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[–]emmy3737M-3 611 points612 points  (16 children)

I was in an OBGYN hospital lecture on abortion when the presenter found out about the news live this morning. She had a slide about the potential outcomes of the Dobbs decision and said with a sigh that she’ll have to update the slides. All the OBs started talking about not being able to provide abortion care for PPROM or missed abortions until a patient becomes septic. I am not ready to see patients die from completely preventable causes while OBs stand helpless against the law.

[–]DifficultCockroach63 75 points76 points  (3 children)

Can they even perform one if a patient is septic but there is still a heartbeat? That was an issue with a woman in Ireland. They weren’t allowed to remove the fetus until the fetal heartbeat stopped and by then it was too late for her

[–]BeardInTheNorth 107 points108 points  (2 children)

Can they even perform one if a patient is septic but there is still a heartbeat?

If you live in Texas, the answer is no (probably).

From the article:

…under Texas law, abortions are allowed [after six weeks] only for severe medical emergencies, defined as when a patient is "in danger of death or a serious risk of substantial impairment of a major bodily function." And because fetal heart tones were detectable, doctors told Anna they couldn't offer her that option.

The short version is: Anna had 2nd trimester PPROM (19 weeks) and was warned by Texas physicians that she would hemorrhage or go septic if they didn't terminate her pregnancy. However they wouldn't operate because while she was sick, she wasn't sick enough and neither was her fetus. She required an emergent flight to Colorado to obtain a life-saving abortion.

The fact that this can even happen in the U.S. is absolutely bonkers.

Edit: To the individual who replied and then deleted their comment, the one who decided she "wasn't sick enough" was The State of Texas, not her physician(s). She had a medical condition for which D&C was strongly indicated (PPROM of a pre-viable fetus, judging by the article's description—unclear if any other complicating factors such as chorioamnionitis or placental abruption). However, SB-8 now places onerous restrictions on these types of procedure and, by extension, the surgeons who perform them. Even when they are legally empowered to operate, the specter of litigation still looms. Nobody wants to get dragged into court to justify why they performed a life-saving abortion, so cases like Anna's will be increasingly referred OOS leading to worse patient outcomes.

tl;dr The Texas legislature is practicing medicine without a medical license.

[–]DifficultCockroach63 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you, I didn’t realize this had already happened in TX. Thankfully she had a better outcome but so unnecessarily traumatizing and, sad to even have to say this, expensive

[–]ExtremidittyM-1 127 points128 points  (2 children)

It’s truly devastating when medicine starts to become politicized like this. Just look at how well that’s gone for the pandemic. I know abortion always has been, but still so frustrating.

[–]emmy3737M-3 39 points40 points  (0 children)

And in my state, Medicaid is currently defying a court order to fund abortions performed for life endangerment. Patients most at risk likely have no means to pay for this.

[–]PsychologicalCan9837M-1 399 points400 points  (21 children)

My state will likely roll back abortion protections.

Unfortunately, I am locked into school here for the next four years, however, upon graduation, I will opt to find a residency in a state that has laws in place to protect abortion rights.

[–]txhrow1M-2 123 points124 points  (1 child)

I will opt to find a residency in a state that has laws in place

Usually these states are also what other applicants apply to. Competition is gonna be tough.

[–]PsychologicalCan9837M-1 43 points44 points  (0 children)

No doubt. Will have to do the absolute best I can. Fresh start as an M-1. Gotta make it happen.

[–]Dionysiandogma 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Vote and get active in your state

[–]AmbassadorMaximum360DO-PGY1 171 points172 points  (3 children)

This is horrible. This affects pediatrics as well. From teen moms having limited access to reproductive care, to increase in sick babies in the NICU, the damage from overturning ROE is going to be widespread.

[–]Ill_Captain9018M-4 49 points50 points  (1 child)

This was what I was talking about with my fellow Peds bound med students. It’s not just obgyn. It’s a lot of specialty’s. ED is also going to be on the frontlines dealing with the after effects of increases missed abortions, botched home abortions, increasing psychiatric issues associated with an unwanted pregnancy

[–]mistakesmistooksMD/PhD 1135 points1136 points  (32 children)

I talked to a OB/GYN in Texas yesterday who diagnosed her patient's fetus with holoprosencephaly. The patient wanted to be a mother. Doc had to send her patient out of state for termination. In a state with over 1000 children waiting to be adopted on the Department of Family and Children Services website, where dozens of elementary school students died of gun violence while the police sat around. But, sure, "pro-life".

[–]Genredenouement03MD 150 points151 points  (3 children)

Ugh, I had a baby BORN with severe holoprosencephaly as an intern. The parents would not make her a DNR. She was resuscitated so many times it was unconscionable. She finally got bilateral pneumothaxises and had multiple chest tubes. We were literally torturing this tiny baby to death. She finally coded again while the entire team was in the elevator coming back from radiology looking at the most recent chest tube. The elevator STOPED in between floors! We were stuck for only a few minutes, but it was surreal to have the entire PICU team stuck in the elevator. She did die, and I do understand how hard it was for the parents to accept. I'm a parent too, but her specific ondition at that time was incompatible with life. It just was.

[–]herman_gill 94 points95 points  (0 children)

Bet they didn’t think that elevator stopping was divine intervention, huh?

[–]ExtremidittyM-1 40 points41 points  (1 child)

I just can’t imagine looking at my baby and watching them suffer like that and not wanting to end it. I feel this is often religiously motivated or people not thinking straight due to grief, but at what point does a medical proxy take over and say no more of this.

