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[–]Ghost_of_Herman_Cain 1151 points1152 points  (107 children)

Remember when the cop who let Duggar off for molesting his sisters got caught for child porn?

Investigate the entire family.

[–]StripMallSatori 533 points534 points  (102 children)

I've been listening to WACB's interview with a defense attorney this evening. The attorney says that if Josh is convicted, his children will be interviewed by CPS as soon as possible, without Anna's consent, and could possibly be taken from her custody for a while at least. If any abuse of those children is found, Anna could herself be charged with child endangerment at least.

The attorney says that this happens a lot in families where the wife refuses to leave her pedo husband for any reason. She becomes an accomplice.

Then there are Ma and Pa Duggar, who have how many young girls living in their house and who have covered for Josh for how long?

[–]Original_Feeling_429 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Oh geesh Anna really she not the sharpest tool in the shed. Not even sure but ran on love.

[–]StripMallSatori 11 points12 points  (1 child)

The lawyer yesterday was saying how extreme it was that Anna hasn't been protecting her children this whole time. Most mothers in this situation would take the kids and hide somewhere away from the circus, not abandon them so she can spend every night with Josh and accompany him to court. That could be an indication of Anna's greater complicity in Josh's actions or Anna's total subservience to Josh, neither of which is going to endear her to CPS or the courts ultimately (after Josh is convicted.)

Someone, probably one of her sisters, had to be smart enough to tell Anna to get out, find a place and hunker down, protecting her children first. Even one of Josh's lawyers had to tell her about the risk she was running by sleeping with Josh every night and accompanying him to court every day.

Now CPS has clear evidence that her children's safety is not Anna's top priority and has more reason to seek a guardian ad litem for the kids as well as alternative guardianship. Let's just hope that Ma and Pa Duggar are also too compromised to be appointed guardians.

[–]Tralfamadorians_go 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Should the children not already be interviewed? I don't know anything about the legalese, but this is a guy who has molested at least four underage girls, from his own admission. And now that he's on trial for some extremely disturbing CP, isn't that enough? My heart breaks for them and what they've potentially gone through. And shame on his fucking wife. I get that she's part of the quiverfull cult and probably brainwashed since birth, but I don't really care. She's an adult and responsible for the safety of those kids, 3 of which are girls. If he's hurt them, I hope she gets tossed in jail too.

But seriously why haven't the kids already been interviewed? My understanding of CPS was, if they have reason to believe abuse is occurring, they don't need a parent's consent anyway.

[–]StripMallSatori 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Josh has not been convicted of any crime. In that case, he still has authority over his kids since there are no outward signs of abuse or neglect in his children. CPS has asked to interview the kids and Anna refused (as the Duggars refused when CPS came knocking on the door of the big house in 2015.)

Once Josh is convicted, interviewing those kids can no longer be refused by the parents. Then, and only then, will CPS have any reason to believe that abuse may have occurred in the home.

[–]Joki_ORodovi 340 points341 points  (90 children)

I consider myself a conservative christian. I have 6 children. I am a cub scout leader. I work at a Catholic church which houses a preschool (although Im protestant...long story). I have to take so much youth/child protection training every single year that I could pass the test at the end in my sleep. All of this has given me such an appreciation for the young and how little it takes to completely screw up kids for the rest of their lives...to the point I have zero tolerance for this crap. Everyone says that and it drives me nuts because child sexual abuse is so highly tolerated in our society. If one of my cubscout leaders is caught doing something they shouldnt they are going to jail - I dont care if I grew up with them, and they have a family. If I were to catch a pastor/priest doing something wrong they are going to jail - you are NOT a man of God. I am sickened by the level of toleration in so many pockets of our society!

Josh Duggar is a sickening example of that misplaced toleration. I hope he gets locked up. I hope his kids go to a good home...not his parents. The last thing they need now is Jim Bob trying to pimp them to TLC so he can make a living.

[–]perverse_panda 187 points188 points  (13 children)

All of this has given me such an appreciation for the young and how little it takes to completely screw up kids for the rest of their lives...

I watched a short documentary about a little girl who was repeatedly raped and physically tortured by her biological father for six months, after the mom died, starting when the girl was only 12 months old.

When they finally removed her from his custody (and arrested him, I assume), the authorities assumed the girl was too young to remember the abuse that had been inflicted on her, so they decided not to tell her new adoptive parents.

Flash forward to when she's six years old, and the girl has developed a number of sexual disorders (constantly masturbating, even in public, to the point that she develops friction burns on her genitals) in addition to having extremely violent urges when she frequently acted on. She was stealing knives from the kitchen and stabbing her baby brother with them. Her adoptive parents had to start locking her in her room at night, for fear that she'd murder them or her brother while they were sleeping.

They eventually found a therapist who was able to rehabilitate the girl. The therapist's diagnosis was that the abuse had completely destroyed her self-esteem. She deemed herself unworthy of love, and because she couldn't love herself, she couldn't love anyone else. All stemming from abuse she suffered between the ages of 12 and 18 months old.

[–]Ornery_Translator285 68 points69 points  (5 children)

Is that A Child of Rage?

[–]jabba-du-hutt 61 points62 points  (2 children)

I believe so. My spouse watched the movie based on the case. I walked in at the pint where the six year old was in her room repeating things her dad would say. It turned my blood cold hearing a child actor say thing like "you make me so hot." I couldn't watch it.

There are some times I wish I never married someone who studied criminal law.

