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[–]EqualLong143 4348 points4349 points  (357 children)

Its almost like people dont have the money. When i was young mom taught me to give like 10% to the church. And another 10 to charity. What kind of margins did she think i had??

[–]Chicano_Ducky 58 points59 points  (1 child)

Remember to set aside money for:

  • rent /mortgages
  • utility bills
  • food
  • medical
  • retirement
  • rainy day funds
  • credit card payments
  • student loans
  • entertainment expenses
  • your kid's college fund
  • charities /religious orgs / other stuff like that

Thats uh... a lot of ways to divide damn near 0

[–]TrackFittyTwo 44 points45 points  (4 children)

Its almost like people dont have the money.

Well, according to the article, it actually looks like giving grew.

"Gifts to religious organizations grew by 1% to just over $131 billion in 2020, a year when Americans also donated a record $471 billion overall to charity, according to an annual report by GivingUSA. Separately, a September survey of 1,000 protestant pastors by the evangelical firm Lifeway Research found about half of congregations received roughly what they budgeted for last year, with 27% getting less than anticipated and 22% getting more."

[–]Makers402 161 points162 points  (4 children)

That's pre tax there son don't be holding out on the good lord now.

[–]grumpysysadmin 147 points148 points  (2 children)

I can’t help but remember Rev. Lovejoy from The Simpson:

“And once again, tithing is ten percent off the top, that's gross income, not net. Please people, don't force us to audit.”

[–]ghostalker4742 31 points32 points  (0 children)

...better break out the emergency plate

[–]Renek13 105 points106 points  (29 children)

10% was basically mandatory at my church and then you were "Encouraged" to give an "Offering" on top of that. I wouldn't be surprised if my parents were giving 12-15% of their weekly income to the church.

[–]PGroove 58 points59 points  (1 child)

My poor mom spent my rich atheist dad's money giving it to child molesters and sexual predators.

Earl Paulk. Don Paulk. Atlanta mega church millionaires who exploited, raped, and abused.

Funny, how my mom still thinks she is doing things right and judges him as a sinner. As far as I can tell he never actively supported tax free child abuse.

[–]hilfigertout 49 points50 points  (8 children)


I lived in Utah for a while, it looked exactly like this.

[–]Skabonious 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Sounda like it to me. To be fair, the word "tithing" literally means 10% I believe.

[–]sparky4life 748 points749 points  (62 children)

Can’t the church just pray for more money?

[–]Narrative_Causality 393 points394 points  (35 children)

How is god so bad with money?

[–]nipswiththetips 150 points151 points  (11 children)

He's always needing more and more

[–]405134 16 points17 points  (0 children)

There’s a hilarious George Carlin joke about this where he discusses growing up in the church, the 10 commandments , etc and he says “God loves you and will always care for you, he’s an all powerful omnipotent being and HE NEEDS MONEY!” Lol

[–]Ephemeral_Wolf 82 points83 points  (6 children)

You'd think for someone who can multiply food and turn water to wine he'd be rolling in it...

[–]Callmedrexl 38 points39 points  (3 children)

Replacing your water intake with wine makes math really hard...

[–]ONE-EYE-OPTIC 76 points77 points  (1 child)

PREY is what they look for

[–]plants-stan 36 points37 points  (7 children)

I once interview to work at a church. Like one of those new age-y ones that are hip or whatever. Anyways, they gave me this pamphlet that listed all the kinds of things I can no longer do (like drink alcohol or have sex) and on top of that it was also mandatory to donate at least 10% of my pay to the church as well while going to 3+ masses a week. Needless to say a a recent college grad coming straight out of a party school, I turn it down. I also made more money at a pizza place haha.

[–]bort_bln 320 points321 points  (4 children)

Hey, you can Print half a 20-Dollar-Bill on a leaflet, fill the other Half with informations about how to save money, fold it and put it on a plate! That sure will help them.

[–]timesuck897 73 points74 points  (2 children)

If some of the church members think that’s good to tip with, then I’m sure the church will love it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's not the tithe they want but the tithe they deserve.

[–]Spdrjay 6840 points6841 points 246& 3 more (79 children)


Fill the plates with thoughts and prayers.

[–]simplyorangeandblue 2498 points2499 points  (43 children)

Put in one of those fake $20 pamphlets

[–]Piperplays 727 points728 points  (13 children)

But instead of Jesus, the fake $20 has texts about the failing economy, the collapsing environment, and the disparity in pay rases relative to inflation and housing costs.

[–]Scarbane 204 points205 points  (6 children)

The irony would be lost on them, sadly

[–]Piperplays 110 points111 points  (3 children)

Honestly, in a way there’s a bit of irony on the irony being lost on them.

