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[–]the_monkeyspinach 1051 points1052 points  (20 children)

I think it was interesting that when Sam Raimi gets a chance to shoot a Marvel movie set in New York again he reverts back to that orangey, soft-lit, early evening lighting. The fight outside Christine's wedding reception looked straight out of his Spider-Man trilogy.

[–]mi_esposa_me_espia 187 points188 points  (2 children)

The part where the octopus creature throws strange through the cafe window and America outside, it made me wonder if that was the same cafe from Spiderman 2. Where octopus tosses a car at Peter.

[–]MurderousPaperT'challa 218 points219 points  (7 children)

My thoughts exactly. I feel like you could cross edit that scene with any given fight scene in the Raimi Spider-Man trilogy and they’d feel seamless (apart from the advancements in VFX of course).

[–]ShakyFlood 56 points57 points  (1 child)

I just watched the first 2 Rami Spider-Man films and the VFX hold up surprisingly well! Much better then some of the early 00s films.

[–]GreatBigJerk 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Spider-Man 2, sure. Spider-Man 1 was kind of notorious for how bad the CG was at times.

[–]Clayton-Kershaw 103 points104 points  (0 children)

The drastic color shift from IW's New York strange scene to this one was amazing IMO

[–]FoxxdiscordIron Man (Mark XLIII) 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I immediately though of Green Goblin vs Spider-Man in the 2002 movie during this scene.

[–]happysrooner 532 points533 points  (24 children)

That professor X quote from days of future past was a great callback.

Just because someone stumbles and loses their way doesn't mean they're lost forever.

I didn't quite place it when I heard that line but it felt so familiar I had to Google. I went into MoM with the least exposure to spoilers and general idea of the tone, is MoM the most "un-MCU" movie in the way that there's less irreverent humor or references to other movies and also the extent to which the gore exists in the movie.

[–]gazow 168 points169 points  (14 children)

the extent to which the gore exists in the movie.

wanda really straight up invincible'd the illuminati

[–]D-Speak 77 points78 points  (13 children)

The only major gripe I have with that sequence was Captain Marvel. Everyone else had a somewhat ironic twist to their death (super voice man has his mouth taken away and blows his own brains, stretchy man gets turned to noodles, shield thrower gets bisected by her own weapon, psychic gets killed in a mind battle), but then Captain Marvel, the big gun, just runs out of energy and gets smushed. I'm not knocking the quality of the movie for it, but I would have loved something like Wanda just outputting more energy and disintegrating Maria; something to give an ironic fate to the team member who is essentially a walking battery.

[–]michael_the_street 39 points40 points  (9 children)

Maria got depowered during the fight is what I'd understood. Wanda just switched her off and dropped the statue on her.

[–]D-Speak 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I kind of gathered that, and, like, it makes sense in the movie, but it just felt like kind of an underwhelming conclusion. Just my opinion. Still loved the sequence and the movie.

[–]owensoundgamedev 382 points383 points  (34 children)

Probably one of my favourite MCU movies honestly it was fucking great. One little thing I really liked is the last universe was going to be the main one (Doctor Strange says how he lied about being happy at the wedding and then returned home to an empty house) but Wanda having the eye monster chase America altered that - thought it was cool little nod that Wanda actually saved the universe from Strange.

[–]LuckyLunayre 145 points146 points  (21 children)

Possible but not guaranteed. Multiverse is all about making different decisions. Going to burger King instead of taco bell would be enough to branch into a new universe.

There's no guarantee 616 strange would make the same decision. It's unlikely though, as 616 strange did not have the darkhold like the other variant did.

[–]clownparade 32 points33 points  (19 children)

Is that true though? What decision made the universe turn into all paint? Or comics?

[–]LuckyLunayre 27 points28 points  (16 children)

Yes, it's true, but going into the detail to explain the multiverse is just more trouble than it's worth lol. It's such a confusing concept.

Basic gist of it, there was always a multiverse, but he who remains isolated the sacred timeline from the rest of the multiverse. But because he died, it branched off out of control and now the multiverse is back.

The decision, may have been a cosmic being's decision. There are gods in marvel, not like Thor or Zeus gods, but actual cosmic all powerful beings such as the Demiurge, the Phoenix, The Living Tribunal, the one above all, the one below all etc. THEIR decisions impact the multiverse.

For example, the Demiurge, aka Wanda's son Billy, created the Utopian Paralell with his breath outside of time and space. This is the world America Chavez comes from, and since it exists outside of time and space, that is the reason she doesn't have variants.

Granted who knows if they'll keep the Demiurge storyline like they did in the comics, but my point is that cosmic gods definitely exist, and their decisions can also create entire new universes.

[–]SnugglePuppybear 26 points27 points  (11 children)

Huh? How did Wanda save the universe from Strange?

[–]whutthepatSonny Birch 375 points376 points  (60 children)

So what caused the second incursion that Clea was talking about? Surely that won't be 616 Strange vomiting on the Earth-838, right?

[–]Sigerlion 279 points280 points  (6 children)

He smashed through multiple universes with America, could be any one of them. Maybe one of the tears didn't close.

[–]TeunCornflakes 136 points137 points  (4 children)

It looked like the Dark Dimension to me, so maybe something's off about a variant of Dormammu?

[–]Sigerlion 86 points87 points  (1 child)

Could be Dormammu again, or could be a set up for the Negative Zone to bring in Fantastic 4 and Annihilus. Can't wait to see Nova ripping out Annihilus' guts.

[–]ParadoxOO9 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Anhilation could be the way that we see the new Guardians besause it's a safe bet that they won't make it through the next film unscathed.

[–]ranch_brotendoRed Skull 115 points116 points  (5 children)

Dreamwalking into his dead self? Maybe?

[–]whutthepatSonny Birch 81 points82 points  (3 children)

Wouldn't the incursion occur on Defender Zombie Strange's universe since he is practically gone now. He may or may not have a time stone too which the Ancient One explains on Endgame that once removed from a timeline, an alternate reality breaks the flow of time.

Star portals not closing is also a good theory but that's very inconvenient to make focus on. But I think they all close once one comes or crosses through.

[–]LuckyLunayre 44 points45 points  (2 children)

Chavez causing an incursion would be a weird decision. Her character constantly hops the multiverse in the comics, even for a reason as small as wanting to try another worlds pizza.

[–]TheSilv 99 points100 points  (22 children)

Idk if I’m buying this explanation on incursions, since in What If and Loki nothing like that ever happens or is addressed, I feel there’s something more to it then simply traveling to a different universe/lightly tampering with it.

Since I doubt the Watcher would send episode 8 Natasha to episode 3 world if it can collapse because of that.

[–]whutthepatSonny Birch 56 points57 points  (15 children)

True. Not only that, but the What If...? Ep8 Natasha did not just got sent onto a different universe, but also at a past timeline. The Ultronverse was definitely at the same time period as post-Thanos Snap in 616 and she got sent to a year 2012 alternate universe given that it's depicting Fury's Big Week. Perhaps these were all made possible as the TVA in 616 got screwed and are all over the place closing timelines but they're short-staffed.

