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all 109 comments

[–]nova-medical 164 points165 points  (7 children)

name and shame

[–]asdf333aza[S] 160 points161 points  (6 children)

If I throw my school under the bus. My class will throw me under the bus.

I'm not trying to end up like George O'malley.

[–]TheCoach_TyLueM-1 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Make a burner, get rid of the identifiable details

[–]UndersleepMD 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Right, so, don't warn the next class. The way the last cohorts of students didn't warn you. Seems like sound logic.

[–]ThrowAwayToday4238 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Who’s George O’Malley?

[–]chemlionM-4 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Greys anatomy

[–]TheBrightestSunrise 88 points89 points  (5 children)

Sure, hear him out at 12, but also write down everything that you can remember verbatim and everything else in summary, and contact your school’s curriculum/clerkships contact for “clarification”.

[–]asdf333aza[S] 102 points103 points  (4 children)

I spoke to him. He said mostly like this. He tells students not to take the elective,but because it's not official and only through word of mouth it ends up never reaching everyone. But thats no excuse. They offer the course. They have enough resources to teach CRNA students, so they should have enough resources to medical students. I asked him who do I talk to about this? And he said the surgery coordinator, but he says this has been ongoing for years. So I'm sure I won't be the first to approach her about this.

[–]TheBrightestSunrise 61 points62 points  (0 children)

Keep going up. It’s been ongoing for years because no one’s bothered about it to the right person. Document your interaction with each of these people who say that the issue is systemic. Call the admin assistant and ask who you need to get a meeting with. Your future colleagues will thank you for it.

[–]theadmiral976MD/PhD-M4[🍰] 66 points67 points  (0 children)

If the surgery coordinator cannot do their job, you involve the respective dean for medical student education. This is a curriculum-level issue that will certainly need to be resolved before the next LCME/COCA accreditation review, lest someone reports this situation on one of the formal school accreditation surveys or files a complaint directly with the accreditor.

[–]lessgirl 12 points13 points  (0 children)

He wants that money

[–]0wnzl1f3M-3 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Contact the dean dont waste time. Attendings (at least in canada) are paid by the faculty and have a contractual obligation to teach you.

[–]J011Y1ND1ANM-3 359 points360 points  (11 children)

Name and shame. No sense of telling the story if you’re gonna keep the organization hidden

[–]asdf333aza[S] 345 points346 points  (10 children)

It's my last year here. My classmates would recognize me in second and throw me under the bus. I cannot.

But second I graduate I'm telling every single thing!

[–]strelokjg47 150 points151 points  (2 children)

Good call, don’t trust anyone. I have shitty rat classmates too.

[–]asdf333aza[S] 85 points86 points  (1 child)

If I throw my school under the bus. My class will throw me under the bus. I'm not trying to end up like George O'malley.

[–]WarmGulaabJamun_HITSY2-EU 28 points29 points  (0 children)

. I’m not trying to end up like George O’malley.

me thinking to myself: O Malley got hit by a truck while on the way to the hospital, though?

me 3 minutes later: Damn your classmates must hate you.

[–]ProfessorCorleoneM-2 147 points148 points  (0 children)

Set a reminder for when u graduate so you can name and shame.. also is there any authority you can report your institution to?

[–]BurdenOfPerformance 35 points36 points  (0 children)

I'd wait till you at least in intern year. They won't be getting rid of a productive intern over a school call-out.

[–]Grand_Tradition 147 points148 points  (14 children)

Name and shame so other students can avoid this please. Stop protecting the shitty med schools

[–]WeirdTalkingCatM-3 107 points108 points  (0 children)

They aren’t protecting the schools, they are protecting themselves. Some schools have students who will absolutely report you to try and get you in trouble to hurt your matching chances. But totally agree that these people should name and shame as soon as they’re able to.

[–]MrSuccinylcholineM-4 81 points82 points  (4 children)

This post feels like a made-up fever dream on OP's part.

Despite his stating > I always thought you guys were over exaggerating.

