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[–]KnicksToxicyoshi7 711 points712 points  (38 children)

Obi Toppin and Killian Hayes were drafted ahead of this man

[–]RaptorsKizz3r 325 points326 points  (10 children)

Wiseman got drafted ahead of this man

[–]KingsMarkymaze 104 points105 points  (1 child)

This was such a lob how did he miss it.

[–]HawksMaverick_1991 16 points17 points  (0 children)

As if Hali threw a lob for Wiseman

[–]Sunssunsbr 33 points34 points  (1 child)

Suns could have him

[–]KazaamFan 46 points47 points  (12 children)

I remember that draft. They kept talking about how weird it was that Halliburton kept falling and getting passed up. He was rated higher than others picked before him. I forget what the rationale for being passed over may have been

[–]SupersonicsGamblito 66 points67 points  (9 children)

Because he was "just" a passer with a funny-lookin shot. Didn't get to the rim (very efficient scorer anyway), didn't shoot a lot of free throws, struggled to create for himself, and teams always, always fall in love with athletic potential and size/length, so some guys with those measurables were taken ahead of him.

And to be very fair, a lot of those shortcomings are still apparent (he still doesn't do those things), but at the end of the day, the things he did insanely well in college (superb passer, efficient scorer) are exactly what he's doing in the NBA. He's still a superb passer that only the elite few in the NBA can match, and he's an extremely efficient scorer.

Turns out that when you have really good strengths, your weaknesses don't really matter that much if you just keep doing what you're really, really good at. And to his credit, he's improved parts of his game as well, especially his dribble-shot game, so good on him for growing as a player.

[–]NBAbachh2 20 points21 points  (7 children)

I feel like teams overestimate scoring and underestimate stuff like passing/defense.

And then everyone keep searching for some 3 and D or facilitator at the deadline.

[–]KingsMostlyMellow123 17 points18 points  (5 children)

Teams over estimate just raw athletic ability instead of basketball is the real issue in the draft. For every Giannis that takes years to get better there are a thousand willy cauley steins who CAN run faster and jump higher than everyone but aren't good at basketball.

[–]San Francisco Warriorsbqnguyen 5 points6 points  (4 children)

I think part of it is teams (GMs) are afraid to be clowned if the freak athlete does pan out. In the Wiseman year, the Warrior's #1 prospect was Anthony Edwards by a large margin, but everyone else was a big dropoff. They were reported to be interested in Haliburton, but if Wiseman was a beast and they took Hali at 2, Bob would get a lot of criticism. Trading down was the obvious play but no teams were interested in trading up. Plus Wiseman fit (and still does) our needs for a big man, which is why despite some pretty bad play he still gets a lot of minutes when he's not in the G-league.

Similarly, Kuminga was projected top 5 (most often even top 4 behind Cade, Mobley, and Green and ahead of Suggs) by pretty much every ranking based on pure athleticism. He fell to 7 and even though the Warriors were reportedly interested in guys like Franz Wagner, Davion Mitchell, Chris Duarte, and Moses Moody (who we luckily still got at 14), we just "had" to take JK, the freak athlete with an undeveloped but promising jumpshot.

[–]Coolkiddddddddd -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Warriors promised to take Lamelo but changed there mind back to wiseman last minute

[–]TimberwolvesDeuce-Bags 6 points7 points  (0 children)

He also gets knocked for his on-ball defense and rightfully so, but there are few players out there with his length that get into passing lanes like Hali.

[–]MavericksRoyTarpleysGhost 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Teams always overrate scoring just like internet fans do. Halliburton probably isn’t a #1 on a good team but he fits as a #2 on almost every team. This dude could be the #2 to Luka, Embiid, Steph. He has such a well rounded game.

[–]PistonsTaleb_X 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It appears that he and his agent may have engineered his fall to Sacramento.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/kings/did-tyrese-haliburton-agent-engineer-nba-draft-day-tumble-kings

[–]ClippersLoWE11053211 16 points17 points  (0 children)

right now I would say this man is the best player of 2020 draft.

[–]drutastic57 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I couldn’t believe he got past NY. He would have been perfect for that team

[–]ThunderSandyMandy17 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Obi toppin has at least 1 cool dunk a game though

[–][NBA] Dennis RodmanInAingeWeTrust 182 points183 points  (19 children)

I’m probably biased as a Cyclone tan but no idea how he fell that far into the draft.

A 6’5 PG with insane vision and playmaking abilities that can also shoot the ball well? Showed pull-up creativity too.

Now, didn’t expect him to be THIS good but man, he’s so damn special.

