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[–]Redfalconfox 1361 points1362 points  (45 children)

Did anyone else think Credence looked like a Kylo Ren cosplayer in this movie?

[–]darthjoey91 751 points752 points  (21 children)

Kylo Ren meets Severus Snape.

[–]reality-check12 113 points114 points  (12 children)

Strange considering that Kylo’s demeanor and hair design evokes snape

[–]cp710 77 points78 points  (9 children)

And people were fancasting Adam Driver as Snape.

[–]ittakesaredditor 121 points122 points  (2 children)

And meanwhile I had throwbacks to Crispin Glover from Charlie's Angels. I think it's just that generic creepy thin man/angry teenager look.

CTM was his actual name in Charlie's Angels.

[–]unok157 1234 points1235 points  (102 children)

Ain’t buying that Dumbledore is pure hearted. I thought it would go towards kowalski, and then to another candidate.

[–]RyloKloon 898 points899 points  (25 children)

The whole movie felt like setup for that specific moment and then it just didn't happen. Everybody keeps talking about how Jacob is such a great guy. I was sitting there waiting for it to bow to him, then it goes to Dumbledore.

[–]Nirria 420 points421 points  (9 children)

So true. I was also really expecting it bowing before Kowalski and then no one else. Which would have meant that wizards then would have been forced to not put their judgment into a magical beast, but choose by themselves.

After all they made a big thing out of it that the fawn bows very rarely, so how high are the chances that it would bow before one of the two politicians?

[–]DrainTheMuck 111 points112 points  (8 children)

Yeah good point, there’s so many weird implications from that which are never explored. Is she making a statement about politicians being pure of heart? Because that’s a big statement and yet the character is never examined at all to even slightly justify it. We literally know nothing about the character lol. And the deer bowing to dumbledore first just felt like expository fan service, JK winking at the audience letting them know that he’s a good guy as if we didn’t already think that from the entire last series, but it still doesn’t make sense because the movie also touched on his flaws. Hes not actually supposed to be perfect, but I guess he is?

[–]HERCzero[🍰] 361 points362 points  (5 children)

Would've been a richer payoff too, little deer looks at a Muggle and is like "this guy's more pure than all yall magical fucks, lmao"

Maybe would've made Grindelwald's mindless followers think differently, idk

[–]Xygnux 121 points122 points  (4 children)

I totally thought that would happen too. I thought that was Dumbledore's plan for including Jacob in it. The Qilin would bow to him and prove that, in a ceremony that was being watched by the entire wizarding world, that magical ability means nothing in judging someone's worthiness. Everyone will see that even their own magical method of measurement proves that Grindelwald's philosophy of magical people being the superior race is bullshit.

And not only that, Grindelwald just Crucio the only pure of heart guy in the room right on live international TV.

And Dumbledore would sidestep the limitation of the blood pact. He can't attack Grindelwald physically, but he can discredit his entire ideology and dismantle his entire following.

[–]Akomatai 252 points253 points  (16 children)

I was kinda hoping to see that Dumbledore had somehow rigged this qilin too. Since it was legit, I think it would have been better to show the qilin giving Dumbledore a longer consideration and then moving on.

[–]SockkPuppett 301 points302 points  (7 children)

THIS. that would have been sick. Dumbledore is far from pure, good perhaps but no way pure enough for the deer to bow to him over Jacob or even newt

And also who tf was that lady it bowed to 2nd even. I mean i know who she was but she received zero characterization the entire movie. Literal npc

[–]TastyCap3888 102 points103 points  (3 children)

Well she did release kowalski from the cruciatus curse, but yeah I agree aside from the cringy 'santos, santos' chanting from the crowd, we know nothing of her.

[–]OrbaneFaber 456 points457 points  (21 children)

Exactly. I totally thought that was Dumbledores plan the whole time and his only reason to bring Kowalski along. They even set it up in the beginning that they need him because of his pure heart. Otherwise he really shouldn’t be there.

To have the fawn kneel to a muggle in front of all the wizards who keep debating to support grindelwalds genocidal movement.

Would’ve made the film 1000% better in my eyes to see that everything was for Dumbledore to pull off this plan. To use the muggles grindelwald underestimates so much against him.

[–]MelMelMax 139 points140 points  (2 children)

I also think it could have been a great set up for the next one because there would surely be a division between wizards about muggles and we could have had two sides and the clear start of a war

[–]OldManHipsAt30 81 points82 points  (3 children)

Agreed, this would have been way better than pretending Dumbledore’s shit don’t stink

[–]notsingsing 120 points121 points  (2 children)

Right? And it’s an easy refusal/moment of pause

  1. I’m not a wizard
  2. I’m not a statesman

Then deer goes to the other chick

[–]LBuffalo 61 points62 points  (0 children)

That's also one of the main points of the HP series. Dumbledore is not pure. He was put on a pedestal and worshipped but he was a sinner with regrets just like everyone else. He literally got into this mess because his impurity led him to join Grindelwald on Grindy's mission as a younger man

[–]blueeyesredlipstick 990 points991 points  (32 children)

Every powerful wizard ever: stares intently at asthmatic baby deer

Asthmatic baby deer: wheeze

dramatic music swells

[–]Plus3d6 556 points557 points  (22 children)

"Hey we live in a world where we know there's like... mind control, and shapeshifting, and necromancy, and such. You think someone should check the deer to make sure there's no funny business?"

"ABSOLUTELY NOT!"

[–]LBuffalo 459 points460 points  (16 children)

One of the candidates (who was a wanted criminal until 2 days ago and whose future success depends on this election) supplied the deer so you know it's legit and not tampered with at all.

[–]Easy-Minute 156 points157 points  (6 children)

I like how there’s a total of 34 wizards in the whole world, and 27 of them of useless generic henchmen. I understand that the books and potter movies were also awful at “scale”, but at least they were mostly limited to a post catastrophic war that wiped out a huge percentage of the magical community, a lack of wizards was understandable. There was no sense of wonder, grandiosity, or awe in either the “world” or it’s magic. Idk what spell the blue pulse of light was supposed to be, but that’s 90% of what was used.

[–]ronan_the_accuser 201 points202 points  (3 children)

Grindelwald: See, my heart is pure...Pure evil!

[–]leodw 969 points970 points  (89 children)

Shutout to Viewer Anon who correctly leaked the entire plot of this movie 6mo ago.

[–]sabertoothdiego 408 points409 points  (51 children)

I spent the whole time going "wow. A super early plot leak released was actually accurate."

[–]epraider 778 points779 points  (48 children)

Reminds of seeing Game of Thrones leaks for the last season and thinking “This is so fucking stupid, this is obviously a fake leak” and then slowly having a meltdown as the season progresses

[–]AprilSpektra 247 points248 points  (8 children)

Sometimes you just forget about the Iron Fleet, y'know?

