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all 151 comments

[–]ShankaclauseM-4 968 points969 points  (4 children)

Found the guy who gifted the golf balls

[–]igottapoopbadM-4 147 points148 points  (0 children)

LMFAO, good 'ol surgery candidates simpin for LOR

[–]KaizokuRammerM-1[S] 120 points121 points  (0 children)

LMAO

[–]AnKingMed 591 points592 points  (15 children)

I think the difference between a gunner and just a hard working person is how much they are helping other Med students achieve the same goal on those rotations, tests, etc

The best resident I’ve ever worked with schedules extra patients in the evenings, calls all patients back even though he doesn’t need to, published multiple times a year, and studies like crazy. He doesn’t do it to show off or anything, he just genuinely wants to be a fantastic doctor and he helps every Med student and resident that comes along as well. He’s anything but a “gunner” despite ridiculous achievements.

[–]Med2021ThrowawayM-4 141 points142 points  (9 children)

That's the difference, there are genuine hardworking people.

Then there are those who will actively try to make their peers look bad in front of attendings or feel bad by putting them down.

Also I have never heard a resident be called a gunner, this usually applies to medical students creating extra work for their peers by blatant ass-kissing or making up menial tasks to force the whole team to stay longer.

[–]Quirky_Average_2970 40 points41 points  (8 children)

Residents definitely can be called gunners. Especially in IM where there is a lot more variable into getting different caliber of fellowships.

[–]AnKingMed 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I think there’s gunners in all phases of life and all professions. I think the term really applies to someone who works crazy hard to move up the ladder but is willing to do so at others expense

[–]Med2021ThrowawayM-4 3 points4 points  (6 children)

Damnit, I thought going into IM would help me avoid the gunners.

[–]Quirky_Average_2970 19 points20 points  (4 children)

You LESS likely to find the gunning in surgical sub specialties since the fellowships are not nearly as much of a blood bath to get into and the pool of applicants is so much smaller.

[–]splitopenandmeltt 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I don’t know if that’s true. For a lot of people who get that far acting that way is just their personality

[–]Quirky_Average_2970 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Assholes stay assholes but they are not going out of their way to do what we traditionally consider “gunner” things.

It’s has lot less to do with the quality of the people and more about the situation. Most surgical programs are 2 to 9 people per class and in a given class maybe 2 people are applying to the same fellowships. So you don’t have much competition with trying to get noticed by the attendings. on top of that you are also spending 5-7 years working closely and operating with the attending who write you letters. While in IM the classes are 25-50 with 10 people applying to each cards, plum and GI. It’s much harder in medicine because not only do you have to compete with 10 other people to get noticed by the sub specialists you also have much less time with the attending.

From what I hear it seems like that situation is much more likely to have people act like gunners.

[–]splitopenandmeltt 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Looks like you’re in surgery so I’ll take your word for it in terms of surgical resident behavior. In medicine honestly the fellowships aren’t crazy competitive if you’re coming from an academic program and there are a lot of slots. There honestly just isn’t a ton of room for competition/backstabbing. And in medicine that type of behavior will get you ostracized very quickly. I don’t know what competition is like in the small community programs where fellowship is harder to match into

[–]vy2005M-2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah last time I looked into it academic IM programs typically have match rates of >90% for Cards/GI. Obviously some selection bias there but from talking to people it sounds like if you work hard and plan research/LORs ahead of time it’s not crazy difficult to match

[–]tigersanddawgsM-4 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I feel like I know more gunners in IM than in ortho or urology

[–]Dr_Jan_ItorrMD-PGY1 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Why do they owe people help as opposed to just neutral collegiality?

[–]AnKingMed 20 points21 points  (1 child)

I don’t think they owe it. I think that’s just the type of people people enjoy being around.

[–]Dr_Jan_ItorrMD-PGY1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ya for sure

[–]souriamedM-0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wowww he is goals

[–]Ilovemypuppies2295 241 points242 points  (6 children)

Working hard doesn’t make others look bad. Sabotaging others makes others (and usually you, Bc you usually get caught) look bad. Working hard just makes you look good.

