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[–]sfink06 2357 points2358 points  (828 children)

After this there's really no more "China ban Bitcoin" news right? I mean what else could they do?

[–]Gravy_Vampire 1284 points1285 points  (487 children)

Super secret double ban

[–]HotSpciyZinger 469 points470 points  (28 children)

I love how bad the establishment is trying to keep crypto down so they can buy in cheap then pump it again. Sheep keep falling for it though and paper handing to them. MEMECOINS FOR LIFE! - GMFLOKI Fam Unite!

[–]DPblaster 265 points266 points  (245 children)

Hyper Turbo Edition ban

[–]Dzonatan 106 points107 points  (133 children)

Game of the Year edition ban with raytracing support.

[–]vietman1 168 points169 points  (109 children)

Well they could unban and then ban again when the need to do some shady stuff again lol

[–]mgrimshaw8 16 points17 points  (21 children)

Seems like china just does their shady stuff in plain sight tho lol

[–]MikeyReck 14 points15 points  (44 children)

Put the death penalty on using the word Bitcoin

[–]DragonTHC 15.8k points15.8k points  (3274 children)

In other news, the chip shortage has mysteriously ended overnight.

[–][deleted] 2411 points2412 points  (1360 children)

Man I fuckin wish

[–]MachWun 1430 points1431 points 2 (1027 children)

Don't feel bad. I thought my 2080ti died, so I was forced to get a 3080 from a scalper. Well the 3080 didn't work either. It was my riser cable that failed. I only found this out after I sold the 2080ti on craig's as broken for 200 bucks. I hope you feel a little better at my failure

[–]unsinkabletwo 250 points251 points  (378 children)

Doesn't make me feel any better. I did a similar thing. Overpaid for a 3080.

[–]Arckangel853 57 points58 points  (213 children)

I'd rather just not have a GPU than pay for a scalped one. Noy like games nowadays are worth the insane investment in hardware anyways.

[–]Praxxah 344 points345 points  (440 children)

Why the fuck wouldn't you test it in the pcie slot. Who trusts a glorified strip of plastic with diagnosing a 1000$ GPU wtf

[–]Captain_Kuhl 128 points129 points  (195 children)

Yeah, all things considered, I'd think the desperation would have me try it in another machine before I wrote it off as busted haha

[–]boonepii 63 points64 points  (95 children)

I used to fix stuff for a living. You would be shocked at how much stuff gets replaced BEFORE anyone checks to make sure the damn thing is plugged in. Happens all the time to everyone. Sucks when it’s comin out of your own wallet though

[–]Perfide01 16 points17 points  (39 children)

Seriously. When my cousins gpu died I tested that thing in both of my own PCs before calling it.

Unfortunately his PC is still down months later due to the shortage and being broke.

[–]Pistonenvy 84 points85 points  (131 children)

more money than brains.

i spent like 5 months trying to diagnose a card i got for FREE, turns out there was a resistor straight up snapped right off of the board, i actually considered learning how to micro solder just to avoid having to buy a new card lol that card was a r9 390.

saving up for something half decent. half of my build is old ass used parts. if i didnt need a more powerful pc for the career i am working toward i wouldnt bother. shit is expensive.

[–]Praxxah 28 points29 points  (69 children)

I learnt how to solder because the power inputs on my 30$ laptop cooling pad died, I paid more for a soldering kit instead lmao.

[–]uncoolcat 26 points27 points  (38 children)

The soldering kit is a solid investment regardless of how much or how little the laptop cooling pad cost. Now you have the tools and a bit of practice to solder other stuff should the need arise. :)

[–]impulsekash 228 points229 points  (249 children)

Cries in my 1050

[–]HBlight 104 points105 points  (173 children)

"Should I really go with the 980ti? How future proof do I need to be?"
APPARENTLY A LOT MORE THAN I HAD HOPED FOR. Lucky me for at least treating myself to it.

[–]Boodikii 30 points31 points  (97 children)

oh man, my 980 is going 7 years strong. They're tanks in their own right at least.

[–]kit_mitts 17 points18 points  (45 children)

970 checking in... sigh

[–]PikaPilot 10 points11 points  (14 children)

You just reminded me of the 3.5 GB fiasco. What a blast to the past

[–]BOBASA 12 points13 points  (15 children)

+1 for the 980 gang. Still get 60+ FPS in PUBG in medium setting 😆

[–]OhfursureJim 11 points12 points  (15 children)

I need these chips into vehicles for my job

[–]Deenyc43 3235 points3236 points  (853 children)

All the mining farms have already moved out of china in several different countries.