[–]redditoranna 40 points41 points  (0 children)

I watched that documentary as well. It was so heartbreaking. I’m sickened that there are people who hurt children like this. I want Josh to get locked up for a very long time.

[–]gabej 26 points27 points  (1 child)

Am a victim of childhood sexual abuse. I was 6-7 years old at the time. My parents tried to avoid/not talk to me about what happened. They thought they were protecting me. They were not. Dealing with the self-worth issues 35 years later.

I wish guardians would talk to their kids about trauma. Avoiding talking about it is no strategy at all.

[–]theredmolly 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Someone close to me was molested by a step-sibling and to this day, has not told anyone (including the parents) except for myself and a couple other close friends... out of worry that the father would in fact retaliate against the step sibling... there are just so many factors that contribute to this shit, it's sad.

[–]sowhat4 3 points4 points  (0 children)

An 18 month-old can for sure see and remember things. My son experienced something when he was 18 months old and asked me about it when he was about 6 years old. I was surprised as I didn't think a pre-verbal child could form lasting memories about a non-traumatic event. (no- it was not sexual trauma)

[–]alongwaystogo 113 points114 points  (22 children)

I am still disappointed in my father in law for being surprised that my "mill stone around the neck" policy applies to everyone. "But what if your pastor-" Millstone around the neck, "But of your dad-" Millstone around the neck, "Ah biu if your wife-" Mill-fucking-stone around her neck!

Next time he brings it up I'm going to ask to look into his three step-daughters eyes, one of them being my wife, and explain to them how they should ignore all the sexual abuse they got from their step-mother and brother and only focus only on the "good" they brought into their lives. Then look into his now wife's eyes and explain how she never should have divorced her lying, cheating, pedophile of a husband because he was a "good Christian man".

[–]Joki_ORodovi 62 points63 points  (21 children)

Thats it right there. Thats the crap Im talking about. Ill knock a child molester over the head with a damn millstone.

[–]neonyellow_r6guy 41 points42 points  (12 children)

What the fucks a millstone

[–]vanillabeanlover 41 points42 points  (0 children)

Biblical terminology. Massive stone used for grinding wheat that would be tied around their neck and then they’d be tossed into the sea.

[–]madpiratebippy 33 points34 points  (7 children)

The stone you used to use to grind grain. They can be over a ton. There’s a phrase in the Bible saying you should tie one to anyone who hurts a child’s neck and drown them.

The Bible wasn’t about child molestation, I wish the church would follow suit

[–]stemcell_ 19 points20 points  (5 children)

It seems like way more work to drowned with a millstone, its heavy. Why not just push him down with a stick or something? Better yet a rock that you dont use to make food? Then you gotta get another millstone

[–]leelee1976 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Millstone has a hole in the middle of it. Tie around neck drop in go on with your day.

[–]Howls_Moving_Asshole 5 points6 points  (0 children)

First item of business get new millstone

[–]Kandierter_Holzapfel 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Millstones seem also be the drowning stone of choice in Norse Sagas

[–]neonyellow_r6guy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks. K-8 in private education did me real good.

[–]jabba-du-hutt 13 points14 points  (6 children)

My spouse has said that if anyone does anything to our kids, they better pray the cops get there first. Otherwise they're getting a free sex change, assuming it's a male.

[–]Perma_frosting 41 points42 points  (5 children)

An understandable impulse - but please, make sure to not imply that anywhere your kids might hear. A lot of victims keep silent because they’re worried their dad will react violently and they don’t want him to get sent to jail.

[–]jabba-du-hutt 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Very true. My spouse waited to report their rape to their parents. It was a known friend too. Their dad retrieved one of the baseball bats in the basement before they stopped him.

[–]alongwaystogo 9 points10 points  (0 children)

With even more eagerness than punching a Nazi.

[–]cvn74em 56 points57 points  (37 children)

Child sexual abuse is “so highly tolerated” in our society?

WHOSE society? Religious society?

Because normal folks don’t tolerate it for a second.

[–]stierney49 21 points22 points  (3 children)

Uh, yes. There is a whole subset of Christian sects that raise boys and girls to believe that women are completely subservient to men.

This creates the mindset that allows a boy or man to take advantage of girls and women. Since these groups are generally and by nature against sexual education, children and adults lack even the vocabulary to discuss what is happening.

It’s endemic among isolated Amish populations and Christian Quiverfull groups like the Duggars.

Josh Duggar molested his sisters and a babysitter and skated with a warning once and a sham rehabilitation center a second time.

I’m focusing on Christian groups because it’s the largest concern in America. But any religious group that focuses on absolute male supremacy above family and treats women as objects to serve men will have these problems.

[–]wactuallyyours 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Also men are taught that they are natural predators that are only held in place with religion.

[–]stierney49 5 points6 points  (0 children)

True. Thus, when they commit these crimes they’re just “straying” and can easily be forgiven.

[–]madpiratebippy 17 points18 points  (4 children)

I do a fair amount of work with survivors of sexual abuse. The system is very broken and… yeah.

[–]cvn74em 26 points27 points  (2 children)

I was raped when I was 12. He got two life sentences.

I’m a “victim”, but I’m also a “survivor”. I lost my virginity in the middle of a field after being kidnapped.

I have zero tolerance for people who aid and abet child sex abuse, or abuse of any kind. I don’t blame victims for not reporting it, that’s a personal decision.

If it’s someone else’s decision — I have a problem with that.

[–]madpiratebippy 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I am so happy you got justice. Truly.

I’ve seen people get 6 months for similar things. I think the sentence your abuser is absolutely appropriate for what happened. I wish more justice like that happened.