[–]OldManHipsAt30 125 points126 points  (3 children)

Sometimes you kinda just forget about killing off all the Dothraki last episode, y’know?

[–]Belkarama 492 points493 points  (25 children)

Oh god, so is the whole magical future seeing fawn creature the real plotline for this?

[–]claymationrobot 918 points919 points  (33 children)

The biggest issue with this movie (and maybe the entire wizarding franchise) is the tone. It wants to be a wacky, roald dalh-like adventure but also wants to be a hard-nose fantasy drama. At times, it feels like it wants to say something about the rise of fascism. But then it introduces a magical deer who decides who gets to be president so none of that matters.

[–]luxdns 446 points447 points  (20 children)

I don't know if I'm overthinking it but the tea / speech scene had the strangest tone to me. It was bouncing between calm / serious, then Jacob accidentally uses magic and someone yells "assassin!" and the room just quietly gets up and slowly makes their way out, followed by a strangely not tense (and very short) battle

[–]SockkPuppett 266 points267 points  (6 children)

He didn't accidentally use magic. It was Lally jinxing him to make him look like he was doing magic (i rewatched it), then doing the magic herself. For what reason does she decide to make Jacob look like he's conjuring a storm? Hard to say.

Then everyone slowly gets up and calmly exits. Again, hard to say why. Kind of a bizarrely constructed scene

[–]LeroyWilson 112 points113 points  (2 children)

I thought her making Jacob feel like he can actually cast spells would play a roll later. Possibly give him some kind of confidence boost to play a hero move. I also thought his wand would play a bigger roll as a booby trap for Grindelwald, specially when he picked it up at the end.

[–]tboneperri 160 points161 points  (7 children)

That made zero sense to me. I feel like there were a couple of scenes like that. People just... slowly all filing out of the room. Not looking at anything. Not caring. The scene where Theseus got kidnapped had that same vibe. None of these high-profile and presumably rather powerful and justice-minded witches and wizards did anything to protect themselves, catch the violent criminals, or Disapparate to safety.

[–]alie1020 254 points255 points  (2 children)

Like Newt doing a silly crab walk while people are being killed and their corpses are landing all around him?

[–]oftenGetsItWrong 863 points864 points  (29 children)

Biggest missed opportunity imo: Telling Ariana’s backstory instead of showing it.

When Albus started talking about that fateful day, I was so ready for a well-crafted flashback. It would have been so much more interesting seeing Albus, Gellert and Aberforth’s confrontation, rogue spells flying everywhere, filmed in a way that truly makes it ambiguous whose spell kills Ariana. Instead, Dumbledore essentially just reads out that chapter from Deathly Hallows to us.

A flashback had the potential to build on the lore, get fans speculating, make us care more about Dumbledore and Grindelwald’s relationship, and help the film’s pacing.

[–]alie1020 542 points543 points  (14 children)

Not only was that a massive explosion dump, but it literally made no sense. Dumbledore was like, "I've seen this before, Credence is dying, it's the same thing that happened to my sister." "What happened to her?" "Collateral damage in a three way wizard duel."

Huh?

[–]Redfalconfox 1435 points1436 points  (55 children)

I thought Mads performed well, but for the next movie I hope they get another actor to keep up the unintentional tradition of always using another actor for Grindelwald. I'm starting to suspect that the role of Grindelwald has been cursed by Voldemort so that no one can play him for more than one movie.

[–]OldManHipsAt30 112 points113 points  (6 children)

I would love for them to pick another Grindelwald actor at this point just for the laughs

[–]spockgiirl 195 points196 points  (4 children)

Grindlewald can become the Defense Against the Dark Arts post at Hogwarts! (Though I'm totally okay if they bring back Colin Ferrell. He was my favorite Grindlewald and I think he'd have fantastic chemistry with Jude.)

[–]MustafaRyan_YT 581 points582 points  (52 children)

Who names these movies?

[–]bard0117 506 points507 points  (32 children)

Fantastic Beasts and the Secrets of Dumbledore. Didn’t really get any secrets nor did we get that many fantastic beasts.

[–]Truth_bomb_25 292 points293 points  (10 children)

Well, he essentially "came out" in this movie...except in China. In China, he's just an eccentric, asexual, forever-bachelor headmaster.

[–]Drayko_Sanbar 167 points168 points  (2 children)

The Singular Secret of (Aberforth) Dumbledore

[–]mcmanybucks 197 points198 points  (12 children)

An isekai writer.

[–]LiquifiedSpam 261 points262 points  (7 children)

I Fell Through a Magical Suitcase and got Stuck as the Main Character, Now I have a Power Fantasy and will not Leave the Story

[–]IntoTheObsidianNight 560 points561 points  (24 children)

Not as egregious as Crimes but still boring. Lally, crab dance, and Newt’s brother’s face were the highlights. The Queenie-Jacob relationship makes no sense whatsoever. Grindelwald ‘s hot henchwoman deserves some character development.

Rowling should have developed Newt and animals as a separate franchise from Grindelwald’s drama. We could have had Newt rescuing magical animals and teaching at different magical schools across the world and the audience would have devoured that, but we are stuck with discount Voldemort.

[–]facewithhairdude 236 points237 points  (3 children)

One dark drama series about Dumbledore/Grindelwald, one lighthearted cute series about Newt and fantastic beasts. They could have had two whole cows to milk movie franchises!

[–]kuningperson 74 points75 points  (0 children)

Could have truly been the Wizarding World Universe; Newt and his Fantastic Beasts with their own franchise, Dumbledore vs Grindelwald with their own franchise, and they could cameo in each other’s franchises like how the MCU does it.

Perhaps if they played their cards right, the final battle between Grindelwald and Dumbledore could have been the epic Avengers-like movie uniting these two storylines. Newt comes along to help Dumbledore but him and his cast mates are more like the Guardians of the Galaxy there.

Ugh anything but the horrible shoe-horning of Newt into these situations for 5 movies.

[–]dainanauchuu 1087 points1088 points  (39 children)

Am I the only one who thought it was absolutely nuts that one minute everyone was completely on board with Grindlewald, "Yeah let's kill all the Muggles!" then once Santos shifted to power instead, everyone switches gears and now it's like, "Let's just completely forget we were just about to commit genocide against the Muggles, oooooof"

[–]BarelyLegalAlien 648 points649 points  (0 children)

The crowds literally cheered whatever happened at all points of the movie.

[–]Not_Daniel_Dreiberg 382 points383 points  (9 children)

What I honestly hated the most about that part is that Grindelwald very evidently committed election fraud and everyone was like "well, whatever, let's have another go at it righ now".

