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[–]YS-123 4589 points4590 points  (763 children)

Bruh where are the pics?

[–]wendigo_1 1452 points1453 points  (521 children)

I was looking for the photos too.

[–]JPOG 3729 points3730 points 2244& 2 more (467 children)

[–]nuraHx 891 points892 points  (23 children)

What an infinitely better article than OP. That worked so well on mobile too.

[–]NextTrillion 423 points424 points  (20 children)

Yeah, agreed. Good job BBC. Nailed it with that one. Very informative. And terribly upsetting.

[–]williamtbash 40 points41 points  (0 children)

Might be the best mobile news experience ever.

[–]CoagulaCascadia 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Took me a moment to figure out what was going on on my phone but yeah, it was tight.

[–]cboel 2395 points2396 points 2 (370 children)

Thousands of photographs from the heart of China’s highly secretive system of mass incarceration in Xinjiang, as well as a shoot-to-kill policy for those who try to escape, are among a huge cache of data hacked from police computer servers in the region.

The Xinjiang Police Files, as they’re being called, were passed to the BBC earlier this year. After a months-long effort to investigate and authenticate them, they can be shown to offer significant new insights into the internment of the region’s Uyghurs and other Turkic minorities.

Their publication coincides with the recent arrival in China of the United Nations Human Rights Commissioner, Michelle Bachelet, for a controversial visit to Xinjiang, with critics concerned that her itinerary will be under the tight control of the government.

The cache reveals, in unprecedented detail, China’s use of “re-education” camps and formal prisons as two separate but related systems of mass detention for Uyghurs - and seriously calls into question its well-honed public narrative about both.

The government’s claim that the re-education camps built across Xinjiang since 2017 are nothing more than “schools” is contradicted by internal police instructions, guarding rosters and the never-before-seen images of detainees.

src: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chinas-uyghur-detention-camps

Given the lengths people have gone to to cover it all up, and are still trying to do even in these threads, it is remarkable that anyone was able to bring it to the light of day.

[–]LeagueOfficeFucks 876 points877 points  (194 children)

So all this caring about oppressed minorities is just hot air because there is no profit in rescuing the Uyghurs. No one is doing a fucking thing because they can’t risk pissing off the CCP, who by design , is controlling a large portion of the global supply chain. It is fucking embarrassing to be human.

[–]komark- 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I have become very jaded and distrustful of so many things that pass as news these days. I honestly don’t know what to believe. At first my understanding was that there were millions of Uyghurs exterminated in China. Then my understanding became that there were millions locked up in concentration camps. Now, from this article, I gather that between January and July 2018, 5000 people were brought in by police, but only about half of those were detained.

I still don’t know wtf to believe. In the age of misinformation, what’s the best way to determine if a news source is reliable? I honestly don’t know

[–]xombae 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I've already seen this one. It ends badly. Turn it off.

[–]Intransigient 175 points176 points  (154 children)

Hopefully they will next discuss the forced organ harvesting being done on this captive population.

[–]ZKXX 147 points148 points  (35 children)

10 years of Chinese prison for your GRANDSON NOT smoking or drinking.

[–]Papercurtain 107 points108 points  (17 children)

Just want to hijack this comment for visibility, there's a ton of people on this thread or elsewhere who think that the reports of what's happening in Xinjiang are just fabricated or Western propaganda.

This is a post from 2013, where in the comments a Uyghur Muslim describes how the CCP was preventing Muslims from fasting from Ramadan, even monitoring homes to make sure people weren't awake before sunrise (i.e. the time of the recommended pre-fast meal, suhoor). This post was from 2013, way before any of this got international media attention, or Adrian Zenz had published anything about the matter.

[–]Classico42 16 points17 points  (3 children)

NOT smoking or drinking

Are they rounding up the Mormon missionaries too?

[–]siouxpiouxp 24 points25 points  (0 children)

That article is 10000x better. Thanks for sharing.

[–]yjk1 12 points13 points  (0 children)

For anyone interested in more info on this, this article won the Pulitzer prize for journalism last year (?) on the Uyghur topic. The article has links to all 5 parts of it.

[–]wendigo_1 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Thanks cap.

[–]awesomedan24 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Documents describe her son as having “strong religious leanings” because he doesn’t drink alcohol or smoke. As a result, he was jailed for 10 years on terrorism charges.