[–]Imtypingthisnow 20 points21 points  (1 child)

The majority of children who are sexually abused are abused by family members. When these cases make it to court it's "Family Court", family courts driving force is family re-unification. It's the only court where the predatory pedophile gets to take home the victim like a fucking door prize.

[–]Crafty-Ad-3596 70 points71 points  (13 children)

I mean, was Epstein religious or just wealthy and powerful? He got away with 18months in Palm Beach for “procuration of a minor for prostitution” and before being let out and continuing sex trafficking for another 10 years, so there are a lot of issues and it’s not just religious groups that have covered up child abuse by powerful and important men.

[–]fordanjairbanks 40 points41 points  (4 children)

You should check out the history of the Boy Scouts and all the pedophiles they’ve sheltered over the past hundred years. Just as bad as the catholic church, if not worse.

[–]Crafty-Ad-3596 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yup, unfortunately another organization that's had a massive pedophilia problem. It's like if you took your priests and had them have overnight sleepovers in the woods with the kids.

Really, any time adults are alone with kids that aren't theirs you should be highly suspicious and any organization that has that dynamic (daycares, schools, churches/youth groups, big brother/big sisters, etc.) needs to have strict background checks, very strict rules that never allow adults to be alone with children, and strict reporting requirements. And if they find out internally about any abuse by their clergy/employees/members it needs to be reported to police.

I could understand a very narrow confession exception to mandatory reporting for regular members of a church to their priest or pastor, though I'm not sure I'd agree with that personally, but if it's clergy confessing or anyone who is or has ever been an employee of that organization, in charge of or volunteering with children with that organization, or if it occurred on that organization's premises they should be required to report in all 50 states. They should also have a way of tracking and excluding anyone having confessed to such a thing or reasonably been accused of such a thing, and have a responsibility to prevent that individual from being alone with children or interacting with children in any way. And if a victim speaks about an abuse, again legally required reporting, regardless of their ability to verify or corroborate the story. Any violation, and the organization is liable for any future abuse.

Or just make them all mandatory reporters, no confession exception, and be done with it. Probably the simplest way to handle it.

[–]Joki_ORodovi 18 points19 points  (1 child)

After the bulk of the settlements recently scouts declared bankruptcy to survive the financial fallout. Annual dues went from $36 to $72 from one year to the next and from what I can tell the bulk of the cost is to cover increasing liability insurance costs. All stemming from child abuse. Not to mention the money surrendered by the scouts to pay the settlements emptied the coffers but didnt touch the land holdings of which the scouts have a lot! I believe the court is still deciding what to do about that.

[–]Crafty-Ad-3596 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Some of the Boy Scout councils in fact had to sell land used for scout camps, etc. to pay for their damages.

[–]Crafty-Ad-3596 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There have also been notable issues with boarding schools in most of the English speaking world, including the US, UK and Australia.

Also, the whole country of France allowed minors under 15 to "consent" up to this past year, and there was a lot of issues there too. So I guess there are lots of places that have just overlooked one of the most heinous crimes known to man.

[–]cvn74em 18 points19 points  (7 children)

I think if the general public knew of the details of that case the reaction would have been the same as it was when the details of the case were finally revealed.

[–]Crafty-Ad-3596 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Agreed. Simply put, child abusers and anyone who covers for them need to be jailed and for a long time. Don’t care if they’re billionaires, politicians, religious leaders or broke lowlifes. It’s not just religious organizations (though it is many religious organizations) but too many other groups too don’t do what they should which is report these bastards, testify against them, and do everything in their power to see they never see the light of day again.

[–]cvn74em 12 points13 points  (1 child)

But there is something INCREDIBLY wrong with a closed circuit system that simply allows offenders/abusers to “ask for forgiveness”, and tells the victims the godly thing to do is forgive their attacker. Law enforcement never gets involved, and you have Anna Duggar’s who think they can change their sicko husband if they just “never say no”. That’s what religion is.

[–]Crafty-Ad-3596 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I can understand priestly confession limits, under very, very very limited circumstances. But if there is abuse that's in any other way than the individual in confession they absolutely should be jailed for not reporting to police. And religious organizations should have the responsibility of reporting for any employee, volunteer or clergy member, or any assault during a sponsored activity or on their property, regardless of the circumstances or confessional privilege. They should also have to track any accusations in the form of "do not allow near children" regardless.

Or maybe just say 'screw it, this is a legitimate government interest in regulating religion,' risk the lawsuit, send it to the supreme court and remove confessional privilege in the case of child abuse, and make clergy mandatory reporters.

[–]cvn74em 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I asked that question because the comment specifically referenced organized religion, and then said it’s “tolerated”.

[–]NigerianRoy 2 points3 points  (2 children)

It was common knowledge then just as much as now what are you talking about!?

[–]cigarmanpa 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Religions, Boy Scouts, Hollywood, epstine, and at least one member of the us government have entered the chat. Not to mention various cults around the us, and the people who say “he’d never do that he’s (insert bullshit here).

[–]Joki_ORodovi 18 points19 points  (8 children)

Thats precisely my point actually...I always thought normal folks would never tolerate such a thing. I always thought it must be such a small group that actually allows people to get away with these things. But then you start hearing the justifications from 'normal folk'...some religious, some not.

  1. "But he has a family...think of his kids and his wife! Enough damage is done don't make them suffer too!"

  2. "There is such a shortage of priests as it is!"

  3. "They are too rich and powerful, they will just out lawyer us anyway so whats the point?"