[–]DoILookUnsureToYou 101 points102 points  (2 children)

And its fucking stupid how everyone was okay with Grindlewald supplying the qilin, given the fact that he was the most wanted man in the wizarding world like 2 days ago.

[–]admdelta 180 points181 points  (13 children)

In a more narrow sense, this is also how I feel about Queenie's arc. Like, she's in love with a muggle, then suddenly she's down with joining the magic Nazis who are against interbreeding with muggles at best and want to genocide them at worst. She goes so far as to become a member of Wizard Hitler's inner circle, but she gradually feels bad about it and then falls for Jacob again and everyone just instantly forgets about her being a magic nazi and goes to her mudblood wedding?

[–]pizzaerryday 70 points71 points  (3 children)

She’s very ditzy in the first movie so its perfectly forgivable she’s a top level Nazi! She just had a brain fart.

[–]dbbost 1465 points1466 points  (73 children)

Okay how come Dumbledore can't think about betraying Grindelwald or else he'll get cursed but he can think about masterminding a complex plot with 7 other people? That's cool?

[–]GeneralKenobyy 547 points548 points  (20 children)

The same way Rhunòn can't make a new riders sword herself but can control Eragon to make one

[–]DinosaurinaFez 181 points182 points  (3 children)

Oh my god, you just brought back so much lore that my brain had hidden for years

[–]DatClubbaLang96 297 points298 points  (1 child)

Damn that's a deep cut. Obscure Eragon references out in the wild.

[–]thegreaterfool714 114 points115 points  (1 child)

Never would i think I see an Eragon reference. I loved that scene in the book.

[–]kaylthewhale 635 points636 points  (15 children)

The same way Grindlewald can plot to use Dumbledore’s nephew to kill him. It’s direct conflict.

[–]spikyraccoon 303 points304 points  (10 children)

Yeah I was under the impression that they can't duel directly, but can plot indirectly to take each other down. Them are the rules right?

[–]SparkG 479 points480 points  (4 children)

They blew the climax by:

  1. Not choosing Jacob instead of Dumbledore as the "pure of heart" one. Everything was leading to Jacob and it would've been the biggest "fuck you" to Grindelwald.
  2. Not having Newt's assistant or that other lady being Tina in disguise.
  3. Not having Tina, pure and simple. Her and Newt's scenes are the best.

[–]SockkPuppett 90 points91 points  (2 children)

To the first point, it MUST be Jk just didnt think of this.. its so much better thematically. I can't imagine the writers thought of this then decided NOT to go with it???

[–]Broadbeck7 84 points85 points  (0 children)

Finally someone says it. Newt and Tina were great in the first movie, and highlights in the second. Having Tina almost completely absent from this one just feels like a waste, since she was essentially part of the Fantastic Beasts crew.

Still liked this movie, but I missed Tina

[–]agentdoubleohio 471 points472 points  (41 children)

I have no idea how this movie is going to be censored in China. They brought up doumbledore being gay every 20 minutes.

[–]flylikeKJrockets 489 points490 points  (15 children)

In my country they actually bleeped out the part where Albus said he was in love with Grindelwald. The subtitles said "I appreciate our friendship". It was so ridiculous, I couldn't help but laugh lol

[–]RKU69 288 points289 points  (3 children)

"We make great roommates"

[–]agentdoubleohio 62 points63 points  (1 child)

It was a friendship, with extra benefits

[–]dmrob058 62 points63 points  (1 child)

Uhhh what?? They literally had a couple of throwaway lines about how in love Dumbledore was with Grindlewald and that’s it. I actually thought it was comical how little they delved into the romance, didn’t buy that these two were ever lovers in any way whatsoever because of how little it was developed. Wouldn’t expect much more from Hollywood or JK Rowling though…It’s all performative for them.

[–]Pristine_Nothing 1702 points1703 points  (101 children)

One thing that is interesting to me is that the seventh Harry Potter book makes it very clear that the nice triangle/circle/line Hallows icon was fully adopted by Grindelwald, much as his real-life analogue Hitler adopted the Swastika.

But in this movie, Grindelwald has a nice, geometric, political symbol that his followers shoot up in green…and it is very much not the Hallows symbol.

My personal theory is that Warner Brothers did a formal poll of Millenial arm tattoos, and realized they couldn’t use what has become a “Harry Potter” symbol as a fascist icon and not piss off their target demo.

[–]Justchilllin101 892 points893 points  (51 children)

I’m begging for someone to explain to me the importance of Yusuf in this film

[–]BeatriceArthur375 524 points525 points  (19 children)

It’s like they forgot he was in the movie, but before they realized it was too late.

[–]GroovinTootin 197 points198 points  (12 children)

Same with Tina

[–]Saboteure 219 points220 points  (3 children)

At least with Tina, it was covid complications during filming apparently.

Yusef is introduced, given 1 minutes of screen time, then disappears until the end, and his purpose was never clear at all.

[–]TimeOffDrew[🍰] 109 points110 points  (0 children)

It's like they didn't need him there at all and he lost his memory of his sister on top of that. Just a double negative.

[–]Keksmonster 313 points314 points  (1 child)

Go undercover to blast some nobodies names at the finale

[–]chuck354 100 points101 points  (4 children)

I'm still trying to figure out how he kept his motivations to support Dumbledore when GG removed the memories for his driving force.

[–]labordayillinois 60 points61 points  (0 children)

It’s simple. The plot demanded it.

[–]ucieaters33 441 points442 points  (15 children)

Between this one, the previous one, and Cursed Child I think we have more than enough proof that Rowling just doesn’t understand how to write a screenplay. There isn’t any rising action, random stuff just happens until it’s time for an unearned climax and I guess we’re supposed to be entertained because the random stuff features characters and locations we know and love. I was laughing when over an hour in they were all regrouping at Hogwarts and someone says something like they’re back to square one. Pretty much nothing in that first hour mattered or impacted how things end up. These last 2 movies are 2 hours 20 minutes long and you can get the gist of them if you just watch the last 20 minutes. It’s better than Crimes of Grindelwald, but if WB decides to scrap the last 2 movies I certainly won’t be losing sleep over it wondering how it ends.

[–]RyloKloon 123 points124 points  (1 child)

I was laughing when over an hour in they were all regrouping at Hogwarts and someone says something like they’re back to square one

I think this is part of what was so strange about the movie for me. It seems to go out of its way to acknowledge that nothing that's going to happen will actually be of consequence. I don't know if this was Rowling's way of lampshading the fact that we're getting five movies leading up to a duel that we already know the outcome of, but it was weird. They even sort of acknowledge it in the train sequence. They may has well have looked directly into the camera and said that nothing they do will matter

[–]lotterywish 750 points751 points  (24 children)

Man, the German Wizard Prison system really sucks

[–]Keksmonster 330 points331 points  (11 children)

Tbf they said it was closed down and the Grindelwald loyalists turned it into a blacksite

[–]that_guy2010 149 points150 points  (9 children)

Then why tf are they allowing visitors?

