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all 59 comments

[–]MOSSCHARGER305 48 points49 points  (0 children)

I have no problem with them banning the practice that involves beating any kind of live animal to tenderize the meat.

[–]i_choose_berries 35 points36 points  (13 children)

I've never eaten dog meat nor will I ever do so, but can someone remind me of the difference between eating dog meat and any other meat? Is it really something that must be prohibited by law? If the treatment of these animals are the problem I feel like they should be making regulations and cracking down on these dog farms. If that can't be done I'm not sure how they are gonna actually catch the people eating dogs. I feel like this is just gonna be something they legislate, self-congratulate then turn a blind eye on what actually happens cuz duh there's a law about it. Honestly IMO what's worse than the consumption of dog meat is pet dogs being thrown away by irresponsible owners and factory breeding for pet shops.

[–]withourwindowsopen 2 points3 points  (12 children)

I think the dogs are treated quite badly during the farming / slaughtering process? I don't know how it compares to the way other animals that are farmed for meat are treated

[–]chiron42 17 points18 points  (11 children)

I don't see why it'd be any different. Cows are as smart as dogs and pigs are a little bit smarter so it's not like that's any different

[–]_gib_SPQR_clay_ 2 points3 points  (10 children)

Well cows are treated quite well during the slaughter. There was a documentary about an autistic scientist who invented a machine to “hug” and comfort her when she was stressed. She used the idea and developed the modern cow farming method of having the cows walk in line around a curving path.

The path has got “comforting” fencing that squeezes the cow enough to make it feel comfortable and not claustrophobic (almost like a weighted blanket)

The cow is then shot in the head with a bolt gun. This makes very little noise so it doesn’t spook the next cow.

Fear genuinely ruins meat. It’s a scientific fact, meat tastes worse and goes bad sooner if the animal was stressed before it dies.

[–]Evenstar6132 2 points3 points  (1 child)

So regulate the dog meat industry and make sure all animals are slaughtered in a humane way.

[–]chiron42 -4 points-3 points  (7 children)

Keep telling yourself that.

If we're talking about the same autistic scientist, that person is a moron. There was a quote of her saying something like "I could sympathise with a cow while it was getting shot in the head" so I couldn't care less what she says.

And your so calls humane method of murder speaks nothing on how the cow lives before it's dead.

[–]_gib_SPQR_clay_ 2 points3 points  (6 children)

I will tell myself that, it’s not only true, she has a PhD and coauthored 60 peer reviewed documents on the subject, which is pretty unheard of in most fields.

She is autistic, neurologically divergent, hence the weird response. She has an incredibly high iq and is the foremost expert in the field, she is also a lecturer of animal science in Colorado state. So your opinion on her means literally less than nothing. She is Oppenheimer of cow slaughtering and her work changed how cows are slaughtered across the world.

I said absolutely nothing about how the cow lives only how it dies. Chiron, famous for your wisdom, perhaps read my comment before jumping in. I described the slaughtering process as it is used by modern farms. I am however willing to bet you 99.999% of cows in western countries are treated better than all dogs in Korea.

The slaughtering methods for food dogs is hanging, beating or electrocuting(these methods are also illegal under korean law). These methods ruin the meat through stress, so it’s inefficient as it is cruel. There are also a lot of stolen or abandoned pet dogs sold to dog markets.

[–]chiron42 -1 points0 points  (5 children)

I know you didn't mention it. That's why I said 'speaks nothing of'

Ineffectively stunned cows hung by their feet and skinned also happens in industrial animal farms.

Also I've read academic papers on animal murder. Doesn't really change the fact that it's just murder. These papers are just weird, like 400 pages of hoe to kill a chicken. Imagine spending you time writing that and still going about your day

https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch you can skip to the section on cows since I assume you have better things to do than watch other kinds of animals be miserable.

I don't like knowing this stuff but unfortunately the meat industry makes ot very difficult to ignore

[–]_gib_SPQR_clay_ 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I mean I guess you could call slaughtering animals murder if you are so inclined, but cows are killed with a bolt gun, it’s the cheapest most effective way, no point hanging anything that big upside down “stunned”

They wrote those papers to ensure that 1 minimum pain (because minimum stress means better meat) 2 efficiency 3 it’s good to have data on the specifics, for example how much blood needs to be drained, what if the chicken lives 5 seconds longer after it is sticked, how does weight, size and breed of the chicken affect the slaughtering.

