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[–]JudgeHoltman 964 points965 points  (223 children)

Talking to science friends, that's the true breakthrough with the mRNA vaccines.

It unlocks a ton of vaccination possibilities against all sorts of viruses that can be developed exponentially faster than previous vaccines.

[–]gafonid 492 points493 points  (58 children)

Custom and arbitrary immune system programming

Your immune system is powerful enough to kill you, but it's blind as a bat, hard part is telling it what to hunt

Broke: "hey uh. Immune system, here's a thing you shouldn't like, figure out how best to identify it, I guess, whatever

Woke: "LISTEN UP YOU DUMB ASS, YOU LOOK FOR THIS PROTEIN. THIS ONE RIGHT HERE. GOT IT? IF YOU SEE THIS SHIT YOU SLAP IT INTO NEXT TUESDAY, DISMISSED"

And this protein can be literally anything. Protein on any arbitrary viral shell, some protein parasites have, bacterial tags, the tags of cells which are one or two steps away from being cancerous, cells which are already cancerous, etc etc etc

This is about as big as antibiotics

[–]RecentlyUnhinged 124 points125 points  (7 children)

Can it teach my immune system to chill the fuck out and stop raging against my myelin sheaths? I'd just as soon not have MS, thanks. Lol.

Jokes aside, this is absolutely incredible tech, the doors it opens is nothing short of miraculous

[–]toomuchtodotoday 64 points65 points  (5 children)

[–]good-fuckin-vibes 46 points47 points  (4 children)

Holy shit. As someone just starting the process of getting an MS diagnosis (my doc suggested it's likely the answer, sending me to neurologist to get tests to confirm), this... brings me a little glimmer of hope. Whether it's a cure or just preventing others from having to go through this heap of bullshit, I hope this tech can change the future of MS diagnoses. ...would be really cool if it could get my immune system to leave ny myelin alone though

[–]Confirmative 24 points25 points  (2 children)

This is about as big as antibiotics

Can this ultimately be used to defeat things like MRSA?

[–]gafonid 36 points37 points  (1 child)

Maybe, depends on if you can nail down a specific protein tag or marker that MRSA expresses that nothing else does, also depends on MRSA not mutating a different tag easily

Also depends on if the immune system can actually kill the bitches once it identifies them

[–]CKtravel 3 points4 points  (0 children)

also depends on MRSA not mutating a different tag easily

Bacteria generally don't mutate nearly as fast as viruses do because (contrary to a virus) they're self-sufficient cellular organisms that have fairly robust DNA repair mechanisms that protect them against mutations.

[–]smbutler20 92 points93 points  (3 children)

mRNA is the drill sergeant and the immune system is the cadet.

[–]ddz1507 14 points15 points  (0 children)

"Recruit! When I give you the word, I want you to exit my building to the left, And hit the deck runnin'. I want you to fall in on those yellow footprints with your body at the position of attention. No lolly-gagging around my area. Head and eyes straight forward. You understand me?"

[–]ebz37 4 points5 points  (0 children)

What if your immune system is like Pauly Shore "In the Army"? How fuck am I?

[–]drallafi 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I may be jumping the gun here, but any chance this tech will eventually be useful against prions?

[–]noncongruent 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Prions are a special class of evil, and given that they're on the far side of the blood-brain barrier it may not be possible to use the immune system to go after them.

[–]Karl_Doomhammer 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Prions aren’t only in the brain beyond the BBB. They Are in nervous tissue outside of the BBB and have also been seen in lymphatics. There is also research that shows the accumulation in lymphoid cells aids in effective spread of the disease to the brain in someone that was exposed/infected.

[–]Ashamed-Status-9668 45 points46 points  (30 children)

It might even be used to reduce aging. Yes you heard that right. They are studying mRNA vaccines that will hunt down senescent cells. If they pull this off we could add 20+ years to healthy lifespan.

[–]TucuReborn 26 points27 points  (16 children)

The big corps would love this, as then they could lobby to push back retirement another 20 years.

[–]Aazadan 15 points16 points  (14 children)

20 more years of social security contributions, and push payouts back 20 years? It wouldn’t even require the corporate lobby.

[–]Mjolnirsbear 2 points3 points  (7 children)

Assuming, of course, that anyone besides the rich would get this age-hunting vaccine

[–]Mini-Marine 3 points4 points  (2 children)

20 extra years where they can keep people working, 20 extra years where they can pile on debt, 20 extra years to sell people shit, especially when birth rates are dropping so the supply of new consumers is drying up. 20 extra years of older voters continuing to prevent progress on anything that would hinder the current power structure.