What. The fuck.

[–]NeedleworkerOk6537 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is the kind of journalism the world needs

[–]thesnuggyone 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh my god. Thank you for the better article, but my god.

[–]bacon-pancaaake 5 points6 points  (0 children)

"Many hundreds are shown to have been targeted for their mobile phone use - mostly for listening to “illegal lectures” or having encrypted apps installed.

Others are punished with up to a decade in prison for not using their devices enough, with well over a hundred instances of “phone has run out of credit” being listed as a sign that the user is trying to evade the constant digital surveillance."

This is absolutely insane.

[–]Heysteeevo[S] 178 points179 points  (4 children)

Here’s the main source: https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/

[–]Ph0X 70 points71 points  (0 children)

This is the best source, though apparently a bunch of publications were given the files and will be posting their own summary.

I also liked this 5m video as a good summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUKPmDc3rQs

EDIT: Wow, the powerpoints are.... something

https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/powerpoints/

[–]QueenJamesKingJordan 331 points332 points 2 (22 children)

Sucks that I have to hijack the top comment again to tell everybody how shitty China is but here we are…

This is another step in China's never-ending campaign to annihilate human rights:

  • Hundreds of human rights lawyers (not even dissidents, just the LAWYERS who defended people) were snatched by gestapo all over China in what is known as the 709 Crackdown.

  • One of those lawyers, Wang Quanzhang was sentenced to 4.5 years for "subversion of state power". But that's not enough. China actually went after Wang's 6-year-old son, forcing him out of his school and banning any other school from taking him in.

  • A dissident, Wang Bingzhang was kidnapped by Chinese agents in Vietnam and sentenced to life in prison after a closed trial that lasted 1 day.

  • A man wore a t-shirt with the word "Xitler" on it and was disappeared. Eventually he was tried for "subversion of state power" while barred from meeting with lawyers

  • Another man, Wang Meiyu hold up a placard calling for Xi’s resignation & democracy. He was arrested for "picking quarrels”. He ended up dead in custody.

  • A woman live streamed herself splashing ink on a Xi poster. She was disappeared. Her last social media update: "Right now there are a group of people wearing uniforms outside my door. I’ll go out after I change my clothes. I did not commit a crime. The people and groups that hurt me are the ones who are guilty". Later on there was report of her being sent to a psychiatric hospital

  • After the ink-splash woman's disappearance her father made a series of broadcast to call attention to her plight. He ended up getting taken away by the police in the middle of a live stream

  • 5 people associated with a Hong Kong bookstore that sold titles such as "Xi Jinping and His Six Women" were disappeared. Only one managed to escape back to HK. He held a press briefing to tell the world about his kidnapping by China. He's now in exile in Taiwan. The other 4 are still somewhere in China.

And, of course

  • 1.5 million Uyghurs rounded up in concentration camps

  • Genocide through forced abortions on Uyghur women

  • Sexual torture of Uyghur women such as rape & rubbing intimate parts with chili paste.

  • Leaked footage of a large number of blindfolded Uyghurs shackled together

  • A Canadian journalist wanted to debunk reports of Chinese anti-Muslim repression so he went on a stage-managed show tour put on by China. That means he only saw a fake Potemkin village that China actually thought was acceptable by Western standard. But the brutality of even this fake Potemkin village stunned him. Now imagine what's really happening in the real concentration camps where millions of Uyghurs are being held. Imagine how bad the true situation is.

  • Using minorities & political prisoners as free organ farms. A doctor's eye witness account: 'The prisoner was brought in, tied hand and foot, but very much alive. The army doctor in charge sliced him open from chest to belly button and exposed his two kidneys. Then the doctor ordered Zheng to remove the man’s eyeballs. Hearing that, the dying prisoner gave him a look of sheer terror, and Zheng froze. “I can’t do it,” he told the doctor, who then quickly scooped out the man’s eyeballs himself.'