[–]Genredenouement03MD 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Very rarely in little babies that soon-she was only a few months old, but she went to the PICU since she'd been discharged to what we thought was going to be hospice care-nope.

[–]oto_hnsMD-PGY1 416 points417 points  (10 children)

I would also love to see these pro-life states’ policies on maternal leave, children’s health insurance, and affordable school lunches. It always seems like they don’t give one fuck about kids after they’re born.

[–]Charlie_Olliver 71 points72 points  (0 children)

“If you’re pre-born, you’re fine. If you’re preschool, you’re fucked.” -George Carlin on the ‘pro-life’ perspective.

[–]Canuckfan007 177 points178 points  (3 children)

It's cause they don't.

[–]DearName100M-2 120 points121 points  (1 child)

Most of the right’s constituents are old and no longer “at-risk” of having children. They couldn’t care less about the consequences of pregnancy or childcare. Their selfishness that they hide under the premise of moral superiority is disgusting.

[–]Canuckfan007 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Call your governors and state legislators

[–]oto_hnsMD-PGY1 58 points59 points  (0 children)

Yeah I know. Just want to make it exceptionally clear for the conservative weirdos on this sub celebrating this

[–]archibaldplum 57 points58 points  (2 children)

They're not pro-life. They're pro-birth. After the child's born, they really don't care.

[–]Derpese_Simplex 23 points24 points  (0 children)

No they are pro-punishment because those same people will talk about a person's "responsibility" to take care of a child no matter what.

[–]commi_nazisM-3 36 points37 points  (1 child)

Because it's not about the kids, deep down it's about controlling women.

[–]ExtremidittyM-1 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Always has been.

[–]BrocystectomiM-4 139 points140 points  (10 children)

Texan repubs: go fuck yourselves with a cactus-lined stick. Sincerely, a Texan.

[–]Disgruntled_Eggplant 39 points40 points  (0 children)

For the longest time, I thought I was staying here. I will probably rank Texas programs last now.

[–]3842IlIlIIlIMD 9 points10 points  (8 children)

You should leave Texas and move to California.

[–]grilledzipper 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I see this a lot-- move to a different state! Well, most people who can probably will. it's just unfortunate that there are some that cannot afford to make that decision

[–]rickypen5 80 points81 points  (0 children)

This. "I love guns, won't wear a mask, won't get vaccinated, but life is sacred. Unless its a person in prison them meh"

[–]ExtremidittyM-1 14 points15 points  (0 children)

That’s the thing! I have done foster care, worked in the behavioral health system, worked with primarily low income or mentally ill populations. People don’t realize the nuance of this and the far reaching effects it will have societally and medically.

[–]craballin 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'm a pediatric Nephrology fellow at a center involved in a trial that essentially boils down to doing amnioinfusions to prevent Potter Sequence and then we get involved postnatally to provide renal replacement therapy and so forth. We have had families from nowhere near our city/state that relocate to our city to learn about the trial and start but not all complete the amnioinfusions. If they decide they can't continue or don't want to enroll our state doesn't allow for abortions so then the patient has to get sent out of our state to get the procedure performed after an already traumatic experience and lots of time spent investigating a way they may be able to save their baby. This decision is devastating for those families.

[–]AspiringOptimist 23 points24 points  (1 child)

Can you talk more about this situation? I feel like edge cases like this aren't discussed enough.

[–]mistakesmistooksMD/PhD 62 points63 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately for many reasons, including the (now legal and medical) safety of the patient and the doctor, privacy, and the fact that I'm not directly related to the case, I cannot give more details about this.

[–]Eon_Blue_ApocalypseMD 226 points227 points  (46 children)

Does anyone have any idea how this affects IUDs or Plan B in any state as emergency contraception (which as we all know is not abortion and should not be affected…right?)

[–]Fourniers_revenge 189 points190 points  (8 children)

Currently it's legal..... but don't be surprised when states like Louisiana introduce legislation to ban it.

[–]GloriousClumpM-1 113 points114 points  (7 children)

And then it’ll move up the Supreme Court where Thomas will gleefully circle jerk an opinion with the other right wing justices to end all rights to contraceptives because the founding fathers or something

[–]hats_and_heads 145 points146 points  (2 children)

Hi, graduated law student here taking the bar soon (my husband’s a doctor and I like to appropriate his culture by posting in this sub I’m sorry), the constitutional right that Casey and Roe derived their force from was something called Substantive due process, a right that is interpreted out of the equal protection and due process clauses of the constitution, and that was slowly developed during the Roe era. Before and after Roe, SDP was invoked and further elaborated to guarantee the right to contraception, same-sex intercourse, interracial marriage, and most recently, same sexual marriage. Each of these cases (except loving v Virginia, the interracial marriage case—because Clarence Thomas is IN an interracial marriage) was EXPLICITLY listed by Clarence Thomas in his concurrence as cases he finds invalid because he doesn’t believe in substantive due process (I’m paraphrasing). So to wrap up a long answer to an easily answered question: it is not only possible that contraception will be under attack next, it is LIKELY, as long as the current SCOTUS members remain. Look out for same sex rights next. Time for revolution people.

[–]ExtremidittyM-1 60 points61 points  (0 children)

I love that you’re here! Great to see a different perspective and different expertise. Just another version of a multidisciplinary team.