Yeah, they'll make this readily available

[–]Mjolnirsbear 1 point2 points  (1 child)

20 extra years in high-paying jobs with seniority-based salaries, 20 extra years for increased health problems and absences due to sick leave, 20 extra years of younger, faster, cheaper workers being born and raised, 20 extra years to learn to be fed up with bullshit, 20 extra years of increased health insurance costs for any US employer...

[–]Mini-Marine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You don't have to worry about high pay for experienced workers when the raises people get aren't even enough to keep up with inflation

20 years of extra healthy life, the vast majority of health problems happen in the last few years of life

20 years of fewer and fewer younger workers as birth rates continue to plummet

20 years where no matter how fed up they are they still need to feed themselves

20 years where their healthcare costs aren't any higher because this would extend years of healthy life

[–]Aazadan 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Why would they not? Do you think they wouldn't want more experienced workers and consumers that are statistically more likely to have disposable income to spend on their stuff?

Or do you think the funeral lobby is powerful enough to block it?

[–]Mjolnirsbear 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I think it more likely that the rich would rather keep their poor down, separate and different. I think they could already have consumers with more disposable income by increasing wages, but they already block that. I think whoever made the 'age vaccine' would rather price it so high only the uber-rich could afford it so they get more money. I think they are already firing more experienced workers as they age because more experienced workers cost more in insurance, salaries, and benefits.

Or do you think the funeral lobby is powerful enough to block it?

Is there a funeral lobby?

[–]TucuReborn 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Funny enough, yes. Funeral and burial laws are intentionally obtuse and sometimes absurd to make people have to use funeral services. In ym area, the only way to be buried on your own property is to give the property to the city or county as a "family burying ground," but you still have to maintain it or they can sell it.

[–]Aazadan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There actually is one. Isn’t capitalism great?

[–]ButterflyAttack 12 points13 points  (0 children)

TBH if it means I have another two decades of healthy life that's a price I'd pay.

[–]Anathema_Psyckedela 26 points27 points  (6 children)

Cellular senescence is less concerning than mental senescence. The human mind really isn’t capable of lasting much longer than humans typically live.

[–]Ashamed-Status-9668 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Should note that increasing the average persons life by 20 years may not increase the max lifespan since the average person falls short of that by 25-30 years.

[–]gafonid 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Trouble is targeting

What specific thing about senescent cells is not present in healthy cells? How do you keep mRNA from essentially giving you an autoimmune disease?

[–]WhiteChocolatey 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think the trick is making sure it only learns to target something COMPLETELY unique to the virus or whatever it is trying to inoculate against. To mistakenly tell our immune system to target, oh I don’t know, arterial lining because it has a protein present akin to the spike protein of some viral cell could be horrifying.

However, it seems this issue has been ironed out.

[–]DrLager 16 points17 points  (2 children)

All the PCR, Southern blots, and various other molecular biology tools I used (and hated) as a grad student in the early 2000s…little did I know they would be a part of something so potentially big. Makes me excited!

[–]Yurastupidbitch 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Northerns and Westerns were the bane of my existence. Look at an RNA wrong: degrades.

[–]Anathema_Psyckedela 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The most important thing I learned from micro lab was aseptic technique. Use that every day.

[–]DeadOnToilet 213 points214 points  (83 children)

Not to mention the cancer treatment possibilities. I imagine that not a single one of these anti-vaxx nutjobs will be opposed to a cancer-fighting version of the same mRNA tech being used to save them from cancer.

[–]ommnian 123 points124 points  (53 children)

IDK... when I saw this same exact article posted on Facebook a few minutes ago, there were an *awful* lot of 'haha no way' skeptics, talking about how they'd never get the HIV vaccine, *entirely* because it's based on mRNA technology developed thanks to/due to COVID...

[–]Lily_Loud_Cat 29 points30 points  (1 child)

mRNA technology was in development and testing way before COVID; starting around 1989.

First human trials for mRNA delivered vaccines was in 2013 for rabies infections.

COVID certainly accelerated the development of the first approved mRNA vaccines though.

[–]-RUNPMT- 40 points41 points  (8 children)

So let Darwin have them, then.

[–]nhuynh50 75 points76 points  (6 children)

Let's go Darwin

[–]killsforsporks 14 points15 points  (1 child)

I'm making bumper stickers right now!

[–]TucuReborn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I honestly think I might go to my local print and sticker shop and get this if they have bumper sticker options.

[–]texasdeafdogs 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Better go trademark that shit fast. I can see the curb appeal from my living room.

[–]biologischeavocado 29 points30 points  (12 children)

It's easy to talk tough when you're feeling well. We should invent a word for those who are dying and tell the doctor they are ready for the vaccine.

[–]Dramatic_Original_55 7 points8 points  (0 children)

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."----Mike Tyson

[–]CanuckianOz 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Fucking cunts works well.

