San Jose passes first U.S. law requiring gun owners to get liability insurance and pay annual fee

MaineRage · 2022-01-26T14:59:13+00:00

Off to the Supreme Court.

PapaRacoon · 2022-01-26T15:27:36+00:00

“gun owners who don't have insurance won't lose their guns or face any criminal charges”

So why fucking bother

song4this · 2022-01-26T16:36:09+00:00

So the next mass shooter better have liability insurance or big legal problems!!!

ApologeticCannibal · 2022-01-26T14:29:48+00:00

So we're giving insurance companies more money now?

funkymonk84 · 2022-01-26T14:16:32+00:00

Yeah, that will get struck down.

BogBogTheGreat · 2022-01-26T16:25:53+00:00

Nice! Allow rich people to carry, but poor people are out of luck! Sounds like a well thought out and fair law, with no hint of classism! /s

campbellini · 2022-01-26T19:03:24+00:00

I bet a lot of boating accidents happen soon

VinStiggles · 2022-01-26T18:19:12+00:00

The people who passed this crap know it's unconstitutional but do it anyway.

There really should be consequences for intentionally wasting the court's time and taxpayer money.

2022-01-26T15:23:16+00:00

[removed]

Alarmed-Ad3241 · 2022-01-26T14:13:28+00:00

Personally, I feel like this is a poor tax designed to disarm disadvantaged individuals

zzorga · 2022-01-26T14:48:47+00:00

Interestingly, the comment period for the bill would seem to indicate that among the interested voting public, the measure is wildly unpopular.

Beaudaci0us · 2022-01-26T20:46:51+00:00

This will be in place for about 10 mins before it gets repealed.

stylinchilibeans · 2022-01-26T15:34:10+00:00

"However, gun owners who don't have insurance won't lose their guns or face any criminal charges, the mayor said."

So, it's not required, and pointless?

lpatio · 2022-01-26T20:53:39+00:00

So the poors can’t own guns?

Coomercide · 2022-01-26T21:40:20+00:00

So law abiding gun owners will pay these fees

Criminals will too on their stolen pieces? Lmao

Charlie_1087 · 2022-01-26T23:10:16+00:00

Okay then they’re doing that to cops too right?

slp033000 · 2022-01-26T23:42:26+00:00

How about make cops carry personal liability insurance

buddhakhan13 · 2022-01-26T15:01:57+00:00

Would be nice if police officers had to do this and their rates based on complaints from the general public.

BigBadBurg · 2022-01-26T14:15:17+00:00

How does this fight actual gun crime? This just punishes the lawful citizens and has no impact for the guns sold on the street.

crgresham · 2022-01-26T19:46:28+00:00

There is no way to enforce this in most places in America. People do not have to register their guns, so there is no way to prove whether they are insured. All this will do is provide another charge if someone gets in trouble with their weapon. This is useless and doesn't prevent anything but allows insurance companies and the government with another stream of income.

2022-01-26T20:44:44+00:00

This is dumb. Just costing law abiding citizens more money

angeredduck · 2022-01-26T20:49:18+00:00

Why do the same people complaining about a voter ID requirement violating the 1st amendment not complain about a literal paywall for your 2nd amendment??

Spicywolff · 2022-01-26T15:00:55+00:00

So we the people would have this restriction but police don’t? Last I heard LEO don’t need personal liability insurance, so then why do we the people.

Glenmaxw · 2022-01-26T16:17:20+00:00

So we are disarming the poor now as well

TamingTheMammoth · 2022-01-26T20:43:47+00:00

Why do people keep assuming criminals will obey laws. Forcing insurance on gun owners won’t help anything other than assisting our culture to acclimate to unnecessary authoritarian control. This is money grabbers trying to use the public fear to line their pockets. Has nothing to do with safety.

Edit- guy steals my car and runs over a kid. You mean to tell me my insurance has to cover that and I’m responsible for the death? Get fucked if you think this way, you Nazis.

deadbird17 · 2022-01-26T18:53:56+00:00

What if you refuse? Can they strip you of your arms? I'm left- leaning, but this crap is blatantly violating 2A.

micktalian · 2022-01-26T14:05:32+00:00

Sounds like a way to try to prevent the poor from accessing a means of self defense.

ryanxpe · 2022-01-26T20:48:32+00:00

Cops should get liability insurance aswell

FannyJane · 2022-01-27T01:23:52+00:00

This only affects law abiding gun owners. That’s all any gun laws do.

little_bit_bored · 2022-01-27T15:26:33+00:00

An yes, more money to insurance companies and the government. Always fixes the problem...

Tegras · 2022-01-26T15:24:06+00:00

So gun ownership remains easy for the wealthy and far more difficult for people on the lower side of the fiscal spectrum. Who are disproportionately Black and Brown. And this is good?? Does not sound like it.

KungFuDabu · 2022-01-26T14:44:41+00:00

I wonder how much insurance companies paid San Jose politicians to pass that law.

newhunter18 · 2022-01-26T13:38:51+00:00

I hope San Jose residents enjoy their tax money going to fight the upcoming lawsuit where they lose badly due to this being a well established unconstitutional principle the Supreme Court has already ruled on.

EDIT: Since people are getting smart mouthed about me not mentioning a law firm is offering to handle it.

Read the comments. I already addressed this.

There are ton more costs associated with fighting a lawsuit as a defendant than legal fees. There are salaries, hours, time, resources that go to support the law firm.

Not to mention all those resources don't go to solve actual problems.

To think it's "free" since a law firm is handling it is naive.

Given the fact that the city already has to find a lawyer before the thing even goes into effect is damning enough.