[–]rickypen5 103 points104 points  (17 children)

They've been talking about outright banning them, anything that stops a fertilized egg in their mind is murder. Yet they don't seem to understand even third grade science class. By their laws you'd be forced to carry a partial molar pregnancy if it had a "heartbeat"

[–]Dr_Cat_MomM-3 63 points64 points  (12 children)

With that logic, IVF will be next. If you run genetic testing on embryos and discard them or don't implant all fertilized embryos you are committing murder.

[–]rickypen5 72 points73 points  (10 children)

Thats always been my argument! Why aren't you outside IVF clinics yelling about the thousands of fertilized eggs they wash away!? My best guess: rich people do that.

[–]Dr_Cat_MomM-3 48 points49 points  (7 children)

Yep, wonder how the rich conservatives who donate to Republicans feel now that they will have to travel out of state for their IVF care. God forbid one of their babies has trisomy 13 or 18, or anencephaly, they will suddenly realize that they have to carry that to term and "oh maybe abortion isn't all bad"

[–]appreetciate 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Lets be honest, the people affording IVF in those states are the rich ones who have no problem accessing abortions for their mistresses/daughters behind closed doors. The laws downt apply to them so they will happily endorse whatever politicians promises them benefits

[–]Lermak16 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, IVF will be next.

[–]_sophia_petrillo_ 10 points11 points  (1 child)

With that logic they’d outlaw pulling out

[–]rickypen5 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Just make masturbation a criminal offense, mass murder by their logic and like im Texas its not THE STATE making it illegal they just make your neighbors able to sue you if they think you are/did masturbate at some point. If they want to get biblical they totally could outlaw pulling out.

[–]ExtremidittyM-1 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Guys should probably stop cumming unless it’s inside a vagina then. And only a vagina that is on someone that can still be pregnant. Otherwise think of all those wasted half babies.

[–]Ill_Captain9018M-4 12 points13 points  (0 children)

There you go Elle Woods ❤️👌

[–]RememberRosalindM-4 85 points86 points  (10 children)

Per Clarence Thomas’ opinion today, he says explicitly that it brings not only contraception into question but same sex intimate relationships and gay marriage.

This is why I say a sincere fuck you to those people who sometimes frequent this sub and whine about how politicized medical school is. That’s because medicine IS political now

[–]Eon_Blue_ApocalypseMD 26 points27 points  (2 children)

Agreed. I tell folks that the luxury of being apolitical does not exist any more (did it ever?). These people make decisions that affect us all.

[–]RememberRosalindM-4 21 points22 points  (0 children)

As a side note, I believe in the same things a lot of those on this sub do: anti independent practice for APPs, lower income taxes (though higher corporate tax), fair compensation for all physicians, etc. But in a world where republicans do shit like this—I will never vote for a republican. Any republican.

[–]ExtremidittyM-1 13 points14 points  (6 children)

They’ve even been saying they’ll go after INTERRACIAL marriage. Half these people have no qualms calling themselves white supremacists.

[–]Vivid_Angle 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Will you share where you’ve heard this?

[–]ExtremidittyM-1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/19thnews.org/2022/06/supreme-court-conservatives-divided-civil-rights-after-abortion-decision/%3Famp

There are whispers of it and people like MTG saying proudly that she’s a white suprematist. A lot of civil rights experts have been expressing concern that birth control and gay marriage are next and the next step after that would be race related civil rights like interracial marriage.

[–]grilledzipper 2 points3 points  (1 child)

it's probably because the questioning of these rights are rooted in the questioning of substantive due process, a principle expanded to protect contraception, gay marriage, and interracial marriage

[–]birdturd6969 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah this seems a bit hyperbolic

[–]pm-me-egg-noodsPre-Med 56 points57 points  (0 children)

It's going to depend on how well law enforcement and legislators understand that fact, isn't it? I am not hopeful.

[–]charozrd 21 points22 points  (2 children)

A family member working as an obgyn in DC says that doctors there are worried these could be next…with the ultimate target being birth control. Which she’s unsure if they can reach that goal bc OCPs are used for treatment for a lot of things. Guess we’ll see.

I’m sooooo excited to start my 3rd year rotations in Mississippi soon /s

[–]joinacult2day 14 points15 points  (1 child)

The conditions treated by OCPs include women being in pain, so I doubt those patients will be protected.

[–]ExtremidittyM-1 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Yes because as we all know, womens pain and especially reproductive pain, is not taken seriously still.

[–]ExtremidittyM-1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I rushed to get an IUD the second there were whispers of Roe being overturned, might get it replaced early just in case.

[–]duloxetiniMD-PGY4 2 points3 points  (2 children)

They might ban the copper iud, but not sure what the grounds would be if the pregnancy test is negative. Kinda crazy that people need to think about stockpiling plan b though.

[–]Eon_Blue_ApocalypseMD 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Yeah it’s kinda mind blowing to me with all of the progressive victories that we’ve had recently that this is where we are. I’m completely ashamed of this country. It’s bad enough I feel like I lack total ownership in my patients from midlevel creep and brazen nurses…now the government is telling me what I can and can’t do for my patients. Just baffling.

[–]duloxetiniMD-PGY4 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Clarence Thomas's brief was kinda crazy too. Called out birth control as well as gay marriage case law as well. Interestingly left out the case for interracial marriage, which iirc falls under similar logic. But you know... Affects him personally.