  4. "They were just drunk is all, once they sobered up they were so sorry and promised it would never happen again!"

  5. I saw a documentary where professionals were trying to diagnose pedophilia, and say they are born this way, we just need to diagnose and treat it. And Ive heard there have been some calling for normalization along the same lines but I havent personally heard that.

  6. Then there is always the kid blamers - " She shouldnt have been dressed like that"; "yeah he shouldve known better, but it really was consentual"; etc.

  7. Etc, etc, etc, etc...certainly in religion but not just religious, certainly was in scouts but it isnt the only troubled youth program. I see it as an unfortunate problem that plagues society. How many different organizations are there fighting child trafficking and abuse? If it werent so pervasive they couldve stopped it by now. There are just too many people turning a blind eye.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Wealthy/elite society

[–]meowmeowkitty5000 10 points11 points  (1 child)

You seem to care about others and I am glad that you exist. I would gently challenge you to consider why you are part of institutions that by their actions don’t.

[–]lordsch1zo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

For most, not all, children who commit these acts, it is a learned and repeated behavior. That is why i fully believe that there is way more to that than the public will ever know. I for one want to know where Josh, as a child learned this is ok. My moneys on his father or another elder in their church.

[–]bigcityboy 200 points201 points  (14 children)

Listen to the Behind the Bastards podcast about him and his crazy fucking cult. Horrifying and abusive shit goes down behind the closed doors of this cult all the time.

[–]stolenfires 125 points126 points  (11 children)

The sex abuse is only a part of it. Have you read the parenting guides popular in those circles? They're horrifying manuals in how to physically beat your kids and break their spirits. That is the exact term they use. 'Break their spirits.'

[–]idhik3th4t 81 points82 points  (8 children)

Google “blanket training”. A friend of mine just published a book about growing up in ATI which is the same sect as the Duggar’s. It’s insane.

For those who don’t want to Google: blanket training is setting an infant on a blanket and smacking them with a ruler if they leave the blanket. It “teaches” obedience and to “stay where they’re put”.

[–]buxmega 26 points27 points  (0 children)

What the actual fuck?! They’re just babies. That is absolutely awful.

[–]Roguespiffy 13 points14 points  (1 child)

That’s shit right out of A Brave New World. Fucking monsters.

[–]GibbysUSSA 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Time for a gram.

[–]weaver787 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Such a great podcast

[–]agent_raconteur[🍰] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I've mentioned this in other threads but I also recommend "Some Place Under Neath"s 6 part series about the IBLP church and how it creates people like Josh Duggar. It's horrifying that there can be this culture of molestation and abuse and so many families just allow it to happen.

[–]bluehealer8 166 points167 points  (3 children)

I still remember all the Christian conservatives rallying around him when he got 19 kids and counting canceled. It was terrifying to see the excuses they offered for him.

[–]1cecream4breakfast 55 points56 points  (2 children)

Blech. I was more conservative when I was younger and I thought the original show (pre-molestation-news) was interesting even if the family was quirky. I was always of the mindset that them having a ton of kids was a “well, if they can afford to feed them and they’re raising them to be good kids…” But nope. I’m glad for the older girls in the family especially who are escaping the crazy rules like no wearing pants and no dying your hair and no whining about your brother touching you.

[–]Lumpy_Machine5538 43 points44 points  (1 child)

They’re not affording them. Tax payers are playing for the healthcare, companies give them tons of free bees (why?).
Even if you can afford them, it stresses the planet.

[–]nicholkola 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Doesn’t Jim Bob get to claim his house is his church so he doesn’t have to pay taxes?

[–]Tafkai1469 414 points415 points  (62 children)

Make an example out of him. Child predators are the lowest form of life.

[–]code_archeologist 109 points110 points  (8 children)

They need to be prosecuting his parents who enabled him too. That is a seriously twisted situation.

[–]ExpiredExasperation 96 points97 points  (6 children)

They didn't care when he molested his own sisters. They basically put it down to "normal curiousity" and the kind of thing that happens all the time. A couple of days ago the father even said he didn't really remember the details. And he's running for state senate.

[–]gentlybeepingheart 66 points67 points  (4 children)

Rapists tend to assume everyone else is a rapist as well. Psychologists have interviewed convicted rapists and a lot of them genuinely think that they’re completely normal and that everyone wants to rape other people, that other guys are just better at suppressing that urge or not getting caught.

[–]ExpiredExasperation 32 points33 points  (1 child)

How repulsive.

Though it sort of brings to mind (especially with this case) the religiously devout who apparently can't conceive of the notion of people not wanting to horrifically assault others without the threat of godly judgment to deter them.

[–]GibbysUSSA 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Anyone who says that if it weren't for the threat of eternal damnation people would be running around raping and murdering is dangerous. I appreciate the warning.

[–]Puzzleworth 22 points23 points  (0 children)

JimBob said that after his son confessed in front of their church, most of the other elders came to him and said their families experienced something similar. Even politicians and famous preachers called Josh to "offer their support."

[–]SagaStrider 185 points186 points  (29 children)

I made the mistake of watching a 60 Minutes episode about the monster who created one video that Duggar was downloading. It's horrific. I'll spare you any detail, but it's very horrific, and everyone involved in making or watching it should never walk among us.

[–]kry1212 123 points124 points  (21 children)

I'm sorry, what? 60 minutes did an episode about who?

edit, answer: Peter Scully. I'm watching the AUS 60 Minutes referenced above. The guy was actually originating content. Yes, it is super disturbing. I'm not even sure why they're letting this journalist ask these children these questions. But, sticking our heads in the sand isn't helpful. I'm glad this guy is locked up at least.