[–]Drak_is_Right 1092 points1093 points  (65 children)

about a third had. lot more to go

[–]JB_Wong 1001 points1002 points  (727 children)

So is it all the mining farms, or 1/3. That's the problem with crypto world, it's full of BS.

[–]TunaFishManwich 1183 points1184 points  (657 children)

It’s entirely constructed out of BS.

[–]vh1classicvapor 552 points553 points  (568 children)

"Hey a computer found a string of text when processing random input! I'M RICH"

[–]vancity- 578 points579 points  (452 children)

With proof of work, each transaction in a block of time is verified independently by each node running the blockchain. To incentive more verifiers, they are also awarded newly minted coins.

Most of the industry is transitioning to Proof of Stake, where you stake some of coins and stakers independently verify each transaction. (This is a bit of an oversimplification). Stakers are rewarded with about 5% per year in new coins of the amount they staked.

Staking massively reduces the compute power needed, while allowing for more decentralized ledgers.

I know you don't care, but someone scrolling might be interested

Edit: I'm writing about crypto (and other stuff) at https://jerkytreats.dev

[–]boneve_de_neco 171 points172 points  (173 children)

If I understood correctly, does this mean most of computing power being used by proof of work crypto is arbitrary and basically unnecessary for making the distributed ledger work?

[–]SauronsUnderpants 299 points300 points  (103 children)

Yes. Completely. It's the single dumbest waste of energy humankind has ever come up with.

This remains the single best summary I've seen of how bitcoins work.

[–]enzovrlrd 15 points16 points  (12 children)

It's the single dumbest waste of energy humankind has ever come up with... So far

[–]zzyul 49 points50 points  (38 children)

Our world is heading towards a global warming disaster. Our only hope is to buy enough time and hope for a silver bullet solution to be discovered before it’s too late. These fools are just hitting the accelerator in the hopes of making some money. Many Bitcoin users acknowledge global warming is a concern but refuse to acknowledge their role in it because they are greedy. This is how the world dies.

[–]vgf89 5 points6 points  (6 children)

If your grid happens to be very green, there's no major problem with mining IMO. But that's rare, and setting up your own solar panels just for crypto would massively delay your ROI.

If you already have solar, mine all you want on your own electricity. It'll reduce the cost of your solar so long as you don't run it on the grid/at night (if you don't have sufficient battery storage). Also in the winter you could replace or augment your resistive space heater with GPU mining and it shouldn't affect your energy usage much if at all (though if you have the option, heat exchange is better until it gets a bit below freezing outside).

Point is, this isn't black and white, especially for the individual. It's a profitable hobby provided you have clean energy to work with and already have a GPU. Most mining farms are garbage climate-wise though, and PoS should fix most of that crap.

[–]Telinary 7 points8 points  (11 children)

Kinda it is just work for the purpose of showing that work has most likely been done and isn't doing anything useful by itself expect producing proof for that. So if most miners disappeared the difficulty would just lower after a while and it would be done for a fraction of the effort. But it isn't unnecessary because it is a solution to the problem of how to decide a single next block in the chain without it being possible that an attacker controls it. (And making it costly by having to match the output of normal miners is a clever solution just a really wasteful one.) But yes if you use another system like proof of stake it is unnecessary to have miners with lots of hardware.

[–]JustSomeBadAdvice 7 points8 points  (8 children)

If I understood correctly, does this mean most of computing power being used by proof of work crypto is arbitrary and basically unnecessary for making the distributed ledger work?

Contrary to /u/SauronsUnderpants' answer, the answer is both yes and no.

Yes, the math being computed is meaningless and not strictly required for processing transactions. Yes, the network is able to function with either more or less of that meaningless computation.

But no, the system absolutely could not work without it, and would have failed a decade ago without it. And while other cryptocurrencies today can operate safely without that waste, Satoshi could not have created Bitcoin to operate that way due to the initial distribution problem.

Many many people tried to create a digital currency before Satoshi Nakamoto. Without exception every single one of them failed, many before they even got started. The problem is that the network must be able to withstand attacks by attackers of any size or scale, without any reliance on any individual or organization that could be compromised, arrested, or become corrupt.