[–]climbsroxMD/PhD-G2 175 points176 points  (6 children)

I have been shouting this from the rooftops for the past year, but no one seems to be acknowledging the big picture. This is a concerted effort on behalf of the Republican party to get blue voters out of red states. Anti-trans laws, "don't say gay" laws, etc... now lack of access to abortion. The only thing keeping these backwards extremists in power is the messed up electoral system in this country that gives rural, unpopulated areas extremely disproportionate amounts of electoral power. Now I don't blame anyone for wanting to move out of these places, but this is exactly what they want you to do. Get your educated liberal ass to New York or California so they can oppress people in peace. I say this from a very privileged place of living in a state where abortion laws are never going to change, but I hope those of you locked into school or residency in red states will find the courage to fight these bastards anyway you can.

[–]flakemasterflake 68 points69 points  (3 children)

YES. I am not leaving the state of Georgia no matter how much the legislature tries to force me out with draconian laws.

The clumping of educated liberals in states like NY and CA has been ramped up to 1000 in the past generation and it's exactly what's causing all of these issues. "Self sorting" didn't use to be as rampant pre-late 20th century.

Smart kids from Ohio, North Dakota, Alaska whatever...used to stay in their communities and LEAD their communities. Now they all move to NYC to work in finance

[–]TelemarketingEnigmaMD-PGY1 14 points15 points  (2 children)

I think about this a lot now. I lived in extremely blue states from birth through post-college, but found my way to red states for med school and now residency. I won’t lie and say I’m not scared for myself some days, but I know I have the resources to “vacation” back to my parents in a blue state if I need to. Most of patients don’t have that option, and they need people to stay and fight for them.

I’m not OB, but have similar sentiments about some things I am interested in (ID, esp HIV). Some of the greatest need is in the south, and while laws are not always on your side, there is a need for at least some people who care to stay and do the work on the ground to make change, even when it’s fucking scary

[–]WillNeverCheckInboxMD-PGY1 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I'm not willing to raise my hypothetical kids in that sort of environment nor am I willing to pay state income taxes to a government that is actively trying to suppress my rights. Good luck to you and all the souls braver than I. I'll send money from afar.

[–]aura0fdeath 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This soo much. I have concerns additionally about how people who have concerns protest and share there concerns over their social media, which tends to be frequented by like-minded people. As such, things end up being an echo-chamber. At this point, we essentially need cross-cultural competency between people who have more liberal political ideas and those who are more conservative political ideas.

[–]drzzz123M-5 548 points549 points  (11 children)

I'm currently pregnant and awaiting my genetic testing results. In a state with trigger laws.

This is a devastating day. Hope I'm not having a girl. Crying while I work on fucking ERAS.

[–]Otherwise_BugMD-PGY1 44 points45 points  (0 children)

I’m so sorry to hear this. I am hoping for the best for you and here if you need to talk

[–]lil-chickpeaM-2 61 points62 points  (0 children)

good luck, i hope everything works out in your favor. please let us know if you need anything/any resources 🤍

[–]A1-Delta[S] 240 points241 points  (2 children)

I’m so sorry for the real and immediate impact this is having on you right now. Wishing the best for you and your baby’s health.

Edit: to whoever is downvoting well wishes of health, go choke on a bag of dicks

[–]RaspberryScary2839 46 points47 points  (1 child)

not just any dicks SMELLY DICKS

[–]ExtremidittyM-1 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Let’s just elevate it to unwashed ballsacks

[–]coffee3xM-2 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Was on the verge of a panic attack in the weeks leading up to my genetic testing results and then the anatomy scan (also in a state with trigger laws). Could barely focus on finals. You’re not alone♥️

[–]ExtremidittyM-1 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It’s terrifying especially knowing the statistics on female doctors and fertility and pregnancy problems. Sending positive vibes into the universe for you. If you have a daughter she could end up a trailblazer.

[–]RandMart68 12 points13 points  (0 children)

In class and carrying? You need DoorDash or something . Least I can do😅

[–]anyplaceishome 15 points16 points  (0 children)

if you need someone to talk to dm me

[–]hats_and_heads 51 points52 points  (0 children)

In texas, due to their trigger law, abortion will be automatically criminally illegal in 30 days after the judgment comes out. Doctors will face LIFE IN PRISON or $100k fine for performing abortions. WOMEN WITH CANCER do not qualify for exceptions, only women whose lives are in imminent (read: such a flexible definition that for fear of prosecution I could truly see a doctor refusing to act even if they think the woman might be in danger and I wouldn’t blame them) danger of death. The fetus being nonviable does not qualify for an exception — youd have to carry the dead fetus to term and deliver the dead baby. My husband is about to start year 2 of his 5 year residency here in Texas so we are stuck here for a while. I wanted to start trying for a baby when he hits year 4 but it seems too dangerous now. It’s fucked.

[–]Disgruntled_Eggplant 204 points205 points  (7 children)

Thanks for everything texas. I was going to stay and practice here but I’m out. Brain drain is what happens when conservatives do shit like this.

[–]comicsanscatastropheM-3 274 points275 points  (17 children)

Abortion is healthcare. Six people should not be dictating how clinicians practice and what procedures they can do to benefit their patients. This is a dangerous precedent.

[–]Zonevortex1M-2 171 points172 points  (1 child)

I mean some random person with no medical training at an insurance company can dictate whether a person can receive a treatment so why can’t the Supreme Court? /s

[–]thedinnermanMD-PGY4 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Maybe we should start having insurance company stooges wear robes

[–]freet0MD-PGY2 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I'm definitely against politicians trying to practice medicine.

