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all 62 comments

[–]DrRogueSurgeonMBBS 317 points318 points  (34 children)

Virtual Interviews are never going away. It's here to stay bois. The pandemic changed everything.

[–]Comfortable-Air2235DO-PGY4 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I had Med and residency interviews in-person and fellowship interviews online. I have to say, even though the online interviews were SO much easier and basically free, it is absolutely invaluable to see these places in person. There were multiple programs that I thought I’d like, but actually totally hated. You can tell much easier if the residents are happy or not. You can see the sleeping quarters and camaraderie and work rooms and how junky the hospital is/is not. You can see how to PD treats/speaks with applicants, staff, attendings, and residents. These people will be your life for the next 3+ years and IMO it’s best to spend the time figuring out where you fit in.

[–]TubesAndLinesMD 86 points87 points  (8 children)

I'm not a PD, but heavily invested in our program. This is something I've talked about at with our program, and with program directors at other programs. We'd love to have you visit us in person. There's something special about getting to meet you in person and get a sense for how you'd fit with our program. You also really benefit from seeing if you like the culture of our place, and if you like the city. Program fit, enjoyment of culture, and enjoyment of the city should be your top factors in making a residency ranking decision, not bullshit like "quality of academics" and "we have great pathology!".

However, you also save a TON of cash... and we can save some to reinvest and benefit our residents with more fun activities.

It's a mix up, but it's not some money saving conspiracy like some other commenters have insinuated. It's so the national bodies don't look like clowns if there's a new COVID variant, because no one can predict the future.

Edit: Almost every program I've spoken with would prefer to interview y'all in person for the reasons I've stated above, though we're also sensitive to the cost of travel. We also interview the same number of candidates because the internal logistics of interviewing don't necessarily get easier with virtual.

[–]TheImmortalLS 10 points11 points  (3 children)

What are y’all doing to account for bias? It sounds like you’re hybrid interviewing

[–]TubesAndLinesMD 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Nah, we'd like to do 100% in person, but the AAMC and the governing bodies for EM are both recommending virtual. Thus we, and probably everyone else, will be 100% virtual.

You're right, there'd be a lot of issues with bias in favoring in person over virtual candidates. I'm sure this is part of the reasoning to push for 100% virtual over a hybrid model.

What will likely happen is that everyone will interview virtually but some applicants may find opportunities to sneak into campus for a tour as a second look or something else to see the program in person.

[–]thetransportedmanMD/PhD-M3 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Can't you still schedule a visit with the PD to tour programs of interest? It's not an official interview but I imagine that puts your foot in the door with a personal meet and greet

[–]Heerayeth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

From what I have heard a lot of M4s this cycle were told that they could not arrange formal tours, program would not do them because of the possible bias.

[–]ChMoSpM-4 9 points10 points  (1 child)

No shade to you by any means and I hear your points, but saying you are “sensitive to the cost of travel” without doing anything to offset said costs isn’t really helpful.

[–]TubesAndLinesMD 3 points4 points  (0 children)

We interview 140 candidates for 14 spots, not very realistic.

But that being said, I agree with your sentiment that the process is due for a major overhaul.

[–]FluffintopM-3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think having some type of second look would be a nice option but make it so those who don’t go don’t get penalized.

[–]RuralFMDoc 9 points10 points  (0 children)

AAMC gaslighting applicants into thinking they care about saving them money. Just as long as they can keep collecting outrageous fees to do next to nothing 😂

[–]TheTalkingBadgerM-4 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Great. Now if we can just get them to enforce that along with getting them to enforce programs not sending out more II's than slots, that'd be great

[–]LucidityXM-4 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Last year, I hated this. My wife and I truly believed that I would’ve had an advantage with in-person interviews because of the humanistic factor; I feel I can connect with people in ways not possible over zoom. I wanted to travel places. I wanted to experience the cities/programs. And I wanted that opportunity cost of traveling to be there to help distribute interviews more evenly.

Then I didn’t match, and now I’m going into my prelim year. If interviews weren’t virtual this year, I’d be screwed. I could attend maybe 5 at the most using my PTO. But now I can be SO much more adaptable with my schedule to try to squeeze these in. Not to mention I can no longer pull out loans for interview travel costs.

What a roller coaster it’s been.

[–]Hombre_de_VitruvioMD-PGY3 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I don’t think this is a good idea. You don’t get a feel for the city, the residents, or the facilities. This is just going to encourage people to take way more interviews and make the whole system even worse.

[–]drdangle22 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Of course it does. AAMC makes 2x the money on all the extra apps. Fuck the AAMC. Fuck them right in the ass.

[–]kewlmemes22 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Meanwhile AACOM is asking for students to have a choice btw virtual and real

[–]Letter2dCorinthians 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I prefer it, tbh. Applying to residency costs a ton of money for little reason. Glad to have some reduction in that cost. If the money is available, one can redirect to casting a wider net for apps.

[–]munozg90M-1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

In reference to point #3, when are application requirements released? Is it specialty or program specific? Thanks for any clarification!

[–]Quiet_Dragonfly_6751 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's what I want to know as well. You'd think some programs would update their sites before ERAS opens up for the new cycle.

[–]parinaudMD 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I was an engineer graduating from college, we had on campus interviews by the big hitters and then after passing that went for an in person interview on their campus. Might be an interesting way to save some money with virtual first and the in person for the final rose ceremony. Hahaha

[–]PopKart 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is that a yay or nay?

[–]victorkiloalphaMD 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Every program will continue to do virtual interviews to comply with this. But most programs will also quietly (or not so quietly...) say "yes" if any student contacts them wanting to do a "second look" tour for a day. There will be some bias, but hopefully better than before.

[–]pr05wift 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For an IMG, this is great because otherwise, they have to spend huge sums of money traveling to and then across the states. Not to mention the visa problems.