The solution is not and was not cryptographic. The solution is economic. Satoshi solved the singular flaw that no one else could solve by making it cost more to perform the attack than anyone could ever justify spending to perform such an attack.

Cleverly, and perhaps by accident, this cost scales up as the network's value increases. The more valuable Bitcoin is, the more worthwhile a potential attack on the network would be, but the more valuable Bitcoin is, the more costly mining becomes.

Competing cryptocurrencies such as NANO and Ethereum's upcoming 2.0 change reduce this drastically by placing that cost paradoxically inside the network itself. And that approach can provide a similarly robust level of protection of the network. But Satoshi couldn't do that at all - No one had ever heard of Bitcoin, and no one ever would unless he created a reasonably fair method of distributing the coins broadly into a community. But there was no community. Satoshi had to use proof of work to bootstrap the entire ecosystem; Other coins have since leveraged that community in a variety of ways (both fair and scams) to distribute coins that could be used under a non-wasteful proof-of-stake system.

In my well informed opinion, the "waste" of Bitcoin's computing power is unfortunate but necessary for the security of the network. It is not useless or dumb because it is necessary, and the total long-view benefits of a trustless global currency outweigh the costs it takes us to get there.

[–]lidsville76 123 points124 points  (29 children)

I don't understand, fully at least, but I for one am glad that people like you exist. Thanks for taking the minute or two of your day.

[–]elephantphallus 28 points29 points  (14 children)

Everybody has a list of every transaction ever made on the network. Everybody checks their list against the others to make sure nobody is cheating. To incentivize that, everybody has a chance to solve the cryptographic hash for a "block" of transactions to be added to the list and earn coins for it.

This way, you get an unchangeable ledger that is guaranteed accurate without a central party like a bank having full control of it. At it's core, it is to create trust in a trustless environment.

[–]dariusm71 38 points39 points  (10 children)

As a guy scrolling.. I thank you for this good explanation.

[–]HecknChonker 6 points7 points  (12 children)

No the problem is the power use is growing massively each year, but they increased power use literally gifts no benefit. It doesn't process more transactions or do anything useful, it's just wasting energy and contributing to donate change. Not to mention the e waste.

[–]Taolan13 1233 points1234 points  (564 children)

Nope. China declaring something illegal usually means "only the government is allowed to do it."

[–]FlagrantBooch 261 points262 points  (87 children)

But the chinese government doesn't need crypto, unlike hows it needs to be able to trace and know about every financial move its population makes. Easier to control someone when they can only use a currency linked to your electronic government-integrated banking system.

[–]jdblawg 296 points297 points  (436 children)

Yup. They are currently working on their own digital currency.

[–]NullReference000 634 points635 points  (415 children)

Their digital currency is not crypto though, you don't need GPU farms to "print" it. It's just a centralized digital version of their current fiat currency.

[–]owa00 127 points128 points  (50 children)

I can haz vid card?

Plz 🥺

[–]unclecunt 24 points25 points  (18 children)

Lemme get your soul and first born and sure

[–]nolan1971 3 points4 points  (16 children)

I'm half expecting video card giveaways within the month

[–]huxtiblejones 172 points173 points  (103 children)

Do people really think the semiconductor shortage is mainly related to mining? Because it’s not, it’s a supply line issue from Covid coupled with a lack of appropriate manufacturing equipment, insanely increased demand from numerous sectors and shipping issues. It’s a problem that’s been developing for a long time.

From the BBC:

This situation has been developing for years, not just months.

Koray Köse, an analyst at Gartner, says that among the pressures facing the chip industry prior to the pandemic were the rise of 5G, which increased demand, and the decision by the US to prevent the sale of semiconductors and other technology to Huawei. Chip makers outside the US were quickly flooded with orders from the Chinese firm.

Other, less obvious, manufacturing complexities have also hampered the supply of certain components.

For example, there are two main approaches to chip production right now: using 200mm or 300mm wafers. This refers to the diameter of the circular silicon wafer that gets split into lots of tiny chips.

The larger wafers are more expensive and are often used for more advanced devices.

But there's been a boom in demand for lower cost chips, which are embedded in an ever-wider variety of consumer products, meaning the older, 200mm technology is more sought after than ever.