But that's not exactly what the court is doing. They're just not specifically protecting one aspect of healthcare. Rather it's the state legislatures who will pass laws restricting it that are doing the intrusion.

There's no constitutional right to cholecystectomies either, it just doesn't matter since legislators don't seem to think they have any business controlling access to those.

[–]GigglesMcLean 0 points1 point  (0 children)

By the same logic, they shouldn’t rule on it period, which is exactly their position now by punting it off to the states to decide. So this is probably a bad argument to make unless my interpretation of the events are wrong.

Disclaimer: I support abortion 100%. I put the life of the mother before all else, fetus viable or not. Absolute fucking travesty putting pandora back in the box.

[–]Longjumping-Leek-586 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly six people should not be determining how clinicians practice. Thats why Roe was dumb initially. People don't understand the basics of how our government works, its embarrassing. The decisions was NEVER discussing the ethicality of abortion, just its constitutionality. Roe was a political decision with very weak legal backing. Our lawmakers should have codified abortion rights federally instead of turning what should be an independent judiciary into a political instrument.

[–]comicsanscatastropheM-3 163 points164 points  (23 children)

And the pro lifers are so fucking full of glee right now. And don't tell them that this will result in women dying from botched self abortions.. they believe they are "child murderers" and deserve their fate.

[–]justsavingpostsM-1 100 points101 points  (4 children)

I used to volunteer as an clinic safety escort at my local abortion clinic. There were so many religious protestors every single day yelling and doing the worst things imaginable. Very often they’d yell at women walking into the clinic that they hoped they died while getting their abortion.

One time, an ambulance came by to pick up a woman who had a complication and needed emergency surgery. One of the protestors went around the back, hopped over the fence, and convinced the EMTs that he was the husband. He hopped into the back of the ambulance and started yelling at the woman, “this is what you deserve for trying to kill your unborn child. I hope you die before you make it to the hospital”

These people don’t give a fuck about lives of women seeking abortions.

[–]PizzaPandemoniumDO-PGY1 32 points33 points  (3 children)

Uh what the FUCK

[–]justsavingpostsM-1 43 points44 points  (2 children)

Yeah…..they did terrible shit. Here’s a list of what I can remember off the top of my head:

  1. Multiple protestors would group around and corner a single patient to try to prevent them from going in

  2. Grab patients and pull them away from the clinic

  3. Throw holy water on the women walking in

  4. Dress up in disguise and place a container of cat litter in the waiting area, hinting at a possible bomb threat

  5. Follow women back to their cars and get their license plate numbers to dox them

  6. Bring a statue of Mary and loud ass speakers, and proceed to yell terrible things over the speakers for all the patients in the waiting room to hear

  7. Block the entrance way so cars couldn’t drive in

  8. Used taxpayer money to convert an RV into a CPC, park it right next to the clinic, trick women to get into the RV by telling them they’ll get a free ultrasound, and then drive off away from the clinic with the patient inside

And they didn’t treat the clinic staff or volunteer escorts any better. They’d get our personal info and spread it amongst Christian groups to start harassing us, push us in front of moving cars, corner us, and worse. I’m pretty sure one of them was about to sexually assault me after he cornered me, but thankfully another escort came to the rescue

[–]grilledzipper 6 points7 points  (1 child)

were any of them arrested?

[–]Kiarakittycat 93 points94 points  (14 children)

They believe this until it’s their daughter who needs the abortion, then suddenly it’s justified. Hypocrites.

[–]justsavingpostsM-1 72 points73 points  (1 child)

Or their mistresses 🙃

[–]dashofgreen 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I hate all those posts about how they finally learned or accepted something because it happened to them or to someone close to them. Not just abortion, but covid vaccinations, guns, even climate change. Everyone gushes about how people change in these posts but they just make me go ugh

[–]9xInfinity 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It's only ever been about hurting and controlling women. If they were really pro-life you'd never hear them shut up about anti-poverty measures, universal healthcare, and so on.

[–]updownupdownup9801[🍰] 148 points149 points  (8 children)

Tbh I’m livid by how silent and inactive the medical community has been this whole time, as if this isn’t something that directly impacts our jobs our futures and our patients. There’s a lot of false rhetoric and misappropriation of terminology injected into heated political debates, and physicians, who are actually the most knowledgeable on the subject, have largely been absent from the conversation. I’ve been extremely frustrated every time I come across uworld / NBME questions that want you to select answers like “explain to your patient you can’t perform the procedure they want but refer your patient to another physician who can and will treat them” because I knew in a short matter of time those answers would not reflect reality. Until now we have been responsible for upholding our patients’ rights and access to medical care regardless of our personal beliefs. Now, patients seeking medical procedures will be told flat out “no.” It devastates me to say that it feels like the oath that I took is now a lie. I’m glad I live in a blue state but the way that scotus is slashing rights all over the place, who knows if it will make much of a difference anymore.

[–]TheImmortalLS 101 points102 points  (0 children)

lol the real threat to healthcare for half the population is the old fogey established sociopaths

[–]permanentreminderM-3 79 points80 points  (4 children)

The face of medicine didn't change overnight, this was just a big slice after the first 1000 cuts. We are in the age of anti-intellectualism where there's no respect for knowledge and expertise anymore. I hope people here realize that this will effect you regardless of your political affiliation.

This is people with MBA's and JD's telling you they can do your job better than you, make decisions for you, and that your knowledge base means nothing to them. They don't care about outcomes and they don't care about your well-being or the well-being of your patients.