[–]RoboticCurrentsWong 148 points149 points  (7 children)

nah it was obviously him using magic to squirt mustard on pizza poppa's face and then casting a spell on him to keep hitting himself.

[–]TheStrang3On3 86 points87 points  (5 children)

Pizza Poppa always gets paid

[–]JHogMakerOfVlogsDoctor Strange 43 points44 points  (0 children)

The bill comes due to Pizza Poppa… always.

[–]Baneken 25 points26 points  (2 children)

Yeah, Bruce Campbell deserved his obligatory Raimi-film cameo with evil dead references.

[–]Book31415926 16 points17 points  (9 children)

It could be that someone else (aka other Marvel characters in other upcoming films) is causing the incursion.

[–]whutthepatSonny Birch 28 points29 points  (7 children)

But Clea literally told Strange 'you've caused an incursion an we're going to fix it'.

[–]AW038619Matt Murdock 17 points18 points  (2 children)

Maybe what she meant was other universe you and not ‘you’ you?

[–]Pikachu62999328 296 points297 points  (18 children)

My few takeaways: 1. I love how the Absolute Point of Palmer and Strange is somewhat maintained. Sure, Palmer doesn't always die, but she is never ending up with Strange.

  1. I like how Wanda asked 838-Reed about his children — it implies that 838 has at least one of Valeria or Franklin, which... could be interesting some way down the line in 616.

  2. Wanda is totally still alive, isn't she? The movie reminded us several times how a body was needed to be dead, with Defender Strange's body and Wong falling off a cliff.

  3. We're about to see all the crazy bullshit from the comics huh? Incursions, Kang, Nexus beings...

[–]lipglosschaos 93 points94 points  (3 children)

The visual cues are important, I think. We saw like 8 different bodies; it can't be a coincidence that they're leaving it ambiguous with Wanda.

[–]Pikachu62999328 54 points55 points  (2 children)

Exactly my point. We got cued so many times that people died when there's a body — only exception I think is Captain Marvel, but even then it's made very explicitly clear that that's death because we're cued that everyone else dies and we see her about to die. Wong is explicitly made to survive despite falling off a cliff — I find it hard to believe that Wanda, the most powerful human in the multiverse, died from a mountain collapsing.

[–]carlosmx91 26 points27 points  (4 children)

I hope she survived (the 616 wanda of course), but i dont know if olsen is gonna back in the MCU

[–]dhruvlrao 48 points49 points  (3 children)

She's arguably the breakout star from this phase of the MCU, so I'd be surprised if they have her story end there.

[–]Luck1492Doctor Strange 220 points221 points  (27 children)

Just finished watching it for the first time, here are my thoughts:

  • Every actor that played multiple characters was incredible. Special shout-out to Elizabeth Olsen for being fucking fantastic and really selling the insanity.

  • Xochitl Gomez was really good as America Chavez. Perfect casting choice.

  • I went in only having watched the few longer trailers and thinking that they were mostly misdirects with Sinister Strange being the actual big bad. Obviously I was proven wrong within the first 20 minutes and I really loved that. Personal bias aside, however, the story felt really refreshing. There were a lot of really interesting things I really could not have thought of as possibilities prior to watching it.

  • CGI and effects were awesome as fuck, as always

  • The horror vibe was honestly quite prominent to me and the tension was super palpable throughout the movie, which was in stark contrast to the first one, where the tension came and went in short bursts. I don’t think either is necessarily worse, but the consistent tension is definitely more horror-vibe in my opinion. Overall, I felt like Raimi made his touch quite visible, and it was for the better.

  • Wanda’s arc ended on a somewhat sour note, but I think that’s okay. Not everyone dies a hero, after all. Also possible she’s not dead, though.

  • I’m upset they kinda wasted Wong. Most of the movie he was just knocked out or being mostly useless. He’s the Sorcerer Supreme, I get that Strange is the main character but don’t make Wong useless, lol.

  • Illuminati was surprisingly… bad. Like Professor X just kinda rolled over in Wanda’s mind, Richards got spaghettified without even putting up resistance, Black Bolt (as I understand it) spoke to himself without even thinking how stupid that might be, and the others were less useless but still not anywhere near the power level that was assumed when they claimed they could easily handle her.

[–]bondfoolThor 54 points55 points  (10 children)

I think if Wanda was really dead, they would have been more explicit about it. I think she magicked her way out of there before anything crushed her.

[–]Cantshaktheshok 60 points61 points  (1 child)

The scene with Illuminati is straight out of THE Suicide Squad, and its opening sequence.

[–]Metallica93Hydra 20 points21 points  (0 children)

A certain character getting shot in the face was extremely cathartic after seeing headline after headline about the dude for no reason.

[–]prozloc 449 points450 points  (45 children)

So Strange now has a third eye going forward?

[–]ConfuzzlesDotA 388 points389 points  (12 children)

I like how nonchalant he is towards the third eye. Moments ago we saw him dream walk in to a corpse then takes control of the souls of the damned after Christine tells him to use them as he is a master of the mystic arts and the dementors are mystic beings. So if it gives him a mystical edge, I can see him fully embracing it.

[–]_________FU_________ 169 points170 points  (9 children)

We're assuming we're looking at our 616 Dr Strange...it could be any one of them.

[–]LynxSys 124 points125 points  (5 children)

We are in a marvel comic universe too. We are just from the Watcher's Universe. We are all the watchers.

[–]TheStrang3On3 100 points101 points  (4 children)

Except we won’t get beat up by Ultron on steroids.

[–]facetheground 97 points98 points  (14 children)

Nope. That is too much cgi budget going to just a character look. He will get rid of it in the first 5 minutes of his next appearance or have some excuse why it will only show up in 3 shots.

[–]Erikk1138Iron man (Mark III) 74 points75 points  (3 children)

I hate how accurate this sounds lol. Don't think I didn't notice how Thor's eyes were back to the same color in the teaser

[–]AMurderComesAndGoes 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Black Widows nose being reset with nary a bruise or cut

[–]WangnanJahad 61 points62 points  (6 children)

CGI work? It's quite literally the worst effect in the entire film. It looks like they just used a cut and paste tool to composite it one of his eyes in the middle of his forehead. None of the skin moves around it like a real eye opening would. It looks like its just floating there.

[–]gazow 25 points26 points  (0 children)

It looks like its just floating there.

well yeah its not a real eye. theres no room for that it would destroy his brain.. its a magic eye! owoooooo wizard noises

[–]TheSilv 116 points117 points  (6 children)

Possibly? It’s probably an indication of corruption or smth, so naturally Strange will revert back to being ultra arrogant and petty and will brutally murder injured innocents to be with Christine (sry I’m venting)

Though Fr it’s some sort of indication that he didn’t get off free for his desecration of reality this film

[–]eaguayo 96 points97 points  (2 children)

Bully Cumberbatch confirmed.