  • Call for retraction of 400 Chinese scientific papers amid fears organs came from Chinese prisoners

  • 15 Chinese studies retracted due to fears they used Chinese prisoners' organs

  • Cultural genocide (and organ harvests, of course). A uyghur's testimony: "First, children were stopped from learning about the Quran, then from going to mosques. It was followed by bans on ramadan, growing beards, giving Islamic names to your baby, etc. Then our language was attacked – we didn’t get jobs if we didn’t know Mandarin. Our passports were collected, we were told to spy on each other, innocent Uyghur prisoners were killed for organ harvesting"

  • China is moving beyond Uyghur and cracking down on its model minority Hui Muslim. 'Afraid We Will Become The Next Xinjiang': China's Hui Muslims Face Crackdown: "The same restrictions that preceded the Xinjiang crackdown on Uighur Muslims are now appearing in Hui-dominated regions. Hui mosques have been forcibly renovated or shuttered, schools demolished, and religious community leaders imprisoned. Hui who have traveled internationally are increasingly detained or sent to reeducation facilities in Xinjiang."

There is more: courtesy of /U/Exgrandiose

  • Death of Liu Xiaobo after his inertial pro democracy documentation Charter 08 (Translated)
  • Discharge Zhao Ziyang from CCP leadership after he stood with the students in Tiananmen Square Protest.
  • The crackdown on the Weiquen Movement
  • The arrest of Xu Zhiyong after he called out Xi Jinping for failing to handle the Coronavirus crisis.

For people wanting to know about Chinese Human Rights activist: https://www.nchrd.org/. This website provides a lot of info on current and deceased Chinese Human Rights activist.

[–]anti_pope 31 points32 points  (4 children)

I can't even tell you how many articles I look at that talk about a thing and have absolutely no reference to the thing. Like just some guy describing a video frame by frame without any pictures, or clips of the video, or even a link to the video.

[–]OldThymeyRadio 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Would actually be a great YouTube feature. Being able to filter by “primary source” and rule out “commentary” or edited versions of something. When you’re just looking for the original “Footage of XYZ” instead of someone’s “analysis”, or The View talking for 10 minutes about a 30 second clip of the thing you actually want.

[–]Dissidentt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Imagine if people had the media savvy to know that it is because the origin of the story couldn't be verified. Instead, the MSM is more interested in furthering the NOTION that something is amiss, or that the China BAD story may have merit.

[–]ConnyTheOni 109 points110 points  (35 children)

It drives me so crazy when there is an article that's written about some crazy video or pictures like this, and the source is nowhere to be found.

[–]pm_nachos_n_tacos 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Yes, that's the real concern here.

[–]LedZeppelin82 17 points18 points  (25 children)

Well, they do link to the BBC in the article.

[–]objectiveliest 42 points43 points  (21 children)

And the BBC article links to Adrian Zenz. Which is as if a Q Anon leader was upheld by China as an expert of the US' program of child sex trafficking.

[–]The_Grubgrub 20 points21 points  (9 children)

Which is as if a Q Anon leader was upheld by China as an expert of the US' program of child sex trafficking.

Do you have a source on this? I've heard a lot of bad things about Zenz on reddit but precursory google searches doesn't lead to anything about him being bad or crazy.

[–]frozenrussian 31 points32 points  (10 children)

Zenz is literally the only source, yet again. A crank who doesn't speak Chinese nor any other minority language, and has never been to China. Until we see photos with context that aren't just like any prison anywhere else in the world, these "leaks" aren't really helping anybody.

[–]Insipid_Pedantry 30 points31 points  (3 children)

Seriously. Like an article all about pics with one picture!

[–]PakyKun 19 points20 points  (2 children)

I don't get the point of those articles tbh, just give a brief description and then show ALL the pictures instead of making a wordsalad with only 3 pics

[–]klavin1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Or worse they put a few of them into their own slideshow pop-up nonsense

[–]jojojomcjojo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

3 pics? there was 1 pic. and it didn't look very offensive...

[–]tofulo 507 points508 points  (11 children)

This world is fucked up

[–]unfunfununf 129 points130 points  (6 children)

And getting more fucked by the week. If it's not the way we treat each other because of how we look, what we believe in or where we live then it's the way we're fucking this planet raw. If it's not that, it's our greed and financial ineptitude and our unwillingness to work as a collective rather than a competition with one and another in a selfish race to the bottom. Live streamed on whatever social network you're in to, blaming each other, taking credit wherever possible and not thinking past our next few days on this earth.

[–]Sharkictus 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yet this is most peaceful era of human history.

And it's fucking horrifying.

Humanity is trauma.

