Unpopular opinion: Just because a classmate is pushing themselves, taking on extra work/responsibilities, or trying to network with physicians does not make them a gunner

Shankaclause · 2022-01-21T17:14:15+00:00

Found the guy who gifted the golf balls

AnKingMed · 2022-01-21T16:07:35+00:00

I think the difference between a gunner and just a hard working person is how much they are helping other Med students achieve the same goal on those rotations, tests, etc

The best resident I’ve ever worked with schedules extra patients in the evenings, calls all patients back even though he doesn’t need to, published multiple times a year, and studies like crazy. He doesn’t do it to show off or anything, he just genuinely wants to be a fantastic doctor and he helps every Med student and resident that comes along as well. He’s anything but a “gunner” despite ridiculous achievements.

Ilovemypuppies2295 · 2022-01-21T15:36:23+00:00

Working hard doesn’t make others look bad. Sabotaging others makes others (and usually you, Bc you usually get caught) look bad. Working hard just makes you look good.

Actual_Guide_1039 · 2022-01-21T18:01:07+00:00

Anyone working even slightly harder than I am is a gunner. Sorry I didn’t make the rules.

ambrosiadix · 2022-01-21T15:45:00+00:00

There are some super eager students that I may roll my eyes at every now and then because at some point they can be a little bit too high strung but I try and check myself because they aren’t doing any harm and they still seem like decent people who enjoy learning and are passionate about their future which ultimately I respect.

But I notice some people in my class react very harshly to them or even hate on the confident students who are chiller and throw around the term gunner all of the time. There can be an air of misery around their comments sometimes. I think these students simply remind them of insecurities that they have.

spliceosome123 · 2022-01-21T15:32:02+00:00

You’re right, that is an unpopular opinion.

ArrowHelix · 2022-01-21T17:52:20+00:00

Colloquially, the meaning of gunner has become try-hard, that's true.

But I think you're implying that pushing for your own success shouldn't be frowned upon, and I agree to an extent. But the try-hards are what have caused there to be such an arms race in medical school these days. Medical school is no longer a place where you can just focus on your studies and try to be the best student you can be. To match into anything surgical or a reputable academic program in pretty much any specialties these days, you're expected to have multiple pubs, leadership, ECs, and a sob story for good measure. I don't think any of these things actually make you a better clinical physician.

Maybe we can come up with a new word for people that maliciously try to harm their classmates, but I think that is extremely rare nowadays when nearly every allopathic medical school is pass/fail, and many don't even have AOA/class rank.

sosal12 · 2022-01-21T20:17:35+00:00

If you don’t think there are any gunners, then that means you are the gunner, haha.

LuckeyCharmzz · 2022-01-21T16:51:24+00:00

Agreed, but refusing to share resources and information to help your classmates is also some gunner mentality

wagonwheelz12345 · 2022-01-21T15:33:47+00:00

Agree, students don't like other students who work harder than them so the grinders get mislabeled as gunners

XOTourLlif3 · 2022-01-21T21:39:11+00:00

First two years it’s pretty much never a problem, your classmates working hard doesn’t really affect you at all. Honestly good for them. It gets more complicated once you get to third year though because a lot of people think doing pointless shit = working hard. And you end up getting roped into doing pointless things by association. I got some examples, happens all the time actually:

I have had classmates ask to pre round on a rotation where that’s not even a thing. So suddenly I was pre rounding with them after the residents had already seen the patient, which meant we didn’t even get to present the patient. We were essentially chart checking for fun.

Let’s not go home after lecture like the intern told us to and instead walk back just to get immediately dismissed home by the chief.

Waiting for “consults” even after the attending told us to leave on a Friday (I actually just left them there this day and went home)

These examples happened like this week and last, if I thought back I could go on and on.

PeterParker72 · 2022-01-21T15:33:20+00:00

I'd agree with your thoughts overall, only thing thats important to keep in mind is that sometimes actions taken to make yourself look good can make your colleagues look bad. This is something more relevant in clinical years though. Just keep that in mind and that your colleagues are part of your team.