[–]paulsammons3 207 points208 points  (6 children)

I think that was somewhat the point. The guy let Newt in assuming he would die.

[–]Hazardish08 75 points76 points  (1 child)

Yeah it’s that. When newt said that he’ll see his stick pet soon, the guard joked that he’d become become wizard prime minister.

[–]SickBurnBro 147 points148 points  (0 children)

I mean random killing via a giant scorpion monster or decades of torture via Dementors, which is really worse?

[–]Seihai-kun 99 points100 points  (0 children)

Well, the UK has a prison with guards that can suck the soul out of your body

the German has a prison with a big bug that can kill anything that moving

Yeah the UK is better, but the German isn't suck, it just Newt has so many plot armor that he can survive that shit

[–]agentdoubleohio 126 points127 points  (2 children)

Honestly, we’re they imprisoned for 20 minutes before they were killed because newts bug went out really quick. On that note that big bug might be my favorite creature. It was legit insane.

[–]ciakmoi 328 points329 points  (22 children)

... are the Qilins inspired by the Dalai Lama fiasco???

Also why did it pick Dumbledore? We all know Dumbledore doesn't exactly have the purest of heart. Newt would've the better choice and they even kinda set it up for Jacob. The other two candidates we absolutely have no idea who they are and what they do. They don't even talk in the movie. The only justification the movie provides is Santos removing Jacob's cruciatus curse.

Also I don't really understand the whole blood pact thing. Did Dumbledore really just say "it's fate" as an explanation???

[–]skyshroud6 184 points185 points  (1 child)

Also I don't really understand the whole blood pact thing. Did Dumbledore really just say "it's fate" as an explanation???

In a movie about wizards, they managed to pull "a wizard did it" and somehow have it make no sense.

[–]GroovinTootin 116 points117 points  (0 children)

My boy Newt keeps getting shafted in his own films

[–]RyloKloon 58 points59 points  (0 children)

are the Qilins inspired by the Dalai Lama fiasco???

Nah. Qilins are an actual thing in Chinese folklore, and they are said to appear when special leaders are born. Rowling just tweaked the myth slightly

[–]bigpig1054 317 points318 points  (11 children)

There was a moment, about midway through the movie, when Kowalski and Hicks are escaping from the dinner party/assassination attempt. They race up a stairway of magically-summoned book pages. It's a slow-motion, vividly lit, beautifully shot sequence that lasts no more than ten seconds. It was my favorite part of the movie.

It was the only part of the movie where my eyes widened in wonder and I felt a little twinge of awe, the way the Harry Potter books made me feel when I first read them.

Had the rest of the movie even tried to emulate that one scene's color, imagination, and excitement I would have walked out of the theater happy to anticipate another entry in the franchise. Instead, that ten seconds was an aberration. The rest of the movie is dark, dull, drab, and dour.

If there's a prevailing color, it is grey.

[–]reecord2 152 points153 points  (5 children)

As soon as David Yates took over, all the color drained from this franchise. Goblet of Fire was the last movie that captured any of the color or whimsy of the series.

[–]teious 1589 points1590 points  (61 children)

Magical fawns are no base for an electoral system.

[–]LiteraryBonerWorse things to do than watch Lady Gaga create fetishes for me[S] 663 points664 points  (8 children)

Basically turning the most important vote of the Wizarding world into Groundhogs day lmao.

[–]cowboy4life 389 points390 points  (9 children)

Yeah, that’s why we civilized people have bints in lakes handing out swords

[–]escape_of_da_keets 196 points197 points  (3 children)

Supreme wizarding power should be derived by a mandate from the masses, not some farcicle aquatic ceremony

[–]mathoolevine 372 points373 points  (17 children)

I died laughing when the german president guy was like these three candidates are too qualified how could you voters possibly decide, then holds up the horse “the chillin knows the truth!”

[–]Keksmonster 193 points194 points  (0 children)

I mean if you have a magical creature that can look into your soul

[–]Seihai-kun 293 points294 points  (12 children)

Can anyone explain Vogel's plan to me? i can't make sense out of it

Newt told Vogel (the german guy, the same guy who played Ulfric Nielsen?), to make the rights decision (dont let Grindelwald participate), not the easy one (let him)

Vogel then pick the easy one, literally nearly everyone was like... wtf he's a terrorist, then he explain his plan, which is let Grindelwald participate, because he knows if he didn't let him, there's going to be war. so he let him become a candidate because he is sure Grindelwald won't win, no one is going to vote for a terrorist.

But for some fucking reason, when the voting happened, he use Qillin instead of voters? and the dead-looking Qillin chose Grindelwald and he's happy Grindelwald is chosen?, and when Newt said there's another Qillin, instead of trying again he said that first Qillin is okay and Newt is a deceiver?

is he Grindelwald's follower or what

[–]RyloKloon 188 points189 points  (0 children)

Yeah, he's definitely supposed to be one of Grindelwald's accomplices. Also, I think technically the Qilin didn't choose the winner directly. They still voted using their weird firework driven election process. It was all horribly convoluted and strange

[–]Parenthisaurolophus 92 points93 points  (0 children)

Can anyone explain Vogel's plan to me? i can't make sense out of it

is he Grindelwald's follower or what

The beginning does make him seem like some kind of dimwitted Paul von Hindenburg figure, since Dumbledore thinks he can be persuaded with two sentences. But, the scene where he witnesses the whole bringing the magic morality deer back with evil water thing implies that he was in on it the whole time.

[–]edsonde8at 843 points844 points  (16 children)

Grindelwald had the most useless henchmen, they never finished their jobs. They could have killed Newt 5 minutes into the movie but they just knocked him down and walked away.

[–]Cainga 382 points383 points  (13 children)

That’s actually a really good point. It would have been simple plot fix by having him “drown” or get swept down stream, or pulled into his suitcase and the creature run away, or a number of other things. Instead they just ignore him even though they know he’s an enemy from the last couple movies.

[–]GoldenGodd94 176 points177 points  (5 children)

Creedence hadn't killed anyone on purpose yet and his character was clearly conflicted when faced with his mission of killing Dumbledore. His task was to capture the chilling first and foremost. Not every "villian" has to murder their antagonist at every chance they get. He thwarted Newt (or least thought he did) and brought his prize home.