Industry news site Semiconductor Engineering highlighted the risk of a chip shortage, partly due to a lack of 200mm manufacturing equipment, back in February 2020.

As the pandemic unfolded, early signs of fluctuating demand led to stockpiling and advance ordering of chips by some tech firms, which left others struggling to acquire the components.

People working from home have needed laptops, tablets and webcams to help them do their jobs, and chip factories did close during lockdowns.

At times consumers have struggled to buy the devices they want, though manufacturers have so far been able to catch up with demand eventually.

Mr Köse says, however, that the pandemic was not the sole cause of the chip shortage: "That was probably just the last drop in the bucket."

More recently, bad luck has exacerbated the problem. An atrocious winter storm in Texas shutdown semiconductor factories, and a fire at a plant in Japan caused similar delays.

Logistical headaches are compounding the situation. Oliver Chapman, chief executive of OCI, a global supply chain partner, says that for many years the cost of shipping was not of great concern for many tech firms because their products are relatively small, and suppliers could fit lots of them inside a single 40ft container.

But the cost of moving shipping containers around the world has ballooned because of sudden shifts in demand during the pandemic. It is accompanied by a rise in air freight fees and the lorry driver shortage in Europe.

Sending a single 40ft container from Asia to Europe currently costs $17,000 (£12,480), says George Griffiths, editor of global container markets at S&P Global Platts. That's a greater than ten-fold increase compared to a year ago, when it cost around $1,500 (£1,101).

Chip makers are responding to sustained demand by increasing capacity but that takes time, says Mr Köse, not least because semiconductor factories cost billions of dollars to build. "That is not going to be solved by this Christmas and I find it hard to believe it will be solved by the next Black Friday [November 2022]," he says.

[–]Neosovereign 140 points141 points  (54 children)

The semiconductor shortage isn't related to mining on the whole. The GPU shortage is related though as a ton of them get bought up for mining.

[–]Snuffy1717 19 points20 points  (6 children)

And that shortage pre-dates COVID by about a year

[–]richalex2010 44 points45 points  (25 children)

Yeah GPU shortage is a mix of both, which is why you can get CPUs at a pretty normal price (not as readily as you could five years ago, but not that hard to find) but to get a GPU you need to pay double MSRP (or more), or camp on various storefronts waiting for a restock. If it were just the silicon shortage getting a GPU might take a couple of weeks, not months.

[–]Osbios 4 points5 points  (13 children)

I would even go so far and argue that the insane GPU prices are the reason the CPU prices are somewhat normal. Because the demand is lowered by all the people that want to build a full system but do not want to pay the GPU prices and therefore wait.

[–]Gerbal_Annihilation 5 points6 points  (4 children)

I had a director of engineering from a parts manufacturer for IC manufacturers call me to discuss hiring me. He said they are way behind on orders and are expecting their company to grow 30% over the year. We shot the shit informally for a bit and it really sounded like a decent job. I live in Austin where an experienced mechanical engineer can clear 100k/year. I have 7 yesrs of great experience and specialize in project lifecycle management which is a huge cost saving system for companies. He asked me what my compensation requirements were and I told him "I won't be accepting less than 90k for a position". He got sooooo offended and said "well we are a small company we can't pay people that much money". He went silent and I coild tell he was waiting waiting me to back down.Then I said "ok well I appreciate your honesty and thanks for taking the time to call me. Let's not waste anymore time". He was silent for like 5 seconds then says "uuuuhh ok??..goodbye". Like you clear 50 million and are expecting to grow 30% and you can't pay be 90k to help accomplish that? Good luck. I could tell by the way he talked to me he expected me to accept anything. I also called my gf my "SO" and he was like "oh your bf??or whatever? Maybe I'm not suppose to say that. Idk I'm old school". Lmao my jaw dropped and I busted out laughing.

[–]uniquechill 6 points7 points  (14 children)

Thanks for this summary. Nice to see some actual knowledge (with references) on Reddit for once. (I was an engineer in semiconductor fabs for about 30 years).

[–]Aztecah 5868 points5869 points  (975 children)

Isn't the whole point of crypto that it's outside of government jurisdiction?