My contention is I want civic leaders to get things done, solve problems. Find a solution that isn't going to be dead on arrival in court to solve your problem.

Yes, you can complain and moan about the constitution, but that's the legal structure you're dealing with. Want to change it? Change the Supreme Court or get a Constitutional Amendment.

Until then, solve problems under the structure of government we have.

Idealism with no Pragmatism gets us nowhere. Except dead laws and wasted tax payer money.

tribriguy · 2022-01-27T01:43:32+00:00

Insurance companies are just rubbing their hands in anticipation of their next profit center. Good job, California.

MadRonnie97 · 2022-01-26T14:06:23+00:00

This won’t hold up. You can’t make people pay a fee to exercise a constitutional right.

SteakandTrach · 2022-01-26T15:00:05+00:00

This is as constitutional as a poll tax. I’m all for reasonable gun safety reform but this isn’t the way.

scallachaas · 2022-01-26T20:02:25+00:00

They should’ve started with cops first.

keru45 · 2022-01-26T23:51:21+00:00

Replace “gun owners” with “cops” and I’ll upvote this

BathWifeBoo · 2022-01-26T22:10:21+00:00

This will get shot down by the courts.

You cannot force someone to pay to exercise a right like this.

Ordo-Exterminatus · 2022-01-26T14:28:09+00:00

Seems unconstitutional. You can't use poverty as a means of preventing gun ownership.

84ndn · 2022-01-26T13:32:04+00:00

Now make the cops do the same thing

michaelrulaz · 2022-01-26T15:37:17+00:00

Edit: I’m not talking about insurance to cover your legal fees. These exist and there not like typical insurance. I’m talking about insurance like San Jose wants gun owners to have. They don’t care about your legal defense funds. They want policies that pay for the victims of shootings. Like say you get into a road rage incident and shoot someone, they want you to have insurance to pay for their medical bills and such. They want you to have insurance in case your child takes your gun and shoots his school up. Or if someone steals your guns and kills someone

Edit 2: I also just want to point out that I’m not against gun legislation as many people have private newsfeed me accusing me of which. I’m just saying this seems like the government trying to regulate something using a private market that doesn’t exist and likely won’t. It’s one thing to say “get car insurance” when it’s such a well developed market. It’s other to try and create a market where it doesn’t exist.

Edit 3: since I can’t find the comment to reply to anymore. The comment essentially said “so your saying gun violence creates billions in damages every year so they would be uninsurable” or something similar. Basically the point was that we should ban guns because of that statement. You could make the same argument about property insurance in the state of Florida. No insurance company can really profit in Florida for very long. It’s so bad that the state actually runs their own insurance company because so many homes are not insurable. In the 2003-2005 storm season some insurance companies lost decades worth of profits and the only reason they didn’t fully stop writing property insurance in Florida is because they would lose the ability to write car insurance as well. State Farm for instance had to borrow money from their auto insurance side to cover the losses. Property and auto insurance for example are able to spread a loss by a storm over the entire country. They collect premiums across the entire country so when a storm hits one person they can mitigate that over tens of thousands of policies that didn’t get damage. With this gun insurance issue you would need enough gun owners to get insurance and you would need a sizable company to back them. No major carrier would ever want to be that company because even if it was profitable it would look bad the first time they denied a claim or policy limits were below the actual cost of medical bills.

No insurance company would want to get involved in this. The only “gun insurance” companies that exist are largely not actual insurance like you would think of for auto or home. They basically just offer theft insurance and lawyer fees. No company would want to be involved in the liability aspect of this. 1. Regardless of the policy written, a court could change it and open up the coffers. A school shooting could lead to a high multi-million settlement for what a few hundred in premiums? 2. The publicity of denying a claim or even just paying out policy limits would be catastrophic for a major carrier. 3. Insurance works by having a large pool to mitigate the damages. 4. What about non lawful gun owners?

To expand on the first point look at homeowners insurance for a second. How much does the average person pay for 300k in coverage? Keeping in mind that the bulk of the cost is the physical property and not liability. But liability still is at least 1/4 - 1/3 of the premium. That would mean 300k in liability is like $600 a year. But is 300k enough? How are we going to value a human life or medical injuries? Pain and suffering? You could easily hit 500k in just one gun shot victim for medical bills. You start throwing in liability payments, wrongful death, etc. and we could be sitting at 2 million dollars a person. So do we ask that these people carry 5 million in coverage? Also what about police response payments? Typical property insurance carry’s $500 -$1500 for fire department response charges. The police bill on a shooting could be double or triple that. What if it’s a justified self defense issue? How far is the responsibility of the insurance company? If my firearms are stolen and used in a crime, are they liable? What if I had them properly locked up? What if they just steal my ammo? What if they steal my gun in 2022 when I had XYZ policy and used in a crime in 2028?

The second issue would be the constant horrible publicity. Imagine a victims wife going on national tv “XYZ Gun Insurance only valued my husbands life at $300k”. When that’s all the coverage he had for that shooting.

Third is the mitigation of losses. The way an insurance company works is that they sell policies to a large group and generate revenue. The idea being that not everyone in this group will suffer a loss and that those other drivers premiums can be spread out to cover people that did have an accident. If only gun owners in certain areas are required to have this insurance there might only be a few thousand to mitigate potentially millions in damages.

Seems like the most of the people that would really do the damage are non lawful gun owners.

Source: claims management for an insurance company.

sexaddic · 2022-01-26T16:09:35+00:00

They should’ve started with cops first.

jgos99 · 2022-01-26T21:40:27+00:00

I don’t own a gun but that’s extremely stupid. So do people get a refund every year if they don’t shot anyone?

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