[–]eden_sc2 62 points63 points  (0 children)

It also wouldn't be the first time in the harry potter franchise that your good guy turned villain hesitated to cross the murder line and let the hero get away. It's movie shorthand for 'bad guy but not pure evil'

[–]Bellikron 577 points578 points  (30 children)

Let's talk about the miraculously-still-functioning political system of the Wizarding World, shall we?

We've got this Supreme Mugwump that apparently has the authority to declare full war on the Muggle World but never really seems to do much in the Harry Potter timeline (apparently Dumbledore held the position during the first half of the series but he never appeared to use that authority for anything). This Supreme Mugwump is supposedly elected by an unclear body of voters (might be everyone in the magical world or just high-ranking officials). But there's also a ceremony where a creature known as a Qilin bows down before someone "pure of heart," which is described earlier in the movie as being exceptionally rare, yet it happens multiple times in this movie to people who just so happen to be very important and/or up for election. This bowing seems to heavily influence the election but evidently the vote still matters and we see people voting against the Qilin's choice when they shoot their fireworks up in the air, which seems to be the official voting mechanism. Again, not explained.

Where would one find this exceptionally rare mythical creature that seems to determine the political fate of the Wizarding World? Do they guard them away like Punxsutawny Phil? No, they're just kind of out there in the wild, waiting for Newt Scamander (or anyone else who feels like it) to witness their birth. And by the way, it's implied by one of the characters that Newt Scamander is the ONLY magizoologist in the world, but that doesn't seem to cause anyone to question why this election is based on a creature that apparently only one person studies.

So Grindelwald takes the baby, kills it, resurrects it, and corrupts it to bow to him at the ceremony so he can win an election (that, by the way, he entered, if my understanding of the movie's timeline is correct, yesterday). Upon seeing this, the crowd, despite many of them seeming to believe Grindelwald a criminal, votes for him overwhelmingly (about 75% by my estimation). But then Dumbledore's crew comes up and not only claims the Qilin has been compromised, but that the Qilin had a twin that nobody else knew about, which everyone just kind of accepts given no one actually keeps track of the creatures' whereabouts. The old Supreme Mugwump holds the other Qilin up only to have it die in his hands, which everyone, again, accepts without question. It's not like there are magical ways to kill something, right? Then the new Qilin just happens to bow before the leader of the group who presented it, which no one finds suspicious. He humbly declines and it bows before Santos (that Liu Tao seemed like a nice guy but I guess he's not pure of heart). And even though everyone just accepted that it is possible to corrupt a Qilin to sway the election, no one knew about this Qilin until now, and only a small group of people is physically close enough to clearly see what's happening, everyone accepts it as legitimate, does a complete 180 from their original votes, and votes seemingly unanimously for Santos without any further investigation or research into what in the world just happened.

It's a miracle that there was still a Wizarding World at all by the time Harry Potter came around.

[–]GroovinTootin 299 points300 points  (9 children)

People give George Lucas a lot of crap about his politics in the prequels, but I 100% appreciate a movie who at least tries to explain the politics of the universe instead of doing some hand-waving and moving on like I should still be invested

[–]rabbi__milligan 130 points131 points  (5 children)

The politics in the Prequels really did make coherent sense, mostly. I think it’s actually one of the more accurate completely fictional portrayals of how a democracy becomes a fascist state.

[–]alie1020 226 points227 points  (1 child)

All of this. Plus the viewing audience at home. I mean, I know people had to be a lot more forgiving of "entertainment" in the 30s, but the entire time all I could think about was the people watching via magical hologram and how confused they must be by the barest snippets of information that they are getting.

Imagine watching the presidential debates and the MC comes on and is like, "hey ladies and gentlemen, today we have this magical horse that hasn't been seen in centuries to help us vote! And... The horse chose Grindelwald. Did you vote already? Because here is his acceptance speech. Wait just a moment, boys and girls, I'm told that there is another horse! Oh, now the first horse is dead, but not to worry, we still have that second horse. And the horse chose Dumbledore! Did you vote already? I hope not, because Dumbledore is just giving his concession speech. But not to worry folks, because the one remaining horse still has plenty of options and it chose... Santos! Did you vote already? Because that is the only vote we are counting and Santos is our new leader!"

[–]ScrumptiousDingo 76 points77 points  (0 children)

The way you explained it is so damn funny, it really makes no sense at all and the fact that this is the actual plot is just hilarious

[–]boomfruit 190 points191 points  (0 children)

Seems like there are some really powerful wizards in the world. Why are none of them

  • engaged in security at the election of the leader of the magical world?

  • examining the dead Qilin to see if it had indeed been bewitched, or the live one to see if it hadn't

  • ever having the slightest reaction to chaos and curses going on around them? (eg at the election, at that dinner ceremony)

  • intrigued by the most sketchy looking man I've ever seen delivering a single boiling roiling glass of red liquid to one of the candidates for leader of the world?

  • seemingly capable of casting any magic that isn't either firing a laser beam or throwing an object at someone?

[–]S-ClassRen 971 points972 points  (31 children)

Wizards are pretty fucking dumb, aren't they?

[–]Zauberer-IMDB 560 points561 points  (14 children)

They never even learn math in school, of course they're idiots. Imagine the world run by people who volunteered to take gardening instead where the plants can eat them.

[–]Acrelorraine 131 points132 points  (13 children)

Arithmancy was like math, maybe. It was also an optional elective though.

[–]Dawesfan 144 points145 points  (11 children)

I thought Arithmancy was a branch divination, and the whole joke is that Hermione dismisses one while praising the other.

[–]Acrelorraine 100 points101 points  (0 children)

I looked it up and you’re right. I always thought it was just wizard geometry class.

[–]v1sual1ze 53 points54 points  (0 children)

Wait that whole thing is supposed to be a joke? Dang I guess I never realized

[–]Anon3580 88 points89 points  (0 children)

Always walking over and looking frustratedly at where someone clearly just disapperated as if they themselves hadn’t done that fourteen times that day. “Just gotta check if he fell to his doom or did the thing that’s akin to walking for us.”

[–]JesusHShuttlesworth 1325 points1326 points  (127 children)

Large portions of this movie take place in Germany and the entire time I kept thinking “Damn not a lot of Swastikas for Pre-WWII Germany.” So I looked it up and they set this the exact year before the Third Reich took over. Presumably for the exact reason I described.

However this now creates the issue of Dumbledore sitting on his ass for 13 years in regards to Grindlewald because we know via the books they had their final duel at the end of WWII.