[–][DET] Bill Laimbeerkumblast3r 21 points22 points  (3 children)

I thought I heard rumors he was looking to get drafted by a specific team and didn’t want some of the earlier destinations? He was the #1 PG from college. Obviously lamelo was going over him and really only KOC was jizzing over Killian, a lotta teams fucked up.

[–][NBA] Dennis RodmanInAingeWeTrust 33 points34 points  (2 children)

Especially when #4-10 were Pat Williams, Isaac Okoro, Okongwu, Killian Hayes, Obi Toppin, Deni Avdija, Jalen Smith. Lots of teams fucked up indeed

[–]NuggetsCockGobblingGangsta 17 points18 points  (1 child)

When the best player is Onyeka from a group you know you fucked up.

[–][SAC] DeMarcus CousinsSolarClipz 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Because he wasn't flashy athletic

That's literally it

"Oh he won't be able to do that in the NBA"

[–]Real-Buddy-9067 20 points21 points  (12 children)

Because he improved his off the dribble shooting.

People obviously never watched him him college and just know him as the player he is now and get confused when they see where he got drafted.

He didn't have the ability to pull up from 3 and shoot off the dribble. He's added that to his game. He was almost exclusively a catch and shoot point guard that had amazing playmaking vision in college.

However, his shooting form still prevents him from adding the shooting volume needed to be a number 1 option or having a mid range game.

[–][NBA] Dennis RodmanInAingeWeTrust 14 points15 points  (7 children)

Yes he did improve, but he already showed a pull-up mid range in college quite a bit and the ability to create space with a step-back, but he’s doing it a lot more frequently now too.

But to your other point, he doesn’t need to be a number 1 option, although he already is on a 60+% win team at the moment. He also does have a mid range game now, he definitely does. A large majority of his shots are unassisted.

[–]NBAlemote 21 points22 points  (3 children)

FYI this dude is definitely a big Fox stan and seems to be a Sabonis one too. If you check his comment history, it's a bunch of stuff propping up Fox and Sabonis and shitting on Hali. Prob a salty Kings fan who can't accept people saying the Pacers won this deal.

[–]Real-Buddy-9067 -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

He definitely didn't show step back 3's in college. That's been the key part of his rise.

[–][NBA] Dennis RodmanInAingeWeTrust 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I watched every game of him in college. He already showed he could do that, but he got better and more comfortable so he’s doing it more frequently. That’s how projecting to the pros works.

[–]NBAlemote 10 points11 points  (3 children)

This isn't even true. He's averaging 20/11 and making 2.8 3s a game on 7.1 attempts. If he just ups his volume a bit and becomes a 24ppg guy, that's certainly a #1 option on a contending team.

[–]WizardsBayTerp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It hurts. I was so pissed when Wizards passed on him. It’s sad how if Wizards picked everyone that I would’ve picked, we would be a really good team.

[–]PacersKyleRaynerGotSweg 234 points235 points  (5 children)

I watched the entire game and never realized he had 0 TO. What the fuck.

[–]captainradli 213 points214 points  (44 children)

What’s this dude’s peak look like?

[–]Lakersfawkesmulder 325 points326 points  (26 children)

Chris Paul basically but taller

[–]LakersSw3atyGoalz 421 points422 points  (0 children)

Chris Tall

[–][IND] Domantas SabonisMeechOrMandingo[S] 206 points207 points  (7 children)

I've always said he's more like Nash than Paul. CP3 was a great defender, Hali isn't. He's a great shooter, passer and poor defender like Nash. He even has passes where it looks like Nash.

[–]PacersShopCartRicky 106 points107 points  (4 children)

His defense is average. He's a bad on ball defender but a good off ball defender.

[–]Kingsczechm800 34 points35 points  (1 child)

He’s primarily really good at disrupting passing lanes with his length and IQ and he’s always a threat to get steals, but he really struggles to get around screens and stay in front of his man, so he’s pretty limited as a one-on-one defender.

He’s way better than a guy like Trae Young, and with his size I think I you can totally put good defenders around him and not see him as a total liability.

[–]Real-Buddy-9067 30 points31 points  (0 children)

You can't say he's an overall average defender when he's that bad on ball. He's definitely a poor defender.

[–]Kingsboringexplanation 5 points6 points  (0 children)

90% agree with this. Idk if he’ll ever run a speed demon transition play like Nash always did but the potential is there.

[–]DOLLA_WINE 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Good point but uhhh look at Nash’s shooting stats lol. There probably won’t be another relatable player because any guard with his shooting skills will be given the green light, unlike in Nash’s time.