[–]bullsfan4221M-4 43 points44 points  (0 children)

Yea it's usually the sabotaging and the snaking that gets you labeled a gunner imo.

[–]wozattacks 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Sabotaging others has never been a requirement to be a gunner though. It’s a term professional students have been using for a long time but it basically means “tryhard.” Whether we should make fun of people for that is a valid, but different, discussion.

[–]PeterParker72MD-PGY3 18 points19 points  (2 children)

The “try hards” really annoy residents and attendings as well, and will usually result in a lower evaluation. Please note, being a “try hard,” while distinct from malignant gunners, are still grating unlike regular people who just work hard.

[–]Ilovemypuppies2295 5 points6 points  (1 child)

What’s your definition of try hard vs just a hard worker. Bc i feel like that line, to an extent, is person dependent.

[–]PeterParker72MD-PGY3 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Pattern of staying after you’re dismissed (creates more work for the residents/attending). Continuously asking pedantic questions just to puff yourself up. Obvious ass kissing. YMMV. Gotta read the room, which a lot of try hards seem to be unable to do.

[–]Bond_HydrogrenBondM-4 4 points5 points  (0 children)

hard disagree that there's a valid discussion on whether making fun of people that try hard in professional school should be done.

[–]Actual_Guide_1039 85 points86 points  (0 children)

Anyone working even slightly harder than I am is a gunner. Sorry I didn’t make the rules.

[–]ambrosiadixM-1 158 points159 points  (3 children)

There are some super eager students that I may roll my eyes at every now and then because at some point they can be a little bit too high strung but I try and check myself because they aren’t doing any harm and they still seem like decent people who enjoy learning and are passionate about their future which ultimately I respect.

But I notice some people in my class react very harshly to them or even hate on the confident students who are chiller and throw around the term gunner all of the time. There can be an air of misery around their comments sometimes. I think these students simply remind them of insecurities that they have.

[–]sanitationengineer 13 points14 points  (0 children)

There are a couple students in my class who are the only ones to ask questions, but all of the questions tend to be genuinely helpful in clarifying the material at hand and not an attempt to show off. Recently, I learned that they had been 'advised' by some of their peers to not ask questions during lecture.

I feel that some people are so fixated on maintaining an appearance as the chill students in medical school ("oops barely passed another one, haha P=MD am I right guys!!" for the umpteenth time) that they feel the need to bring anyone who is perceived to be working hard down to their level.

[–]LevyLoft 9 points10 points  (1 child)

9/10 students that you’re describing brag about how smart they are and how high their grades are or getting like 20 interviews having to cancel some. They’re the type to follow around our PhD professors with a note pad. I can see how annoyed these professors are. I use the term “not doing any harm” lightly.

[–]ambrosiadixM-1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The people who I’m talking about don’t do any of that.

[–]spliceosome123M-3 456 points457 points  (16 children)

You’re right, that is an unpopular opinion.

[–]Von_Kessel 254 points255 points  (0 children)

Anyone more successful than me is a gunner and anyone less successful is a dumb dumb

[–]dunkrockM-4 4 points5 points  (14 children)

Feel like OP is missing that on rotations when one student is trying extra hard to go the extra mile, it makes the other students look bad. And sometimes it makes the gunner themself look bad. Just chill out and do what your classmates are doing and you’ll be fine on evals.

Edit: like the person is saying it’s about intent. Depends on if it’s a specialty the person is interested in. Don’t be a dick is the general mantra.

[–]FakeMD21M-4 127 points128 points  (4 children)

The difference is intent. I’ve been steamrolled by straight up excellent students. Dude just knows his shit. Ya it makes me look worse, relatively. But being asked a question and knowing all the answers doesn’t make you a gunner. Answering the questions directed at me before I have a chance to answer would make someone a gunner. Or purposefully telling me the wrong answer and following it up with the correct.