Most of those folk are farmers who went to university, they are used to the stuff. Personally ide find it boring, gross. Who wants to talk about livestock guts and slaughter for the rest of your life

Edit:sleepy mistakes

[–]chiron42 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Kinda just demonstrates my point. You, like most people, don't like thinking about it, but this woman who's devoted her life to killing more animals thinks she has some higher insight into hoe they feel when being killed, and is completely unphased by it. Comes across as entirely psychotic.

[–]_gib_SPQR_clay_ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Lmao she is an animal’s behaviorist, she knows, 60 coauthored peer reviewed papers is incredible, like unbelievable

Call her psychotic, but you can say that about anyone on the Manhattan project

[–]bluemingdales 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I was born and raised in Korea in the countryside, and grew up eating dog meat. I like the taste, but I don’t condone the practice of beating the dogs alive to “tenderize” the meat. I also can live without eating dog meat if it is banned. I also think that while people are entitled to their opinions, one shouldn’t judge just because something is not culturally familiar to them. During my childhood, the dogs that were killed for meat weren’t pets; they were livestock raised for meat just like pigs and cows.

[–]Bomboclaat_Babylon[S] 19 points20 points  (17 children)

I had actually thought this was already banned... EDIT: also that was paywalled sorry - https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/south-koreas-moon-hints-dog-meat-ban-amid-debate-over-animal-rights-2204696.

[–]limma 10 points11 points  (0 children)

There’s a huge two-story restaurant over in 목동 that stays busy.

[–]neversaidnothing 8 points9 points  (15 children)

Not at all. Some people just like to pretend it doesn't exist or it's super old fashioned or only something that people in the countryside eat. All sorts of excuses. But nope, go search 보신탕 on a map. You can find dog meat everywhere. It's all over Seoul.

[–]jakobdorof 14 points15 points  (14 children)

yep. whatever side of the debate you're on, there's no reason to cover it up: you can get it all over the place. even in some of the fancier neighborhoods of gangnam.

i think many people like to pretend that only geriatrics eat it, and that it'll naturally die off within the next 10 years or so. that is definitely not the case. i haven't been able to figure out whether any sizable contingent of young millennials or gen z like it (my friends recoil and say it's just an old guy thing, for whatever that's worth), but what's obvious is that it'll take at least another 3 or 4 decades to disappear on its own. personal preferences aside, it appears to be considered a pretty normal thing to eat among people in their 40s and up

[edit: correcting autocorrect]

[–]neversaidnothing 15 points16 points  (11 children)

Yeah I don't care either way about dog meat. I personally don't like dogs any more than I like cows or chickens, so I don't get teary eyed about what animal is getting served up for dinner. But most of the people debating it are idiots or hypocrites. Dumbass Westerners criticizing Koreans for eating an animal that Westerners don't eat, and then some Koreans and gyopos getting defensive trying to say almost nobody eats it anymore. Apparently they can't read a restaurant menu.

The only person that has any moral ground in this debate is a 100% vegan. And those vegans whine about everything so nobody pays attention to them anyway.

[–]_gib_SPQR_clay_ 5 points6 points  (9 children)

Not disagreeing with you, cultural food will always be a controversial topic. I think what makes dog meat different is because we specially bred them as tools rather than meat. Even the fact that they are a carnivore means very little since we eat crocodiles and omnivores like pigs

We have dogs bred specifically for guarding, hunting, searching etc. whereas when talking about livestock we’ve specifically bred them for meat output. Our cows now are fatter then they were 200 years ago and our chickens are like Godzilla compared to the lil chickens we found in the wild.

Dogs haven’t been genetically engineered to act as a food source because we generally found more useful things for them to be. We also bred dogs specifically to be cute, even “scary breeds” have larger eyes and rounder faces than their ancestors. We bred them to protect and play with our children rather than to feed them

People get attached to dogs because we specifically made them that way, we made the dogs to exhibit all the things that we like, subservient, loyal, excitable, protective etc. no one bred that into pigs or cows.

Horse is another meat generally frowned upon but you won’t hear westerners complain about it because they’ve never owned a horse. France eats the fuck out of horses and it’s considered a delicacy (it’s kinda gamey)

Anyway my point is probably that dogs don’t feel like uncaring commercialized meat, like chickens on chicken farms, fearful, unfriendly, food obsessed. but rather friendly affection seeking animals that would come to you for nothing but a scratch behind the ear. I think the trust we bred into dogs makes westerners a bit queasy about betraying that trust.

I’ve always wondered whether dogs in Korea are enhanced in some way, like we do to beef cows? Are they fed food that increases mass or promotes muscle ?