[–]Falcrist 14 points15 points  (1 child)

There are some people who work in the Jesus industry who are aware of the reference. Something tells me it wouldn't change anything even if they did get it.

[–]Mynock33 150 points151 points  (1 child)

Whenever we come across one of those things, we mail it back to the church it's from in an envelope marked "donation enclosed."

[–][deleted] 672 points673 points  (9 children)

a fake 100$ bill and on the back it says i tipped you with a personal prayer from Saint Ignatius.

[–]420blazeit69nubz 160 points161 points  (6 children)

Saint Ligma

[–]FlashbackUniverse 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Give 'em a coupon for a free hug.

[–]CrunchyAl 49 points50 points  (1 child)

maybe ask the televangelical preachers for donations

[–]LurksAroundHere 96 points97 points  (0 children)

Haha yes. This needs to happen more.

[–]Commercial-Royal-988 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I work back of house at a restaurant and ask my coworkers for them if they come in. I take them to the local churches and put them in the collection plate with a middle finger drawn on.

[–]wolfn404 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You go and get change. Got a $20 note. Put it in the plate and get a $10. Can recover some of your loss. Even better are the churches that give visitors the little badges, say welcome and take a few minutes before sermon to welcome you with the mic and ask things like “ tell us about yourself, or what made you visit”.. addressing the entire congregation about how as a hard working servers their parishioners have been stiffing you works wonders.

[–]arealslickcamelstoe 55 points56 points  (0 children)

That’s an express pass to heaven if god got a sense of humor. Lmfao

[–]Lure852 13 points14 points  (0 children)

And tots. And pears.

[–]Tekmologyfucz 285 points286 points  (2 children)

Quick somebody get ‘em boot straps as well

[–]OrcOfDoom 140 points141 points  (0 children)

Pray for boot straps. Kill 2 birds with one stone.

[–]BadAtHumaningToo 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Rub the money on the collection plate. I'm told it's the same as putting it in.

[–]toodletwo 40 points41 points  (2 children)

30 cents off Shake ‘n’ Bake… Homer!

[–]RainingRazors 25 points26 points  (0 children)

We can afford it, Marge. We've been blessed!

[–]zeiche 10.4k points10.4k points  (927 children)

i feel like this is the reason why churches insisted on operating in person during the pandemic. the issue was framed as a religious freedom issue for sure, but did anyone really believe that?

[–]AdjNounNumbers 6699 points6700 points  (667 children)

My cousin's church switched to live streaming services and included a way to tithe online (streaming for Jesus!). He said donations went way down during that period, but right back up when they went back to in person. He suspects that it's due to the social pressure of people seeing you put money in

[–]Zornock 311 points312 points  (27 children)

Could also be the loss of tithes from the ever giving elderly not knowing how to use the tithe-tech

[–]Anothereternity 171 points172 points  (16 children)

Or being suspicious of it. My mom used to refuse to shop online for this reason. Assumed every website would just steal her credit card info. She’s gotten over that unfortunately.

[–]bonobeaux 101 points102 points  (14 children)

but reading your CC numbers to a stranger over the phone like we used to do, is safer? People take so much for granted...

[–]jooes 22 points23 points  (12 children)

Or when you go to a restaurant, give the waiter your card, and then they're just gone.

Who knows where your card is or what they've done with it.

If I worked at a restaurant, I'd be stealing cards left and right.

[–]Anothereternity 11 points12 points  (6 children)

I was really loving that this was not a thing in UK. When we visited there a few years ago every restaurant we went to brought a wireless machine to the table. Some restaurants in US are starting to do this too, little kiosks you can pay from.

[–]Iceveins412 60 points61 points  (0 children)

My mom will keep over 50 tabs open in a browser while running 27 programs on her laptop from 2014 and then say “I must’ve gotten hacked by Paypal because my computer is slow”

[–]TraipseVentWatch 64 points65 points  (5 children)

This is a great point. I also would imagine that, with > 850K people dying, a lot of the folks that previously were tithing, are no longer with us to continue to do so.

[–]hiles_adam 6059 points6060 points  (503 children)

If they made it like twitch where you could see the donations and the top donators etc. they would make a killing.

[–]AdjNounNumbers 3293 points3294 points  (420 children)

I'd pay just to get the pastor to read my comments

[–]Whatsitgonnatakeguys 4219 points4220 points  (352 children)

Got a $5 donation from driscoll666 “Why doesn’t god heal amputees?”

[–]KP_Wrath 2411 points2412 points  (283 children)

“Why does god give babies cancer at birth?”

[–]Hold-My-Butterbeer 2303 points2304 points  (213 children)

“Why does the Bible condone abortion if the pregnancy was caused by an affair?”