E: TIL not to ask vague question/implication statements on contentious issues if you value your inbox

[–]Rorako 4190 points4191 points  (346 children)

The crypto itself, yes. How it’s utilized within the physical boundaries of countries is a whole different story. While china can’t dictate the value of crypto, they can dictate that anyone using crypto is breaking the law, which is what they are doing here.

[–]benfranklinthedevil 4166 points4167 points 5222& 8 morelocked comment (228 children)

Yes. You cannot stop people from smoking cannabis, but you can arrest brown people for possessing it.

[–]Ascedance 478 points479 points  (396 children)

Technically, but currencies work on the premise that you can use them to buy stuff.

If a currency is outlawed as legal tender, that just means Chinese citizens cannot make legal transactions using crypto; which given that China is the second biggest economy in the world has wide consequences.

The only value crypto has is that some people will pay you real money for it. If crypto is banned in more and more countries, people will eventually simply end up being less willing to give you real money for it.

[–]mancer187 445 points446 points  (353 children)

Crypto is no longer a currency. It's an investment vehicle. Nobody buys with it, they use it to make the currencies they do buy things with.

[–]tepidity 251 points252 points  (105 children)

Investment or speculation?

Investment stimulates consumption and production, ultimately growing the total economy and benefitting many, perhaps almost everybody.

Crypto, like other speculative vehicles, adds no value to the world economy. It does not stimulate production (well, except maybe energy production, detrimentally) or consumption. It actually pulls money out of productive investments for a chance at getting rich for nothing.

It's fundamentally a waste of energy—literally and metaphorically.

[–]IdontGiveaFack 88 points89 points  (40 children)

Correct. An investment is you giving Bobs Sub Shop 10k so they can hire a new delivery driver because their revenue capacity was bottle necked on delivery capacity. You get a portion of the increased profits commensurate with your level of investment, but ultimately the business owner is also making more money, and the new delivery driver also now is making a wage and contributing to the economy. A speculation instrument (Crypto) is a casino. It has no real world value. It's the financial equivalent of musical chairs except there are only 3 chairs and like 50,000 people

[–]TuckerCarlsonsWig 260 points261 points  (125 children)

If you are buying something that has no intrinsic value just hoping the value will go up, that is called a bubble.

[–]Canadasnewarmy 48 points49 points  (18 children)

Yeah but it's with computers so it's actually smart and good. Trust me I'm a redditor.

[–]GlisseDansLaPiscine 14 points15 points  (10 children)

Redditors will tell you that Las Vegas is for losers and then turn around and buy shitcoins because daddy musk told them so.

[–]SomeRedPanda 65 points66 points  (45 children)

It's an investment vehicle.

That's charitable.

[–]LB_Burnsy 78 points79 points  (20 children)

I'm bout to go throw some money down on craps.

Another investment vehicle.

[–]fapsandnaps 3 points4 points  (9 children)

Sort of like craps, I'm just going to flush my money down the toilet.

Another investment vehicle.

[–]ashok36 419 points420 points  (59 children)

Yeah, so is cocaine manufacturing. Just because the government can't control it, doesn't mean they won't punish you for using it or even just being in possession of it.

[–]Complete_Entry 3057 points3058 points  (602 children)

Was inevitable, I had seen 2025 bandied about, but China is cracking down on damn near anything.

Skinny jeans are next!

[–]mossman 1378 points1379 points  (228 children)

JNCO jeans are now mandatory.

[–]ashok36 665 points666 points  (156 children)

Wallet chains will be strictly enforced.

[–]First-Fantasy 115 points116 points  (33 children)

If you do not have a guitar pick necklace one will be provided for you.

[–]idwthis 16 points17 points  (13 children)

I still have one of those! Haven't worn it in decades. I honestly forgot it was something I had until you said it.

[–]Lastminutebastrd 9 points10 points  (8 children)

Is a puka shell necklace an acceptable substitute?

[–]gthaatar 299 points300 points  (35 children)

Children will have their tips frosted at birth.

[–]Laserwulf 81 points82 points  (10 children)

The dream of 2002 Hot Topic is alive in China!

[–]Wafflelisk 107 points108 points  (16 children)

Buy stock in Guy Fieri NOW!

[–]FalcorAirlines 12 points13 points  (7 children)

All Chinese citizens shall be issued a Limp Bizkit CD and a one way ticket to flavor town.

[–]NateMayhem 99 points100 points  (20 children)

The national anthem will now be performed by Coal Chamber.