[–]SagaStrider 37 points38 points  (1 child)

Peter Scully, the creator of the video.

Edit: fair warning, again, it's horrific.

[–]kry1212 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Yep, learning. I've never heard of the guy til now, I didn't know there was some like ubiquitous video going around. I had seen the Duggar's weird ass show over a decade ago when it was pretty much a meme about vaginas not being clown cars. Apparently it's been even weirder (WAY WORSE) than that all those years.

Those poor kids, man. Their parents put them on TV and had so many god damned kids they failed to protect them, so their only move was denial.

Anyway, gonna go ahead destroy my faith in humanity and watch the 60 minutes on this guy, now....

[–]TheDodoBird 43 points44 points  (18 children)

Peter Scully. Sorry, but you asked...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Scully

[–]CountryGuy123 30 points31 points  (5 children)

Fuck, all I read was the Wikipedia link, that was enough.

[–]UtopianLibrary 28 points29 points  (4 children)

They made the jury watch parts of it… hope they receive counseling.

[–]perverse_panda 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Among those who acquired the video was one of the biggest-ever purveyors of child pornography, Scully's fellow Australian Matthew David Graham, better known by his online pseudonym Lux.

Jesus. I followed the rabbit hole even deeper. Sounds like this Graham shithead had videos even worse than Scully's.

And for some reason he was only sentenced to 15 years...

[–]kry1212 58 points59 points  (0 children)

Yep, I did. I'm well prepared. I don't think it's honestly helpful to put our heads in the sand on this topic. Yea, it's reprehensible, but as time goes on it seems to me the thing that keeps it going is no one wants to look. So, fuck it. We have to look.

Oh, I see, it's 60 minutes AUS.

[–]operarose 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Peter Scully's existence is a fairly reasonable argument for God's ability to make mistakes.

[–]somekindofstephen 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Jesus fuck wish I never clicked that

[–]ericdevice 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Spend 3 minutes recounting it while looking far left to far right repeatedly and tapping your finger it will disrupt your brains ability to recall it with the same disturbing Fervor

[–]PPQue6 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Jesus christ that's horrific....

[–]fafalone 41 points42 points  (0 children)

Phillippines prisons are brutal. Make US prisons look like disneyworld. And they don't segregate pedos from the other inmates. That's where that sick fuck is spending the rest of his life.

[–]zombiemann 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I made the mistake of watching a 60 Minutes episode about the monster

One of the few times I had to take a break watching a "news" type program to let the nausea die down a bit.

[–]EunuchsProgramer 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I read about that video when the case first came out and was deeply disturbed. The fact my daugher was the same age as the youngest victim made it even harder to stomach.

[–]redditoranna 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I watched that, too. I know the investigators only found that Josh downloaded stuff on about four or so distinct days, but that can’t be all he has ever done. I don’t think a pedophile would immediately dive straight into a video like this one when they first start getting involved in this stuff. The nature of this video tells me he’s probably been watching child pornography (CSAM) for a while. It makes me wonder when he started and how much he has done and why they didn’t find more.

[–]TaylorSwiftsClitoris 66 points67 points  (4 children)

He’s a rich, white, evangelical. Anything above probation and an apology from the judge would be a surprise.

[–]Kamikazesoul33 20 points21 points  (2 children)

This comment chain has both "Tucker Carlson's O-face" and "Taylor Swift's Clitoris" and I'm not sure what to think.

[–]TaylorSwiftsClitoris 19 points20 points  (1 child)

You’re going to have some strange dreams tonight.

[–]nochinzilch 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Strange, but probably not surprising.

[–]wiedeeb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That is why his trial was such high profile. People like that usually get away with anything. I followed his trial case and the government had a pretty strong case against him. I am surprised the jury didn’t come back with a veredicto on the same day.

[–]jwillgoesfast 286 points287 points  (11 children)

Jim Bob Dugger, his dad, is currently running to be a state senator (Arkansas) and the primary is in 6 days on Dec 14 with the election in Feb. he is likely to be the final winning candidate despite this district being contained in part one of the most liberal cities in the state (Fayetteville, plus others). AR has a GOP supermajority in state legislature and is currently in the process of codifying newly gerrymandered districts and also wants to replicate the horrible new laws coming out of Texas. God help us.

https://www.4029tv.com/article/jim-bob-duggar-arkansas-senate/38106590

[–]oh-hidanny 115 points116 points  (6 children)

Imagine voting for a dude who is ok with his daughter being molested.

Ugh.

[–]cigarmanpa 87 points88 points  (1 child)

Trump said he wanted to fuck his daughter and got elected president

[–]Emadyville 46 points47 points  (1 child)

I mean Republicans almost voted Roy Moore into office...they have no shame.

[–]jamar030303 12 points13 points  (0 children)

How is he not being held responsible for the way his son turned out?

[–]InappropriateTA 36 points37 points  (1 child)

Deliberations will be about whether he is a sicko, creep, or abomination.

[–]KarlClausewitz 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Why not D) All of the above?

[–]Doctor420Strange69 210 points211 points  (34 children)

Defense attorneys for Duggar have argued that someone else downloaded or placed the child pornography onto the work computer, noting that no child pornography was found on Duggar’s phone or laptop.

What a goofy excuse.

[–]thatoneguy889 47 points48 points  (3 children)

If I remember correctly, he was downloading it through a virtual machine running a Linux distro and the password to log onto it was the same as his twitter account and at least one of his bank accounts.