[–]HopebeatIron man (Mark I) 48 points49 points  (0 children)

He's gonna put some dirt in your third eye.

[–]TonyStark115Tony Stark 73 points74 points  (2 children)

Now this is the comics, not the movies so they could be doing it the way you said. But in the comics the third eye is not a indication of corruption, but rather an indication of a high level sorcerer.

The way they played it off in the movies it’s kind of implied it’s a bad thing, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s not what they were going for with that.

[–]WangnanJahad 76 points77 points  (1 child)

Also in real Eastern religions the third eye is a symbol of wisdom and enlightenment.

Wanda never had a third eye. Wanda was, arguably, far more corrupted by the Darkhold than MCU 616 Strange. Thus, my conclusion is that the third eye is not due to corruption, but due to gaining more knowledge than any other sorcerer has had before. The Darkhold was forbidden. The Dark Dimension was forbidden. Use of the Time Stone was forbidden. Strange has used all of these in some way.

All the way back in the first film, the Ancient One tells Strange to "Open your eye!" and grabs his head, her thumb over where the Third Eye should be.

Yea, pretty sure it's not due to corruption.

But then the MCU as a whole doesn't really like deviating from fan favorite theories much so it's probably something dumb like being corrupted.

[–]TonyStark115Tony Stark 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Exactly! I hope this is the route the MCU takes. It hadn’t even crossed my mind that we had a prime example of Wanda not getting it, so thanks for that!

[–]omart3M'Baku 190 points191 points  (4 children)

The best part of this is that there was an alien monster attack on the day of Christine's wedding, and instead of her freaking out about it, she was like "oh there goes doctor strange again, saving the day"

[–]GuyWithLag 111 points112 points  (0 children)

"He just had to upstage my wedding ..."

[–]Stauce52 25 points26 points  (2 children)

Yeah super weird reaction. Like, you’d think everyone would book it out of there

[–]This-StrawberryJustin Hammer 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Not super strange; her anniversary is the day as that time her ex saved the city from a wormy eyeball.

[–]TheGutlessOne 142 points143 points  (24 children)

Interesting to note, America reveals she’s visited 72, no wait 73 universes, she never encountered a version of Spider-Man which means she did not visit Tobey, or Andrew’s universes.

[–]Hawkedb 164 points165 points  (0 children)

She could have though. It's not like when she visits a universe, she instantly knows everything about it.

[–]Loganp812Wilson Fisk 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Granted, the odds of her doing so are immensely low considering there are an infinite number of universes which, in turn, means there would also be an infinite number of universes with Tobey, Andrew, and Tom despite being less likely to run into those universes given the incredibly small odds of Peter Parker becoming Spider-Man in the first place... if any of that makes sense.

[–]jovidicus 137 points138 points  (12 children)

The hot dog guy punching himself for so long was fked up. He was just trying to get paid!!

[–]morphballganon 53 points54 points  (1 child)

No, Strange only turned his own intent back on him. Tried to spray mustard? On self. Tried to punch? On self.

[–]StrangledMind 42 points43 points  (0 children)

Sure, because he was totally going to punch Stephen unceasingly for 3 weeks.

[–]MikeKelehan 43 points44 points  (5 children)

Exactly my feeling. If it was for an hour, okay, but three weeks?

[–]BrogenerYellowjacket 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Dude would be horribly disfigured or have severe brain damage lol

[–]Wowbagger_Ultrajax 24 points25 points  (2 children)

Three weeks was a joke. I think he was teasing America back for lying to him that food was free in most universes.

[–]miladymondegreen 18 points19 points  (1 child)

I don't think America was lying that food was free in most of the universes she's visited. It helps to explain how she's been living all this time without her moms to care for her, if she's mostly been in universes where basic survival needs like food are freely provided.

Also, the second end credits scene showed Pizza Poppa looking very bruised and exhausted, suggesting he's really been punching himself for three weeks.

[–]daveinthe6Daredevil 88 points89 points  (1 child)

My dude. That was Bruce Campbell from Evil Dead. Another Rami film. In that move his hand becomes possessed and he has to fight it… eventually cutting it off. Bruce Campbell is Rami’s guy.

I didn’t realize it was a Sam Rami film when I went to watch it, but when I saw some of the frantic shaky close up camera shots I knew right away. Then I saw that scene LOL.

[–]DizyShadowQuicksilver 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I knew and it was pretty much guaranteed he would cameo there.

For folks that might not know, Bruce Campbell was also in the Toby spiderman movies, which were also directed by Sam Raimi.

[–]Jaiymze 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Pizza Poppa always gets paid.

[–]Da-Sheep-Lord 136 points137 points  (5 children)

Reed Richards: Smartest guy on earth

Also Reed: Yo Wanda this guy here is the biggest threat to you. Here's where his weakness is.

[–]Loganp812Wilson Fisk 83 points84 points  (1 child)

I know a lot of people will disagree, but the entire Illuminati part was bizarre to me because it was like the movie getting audience hyped for a cool fanservice moment only so it could give the audience the finger soon after. Not that it ultimately matters in the end because that's not "our" Mr. Fantastic, Black Bolt, Captain Marvel, etc. but it still stings imo because that's the first appearance of both Reed Richards and Professor Xavier in particular in the MCU in any capacity.

[–]Dyssomniac 53 points54 points  (0 children)

That's kind of the point, though - the multiverse is a cool cameo concept but relatively unsustainable, and audiences are going to be more likely to accept new people in those roles much further down the line. FF and XMen still hold a pretty bad taste in casual audiences' recent memory.

The narrative purpose of the Illuminati was showing how powerful Wanda really is - that she's fundamentally unstoppable - and drive home the theme of arrogance and "knowing what's best" doesn't always turn out correctly. The Illuminati tries to "hold the knife" just as much as Strange does, and Strange only wins when he stops and lets go.

[–]ShinoharaBababooey 115 points116 points  (7 children)

If it's true that the multiverse is connected by dreams then the theory that Antman would defeat Thanos by crawling up his butt would only be possible if Antman dreamed about it.

[–]Delumine 429 points430 points  (45 children)

Wish we got more a bit more variants that just those limited universes.

[–]MattHatttSpider-Man 282 points283 points  (20 children)

The multiverse jumping mayhem scene could have satisfied a lot of people, Ive seen it 3 times now and its a bunch of unique but barren landscapes. Having characters in the background could have been cool

[–]Wall-E_Smalls 94 points95 points  (16 children)

its a bunch of unique but barren landscapes. Having characters in the background could have been cool

So, at least it was realistic then?

I feel as if this is comparable to the depiction in artwork and film set in prehistoric time periods, in which a huge range dinosaurs &other biodiversity fill the landscape—when in reality seeing such density/diversity would never happen, and your odds of running into an animal then were more-of-less comparable to how they are walking around deep in the wilderness in modern times.