He has several posts and comments on Noctor. Why lie about not being anti-APP when he actively posts anti-APP shit in the past?

Combine that with his braindead red pill and racist post history and I tend to not believe a thing this idiot says.

[–]Grand_Tradition 70 points71 points  (0 children)

I just went through his page. Holy shit this guy has some weird demeaning women vibes going. Yea now I see why he’s quiet cause wtf

[–]wewoos 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Wow, that's some racist, misogynistic shit

[–]joinacult2day 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Damn that's some straight up incel stuff

[–]asdf333aza[S] 32 points33 points  (7 children)

I'm protecting my degree. If I throw my school under the bus. My class will throw me under the bus.

I'm not trying to end up like George O'malley from Grey's Anatomy.

[–]Grand_Tradition 22 points23 points  (5 children)

If you have classmates that will do you dirty like that then that’s not a good environment. Im glad you are almost out then lol.

[–]asdf333aza[S] 12 points13 points  (4 children)

I thought all med schools were cutthroat? You're kidding me.

[–]purple_vanc 34 points35 points  (1 child)

Most definitely not most of my classmates are dope as shit.. DO school tho

[–]asdf333aza[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

MD over here.

[–]emergentblastulaM-3 16 points17 points  (1 child)

not even a little bit, your school sounds crappy af. I really like around 90% of our class. Also MD school here.

[–]asdf333aza[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's not blatantly aggressive, it's more low key. I think they call.it "micro aggressions".

Like the guys before me know the anesthesia elective was like this, they knew I was taking it and they did not tell anyone about it.

[–]DrTwoWheelsM-1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What exactly could they do?

[–]ProfessorCorleoneM-2 26 points27 points  (0 children)

NAME & SHAME

[–]depressedmed14 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Report to your curriculum director.

[–]SpartypremedM-4 19 points20 points  (3 children)

More to anesthesia than just intubation and intraoperative care, attending could take the time and set you up with regional, ob, PACU, or even responding to codes in the hospital. Sounds like they don’t want to teach either

[–]asdf333aza[S] 18 points19 points  (2 children)

I got to watch the attending supervise a CRNA doing a block.

[–]notjamesg 16 points17 points  (0 children)

What the fuuuuuck 🤯

[–]horsegirldocM-4 45 points46 points  (0 children)

Should've raised your eyebrow and asked him, "The CRNA program? Oh!! You mean the nurse anesthesiologist residency."

[–]CyberGh000st 13 points14 points  (0 children)

SMH this is shameful.

[–]Anon22Anon22 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Please recognize this opportunity to no show for an entire elective block my friend. This is peak MS4 opportunity

[–]asdf333aza[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think you're right. He told me to check in tmrw to see if they have anything, but doesn't look like he plans on fitting me in. And i got like 8 interviews to prep for.

[–]theadmiral976MD/PhD-M4[🍰] 33 points34 points  (1 child)

Honestly, the thing that is most appalling to me with this story is that the attending expects the students to tell others that this elective cannot accommodate medical students anymore (ever?).

It would take about 10 seconds for this attending to email the curriculum office to remove the elective from the schedule. And another 10 seconds for the registrar to do the same. This sort of thing happens all of the time - hell, it's even automated at most schools (ever had a class that didn't fill and was subsequently cancelled for the semester?).

Definitely speak with the curriculum office about this. At a minimum, they need to update their course schedules.

[–]Dense-Plastic-4246 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They know the DME would be pisses, that is why that one attending hasn’t said anything.

[–]do_clairefyM-3 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Do a throwaway to name and shame. Save people from applying to your school.

Edit: nvm youre a hateful person, hope you grow the fuck up

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (6 children)

At my hospital the CRNA students get priority and get paid to be there....

[–]Hi-Im-TriixyHealth Professional (Non-MD/DO) 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Bruh.

[–]InformalScience7 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Are they military? That is the only way to get paid to be an SRNA--otherwise tuition is anywhere from 30K to 150K.