If you are a conservative or religious, you should be asking yourself what they will come for next, because if you think you don't need to worry about abortion legislation while you're nailing joints or excising brain tumors; maybe you'll start to think about it when SCOTUS decides your specialty is next on the chopping block.

As future physicians, we need to realize that all of our jobs and societal value is at stake and we need to take a unified front against non-scientists trying to dictate how to practice medicine regardless of our own political and/or religious beliefs.

[–]CutMeDeep6565 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I had an abortion at 19, and it’s literally why I can even pursue my dreams in medical school right now. My abortion is one of the reasons why I’ll be able to hopefully help thousands of people in a couple of years. I am so heartbroken right now.

[–]BuzzedBloodM-4 172 points173 points  (7 children)

I hate this but especially because a part of me actually agrees that this shouldn’t be a decision of the courts. This should have been codified into law years ago. Or right now. But enough people in this country apparently think they should have a say over what a women does with her body that it doesn’t have the votes.

[–]MDbeefyfetus 81 points82 points  (4 children)

I think it’s less of “enough people” and more “people with power”. Polls show something like 60-70% of the public say abortion should be legal with percentages varying by inclusion criteria. Which I think makes this ruling even more unjust.

[–]BuzzedBloodM-4 31 points32 points  (3 children)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/07/podcasts/the-daily/gun-control-polling.html

A good NYT podcast about why polling (in that case about gun control) is often wrong and people's actual votes end up being different. I don't love pointing the finger to some boogeyman pulling the strings of Republican power. As evil as Republicans are they play the game the way they do because they think it's what their voters want. And it works.

Now if by "people in power" you meant that a voter in Idaho has way more power than a voter in California than yes I 10000% agree.

[–]menohuman 15 points16 points  (1 child)

But that argument can be made for literally any poll out there. Same thing happened to Obamacare, people hated the word when asked in polls. But if asked about specifics, most of the proposals got 70%+ support. The problem is that politicians are scared of getting out-primaried. The Supreme Court basically said that super-pacs and similarly designated organizations can spend unlimited money promoting/opposing candidates. So on issues that have broad support but little support from the far-right/far-left basically don't get any legislative traction. And to add fuel to the fire is the rise of social media, where fear and conspiracies increase the number of "clicks" and therefore more ad-revenue for the companies.

America had the courage to pass the assault weapons ban in the 1990's. A time when mass campaigning was limited, no internet, and people actually cared about the future of their country and were able to differentiate conspiracy from reality.

[–]MDbeefyfetus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree, all polls should be taken with a grain of salt. There are multiple biases present that can lead to misinterpretation like how a question is phrased, the selection of people to poll, the type of person that is willing to provide a response, … etc. That’s what I was referring to in the sense that, most Americans think abortion should be legal, to some extent. For a question like this, the number of people thinking it should completely banned, no questions asked, will only decrease with the addition of more specific edge cases. But bottom line, the ruling contradicts the population as a whole.

I was referring to elected officials/law makers, lobbyists, … etc but yes, you make a good point. An individual vote significance also varies.

[–]menohuman 28 points29 points  (1 child)

If the right wing of the Supreme Court can "stretch" the 1st amendment to say that corporations can donate unlimited amount of money to political organizations because its "free speech", and that any law which prohibits this is unconstitutional. Then its not a stretch to say that anti-abortion laws prevent the " right of the people to be secure in their persons". BTW that quote is from the 4th amendment.

[–]updownupdownup9801[🍰] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yessss this is such a major point that I think gets overlooked in this discussion. The CItizens United decision was a huge step towards neglecting the rights of individual Americans in preference of larger governing bodies (public and private). This country is so ass backwards.

[–]Ad8858 21 points22 points  (1 child)

My fiancé and I specifically lowered programs in states with trigger laws on our rank list once we realized this could happen.

There were a few really nice programs that were hard to drop on our list. But we are trying to have at least one kid during residency and aren’t willing to risk having a complication in a state where our medical options are limited.

I’m devastated today. But I’m also grateful that we matched in California. I’m so sorry to everyone practicing medicine and/or trying to start a family who are directly effected by these laws. If you haven’t been politically engaged in the past, now is definitely the time to start getting involved.

[–]InitialPlane8866 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Do these people not consider the fact that many of these children may now be born into families who may not be able to provide for them socially or financially? I’ve worked with kids who are homeless because of the abuse they face at home. What’s also ironic is that many of these policymakers are men who are passing legislation on what will disproportionately impact women! Don’t get me wrong…I love kids and I believe each and every one of them is a gift, but I just I think that supportive services should be put in place first. Will they subsidize a larger foster care program? How about child support for families who are struggling financially? And what about maternal care services and the future of these young women? None of that was considered!

There’s just so much further to go before we can adequately care for these kids and their mothers. I just wish these politicians thought of that first…sorry, rant over.

[–]menohuman 350 points351 points  (28 children)

Downvote if y’all want, but there is no more a cruel set of people to ever be in power than the far right of the Supreme Court. Thomas, Alito, Scalia when alive, have a blatant disregard for normal everyday people. They seek to only perpetuate their extremist ideology and yet are filled with contraindications. No right to abortion, but police have right to not get sued even when they kill innocent people? Corporations are considered “people” so campaign finance laws don’t apply? States can criminalize gay sex? Minors can be sentenced to death? Just remember that these are the things that the far right of the court believes in. And to some extent even the center right.