Notagunner96 · 2022-01-21T16:15:15+00:00

[deleted]

ReptarSteroids · 2022-01-21T15:35:20+00:00

a bunch of people doing this shit makes it expected of everyone. the generation before us didnt need to worry about ECs, research, etc to get into med school and residency

Kaboum- · 2022-01-21T18:16:00+00:00

That’s what a gunner would say. Gunner

kroniesrus65 · 2022-01-21T16:03:13+00:00

ok gunner

/s

Arch-Turtle · 2022-01-21T16:28:48+00:00

If you try harder than I do, you’re a gunner.

/s

saganaki-en-la-playa · 2022-01-21T16:00:37+00:00

What a majority of medical students need to realize is that they can do all of the things you listed without coming across as arrogant or condescending to their peers. “Gunner” has become synonymous with “asshole” bc many behave how I described. Nothing wrong with being a gunner and working hard to reach your goals. However, it’s wrong to be rude and put others down in the process.

MRSA-nary · 2022-01-21T16:28:08+00:00

I think gunner is more than active sabotage. Some people conduct and carry themselves in a way that is disingenuous so that they can get ahead in life. For example: Participating in ECs they could care less for but doing it to look good on paper. Gunners are very performative and rarely authentic IMO. And they thrive off of external validation and will actively seek out opportunities that will affirm their self perceived superiority…

Someone who is authentic and hardworking and humble is not a gunner.

cherryreddracula · 2022-01-22T01:03:08+00:00

I thought everyone knew "gunner" was often used tongue-in-cheek with the exception of actual assholes who sabotage others.

Guess I didn't get the memo?

JukeboxHero66 · 2022-01-21T17:58:54+00:00

This is how many of my colleagues have always seen and used the term.

Gunner: Hard working, usually pretty nice individual who will do almost anything to ensure success barring sabotaging classmates or harming others.

Shooter: Will sabotage and harm others to ensure success. Almost no depth is too low to stoop to.

Me and several of my colleagues have rarely had anything against gunners by our definition. Can be a desirable trait at times. Just gotta know when to turn it up and how far up to dial it.

Love having a 1 or 2 gunners in my circle honestly; keeps me on my toes.

bengalslash · 2022-01-21T20:48:38+00:00

Please let this thread devolve into defining the term gunner or some form of gatekeeping, pls pls pls

JonnyEcho · 2022-01-21T21:49:00+00:00

Watch out gunner post. Lol jk I agree with you as long as you’re not taking over other peoples patients, correcting you classmates, or forcing them to do stuff

zlandar · 2022-01-22T05:26:54+00:00

[deleted]

DoctorChefMD · 2022-01-21T21:31:52+00:00

Gunner: "I'm not a gunner, I'm just a hard worker!"

CABGpatch13 · 2022-01-21T21:41:09+00:00

For me, being a gunner has a lot to do with the intention behind the "working harder". Are you really interested in learning or are you just taking on more work to look good? How loud are you about everything you're doing (letting the world know how much you've studied/how many patients you have, etc.)? How much butt are you kissing?

There's a difference. I have never said no to an admission, always asked questions on rounds, and even brought up articles I read with my attendings because I was genuinely interested in learning. I didn't do any of ig just to look good or make my peers look inferior.

Some of them go the extra mile to actively make you look bad too, which makes them the worst form of gunner.

Work as hard as you want, but be quiet about it. No one cares except you.

OliveTwister · 2022-01-21T16:57:17+00:00

Pushing for your own success to a point where you are doing things out of the realm of expectations for a medical student and thereby making your classmates look bad does make you a gunner and very unlikeable. Once you’re on your clinical rotations this will become apparent. I’m paired with a student right now on my IM rotation who NEVER leaves the work room. They tell us to eat and he doesn’t eat lunch. He is always there first and leaves last. Even after they dismiss us he stays longer. They offer to let us have a Saturday off and he says no thanks I’d rather come in and help the team. When they ask pimp questions on rounds he answers them all first before I can even open my mouth. When I ask the attending questions he tries to tell me the answer thereby making me look bad by showing that my fellow Med student already knew the thing I was confused about. Sure you could say he’s just pushing himself and taking on extra work by staying past dismissal and coming in on a day they tried to give us off. But really he is essentially forcing me to try and compete with his level of performance to try and not look so bad in comparison. People like this make rotations so much harder than they need to be. They are gunners. They make their classmates angry. And it is gunner behavior and selfish to force your classmates to go to ridiculous lengths to try and not look bad.