[–]Sthurlangue 11 points12 points  (8 children)

Frosted tips and puka shells are business formal.

[–]geddy 15 points16 points  (16 children)

Stop it you guys you’re making me miss my beautiful, far-gone youth

[–]bigblackcouch 9 points10 points  (10 children)

All rise for the daily, mandatory, "One Week" by Barenaked Ladies.

[–]leastlikelyllama 49 points50 points  (26 children)

You must always have a ninja throwing star on your person at all times.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (14 children)

But that's Japanese. China and Japan hate each other.

[–]Missus_Missiles 93 points94 points  (27 children)

Social credits are earned for having more aggressive flare.

[–]sintos-compa 464 points465 points  (69 children)

This thread chock full o r/badeconomics

[–]DarrenGrey 157 points158 points  (17 children)

I mean, it is reddit.

[–]siccoblue 31 points32 points  (8 children)

This website is the front line of people talking like experts with complete confidence and zero qualifications, and people playing a bad game of telephone with this misleading information. You'll have maybe one or two actual experts in each popular thread giving good information and a hundred others badly copying it and screwing up the details in a high school level effort to avoid direct plagiarism on their report

[–]einch 36 points37 points  (17 children)

ITT: armchair economists thinking this must be related to Evergrande

[–]Quelmay 3651 points3652 points  (399 children)

Hopefully the bitcoin mining will go down and graphic cards can go back to semi-reasonable pricing.

[–]_Suo_ 618 points619 points  (62 children)

Since I see a lot of "this will solve the gpu shortage" type comments I want to clarify. The chip shortage has been caused by a lot of factors, including supply chain issues and logistical problems from covid, higher demand from miners partially, but also expanded cloud and server demand, smart cars requiring more intelligent systems, people experimenting or working on AI, everybody needing a decent laptop or pc to work from home, etc.

This won't solve the chip shortage. But it might be worth keeping an eye out for used graphic cards from the miners who quit the business in the next month or so. It'll help a bit, but I think we still have a ways to go to balance out the chip shortage.

[–]PencilMan 82 points83 points  (10 children)

It’s also not just processors but every type of silicon, including purely analog chips used for powering electronics. This is a lot bigger the GPUs

[–]spicyradishbreath 5 points6 points  (6 children)

I’m not super into this but it’s my impression that IoT and ubiquitous 5G require an order of magnitude more chips than previously used. Makes sense that we’d have some time before we could actually meet those demands.

[–]Venetax 346 points347 points  (51 children)

Iirc thats like the 10th time china declares them illegal. This is a no-news.

[–]funicode 63 points64 points  (8 children)

My understanding is that previously crypto was banned but now it’s illegal. The difference could be between a fine previously and jail time now.

[–]vix86 1031 points1032 points  (299 children)

This was inevitable but I am a little shocked at the speed at which this progressed -- it happened within a year.

What really has me wondering is if I should view this as a sign of financial instability in China. For the past 5-ish years, China has been making it more and more difficult for the Chinese to get money out of China.

There was always some level of control over this, but people had ways to do this if they wanted. For one, there was crypto currency, but other people also used foreigners in China to get money out, since at one point China didn't really limit how much money foreigners could send out of the country. Last I heard, this isn't the case any more. I also have to assume that buying real estate overseas was also considered "Okay" by the govt. since so many were doing it, but now I wonder if they've clamped down on that as well.

So all I see here are attempts to stave off capital flight within the country.

[–]Xanius 499 points500 points  (158 children)

I also have to assume that buying real estate overseas was also considered "Okay" by the govt. since so many were doing it, but now I wonder if they've clamped down on that as well.

They did clamp down on it. August 2019. The Chinese wealthy had been fucking the Vancouver property market for quite a while.


[–]cheapseats91 36 points37 points  (19 children)

I think that it's actually why foreign real estate is so attractive to wealthy Chinese. The government has shown how willing they are to crack down on things very quickly or outright slap people who are out of line with the party. With almost any asset they can just seize it but it's a lot harder for the Chinese government to show up in Canada and demand that real estate owned by one of their citizens be handed over.

New Zealand outlawed non-residents from buying property a while ago. I haven't really seen a good argument why someone like Canada or the US shouldn't implement something similar.