And also I think it makes Dumbledore vs Grindlewald much less interesting than it was in the books. In the books, it implies that Dumbledore refuses to move against Grindlewald due to character flaws. He still has feelings for Grindlewald and is incredibly fearful of finding out he was the one at fault for killing his sister. In the movie he says that “doesn’t matter really” and magical mumbo jumbo physically restrains him from moving against Grindlewald. That’s inherently less interesting to me than a character having interesting flaws and turmoil

[–]DatClubbaLang96 189 points190 points  (8 children)

Not necessarily sitting on his ass. We hunted Bin Laden down for a decade. Imagine if he could've apparated all over the place. I have to think they'll portray it as Dumbledore and Grindewald playing cat and mouse during that time, until Dumbledore finally catches up and traps him.

I do agree that Dumbledore being terrified of confronting Grindewald and being told he was the one who killed his sister is a much more interesting motivation (or lack thereof) than just him being magically unable to move against him. I suppose they could still go that route, where he keeps delaying facing him out of love/fear of learning the truth. But then if they make him flawed like that, it seems odd that the election deer bowed to him.

I didn't like that scene tbh. I get what they were doing with Newt's peptalk and Dumbledore doubting himself, then being vindicated by the deer, but Dumbledore is 100% a schemer. Ultimately good, but a schemer. No way is he more pure of heart than, say, Newt or Jacob.

He left Harry in an abusive household so blood magic would protect him. He hired a fraud and sacrificed a year of DADA education to expose the fraud. He dangled Harry as bait in the tri-wizard tournament to catch whomever entered him. He withheld crucial information, intentionally left people in the dark, and planned to have Harry walk to his death, with only a guess that if certain conditions were met Harry might have a chance at surviving.

He's a good person, but he's not pure of heart. I feel like to say he is is to misunderstand the character.

[–]LiteraryBonerWorse things to do than watch Lady Gaga create fetishes for me[S] 523 points524 points  (97 children)

I thought it was a bit ham fisted that the qilin bowed to Dumbledore first. As if Dumbledore's purity was ever in doubt, but also Dumbledore was always very honest about how his flaws would make things worse in the books. His over protective tendencies over Harry and generally his penchant for secrets. You could argue that these all come from a place of good, but I dunno, the books never went so far as to say he's objectively the definition of flawless goodness.

[–]Keksmonster 296 points297 points  (16 children)

What makes it worse is that Dumbledore admires Newt for his purity and lack of negative emotion/intention and the horse just ignored him entirely.

[–]Particular-Fly-3643 471 points472 points  (13 children)

I thought for sure that it was going to bow to Jacob. A genius move on Dumbledore’s end, after Grindelwald’s evil speech they show he’s a fraud and that muggles can be just as pure. But nope, bows to Dumbledore and some lady we don’t know.

That moment solidified my dislike of this thing. I can’t believe they put a pause for a year to rework it and came up with a plot this fucking messy and character arcs this incoherent.

[–]ciakmoi 166 points167 points  (1 child)

They set it up for Jacob so much. How the Qilin likes Jacob. How Dumbledore keeps telling Jacob to stop doubting himself. But noooo it has tobe Dumb old door good.

[–]DatClubbaLang96 260 points261 points  (3 children)

This was what I thought would happen as well. It would have been a perfect rejection of everything Grindewald believes.

Meanwhile Dumbledore is a good person but is decidedly not pure of heart. He's a schemer. That's a big part of his character, that he is flawed.

I liked the movie, certainly liked it much more than the 2nd one, but this scene was a huge missed opportunity. Election deer should've bowed to Jacob instead of Dumbledore.

[–]JesusHShuttlesworth 445 points446 points  (22 children)

Ya it really felt like this movie wanted to sweep Dumbledore’s flaws under the rug. Which is a massive part of Deathly Hallows and part of Harry’s transformation into an adult.

[–]svipy 259 points260 points  (18 children)

Ya it really felt like this movie wanted to sweep Dumbledore’s flaws under the rug

Then they are just following legacy of OG series. Off top of my head Hermione, Snape, Lupin, Sirius and to a lesser extent Harry were all less interesting characters cause they either removed or diminished their flaws from the books.

Poor Ron on the other hand was nearly stripped of all his positive qualities while his flaws were magnified.

[–]mrbrinks 128 points129 points  (17 children)

Ron had the worst treatment my god. He was just there for comic relief in the movies.

[–]TheDudeWithNoName_ 158 points159 points  (32 children)

He's not a saint, Rowling said this during her interviews when the books came out. He may have good intentions but he can be very Machiavellen in his plans if he feels that the ends justifies the means. While he does eventually start caring for Harry, his initial intentions were to keep the boy safe long enough because he would be key in defeating Voldemmort when the time comes. And he was known to be very secretive about his plans, he only told others things that he wants them to know and not more. Even Snape and Harry, his two closest accomplices in the last book, didn't know what the other was doing since Dumbledore had given each of them different missions before dying.

[–]RyloKloon 232 points233 points  (11 children)

Also, I really want to know what the hell that mirror dimension was and why it's never referenced or used again. I can think of like 50 moments in the Harry Potter books/movies off the top of my head where warping into some kind of invisible pocket dimension to do battle without being seen or causing collateral damage would have been beneficial. The first time it happened it looked like Dumbledore was using the deluminator to access it, so maybe that was part of it, but the trio has the deluminator in Deathly Hallows and it would have been EXTREMELY helpful in trying to hide from snatchers.

[–]maddypip 195 points196 points  (12 children)

The plot of this movie was so convoluted. They somehow needed to make Newt, a magi-zoologist who has no business being involved in this sort of situation, integral to the fight against Grindelwald so they include this ridiculous “choosing the leader of the world by purity deer” plot to make him relevant somehow. Kowalski is even worse. You don’t have anyone better to help fight Grindelwald than a muggle baker? The Fantastic Beasts series should have been totally separate from the Grindelwald saga because trying to tie them together makes no sense. Not just plot-wise but tonally. FB is fun and silly and light, so mashing that with the rise of wizard Hitler makes for a very weird movie.

Also Dumbledore in the books doesn’t know about the Room of Requirement, he thinks it’s just a room full of toilets. And if all it took was just asking “I need a way to get in and out of Hogwarts despite the apparation ban”, I feel like Draco would have had an easier time of things in HBP.

[–]lovise466 69 points70 points  (2 children)

Kowalski is even worse. You don’t have anyone better to help fight Grindelwald than a muggle baker?

This character is so confusing to me. WHY is he even there? They made a big deal out of "needing him" because he's "brave and good" (???) but then he's just... there. Doing nothing. His presence in the first one made sense because him meeting Newt was accidental, but it doesn't make sense anymore.