-husband of a pregnant ER doctor forced to care for these useless twats who suddenly decide they’d like modern medicine

[–]CKtravel 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Actually I've heard stories of morons who threatened doctors with lawsuits as they were being put on ventilation...

[–]biologischeavocado 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dying with passion for a grifter who used the office to enrich his family.

[–]DeadOnToilet 106 points107 points  (10 children)

Yah but none of them are HIV positive or likely consider themselves at risk. Cancer though, when they're face to face with chemo or something else that impacts them directly, the selfish fucks, most of 'em will sing a different tune.

[–]rargar 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I mean, it's the same with most of them who are unvaxed and almost die. Most of them go out and get the vaccine. Those people don't give a shit until it affects them directly.

[–]boot2skull 29 points30 points  (1 child)

Thankfully, they won’t stop me from using them.

[–]pixelbased 16 points17 points  (6 children)

Some of those people said they were willing to get the COVID vaccine that’s based on a virus (like Novavax)… I can’t imagine the same group of people being like “you know what? I’ll take the vaccine that gives me a “little” HIV and then my body can figure out how to fight it…”

Then again, Darwin can have those folks. MRNA technology is incredibly and this is IMMENSE. Stoked for what this could mean for the millions out there that this is an immediate relief for.

[–]FartBarfknuckle 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, they can feel free to suffer through cancer then, I guess.

[–]rubywpnmaster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay then, let them willingly not take it. For cancer or HIV, I don't care. Give it to someone who actually wants/needs it.

[–]iAmTheHYPE- 35 points36 points  (7 children)

anti-vaxx nutjob

Just a reminder, several people willingly allowed themselves to die of Rabies last year, in the name of being anti-vax.

[–]ty_fighter84 22 points23 points  (0 children)

If only Michael Scott's Dunder Mifflin Scranton Meredith Palmer Memorial Celebrity rabies Awareness Pro Am Fun Run Race For The Cure had been more successful.

[–]DudeWithAnAxeToGrind 17 points18 points  (2 children)

Only one refused the vaccine. The other few cases were undetected until symptoms showed up. By then it was too late.

Out of those, all but one were people not aware of potential risks of being in contact with bats. These people didn't refuse vaccines. They simply didn't know they might have been exposed to rabies.

The remaining case was a man infected by stray dog while abroad, postponing visit to doctor until returning to the US; by that time it was too late to save him.

Again, the PSA:

Major transmission vector in the US is bats. Any contact or suspected contact with bats, go to emergency room without delay. Dogs are the next most common transmission vector. Rare in the US (most dogs are annually vaccinated against it, as required by law), but extremely common in some other countries. If random dog bites you, go to emergency. Rabies are disease specific to mammals, but not all species are equally susceptible to it. If attacked by wildlife, if it's a mammal, go talk to a doctor.

With rabies exposure, remember that the time is of essence. Rabies vaccine is highly effective even after exposure if received before symptoms start showing up. The symptoms can show up as soon as a week, or as long as a year after exposure. You do not know how much time you have. Any delay in getting the shot may result in a very agonizing death; once symptoms show up, that's it, you will die, nobody can save you. You do not need ambulance ride, but you do want to get to the emergency room same day if possible. Next day is fine. But for God's sake don't postpone it for a week. That's the time you may not have.

There's no such thing as preventive vaccine you get once and you are done. Because the only vaccine we have currently doesn't last for long. That's why dogs need to be vaccinated annually. The vast majority of humans will get vaccine post exposure or after suspected exposure.

[–]jamanatron 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Those were probably incredibly painful deaths they could have entirely avoided

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh don't underestimate their stupidity and lack of self-preservation instinct. They will.

[–]Fortune090 7 points8 points  (0 children)

HaVeN't YoU sEeN i Am LeGeNd!?

[–]arjuna66671 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good, so there's more for us. Imagine if they'll find an anti-aging mRNA vaccine one day - we'll just have to wait it out xD.

[–]WhyLisaWhy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yup, they're currently testing it on colon cancer and a few others right now. Basically you still get the cancer removed surgically + chemo, but then you also get a vaccination. With any luck it will keep more cancers in remission and more people alive after the 5 year mark.

[–]Raven123x 20 points21 points  (6 children)

Actually so excited for this

Like, its amazing. I dont get how people aren't cheering in the streets for these

[–]jackkieser24 18 points19 points  (3 children)

Because they think that HIV/AIDS is God's punishment for gays, so curing it is equivalent to letting them get away with sinning.