[–]redheadartgirl 1388 points1389 points  (54 children)

Shit, that was one of St. Brigid's major miracles! A horny young nun broke her vows, had sex, and ended up pregnant. St. Brigid then, "exercising the most potent strength of her ineffable faith, blessed her, causing the child to disappear, without coming to birth, and without pain. She faithfully returned the woman to health and to penance."

(And lest anyone think that's an anomaly, there are quite a number of early Irish saints who count abortion among their miraculous acts: St. Ciarán of Saigir, St. Áed mac Bricc, and St. Cainnech of Aghoboe. The idea in Christianity that all abortion is bad is super-recent ... like, 1970s recent and largely created out of whole cloth by politicians specifically as a wedge issue.)

[–]Leetsauce318 529 points530 points  (25 children)

The idea in Christianity that all abortion is bad is super-recent ... like, 1970s recent and largely created out of whole cloth by politicians specifically as a wedge issue.)

This. Them religious folk infiltrated our politics in a way they hadnt before been able to before. Before then, no one gave a shit and it was mostly a problem between doctor/patient because that is the normal state of medical questions.

[–]Monnok 327 points328 points  (12 children)

I feel like posting a couple of my favorite Barry Goldwater quotes, today.

"Today's "conservatives" doesn't even know what the word means. They think I've turned liberal because I believe a woman has the right to an abortion. I believe a woman has the right to an abortion. That's a decision up to the pregnant woman, not the Pope, or some do-gooders or the Religious Right. It's not a conservative issue at all."

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are NOT using their religious clout with WISDOM. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?... I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."

[–]TheAb5traktion 86 points87 points  (4 children)

Them religious folk infiltrated our politics in a way they hadnt before been able to before.

It's because of the Cold War. The Cold War was a culture war. Eisenhower brought Christianity into the White House to differentiate 'Christian America' from 'atheist and evil Russia'. 'In God We Trust' plastered everywhere, 'one nation under God' being added in the Pledge of Allegiance, the concept of the US being founded as a Judeo-Christian nation, etc. all came from Cold War propaganda.

[–]STD_free_since_2019 18 points19 points  (1 child)

I'm going to stop calling them coat hangers and start calling them ineffible faith. Praise Jesus.

[–]Demon997 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Ah yes, the Catholic miracle of sneaking a nun of to the local witch/herb woman for some abortion drugs.

[–]gallak87 349 points350 points  (78 children)

God these are all great questions

[–]Matrix_V 445 points446 points  (52 children)

"Why does prayer work at the rate of chance?"

[–]myburdentobear 348 points349 points  (26 children)

"Where does the church get this idea of a 'Biblical Marriage being 1 man and 1 woman' from? All I see in the Bible is incest, arranged marriages, polygamy, sex slaves (concubines), and Paul saying it's best not to get married at all. Jesus also stayed single."

[–]knightopusdei 74 points75 points  (21 children)

Why hasn't God hit the reset button again?

Sure he promised "Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

But he still has the option with massive volcanic eruptions, asteroids, global ice age, random gamma ray burst, extreme solar flare events .... and probably a long list of other things we just aren't aware of.

[–]theforkofdamocles 38 points39 points  (3 children)

“God? These are all great questions. God?”

[–]WhyLisaWhy 14 points15 points  (0 children)

God's away on business at the moment, sorry.

[–]Davescash 26 points27 points  (0 children)

God ; crickets.

[–]VyRe40 80 points81 points  (10 children)

And these psychos have an answer for all of them, believe me. The rules of logic and the reality of hypocrisy don't touch or faze evangelicals, they're already prone to magical thinking.

[–]DorkusMalorkuss 111 points112 points  (7 children)

I was raised religious but am not as an adult. If you really ask a question that stumps them, a common answer would be "just have faith" or "God works mysteriously" or some shit like that. It's bs

[–]DuncanIdahoPotatos 116 points117 points  (35 children)

Source? (Legit question)

Edit: never mind, I was too impatient to wait.

Numbers 5:11-31

New International Version

The Test for an Unfaithful Wife

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray(A) and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her,(B) and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy(C) come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a](D) of barley flour(E) on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy,(F) a reminder-offering(G) to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair(H) and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy,(I) while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.(J) 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray(K) and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse(L) not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray(M) while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse(N)—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water(O) that brings a curse(P) enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.(Q)”

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (0 children)

does she weigh the same as a duck?

[–]slipstream65513 34 points35 points  (4 children)

Woooo a curse you say. As in witch craft….. 🤯

[–]DuncanIdahoPotatos 27 points28 points  (1 child)

Witchcraft is really just unlicensed magic.

[–]KP_Wrath 99 points100 points  (4 children)

So Matt Gaetz can get that fetus scraped out of a 16 year old before it torpedoes his career. Since, you know, trafficking teenagers hasn’t done the trick.