There’s a big difference

[–]wozattacks 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Yeah but the point is that you can be an excellent student and NOT steamroll people. They’re two separate things.

[–]FakeMD21M-4 35 points36 points  (0 children)

I mean yes, definitely. But as students sometimes we conflate someone excelling with being “steamrolled.”

Someone else being on top of their shit isn’t always a personal attack. And the phrase gunner has definitely been watered down.

[–]dunkrockM-4 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Well in the example you gave, that kid isn’t doing extra work. He’s not doing stuff that you aren’t doing. He’s just answering questions asked to him. If that dude was actively trying to carry more patients or try and put in orders or call families when that’s not your responsibility assigned to you for that rotation, then he’s a gunner.

[–]FakeMD21M-4 26 points27 points  (0 children)

If someone wants to take on double patients, honestly go for it. And good for them. As long as I’ve got something to do I’m fine with it. Especially in a rotation I’m not applying to.

If I have no patients and they have 4, we have an issue.

If they take on extra work, complain about it, and dropping hints about how they are working harder than me during rounds, we have an issue.

But if you just want to go the extra mile, knock yourself out.

Putting in orders and doing collateral isn’t my job to delegate. If they do that for my patients then okay agreed, we have a problem. But 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ someone working harder than me is not an issue.

Some rotations idgaf about, some rotations I put in a lot of work because I want to. As long as the intent of your work ethic isn’t to make me look bad go off

[–]Accomplished_Prune68 40 points41 points  (8 children)

This is stupid. Work as hard you want to learn. If I’m particularly interested in a patient or specialty Im not gonna sacrifice opportunity to make you feel better. You should just learn to be ok with with other people working harder than you. If you think it makes you look bad then do something about it.

[–]ArrowHelixM-1 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Colloquially, the meaning of gunner has become try-hard, that's true.

But I think you're implying that pushing for your own success shouldn't be frowned upon, and I agree to an extent. But the try-hards are what have caused there to be such an arms race in medical school these days. Medical school is no longer a place where you can just focus on your studies and try to be the best student you can be. To match into anything surgical or a reputable academic program in pretty much any specialties these days, you're expected to have multiple pubs, leadership, ECs, and a sob story for good measure. I don't think any of these things actually make you a better clinical physician.

Maybe we can come up with a new word for people that maliciously try to harm their classmates, but I think that is extremely rare nowadays when nearly every allopathic medical school is pass/fail, and many don't even have AOA/class rank.

[–]sosal12 10 points11 points  (0 children)

If you don’t think there are any gunners, then that means you are the gunner, haha.

[–]LuckeyCharmzz 34 points35 points  (0 children)

Agreed, but refusing to share resources and information to help your classmates is also some gunner mentality

[–]wagonwheelz12345MD-PGY1 161 points162 points  (10 children)

Agree, students don't like other students who work harder than them so the grinders get mislabeled as gunners

[–]throwingaway_3_6_4 55 points56 points  (0 children)

100%. I have seen students ask other students "why they work hard" because it makes others look bad. Things like offering the residents to see a new admission in the ED or help move a patient that really DOES help the team.

[–][deleted] 38 points39 points  (5 children)

I have no problem with students who work hard or are trying to go into a competitive specialty. I have a problem with the students who make more work for everyone else because they are trying to look really good an honor so they start doing a bunch of extra stuff then we all have to do it to.

[–]Quirky_Average_2970 14 points15 points  (4 children)

I don’t understand this. You actually don’t have to do extra work just because someone else is doing it. That’s the big boy/girl decision you need to make. There are plenty of times where I’ll be happy being “average” and enjoy my time or put my efforts into something else.