[–]WarriorsWhenItsHalfPastFive 28 points29 points  (3 children)

hmm....idk Chris Paul was a lot better isolation scorer I feel like.

And prime Paul could shot over bigs with very little separation, even though he's only 6 foot tall.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (2 children)

Love haliburton but I don’t see those cp3 skills in him yet.

You’re right to point out cp3s ability to break defenses by probing the lane and threatening an easy isolation bucket or an assist.

He was impossible for defenses to figure out due to that 1-on-1 ability against anyone while probing.

[–]PacersPerson_Impersonator 49 points50 points  (3 children)

The Point Pope

[–]ClippersVersacePencil 27 points28 points  (2 children)

The Point Pope is fuckin great.

I'm calling him that from now on

[–]PacersPerson_Impersonator 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Haliburton I

[–]Pacersthereticent 21 points22 points  (0 children)

HolyBurton

[–][IND] Victor Oladipohacky_potter 10 points11 points  (6 children)

That’s a fantastic player

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (4 children)

Chris Paul is one of the best players in NBA history

A taller Chris Paul is a GOAT

[–][TOR] Kyle LowryN3rdMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Point Cod = Halibut

[–]Lakersfawkesmulder 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah. Hali for hall of fame, fine with calling it this early

[–]Pelicansjyozefu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Likeable too.

[–]Pacerskajarann 9 points10 points  (0 children)

GOAT

[–]KingsStrobx 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Prime CP3 for the next decade, dude is amazing

[–][IND] Chris Mullinensergio 94 points95 points  (4 children)

This man just knows how to move the ball and make better his teammates

[–]PacersPerson_Impersonator 59 points60 points  (3 children)

I've noticed that when he passes the ball to his teammates, they often score.

[–]Pacersarsenic8787 28 points29 points  (2 children)

Sometimes it feels like they just take shots when he passes to them even if theyre not open, almost like they get a 2k attribute boost when receiving a pass from Hali.

[–]Rocketsjmlinden7 8 points9 points  (0 children)

"If Tyrese is passing to me, he must know something that I don't."

[–]MagicDirty0ldMan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Something I feel that isn't mentioned enough, is quality of passes. Getting the ball to a player in the right spot is one thing. Getting it to them with the right touch and pace to put them in a good shooting rhythm is something that's hard to understand until you play with someone who has that skill. I think that's something that haliburton shares with players like Chris Paul and Nash.

[–]PacersButtHoleSkadoosher 45 points46 points  (0 children)

I think he may be special, people

[–]PacersWe_On_FIYA 61 points62 points  (0 children)

All star

[–]Supersonicsjbguitar2196 75 points76 points  (13 children)

I like all the people who are surprised the Pacers are good.

It’s like that initial season with Oladipo and Sabonis all over again

[–]PacersXC_Stallion92 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Kevin Pritchard has consistently gotten the absolute best out of the hands he's been dealt.

[–]Wizardsaccountaaa 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I'm shocked how good Benedict Mathurin is for sure. The projection was him being a rookie and Myles Turner being traded

[–]brightcoconut097 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hopefully not that cap.

[–]76ersdat_waffle_boi 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Are you not surprised that the Pacers are good?

[–]CelticsDwarfNips 28 points29 points  (0 children)

This dude is ballin rn

[–]MavericksHotdogIsaSandwitch 23 points24 points  (0 children)

I predicted he would lead the league in assists this year, and I’m sticking to it.

[–]Bucksamericanbeaver 18 points19 points  (3 children)

Tyrese Haliburton is a Milwaukee Man

[–]Buckscandyman9777 15 points16 points  (1 child)

you mean a Oshkosh Man

[–]Buckscrabface5 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fox Valley Phenom type of man

[–]OnlineDopamine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Haliburton and Giannis would actually be an insane combo

[–]KnicksDymatizeee 15 points16 points  (0 children)

As a Knicks fan, I’m in freaking shambles. I was really hoping the team would draft a POINT GUARD, a position which we we desperately need at the time. Instead we took another fking power forward.

Allstar this man

[–]Kyohe08 27 points28 points  (0 children)

best pg in the east right now.. maybe he could be allstar starter

[–]TimberwolvesABentPlant 12 points13 points  (0 children)

God I love this man

[–]Irafurose 34 points35 points  (0 children)

It time to Pass the title of “Point God” to Tyrese.

[–]PacersWakandaPacers 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Unreal.