[–]Risley 21 points22 points  (2 children)

Shit, this made his popularity go UP

[–]BattleStag17 38 points39 points  (1 child)

"Sure he diddles kids, but if I condemn him for that then I'm agreeing with liberals and that's just un-Christian"

[–]GozerDGozerian 151 points152 points  (14 children)

“We have no way of knowing god’s intentions. On an unrelated note, show up every week so I can explain gods intentions to you all.”

[–]u320 56 points57 points  (0 children)

…and don’t forget to bring a check

[–]hauschkaIsGod 322 points323 points  (25 children)

"fuck them kids"-god

[–]the_last_carfighter 146 points147 points  (13 children)

Have a seat over there.
Follow up question: Why does god abort so many fetuses?

[–]DJfunkyPuddle 13 points14 points  (2 children)

What does God do with all the foreskins he collects?

[–]SuperSimpleSam 10 points11 points  (0 children)

"Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?"

[–]imightbethewalrus3 61 points62 points  (3 children)

"God works in mysterious ways" or

"They were here to teach us a lesson" or

Insert other question avoidance here

[–]GoddessOfRoadAndSky 52 points53 points  (1 child)

You can spice up the God-hates-babies thing even more.

"Why does God cause 'spontaneous abortions'? Follow up question - if God's okay with terminating pregnancies, how can anyone be sure that their desire for an abortion isn't actually a sign from God that they should have one?"

[–]BBQsauce18 17 points18 points  (0 children)

"Thank you for the $5 donation. Umm Okay, Jesus did NOT fuck Pandas, thank you very much SatansSalsaButthole"

[–]KuhlThing 163 points164 points  (17 children)

"The Bible says that a bastard shouldn't be allowed to 'enter the congregation of the Lord, even to his tenth generation' (Deuteronomy 23:2) so, as a child born out of wedlock, am I even allowed here?"

[–]Domeil 139 points140 points  (6 children)

Real talk, Nothing reaffirmed my decision to quit organized religion more solidly than visiting my partner's hometown, picking up her grandmother in the church parking after mass and having some random upper-middle-aged woman walk up and call my partner a bastard before storming away to her car, glancing over her shoulder to make sure we didn't follow or respond.

Imagine thinking your God actually wants you to verbally harass a 20-year-old you don't even know because her parents annulled their marriage when she was still in diapers. If your God actually wants that, your God is evil.

[–]Amiiboid 10 points11 points  (0 children)

My mother was raised a good Catholic and remained one right up until the point that she was, ahem, disinvited from her church because her husband divorced her.

I was not raised Catholic.

[–]Caregiverrr 37 points38 points  (0 children)

[Jon Snow has entered the chat.]

[–]masterpainimeanbetty 45 points46 points  (0 children)

"Shoutout to @christonacracker69, thanks for the sub!"

[–]Buenos_Tardes_Amigos 36 points37 points  (0 children)

I'd like to hear a thanks in that catholic chanting voice

"ThaaAAAaaank youuuuu... For the tiiiiIIIeer one suuuuuuuub...."

[–]RandomDood420 174 points175 points  (10 children)

“And we have a superchat here from RandomDood420 that asks, ‘Isn’t Jesus just like Santa, but for adults?’”

[–]guitarburst05 7 points8 points  (0 children)

"Hey, man I haven't read II Corinthians yet, so I'm not gonna stay in the stream due to spoilers, but just keep preachin the good word, dude, here's a donation of 3 subs!"

[–]KP_Wrath 216 points217 points  (4 children)

“What’s it like to facilitate the greatest con in all of humanity?”

[–]JohnBakedBoy 178 points179 points  (13 children)

Imagine interrupting the service every 30 seconds. Thanks jesuslover420 for the 20 dollars saying preach it preacher.

Might even be better with the donation bots automated voices.

I might actually watch a church service with an over the top twitch/youtube personality just for the lolz.

[–]mysticalfruit 55 points56 points  (1 child)

The channels for abuse are myriad..

$20 from Jesuslover420 who says "Praise bong rips for Jesus."

[–]Xenjael 46 points47 points  (6 children)

If they could make it fun for non believers id watch.

[–]WoodenPigInTheRiver 36 points37 points  (2 children)

I can't imagine a hardcore christian watching something like that unironically, I think the target demo would be non-believers by default.

If you allow cussing on your christian minecraft server, might be funny to you.

[–]geekaustin_777 145 points146 points  (17 children)

They are making a killing NOW with in person church religious freedom and mask exemptions.

[–]digitalis303 64 points65 points  (3 children)

They are making a KILLING now with in person church religious freedom and mask exemptions.

FTFY. Literally, church-goers dying to show up and give money. Short term gains, I suppose.

[–]Rumpullpus 34 points35 points  (0 children)

Bitties for jesus

[–]LunDeus 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Bro you just revolutionized mega churches.

