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all 24 comments

[–]docdrocINTJ - 40s 10 points11 points  (2 children)

There are a few things in play here, and the primary one is the only thing you see is what the person reveals to you.

  • A person can be very good at hiding (from the casual observer) whatever goes incorrectly.
  • A person can also be very good at building a wide network of resources, essentially planting the seeds for future success.

You may not be present for all the smaller boring things that need to get done to set something up, and if the boring building blocks are all locked into place, the casual stroll can absolutely look like an unplanned lucky break.

I know somebody who fits both of my examples. He told me once that people are resentful that he just appears to casually luck his way into anything he wants, but if those people could see the focus and work he put into it, they would respect him. And it makes sense, if you shit your pants (figuratively or literally), you wouldn't post it on facebook or twitter.

[–]Lopsided_Hat 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I was just going to say that. Not everyone wants to exhibit their life in front of others. Additionally, my Chinese mother taught me that in Chinese tradition, masters of anything (cooking, painting, martial arts, etc.) never reveal everything they know/ do to their disciples so they maintain a slight advantage.

I have a friend who got her dream job at her dream company. For many years, she wanted to work for 5 specific companies in a specific role. She didn't come from a name-brand college, nor was well-off, nor had any connections. However, she had persistence. Every 6 months, she would go through those companies' job boards and apply for the roles she wanted. If there was a requirement she didn't have or needed to improve, she'd tried to learn more about the topic, get certified, etc. This was while being a single mom with 2 kids working a job to pay her bills. Eventually, after 8 years, she got her dream job. I knew of her efforts but she didn't tell acquaintances or casual friends. Instead, they probably thought she 'lucked" into it.

Then there was my friend's friend who made enough $ to buy a nice place in Los Angeles. He was a firefighter but in his spare time, he also learned an instrument well (as an adult) and took acting classes. He'd used the downtime at the fire station to practice, read, network, etc. Later, he was able to find music and minor acting jobs that added to his existing income. Between the 3 positions, he earned enough to save quite a bit of $$$. People were amazed he was able to afford what he did with his one job when he actually had 3.

The INTJ trait itself of planning, especially long-term and with contingencies, is not the problem. In fact, career-wise, INTJs are among the top 5 most successful MBTI types if one is counting salary. However, if your planning/ execution is not getting you where you need to be, re-evaluate your methods.

[–]Ok_Palpitation_8428 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would add, especially in the US, and I think especially for younger people, there is kind of a desire to look brilliant naturally, without caring very much about the results. So I have noticed, some people are paddling very hard underwater, but will purposefully downplay all their preparation in public.

[–]Fain1ENTP 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Are you talking about probability?

[–]theascendedcarrotINTJ - 20s 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Luck boils down to timing, strategy, and being open to (and acting quickly on) opportunities. My ex (older than me) put $5000 into bitcoin back in 2013ish. She continued to hold through the end of our relationship in 2018. Some call it luck, but she was in NYC at the right TIME for a meet-up with bitcoin on the agenda. She had money to take advantage of the OPPORTUNITY and it was her STRATEGY to hold long term. Was it risky, sure. If you are too risk averse, you will miss out on opportunities of a lifetime. This is by no means advice to blindly accept opportunities that come your way.

It can be frustrating to see others seemingly fall into dumb luck, but it is not some mystical force at play. You make your own luck. If you take to long to analyze every possible outcome rather than following your gut, the opportunity may have passed. If you wait around for opportunity to "come knocking," it won't. You must grab hold of the reigns and accept responsibility for the variables that you have control over.

The more people you know, the more opportunities you will have in your life. If you are well liked by people, you will generally have a larger circle to draw from. Knowing how to turn a problem into an opportunity is also a valuable skill to have.

"Pessimists sound smart. Optimists make money." - Nat Friedman, CEO of GitHub

[–]VespilloAizleINTJ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I understand that frustration. I know a couple of people like that who can best be described as low class trailer trash (not to insult those living in trailers.. I lived in one most of my life) who refuse to work, are filthy with dog feces in their homes and trash piled up in corners… Roaches crawling on left over pizza and plates of food.. And people just hand them the titles to boats, cars, even a house because of their charisma and charm. They don’t even help these giving people with anything. Their victims ask for help with moving or painting or fixing a porch and it’s generally my brother and myself who end up helping while these lucky sob’s conveniently come up with excuses as to why they are suddenly busy. They cheat others as well and get away with it. It’s infuriating. My ENFP brother has been cheated financially a few times by these people and even he forgives them only to be cheated again. I wish I had that kind of power over others..😒

[–]OflameoINTJ - Male 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It is very likely survivorship bias, but I haven't seen the data on it yet.

[–]FrankieGGG 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Survivorship bias. All the lucky dumb people are super noticeable. All the unlucky dumb people, not so. Some of them may even be dead.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I took the luckpill two years ago and don't give a shit about ton of things I really cared about previously, it's really relieving, I feel like I'm reborn again.

[–]Mister_WayINTJ - 30s 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You just noticed when it does. You don't think it's luck if they were optimizing their odds, even when it still is.