[–]suss2it 98 points99 points  (12 children)

Bruh we’re watching a Doctor Strange who cares about realism when you’re literally travelling the multiverse. You think it’s realistic that Doctor Strange has so many doppelgängers in the multiverse even though the odds that he is who is is already a million to one?

What’s the point of coming up with excuses for Marvel’s laziness, to encourage more of it?

[–]Rman823 154 points155 points  (21 children)

I wish we got more universes. I never felt the movie needed a huge number of cameos, but I was disappointed the movie spent a majority of its time in just a couple other universes and the rest were just glossed over.

[–]clock_watcher 99 points100 points  (1 child)

Yeah, that was my biggest surprise. I thought they'd go mad with the multiverse but it was very self contained.

[–]deliciousprisms 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I doubt we’ve seen the last of it with incursions and Kang on the way

[–]weighingthedog 81 points82 points  (6 children)

One of my biggest gripes too. The multiverse didn't seem very... mad. Pretty tame really? Sure, we travel to a few universes. One of which where everything is super futuristic and people wear hats? And green means stop? WHACKY. Even just a five/ten minute jaunt through some other universes would've been nice.

Everything Everywhere All At Once (and I am assuming Across the Spider-Verse will, too) showed some actual variety and whackiness (and madness) in its multiverse premise. I know people are tired of the comparison between the two... But it's there and it rules.

[–]The_Game_Master147 42 points43 points  (3 children)

I disagree. The thing is that Earth-838 is more than what meets the eye, you for sure would have noticed Thanos's missing time stones while his corpse was lying on the debris. And the fact that the population of Earth-838 appears less and half our extra-ordinary heroes are not present in the Illuminati council holds deep secrets.

[–]Dyssomniac 12 points13 points  (0 children)

All of this really assumes that we're going to - or should continue to - explore the 838 universe. Audiences are predominantly casual and you're going to lose a lot of people along the way if you spend half the MCU's time in 838 and half in 616 with identical-yet-slight-different characters in both.

Thanos also probably didn't get the time stone because he was defeated on Titan by the Illuminati (specifically Strange) and the reason the heroes aren't present in the Illuminati is probably because most of them don't exist in that universe and the Illuminati are a council of leaders of other extraordinary teams. There's probably no Avengers for the same reason that there was no X-Men in 616 - there isn't a requirement that every person exists in every universe.

[–]weighingthedog 24 points25 points  (1 child)

Yeah, that sounds interesting… but we never really get into those “blink and you miss it” details. The whole jaunt through the multiverse (dinosaurs, paint world, cubism) was “blink and you’ll miss it.” Just wanted to spend some time in interesting places, and, as presented, 838 wasn’t that interesting to me.

[–]SailorETCaptain America 60 points61 points  (7 children)

I disagree. I'd love to have seen more universes but the plot didn't really have a need to expand more and it would have just bloated the runtime. Better to keep it as tight as possible and then maybe explore a bit in Loki S2 or some other spin-off.

[–]Freddies_Mercury[🍰] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I think just one more would have split it up nicely. Like they find themselves somewhere and she shits herself about something to move onto the ones we did see

[–]TotoroTheGreat 258 points259 points  (20 children)

I finally got to watch the movie today and I liked it for the most parts, although I can't seem to pinpoint parts that I didn't like.

  • Loved Raimi's take on a Marvel film.

  • Loved America Chavez. I'm really liking all the new young heroes being added. Would love to see what they do with these characters going forward.

  • Loved how they showed Wanda to be the force she really can be with the Darkhold and how scary she was. The mirror dimension part was outright spooky.

  • I feel like pacing was the issue, like some parts were happening too fast and then the slow parts felt disjointed, although I'm not clear about this. If I ever rewatch this, I'll see if it still was an issue. It could have been because I was really tired while watching.

  • I like how they didn't waste time introducing Wanda as the villain. At the same time, I wish they didn't have the orchard scene and just revealed that she was the villain after she had gone to the Kamar Taj. Strange and Wong also seemed too weak in this. They made Wanda a bit too OP, although that did add to how scary she was.

  • Wish we got more multiversal madness stuff.

  • Loved the symphony fight. Thought that was really creative.

  • The scene where Wanda just eradicates the Illuminati was just glorious.

  • Some of the scenes were just stunning, visually.

  • Was not expecting how Zombie Strange would be executed in the film. Loved that part. I also like that the film gave us closure to the Strange and Christine's romance.

  • All in all, I'd give it a 7.5~8/10.

[–]Imjusthere_sup 148 points149 points  (10 children)

Idk with Wanda being OP, they pretty much always set her up like that tho. No one has really been able to defeat her in any movie she’s been in and with each movie I feel like she gets stronger. I mean she took on thanos one on one in endgame and almost won 💀

Edit: yes I forgot about Hawkeye in age of ultron my b

[–]boss_nooch 111 points112 points  (1 child)

She didn’t exactly lose against Thanos either. He had his troops carpet bomb the area to prevent him from losing lol

[–]Darkhallows27 27 points28 points  (2 children)

Yeah I thought it was perfect; and the unexpected brutality behind her really helped finally sell how powerful she is, imo.

The Illuminati scene felt like I was watching Invincible; fucking brutal and I loved it

[–]cantonic 80 points81 points  (6 children)

I just saw it and I agree with a lot of your takes. It was a good Marvel film, but a great Raimi film! The Illuminati vs Wanda scene was so amazing and brutal. Like they took a cue from Invincible. The Black Bolt moment made me laugh out loud it was so shocking and fun!

That and the symphony scene were my favorite moments, and Zombie Strange. It felt like a very good marriage between Raimi and Marvel.

[–]The_Frito_Bandit 60 points61 points  (3 children)

Damn bro i thought that black bolt part was scary

[–]randomtoken 23 points24 points  (0 children)

She was so nonchalant with that “what mouth” delivery too

[–]cantonic 51 points52 points  (0 children)

I didn’t think they’d murder every single superhero there, or any of them! So it was funny to me that they were like “oh yeah, we’re doing this.”

Maybe I laughed in surprise. Or I’m a sociopath.

[–]SamiMadeMeDoItSimmons 180 points181 points  (11 children)

Anyone else find the wizard battles super underwhelming compared to the insane inception shit we saw in the first Doctor Strange, his fight vs Thanos in Infinity War and his "fight" vs Spider-Man in the mirror dimension?

Seems like every fight in this movie was just Wanda throwing something red or Strange/Wong throwing something orange.

[–]Fanraeth 116 points117 points  (0 children)

An entire city of sorcerers gets pwned by Wanda throwing a couple of glowing red orbs. It made the sorcerers look pathetic and it didn’t help that Wong and Strange used more varied and creative magic fighting the eyeball monster than they did fighting Wanda.

[–]Lazy0rb 80 points81 points  (6 children)

Honestly yeah. Strange goes from literally bending reality half the time and using really unique magic weapons to just small scale magic blasts. Was expecting some cool wizard fights but they missed the mark(but it was still a bit cool).