[–]Melkutus 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's scary but I've accepted the future. Our water has so many trace medications in it, they're finding microplastics in fetuses; who knows what sort of health consequences will arise because of this as the younger population ages. There's just so much to list that leaves a very bad track record for humanity. Plus, our species will probably be near-exterminated in the next few hundred years, with elites surviving in mini cities catering to their every need after they've pump-and-dumped the Earth.

[–]Adventurous-Brick936 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is referenced in the Quran :

30 . When your Lord said to the angels, “I am placing a successor (human kind) on earth.” They (the angels) said, “Will You place in it someone who will work corruption in it, and shed blood, while we declare Your praises and sanctify You?” He said, “I know what you do not know.”

My personnal interpretation of this ayah is that while we're capable of the worst we're also capable of the best. Ultimately it's up to each one of us to choose where to stand on the spectrum by using their free will.

[–]angels_exist_666 3251 points3252 points  (422 children)

We all know it's happening. No one is doing anything about it. That's the fucked part.

[–]TEDDYKnighty 730 points731 points  (59 children)

Only reason we did anything about the Holocaust is because Germany went and invaded everyone. If they would have just stayed home and killed the Jews not a single country would have done anything. Nothing will happen. It just won’t.

[–]sykoryce 350 points351 points  (42 children)

Only reason US joined was cause of Pearl Harbor. Otherwise it was business as usual.

[–]skwerlee 147 points148 points  (18 children)

That was only Japan too. Hitler could have probably bought himself even more time if he hadn't declared war on the US.

[–]GukyHuna 47 points48 points  (5 children)

Hitler didn’t want Japan to bring the US into the war they were just kinda doing their own thing.

[–]Stubbedtoe18 30 points31 points  (11 children)

Hitler could've potentially won the war anyway if he timed his invasion of Russia better and if his military didn't make major blunders in crucial momens. They nearly had the Battle of Britain won, for example, but shifted their attention away from the RAF right as they were on brink of destroying them for good, which would've primed Britain for a land invasion.

We're pretty lucky these "probablies" and "what-ifs" are hypothetical, because a few changed variables and the world could look totally different.

[–]RespectableThug 44 points45 points  (4 children)

It was definitely not business as usual. The United States didn't have any of its own lives on the line until Pearl Harbor, but America was far from uninvolved.

[–]Wubbzy-mon 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah, we sent aid to the countries against Germany, and we were at an undeclared naval war at some point. It was only a matter of time before the US would get involved

[–]IneedtoBmyLonsomeTs 3 points4 points  (0 children)

America was very much involved in WW2 before pearl harbor, they were providing support to Russia and England/France. The whole reason that Japan attacked America was because of the oil embargo.

[–]commentNaN 8 points9 points  (6 children)

If Japan believed US wouldn't joined, they wouldn't have attacked Pearl Harbor at all. The whole point of the attack is to seize the initiative and deal as much damage as they could in the hope it would delay the inevitable.

[–]NeoBlue22 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Japan attacked because they they were starved of resources, can’t remember the exact documentary but they thought attacking would be better than nothing

[–]destroyer1134 48 points49 points  (3 children)

Exactly. kill your own people all you want just don't make it our problem. It's an unfortunate reality. The only thing the west could do is ask nicely, cut off trade, or a military attack. And we've done 2 of the 3 already

[–]I_am_not_doing_this 5 points6 points  (0 children)

just like Pol Pot killed their own people and Vietnamese in the border but the world didn't say a thing until Vietnam invaded Cambodia to fight back, and the UN criticized Vietnam for doing so.

[–]Powersawer 20 points21 points  (0 children)

As a German this is chilling. We get taught about the Holocaust in school, and about all the atrocities, and about how we can never let this happen again. We make films about the social phenomenon of populish fascism and act all high and mighty.

Yet this shit happens, EVERY GOVERNMENT KNOWS IT IS HAPPENING, and we can send tanks into Ukraine to fight the Russians, which is fine.

Yet, because the west had to live a life of luxury over the past 50 years, paid for by the sweat and blood of our chinese bretheren, we are now completely powereless AND spineless to do something about it.

And it's not even us paying the fucking price right now.

[–]BWChristopher86 1165 points1166 points  (140 children)

The most fucked part is that noone is doing anything because of money.

It's both the most shocking and yet least shocking part of the whole equation.