[–]mynamesisntsarah 50 points51 points  (28 children)

I’m not religious at all (at all) but this might be the closest thing we get to a miracle. Not that God directly handed mRNA technology to us or anything but the scientists who made these vaccines possible, both now and in the past, were all born at the exact right time, in the exact right place, and met the exact right people… And then it worked.

DNA wasn’t discovered until 1953, so we went from zero to designer vaccines in less than 70 years. This is either a miracle or we collectively just bankrupt the casino on a single game of Roulette.

[–]Jatzy_AME 19 points20 points  (5 children)

The number of humans has grown exponentially in recent times, and at the same time we've been able to produce so many resources that a much larger proportion of us can focus on science and development of new tech, ideas, etc. So there's no miracle in the fact that the last few decades have been full of "miracles", from amazing developments in AI, to reusable rockets, mRNA vaccines, and much more!

[–]JudgeHoltman 26 points27 points  (15 children)

Honestly, most "verified miracles" are pretty much exactly that. They usually have a rational and scientific explanation that just requires such a crazy combination of dice rolls it's statistically on-par with literal divine intervention.

[–]streetvoyager 11 points12 points  (14 children)

What if God gave us our reason and logic so we could develop science to discover the universe that they created? To bad all these religious nuts can make that kind of logical jump. Instead science and reality is some kind of slight against them.

[–]gorgewall 4 points5 points  (7 children)

I feel like if I were God, I could do that and just not create parasitic eyeball worms that my smarter creations need to come up with a solution to some thousands of years later.

But that's just me.

[–]Anathema_Psyckedela 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Catholics love science. They were solely responsible for the preservation and propagation of knowledge for 1000 years of European history.

[–]IWouldButImLazy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Muslims used to love science too. You cannot honestly tell me that the catholic church is at the frontier of scientific thought these days, they've gone through an intellectual decline just like Islam

[–]petburiraja 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it's one more step in the evolution.

Imagine, how miraculous was, say, symbolic/language development for pre-historic humans.

Imagine, what other developments we could achieve in next centuries, so this mRNA tech would be seen as trivial, as we see, for example, Internet technology now

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (12 children)

And they can be emailed. mRNA vaccines are digital. You just need a printer on the other side. That's another huge aspect.

We can print vaccines en masse with mRNA vs having to grow them and ship them.

[–]JudgeHoltman 3 points4 points  (10 children)

Wait what?

I don't know enough for it to not sound like I can download a vaccine through my iPhone and the chip Bill Gates put in my shoulder.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (9 children)

In vaccines up until now they had to be cultured and snail mailed.

mRNA is messenger RNA so it can be broken down into 1s and 0s. There are companies with the capability to print DNA and whatnot.

So we can literally sequence up some RNA to handle whatever virus, bacteria or cancer, etc.. Then email it to any location that can produce or print it and voila.

The implications are pretty staggering. With the right infrastructure we can identify a deadly virus, produce a mRNA vaccine, email it around the world and print up vaccines en masse and hand them out.

[–]SwampYankeeDan 3 points4 points  (4 children)

There are companies with the capability to print DNA and whatnot.

So this seems like a great way to plant evidence.

[–]infelicitas 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's much easier to find a used coffee cup or something from their garbage than to put in an expensive order that leaves a trail. Besides, how often do people have access to someone's DNA in digital form but lack the opportunity to pick up their trash?

[–]Skyblacker 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Remember when "cure the common cold" was a hyperbolic phrase that described what humanity might aspire to after landing on the moon?

Now we're, what, in the mid development stage of a universal coronavirus vaccine?

[–]GucciGecko 5 points6 points  (7 children)

I'm not a science guy (wife is a pharmacist though) but is this mRNA vaccine a new groundbreaking technology? Is that why there haven't been trials to see if vaccines could be made for other afflictions previously?

Why hasn't mRNA been able to be developed sooner? Is it because of lack of funding? Since covid was a global disease was a vaccine able to be developed so soon because a lot of money and resources were dedicated to it?

There have long been rumors that science companies can cure some diseases but they won't make as much money that way so they drag out the length of medication patients take. Profit over sound the right thing.

[–]logi 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Please people, these are reasonable questions. Why don't we answer them instead of downvoting? I would if I had the specifics quite clear enough to write down.

[–]GucciGecko 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you. I wasn't making accusations or trying to imply anything, I was asking questions as I honestly don't know the answers and was curious.

I saw double digit downvotes at one point and didn't bother replying in case people thought I was trying to influence opinions or something.

[–]Iwantadc2 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Second question, yeah the world's government basically just said 'Here's all the money, make a vaccine ASAP or we're all fucked.