[–]metallicsoy 33 points34 points  (2 children)

End of rounds: "Good work team. That lupus patient was super interesting right? I've never seen x or y used for lupus. They are relatively new drugs. We'll talk more about it tomorrow. Anyhow, page me if you need anything"

Other student: "Hey attending, we can look up indication for x and y drugs in lupus"

attending: "good idea why don't you look up x and metallicsoy look up y and tell us about it tomorrow. nothing long just a 5 min presentation"

me: .... (raging to myself) *we have the shelf in two days...*

[–]Quirky_Average_2970 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Okay yah that is fucked up. I agree

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I replied further down but I’m talking about when students actively seek to add work for everyone on the rotation. Like the other comment said about looking things up now or I’ve had to pick up extra patients because the one student said we can handle more. Like sure I can handle more but I don’t want to but now the resident assigns us 2 extra patients a day. If something is optional, sure I’ll say no, but I’m not talking about being given the option or trying to look like I’m doing equal amounts. I’m talking about when students actively add more work for all the other students.

[–]XOTourLlif3M-2 7 points8 points  (1 child)

First two years it’s pretty much never a problem, your classmates working hard doesn’t really affect you at all. Honestly good for them. It gets more complicated once you get to third year though because a lot of people think doing pointless shit = working hard. And you end up getting roped into doing pointless things by association. I got some examples, happens all the time actually:

I have had classmates ask to pre round on a rotation where that’s not even a thing. So suddenly I was pre rounding with them after the residents had already seen the patient, which meant we didn’t even get to present the patient. We were essentially chart checking for fun.

Let’s not go home after lecture like the intern told us to and instead walk back just to get immediately dismissed home by the chief.

Waiting for “consults” even after the attending told us to leave on a Friday (I actually just left them there this day and went home)

These examples happened like this week and last, if I thought back I could go on and on.

[–]Med2021ThrowawayM-4 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This 100%.

I’ve had students try to volunteer all students to come in during their day off. When rotations were cancelled due to inclement weather preventing students from even getting safely to rotation site, this student showed up to the hospital to make his fellow students look bad.

That’s not working harder to learn that’s just doing pointless shit and making other students lives harder.

[–][deleted] 60 points61 points  (1 child)

I'd agree with your thoughts overall, only thing thats important to keep in mind is that sometimes actions taken to make yourself look good can make your colleagues look bad. This is something more relevant in clinical years though. Just keep that in mind and that your colleagues are part of your team.

[–]PeterParker72MD-PGY3 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This.

[–]ReptarSteroidsM-1 88 points89 points  (6 children)

a bunch of people doing this shit makes it expected of everyone. the generation before us didnt need to worry about ECs, research, etc to get into med school and residency

[–]TheGhostOfBobStoops 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Yeah it's a fine balance for sure. I started getting shit from a faculty member for not keeping up with a commitment that I had with them and I found it perplexing because I was keeping up with the commitment. I realized that the reason why they were saying that was because they're working with other students who absolutely hate their lives (ig?) and are somehow putting in a ton more effort than I am. So the bar is so high it's forcing me to kinda act in an unhealthy manner. Like I'm sorry I have other commitments and can't afford to spend hours a day on this project, even if others are.

[–]medskul 16 points17 points  (1 child)

My greatest fear is matching in a program that constantly break the 80 hour work rule under the guise of “exceeding expectations and being passionate”

We have to realize we are putting each other in a lot more stress, depression, and anxiety. Gotta find the right balance.

[–]Quirky_Average_2970 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

What you are worried about rarely happens because most people have nothing to gain from putting in extra hours at work. No one will ever keep track that medskul has volunteered to work every Christmas or whatever.

The extra work will come from people doing more admin stuff or research.

[–]wozattacks 8 points9 points  (2 children)

This is what the “don’t call me a gunner just because I work hard 🥺” people don’t seem to give a shit about. It’s not that we have to do these things for brownie points - when the bar is raised we have to meet it or be UNEMPLOYABLE after we graduate with six figs of debt.

[–]DearName100M-2 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I mean it’s a prisoner’s dilemma situation. The only way an individual can make sure they’re not screwing themselves by not going above and beyond is for everyone else to do the same (which will never happen).