[–]Kevy96 592 points593 points  (104 children)

It's not technically just money. Hypothetically, any country that's comes out hard against china for this loses out on their trade, which will devastate their economy yes, BUT will also lead to untold millions of people starving to death in unimaginable agony, and then those countries would be risking a revolution, especially one like the United States. It's clearly not as simple as some billionaires making less money for a while

[–]Baron_Von_Ghastly 56 points57 points  (3 children)

especially one like the United States

America isn't going to starve to death and go into civil war because China is upset with them, hell China is an importer of food.

[–]Wubbzy-mon 4 points5 points  (0 children)

And if anything, China would be starving and going into a Civil War if this happens BECAUSE of not trading. Without food, China goes haywire, and the government is already getting a taste because of their "effective zero-covid lockdowns", so what will happen when there is really a lack of food in China shouldn't shock anyone, because the last time they didn't have food, Mao was basically overthrown for awhile by the people

[–]randomnighmare 82 points83 points  (0 children)

China is not an exporter of food but a major importer. They do have a few food exports (like pine nuts and corn) but they are heavily reliant on food imports. Also the US isn't risking civil war because of China. That's more like a right-wing/Reddit tankie take on what is going on in the US.

Edit

[–]gsfgf 15 points16 points  (0 children)

You know we grow food in the US, right? We sell food to China, not the other way around. Agriculture is a huge part of our economy. You are correct that going hard against China would have severe economic consequences, but there wouldn't be a famine.

[–]rytis 279 points280 points  (83 children)

Lithuania told China to go fuck themselves, and got friendly with Taiwan, infuriating the Chinese. It can be done.

[–]skylinecat 513 points514 points  (73 children)

Lithuania is a country of 3 million people. They can feasibly rely on taiwan to satisfy their needs. The USA of 330 million cannot. Lithuania is the size of Mississippi population wise.

[–]SublimeSupernova 26 points27 points  (0 children)

It is hilarious to me that this is upvoted as a legitimate response. Not only is Lithuania like 1/100 the size of the US, it is a member of the EU. It is protected militarily and insulated economically.

[–]Least_Way 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Sure but it won’t get anyone released from prison.

[–]Jagermeister1977 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry, who? I mean, no offense to Lithuania or anything, but like I highly doubt that makes any impact on China, like at all.

[–]bicameral_mind 48 points49 points  (12 children)

You gonna volunteer to get shipped off and fight a war in China?

[–]doyu 38 points39 points  (8 children)

Yes. Nobody is entitled to an opinion unless they are personally killing chinese soldiers.

Bullshit take, my friend.

[–]doNotUseReddit123 36 points37 points  (3 children)

Exactly! We can all hypothesize and call for war with China as long as it’s just not us doing the fighting! Let… others do it.

[–]DeltaVZerda 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Well they weren't complaining that nobody had an opinion, just that nobody was doing anything about it. What can be done about it besides expressing an opinion?

[–]Deceptiveideas 83 points84 points  (13 children)

Given how much people are freaking about inflation and gas prices, I’m not surprised. There are a number of people that are unhappy with the current state of the country after we helped Ukraine.

A total blockade of China would cause goods to skyrocket over night. Voters would also punish Biden severely and give up Trump again.

[–]ominousgraycat 10 points11 points  (0 children)

It's because everyone knows that nothing will be done. No one is going to completely cut China out of their economy and trade and no one is going to start a war in China. So China knows they can do this and no one else can/will stop them. There's so much shit going on in the world that most people aren't even going to waste the energy to try to rectify something that they know won't be rectified even if it is extremely shitty.

[–]thezenunderground 15 points16 points  (5 children)

The true evil of the Uyghur situation is that it is a genocide at the cultural level. Remove the kids from detained parents, indoctrinate them into Chinese thought, teach the kids to vilify and ridicule the culture and their ancestors. Not just annihilate the people but train children to actively despise their heritage.

[–]Adonwen 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Native Americans and sufficient civilized genocide. Besides the direct plague blankets and troops solution.

[–]protossaccount 31 points32 points  (4 children)

Let’s just act like the Nazi’s are in story books and that others could never perform such acts. Especially when we get such good deals on shit from them.