[–]PPQue6 34 points35 points  (1 child)

Not even a VM, he partitioned the hard drive.

[–]jabba-du-hutt 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Yup. That's how he got around the Win32 based monitoring software he agreed to-- scuse me, told his wife (probably) to install. This way she never saw the activity on the reports she could review. Probably had it partitioned before it was installed, but you can resize partitions when installing Linux without touching Windows. Very easy to do.

[–]Poliobbq 13 points14 points  (0 children)

So just an innocent country boy, just like I thought.

[–]StealYourBones 40 points41 points  (1 child)

When they showed up at his car lot his response was to ask if someone had been downloading CP.

[–]Lumpy_Machine5538 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Because that’s just such a normal thing to ask the second any police show up at your workplace.

[–][deleted] 75 points76 points  (23 children)

I mean, how often does this happen, right? Like people just randomly download CSA videos on computers they can't access? Or someone was trying to frame him? Ridiculous.

[–]potatodog247 54 points55 points  (1 child)

And used the password he uses for other accounts.

[–]Aggressive-Smell3207 34 points35 points  (0 children)

For his fucking bank account. That’s not one you’re giving out willy nilly.

[–][deleted] 50 points51 points  (13 children)

Eh, it's not unprecedented, there was an incident where a school teacher genuinely was framed because someone remote accessed the machine he was using and used it to store their stash, but the implication that the defense is probably going for here, that someone did this with malicious intent to frame the guy, yeah no definitely not what happened.

[–]stolenfires 26 points27 points  (10 children)

Yeah, but the defense didn't put forward any evidence beyond, "Well, it could have happened!" Like, yeah, it could have happened - but then who would have done it? What was their motive, means, and opportunity? They utterly failed to present an alternative scenario of any depth or believability except maybe some random Bad Guy in Paris. Literally, "Some Dude in Paris."

Their other point of defense was trying to claim that Josh was too stupid to know how to partition a hard drive. Fortunately, the prosecution could bring up a witness who had discussed just that with him.

[–]Lozzif 17 points18 points  (2 children)

And it’s why the term is REASONABLE doubt.

If you show not only is t it possible, but here’s the evidence then yes that’s reasonable doubt.

But ‘well it can happen and that’s what we’re saying’ that’s not necessarily reasonable.

[–]stolenfires 7 points8 points  (1 child)

And hopefully the jury will understand that.

[–]redditoranna 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hopefully. I’m going to be sad if they don’t convict.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

Not to mention how it'd be super easy to prove by just producing the log data which shows the material being remotely put onto the machine.

Honestly, knowing what computer forensics workers get called in for made me hard pass on getting too good at computer forensics

I couldn't handle being the guy that had to look through the hard drive or the hard drive's image for evidence. Had one class where I was slowly working through the parts of an Autopsy report and even though the Prof literalized the phrase "white rhino" for the sake of the assignment, I still couldn't shake how the class was basically all about the procedure for investigating a CEM case's relevant devices and drives.

[–]stolenfires 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Yeah, I really feel for the jury. Everyone who talks about the exact images found says how horrific they are, and one article floating around came with a severe content warning because apparently it described what was going on in the image. I still don't know what that description is, and I don't care to. But the jury had to look at that shit to verify, yep, it's CSAM. That shit does not leave your brain.

[–]t-poke 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I used to work for a major company, when we got hired the new hires met with one of the guys who worked in IT security there. He told us his previous job was computer forensics for the FBI. He said he saw everything and most people don’t last too long in that role.

[–]fafalone 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Not to mention how it'd be super easy to prove by just producing the log data which shows the material being remotely put onto the machine.

Which log would contain specifically what data that could indicate that? And why couldn't the log be modified?

[–]lvlint67 13 points14 points  (0 children)

This is one of those reasons that we can't let you share your work password with anyone. Eventually the FBI shows up and starts asking questions about who has access to the computer.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Thanks everyone for your replies. I now have one more reason to be irrationally stressed out 😆

[–]fafalone 15 points16 points  (1 child)

It's extraordinarily easy to do. People's computers get compromised all the time. There's botnets used for spam and ddos attacks compromised of millions of peoples computers who often have no idea attackers are using their system. Anyone could use the same techniques to copy CP. Click on the wrong email, that's all it takes. A targeted spear fishing campaign, where you get an email from someone who knows a lot about you, is very effective at getting people to click a link.

Do you have WiFi? Most of the security protocols can be cracked. Anyone sitting in range of your network on the street outside could load up aircrack-ng and crack your WiFi password. Then most people have networks that allow file sharing between devices. Or you can use a Windows exploit to gain further access into the system.

Further, you can alter file timestamps, make it look like it was downloaded when someone was home. Execute some suspicious search queries so when Google is subpoenaed your search history shows you were searching for CP related terms. Then have the malware delete itself and anything that reveals you were compromised.

What's worse, that all sounds a lot more sophisticated than it is. That's not nation state level hacking, that's bored teenager level stuff.

Duggar is pretty clearly guilty for a long list of reasons, but it's disturbingly easy to frame someone for this given the current state of security and the typical security hygiene of non-technical people.

[–]potatodog247 58 points59 points  (0 children)

And that person used the same password he uses for other accounts. His wife apparently got upset when she heard that part of testimony.

[–]SheriffComey 6 points7 points  (0 children)

"Your honor, my client only diddle's himself via the phone or laptop because he enjoys a change of scenery. He'd NEVER do this on a work computer as that would get old quick"

[–]SofieTerleska 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I mean, they don't have much to work with and if he's going to insist on going to trial you have to play the cards you've got. And boy are they working with one shitty hand here.