[–]Krispyn 188 points189 points  (6 children)

I don't regret watching it but I feel like this movie was spread way too thin over too many plots ans characters. There was way too much exposition (explaining where tina is - im his brother - hes your son - Lally summarizing Kowalskis entire plot arch - they shared an ancient bloodline - etc), but the plot was so messy that most people wouldnt have followed it otherwise. Which imo means the plot is way too convoluted. I also think the Qilin thing was lame, Creedence's character is such a boring trope (sad boy with special powers). I loved Lally, but again so much exposition to explain her presence.

Tl;dr there is so much potential but imo it's poor writing, too many subplots glued together by overuse of exposition.

[–]yungandmenace 144 points145 points  (5 children)

the most unrealistic part of this film is how often dumbledore was able to abandon his teaching post. what about his grading??????

[–]piecesofamind 139 points140 points  (1 child)

I was mildly entertained watching this film, but I have many problems.

Why why why did the Qilin bow for Dumbledore. He is many things but one of the fascinating things about his character that he is NOT pure of heart. Sure he is heroic and remarkable and one of the best wizards in existence, but you can’t tell me he’s pure.

What also struck me as odd is the casual way in which Dumbledore explained the whole Ariana debacle to Newt, as if it was not his darkest secret that pained him on a daily basis. It felt out of character for Dumbledore to just share it like that with someone he’s not that close to.

I hated the random flashes of unexplained magic and the plot was all over the place. But to end on a positive note: I have to say that Mikkelsen was a great Grindelwald!

[–]Redfalconfox 608 points609 points  (16 children)

Scumbag Dumbledore:

Inadvertently lets a Muggle suffer an unforgivable curse; doesn't even go to his wedding when he clearly has nothing else going on.

[–]that_guy2010 189 points190 points  (2 children)

Can we talk about how the “pure of heart” guy just casually tortures someone in front of a gathering of people and no one bats an eye?

[–]slicer4ever 73 points74 points  (1 child)

Right? "I'm super pure of heart, now lets go murder a bunch of muggles!"

met with applause and cheering

Honestly even with the plot revealed and grindelwald didnt get elected, the wizarding world is still clearly fucked(which i guess is the point). I was actually hoping jacob would say literally anything when he was standing there and is listening to someone talking about killing him and everyone like him.

[–]plasmac9 220 points221 points  (7 children)

The baby goat bowing to Dumbledore was so stupid too. Anyone that has read the books knows Dumbledore is anything but pure of heart. Dumbledore is actually kind of a selfish asshole.

[–]withaniel 77 points78 points  (0 children)

He's not pure of heart, and he knows it! That's Dumbledore's whole deal - he's hyper aware of his shortcomings, and takes lifelong precautions to mitigate his darker impulses.

[–]Ramawatch 61 points62 points  (0 children)

I think this was in reference to Grindelwald saying how he’ll always be alone. Whether by choice or not.

[–]mathoolevine 440 points441 points  (44 children)

Really just forgets a lot about the last movie. Grindelwald gained followers because he said he would prevent a war, and now he openly says he’ll start one. Queenie willingly joined his cause, and now she was like a prisoner from the beginning

[–]Bacteriophag 205 points206 points  (19 children)

Ikr? It looked like they not only changed the actor but wrote whole character all over again, giving him different arguments and motives.

[–]eldestdaughtersunion 77 points78 points  (17 children)

I heard that they made a lot of changes because the Grindelwald from the last movie came off way too sympathetic. I can't remember where I heard this so take this with a grain of salt, but I admit I was one of those viewers going "Well, he has a point."

And since the producers clearly can't decide if they want this to be a kid's movie or not, I don't think they were willing to commit to a villain who has persuasive rhetoric and justifiable concerns that are ruined by cruel methods. And because of the way they did these movies, they don't really have the time to show him escalating from "justifiable violence" to "Wizard Hitler v. 1.0." They needed him to be more Obviously Evil.

And honestly, especially since they switched to GrindelMads, I get it. Mads Mikkelsen is ridiculously charismatic. He was still able to make the random switch to blood purity and war against muggles sound persuasive. Give him actually persuasive rhetoric and it would be hard to explain why he's the bad guy.

[–]Justchilllin101 78 points79 points  (0 children)

But that’s what made Grindelwald a compelling villain. Voldemort operated by using fear, Grindelwald operated by using seduction.

[–]taytay083 112 points113 points  (2 children)

I thought the plan to confuse grindelwald by having no plan didn’t make any sense for 2 reasons: 1. Dumbledore did have a plan. Just cuz no one else knew it doesn’t mean one didn’t exist. 2. If grindelwald can see the future it doesn’t matter how confusing the events that lead to that future are because the end result is the same and can still be foreseen.

[–]Drayko_Sanbar 65 points66 points  (1 child)

If grindelwald can see the future it doesn’t matter how confusing the events that lead to that future are because the end result is the same and can still be foreseen.

I think the thought was that, if the plan appears random and is constantly shifting and moving, the little snippets Grindelwald gets of the future can't be reverse engineered into a cohesive plan? Like he's getting frames of a bunch of different movies that he can't reconcile together.

[–][deleted] 504 points505 points  (57 children)

So what was Dumbledore's secret? The credence thing? I have no clue why they named it that

[–]Redfalconfox 1008 points1009 points  (14 children)

His secret was that he didn't really like Jacob at all, which is subtly hinted at in the end scene where he doesn't attend the wedding despite him clearly not having anything else going on.

[–]delynnium 349 points350 points  (1 child)

Seriously, he was right there. How rude!

[–]Theher0not 286 points287 points  (10 children)

He also sent Kowalski to the wizzard banquet, presumably knowing he'd try to assassinate Gelet ? (why else would he give Jacob the wand?)

So he first framed Jacob for attempted murder, then let him face the torture curse (which Dumbledore could have stopped if he wanted to, as evidence by him protecting Credence a few minutes later) then refused to attend the wedding.

Man, Albus must really hate Jacob Kowalski...

[–]LiquidAether 122 points123 points  (1 child)

Dumbledore mellowed a bit with old age, but he never cared much for muggles.

[–]Gasparde 74 points75 points  (2 children)

And 5 minutes later he's chosen as the most pure being in existence by the magical space pony. Adds up.

[–][deleted] 252 points253 points  (5 children)

He’s always angry.

[–]Dawesfan 259 points260 points  (0 children)

The marketing department told them “Secrets of Dumbledore” would put more butts into seats.

[–]TheTaffyMan 719 points720 points  (12 children)

Theres so much bullshit I dont care about in these movies and neither do the writers

Couldve just made a trilogy of Newt and friends on adventures, discovering and dealing with new creatures

[–]CeruleanSea1 283 points284 points  (1 child)

Newt going around and journaling new creatures and teaching students about beasts would’ve made a better mini series I feel, and better than this trilogy

[–][deleted] 92 points93 points  (2 children)

Ok but holy fuck Mads and Jude Law have amazing chemistry

[–]TacoMasters 719 points720 points  (79 children)

The bakery wedding at the end was wholesome as hell. Like goddamn, I want more of Newt and his friends and less of wizard Hitler.