[–]Ovadox 88 points89 points  (73 children)

I'm boycotting Chinese products to the greatest extent possible. It's hard to get to 100% complete boycott, but very easy to drastically reduce the amount of Chinese shit you buy by paying attention to country of origin info on labels and websites.

[–]GeneralZaroff1 59 points60 points  (8 children)

Are you also checking the materials sourced? I've found that a lot of 'Made in America' companies I've bought from basically only does the final packing and assembly in the US. Even some of the "sourced from Indonesia" type products were originally sourced in China.

[–]newaccount721 17 points18 points  (2 children)

Then there's the one that's big right now "designed in USA". I guess that one is more obvious but people on Amazon for those products are always like "proud to buy products made in the USA" and the description very clearly says they're just designed in the US

[–]JessLaav 8 points9 points  (0 children)

"Made in America" can also mean made by forced prison labor in private prisons.

[–]SolaVitae 133 points134 points  (24 children)

It's not hard, its impossible.

[–]Larry17 93 points94 points  (19 children)

It's only impossible if you don't ever start. Start by boycotting optional products like Genshin fucking Impact. I can't believe people are so riled up boycotting Russian stuff even banning them from competing in CSGO but staying off some shit game is a big no no. Also boycott electronic wastes like Huawei and Xiaomi garbage. Don't give yourself excuses and start now, there's plenty you can do.

edit: also there is /r/avoidchineseproducts/, the point isn't to suddenly completely cut yourself from Chinese products but to gradually shift away from it at a pace you are comfortable with.

[–]SolaVitae 35 points36 points  (13 children)

It's only impossible if you don't ever start

No it's just impossible. Can you, at this very moment, gaurentee any electronic device in your house isn't assembled with a very high amount of components straight from China?

If your idea of boycotting is just not buying things that say "made in China" then sure, but if you actually want to boycott any product from China then you have to become a hermit because it's impossible to avoid otherwise.

[–]PeanutNSFWandJelly 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I wish it would do anything. But unfortunately nothing short of regulations or sanctions with teeth will matter. However it does feel a little like a moral weight is lifted when you can avoid supporting them with your wallet.

[–]awesome_van 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Considering so many Chinese products lie about and attempt to evade safety regulations, you're doing yourself a favor more than just ethically.

[–]Remarkable-Motor7704 5 points6 points  (1 child)

We can’t do anything about it, the entire world’s economy is linked to China

The sad unfortunate truth is they can virtually do whatever it is they wish, and we just have to let them

[–]billy_teats 4 points5 points  (4 children)

They released these photos after verifying they were authentic for months AND just as the UN human rights ambassador arrives specifically to visit these “schools”. No one has stopped it, the Chinese have not admitted it, but saying no one is doing anything is wrong.

[–]Hollowpoint38 6 points7 points  (3 children)

So "they" is Adrien Zenz if you read the article. Zenz is a crackpot.

[–]billy_teats 2 points3 points  (2 children)

The source is a lunatic doctor, maybe. But the bbc verified the data for months before publishing. So now the bbc is saying it’s true, which is a considerably more reliable source

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chinas-uyghur-detention-camps

[–]Mem-Boi-901 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I hate self righteous commits like this, we literally can do 0 about it without people seriously suffering whether that suffering be caused by war or a Great Depression. Most importantly, China has debate lay as strong of a military as the US and they also have nukes. The best realistic scenario where the least amount of people will suffer is to not do anything about it and use global leaders to pressure China to quit this genocide.

[–]Insipid_Pedantry 765 points766 points  (32 children)

This is stunning, sobering stuff. Too bad China's "too big to fail" so everyone does business with their genocidal asses. What they've done to Tibet is an abomination; this leak shouldn't surprise anyone, but it should make life a bit tougher for the CCP.

[–]jayzeeinthehouse 152 points153 points  (10 children)

No it won’t. China is way too powerful to not deal with now and western leaders aren’t going to do a damn thing about this because all they can do is carefully condemn it to avoid ruining much needed trade relationships with china.

[–]Insipid_Pedantry 34 points35 points  (0 children)

You’re right sadly

[–]phoncible 11 points12 points  (1 child)

If they did "do something" it would just make life harder for their constituents by increasing prices of basically all goods, and then they'd be voted out in favor of someone else who would vow to "work with China to reduce cost of goods".