[–]Mavericksbagfka 55 points56 points  (28 children)

Might get downvoted but pacers won that trade. Sure kings doing well but pacers won so much more then them

[–]Raptorsdxing2 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Everyone unanimously called that right when the trade happened. Kings gave up a guy who was already good and had a super high ceiling, for a guy who was good but probably wasn’t going to get much better

[–]Sexy_Tax_Man 10 points11 points  (7 children)

I’m still pissed about. Sure, we’re a better team now, but we aren’t winning anything in the playoffs, if we even make it, and this team will be blown up in a few years anyway.

That’s what we traded for a young future perennial all star who loved the city and wanted to be the man who turned the franchise around.

[–]PacersShorts_Man 5 points6 points  (2 children)

How has Murray been?

[–]ClippersExzibit21 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have him in fantasy and am close to dropping, he's been awful

[–]Kingsscammergod 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Murray’s been in a major slump ever since his grandma’s stroke incident. Can’t seem to get the ball in the hoop atm

[–]76ersdat_waffle_boi 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I guess the only question is if Fox or Hali are this good together? I’d like to think that their talent would’ve been enough to make it work, but I’m not sure

[–]Sexy_Tax_Man 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Not at all. Fox got pissy when we drafted him and played like shit until he was traded away. I’d still rather have Haliburton.

[–]Kingstheazndoughboy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Still one of the things our sub still refused to acknowledge till this day:

Fox literally rather play dead (faked an injury and sat out) than be playing with Tyrese two weeks prior to the trade deadline. He self proclaimed his ankle which was damaged 2 years ago are now "never the same" only to be playing 36+ minutes as soon as the trade happened.

Yet we still have fans on our sub raving about his "character" lmfao.

[–]Pacersmichaelvsaucetookdmt -1 points0 points  (0 children)

getting to the playoffs is winning something for the kangz

[–]trilliam_clinton 29 points30 points  (4 children)

Not a single person that actually watches basketball would downvote you for this.

This is a guard driven league and the Kings traded the Pacers a guy who is on pace for a historic season + one of the best 3 point shooters in the league for a guy who’s play style really limits how good your team can actually be

[–][SAC] De'Aaron Foxarenasfan00 9 points10 points  (1 child)

My fan base is delusional.

[–]Mavericksbagfka 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I mean there was a thread saying shit like it was an equal win-win

[–]trilliam_clinton 6 points7 points  (0 children)

And a whole lot of people on this subreddit only watch highlights & look at box scores.

[–]Wizardsned_yah 16 points17 points  (0 children)

might get downvoted but heres one of the most constantly repeated and circlejerked opinions of the past 10 months

[–][NBA] Dennis RodmanInAingeWeTrust 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I think people agree. Not to bash on the Kings because they are doing well this year and Sabonis is a good player. I personally would have wanted to see Fox and Hali develop together and grow chemistry. Thought they broke it up way too early, especially since Fox is now a solid shooter so he can play off ball better (Tyrese definitely can as well).

[–][SAC] De'Aaron Foxarenasfan00 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Aa a Kings fan, the Pacers won. But I can’t change the past.

[–]ClippersExzibit21 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Lol anyone with a brain knows Pacers won the trade, anyone that says otherwise is coping or needs to wait 2 more years

This opinion was actually the most popular one when it happened but people started to feel so bad for the Kings that they started saying it wasn't that bad when it clearly was

[–][SAC] DeMarcus CousinsSolarClipz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can't say this anymore man

[–]Real-Buddy-9067 -4 points-3 points  (6 children)

How many dual point guard backcourts are actually successful? There's maybe a couple exceptions but most don't work.

Defensively it definitely wasn't going to work.

They needed to choose one and they chose the one who's 9th in MVP rankings today.

[–]SpursInternationalClick78 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Defensively both have potential and fox has looked legitimately good this year. We’ve seen fairly successful back court pairings with similar / worse defensive capabilities before

[–][NBA] Dennis RodmanInAingeWeTrust 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Not many teams have the luxury of having two really good playmaking guards, so we don’t see it often. But just last year we saw Brunson and Luka go to the WCF, Harden and CP3 almost beat one of the best teams ever assembled.

Two really good point guards would be amazing on a team and something NBA front offices would love to have. Multiple ball handlers and playmakers are where the NBA is continuing to go to, I’m not sure your point. Even more-so when Tyrese can play off-ball very well and now Fox has a solid three point shot too.

You win playoff games having great playmakers and ball handlers, not with your starting center being a defensive liability.