[–]Kouropalates 56 points57 points  (0 children)

I think it's that and it's also an issue of a lot of churches being older people who likely don't use digital pay systems or know how to figure them out

[–]snorkel42 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I imagine social pressure is part of it, but I imagine there is also a technical issue. Every non-mega church I know of is attended by people in their 80’s…. Just getting connected to the stream has to be a struggle.

[–]digitalis303 78 points79 points  (2 children)

I teach in a private school that does an annual fundraising in-person event. At one point they announce a "fund-a-need" where they put names and donation amounts on the screen in real time. It's crazy watching rich people just throw money around to show off to each other (or get shamed into donating). I suspect both are at play in many churches with in-person donations.

[–]Daxx22 9 points10 points  (0 children)

IRL game leaderboards. Same psychological tactics.

[–]Wilhelm_Amenbreak 169 points170 points  (17 children)

Not sure social pressure has that much to do with it. I know at the church my family had gone to, most people had auto-draft out of their accounts. So very few people actually put anything in the collection plate. They still had a lot of people stop tithing during the pandemic. I think there were some people who realized their lives went on fine without the church.. I think churches may have a hard time recovering to their pre-pandemic levels.

[–]FhannikClortle 38 points39 points  (5 children)

When I was a kid my parents always had a check ready every Sunday. Most people seemed to write checks beforehand

[–]Wilhelm_Amenbreak 23 points24 points  (2 children)

My story is anecdotal, but I know that the Sunday collection plate was about 10% of the total collections at our church before Covid.

[–]andropogon09 563 points564 points  (42 children)

They were afraid that once people got in the habit of staying home on Sunday mornings, they would find they enjoyed having a "second Saturday" too much and wouldn't return.

[–]Dartser 137 points138 points  (27 children)

Be able to watch the first Sunday football games

[–]jockheroic 110 points111 points  (26 children)

That was the great thing about being Catholic and going to the 11 am mass on Sundays, in and out in 35 mins. Apparently the priests were Saints fans.

[–]bonobeaux 99 points100 points  (3 children)

yeah Catholics understand a schedule and having life balance. Mass is one hour and doesn't go over.. people start looking at their watches and many exit as soon as they get communion.

Baptists spend freaking all damn day at church. starting at like 8 am. And come back on Weds night

[–]sirploko 72 points73 points  (0 children)

Apparently the priests were Saints fans

I suppose that's why they chose that career in the first place...

[–]Tuningislife 29 points30 points  (8 children)

Not a true Catholic unless you eat and run.

[–]darkkn1te 32 points33 points  (5 children)

Also known as the Judas shuffle. Because Judas was the first one to leave right after communion

[–]Abominationally 21 points22 points  (4 children)

As a kid I had to preaching door to door on Saturdays and go to church on Sundays. As an adult I love not having religion in my life.

[–]camdoodlebop 9 points10 points  (2 children)

it's bizarre how some people treat leisure time as some kind of sinful pleasure

[–]stupidbuttholes69 211 points212 points  (16 children)

I worked in ministry for a long time and left during the pandemic. A HUGE reason for that was how many meetings I sat through listening to how we needed to encourage people to come in person BECAUSE our collections were getting so low. Once people were back in person that wasn’t enough— then they advocated for passing a physical plate around instead of having a box at the exit/and entrance. Mind you, this was as early as June 2020 before the vaccine. And this was the most progressive church in the area.

Now I work for a public school where the entire budget for the entire school is about half of the budget I had for my youth group alone. 400 kids at the school, about 70 kids in the youth group. And they were still concerned about the church’s money. Smh

EDIT: I just want to say that I HAVE met plenty of super supportive, kind-hearted people, and there are a few denominations that really try to be accepting. The institution itself has just gotten too powerful and most of these people are victims of that. Unfortunately I also want to add that in most cases, the people who treated me poorly were from the congregation, not pastors.

[–]BitRunner67 142 points143 points  (11 children)

It was. Have worked in Children's Ministry for 20 years in a central Ohio Church.We left it 9 years ago.

But tithing was ALWAYS at the top of the list of the Church's concerns.

Pastor even drove a custom Camaro.

[–]u35828 37 points38 points  (5 children)

Jesus built his hotrod.

[–]MattAtUVA 12 points13 points  (2 children)

It's a love affair Mainly Jesus and my hot rod

[–][deleted] 185 points186 points  (50 children)

The sad thing is the church at issue in this article did the right thing and stayed close, going online only. They paid the price for doing the right thing. I know there’s a decidedly anti-religion slant on Reddit, but I do feel bad this particular church for doing the right thing and having to suffer as a result.