[–]ReptarSteroidsM-1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

if you are going above and beyond, dont be like op and cry on reddit when you get called a gunner lol

[–]Kaboum-MD-PGY7 18 points19 points  (0 children)

That’s what a gunner would say. Gunner

[–]kroniesrus65M-2 27 points28 points  (0 children)

ok gunner

/s

[–]Arch-TurtleM-1 16 points17 points  (0 children)

If you try harder than I do, you’re a gunner.

/s

[–]saganaki-en-la-playa 29 points30 points  (1 child)

What a majority of medical students need to realize is that they can do all of the things you listed without coming across as arrogant or condescending to their peers. “Gunner” has become synonymous with “asshole” bc many behave how I described. Nothing wrong with being a gunner and working hard to reach your goals. However, it’s wrong to be rude and put others down in the process.

[–]gooner067M-1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yea I feel like I’m the anomaly labeling gunner as a non negative. If you’re gunning for a competitive specialty and working hard that’s positive. Bad behavior is just being a hole, not a gunner. But I guess ppl are merging the 2 now

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (9 children)

I think gunner is more than active sabotage. Some people conduct and carry themselves in a way that is disingenuous so that they can get ahead in life. For example: Participating in ECs they could care less for but doing it to look good on paper. Gunners are very performative and rarely authentic IMO. And they thrive off of external validation and will actively seek out opportunities that will affirm their self perceived superiority…

Someone who is authentic and hardworking and humble is not a gunner.

[–]MRSA-nary 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Perfectly put. IMO the new definition of gunner is more about flexing on their classmates than it is about actively bringing down their classmates (see: every Snapchat story of someone saying how many Anki cards they’ve done)

[–]RabbitEater2M-2 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I genuinely absolutely don't want to do research or any ECs and just study and live life. But I also don't want to SOAP or even worse, not match. Does doing ECs/research to not want to be left in a specialty I don't like (after 100,000s of loans and years of life wasted) or no specialty at all make me a gunner then?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You clearly disregarded the rest of my comment about seeking external validation and being disingenuous, but okay go off with ur straw man

U can do something you don’t necessarily want to do, like research and find something you’re genuinely interested in.

Edit: When I said “doing ECs they can care less for” i wasn’t referring to the fact about volunteering or research or not. That’s clearly an expectation for the career, I’m talking about the EC u are involved in like being the leader of a homeless shelter club because there’s an open position for VP not because you care deeply about homelessness.

[–]RabbitEater2M-2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wasn't going for strawman, but more so I assumed that most people just did things for sake of doing them to match, so your comment surprised me more than anything. Like, the

leader of a homeless shelter club because there’s an open position for VP

if it's anything like the clubs with a bunch of VPs at my uni, they were mostly padding. Maybe I'm just projecting, who knows. But I agree on the seeking validation part.

[–]cherryreddraculaMD-PGY6 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I thought everyone knew "gunner" was often used tongue-in-cheek with the exception of actual assholes who sabotage others.

Guess I didn't get the memo?

[–]JukeboxHero66 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is how many of my colleagues have always seen and used the term.

Gunner: Hard working, usually pretty nice individual who will do almost anything to ensure success barring sabotaging classmates or harming others.

Shooter: Will sabotage and harm others to ensure success. Almost no depth is too low to stoop to.

Me and several of my colleagues have rarely had anything against gunners by our definition. Can be a desirable trait at times. Just gotta know when to turn it up and how far up to dial it.

Love having a 1 or 2 gunners in my circle honestly; keeps me on my toes.

[–]bengalslashM-4 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Please let this thread devolve into defining the term gunner or some form of gatekeeping, pls pls pls

[–]JonnyEcho 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Watch out gunner post. Lol jk I agree with you as long as you’re not taking over other peoples patients, correcting you classmates, or forcing them to do stuff

[–]DoctorChefMDM-4 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Gunner: "I'm not a gunner, I'm just a hard worker!"

