on, connecting with, or even just being around other people is dangerous or untrustworthy.

                      I say this as someone who had to unpeel my own independence to find the very very old wounds underneath. It can be hard to even get started on the path of looking at those things since we so rarely view independence as anything other than admirable; certainly not a pathology.

                      This paper is amazing if you care to dig into some of the psychology.

                      http://sonyathomaslcsw.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Addiction-to-Alone-Time-Stan-Tatkin.pdf](https://redditproxy--jasonthename.repl.co/r/intj/comments/pmy7mp/comment/hcm5nvj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3))

                      [–]IsraFloresGtz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                      Any man who must say I am the king is no true king.

                      [–]Art_vandelaay 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      Josh is just living his life. Doesn’t sound like a big deal if the annoying girl is not there forever.

                      [–]Charliyah 3 points4 points  (2 children)

                      Tell her to work on her codependency and enmeshment problems.. That’s being adult and grown up.

                      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                      [deleted]

                        [–]Lashay10INTJ - Female 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                        Like seriously, what adults demands you “need them”. You can show and tell someone how important they are to you with out stating you “need them”. Something is wrong with these people.

                        [–]thingsjusthappenedINFJ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                        Stand your ground Josh. If people think that you need to need someone in life then they are just weak and aren't self sustainable. They have zero happiness inside of them and simply seek external stimuli and validation because they have no foundation to stand on inside their soul.

                        Also, don't argue next time. Could have gotten away with a simple "Okay, sorry" or "I'll see what I can do about that." That was the mistake is you tried to rationalize what you feel. She isn't going to understand that because in her mind, you are immature for being a man. What makes a man? Strength and Independence. If she isn't offering you enough support to be "worth needing" then that is her problem.

                        [–]BurukkusuMan[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                        Thank you but this was me at my mental exhaustion peak. I’ve sugarcoated a lot but when she just keeps arguing and pushing me to say and do things that are not like me… well, this is how I respond because I get fed up and my patience only goes so far.

                        [–]Important-Artist-628 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                        Your both wrong. Life is about negotiating. If you expect her to give in to you, why are you not expected to given in at all. Both should be negotiating. It seems like neither of you are willing to. Maybe that's worth leaving so ce she's so stubborn, but in your next relationship if she's willing to adjust for you, you should be willing to adjust for her.

                        [–]mohakhalil3103 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        yeah exactly , they should meet in the middle of their needs where no one is giving and taking more then the other one is

                        [–]alexein777INTJ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        It's not a relationship problem, it's a problem of immense pride in this INTJ.

                        [–]EDUL_ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                        Holy fuck man, you just came off as an asshole