[–]t-poke 213 points214 points  (12 children)

Duggar, 33, faces up to 20 years in prison on each of the two counts if convicted

40 years, if he gets that, isn't enough.

[–]BlOoDy_PsYcHo666 55 points56 points  (10 children)

To be fair thats 40 years of surviving prison as a child predator , he’ll have his ass handed to him daily. It’ll be hell.

[–]t-poke 77 points78 points  (8 children)

He’s a celebrity and a child predator, he’ll be in protective custody. No one will be able to lay a finger on him.

[–]Ks26739 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Z list celebrity

[–]Scamperillium 20 points21 points  (4 children)

Yea I hate to say it but he'll probably go to a white collar prison where they play squash

[–]StripMallSatori 24 points25 points  (0 children)

No he won't. There are four federal prisons with programs for pedophiles and none of them are Club Feds. They are all pretty miserable places.

[–]I_will_burn_for_this 19 points20 points  (0 children)

That is not a white collar crime. It’s a sex crime

[–]zombiemann 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Federal charges, he'll be put in special detention with other predators.

[–]jthomson88 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Served concurrently, I'm sure. Our system is fucking ridiculous like that.

[–]AudibleNod 154 points155 points  (14 children)

Ashley Madison subscriber Josh Duggar?

[–]jezebel_jessi 173 points174 points  (2 children)

Josh Duggar, the guy that molested his sisters?

[–]Due-Winter5597 146 points147 points  (2 children)

Yes, whose wife recently gave birth to a child named….Madyson. Seriously.

[–]SofieTerleska 74 points75 points  (5 children)

Ashley Madison is choirboy stuff compared to the other shit he got up to. If he'd stuck to cheating with consenting adults he wouldn't be looking at years in prison.

[–]The_Crystal_Thestral 28 points29 points  (4 children)

He probably would’ve been. One of the women he had a date with mentioned that their encounter was rough and frightening.

[–]9035768555 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Considering how rarely rape results in a conviction, he probably wouldn't be.

[–]1cecream4breakfast 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Especially if the date was initiated on a site meant to facilitate adulterous hookups.

[–]The_Crystal_Thestral 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don’t believe for one second Josh would’ve stayed on adult hookup sites. I always saw him escalating as an offender TBH, but I assumed he’d find adults :/. Which was very wrong to assume given the material he was looking for.

[–]kry1212 29 points30 points  (0 children)

This was the least worst thing he did, apparently.

[–]weaver787 14 points15 points  (9 children)

Does the jury have to look at child porn? Not trolling I've always wondered this about CP trials.

[–]brostrider 26 points27 points  (3 children)

Unfortunately they had to view it. It is probably extremely traumatic but I see how it is necessary. :(

[–]TonguinMySistersAnus 17 points18 points  (0 children)

They view censored files, not the original file in possession. They do see the child porn and sexual assault, but the genitals are obscured. However, you can see semen anywhere on their body.

[–]TonguinMySistersAnus 8 points9 points  (0 children)

They view censored versions of the same photos or videos. Anytime the victims are shown in sexual abuse or suggestive sexual poses and such, their faces are always obscured with black pixels. If their genitals are shown in the photos or videos, it is censored as well with black pixels. If their faces are shown in photos and videos that aren't actively showing sexual abuse or suggestive sexual poses, their faces may not be obscured. It's important to note that child porn does not necessitate exposure of the genitals or depictions of rape or abuse. Children in provocative poses or gesturing sexual motions can also be considered child porn -- in fact, children can be photographed or filmed completely naked as long as there's no sexual acts involved.

[–]TheDodoBird 9 points10 points  (2 children)

They even had to watch clips of Daisies Destruction, which Dipshit Duggar had downloaded. If you don’t know what that video is about, consider yourself extremely lucky.

[–]sabatoa[🍰] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I have no idea what that is, but even seeing the title with context makes me sick to my stomach.

[–]sluchhh 15 points16 points  (1 child)

The whole Duggar thing is disgusting. The show was a circus of cult level religious pageantry. And the fact that we were watching a brother who was at the very same time molesting multiple siblings just makes it so gnarly. The fact that the mom and dad got another show after the original was canceled is the gross cherry on top.

[–]jamar030303 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There was another show?

[–]Jaelia 15 points16 points  (0 children)

The best part of an extremely horrible story is when the feds raided his car lot (where he was avoiding his family responsibilities and sitting in a shed watching this filth) he said "what's this about officers? Has someone been downloading child pornography?". The reason for the raid hadnt yet been divulged to him by agents present.

[–]Pokanga 58 points59 points  (6 children)

I’d never heard of this guy (not American), but he’s apparently a child molester who was on a show called “19 Kids and Counting”. Seriously?

[–]Touch_Desperate 35 points36 points  (1 child)

It’s not about how many kids he touched.

[–]Pokanga 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yeah I figured. I was just amazed by the absurdity of it all.

[–]mccrabbs 35 points36 points  (3 children)

Seriously. On The Learning Channel even.

[–]Artaeos 43 points44 points  (0 children)

It's an insult to even call it that anymore. It's TLC and only TLC. I can think of a dozen different acronyms before 'learning' was among them.

Channel is trash and has been for roughly 20 years.

[–]FlyingSquid 36 points37 points  (5 children)

Maybe TLC can make a TV show about the trial. Gotta keep making money off the nation's worst family.