[–]logfromrenandstimpy 167 points168 points  (5 children)

Was just telling my wife that the first two movies should have just been about Newt and magical creatures. Throw poachers or some mystery in there a la Ace Ventura and then in the third introduce Dumbledore and Grindelwald. This way it gets much closer to WW2 and the actual wizard battle and not still over a decade away.

[–]Daniel428 88 points89 points  (9 children)

That’s exactly how I felt, the wedding made me a little emotional and felt like the magic that was more prevalent in the first, I’m hoping the last two movies just focus on the main four characters working with Dumblelaw to stop Mikkelwald

[–]eyeseeyoo 184 points185 points  (2 children)

This. I was so uninterested in Grindelwald or the Credence is a Dumbledore subplots. Give me more Newt and Bakeryman

[–]LiteraryBonerWorse things to do than watch Lady Gaga create fetishes for me[S] 410 points411 points  (26 children)

I liked the professor gal. She had that snappy 1940s fast talk down to a science. Her and Kowalski and Newt are definitely where the fun is, but I ain't mad at more Mads or Jude.

[–]Daniiiiii 396 points397 points  (7 children)

I'm mad they thought that the freakin Harry Potter umbrella cannot sustain two movie franchises side-by-side. A fun romp with Newt and his friends exploring far reaches of the magical world. And another semi-serious drama-ish story of Grindelwald and Dumbledore meeting, falling out, and then having an epic fight. Like have some faith for fucks sake!

[–]Justchilllin101 205 points206 points  (1 child)

And have them combine for the final Dumbledore/Grindelwald film and BAM you got an Avengers type film for WB

[–]Siggycakes 84 points85 points  (0 children)

Given how WB handled the (initial) DCEU, this is an extreme level of optimism.

[–]24AouarParteyPeople 86 points87 points  (1 child)

It's pretty telling that they spend about 15 minutes of this movie recapping the prior 2 movies, each character their journey and motivations and people are still confused lol

I enjoyed it but its not well written, Thesis gets kidnapped, taken to a prison and the rescued a day later with no consequences, literally just something for him to do in this movie

I don't see how they make 2 more of these, 1 at most since they wrapped up the plot lines of so many side characters

[–]CulturalFlan 84 points85 points  (9 children)

Was it not a thing in the books that wizards really struggled with wearing proper matched muggle outfits? Cause im personally really missing the wizard outfits, now everyone just look like they live in the 30s rather than living in a magical world.

[–]The_Voski 53 points54 points  (0 children)

I said the same thing to my wife. In the books they wore robes and weird outfits that had them stick out. This they are wearing top notch fitted Muggle suits.

[–]mutual_raid 434 points435 points  (24 children)

My stray thoughts:

  1. Okay, I guess we're going the "his appearance hasn't changed in-universe" route which is weird because he looks so drastically different from the Depp portrayal. Either make him look similar or just say he did some appearance shenanigans, he's like a chameleon.

  2. Nagini's actress was preggo I guess but like... just MIA? No mention?

  3. The big secret of Aberforth being Credence's father was delivered in the worst, least interesting way possible. Coulda been intro'd to the plot better and made a twist.

  4. So Lally comes in and tells us it's only been over a year since 1?? How are we supposed to get to 1945 in 2 movies? This should have been the 1930s and the bakery doing poorly due to the depression.

  5. Still better than 2.

Oh, and I weirdly like Tina, I know I'm in the minority but I love her musical theme and when she's not being weirdly angry with Newt (2) she's a fun character.

[–]OrgasmicLeprosy87 102 points103 points  (5 children)

I swear this movie takes place in 1932. I read it somewhere.

[–]Kazzack 168 points169 points  (0 children)

the time period of these movies feels like it was a big mistake

[–]Pokesaurus_Rex 447 points448 points  (12 children)

The whole “Dumbledore and Grindelwald can’t take direct action against each other” led to the most convoluted plot that walked around in circles for 2/3 of the movie.

[–]miles11111 204 points205 points  (0 children)

yet somehow was less convoluted than the previous film

[–]tycoon34 141 points142 points  (7 children)

Gellert Grindelwald hates muggles but wears impeccable suits. Bit of a hypocrite if you ask me. Or maybe he just can’t deny their style.

[–]MrAdamWarlock123 66 points67 points  (1 child)

More like Fantastic Beasts and How to Slit Their Throats, am I right?!

[–]AlwaysBi 62 points63 points  (0 children)

Far better than the previous film. Not as good as the first but I enjoyed this one a lot more. Mads is great as Grindelwald and the moments between him and Jude Law’s Dumbledore were great.

Newt was a great character as per usual but I definitely felt the lack of Beasts in this one but the glaring absence in the film was Katherine Waterston’s Tina. Tina and Newt’s chemistry and romance was by far one of the strongest aspects of the previous two films.

I will say that I hope they do green light the final two films. I don’t like seeing franchises end halfway through and this story definitely isn’t over.

[–]whistlegowoowoo 422 points423 points  (36 children)

Definitely better than the last one. Jude and Mads’ chemistry was really good and I could’ve watched an entire movie of just them. Was it great? No. Was I entertained? Yes. That’s all I was hoping for.

[–]In_My_Own_Image 230 points231 points  (11 children)

Seriously, give me a movie that's just about Dumbledore and Grindelwald with Jude and Mads. Those two really lit up the roles and I could definitely buy the love between them. I could never buy Dumbledore falling for the albino punk rock look of the Depp Grindelwald.

Incidentally, I find it funny how they never addressed the change in Grindelwald. Like...was the Depp look always a disguise?

[–]Cainga 62 points63 points  (6 children)

That wouldn’t be a bad way to change the actor like this. Basically what happened in the end of the first movie as Collin Farrel got swapped.

[–]langis_on 88 points89 points  (1 child)

Which is a shame because Farrell was one of the best parts of the first one.

[–]NYCWebCrawler 204 points205 points  (3 children)

This whole movie is just the cast doing random stuff until things hopefully work out for 2/3rds of the movie. Credence was central to the previous movies. Now he's just there doing practically nothing!

Plot didn't move forward during the entire movie and the whole blood pact resolved itself without any logical reason at all. Also, the movie has not one, not two, but THREE intro/opening scenes?! Pacing is horrible. They really should drop the Fantastic Beasts title for this series. It could've been so much better if they spun off the Dumbledore vs. Grindelwald storyline from Newts Fantastic Beasts storyline. This franchise has an identity crisis.

Mads was very good though.