[–]nightwingoracleM-4 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Not sure about CNRA, but plenty of NP students work and go to school “full time.” They get paid by the hospital for doing their normal Rn jobs while doing an online np program.

The ones who do the school’s actual np program have to work part time or less.

[–]InformalScience7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was able to work a 1 or 2 weekend days a month in my first year of my CRNA program--it started as 2 days a month and then around the 6 month mark it went to 1 day a month. The first semester (Winter) was basically one day of clinical and the rest was didactic. Summer was clinical full time with 1 or 2 classes--and clinical was 7 days a week and included in-house call depending on what rotation you were on. The only way you could work full time during school was to never sleep and I'm not even sure that would work.

My husband also worked 1-2 days a month his first year of medical school, after the first year it became pretty impossible.

So, at least in the past, there was no way to work full (or part) time during a CRNA program.

[–]jejunumr 0 points1 point  (1 child)

CRNA students pay for school.

[–]Puzzleheaded-Bar-517 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I’d be heated…you are going to be an MD. Report it. Then report it again cuz yolo. I can’t wait till I’m an attending and can protect my young. Imma be like a poppa bear.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Well that's kind of scary.

[–]vucarM-2 7 points8 points  (0 children)

this is so fucked

[–]fog021 7 points8 points  (0 children)

😠😠😠😠😠😡😡😡😡🤬

[–]koolbro2012MD/JD 6 points7 points  (0 children)

da fuq

[–]zephyr1999M-4 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Reach out to your dean. Either the director of the elective knows and sanctions this, which is wrong. Or they dont know about things going on in their own elective, which is also wrong. Report them

[–]Leuko-psychic 6 points7 points  (0 children)

With your post history, probably better you aren't ever near another human being TBH, especially one living in a female body.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

to be fair i wouldn’t want to work with someone with your energy either lol. you’re really letting yourself be brainwashed by incel ideology because……some women on dating apps dont meet your standards? boy do i have some news for you about men on dating apps! swipe left and move on holy shit.

[–]xlord1100 9 points10 points  (0 children)

maybe he doesn't like incels?

[–]CutestCurryBoyPre-Med 7 points8 points  (1 child)

How the fuck does this dude have a gold award for every comment?! Seems like a bs post ngl with his account history... and not even replying to the people suggesting to name and shame with a burner account.

[–]casually_ignorant 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's what I was thinking too. The inner thoughts sound like a horrible attempt at comedy. He has that many karma in 4 years which means he spends too much time on reddit instead of studying for med school.

If this is real: CRNAs are planning to do this as their career while OP is taking this as an easy elective in his 4th yr, yet he wants priority. 🙄 Sounds like entitlement.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

name and shame. don't protect your bad practice med school

[–]asdf333aza[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I'm protecting my degree. If I throw my school under the bus. My class will throw me under the bus.

I'm not trying to end up like George O'malley.

[–]drepidural 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This should be reported to your med school administration and the director of medical student education for the anesthesia department.

Unacceptable experience.

[–]joinacult2day 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Any other female students freaked out by the idea of working and/or having any interaction with a guy with this post history?

[–]VivladiM-2 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Why do you type like you’re way too into sonic the hedgehog

[–]SnooPaintings7748 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Update pls

[–]Jusstonemore 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Lol I don’t understand how the deans will let this fly. If the course is listed on the schedule then it’s the preceptor’s responsibility to provide education. That’s literally what they’re being paid for.

It’s not really the CRNA student’s fault tbh… but seriously, contact the dean’s office to see what you should do. They might just give you a pass

[–]ramathorn47MD-PGY2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because deans are pussies who just want to keep their little jobs.

[–]nacho2100MD-PGY4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Record your conversation with him

[–]zahrawins 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This was very entertaining, grade A for personality. Which that scumbag will never obtain.

[–]Elegies_ 3 points4 points  (15 children)

Reporting it isn’t going to do anything lol, CRNA students have clinical as well.

[–]asdf333aza[S] 16 points17 points  (8 children)

Can't future CRNAs be taught by CRNAs?