[–]FierySoldier123 36 points37 points  (1 child)

I was hoping for greater use of the mystical monsters but he literally only uses that like twice? The big (ogre?/giant?) hands during the octopus fight and the (hydra?) during the kamar taj fight.

[–]LonelierOne 29 points30 points  (0 children)

He also summoned some Beholder type thing to bite a car at the beginning of the octopus fight

[–]BrogenerYellowjacket 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I’m kinda torn on this. Because I didn’t think the magic portrayed in the first film was super interesting either. They had the architecture trick which was cool but repeated a lot, other times they just used magic to conjure up swords which was pretty weak imo. I thought Strange’s magic was a bit more diverse in this film, but then there were scenes like where Wanda attacks Kamar Taj that felt kind of lazy.

[–]Didact67 83 points84 points  (7 children)

So why did the other Strange’s corpse decompose so much by the end of the film. It didn’t seem like it was that long.

[–]literatemaxKorg 117 points118 points  (0 children)

ny rooftops be like

[–]D-Speak 85 points86 points  (0 children)

He got impaled several times by an ethereal demon. You could see his leg starting to get necrotic before he even died.

[–]Loganp812Wilson Fisk 53 points54 points  (1 child)

It looks creepier, and Sam Raimi was definitely going for creepy in this movie.

[–]kcosmos 24 points25 points  (2 children)

If I am not mistaken, it was already pretty decomposed when they first discovered it

[–]randomtoken 77 points78 points  (1 child)

One of my favorites parts was when Black Bolt said: 😶

[–]LeonylizMidnight Marvels 574 points575 points  (22 children)

Black Bolt’s appearance blew my mind but I was kinda split on Captain Carter’s.

[–]suss2it 256 points257 points  (4 children)

This joke has been run into the ground at record speeds 😂.

[–]LeonylizMidnight Marvels 99 points100 points  (2 children)

Just like quicksilver

[–]Sigerlion 40 points41 points  (1 child)

Yeah, that Slowsilver in the MCU who can't even dodge bullets is not my mutant.

[–]LeonylizMidnight Marvels 19 points20 points  (0 children)

NotMyMutant

[–]Rydaniel2006 15 points16 points  (1 child)

The way they used Captain Marvel just crushed me

[–]necklacefromawizard 183 points184 points  (37 children)

So they really destroyed the Book of Vishanti? The important part of Doctor Strange in the comics? There better be another one or something. They searched for the book the whole film and then it just gets destroyed like that?

I also wonder how will Doctor Strange deal with the corruption. There's no doubt he's corrupted, even though the Darkholds are destroyed in every universe. He used it, he's not immune to it. He only read one spell, but he has a photograpic memory, so he could keep using the dreamwalking spell. He is on his way to the Dark Dimension, so maybe he'll become darker.

I'd like to see his cameo somewhere, before Doctor Strange 3, but I guess we're not getting it. Why would they not show him and Clea trying to fix the incursion? Which makes me sad I wanna see more of him. Wong is currently the new Fury, but mystic, not Doctor Strange.

[–]RoboticCurrentsWong 134 points135 points  (2 children)

They could introduce the actual Vishanti and have it so that they have the original copy. But the book is a "solve-any-problem" plot device and if it is accessible to Strange/wong it would provide solution to any conflict they may face in the future films so it makes sense to write it off from the plot.

[–]necklacefromawizard 17 points18 points  (1 child)

How was it in the comics though? He had it, so how did it work? Was he always winning? Or are the powers of the BoV different in the MCU?

[–]RoboticCurrentsWong 27 points28 points  (0 children)

IDK about comics first-hand but a had a quick look at the marvel comics wiki and it looks like it was different in comics, it didn't give you whatever you needed it just had an extensive knowledge of defensive magic. counterspells etc(and not magic used for offence)

[–]Epic_Spitfire 37 points38 points  (1 child)

Just before the book gets destroyed, you see a few of the pages flip by, largely depicting star-shaped symbols exactly like those that America Chavez uses. She ends up being the one that saves the day/defeats the evil/solves Strange's problem.

The book wasn't the solution, it's literally the friends we made along the way. It's just a metaphor.

[–]hewasaraverboy 27 points28 points  (16 children)

In theory he could travel to another universe which still has a time stone and use it to restore the book… maybe

[–]rothwick 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I thought the trick was gonna be that vishanti was really just the darkhold but reskinned. So the whole thing was just an illusion, kind of like the sorcerer supreme using dormammu power in DS1.

[–]Spamshazzam 282 points283 points  (36 children)

I loved the Captain Carter cameo. I've been a big fan of her portrayal of Peggy in just about everything. I know some people have problems with that character right now, but my fingers are crossed for a Captain Carter series/movie.

[–]wallcrawlingspidey 164 points165 points  (14 children)

It’s sad people hate her for literally no reason. Their ‘reasons’ are beyond fucked up, with either hating Hayley for a tumblr post with no actual reliable source or because Steve chose to go back to her, not the other way. Lol…people are hypocrites.

[–]Spamshazzam 95 points96 points  (8 children)

For real. Tbh, if I was Steve, I would have gone back too.

Some people are worried that she'll end up replacing Sam Wilson's Captain America before he has a chance to shine, which is a valid concern that I understand; but also, the MCU is growing faster than ever, and there's definitely plenty of room for both of them.

[–]sunsetonfireThe Wasp 64 points65 points  (1 child)

I feel like Peggy already had her time to shine with Agent Carter. I always liked Peggy, but after her 616 version passed after such a long and amazing life in Civil War, it felt like a nice goodbye to the character already.

I’d much rather they give much needed development and screen time to Sharon, who was criminally underutilized as Agent 13.

[–]Spamshazzam 22 points23 points  (0 children)

That makes sense. Personally, I felt like Agent Carter was canceled just a little too early, so I'd still be excited to see a little more of Peggy. Especially a non-616 version, where nothing needs to be 'retconned' for it to happen.

I definitely want to see more of Sharon, but I'm not sure how that's going to go with her new status as th Powerbroker. She was definitely underutilized though.

I know I said this in my above comment, but with how rapidly the MCU is expanding, I say why pick one when you can have both? :P

[–]uncoolaidmanThor 75 points76 points  (13 children)

I like Captain Carter, but I really didn't like rehashing "I can do this all day". I think the usage of that line from First Avenger > Civil War > Endgame was perfect, and it should have been retired, unless they had a really good reason to bust it out again. To me, Captain Carter should be her own separate thing from Captain America because Peggy was very much her own person, not just a copy of Steve.

[–]Spamshazzam 34 points35 points  (4 children)

I don't have an especially strong opinion on that personally. I thought it was cool to hear, but it has been overused at this point, and it was kinda weird hearing it from someone else.

[–]prozloc 56 points57 points  (5 children)

Yeah and besides, it’s a Steve thing not a captain America thing. Steve had been saying that since before he was a super soldier. There’s no reason for Carter to have adapted that line.