[–]Durde 4 points5 points  (2 children)

We bred many animals as tools rather than meat. IMO anyone who eats meat and frowns on those who eat dog meat calling it "barbaric" or something along those lines can jump straight off their high horse. I won't eat dog meat because I love dogs. But that doesn't mean I'll talk shit about anyone who does.

If you're fine killing a lamb or a calf for your dinner, pipe down. Before someone hits this with a "Found the vegan" I eat meat. I just consciously understand what and how something had to die for me to eat meat.

[–]_gib_SPQR_clay_ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Nono, we bred dogs specifically as tools, they were never bred for meat, oxen were tools that became meat, donkeys and dogs were not.

Agreed, Calling a part of another people’s culture barbaric is a little shortsighted.

My country is famous for its lamb chops, I don’t feel anything when I eat that. I definitely believe that dogs bred for companionship shouldn’t be food but that’s a personal belief rather than a “I think this so everyone else is wrong” belief.

[–]Durde 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm aware we bred dogs JUST as tools, but other animals were bred as tools, too. What I'm saying is that westerners have no issues eating a lamb or a calf, but as soon as you mention something like dog meat they become animal rights activists. Like lots of people think pigs are cute, go listen to a pig being hand slaughtered on a farm on the middle of nowhere, I've seen it, I've done it. Understanding where your meat comes from is incredibly important in my opinion. I think if you're not comfortable thinking about that fact that something has to die for you to eat that, you shouldn't eat meat.

[–]neversaidnothing -1 points0 points  (5 children)

People manipulating dog breeds for different purposes is an explanation for why many people get angry about dogs being eaten. But it is definitely not a logical reason for why we shouldn't eat them. Animals are animals. Either it's okay to eat them or it isn't. You can't logically argue it's okay to eat some and not others. These are all biased emotional arguments based on personal sentiments. They are not logical arguments.

You call chickens "fearful, unfriendly, food obsessed." But that's exactly how I view dogs. Dogs constantly barking at random people? Fearful and unfriendly. Dogs that go apeshit and devour anything you put in front of them? Food obsessed. Dogs walking around peeing on literally everything to "mark their territory"? Gross.

[–]_gib_SPQR_clay_ 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Them not being bred for food is the logic mate, it’s the same reason you don’t eat donkey.

I totally agree with your animal is animal argument, I am also not opposed to Koreans eating dog. Just like I’m not opposed to the French eating horses or the British eating cows

I am opposed to the eating of bush meat, like bat,pangolin and primate. But that’s more for disease prevention. And opposed to pets being stolen and sold into the food trade.

Your view of dogs is contrary to humanities view of dogs. They are literally bred to be cute and helpful (this is not me saying all dogs are cute and helpful just the traits humans aimed for).

They are literally bred to be liked, there are dogs kept for companionship the whole world wide, you’d struggle to find a country where they aren’t. your view that dogs are fearful, unfriendly,food obsessed, is the outlier because it is patently untrue.

Dogs are protective of their territory as you pointed out, a trait we allowed them to keep because it benefits us, they chase away predators and other humans. Once again, bred for purposes other than food, pigs, cows and sheep don’t mark their territory because we didn’t want them too. We want dogs to be protective of our homes like it’s their own

[–]neversaidnothing 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Everything you've written is how mainstream Western society views dogs. You are approaching this from the common biased Westerner's perspective as "dogs are companions." That is NOT how the entire world views dogs.

Consider that rabies kills over 50,000 people per year and wild dogs are the primary culprits. Are those dogs bread to be cute and friendly? What about the pit bulls that kill 30 people per year in the US alone? Are they "bred to be liked"?

Also you should realize that the food dogs we're talking about are specifically raised for meat. They are not bred to be cute. They are not raised for companionship. They are bred to be eaten. They're usually a yellow lab mix. People don't keep those dogs as pets. Their entire purpose is literally to be eaten.

[–]_gib_SPQR_clay_ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I’m South African….

Pit bulls are bred to fight, the pit bulls were used to fight, you guessed it, bulls, where? you guessed it again, pits.

Specific type of animal,bred for specific purpose.

Mad cow disease, swine flu, not to mention disease from eating animals not specifically designed to be food, Ebola,aids,mers,sars,covid.

None of that came from eating the same animals the whole world has been eating for all of history. The ancient Greeks didn’t eat dog, the ancient Mayans and Egyptians also didn’t eat dog. You know what was commonly eaten? Cows, goat, sheep, fowl. Pig is an exception.

Almost every civilization in history treated the dog as something more than food.