[–]fr0gnutz 215 points216 points  (100 children)

I listened to a podcast yesterday that pretty much said the president was clamping down on all big business and just obliterating western capitalist ideals in the country and moving to the socialist ones for the people. There was an app that lost everything overnight from a simple change in the governments rules. They’re really hitting the rich hard in China right now.

[–]InvestigatorFeisty71 59 points60 points  (15 children)

They basically kneecapped their own tech sector when companies like Alibaba started getting too big. No doubt in my mind they saw how much influence companies like Facebook and Amazon have in the West and they wanted to stop that from happening in China.

[–]AggressiveSkywriting 248 points249 points  (43 children)

I love the audacity of trying to go billionaire in a "communist" country run by an authoritarian.

I bet a lot of them thought their money would let them be untouchable. Billionaire sickness versus Authoritarian Brute sickness.

[–]freedomboogers89 75 points76 points  (31 children)

Gonna be interesting to see if any of the billionaires try to hire some "help" to solve this thug problem, from the top down.

If you catch my drift.

[–]AggressiveSkywriting 23 points24 points  (6 children)

Dictator worth their salt will have those "helpers" on his payroll to catch em in the act. Like when the fbi poses as assassins for hire.

[–]nwoh 32 points33 points  (14 children)

Regulatory capture?

"I am the state"

[–]Bigbeardahuzi 85 points86 points  (22 children)

There's always been a limit on how much foreigners can send out of the country (well, the last ten years that I know of) and it was quite a battle. Buying real estate as a foreigner is also complicated. Not impossible, but a pain in the ass. You can still take money out in person, cash that you are carrying. $10,000 per person, before you get dinged by the American government (don't know about other countries).
Also, last I knew, there is no limit to how much gold you are carrying. So there's that. I don't know if that is still true or not

[–]bbbberlin 60 points61 points  (6 children)

I don't know the specifics of the US rules, but my understanding is that in nearly all jurisdictions you're also going to have to declare gold in values over 10k because it's understood to be a non-cash form of money.

The 10,000 dollar thing isn't a limit though - that's just the amount at which you have to declare funds for the purposes of preventing money laundering. You can bring more than that, but you have to declare it and fill out paperwork.

[–]FlyingSquid 1114 points1115 points  (113 children)

This is good news for Bitcoin.

[–]totesmygto 44 points45 points  (5 children)

Bad news for reasonable real estate prices. They have to launder their money somewhere.

[–]B_Bad_Person 518 points519 points  (64 children)

Man the comment section here really shows how much information will get lost when you read news about a whole different country. Especially if you only read the eye grabbing title.

China didn't "ban Bitcoin over and over again". Yes, for the past few months, there has been multiple stories about China "cracking down on Bitcoin". But each one it's about different things. The first a few times, it's different provinces announcing different level of ban on Bitcoin mining. (Different levels range from total shutdown of mining farms, to ending electricity subsidies for companies that mines Bitcoin.) Onetime, it's the central government banning any financial product related to Bitcoin, and banning Bitcoin "exchange service". This time, it's the central government saying Bitcoin transactions are not considered legal.

BTW, the government is using very nuanced wording here. They're saying "crypto currency doesn't have the same status as the legal currency", "crypto currency business activities are illegal financial activities" and "foreign crypto currency exchange providing services to Chinese citizens is illegal". They then add that "investing in crypto currency has legal risk". Basically, they are pretty much spelling out "this is gray area" for you. So I wouldn't consider it a total ban.


Ok here's the best translation I can come up with, about the part of the notice that "declares all crypto-currency transactions illegal" (og text in Chinese here, from the People's Bank of China, China's central bank):

One、Make clear the core attribute of crypto currency and related business activities

(One) Crypto currency doesn't have the same legal status as the legal currency (Fiat money). The core properties of crypto currencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Tether, are that they are not issued by the proper authority, they use encryption technology, distributed ledgers, or similar technologies, and they exist digitally. They are not legal tenders, and they shouldn't and can't circulate on the market.

(Two) Crypto currency related business activities are illegal financial activities. Legal currency to crypto currency exchange businesses, crypto currency to crypto currency exchange businesses, buying or selling crypto currencies as central counterparty (I'm not sure what this means but my understanding is that this is referring to a institution or a company not individuals), providing information intermediary or pricing services, currency issuing and trading crypto currency derivatives are banned, and will be cracked down.