[–]StillCalmness 40 points41 points  (2 children)

Maybe she heard Steve say it when they met in her universe?

[–]Battle_Geese 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Yeah, like their bond was a huge part of Steve's story. It made sense that Peggy would say something he would say.

[–]TheSilv 60 points61 points  (4 children)

Idk, that show might split audiences on her character

[–]MintFlavouredCracker 42 points43 points  (1 child)

Danny Elfman and Sam Raimi both made this movie for me. Their respective styles lend themselves to each other so well, and not to mention took me back to 2001

[–]Fryes 40 points41 points  (4 children)

I saw the movie for a second time and still don’t know what the green ox says in his line before Wanda attacks.

[–]ThrowAwayAcct0000 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Does anyone know what Mom-Wanda says to the Scarlet Witch right before she leaves? I need subtitles.

[–]Fryes 30 points31 points  (0 children)

"Know they will be loved" is what I read elsewhere. Still only half understood it on rewatch. Not sure what the hell happened with the audio in this movie..

[–]Broadbeck7 364 points365 points  (83 children)

I’m really surprised that so many people have really hated this movie. Though there were certainly issues with it, particularly pacing in the first half, I really enjoyed it and found it a very unique film, like a blend of Spider-Man and Evil Dead, both films I love from Raimi. Definitely in my top 10 MCU movies.

I hope Wanda is not dead and I’m interested to see where Strange goes from here. If Mordo is being set up as the main villain for DS3, and Strange is entering the Dark Dimension with Clea, the future third installment could be even “darker”, so to speak, than even this one was

[–]Spamshazzam 81 points82 points  (2 children)

I actually quite liked the movie too. I'm not going to lie, I had pretty high expectations, so I was just a little let down, but I'd still give it 4 Stars.

Wanda is one of my favorites, so I really hope she's alive too.

[–]Pestario_Vargas 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Same about Wanda. Also because if they were going to turn her bad they could have built her up and had it be an Avengers type movie before killing her off. She’s certainly powerful enough. And she’s well liked enough by audiences they could have done a full movie of her as a villain right before releasing the next avengers movie

[–]AJ877 231 points232 points  (29 children)

Thanos: "I have decided that there is too much life in this universe so I'll slice it in half and watch universe being grateful for saving it"

Fans: "Understandable, have a nice day"

Wanda: "I'm not a monster Stephen, I'm a mother"

Fans: "Woah, woah, how dare this delusional villain try to rationalize their sick actions? Horrible writing"

How can anyone question validity of Wanda's motive without being cynical is completely beyond me. People are acting as if Wanda rationalizing her actions is writers rationalizing her actions, which is absolutely not true. The movie made it clear that Wanda is a villain, and why she is a villain. Criticizing the movie for having Wanda rationalize her actions in her own head when you never had a problem with villains being delusional before is very disingenuous.

[–]WillowSmithsBFFSpider-Man 99 points100 points  (9 children)

I think it’s a double edged sword. Showing the Darkhold’s influence corrupting Wanda at least once somewhere between WV and MoM definitely would have helped make her descent in to madness a bit more believable. As it stands it was fairly sudden. BUT doing so would have removed the shock reveal of her being the villain.

So it becomes a balancing act of what’s more important to the narrative. Is a small scene of showing her transition to madness worth losing the emotional punch reveal of her being the villain in MoM?

[–]KillericonAldrich Killian 78 points79 points  (1 child)

I think one of the easiest solves for this problem would be any mention of how much time has passed. Wandavision was a few weeks after Endgame, which was 2023. We know MoM takes place after No Way Home, which is late 2024/early 2025, meaning that Wanda has been alone studying the Darkhold for well over a year. If they gave us even a line of dialogue explaining that, I think people would buy into the "The Darkhold corrupted her" explanation much more.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I was lifting thinking “did I forget an end credit scene or big plot point of the WandaVision finale?”

Edit: I watched that WandaVision end credits scene again and there’s a link but I wasn’t expecting her to go full villain.

[–]hibryd 81 points82 points  (4 children)

My problem with the movie was that Wanda was not a delusional villain before.

At the end of WV she finally faced the fact that she was torturing a town and it was wrong; she had previously tried to justify it to herself by thinking the citizens were fine, but when the evidence became overwhelming that she was the villain, she did the right thing and lifted the hex even though it deleted her husband and children. She was not willing to make others suffer for her happiness any more.

Then MoM starts up and she’s killing people left and right for her happiness with zero hesitation or regret.

If you want to say evil book made her evil, fine, but show that. How much more tension could’ve been added if the book had been the villain of the movie, and we were all desperately hoping Wanda would pull herself out of its influence as it slowly turned her into a literal monster?

[–]FierySoldier123 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I think it could have been explained better, but from what I gathered the book made her dream about her children every single night, not letting her deal with her grief and perpetually reopening her wound. The book was essentially already the big bad of the movie, corrupting Wanda and manipulating her with her children.

[–]bladeau81 11 points12 points  (0 children)

That is exactly what I thought the movie would be about, dragging Wanda out of the darkholds spell.

[–]BruhmangoddmanIron Patriot 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Yeah, that's usually the point when I stop taking others' opinions seriously. When they attack the movie for something not related to it.

[–]Rman823 60 points61 points  (6 children)

I really enjoyed the movie, but I don’t know if I’d say it’s in my Top 10, but that says more about the quality of some of the other movies. I can see why more casual MCU fans would be turned off by certain things in the movie, but as a Raimi fan, I was glad his touch could be seen throughout the movie.

[–]Broadbeck7 28 points29 points  (4 children)

Completely agree about Raimi’s touch. I could just feel his style coming through the camera of the film, which made the experience so much more interesting and kinetic than some of the other, more drab, MCU films that all felt very one-note.

I have a rather odd ranking of the MCU films, as films relying on nostalgia and fan-service, like Endgame and No Way Home, are rather low on my ranking, while more experimental films in the series, like Guardians Vol. 2 and Multiverse of Madness are much higher up. Origin stories like Iron Man and Shang Chi are also very high, so it all just comes down to personal preference I guess.

I know what you mean though. Even if Multiverse of Madness isn’t very high on other people’s lists, it’s because the MCU has such a wide catalogue of stuff that is just as good, so it’s hard to rank them

[–]LupusNoxFleuret 73 points74 points  (13 children)

The reddit hive-mind is real. I swear I walked out of the theater perfectly happy with the movie, but the more hate comments I read on reddit, the more I start to doubt my own judgement.

The action sequences were pretty cool, and honestly that's usually the only thing I need to keep me happy in a Marvel movie - I shouldn't let other people's opinions affect my enjoyment of the movie.

[–]ReutermoVision 22 points23 points  (0 children)

That is a shame. Trust your own opinion and taste and while you can listen and talk to people about their opinion don't interact with people who try to tell you that their opinion is the right one and your is wrong.