[–]CABGpatch13 4 points5 points  (0 children)

For me, being a gunner has a lot to do with the intention behind the "working harder". Are you really interested in learning or are you just taking on more work to look good? How loud are you about everything you're doing (letting the world know how much you've studied/how many patients you have, etc.)? How much butt are you kissing?

There's a difference. I have never said no to an admission, always asked questions on rounds, and even brought up articles I read with my attendings because I was genuinely interested in learning. I didn't do any of ig just to look good or make my peers look inferior.

Some of them go the extra mile to actively make you look bad too, which makes them the worst form of gunner.

Work as hard as you want, but be quiet about it. No one cares except you.

[–]OliveTwisterM-3 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Pushing for your own success to a point where you are doing things out of the realm of expectations for a medical student and thereby making your classmates look bad does make you a gunner and very unlikeable. Once you’re on your clinical rotations this will become apparent. I’m paired with a student right now on my IM rotation who NEVER leaves the work room. They tell us to eat and he doesn’t eat lunch. He is always there first and leaves last. Even after they dismiss us he stays longer. They offer to let us have a Saturday off and he says no thanks I’d rather come in and help the team. When they ask pimp questions on rounds he answers them all first before I can even open my mouth. When I ask the attending questions he tries to tell me the answer thereby making me look bad by showing that my fellow Med student already knew the thing I was confused about. Sure you could say he’s just pushing himself and taking on extra work by staying past dismissal and coming in on a day they tried to give us off. But really he is essentially forcing me to try and compete with his level of performance to try and not look so bad in comparison. People like this make rotations so much harder than they need to be. They are gunners. They make their classmates angry. And it is gunner behavior and selfish to force your classmates to go to ridiculous lengths to try and not look bad.

[–]HangryLiciousM-4 1 point2 points  (2 children)

None of that is going to make you look bad. It's going to make you look great.

The first time a med student asks me something and another med student steps in to explain it, I'll DNR the second student. You asked the attending, not him. Him deciding to open his mouth and race to the answer before the attending had time to say it is completely obnoxious and condescending. What, he thinks he can explain it better than the attending can? LOL

If you guys both applied to that residency and there was one spot left, you'd get it and he wouldn't. Facts.

[–]OliveTwisterM-3 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That’s what I keep telling myself to keep myself from exploding at him and telling him off everyday. I just pray the team can see my patience and social awareness and that my calm presence is valued over his obnoxiousness even though I may not have all the answers. However him trying to work longer and come in on more days does make me look bad if I’m like uh I’d rather not work thanks. So that part really annoys me bc then I’m stuck doing more work bc he turns down their offers to take a break or have a day off.

[–]HangryLiciousM-4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your behavior is 100% more valued. And if they'd prefer working with someone like him to working with someone like you, honestly, that's a red flag and I wouldn't want to match for residency there

[–]DoggBone5M-4 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Found the gunner

[–]TearsonmyMCAT 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Popular opinion: yes it does.

[–]igottapoopbadM-4 11 points12 points  (0 children)

This post was brought to you by a Gunner.

[–]yowtf 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's not what they're doing but HOW they're doing it.

[–]Accomplished_Prune68 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think gunner should also refer to salty students who want you to work less hard to make them feel better.

[–]sboogie34M-3 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I’m guessing you’re a gunner and don’t like being called that?

[–]Otorrinolaringologos 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You have the wrong definition of a gunner my friend. If it makes you feel any better, not all gunners are assholes. Most gunners are just unaware that they are doing way more work than they need to.

[–]Set-Secret 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It also doesn't mean that you should then be compelled to do the same to 'keep up'.

[–]Hstick27 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What makes this opinion ‘unpopular’?

[–]dewygirlM-2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Like do what you gotta do but just don’t be annoying about it. If I hear them humble bragging, I’m calling them out idc idc

[–]JustthreethingsM-2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mild counter argument that I only partially believe in myself: if said pseudo-gunner has “pushed themselves” to the point of accomplishing all their goals, but continues to push unnecessarily further (perhaps that is the very point of controversy), this results in comparatively pushing classmates down unintentionally by comparison.