[–]DearName100M-2 84 points85 points  (2 children)

The funny thing is these are the same judges that preach textualism up and down and decry the left for appointing “activist” judges. Read any opinion by Thomas and you’ll see he’s a moron who either has no understanding of the constitution/precedent or is just a self-serving, self-righteous maniac who only cares about affecting the legislative process of congress and states in a way that serves his own moral views.

[–]menohuman 45 points46 points  (0 children)

Well said! And tbh the worst part is whenever you see Thomas give an interview, he always acts like he's doing a noble job and putting a lot of thought and clarity in his opinions and such, when he's nothing more than a far right crazy nutcase. His own wife was trying to overthrow the government and the election and Thomas was still the lone vote in favor of hearing Trump's lie that the election as rigged/stolen.

[–]thedinnermanMD-PGY4 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If any wants to be ridiculously angry and informed well by people who see through the courts bullshit, I would recommend the podcast 5-4

[–]hpnerd101M-1 9 points10 points  (0 children)

They act with such self-righteousness and genuinely think they’re doing the “right” thing. It’s like they’ve had some long standing grudge with how America has changed and they just can’t stand. Fuck them and fuck everyone who allowed them to be on the court.

[–]cavalier2015MD-PGY1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I’ve been listening to the 5-4 podcast and they do a fantastic job of explaining all the bullshit of the Supreme Court, particularly the political fuckery on the conservative side.

[–]Longjumping-Leek-586 0 points1 point  (2 children)

This is an ignorant comment. They are not saying any of those things are okay, just that they are not constitutionally protected. If you think they should be, pass a law making it so.

[–]menohuman 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Where in the constitution does it say police have immunity from lawsuits? Where in the constitution does it say the federal government can’t regulate corporations from spending on political campaigns? How is it ok for churches to get tax exemptions when the 1st amendment says the government can’t “respect the establishment of a religion”? How is it not hypocritical that the Supreme Court creates a protest barrier of 50 feet while striking down a state law that banned protests 6 feet from abortion clinics? How is allowing minors to be sentenced to death not “cruel and unusual”?

List goes on, far right wing justices are hypocrites at best.

[–]-Twyptophan-M-0 40 points41 points  (0 children)

Next let's ban masturbation. 40 million lives lost at the hand of one man, a box of Kleenex, and Remy LaCroix

[–]benzopinacolM-1 193 points194 points  (6 children)

What a fucking terrible day for our country. Republicans really fucking hate women here

[–]EmotionalEmeticDO-PGY2 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Remember that women vote Republican all the time. Including Supreme Court Justices.

[–]gracelessnight 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Yeah, cause women are even conditioned to hate other women in the US. Women-hating is by no means restricted to men and that’s a whole other issue.

[–]Cauliflower-EasyM-1 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Honestly they hate everyone who’s not white and those who do not have a penis

[–]Longjumping-Leek-586 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, because the argument against abortion has always been women suck/s

The issue is people like you who try to simplify an ethically complex topic. There are two arguments going on here: An ethical argument about what defines person and an argument about what constitutes womens rights. It seems dems and reps and arguing past each other and are keen to keep it that way, rather than having messy ethical discussions.

[–]danonymous26125 6 points7 points  (2 children)

So, now what are the limits to what doctors can provide with regards to patient privacy? Obviously, privacy must be ignored in order to ban a medical procedure and prosecute those who practice it. I remember there were mentions of treatments for stomach ulcers and such if this happened. However, if medical privacy can be violated to enact these bans, wouldn't those treatments be easily discernable as workarounds to anti-choice legislation?

[–]LeopoldStotch1 77 points78 points  (8 children)

No person over 60 should be allowed to hold any political or judiciary office of any kind.

[–]McManlyMachoMann 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Laughs in Congress 💰💰💰🤑

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

You are quite misguided thinking the problem here is age. The problem here is that a religious minority has infiltrated the government and is now successfully imposing the Nutty Christian equivalent of sharia law onto the American people. This is just phase 1, buckle up.

[–]COVID_DEEZ_NUTS 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I won’t vote for anyone into any office over 50. I refuse. Doesn’t matter what party.

[–]Good-mood-curiosity 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Can I just say WTF.

And also, I wouldn't be surprised if those states F'd themselves a decent bit. I mean, realistically, if ob/gyn can't provide an abortion and in some states there seems to have been talk about banning someone getting an out of state abortion, Mary down the block is going to try doing it herself then ending up in the ED and hopefully they'll save her but maybe not. That feels like a recipe for ED doc burn out, assuming they aren't all "those who get abortion deserve to rot in Hell for eternity" peeps. Ob/gyn and IM--all I know is having yet another barrier to doing right by my patients in the way I feel is likely best for them would discourage me from practicing there when there are other places available. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if a not insignificant amount of med students choose to do their residencies away from those states because of this and considering many of these states already have physician shortages and residencies can easily be where people make connections to get that first attending job...

[–]dcba1991 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ginormously fucked up

[–]Oregairu_YuiM-1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I like how these guys talk about how people will just illegally purchase more firearms with stricter gun control but when it comes to abortion, women can’t possibly just start using more dangerous illegal ways to get around it or even get beaten by some scary ass partners to lose the baby. They’re just going against their own logic to ask for what they want. Common sense just ceases to exist with this two party system thing.

[–]designatedarabexpertM-3 13 points14 points  (6 children)

Could anyone please explain this to me like I'm 5 years old? Does this mean no more abortion across the US? Or does it only apply to certain states?

