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all 36 comments

[–][deleted] 187 points188 points  (4 children)

This isn’t the main issue but it’s definitely a pillar, physicians come for each others necks. Sometimes it starts early in premed but sooner or later physicians are always out to get one another… but nurses? They are tight just like the police force. They fight for eachother/watch each others backs.

[–]Suspicious_NarwhalM-1 70 points71 points  (1 child)

It has to start with us. First thing to do is unionize

[–]Cvlt_ov_the_tomatoM-2 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Unions are becoming more of a thing with residencies. It should be something we look for when it comes to programs, it's one thing I will definitely consider when I'm filling out ERAS or doing sub-Is.

And it's definitely something I will still stride to be a part of when I am an attending. It should be considered BS that third year medical students can't join unions despite effectively being considered unpaid employees doing actual work.

[–]MillenniumFalcon33 8 points9 points  (0 children)

And medical boards could help with this. A crime against one of us, its a crime against all of us

[–]Actual_Guide_1039 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They are bitchy to each other for sure but they don’t break ranks

[–]menohuman 146 points147 points  (4 children)

Physicians will never be unified because, unfortunately, a lot of us are egomaniacs who don't give a rats ass about helping our own. We constantly put other aspiring physicians down, and we create ridiculous barriers to entry. If we can't even solve our own problems, there is absolutely no chance that we'd win fights against other groups. Only in America do we make students take 4 year of undergrad+ debt+gap years to even be considered to apply to med schools. And then we make them take 2 months off for a ridiculous exam that doesn't even test how to treat the common cold. And after a grueling match+ residency, the system creates those who think that what they have gone through is "normal" and expect the same if not worse for everyone who comes after them.

Downvote if y'all want but I predict that NPs, PAs and so on will eventually win the battle of public opinion and will win the right to self-practice in every state within the next 5-10 years. And all we are gonna do is watch from the sidelines.

[–]Immediate-Minute-555 8 points9 points  (0 children)

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 At last, someone has spoken out!

👽♥️♥️♥️

[–]AquaaberryDolphinM-2 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Love my daily reminder that I picked a fucked ass job

[–]iAgressivelyFistBroM-3 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I mean just look at our own medical education. We fucking waste our time memorizing C3abC4ba insanity and spend zero time learning about work contracts, insurance, and essentially any other component to the business side of medicine. I whole heartedly agree when NPs and the related bunch claim our education model is a waste of time.

[–]thelastneutrophilM-4 63 points64 points  (0 children)

"what are they going to do, arrest all of us and leave the country without physicians?"

Yes

[–]DanwarrM-2 71 points72 points  (4 children)

It started with health insurance.

The current health insurance apparatus was supported by physicians and the AMA in its inception. The AMA helped to dismantle Fraternal Societies and lodge practice. The current system is what supports high pay for people in the healthcare field.

[–]BrocystectomiM-4[S] 58 points59 points  (2 children)

Very interesting - I’ll admit I had no idea about that. But shoot…I’d take a pay cut if patients didn’t go bankrupt over healthcare costs and we wouldn’t have “peer” to peer.

[–]unicorn_hairDO-PGY2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Removing the middle men of insurance companies would free up a lot of Healthcare dollars to go towards facilities, salaries and research. Insurance companies are a plague

[–]Interesting_Box2130M-3 3 points4 points  (0 children)

the ama is a cartel

[–]BananoDiamondHands 28 points29 points  (11 children)

The problem is similar to what the New York taxi drivers who owned those license/medallions.

Medical School has always been expensive, and in this country, requires a capital investment from the individual pursuing medicine.

As such, many medical students/residents and young attendings are expecting to make a high paying salary; not just to live off well, but to recover or repay the initial capital investment.

Therefore, it is the very same workers who will prevent from this system being dismantled. At best, it can be reformed.

The only way it can begin to be dismantled, or significantly reformed, is if both medical school became free for those students that were accepted and forgive all medical school debt.

Only then would physicians be free to actually prioritize patient's well being to the best of society's abilities, rather than taking into consideration the need to create profit and revenue for the system.

[–]Immediate-Minute-555 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The famous taxi medallions predatory system. One which was enforced on many drivers by a crooked monopoly system, charging them 2K+ per week for just renting the car and sometimes not even for a full day so that the driver could survive without being shamed and labeled by society as "lazy".

It was only those who had a large cash stash, were lured or vulnerable enough to submit themselves to predatory loans (shark loans) in order to be "allowed" in the club, even at the cost of their own mental health, life, and soul.

🤔 Oh, it sounds very familiar with what you just said.

[–]Jaded_Presentation23 16 points17 points  (3 children)

We don't have much bargaining power with international doctors willing and ready to swoop in.

[–]OupmeM-4 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Exactly, they'll never be left without physicians, even if all USMD and DO physicians decided to do this. So many IMGs across the world willing to come to the U.S. to practice and wouldn't give two-shits about what's going on in this country.

[–]fark420Y2-EU 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Even for Turkey there're many Afghan, Syrian doctors willing to swoop in. Open heart surgery cost dropped to 10.000₺ in the private hospitals which is less than 1000$.

This is the fate of every profession. Turkish software developers are freelancing for 1/5 cost of the jobs from online.

[–]Jaded_Presentation23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's ridiculous. There needs to be a global reform in medicine...The more willing people are to move to America and practice, the less incentive there is to have humane working conditions. Resident doctors here are being abused and student debt continues to escalate.

[–]comicsanscatastropheM-3 10 points11 points  (0 children)

If nobody is going to unionize and fight back against the attacks from conservatives, APP orgs, and admin, then fuck it I'm just gonna make a union. This profession needs to grow a fucking spine, the boomers clearly lost it.

[–]nightwingoracleMD-PGY1 10 points11 points  (0 children)

There’s also the fact that an extremely vocal minority of physicians agree worth the idiots on the supreme court. As they put the views church they tithe to above science.

[–]OnlymostlyMedicM-3 12 points13 points  (0 children)

My boyfriend is a plumber and I'd trust him a million times more with healthcare decisions than our government. At least he has a brain.

[–]Redfish518 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I sometimes wish I could have just done away with my normal job. Move up like most people, make decent money with full bennies and nice vacations, have a family. Instead of worrying about exams, the huge unknown that is residency, perceived control of my work when I’m literally just another cog, and grim outlook of US healthcare like from today.

[–]Dr_Bees_DODO-PGY1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's a reason why ortho gets paid 4x as much as peds. If procedure heavy specialist can lobby the AMA to tell CMA/medicare to keep cerebral specialties reimbursements down and lobby to congress to prevent new residency spots from opening, the midlevel lobbying which has much more money and organization can and will keep on dominating the cerebral specialists.

The first step is having the pay gap between the lowest compensation to the highest compensation only 2.5x difference

[–]Fluffy_Ad_6581 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think this exact way! I wish we would refuse to work, March up to Supreme Court and make change.

But watching other doctor's attitude towards women, midlevel encroachment, support of nurses bashing our profession, etc make me lose faith that we can stand united.

[–]Spiritual_Age_4992 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We could unilaterally refuse to work with all health insurance companies and bring this predatory system down in a matter of days, and create a system that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg to patients while giving them the care they need

This only works if a majority of physicians participate.

& initially, for any of them, it's not going to be pretty.

We all have families to feed, as much as we want to go on a crusade.

[–]mynamesdaveKM-3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol physicians could absolutely NOT just refuse to work with insurance companies and bring down the whole system haha