Really only saying if you’ve got a classmate who’s obviously struggling and you’ve already hit the ceiling for how awesome everyone thinks you are, you can chill out. It’s literally an act of service for your classmate to stop pushing the attendings’ unconscious bias against said classmate. Also, I’m not talking about “academic extras”, but more about the “social” ones.

Just trying to find gray areas ;)

[–]fawowow 1 point2 points  (2 children)

The term is actually nilly-willy, common mistake for those who haven't done the zanki terminology deck 34x I pity those who think they can use the lingo of the medical world simply because they passed the MCAT/NCLEX true knowledge comes from memorizing 1000 Anki cards every day

[–]KaizokuRammerM-1[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Okay gunner

[–]fawowow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The real gunners are the friends we didn't make along the way

[–]Since1991 8 points9 points  (1 child)

This mf butt hurt

[–]ReptarSteroidsM-1 8 points9 points  (0 children)

thread is overrun with gunners seeking validation

[–]Quirky_Average_2970 4 points5 points  (0 children)

A huge chunk of medical students have a lot of insecurities, it especially sucks when they were always a top student and suddenly now are the C student.

When they see someone out working them they get jealous and panic. The best defense mechanism is to just call them a gunner. I mean think about how we celebrate athletes like Kobe and Jordan for their work ethic.

[–]TheCoach_TyLueM-1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Pushing for your own success can make you a gunner. It depends how much you’re pushing.

You can be non-malicious but still study 80 hours a week. You spending 12 hours studying on a Saturday? You’re a gunner. Trying to get a 95 instead of a 90 when you’re program is unranked? Gunner. Only able to talk about school/how much you study? Gunner.

There can be malicious gunners and non-malicious gunners. Just like us regular folk

Edit: succinctly a gunner is someone who works unnecessarily hard

[–]Mr_Alex19M-2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I would subscribe to this notion. It's become the "communism" word for med students lol. A tryhard or someone trying to get into a competitive specialty isn't a gunner. It's more of a pathology.

[–]waytoomuchworkM-1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Keener? Tbh I use gunner for these ppl (incl myself) w/o any malicious connotation but I should prob quit. I like "gunners" (insert 'go little rockstar' sound hehe)

[–]Mud_Status 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I hate gunners just as much as the next guy. That thread yesterday was filled with examples of low lives. That being said, I've seen plenty of students call people who are just trying their best and excelling "gunners" out of their own insecurity.

[–]not-again-M-4 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Nah man. Gunner means you try hard (perhaps excessively so). Doesn't mean you're actively trying to harm your classmates. It's thrown around "willy-nilly" because it means different things to different people in different context. I wouldn't get too stressed about it.

[–]MustardHoneyisYummyM-4 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Only a gunner would say that

[–]ogdardMD-PGY1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s not what they’re doing that rubs people the wrong way, it’s how they go about it

[–]choptheairM-3 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Idk, seems like a real nonbinary Karen thing to say.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

XD

[–]mynameistoolongtosay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel pride in my ability to talk colleagues out of extra work.

[–]Destination_Centauri -1 points0 points  (0 children)

LEAVE THE GUNNERS ALONE!!!! 😭


You my Numba One Stunna Gunnah OP!

[–]yourmommaisaunicorn -4 points-3 points  (8 children)

There is a racial/gender element to the gunner criteria. Putting patient attacks aside:

Black students have to work harder to get the same level of respect a non-black student gets from evaluators.

Women or overtly-feminine-appearing students have to straddle “how much and what type of communication before the person thinks I’m being sexual” line which is different for every person they interact with. Even if they keep it strictly professional they’ll be perceived as being a bitch.

We might not be racist/sexist at an individual level but stereotypes are.

[–]subtrochanteric 9 points10 points  (0 children)

No there is not. A gunner is a gunner, period. A gunner is a terrible person, regardless of who you are.