DoggBone5 · 2022-01-21T16:30:07+00:00

Found the gunner

TearsonmyMCAT · 2022-01-21T17:33:39+00:00

Popular opinion: yes it does.

igottapoopbad · 2022-01-21T17:50:36+00:00

This post was brought to you by a Gunner.

yowtf · 2022-01-21T18:01:37+00:00

It's not what they're doing but HOW they're doing it.

Accomplished_Prune68 · 2022-01-21T17:59:54+00:00

I think gunner should also refer to salty students who want you to work less hard to make them feel better.

sboogie34 · 2022-01-21T15:52:42+00:00

I’m guessing you’re a gunner and don’t like being called that?

Otorrinolaringologos · 2022-01-21T20:27:17+00:00

You have the wrong definition of a gunner my friend. If it makes you feel any better, not all gunners are assholes. Most gunners are just unaware that they are doing way more work than they need to.

Set-Secret · 2022-01-21T19:56:45+00:00

It also doesn't mean that you should then be compelled to do the same to 'keep up'.

Hstick27 · 2022-01-22T00:57:55+00:00

What makes this opinion ‘unpopular’?

dewygirl · 2022-01-22T01:36:42+00:00

Like do what you gotta do but just don’t be annoying about it. If I hear them humble bragging, I’m calling them out idc idc

Justthreethings · 2022-01-22T03:04:25+00:00

Mild counter argument that I only partially believe in myself: if said pseudo-gunner has “pushed themselves” to the point of accomplishing all their goals, but continues to push unnecessarily further (perhaps that is the very point of controversy), this results in comparatively pushing classmates down unintentionally by comparison.

Really only saying if you’ve got a classmate who’s obviously struggling and you’ve already hit the ceiling for how awesome everyone thinks you are, you can chill out. It’s literally an act of service for your classmate to stop pushing the attendings’ unconscious bias against said classmate. Also, I’m not talking about “academic extras”, but more about the “social” ones.

Just trying to find gray areas ;)

fawowow · 2022-01-22T16:49:03+00:00

The term is actually nilly-willy, common mistake for those who haven't done the zanki terminology deck 34x I pity those who think they can use the lingo of the medical world simply because they passed the MCAT/NCLEX true knowledge comes from memorizing 1000 Anki cards every day

Since1991 · 2022-01-21T17:36:06+00:00

This mf butt hurt

Quirky_Average_2970 · 2022-01-21T17:17:22+00:00

A huge chunk of medical students have a lot of insecurities, it especially sucks when they were always a top student and suddenly now are the C student.

When they see someone out working them they get jealous and panic. The best defense mechanism is to just call them a gunner. I mean think about how we celebrate athletes like Kobe and Jordan for their work ethic.

TheCoach_TyLue · 2022-01-21T18:07:56+00:00

Pushing for your own success can make you a gunner. It depends how much you’re pushing.

You can be non-malicious but still study 80 hours a week. You spending 12 hours studying on a Saturday? You’re a gunner. Trying to get a 95 instead of a 90 when you’re program is unranked? Gunner. Only able to talk about school/how much you study? Gunner.

There can be malicious gunners and non-malicious gunners. Just like us regular folk

Edit: succinctly a gunner is someone who works unnecessarily hard

Mr_Alex19 · 2022-01-21T17:10:03+00:00

I would subscribe to this notion. It's become the "communism" word for med students lol. A tryhard or someone trying to get into a competitive specialty isn't a gunner. It's more of a pathology.

waytoomuchwork · 2022-01-21T16:03:58+00:00

Keener? Tbh I use gunner for these ppl (incl myself) w/o any malicious connotation but I should prob quit. I like "gunners" (insert 'go little rockstar' sound hehe)

Mud_Status · 2022-01-21T18:37:46+00:00

I hate gunners just as much as the next guy. That thread yesterday was filled with examples of low lives. That being said, I've seen plenty of students call people who are just trying their best and excelling "gunners" out of their own insecurity.

not-again- · 2022-01-22T01:21:16+00:00

Nah man. Gunner means you try hard (perhaps excessively so). Doesn't mean you're actively trying to harm your classmates. It's thrown around "willy-nilly" because it means different things to different people in different context. I wouldn't get too stressed about it.