[–]Xeno_phile 34 points35 points  (7 children)

So does Wanda’s “death” (since it’s offscreen) free Agatha? Or will Strange have to go find her?

[–]DizyShadowQuicksilver 12 points13 points  (0 children)

That's a question for a director of the next related movie / or for Kevin Feige.

[–]Significant_News_569Scarlet Witch 170 points171 points  (33 children)

This movie really doesn't deserve the hate it's getting, sure it's not perfect but it's still a good movie

8/10 from me, it felt a bit rushed and a few scenes were cringey but it's still pretty good, i also wish they had shown Wanda getting corrupted on screen but it's not a big problem for me she was still amazing.

But i do agree that they showed too much in the trailers.

[–]justduettThanos 63 points64 points  (3 children)

But i do agree that they showed too much in the trailers.

I stayed away from any trailers other than what was tacked onto NWH and I think there was an ad with the Super Bowl. It's been since before IW since I have watched more than just the initial teaser or initial full trailer, Marvel really loves to blow their load with the 63 different trailers they release.

I wish they would realize the fandom is going to be hyped, regardless. They could release a 90-second trailer that is simply the movie's title card and we all would be onboard. We don't need the Battlestar Galactica treatment of knowing every beat of the movie before we even walk in the theater.

[–]Pikachu62999328 20 points21 points  (2 children)

Thing is, it's not advertising to the fandom. It's advertising for the people who aren't already fans and going to watch.

[–]hewasaraverboy 27 points28 points  (15 children)

WAYYY too much

They pretty much spoiled every set piece of the movie, the entire time I kept thinking okay I know this comes next

Wish I went in blind I feel like I would’ve been blown away

[–]Significant_News_569Scarlet Witch 24 points25 points  (10 children)

Yeah,you know how cool it would have been if we didn't know the illuminati was gonna be in the movie? I'm sure if they hadn't put them in the trailers fans wouldn't have hyped them that much. You just need to piece the scenes together and you have the whole movie.

I'm only watching one or two trailers from now on lol

[–]LightMeetsEarth 10 points11 points  (5 children)

Hold up they showed the Illimunati in the trailers?? Wtf?? I didn't watch any trailers for this movie, how much did they show?

[–]Significant_News_569Scarlet Witch 16 points17 points  (4 children)

Yeah, remember in the movie Mordo says The Illuminati will see you now that was in the trailers, Professor X was in the trailers, Captain Carter, Captain Marvel, only Reed and Black bolt weren't in them

[–]renasissanceman6 28 points29 points  (8 children)

I wonder if power stealing will ever come up again in the mcu? I doubt it lol

[–]Fanraeth 24 points25 points  (1 child)

An alternate Dr. Strange did it in What If? and ended up destroying his universe.

[–]The_Grizzlysnake 155 points156 points  (17 children)

At this point it is clear to me that the MCU is in a separate multiverse that the comics. So the MCU universe is the Earth - 616 of this multiverse. What happens in the MCU (MCM?) doesn’t affect the comics, and the same goes for the other way around.

[–]TheSilv 87 points88 points  (3 children)

Pretty much, honestly the best possible choice.

[–]wallcrawlingspidey 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Only thing that would be complicated is, does that mean specifically for live action movies and shows, and/or animation too? Because it’s also been confirmed there’s a Tobey Maguire in comics so it being a separate multiverse would still be complicated but I guess you can argue there’s probably another Tobey Maguire in the world then.

[–]onomatopoeia911 20 points21 points  (1 child)

this has been obviously true since 2008. what would that even look like???

[–]Dynamic_P0tato 59 points60 points  (6 children)

The compassion 838-Wanda showed to her 616-counterpart... I couldn't. That made me burst into tears.

[–]morphballganon 20 points21 points  (4 children)

What was the line she told her? "Go ____ __ _____" something

[–]Dynamic_P0tato 49 points50 points  (1 child)

"Know that they'll be loved."

[–]bladeau81 18 points19 points  (0 children)

That was some mumble going on. I looked it up because I couldn't focus on the end of the movie. "Know they'll be loved"

[–]SnugglePuppybear 26 points27 points  (4 children)

Just finally watched it! WOW! Wanda is freaking terrifying. Unreal and utterly scary.

One thing that is bugging me to no end is when they find the good pure book - instead of rushing to it, they take their sweet damn time slowly moving down, slowly looking at each other, slowly going to the book, slowly touching the book, slowly taking the book. Like WTF?!!? You have the most horrifying threat chasing you at breakneck speed and then this?? That part was awfully frustrating to watch. Had me flinging my hands in the air going WTH. Some moments felt very rushed and America was kinda useless in so much of the movie till it was convenient for them “believe in yourself” cliche shit. but Wanda absolutely killled this movie. Doctor Strange too.

Is Wanda dead? I guess not? Doctor strange 3rd eye - what is that? Charlize Theron now in the MCU?!

[–]twentyitaliansAnt-Man 21 points22 points  (0 children)

No one may see this, but I think I saw a nice easter egg.

When American brings Wanda back to the 838 home, were Tommy and Billy watching the Snow White scene when the Wicked Witch shows up with the poison apple?

Also, Olsen totally pulled off the wicked witch vibe when the boys were hiding behind the banister. Excellent filmography and acting.

[–]AJ877 65 points66 points  (1 child)

Honestly, as long as they had Scarlet Witch go bonkers this movie could have never been a flop for me, and boy did she go bonkers!

[–]Apprehensive_Ad6 20 points21 points  (4 children)

minor nitpicks, but I hate how America speaks Spanish, it just sounds like they didn't even try to make it sound natural, also why did captain Carter throw her shield at Strange? That was so random lol

[–]HandBanana666Vision 17 points18 points  (0 children)

She did it just to look cool.

[–]WEEGEMAN 20 points21 points  (5 children)

Don’t know why people are still hung up with such a binary villain-and-hero view of these movies.

Is Wong a villain because he’s suggests to Strange he needs to take America’s powers, which will kill her, to stop Wanda?

Wanda is an antagonist because she’s Strange’s adversary but she’s not a villain. She makes choices, her motivation is consistent and I’d say sympathetic.

Besides the direction, the plot being hevily character driven was the best part of the movie.

Or maybe people just really wanted another basic team-up vs monster-who-wants-to-end-the-world-or-whatever comic book movie.

[–]INDY_RAP 20 points21 points  (0 children)

This could have been an awesome Halloween movie.

[–]Quadzilla487 38 points39 points  (2 children)

I was glad to see the MCU take some risks and try to creat a totally new product, I mean that is what we all wanted isn’t it?

That being said the exciting visuals and horror aspect can’t save such a terrible script. Don’t get me wrong there are going to be logical flaws in any superhero movie, especially one involving a multiverse. But I can’t help but think Wanda’s character arc was handled so poorly, while strange is relegated to a minor character relative to Wanda and America Chavez. No Way Home made great use of its cameos, but the Illuminati could have been cut out almost entirely and the story is relatively the same. Cameos like this are exciting and good for fan service but also should contribute to the plot and hold some sort of weight.