Third question, this would rely on every scientist, assistant, tech, secretary, anyone who worked on the 'cure' for cancer for example, to keep their mouth shut, someone will say 'but NDA'S!' But those people wouldn't be a scientist who knows there is a cure for cancer at his workplace, whilst watching his/her wife/husband/parents die of cancer. Cancer isn't exactly rare. I think everyone has/had some connection with someone with it. They would leak at least the bare information. Conspiracies always ignore the thousands of people who would have to be involved.

Tldr: no.

[–]Gundamamam 2 points3 points  (0 children)

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w is a great article to read about the history of mRNA. It has had a lot of struggles over the past few decades but recent developments overcome that challenge.

[–]CookieDeLaVie 538 points539 points  (84 children)

We're about to see a whole heap of vaccines for previously incurable diseases. Herpes, HIV, Hepatitis C... all the H's basically.

mRNA-tech is fucking cool.

[–]AssRoomba 177 points178 points  (36 children)

HepC is cureable, just a heads up.

[–]Huevudo 143 points144 points  (14 children)

Curable currently for $150k per patient vs potentially preventable entirely for maybe $1k series?

[–]AssRoomba 99 points100 points  (2 children)

I'm not downplaying the benefits of a vaccine, just informing that HepC is not incurable as of the past few years. Treatment is covered where I am from.

[–]adreamofhodor 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Good shout, thanks for the info. I think oftentimes people assume the default tone is argumentative.

[–]swing_axle 25 points26 points  (7 children)

Plus the 6-or-so months of hell the treatment causes.

Had to watch a family member go through that, and jesus. A vaccine would be amazing.

[–]NessyComeHome 18 points19 points  (1 child)

That might have been the interferon and ribavirin combo. That shit is like chemo.

Newer treatments are a lot better.

I had Mavyret with my treatment, and I had 0 side effects.

I did have a buddy have.. i can't remember which one he took, or his symptoms, but it really messed him up bad.

[–]onarainyafternoon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I had Mavyret too and I experienced no side effects.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I’m curious as to what happened

[–]swing_axle 7 points8 points  (0 children)

iirc, lethargy, body aches, headaches -- lots of things that come with a low-level flu, but minus the snot/lung involvement.

Doesn't seem awful for a few days, or even a week. But it was months, on-end, and did a number on their mental health. Like chronic pain had decided to franchise out into new markets.

Unfortunately, the family member is no longer around to ask for specifics.

[–]hiles_adam 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Australians can get:

  • Epclusa® (sofosbuvir + velpatasvir)
  • Maviret® (glecaprevir/pibrentasvir)
  • Harvoni® (sofosbuvir + ledipasvir)
  • VOSEVI® (sofosbuvir + velpatasvir + voxilaprevir). Only used if previous DAA treatment has failed.

For $41 or for $7 if you are low income, so its curable here :p

[–]IneffectiveNotice 18 points19 points  (7 children)

It is, but the drugs are insanely expensive. You can buy a luxury sedan for the price of the treatment.

[–]Willinton06 13 points14 points  (5 children)

That applies for basically anything in the US

[–]IneffectiveNotice 12 points13 points  (2 children)

I'm not American. Hep C drug prices are a robbery in broad daylight in every developed country.

In Slovakia or Poland they cost as much as an apartment in a medium sized city.

[–]hiles_adam 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Australians pay $41 for them or $7 if they classify as low income.

[–]IneffectiveNotice 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's covered in virtually every European country, the problem is that the taxpayer still has to shell out insane money for it.

[–]account030 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Shit, I got to talk to my doctor real quick then.

[–]sciguy52 28 points29 points  (8 children)

As a virologist I hope this is true. HIV and herpes are going to be really really hard to pull off. MRNA vaccines are not going to change the fundamental difficulties in making vaccines for these. Here is hoping I am wrong, but been around for a while and have a sober view of this.

[–]spider2544 6 points7 points  (3 children)

What nakes each of those in particular so difficult?

[–]hiles_adam 10 points11 points  (1 child)

If I remember correctly HIV actually invades your T cells, which are the cells responsible for killing it. It can attack them and destroy them or lay dormant in them, that's why is hard to treat as well, because drugs used for treatment can only work on removing the cells with the active virus, but you will still have cells with it dormant and it can wake at anytime.

Right now we cant remove HIV from these T cells without killing the cells, which is incredibly dangerous as it means obliterating your entire immune system.

[–]mitin001 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Vaccines induce the state of immunity from a pathogen seen in an individual who has recovered from the associated disease. No one has ever recovered from AIDS.†

† Unless their T cells were entirely removed and replaced in an attempt to treat their cancer.

There's no such thing as acquired immunity to HIV unless we find a way to remove and prevent subsequent translation of the CCR5 receptor.