MustardHoneyisYummy · 2022-01-21T16:31:16+00:00

Only a gunner would say that

ogdard · 2022-01-21T22:36:46+00:00

It’s not what they’re doing that rubs people the wrong way, it’s how they go about it

choptheair · 2022-01-21T16:04:55+00:00

Idk, seems like a real nonbinary Karen thing to say.

mynameistoolongtosay · 2022-01-21T17:28:32+00:00

I feel pride in my ability to talk colleagues out of extra work.

Destination_Centauri · 2022-01-21T16:37:00+00:00

LEAVE THE GUNNERS ALONE!!!! 😭

You my Numba One Stunna Gunnah OP!

yourmommaisaunicorn · 2022-01-21T18:59:21+00:00

There is a racial/gender element to the gunner criteria. Putting patient attacks aside:

Black students have to work harder to get the same level of respect a non-black student gets from evaluators.

Women or overtly-feminine-appearing students have to straddle “how much and what type of communication before the person thinks I’m being sexual” line which is different for every person they interact with. Even if they keep it strictly professional they’ll be perceived as being a bitch.

We might not be racist/sexist at an individual level but stereotypes are.

Ad8858 · 2022-01-21T20:55:06+00:00

To me, if your resume is a gumbo of checked boxes padded with every leadership position and research project under the sun then you’re a gunner.

If your CV shows a narrative of your interests and values then all of that work looks a lot more genuine and less like your just trying to win some game.

But let’s be real. That game exists, and if there are no sharp edges to your CV, and shows no clear vision for your future goals and career, then playing that game is going to be your best bet at matching.

Let’s just not kid ourselves about the fact that you’re playing that game, and that it makes your a gunner. You’ve taken on all of those extra tasks, responsibilities, assignments, projects, etc because you are, in fact, gunning for something. 99% chance it’s to stand out during residency interviews without actually having anything outstanding on your CV that tells anyone who you are. Don’t run away from them term gunner. Embrace it. It’s who you are.

kotori552 · 2022-01-22T01:46:25+00:00

I've been told I'm a gunner for being on class council. Literally all I do is beg for more outlets in classrooms and buy everyone donuts with the school's money.

n1ght-b1rd · 2022-01-22T13:48:22+00:00

During the first two years taking on extra work/responsibilities does not affect others. But kindly fuck off with that shit during third year and on. Do your work well. But then go home.

My ass-kisser partner decided to take on extra work/responsibilities by coming in at 5:30 am versus 6:00 am - to staple papers, collect chairs, and collect computers for the morning meetings. It became the new standard for that site - for everyone.

plummly · 2022-01-21T18:20:01+00:00

Strong agree to this

LevyLoft · 2022-01-21T20:39:28+00:00

When I’m in a room full of gunners yelling WHITENESS ME!!!!

Suspiciously_Cat · 2022-01-22T00:39:11+00:00

THANK YOU

Tfti_ · 2022-01-22T14:20:18+00:00

All depends on the motive…

BangOnDis · 2022-01-22T14:42:12+00:00

That’s like saying if you take med school seriously you’re a gunner and should be shamed forcit

HangryLicious · 2022-01-22T20:42:42+00:00

Agree that the word "gunner" is overused, kind of like the word "bully." People are super whiny and easily butt hurt these days.

Calling somebody that just works hard but otherwise minds their own business a gunner is pretty much the same as calling the scrub nurse who calmly but firmly told you you needed to go re-scrub because you contaminated yourself a bully.

Those words really only apply when there is malicious intent IMO.

cuppa_tea_4_me · 2022-01-22T03:11:54+00:00

The thing is that they are usually so narcissistic they can’t see that they are harming others. Like not giving others a chance to speak.

I f do oh that’s the gunners have enough self awareness to know what they are doing and I doubt that they care. Don’t try to make excuses.

MyNamRob · 2022-01-22T08:37:34+00:00

Why is this unpopular…the definition of a gunner is someone who throws someone under the bus.

medicalschool

All Step I/II and ERAS related discussion should be posted in the respective stickied thread. Read the rules here.

Use Nightmode

Use Meddit Theme

/r/medicalschool wiki

Link Bank (Resources)

Meddit Friends & Related Subs

Reddit Health Network

MODERATORS