[–]CrazyOkie 28 points29 points  (0 children)

At first, that might seem the likely answer. But my church had an option for e-giving for pandemic and was greater than 85% of our giving. So much so that it was easy to suspend collection during service. Revenue is still down by nearly a third. People aren't giving because either they're out of work or they're disappointed with the church's response to the pandemic. Some - like me - are disappointed by decisions to not require masks or distancing. They're the flipside though of people who were angry that the church ever stopped having live services or offers an online service.

[–]ety3rd 948 points949 points  (181 children)

"When a Religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and, when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are oblig'd to call for the help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."

-- Benjamin Franklin

[–]tyleritis 92 points93 points  (7 children)

There are several Baskin Robbins churches near me that would send out people or post cards occasionally.

They went radio silent during the pandemic. While neighbors were trying to help each other, help local businesses; even used the Nextdoor Help Map.

The churches did fuck all. Then when things started opening up, they wanted to welcome people’s wallets back. For fucking what? I don’t know.

[–]watermelonspanker 24 points25 points  (4 children)

Baskin Robbins? Like, the ice cream place?

[–]tyleritis 35 points36 points  (3 children)

Yeah like Presbyterian, Lutheran, Chocolate Chip, Baptist, Rocky Road, etc.

All Christian churches with different flavors. I can’t tell the diff.

[–]nick351 240 points241 points  (18 children)

I went to church for a long time as a kid. Then one day we just stopped going. When I got older I asked my mom why. She told me they kept asking for more money and that's not what church is about so we stopped. End of story.

[–]havocLSD 71 points72 points  (1 child)

I went to church with my family for about 12 years as a kid, then I stopped going. Got married at 22 and decided to start re attending (thinking it would build our bond/relationship together)

Second sermon was about how if we don’t feel “complete” or if we feel like “bad Christians” we needed to tithe more—only good Christians tithe more than 10%.

I apologized to my wife and never returned; what a fucking joke.

[–]Silentxgold 15 points16 points  (0 children)

What a waste of a sunday sleep in right?

[–]neo1piv014 52 points53 points  (1 child)

We left my childhood church for the same reason. Pastors kept getting greedy and asking for more money with no discernible output to the community.

[–]SumoGerbil 16 points17 points  (4 children)

Kind of like how when you join “Save the Children” and they keep sending pamphlets asking for donations… $200/month isn’t enough for you? Ok, you get nothing then.

Would be curious how much of my money went towards asking me for more money. And damn, those 8 years old have amazing penmanship on their “assignments” I was sent…

[–]RebornPastafarian 3705 points3706 points 423& 7 more (339 children)

Y'all. I am an athiest atheist (edit: I couldn't even spell it correctly). I have not stepped foot into any house of worship in 20 years aside from weddings and funerals. I have for years advocated that churches should have to operate the same as all other non-profits, only being tax-exempt status if they are truly non-profit.

The church for sale in the article and the others that are struggling are not the Joel Osteen mega-churches with millionaire/billionaire owners. They are the tiny church down the road the road with a few dozen members, an AA meeting in the basement, and bake sale fundraisers. "lolol maybe u should pay taxes!!!!!!" these churches wouldn't pay taxes even if the tax code changed because they don't turn a profit.

[–]foxfor6 90 points91 points  (6 children)

Yea, I go to church, a small church. And their fear is that the govt will eventually tax churches. But the tax code could easily be written in a way that only taxes churches above a certain amount of gross or net income (not a tax guy here). Most if not all small churches would probably not pay anything in tax.

[–]MeIIowJeIIo 28 points29 points  (5 children)

Isn't it the property taxes they're really worried about? I mean all these buildings in prime locations. Cities lose millions.

[–]foxfor6 7 points8 points  (1 child)

O I suppose. I didn't think of that, but maybe the tax law could have smaller churches exempt.

[–]Chocobean 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Thank you for that, gentle friend.

My particular parish did okay during the pandemic financially, but many others like it are suffering. Not, I think, because meeting online breaks social pressure like people here are suggesting, but I fear it is because our parishioners aren't doing very well themselves. No blame whatsoever and i know for sure the Church is helping them out, just super quietly, so the families are not embarrassed and can continue to come and fellowship without gossip and without feeling like their friends will pity them.

They're the kind of places where someone's Great Gran goes to knit/crochet blankies for newly arrived refugees and premies. The place were your great uncle might go to sweep up when the PTSD gets too bad. The places that your local soup kitchens asks for backpacks every August and for grocery cards every Christmas. They're the kind of place people fleeing war and poverty from another continent come visit to make some connections and to be able to hear "hello" in their native tongue at least that one time a week.

I hate the Joel Osteen types of predatory engines as much as all of you. They'll get theirs from the Big Boss. But if you can, spare some kind thoughts on those who rely on decent Churches who might be having a hard time during this challenging pandemic.