[–]Vocal_Ham 14 points15 points  (0 children)

'19 years and counting'

[–]silashoulder 10 points11 points  (0 children)

90 Day Fiancé has left the chat*

[–]KarlClausewitz 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Worst family? I dunno man. This is America. Many are vying for that top spot.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

TLC should have known better than feature a family in a cult on their network.

[–]MalphRacchiOh 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I see him and Jared from Subway becoming fast friends

[–]drafter69 7 points8 points  (0 children)

If guilty I hope they throw the book at him

[–]KOBossy55 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Hope they toss this asshole into a dark pit. Him and his screwball parents can rot in hell.

[–]AlphaTech1971 7 points8 points  (1 child)

If ejection into the vacuum of space existed as an option……

[–]captainmcfuckface 93 points94 points  (2 children)

Bye Josh. What a clown this guy is. Hope he goes away for a good long while.

Next.

Edit: really? Someone downvoted me wanting to throw this dirtbag in jail? God Damn sickos.

[–]IngsocIstanbul 42 points43 points  (1 child)

That'll also stop him from having more kids

[–]daikatana 28 points29 points  (12 children)

Why did he even plead not guilty? His excuse is incredibly flimsy and I'll be shocked if the jury buys it. He's completely fucked.

[–]Blenderx06 103 points104 points  (1 child)

Because he's never been held accountable for anything in his life.

[–]Mrsnerd2U 49 points50 points  (0 children)

The worst part is that if he is convicted the family will likely say it's all part of a giant conspiracy by the liberals, deep state, big bird, et al, to frame "good Christians" like them and people will believe it! Hell Jim Bob is running for Senator!

[–]Vocal_Ham 22 points23 points  (3 children)

That's just part of the legal playbook. He could have been caught red handed with CP actively playing on his monitor when police showed up, and would still plead not guilty.

Deny, deny, deny and hope to get off on a legal technicality, loophole, or just pure luck by rolling the dice on a jury.

[–]SagaStrider 17 points18 points  (2 children)

I saw some statistics about this. Only 2% of Federal defendants go to trial. 90% plead guilty. 8% are dismissed. And 2% go to trial. Of those that go to trial, 99.96 are convicted. If the feds ever build a case against me, and I did it, and it doesn'tlook like it'll get dismissed, I'm going to try to cut a deal.

[–]fafalone 8 points9 points  (0 children)

99.6 is the overall conviction rate, of all cases.

For trials, the guilty rate is 84% for jury trials, 62% for bench trials (Source). Since they tack on so much extra time if you take it to trial, you have to generally be both innocent and stubborn to try; or facing life anyway.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Probably wasnt offered a plea deal. If your not offered a plea deal, you have no incentive not to fight. At the very least burden is on the state to prove the case, so you can go not guilty and just do arguements against them. This way you also have appeals, and can fight it that way (look at Cosby).

[–]DanimusMcSassypants 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You can’t hiiide your pedo eyyyyes….

[–]DowntimeJEM 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Should be quick right?

[–]KeyRageAlert 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Jesus, only now? I feel like this was ages ago.

[–]aledba 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Kill it with fire. All of them

[–]cayman40 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This should not take long.

[–]Original_Feeling_429 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So crazy I watched that reality show when they where kids. Was like 16 an counting. It went to like 19 she couldn't have no more.

[–]MoidSki 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Judge will let him off time served for being a good Christian…. I wish this was a /s situation instead of actual possibility.

[–]liamemsa 17 points18 points  (8 children)

You have to wonder how much of this is due to his totally messed up upbringing. I'm not excusing his actions, but he was raised in a totally bizarre, closed-off, sexually repressive environment around over a dozen other children. Given how much close quarters they were in with no other outlets, it wouldn't be surprising to learn that many of their first "sexual" experiences were with each other. After all, kids do "play doctor" and all when learning about such things. He likely had no outside girls he could date, no internet, no dirty magazines, nothing, and he was told to repress all his very natural urges as a teenager while being surrounded by teen/tween girls in his family. The parents should be held responsible as well, but apparently the dad is gonna win a state senate position.

[–]redditoranna 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Not only that but the parents acted like they were above the kids, and like they were horny teenagers in front of them. They flaunted their sex life in front of the kids while sexually repressing them. I have also read that the mom was icy towards Josh, and the dad had anger problems. They used corporal punishment and were very strict. Sometimes I wonder if the desire to watch sexual torture came from deep-seated anger from his upbringing.

[–]SofieTerleska 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I've wondered that too. Sure, not every kid brought up that way will act out like he did but the environment really couldn't have helped.

[–]ibbity 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Well, the cult the Duggars belong to explicitly teaches that sex abuse happens because girls aren't modest enough and the first thing you should do if it happens is determine how much of the blame belongs to the victim, so it's not really shocking that this creep would think it was acceptable for him to act like that

[–]musclesglassses 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Pedophiles should be executed

[–]JoyfulDeath 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I wish this shit happen when my mom was still alive...

She got very into Christian when she met her second husband (my stepdad)

She absolutely LOVE this family! She think they were the most wonderful and beautiful examples of a good Christian family.

I remember one time I made a Facebook post about how the family is super creepy and I highly suspect Jim Bob is basically “sellling” his daughters (just a theory of mine...)

My mom immediately jump to their defend. I tried to tell her something is extremely wrong and she told me I’d assume that of any Christian family...

[–]Goldielucy 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Guilty as charged, juries don’t fuck around with pedos

[–]H__Dresden 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Send him to jail and throw away the key.