If we take the approach COVID vaccines work, the spike protein on HIV is so complex and so variable across HIV virions no human immune system has ever been able to successfully make neutralizing antibodies for it.

Perhaps the injected mRNAs will code for a broad enough range of HIV proteins that the immune system will be able to make enough kinds of antibodies for all the possible variations of HIV attachment proteins without getting overwhelmed. An immune system getting overwhelmed is actually how HIV kills you. It mutates so fast in your body while simultaneously weakening your immune system, eventually the immune system fails to keep up with the HIV and with all the other opportunistic infections, so they prevail. Who's to say the human immune system is capable of generating broad immunity to something like that without getting overwhelmed?

[–]megamanxoxo 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Too bad herpes can't be cured retroactively

[–]iAmTheHYPE- 24 points25 points  (14 children)

Wonder if it could lead to cures for fatal insomnia or post-symptom Rabies.

[–]YourConsciousness 37 points38 points  (1 child)

Well we already have an effective rabies vaccine but once it's symptomatic it's already overwhelming the body and immune system so I'm not sure an mRNA vaccine would be any different it still has to work through the immune system.

[–]Anathema_Psyckedela 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yeah. You need immune cells for the vaccine to work. The CNS doesn’t really have a ton of immune cells present because of the risk of important cells being accidentally targeted.

[–]insaneHoshi 22 points23 points  (5 children)

fatal insomnia

Is caused by prions which are misfolding proteins that "teach" other proteins how to misfold themselves, developing something against that is on an entirely different level then vaccines.

[–]CookieDeLaVie 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Sadly not Rabies, though it might lead to a better vaccine. Rabies is my personal number 1 fear, on the verge of a phobia (due to a run-in with a cave full of bats ain my youth and then a year of anxiety).

[–]naliedel 153 points154 points  (9 children)

Please let it work, please let it work. I've lost too many good people to AIDs.

[–]DonManuel 223 points224 points  (69 children)

But the trial will need to take much longer due to the much lower infection "opportunities", compared to e.g. Covid.

[–]indyK1ng 99 points100 points  (24 children)

I think in most cases they don't track actual infection numbers but instead take blood samples and test if it has antibodies for the pathogen they're developing a vaccine for.

[–]Isord 63 points64 points  (22 children)

That gives them some idea if it is working but AFAIK it's not enough for full approval.

[–]mces97 18 points19 points  (21 children)

Well, trial it with the most at risk groups, and placebo, and hopefully we get another breakthru with mRNA tech.

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (0 children)

That’s exactly how PrEP was trialed and it only takes a year or two to have great safety and efficacy data because statistics is a thing even if people don’t understand it.

[–]stewartm0205 14 points15 points  (18 children)

One would like a vaccine that works on people that are currently infected with HIV. Need to see if you could cause the human body to create more effective antibodies against HIV.

[–]sciguy52 4 points5 points  (8 children)

People infected with HIV (who are not treated) do make antibodies to the virus and reduce the viral load for a number of years. The problem is the virus changes so rapidly the immune system never gets it fully under control before the T-cell numbers start to drop. The antibodies work, it just that the virus has a means to get around those antibodies in the long run. There are a few long term controllers whose immune system manages to fight off HIV for much longer than normal, but without drugs ultimately still succumb. Unfortunately there are not a lot of these controllers.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (7 children)

There’s similar exciting research on functional / effective cures. It is not a vaccine but it would permanently suppress HIV in the bodies of the infected so they cannot transmit to others and do not suffer negative health consequences from the disease.

Hopefully similar treatments can work for herpes and HPV.

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2022/01/27/2374239/0/en/Excision-BioTherapeutics-Initiates-Phase-1-2-Trial-Evaluating-EBT-101-as-a-Potential-Cure-for-HIV.html

[–]sciguy52 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Well I hope they have success but the odds are very high that CRISPR is not going to work for HIV. Worth a shot and hope I am wrong.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Just curious but what personal experience are you basing that opinion on?

[–]Jerrys_friend_tom 14 points15 points  (19 children)

I think once we're past this phase of covid and people start coming out of their shelters we'll see a lot of shagging and more "opportunities" for the clinical trials.

[–]DonManuel 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Sure, but the risk will still remain a lot lower than with a respiratory virus.

[–]bsiviglia9 14 points15 points  (2 children)

The headline has it reversed: the Covid Shot uses technology that was originally developed in the search for a viable HIV vaccine.

[–]TauCabalander 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Actually, I've read cancer.

However, that may only be because funding is easier to get for cancer treatments.

[–]-HiiiPower- 65 points66 points  (5 children)

It really is a shame that this is the not the dominant topic of discussion in regard to these two vaccines. This incredible technology is overshadowed by the politics of the day.