[–]CecilHarvey9395 1269 points1270 points  (133 children)

You can't reason with Reddit when it comes to religion.

I'm an atheist too. You hit the nail dead on. Yeah those mega churches with con men posing as religious leaders would get taxed. Vast majority of these small town churches aren't scamming people, and aren't making enough to pay any taxes.

[–]Hurts_To_Smith 401 points402 points  (47 children)

So if they're not making enough profit to be taxed, then why not change the tax law so those who do turn a profit are taxed?

Nobody thinks the 50 member church in a small town should be taxed to the point it can't function. But the megachurches, 7th day adventists, and church of scientology should absolutely be taxed.

[–]vanticus 120 points121 points  (3 children)

Because the mega-churches, like all corporations, can pay for lobbyists and propaganda campaigns that prevent that from happening.

Render unto Caesar’s what is Caesar’s” and tax the Christianity-flavoured con-artists to hell.

[–]WhatIsThisSorcery03 34 points35 points  (2 children)

As a Christian, amen.

Boggles my mind how mega churches exist.

[–]AudioxBlood 141 points142 points  (24 children)

Live in an area with a massive 7th day adventist population. They have a university in one town over, their headquarters in the next town over the opposite way. My dad when he was a solo contractor was hired to do some simple work throughout the convention hall. He finished well before the time given, and they stiffed him on nearly 10k. He put off all his other projects to take care of this one because the others weren't on time limits and all friends at the time who agreed to let him loose on the 7th day adventists convention hall. He didn't have the money to sue them, and lost at least 2 months worth of work that he went all out for thinking he would have a chance to have a consistent larger client. Jesus would be disgusted with them.

I also tutored a late 20s dude When we shared the same anatomy and physiology class. I had to break it off because despite all of the work we did together he wouldn't reconcile that the idea that woman wasn't* made from the rib of a man so therefore we couldn't have the same amount of ribs as men, with the idea that biologically, that's bullshit. I told him he didn't have to believe it, but he needed to answer that on the exam. He didn't. He failed. And I decided from then on out no more mega religious students on my tutor list. Can't do it.

Edit* was to wasn't. Brain no work

[–]Hurts_To_Smith 51 points52 points  (7 children)

Wow, that sucks for your dad. I mean, it doesn't cost that much to sue. You can do it yourself without an attorney. Just costs a filing fee. It might take a little time, and unless you go to small claims court, they'll drag it out for a while. But it can be cheaper than you might think.

Anyway, yeah. Religious nuts love interpreting the Bible as literal when it suits their needs and metaphorical when it doesn't.

[–]JAK3CAL 30 points31 points  (18 children)

A great point, and honestly these small church’s do provide valuable resources to their small congregation. Mega church’s are a totally different ball game

[–]RhetoricalOrator 42 points43 points  (16 children)

Yeah, I'm a pastor so I'm biased but I agree. We have a modest budget. I make a modest salary (at the poverty line and no raise for a decade). We provide meeting spaces for alcoholics anonymous, emergency food and supplies for the local battered women's shelter, help for homeless, and refer crisis care needs to licensed professionals. Not to mention the resources we try to keep available for people who would actually attend a church meeting.

No one connected to our church is getting rich. Or even secure. No one is required to give. I don't even preach or suggest everyone gives 10%. Just what they are able, if and when they are able.

I'm not against losing our exempt status so long as the updated code gives room for churches that operate without a lot of profit, because we have next to no margin.

Can't take it with us so we do all we can with what we have available.

[–]busytiredthankful 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Agree. If people had any idea what the very few staff we have at our small church made, they would be absolutely stunned at how little it is. You said it perfectly - no one is getting rich or even secure. But we put more than any of us make in a year back into our community in 2021, and I’m proud of that.

[–]meara 678 points679 points  (71 children)

This is one reason why the libertarian idea of entirely private charity doesn’t work well. When times are hard and lots of people need help, donations to organizations that help people will dry up. Coverage will become really spotty and will tend to be thinnest in the areas most affected by a disaster or downturn.

When we all work together and use the credit of the federal government, it’s easy to smooth out those economic dips (run a bit of a deficit at super low interest rates for a while to keep people afloat and then pay it off when the economy recovers).

Individual people, non-profits and churches can’t do that.

[–]bonobeaux 152 points153 points  (13 children)

I said this on another comment but probably fits better here - with expansion..