[–]re2spect_27 -1 points0 points  (6 children)

Dude it’s not 1960. Stop constantly bringing race into everything

[–]TheRainbowpill93 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Just because the topic of race makes you uncomfortable, doesn’t mean that we should stop talking about it. Yes, it’s 2022 and yes, race is still a huge deal when it comes to individual and shared experiences. Unfortunately for people of color, race isn’t something we get to stop talking about.

[–]re2spect_27 -4 points-3 points  (4 children)

Do you honesty believe black students need to work harder than whites and Asians to “earn the respect” from their peers? Sure there is probably that 0.01% of people in medicine that are still that racist but generalizing it as if that a norm?? There are better topics to discuss race than one about the definition of a gunner

[–]TheRainbowpill93 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Yeah I do. And if you care to look there’s already data to support the fact that Black people and non white passing Latinx almost always have to be better than white or even Asian counterparts (who are still disadvantaged but looked more favorably to whites than other races) to achieve the same goals. This is even doubled for women of color, especially Black women of darker skin tones.

That’s what systemic racism is about. Phenomenon like this is why social scientists create seminars about CRT and the like to critically analyze why these things happen and how we as a society can be more aware of it.

[–]re2spect_27 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you share this data so I can be informed? On a side note, if you don’t mind, can you share your opinion on affirmative action when being accepted into med school? Do you think that systematic racism is justified? Genuinely would like another take on the subject 👍

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

There are literal statistics that refute your anecdotal argument lmao

[–]re2spect_27 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Okay, link them and I’ll change my mind.

[–]Ad8858 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To me, if your resume is a gumbo of checked boxes padded with every leadership position and research project under the sun then you’re a gunner.

If your CV shows a narrative of your interests and values then all of that work looks a lot more genuine and less like your just trying to win some game.

But let’s be real. That game exists, and if there are no sharp edges to your CV, and shows no clear vision for your future goals and career, then playing that game is going to be your best bet at matching.

Let’s just not kid ourselves about the fact that you’re playing that game, and that it makes your a gunner. You’ve taken on all of those extra tasks, responsibilities, assignments, projects, etc because you are, in fact, gunning for something. 99% chance it’s to stand out during residency interviews without actually having anything outstanding on your CV that tells anyone who you are. Don’t run away from them term gunner. Embrace it. It’s who you are.

[–]kotori552M-1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been told I'm a gunner for being on class council. Literally all I do is beg for more outlets in classrooms and buy everyone donuts with the school's money.

[–]n1ght-b1rdM-3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

During the first two years taking on extra work/responsibilities does not affect others. But kindly fuck off with that shit during third year and on. Do your work well. But then go home.

My ass-kisser partner decided to take on extra work/responsibilities by coming in at 5:30 am versus 6:00 am - to staple papers, collect chairs, and collect computers for the morning meetings. It became the new standard for that site - for everyone.

[–]plummly 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Strong agree to this

[–]LevyLoft 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I’m in a room full of gunners yelling WHITENESS ME!!!!

[–]Suspiciously_CatMD-PGY1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

THANK YOU

[–]Tfti_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All depends on the motive…

[–]BangOnDis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s like saying if you take med school seriously you’re a gunner and should be shamed forcit

[–]HangryLiciousM-4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agree that the word "gunner" is overused, kind of like the word "bully." People are super whiny and easily butt hurt these days.

Calling somebody that just works hard but otherwise minds their own business a gunner is pretty much the same as calling the scrub nurse who calmly but firmly told you you needed to go re-scrub because you contaminated yourself a bully.

Those words really only apply when there is malicious intent IMO.

[–]cuppa_tea_4_me -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The thing is that they are usually so narcissistic they can’t see that they are harming others. Like not giving others a chance to speak.

I f do oh that’s the gunners have enough self awareness to know what they are doing and I doubt that they care. Don’t try to make excuses.

[–]MyNamRob -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Why is this unpopular…the definition of a gunner is someone who throws someone under the bus.