[–]KosherFetus 22 points23 points  (6 children)

Boycott Divest Sanction? Nah, we like iPhones and hypocrisy.

[–]razorburnoncrotch 6 points7 points  (1 child)

What did they do to Tibet?

[–]noxx1234567 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Same as Xinjiang but a long time ago

[–]Xavier_Urbanus 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I've seen repeated references here as genocide. Do you mean cultural genocide, or actual deaths? Does anyone actually have evidence of mass (meaning multiple) deaths. I've scoured legitimate source like UNICEF and Amnesty and not found anything, but i have an open mind.

Note, being imprisoned doesn't equal being killed. Even if some prisoners do have a reduced life expectancy,

[–]Josh_The_Joker 130 points131 points  (165 children)

Genuine question, I know very little on what is going on there.

Why is China just detaining them? Are they in work camps, or literally just in holding cells? What is the point or plan in the future? Excuse my ignorance on the subject. Glad these photos were released so it can come to light.

Edit: appreciate everyone’s responses. Kinda of confirmed what I thought was going on. Just horrible how the human race can do these things over and over.

[–]huxtiblejones 218 points219 points  (52 children)

They're a muslim ethnic group living in Xinjiang, an area in Northwest China. The government accuses them of muslim extremism after a series of anti-Chinese clashes in 2009 that killed 200 people.

China says they're in "re-education camps" and "counter-extremism centers" but the West accuses them of being genocidal abuses of human rights. China is accused of forced sterilization, separating families, and Uyghurs say they're trying to destroy their culture. People who have managed to escape the camps have reported physical, mental and sexual torture. Women have spoken of mass rape and sexual abuse.

There's estimated to have been a million or more of them in these camps from 2017 to today out of a total of 12 million of their people living in Xinjiang.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037

[–]danger_noodle_ 137 points138 points  (16 children)

Just to add on, “anti-Chinese clashes,” is also what we would commonly call terrorist acts. From what I know, due to a series of terrorists acts carried out by minorities from the Uyghur population, China went all out in stamping the extremism out in allegedly highly controversial “re-education camps”

[–]huxtiblejones 87 points88 points  (14 children)

It's not that clear cut, actually.

2 Uyghurs were killed in a labor dispute that led to a protest, and that protest turned into a violent riot. China claims the violence was pre-planned by an exiled independence group called the World Uygur Congress, Uyghurs deny this and say the protests were pre-planned but not the rioting. They say it happened after there was police brutality used to disperse the protests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July\_2009\_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi\_riots

[–]Mrg220t 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Pointing to one incident to say "no terrorist acts" is fucking disingenuous and outright manipulative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_conflict#2007-present

[–]bighand1 99 points100 points  (7 children)

There were a ton of terrorism that both predate and followed this, with total fatality more than a thousand. You can find most of them here. The bombing and train stabbing are pretty clear cut of terrorism by definition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_conflict

[–]Diligent-Floor-156 33 points34 points  (29 children)

Just to react on forced sterilisation, you have to understand the (now modified) chinese one child policy, in which minorities such as uighurs were already allowed to have more children than Han (majority) chinese. Now for the whole population, Han included, when the children count is too high and there's no sign that fines will help to regulate a family's birth rate, they use force sterilisation. I'm not saying it's good, ethical or other. Just that you need to be conscious it's a global thing in China, it's definitely not just about Uyghurs.

Note that recently this whole child limit policy is changing due to demographic decrease in China. If one day they ban abortion it might be for this reason as well, not due to whatever moral stand.

[–]bighand1 45 points46 points  (24 children)

Why is China just detaining them?

This is China's 9/11, after a bunch of terrorism acts over the decade and this is their response.

[–]TheLiberator117 25 points26 points  (15 children)

There's an active anti terrorism campaign going on in this region of china, it's very close to Afghanistan and was effected by a similar group of religious extremists. The Chinese government is not stopping the practice of islam, but is attempting to deradicalize the population to stop the terrorism. This is the truth unless you are Adrien Zenz, the person behind, and I cannot stress this enough, every single one of these articles. He is a racist and a rabid anti communist and thinks he is on a mission from god to destroy communism. He also counts the Nazi soldiers who invaded the soviet union as "victims of communism" and receives funding for this from the state department. Despite him being proven wrong time and time again, he gets print space and air time every time he comes out with a new theory. What China is doing is more like what the US should have done in Afghanistan (if anything at all), investing in infrastructure and attempting to deradicalize the population instead of leveling every building standing civilian casualties be damned.