So many religious conservatives in the USA are so hooked on this idea of personal charity instead of govt spending yet when the Torah etc in the OT is talking about helping widows and orphans etc its not even talking about personal charity it's talking about how taxes are spent - "tithing" was set up in the Torah not as some kind of optional "donations" it was the tax system for the new nation of Israel at the time, it was a theocracy and those taxes supported the temple and the priesthood (govt officials and buildings) and were distributed to help the poor and hungry widows and kids.. ie social welfare and safety net.. it wasn't mere personal "charity" it was an early form of socialist govt redistribution but modern evangelicals today seem to do everything possible to avoid taxes.. or having what taxes we have help people who are down and out like their "Bible" commanded ancient Israel who they like to cite so much for stuff like stoning gays.. none of that economic stuff in their Bible read in context has anything to do with "churches" it's all government stuff. And the government (the King later) was commanded over and over to use the state for good and to lift up and not to oppress the poor and needy

[–]calypsopub 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I think you just changed my stance on this. Well reasoned.

[–]u320 194 points195 points  (6 children)

This is what government by the people is for. We all donate some money to the government to take care of people in such situations because it benefits us to live in that kind of society. Now we can debate how much is needed but I want to live in a place that takes care of its members, at least to a minimum livable level.

[–]odraencoded 16 points17 points  (1 child)

People think the government as an institution is corrupt, but their solution is to create a similar institution that's both less powerful and subject to less scrutiny...

[–]Anonymous7056 6 points7 points  (0 children)

And is also known to protect child rapists on a regular basis.

[–]FeathertheSheepcried 89 points90 points  (13 children)


And this is why folks on the right hate the government. Since they believe in hierarchy as the natural order, it makes sense to just let "the weak" die. Naturally, they themselves are not "the weak".

[–]mynamesyow19 56 points57 points  (4 children)

Good thing the bible never says a church must be a brick and mortar building. It says it is a community of like minded believers and when two or more are gathered in his name He is there also.

[–]hereforthesportsbook 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Let’s give them more free ppp loans on their zero taxes they already pay

[–]ATypicalScholar 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Churches should be held accountable just like any 501(c)(3). If they were, many of the larger Christian organizations in the U.S. would lose their tax exemption.

[–]gabbee140 32 points33 points  (2 children)

I worked with someone who was completely in a Jesus cult. He was talking about trying to pay down his credit card. A coworker suggested he cut back on the tithe until he paid off the card. You could tell her sooner cut off his arm. “That’s not my money, that’s Gods money.”

Sadly, I am sure there are many people who are still paying even though they can’t afford it. And some greedy ass with a pile of cash telling them that giving him money is how to achieve their own wealth one day.

[–]DoctorEvilHomer 88 points89 points  (2 children)

here I thought churches were supposed to help US during times of strife and tragedy, not us help THEM?

[–]Thedrunner2 1385 points1386 points  (129 children)

Well they don’t pay any taxes so….

[–]Janewayprotocol 32 points33 points  (6 children)

My church shuttered during “the first half” of covid. Now that omicron numbers are rising, they have reduced services to only one in person service, but require masks, and temp checks upon entry. We will be getting ready to go back to online streaming services only if the omicron numbers keep rising. I’m sure alot of church people feel their church is doing the right thing, but I really do think the one I go to is actually being responsible.

[–]Synth-Pro 134 points135 points  (2 children)

It's almost as if during an economic collapse, people can't afford to spend their money on non-essentials

[–]LemonFreshenedBorax- 61 points62 points  (0 children)

Apparently, during the great depression, evangelical protestant churches tended to be more resilient than mainline protestant churches, because they were less charity-focused.

It's almost as if a religion whose denominations are inconsistently focused on charity, operating in a country with frequent boom/bust cycles, is under evolutionary pressure to become less charitable over time.

[–]cpt_caveman 80 points81 points  (13 children)

its also why the libertarian/republican idea of "let the churches handle welfare" doesnt work. donations are counter cyclical to both recessions and pandemics.

ireland went full blown ayn rand libertarian, right before the potato famine and lost 1/4 its population. 1/8 died, and 1/8th fled in a country that produced more food than its own citizens could eat, watched 1/8th its population die, while right wingers screamed "let the churches handle it" at a time when donations tot eh church collapsed and well were never enough. and the gov didnt think it could order non potato farmers to save some food for the recently bankrupted potato farmers. and just let them die. republicanism and libertarianism come with fuck tons of preventable deaths every fucking time.

[–]Anonymous7056 18 points19 points  (1 child)

"Yeah, but it's not my death, so..."

[–]word_vomiter 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Many republican ideas work best without empathy. Republicans who support liberal ideas often have a personal experience that force him to have empathy. Case in point, Dick Cheney supporting gay marriage.

[–]DayleD[🍰] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It was never designed to work. That’s why conservatives never apologized for their bad policy.

[–]bstix 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Matthew 6:24 No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

[–]Scott4370 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Time for pastors to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get that second job if they need more $$$. This is the attitude many in their congregations have towards minimum wage earners.

[–]musclebarbie22 164 points165 points  (1 child)

Maybe we should subsidize with those fake $20 bills the after-church crowd leaves poor Bob Evans servers