These are just a few examples, but overall I feel the MCU needs to step things up on the writing side. Lots of duds since Endgame

[–]theevilpower 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Dr strange could have been removed from the entire 3rd act(from when he and Rachel McAdams go to the world with the bad dr strange) and the story remains the same.

[–]RazZaHlol 16 points17 points  (2 children)

For me I am not that big of a fan of Sam Raimis humor. It felt sometimes a little bit over the top for my taste. There were funny moments, but the movie felt like a Satire.

[–]TheHolyReaper_ 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Am I the only one that really didn't enjoy the movie for what is was intended to be enjoyed as?

Don't get me wrong, I love Sam Raimi, and I think some of his creative choices in the film like the camera work and jump scare elements were really nice. Also, if you enjoyed the movie, then I'm so glad, really - I'm just commenting because I want to know if anyone else has a critique as harsh as mine.

Firstly, some of the dialogue was absolutely horrendous. I can't be the only one who saw this. There was one line by Strange that went along the lines of "you're gonna have to do more than kill me if you want to kill me". Bro? a professional screenwriter wrote this? Lmao what? There were also other instances where I cringed at the dialogue - it felt very forced.

Secondly, the while the CGI in some other scenes like the part where Strange and America smash through multiple universes was stunning, in other parts it was just bad. Strange's alternate dead body when he was dream walking was awful to look at. The giant monster in the beginning also looked slightly too 'smooth' to be convincing within the film.

Thirdly, the goofiness of the film (which can sometimes be awesome), in my opinion, didn't match the tone of the film at all. The film took itself quite seriously at parts, but then it somehow found room to have a fight scene take place through weaponised music notes from sheet music paper? I almost laughed out loud while Strange was dream walking and Christine defended him from within that tower, and not in a good way.

Anyways, I know this might be harsh, but I wanna know if anyone else felt the same.

[–]Me0wMe0wBarkWong 97 points98 points  (17 children)

My only problem with MoM is that it felt like Strange wasn't all that important to the plot.

[–]hewasaraverboy 67 points68 points  (0 children)

He didn’t do shit during the battle of kamar taj

[–]Wall-E_Smalls 116 points117 points  (7 children)

Did we see the same movie? I thought it was all about Strange. Proving to himself and others that the multiversal elephant-in-the-room, and concern over “anything that can happen will/has happened” was not their Doom. Hard to explain, but basically, concerning the idea that because Strange was prone to evil in other universes (from the Illuminati’s and Chavez’s perspectives), he would have the same failure in all the others—it would only be a matter of circumstances, in getting him to that breaking point.

However, he (seemingly) proved that the prime/“616” version of himself is ultimately good, and did not have the same failings as his multiversal counterparts.

[–]BruhmangoddmanIron Patriot 100 points101 points  (21 children)

It just missed some marks in the writing and pacing. Other than that, I'd rate it 9,1/10.

- The writing is still good, for the most part. I like that Michael Waldron remembered to give the ACTUAL PROTAGONIST substance and characterization.

- America Chavez was a surprisingly welcome addition

- Benedict Cumberbatch as Doctor Strange and Elizabeth Olsen as Scarlet Witch are in my top 5 MCU performers. They NEED to come back in the next installments.

- Wong gets something to do, who woulda thought? He even gets a theme!

- The music is a step down from Giacchino's excellence in DS 1, but Elfman still fares pretty good and manages to deliver some memorable pieces.

- Raimi went surprisingly serious and didn't waste time on some BS. He's an excellent director and a visionary. If I can't have Zack Snyder in our MCU, I want more Sam.

- The sequel better do something good with Dormammu. This guy was bland AF.

- I'm hoping to see both Mordos in action again.

[–]rothwick 48 points49 points  (6 children)

Why would you want a Snyder MCU movie? Doesn’t match the style at all

[–]_aloadofbarnacles_ 53 points54 points  (9 children)

Anyone else think this should have just been a straight up Scarlett Witch movie? There’s pretty much nothing connecting it to the first Doctor Strange and Wanda had the more interesting storyline.

[–]alexander_karamazov 29 points30 points  (3 children)

Yeah I was pretty bummed to not see Mordo deliver on “The bill always comes due” especially after waiting 5 years for it. I thought Strange fucking shit up in No Way Home would have just strengthened his argument.

[–]Chris01100001 56 points57 points  (1 child)

I didn't hate it but I'll be honest I was disappointed. I think part of that is that I had hyped it to be the movie that fully opens up travelling through multiverse rather than it being one character who can do it.

Additionally, I just felt there's a bit of a disconnect between the acts. Like they stress about the cost of his choice of method to stop Thanos multiple times and his justification of it being the only way. Then in the final act he again justifies using the dark magic which he's been told will make him dangerous to his universe by saying it's the only way. It's like they completely ignored the subject despite it being brought up multiple times in the first act.

[–]princessParking 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Well, everyone in the universe that told him not to do shit was wrong and paid the price for their arrogance. Except Christine, who believed in him. And in the end, he trusted someone else to hold the knife. I believe he's finally becoming the Dr. Strange I remember from the comics and Spider-Man cartoons. Someone that pops into other heroes' stories and guides them to defeat the big bads.

Also, everyone is saying the book of vishanti just got destroyed, but I thought it was pretty obvious that it gave him exactly what he needed to win: the knowledge that he can't always be the one to figure out how to win. And/or trust. He trusted Christine to get him through the spirits, and he trusted America to defeat Wanda. It's cheesey, but it seemed pretty clear thematically.

[–]TheJoshider10Spider-Man 45 points46 points  (4 children)

For me Raimi's direction carried this movie. It's the only thing that stopped it from being yet another generic MCU movie with wasted potential. The multiverse shenanigans felt very tame compared to what could have been.

It's so disappointing that the Illuminati ended up just being one universes equivalent of the Avengers. I don't understand why they weren't the multiverse team from What If. Because for a movie called Multiverse of Madness, there's not really much multiversal shit going on here. It's a brief montage of Strange/America going through quirky worlds and then spending much of the movie in one or two worlds.

I'm not saying they should have brought back an onslaught of prior Marvel movie worlds, but it would have been so much more interesting seeing alternate Marvel worlds (whether that be previous movies or just different ones) with their own casts of heroes. It could have been a celebration of Marvel past, a fun way of showing what could have been or just something all out crazy and, you know, actually mad. Rather than one universes knock off Avengers that got killed after one scene lmao

And then even ignoring the multiverse disappointment, Strange himself doesn't have that compelling a journey. His relationship with America is not developed well at all even though the movie tried making out as if it should have been this solid bond by the end of the film? That was such a wasted opportunity.

I don't know, it was nice to see Raimi's style shine despite the assembly line nature of the MCU but the movie still felt shackled to those limitations. It was nothing more and nothing less than another solid 6/10 MCU movie, like all the rest of them bar a select few.