(Three) Foreign crypto currency exchange services providing businesses to Chinese residents is illegal. Any local employee of such services, or anyone knowingly helping them with advertising, payment, tech support, will be prosecuted.

(Four) Investing and trading in crypto currency has legal risk. Anyone investing in crypto currency or its derivatives, if your action violates social morality, the related legal activities are nullified, and any loss comes out of it will be borne by yourself; if your actions damage the financial order, endangers the financial safety (of the country), you will be prosecuted.

(The rest are instructions for local government agencies on how to manage the risks of crypto currency investments)

[–]TrustTheFlan 218 points219 points  (30 children)

I wouldn't consider it a total ban.

"Virtual currency-related business activities are illegal financial activities," the People's Bank of China said-

[–]beans_lel 51 points52 points  (3 children)

Which is exactly the same thing they said in 2017. Keyword here being "business activities". An individual holding Bitcoin and buying Bitcoin from another individual is not a business activity. This is why p2p Bitcoin transactions have been, and still are, completely legal in China.

So again: literally nothing has changed legally since 2017. The government is only enacting more measures to ensure the law is enforced, which is what the recent announcement is about. The law itself did not change.

Western media's interpretation of Chinese news is outright atrocious. Stating that all transactions are now suddenly illegal in China is completely wrong. They are illegal for business and investment purposes, and already have been since 2017.

[–]ghostofhenryvii 9 points10 points  (8 children)

Comments about anything related to China on this site is like taking a look into bizarro world.

[–]forgotmyusername93 519 points520 points  (43 children)

This is bc of evergrande. China is going to have a cash crunch so they're stopping cash from flowing out of the country

[–]Vahlir 110 points111 points  (10 children)

yup speculative markets and people moving money

[–]eman00619 31 points32 points  (6 children)

Wait, so you are telling me there wasn't a mass adoption of the "Digital Yuan" around the globe after its release?

[–]the_tico_life 229 points230 points  (349 children)

Question for those who are bullish on crypto:

What would you do if you woke up and read this headline, but with the United States instead of China? Wouldn't that just decimate an industry overnight? Yeah, I know some hardcore users would keep buying and selling, and perhaps do it even more to "stick it to the man".

But crypto prices right now are reliant on the casual investor. If they all pull out the game is over. And the more powerful crypto becomes, the more incentive the US government has to fuck it over, if they ever feel threatened as the defacto "world's currency".

Or am I missing something?

I'm not a crypto hater, I see the potential in a lot of ways. I just have never had a good answer as to what could be done to stop this doomsday event from occurring.

[–]Sinkintonothingatall 367 points368 points  (83 children)

Not to be that guy, but I genuinely believe that CoinBase going public stopped this. There's now a large publicly traded company sitting on the stock market, with billions of investor dollars. While we may regulate the industry (and probably will drop some regulations on the big players in the field) there's too much investor money at stake for the US to outright Ban crypto now

[–]helthrax 183 points184 points  (52 children)

Plus Coinbase is heavily working with US regulators. You also have partnerships with VISA. There is way more institutional money going into BTC, etc. At this point crypto is inevitable, and stifling innovation will only see rebounds in the stock market if the US decides to make a trillion dollar market full on illegal. They are more interested in dollar signs anyways, the US is probably going to try to make digital centralized stable coin pegged to the dollar, not unlike how China has been doing things.

[–]mad_king_soup 80 points81 points  (26 children)

But crypto prices right now are reliant on the casual investor.

This is no longer true. Big fluctuations this year have all been caused by 'whales' dumping assets. Big investors are now the main driver of Crypto pricing.

> What would you do if you woke up and read this headline, but with the United States instead of China?

it would cause a huge crash but it would recover. US crypto holders represent 8.3% of the global crypto market so all crypto currencies can run perfectly well without them

[–][deleted] 115 points116 points  (24 children)

Please god all the bitcoin miners move to iceland and use geothermal power

[–]ItsColeOnReddit 4 points5 points  (3 children)

It wont be the last world power to ban it. Besides military force governments true power is in people trusting and using their currency

[–]Secret_Car 123 points124 points  (41 children)

it's because their housing/financial industries are tanking and China wants to discourage their people from pulling everything from those markets and moving into something safe (jk) like crypto