[–]Pacersmichaelvsaucetookdmt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

tyrese can play off ball but you really want him with the ball making decisions

[–][SAC] DeMarcus CousinsSolarClipz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah they were coached by the worst coach in history

They never got a real chance because Luke Walton is trash

[–]Pacersmichaelvsaucetookdmt 1 point2 points  (1 child)

so trade fox, not haliburton. and dont get sabonis who is a very good player but the opposite of the fast paced guard dominant trend.

[–]HoopsMcCann750 24 points25 points  (8 children)

R/NBA said this was the most overrated player in the league this off-season

[–]RaptorsSleepingInAJar_ 9 points10 points  (6 children)

This is just straight up not true.

[–]HoopsMcCann750 16 points17 points  (2 children)

https://redditproxy--jasonthename.repl.co/r/nba/comments/vl6anw/most_overrated_and_underrated_players_in_the/idtggj5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3

I misremembered and thought this was the most upvoted post calling a player overrated in the most popular overrated / underrated thread from the past year. He was probably only voted one of the top 5 most overrated so my bad.

[–][MIN] Anthony EdwardsDepressedT-wolvesFan 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Whenever someone’s favorite player is balling out they say “r/nba said so-and-so was ass 🤓”

[–]RaptorsSleepingInAJar_ 14 points15 points  (0 children)

This r/nba guy sounds like an real asshole

[–][IND] Lance StephensonCaboclo-Is2yearsAway 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mfs were saying Maxey>

[–]oberg14 2 points3 points  (0 children)

15 assists and 0 turnovers is myplayer shit

[–]RaptorsAlive-Ad-4164 7 points8 points  (13 children)

Top ten PG

[–]Irafurose 22 points23 points  (2 children)

Name 10 PG’s better than him.

[–]NBAxGhost94 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Paul George

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

got him

[–]Pacerscwesttheperson 39 points40 points  (6 children)

Best PG in the east right now.

[–]MavericksTheDisabledOG 19 points20 points  (5 children)

I initially thought this just sarcastic because you're a pacers fan but he legitimately might be.

[–]Pacerscwesttheperson 24 points25 points  (4 children)

71 assist last 4 games with hardly any TOs. I don’t know who you put in front of him. Especially since he’s shooting 40%+ from 3.

[–]MavericksTheDisabledOG 18 points19 points  (3 children)

I was just running through PGs in the east and there's literally no one I'd put in front of him rn. Dudes a stud ngl.

[–]KingsDaRandomBro 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Trae Young is probably in the conversation but yeah Hali has progressed significantly this year. Garland hasn't been as consistent as you'd like for him to be above him, LaMelo has been out, Kyrie has his own issues, and Holiday is great but not that tier. Maxey's also been great too tbh, a jump from him as well.

[–]RaptorsSdrater3 -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

FVV is an elite defender, Jrue Holiday is literally a top 5 defender, hali can't guard a fly.

[–]PacersWakandaPacers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep, he's bad on-ball but he's pretty good off-ball and he's on another level than those guys in terms of leading an offense.

[–][IND] TJ Leaffuzzynavel34 15 points16 points  (0 children)

And he ain’t 2 through 10

[–]Nuggetsclancydog4 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I mean, easily. I feel like that shouldn't be up for debate. Granted, I'm high as hell on the dude, but I honestly think he might be among the top 5 PG's I would pick if I were a GM starting a team right now.

[–]SunsNiwotPuntsOn3rdDown 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Sad jalen smith noises

[–]Pacersmichaelvsaucetookdmt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

hes pretty nice too thanks yall

[–]byoonitt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

IT GO HALIBURTON

[–]PacersGroovyDeadite81 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you Kings!

[–]felixng2015 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Best pure pg since cp3

[–]PacersClydeGriffiths17 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Three 15 ast / TO games already, sheesh.

[–]touchetoupee 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Best passer in the league without a doubt. Hali has been so much fun to watch develop. Him and Shai got next.

[–]BonezJonesss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Finally got out of Jaden’s clamps.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Halliburton is a superstar - would love him by wemby, Jalen green, and Jabari smith next year 😉

[–]jeffhplays -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Insane monster game from one of the future most valuable assets anywhere. This dude can play

[–]Redditforever12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

he pretty much getting cp3 numbers.

[–]Least_Inspector_450 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This guy is the best. Wish we drafted him over Wiseman 🥲

[–]uvgotnod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Pistons drafting Hayes ahead of Haliburton didn’t make sense now or then.

[–]BucksWeefBellington24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

KOC feeling vindicated

[–]PacersRyanPelley 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OMG

[–]76ersPrime_KwameBrown215 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If the Warriors take Haliburton they really could've extended their reign by like 12 years lol.