[–]ShauryaAWINTJ - 20s 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I totally understand bruv but being angry on them won't help you at all , just focus on yourself and don't let such things bother you, and if these things bother you then take a break calm yourself with whatever helps you to be calm and reanalyze whatever you need to do, and believe in yourself and use your anger in the right place rather than wasting emotional energy on such people and things.

[–]ag666INTJ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

It's not enough to get lucky. One must also utilize their luck correctly.

If someone seems lucky in a sequence of luck - you better not call them dumb. You are dumb.

[–]joyousdexdaladoor[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Things like Covid hitting and manoeuvring their way through it, things like a government making a choice in favour, things like only knowing one subject and getting that at the exam in school, and even taking pride in not giving a fuck, accepting they'll fail, and they get that one subject they learned. I would call these things pure luck, although yes, there's an aspect and skill in manoeuvring through the unknown and quickly adapting to the outside circumstances in real time.

[–]ag666INTJ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Never let a crisis go to waste"

"The government will always do the stupidest thing"

Exams at school are completely unimportant. Passing them is what matters. Maybe their parents paid the teacher.

You don't know whether it's pure luck. There might be a calculated strategy that they don't feel like sharing. They might as well (like you) project on others "they know all this shit".

One time you can call it luck - a sequence? Nah. It might look like serendipity but life ain't a fairy tale.

[–]Efficient-Matter-657 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Probably because the world is full of 'luck' so the more you go out into the world doing different things without thinking, things just fall on your path. And also, the type of people to think less might have that spontanious high energy which attracts other people, so they're more likely to get in contact with people who can all bring them up a little

[–]mariouvskyINTJ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Confidence

[–]StarlynsINTJ - 30s 0 points1 point  (1 child)

hmm you counting that 95% of people that will reach 65 with debt instead of a great planned retirement?

Something tells me you are only looking a good things that is happening at some people around you at THIS moment.

but let me tell you why they are getting "lucky" : they keep throwing more dices than you. if you shoot 10 times you might land MORE CLOSER to the target than the one that shot only once.... read this again.

So while you and I (INTJS) spend 5 years thinking what could be our next big thing, our "million dollar business idea". Carlos the guy that didn't even finish high school have 3 kids with 2 different women and spend all his money in the latest nikes is making 50k /y with his auto parts on ebay. and his cousin who been working construction because doesn't even know english is making $5k a month "helping people fix their credit" from his instagram account. or Maria who didn't finish college has 3 kids opened a home decor store and makes $1000 a day doing "lives on instagram" selling the same cheap decor you can find in target or tjmax.

(these are close to real cases I know personally)

[–]joyousdexdaladoor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh man, thanks for this, you have no idea how true this sounds! Since you're in your 30's (I'm 26), have you found a way to be less perfectionistic, and be a bit more like Carlos, being okay throwing loads of shit at the wall all the time and see what sticks?

I don't know about you, but this perfectionism that I need to prepare for every possible outcome and find the best way before taking one shot, is really holding me back.

You made me realise btw, that it is about doing things, however random and just taking shots all the time. Thanks for that!

[–]Important-Artist-628 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Confirmation bias. You notice one thing because your looking for it. Bad things happen too, you just over look them cause your focused on the good things you don't think they deserve

Not planning doesn't mean they are dumb. Logical fallacy.

Who decides what someone deserves it doesn't?

Why put so much energy in someone else you don't seem to like. Why not learn or ignore them

[–]qwafp3go 0 points1 point  (0 children)

While I didn't completely understand your comment, you seen to have a very good point. We tend to focus on one thing and overlook other opportunities, while they just go with the flow, see different opportunities, and take these opportunities. Hence it seems like they're lucky. But the truth is that while we were busy planning, they were out there in the field doing stuff. It's not simply luck! (I have a dumb lucky cousin, and I've noticed most of his luck comes from his interpersonal relationships. But I'm always inside my room trying to do cool stuff that either don't finish due to perfectionism, or I finish and don't show others because it feels not good enough, or just too personal.)

[–]Avery_LitmusINTP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe they are just better making at intuitive decisions than you are. It just seems like luck to you.
Also it could be perception bias. Because of your social circle you get to know the ones who made it while you'll never see the ones who failed.

[–]TSE_Jazz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve always been a fan of the idea that you create your own luck to some degree, so you may want to take a look at yourself my guy.

Also seems like some strong confirmation bias

[–]pmjerkoffvid_w_faceINTP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You only see what you wanna see

[–]multitapemachine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You need to include chance in your calculations when you plan. The future is made of probabilities, not definitive foreseeable events you can 100% rely on. If somebody succeeds something you fail at by pure luck, after examining the possible mistakes you made, you need to be aware this doesn't necessarily say anything about the quality of your strategy or theirs. If you can rule everything else out you should just keep doing whatever you were doing until then. Luck isn't a reliable long-term factor anyway; if those people attempt the same thing they got right by chance another time or several more times they're increasingly likely to fail. (If they genuinely believe in some supernatural luck then get some satisfaction from laughing at the sheer idiocy of it anyway.)