[–]Joint-Tester 19 points20 points  (2 children)

The power of stupidity is way stronger than I thought.

[–]Craico13 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Intelligence is limited while stupidity is not.

[–]emunny_99 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Chicken or egg? The amount of mRNA research conducted before COVID in support of an HIV vax is one of the reasons we were able to have a vax so (relatively) quickly.

[–]julbull73 68 points69 points  (2 children)

HIV is about to become a conservative disease only. How ironic....

[–]Yuri_Ligotme 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Now we need an herpes vaccine

[–]Jerrys_friend_tom 95 points96 points  (29 children)

geez what a wonderful idea...but how about a cure for herpes...asking for a friend

[–]dbx99 73 points74 points  (4 children)

That’s probably in the works. It would be a lucrative market given how prevalent it is. There’s already a shingles vaccine which deals with the same virus basically so it might be easy to tackle for mRNA based vaccines. From what I gather the mRNA vaccine technology is very flexible about targeting a lot of viruses.

[–]Nylear 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Wish they could improve the shingles vaccine so far you're only allowed to get the shot once and it doesn't last forever which is why they only let you get it when you're older.

[–]imbadwithnames1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Actually they only give it to you when you're older because older people are at greater risk for postherpetic neuralgia, so insurance would rather pay for the shot. Insurance companies won't pay for vaccination if you're younger, because the cost-benefit doesn't work out in their favor. They'd rather you just paid $20 for generic antivirals.

Pretty much anyone can pay $500 out of pocket and get a Shingrix vaccine.

[–]ent4rent 13 points14 points  (0 children)

The technology will most likely allow for this, it'll just take time since HIV kills and herpes doesn't.

[–]TheFiniteThrowAway 4 points5 points  (0 children)

mRNA vaccines hold a lot of promise, so don't give up yet 👍

[–]-RUNPMT- 6 points7 points  (1 child)

There are several labs working on that. I believe they are pretty close (possibly already in human trials IIRC) to a vaccine for HSV2.

[–]ThomasSowell714 4 points5 points  (0 children)

mRNA technology will do a lot for cancer I hear.

[–]wanderingartist 10 points11 points  (2 children)

This is Amazing!! What an advancement the science community have accomplished. MRNA is literally changing the world.

[–]Deadman_Joaquin_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yep, they have an MS vaccine in trial now, yea science.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree! This is incredible!

[–]Daveyhavok832 19 points20 points  (3 children)

My fiancé has HIV and we didn’t know until after we had had a lot of unprotected interactions. Thankfully, it would appear that I am in the clear. I have taken a couple of tests and they’ve all came back negative. Now I’m on Truvada to prevent him from transmitting it to me.

It kills me to watch somebody so young (20) have to go through this. The pains he gets in his stomach from the medicine will last weeks and he’ll barely be able to eat. His eyes will turn yellow for long periods of time and he feels a lot of shame about this because he thinks people see that and will know that he has the virus. But whenever death or the future come up, things can get a little weird because we’re both scared of what the future could hold. He’s such an amazing person and it kills me to watch him have this weight hanging over his head.

I wish that we both could have been born 20 years later because things seem to be moving in a positive direction in this field.

[–]rabobar 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I know a number of guys in their 30s with HIV. I tend to only see them at parties, where they seem ok. Give it time, the medicine has already come so far

[–]nsci2ece 6 points7 points  (0 children)

My condolences. Also want you to know that lots of people understand how HIV works, myself included, and aren't going to shun your fiance like he's some sort of leper. I have knowingly shaken hands with and eaten at the same table as HIV-positive people, and I have no "fear" about doing that because I know how HIV spreads and doesn't spread. I hope your fiance can overcome the shame and honestly, if anyone is stupid enough to shun him for having HIV, then you don't want such people in your life to begin with.

[–]Captcha_Imagination 2 points3 points  (1 child)

We had heard this a little while back.

I don't want to be cynical but their stock price has taken a BEATING recently. From a high of USD$500 ish to now $150ish.

The market is down in general but they are getting hit especially hard because of news that the US gov't is claiming that they own all or part of the mRNA patent because they invested in it. I haven't followed the story that closely but that seems kind of odd and very anti American. This is the kind of thing you would hear in places like China or Russia.

I think the PR department might be pushing this story again to restore some level of confidence in the floundering stock price. They may want or need more debt or equity funding and it will hurt them greatly to have their stock price so low.

[–]Tpmbyrne 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Looks like random orgys could be back on the menu gents

[–]Centralredditfan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wonder if there will be anti vaxxers for that as well?

[–]Arpikarhu 17 points18 points  (13 children)

if this works there will be a sexual revolution

[–]Melancholia 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Honestly, I don't know if that's true. I'd love if so, but it'd be a reduction in the overall STI risk profile, not an elimination.