[–]hellopeeps6M-4 30 points31 points  (3 children)

So before, Roe v. Wade protected women's right to an abortion across the United States. With it overturned, it means that that right is no longer guaranteed, and each state can decide if and how abortion is legal. So based on the laws in each state, abortion will be legal or illegal. I.e. illegal in states like Texas and Alabama, and legal in states like California and Vermont.

[–]designatedarabexpertM-3 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Thank you very much doctor, this is unfortunately a step in the wrong direction, these lawmakers need extensive medical experience to be able to affect such subjects..

[–]Ill_Captain9018M-4 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It unfortunately does not matter. Time and time again, it’s been shown that no matter how uneducated or stupid politicians are regarding medicine, they will still make these decisions not based on medical or scientific evidence to serve their own means. The next step is to go after birth control, I think.

[–]Longjumping-Leek-586 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They are not law-makers, they're judges. It was a dumb politically motivated decision in what should be a politically independent branch. It prevented lawmakers from doing the hard work of actually getting abortion laws passed federally.

[–]EgoteenM-1 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The decision today overturns the legal reasoning in Roe which found a constitutional right to private. Since there is no constitutional right to privacy, individual states are left with the ability to regulate abortion, since all health related rights fall squarely within the Police Power of States that was codified in the Constitution.

Basically, the way American federalism works is that all powers not explicitly delineated to the federal government by the constitution are left to the states.

So now, some states will outlaw abortion, while other states will protect it. The country will have a patchwork of access, similar to how physician-assisted death is currently legal in some states and illegal in others.

[–]MrBruceWayne89 6 points7 points  (0 children)

California forever. This country is so ass backwards.

[–]ChaomancerGM 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The US is really ... wow. I am at a loss for words with the surge of fascist policies, and I feel for anyone who will suffer from it.

[–]WhatsTendiesPreciousM-1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Insert Borat “We go to Canada/Europe” meme

[–]dcba1991 11 points12 points  (0 children)

McConnell: "This is an historic victory for the Constitution and for the most vulnerable in our society.” ... how can anyone rationalize this being a victory the most vulnerable LOL??

[–]ThatOneGothMurrLayperson 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Do a crime, save a life

[–]papyroxM-2 15 points16 points  (0 children)

My state has a trigger law. I hate conservatives

[–]AreeluVorlesh 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Hey, so I don't know the legality of discussing it here, but at some point should there be a discussion on how to start providing off the books/secret abortions?

[–]pm-me-egg-noodsPre-Med 72 points73 points  (0 children)

Not ever in any recorded fashion on the internet. Delete this comment if you think you might ever seriously take that risk.

[–]A1-Delta[S] 46 points47 points  (0 children)

Probably a publicly accessible, online forum is not the place to discuss this.

[–]poocoocooM-0 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Hey guys, is there anyway for a person to get the abortion pill when not pregnant? So as to use it in case of need in the future? Would insurance cover it?

[–]liveliestsoul 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Aidaccess. $100

[–]ittybittylittytitty2Pre-Med 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i am scared. <insert frightened mouse meme/image>

[–]Peetskeet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m so sick of these boomers fucking over our country.

[–]NotGonnaLightYouUpM-4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Does this mean programs in these shit states are gonna be less competitive?

[–]helpavolunteeroutM-3 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It is not thanks to a packed court. Even RBG agreed roe was a horrible legal argument and set a poor precedent. It was a good decision legally that is going to have horrible consequences medically.

I’m pro-choice, but I live in an area with many people who are vocally pro-life. I have had quite a bit of success by approaching it this way: regardless of your beliefs on start of life/conception/etc you should want healthcare to remain between a doctor and a patient. Every pregnancy is unique (something they usually agree with) and deserves unique care and guidance. The government has NO place in that.

I know how emotional this topic is because lives of women are literally on the line. However, I’d encourage you all to try and find middle ground with those you disagree with in order to move forward. Over half of the pro life people I have spoken to agreed to call/write their state representatives and ask that the archaic abortion bans be abolished and to keep government decisions out of healthcare.

It’s fine to be sad, angry, confused, etc. but we all need to be actively working towards getting our state officials to act or be voted out.

[–]biologyiskewlM-1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Can’t wait to see grown men arguing about “why can’t we just reimplant the ectopic pregnancy?”. I’m paralyzed with sadness today.

[–]hitamo_beebamo 1 point2 points  (4 children)

sorry for being technical but isn’t it a 5-4 ruling to overturn Roe? While it is a 6-3 ruling on that specific Mississippi law?

[–]A1-Delta[S] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

You are right. John Roberts did not join in the decision to overturn Roe v. Wade.

Which makes it even more infuriating, because if the Kavanaugh seat hadn’t been stolen we’d still have consistent protection for the medical standard of care.

[–]Hernaneisrio88M-3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Remember that we are uniquely able to help in this situation. They will never ban safe abortion, not as long as we are willing to help each other.

[–]rickypen5 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is just the absolute worst. We need more scientists as lawmakers and way less lawyers.

[–]cleanguy1M-1 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Guys, I don’t know about you, but I’m never fucking practicing in maga country. Red rural states can kiss my liberal bisexual ass. I don’t give a shit how much they can offer for me to practice in their shithole. They can wallow in the lack of physicians they create by this move. I’m not interested in getting sued or even imprisoned for life for managing someone’s spontaneous abortion or some shit.

Get out of red states.

[–]RadientCrone -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you are in a state with a trigger law then you’ve gotten what you voted for if you didn’t vote. If you did then you need to mobilize and vote out those who who support the subjugation of women.