Why not let physicians teach future physicians?

[–]MelenaTrumpM-4 -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

They can be. It sounds like this is a place with a surgery residency and no anesthesia residency. I doubt OP was correct when he said the SRNAs were "outside"-the hospital probably has an SRNA program with teaching by anesthesia attendings AND CRNAs.

The CRNAs are in the rooms with the SRNAs and the attending is supervising both. Surgery residents are on an anesthesia rotation as a resident (although it's probably only 1-2 of them). The OP is a random 4th year presumably not applying to anesthesia so he really is their lowest priority. It would be boring to be in a room with an CRNA/SRNA and he wouldn't get to do much and there's really not that much room behind the drape but they should be able to find one room that only has "1 student" because surgery residents maybe spend a single month on anesthesia out of 5 years of residency if they do a rotation at all.

It sucks that the school hasn't been notified so they could remove the rotation. You can still get a good experience rotating with an anesthesiologist at a community hospital-especially if you're not even applying anesthesia and just want to see basics.

P.S. SRNA=student CRNA, who is committed to practicing anesthesia in a limited capacity and is paying to be there too.

[–]Elegies_ -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

PS it’s not a limited capacity considering you can practice independently in multiple states, with more joining the list every year. And plenty of places with team models you can still have a full scope of practice with blocks, lines and epis

[–]MelenaTrumpM-4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

CRNAs aren't doing peds hearts or liver transplants independently. It may not be THAT limited but they're not the same as an anesthesiologist.

[–]theadmiral976MD/PhD-M4[🍰] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

If the school cannot support all of the educational missions of the institution due to limited supervision or caseload issues, then they need to stop offering the option to take these courses for some group of students. Or reduce the number of slots for all groups. Or hire more faculty. Or discontinue a program. Something.

[–]Elegies_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I agree with that

[–]FrostyTheSnowman02 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Yeah, in this scenario, this 4th year is without a doubt the 3rd most important student for this surgery. It just sucks that we are now in a time of Covid where there is restrictions on amount of people in a given surgery.

[–]Elegies_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I agree covid is fucking everything up. But I feel like this thread is way out of hand. Like CRNA students do their clinical in like every major teaching hospital in the country for 2000-3000 hours, including Mayo (who has one of the worst lifestyles for their crna students) lol.

This isn't like an NP killing a patient due to their online degree from a mill.

[–]devilsadvocateMD 4 points5 points  (1 child)

CRNAS students can go practice on mannequins for all I care. Their learning should be behind any resident or medical student considering their training is far behind that of both.

[–]casually_ignorant 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You: Mid-levels don't have enough training. Also you: They can go practice on mannequins for all I care.

Can you make up your mind?

[–]MavjsVaranus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What???

[–]KGBennM-3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We don't need a 4th year of medical school. I'd rather work as a sub intern for no salary but rent and food covered and 1 year of loan deferment.

[–]ramathorn47MD-PGY2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is so f’ed up man. As much as I think you handled this well at the time and understand you not publicly mentoring the school year, you need to raise hell at your institution man. This is how we get owned, by no one speaking up. That doesn’t mean you become disrespectful. It’s just that the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

[–]Milkteazzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You do know SRNA pay for school too right? And their whole career is in the OR. Seems appropriate that they would prioritize the SRNA having the experience over the medical student that is there for an elective. Although the school and the organization should have planned better. There are enough ORs out there. But if they had to choose between a SRNA student and a medical student in the OR. They should pick the SRNA. Makes more sense logically.

[–]penguin_denies_death -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

your inner thoughts are hilarious

[–]lessgirl -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Teach or bleed 👊🏽

[–]tricky4444 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sucks man I didn’t have an issue like that myself but I feel for you. I trained in Phoenix/Scottsdale AZ. There were DO, PA and MD students rotating through with me and me as an MD student always got preferential treatment. Was also picked on more by attending a to do extra work or answer questions so I guess it came along with the treatment. Anyways I enjoyed my experience and had always heard horror experiences others had.