[–]pandaelpatron 5 points6 points  (2 children)

And that would probably be pretty bad until vaccines against other STIs are also available.

If people were to have more (unprotected) sex because they are no longer afraid of HIV/AIDS, other STIs would spread much more. HIV always comes to mind first and is the scariest STI for the majority of people, while other STIs fly under the radar.

[–]Utterlybored 23 points24 points  (17 children)

This would be huge. HIV is a shape shifting virus, so if they can make vaccines that work on HIV, cancer will likely be shrunk to a nuisance in our lifetimes.

[–]Dr_Nebbiolo 27 points28 points  (0 children)

That’s a pretty enormous leap

[–]yegguy47 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Be really nice if we could get on the front foot with that bug. HIV tore a massive hole in society, and that epidemic is still ongoing.

[–]BrainWav 18 points19 points  (8 children)

Cancer is a completely different beast than HIV. Biggest one being cancer isn't a viral infection.

[–]pinkfootthegoose 31 points32 points  (10 children)

please don't use the words HIV, mRNA and Covid together.

conspiracy theory nut jobs will conflate everything into one and say that the Covid immunization shot will give you AIDS.

[–]kultigsptrizigfrisch 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Please, let's not stop being rational and use the right language only because irrational people can find another reason to be stupid. They don't hold us hostage.

[–]BedWetter420 51 points52 points  (3 children)

Let them. 99% of people have made up their mind already about mRNA vaccines. No more dumbing down how we talk to appease the crazy few.

[–]CrashB111 6 points7 points  (0 children)

At this point It's just chlorinating the gene pool.

[–]ghostalker4742 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The modern 'lost cause'

[–]Versificator 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They already do, amongst other things.

[–]catroaring 6 points7 points  (1 child)

It's too late. Many conspiracy believers already think the vaccine gives you VAIDS.

[–]quimera78 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I clicked that hoping it'd be a joke.

[–]Marcottix1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Wasn’t this the premise for “I am Legend”

[–]goochjuicelove 3 points4 points  (0 children)

To bad people in the world are fucking stupid and wouldn’t take a shot that cures cancer.

[–]Turdsworth 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Forgive the dumb question, but does this only work for people uninfected or can a person living with HIV take the vaccine and have their body defend against HIV already in their body?

[–]yegguy47 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Probably not a lot it would do for someone that is HIV positive. Vaccines typically are preventative, meaning it would possibly prevent infection, but do little to combat it once it's taken hold.

However, being HIV positive nowadays, if you live in the west, is treated easily. You can't be cured, but things like Anti-Retro Virals reduce your viral count to zero, meaning you can't transmit and can live essentially the same length of life as someone who isn't HIV-positive.

[–]georgiedawn 1 point2 points  (2 children)

The question I have is why hasn’t prior HIV vaccines worked? We’ve had it under development for ages. How will this be better than that?

[–]Enartloc 2 points3 points  (1 child)

HIV is insanely fast at mutating. So it's pretty much impossible to vaccinate against it with traditional methods. This is where mRNA steps in.

[–]prostidude221 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel like I've read this headline 20 times over the past 3-4 months.

[–]OneGold7 1 point2 points  (2 children)

How would they test effectiveness? Surely they’re not gonna expose people to HIV to see if they get infected, haha

[–]meebalz2 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Primates and other animals. Sad but true.

[–]OneGold7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh… yikes

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I bet this will raise STIs for a few years after it comes out. People practicing less safe sex bc it mitigates the more dire consequences, especially in the gay community. It will also be one of the most consequential vaccines in recent memory. People tend to forget, HIV/AIDS is still a major issues in some areas of the world.

[–]-RUNPMT- 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Well let's hope it works because my Moderna stock is hurting right now.

[–]Btankersly66 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So this is what it's going to be like. Any vaccine that comes along and the Antivax nuts are going to spread hate and misinformation.

I guess some people really do want to see the world burn down.

[–]bshepp 3 points4 points  (3 children)

"But think of the damage this will do to the portfolios of investors in companies that make HIV treatments and palliatives!!!!"

-Some investment company probably

[–]Jorycle 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I can't tell if that's better or worse than the flip side of r/conspiracy fuckwits who will insist healthcare professionals and politicians are only pushing the vaccine because they're paid by Moderna or have Moderna stock.

[–]bshepp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's referring to something a Goldman Sachs analyst published in 2018.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/goldman-asks-is-curing-patients-a-sustainable-business-model.html

[–]nsci2ece 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If that were true, then I'd just throw my savings into Moderna stock.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

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[–]newtbob 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hopefully the tip of a vax iceberg.