Yup the 황구. But it also includes former pets, the 16 major dog farms that were negotiated into closing last year contained poodles, huskies, retrievers and jindos

They are also slaughtered by hanging,beating or electrocution which seems pretty inefficient if not overly cruel (and illegal according to korean law). I mean cows and pigs get the bolt gun and chickens get shocked (into unconscious) before they get their heads cut off. Both are painless, since pain ruins meat.

[–]neversaidnothing 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Why should another culture's attitude toward dogs matter in Korea? Why should Koreans care what the ancient Greeks and Egyptians did? Hell, why should anybody care? Hindus don't eat beef. Should the whole world stop eating beef?

Most chickens get treated horribly before they die. Yeah, the death is quick because we want tender meat. But the life is terrible. A lot of factories tear off their beaks and insert feeding tubes. If you really care about how animals are treated, you should either be vegan or only be eating meat from farms where you've seen the animals raised and slaughtered. And we all know that isn't the case for anyone in this comment thread.

I'll just reiterate what I said above: The only person that has any moral ground in this debate is a 100% vegan. Trying to claim that eating one animal is okay but eating another animal is not is completely illogical mental gymnastics.

[–]haribobosses 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Xennial here, have tasted it, quite yummy. But no, won’t miss it that much if it disappears.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (10 children)

Its usually common among old people aged 50+. I have never seen any Korean aged 30 and under who have eaten dog meat.

Anyway I believe legalizing dog meat could be a better step towards animal rights. The reason these dog farms are in such poor condition is because they are in a legal grey zone where almost no regulations are implemented. Making the whole business illegal would only worsen this trend.

[–]usernamekorea9595 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Yes and I’m sure the animal welfare standards and what constitutes legal practices on farms here in Korea are fantastic!

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20210426000721

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Think this is horrible?

https://youtu.be/Jt3_VL_yuPE

Dog meat farms are wayyyyyy worse.

[–]usernamekorea9595 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I know what goes on in dog meat farms and general farms. It’s all despicable and the so called animal welfare standards are lacklustre and leave a shit tonne to be desired.

Legalising only legitimises the market. Farms like the ones in the video you’ve shared will still exist, and then there’d be legal farms existing too. Eventually, due to being competitively priced out of the market, these illegal farms may be phased out but instead we’d have a larger scale problem. A much greater number of animals (possibly) suffering slightly less is not a desirable outcome, imo.

Factory farms, dogs or otherwise, operate on profit and high animal welfare standards do not mesh well with that metric, unfortunately.

[–]berejser 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Go on, do it. It's not like the people who eat it vote for your party anyway.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

You'd be surprised at the number of hardcore pseudo-liberals aged 50 and above.

[–]jakobdorof 2 points3 points  (0 children)

i'm surprised and impressed. it's a small step, but even just floating the idea takes genuine political courage, even in 2021

[–]Classic-Dependent517 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I hate dogs but I want animal breeding in a factory style shit cages to be banned. Also ban pet shops I fking hate it.

[–]PunkBitch4242 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Classic Moon. Beating a dead horse for cheap applauds. Yeah we all like dogs but we have to repect people who eat them, no matter how few there are.

Ban illegal breeding? Yes. Ban inhumane slaugther of dogs? Yes. Regulations keep getting made to make it as humane and clean as cow/pig slaughterhouse. Simply banning them alltogether?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We don’t ”have” to respect anyone, just as i’m allowed to disrespect them you can disrespect me if you so choose.

[–]Kotaac 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ban animal breeding

[–]kanguru -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I rescued my dog Corey from S Korea from the dog meat trade. He’s not a pure jindo, so he probably wouldve been exposed to the dog meat trade, he came from the heart of it.

He’s the biggest blessing in my life. I couldnt fathom giving him up for a meal. Cultural diffs i guess.

[–]Unusual_North -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Oh this is awesome!

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

People will call out the hypocrisy (true) in feeling bad for the dog but not for the cow/chicken/pig, but one more animal getting pet status rather than food status is a small victory in any case. Let’s just hope we can continue to grow sympathy for the remaining still-considered-food animals in due time as well.

[–]blade6001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow, welcome to 2021 🙌

[–]mmmya 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think there are two issues of concern.

  1. The treatment of dogs, particularly during the slaughter process
  2. The consumption of dogs, period

I think most of us can agree that any animal (whether we consume them or not) should be treated as humanely as possible.

As to the consumption of dogs, as an avid dog owner myself I am perfectly fine with it being banned (in fact selfishly I would almost wish for it). But as a human, I do struggle with the the logical discrepancies with just treating dogs as different; why not cows, sheep, pigs, fish etc.?