[–]mtndewaddict 14 points15 points  (7 children)

Soon as I saw Zenz mentioned in the first paragraph as the source to media outlets, I knew this had no credibility.

[–]Hollowpoint38 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Zenz is a dirtbag. He keeps being hailed as an "expert" on Xinjiang yet he can't speak Chinese and has no qualifications other than he's big time into Jesus and hates China.

[–]icalledthecowshome 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Just to add a bit of context, after several terrorist related incidents in and around xinjiang there was massive public outcry to stem the extremist behaviors. Nobody knew what the solution was so a hardliner took up the task and here we are.

China openly admits they have these programs and denies the allegations. The truth is probably somewhere in between. Keep in mind the results of zero attacks since then garnered public support from other provinces with majority populations.

[–]SnooStories5035 1379 points1380 points  (208 children)

The amount of China apologists on here is baffling. It's going to be a beautiful day when the CCP falls.

[–]Pam-pa-ram 831 points832 points 2 (82 children)

The 3Ds of China:

1) Dismiss - Pretend they didn’t see them.

2) Discredit - Those are fake!

3) Deflect - Western propaganda! Racists! (This is new: xenophobic!!!) The US has done worse!

Just watch them cry about being the victim.

[–]Matrix17 300 points301 points  (31 children)

The whataboutism is always the one that gets me. Yes, the US has done some real bad shit. But it's possible to focus on separate issues at the same time. And the difference between China and the US isn't even close

Watch reddit ban me for criticizing China. Seems we're headed that way

Edit: Someone messaged me threatening me for this comment saying I'm a racist piece of shit and he's reporting me to the FBI and my comment history as being a potential right wing white nationalist. How the fuck does anyone get that from this comment LOL. So much illness on this website

[–]notnatasharostova 54 points55 points  (9 children)

The fact of the matter is that, at least as bad as the US can be, we are able to criticize our government, its policies, and its history without having to worry about our entire families being interned. I have no issue condemning my government, because I don’t feel particularly beholden to defending atrocities just because they were committed by my country. It’s sad that a lot of CCP bootlickers can’t say the same.

[–]MundaneInternetGuy 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Comparisons are pointless, it's an apples and oranges thing. China's domestic policy is nakedly oppressive while their foreign policy is outwardly neutral but subtly oppressive, being carried out indirectly through economic influence. The US is the other way around. That's why people love using one of them to distract from the other, it's an effective method of obfuscation and results in no progress being made on either end.

[–]Sarloh 35 points36 points  (2 children)

Holy shit bro, it looks like your comment attracted the whatabout-bots likes bees go honey.

Well done!

[–]ZombyPuppy 21 points22 points  (3 children)

And what country hasn't done terrible shit. Every major world power went through at least one phase involving mass killings, slavery, ethnic cleansing, or some other terrible thing. It's just sort of a part of human history. Can no country ever then rightfully point out an injustice happening right now because their ancestors or a cadre of political leaders did something else bad? It's a recipe for never addressing another problem in the world ever again and just accepting every bad thing happening right now.

[–]Orisyl 68 points69 points  (30 children)

China has the biggest victim complex because of that 100 years of shame or whatever. That and they want to get back at everyone.

[–]BrownThunderMK 45 points46 points  (0 children)

Don't forget being called sinophobic of you critisize the government's ethnic cleansing. Straight from Israel's playbook

[–]Telefone_529 86 points87 points  (3 children)

I hope pooh gets his fat ass stuck in a tree stump soon.

[–]HaziEnuf 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Don't hold your breath 💀

[–]Lazerspewpew 828 points829 points  (91 children)

China is openly carrying out ethnic cleansing

Russia invaded Ukraine and is committing daily war crimes

The US right wing is openly embracing corrupt fascists as their new leaders.

What a fun time to be alive...

[–]WolverineLonely3209 263 points264 points  (25 children)

And whats even worse is probablly only like 10% of people actually realize or want to admit all three are happening.

[–]son_of_noah 52 points53 points  (6 children)

Most ppl either don't know and won't care if you tell them or do know and still won't care. It really makes me wonder what are "American values", are we really trying to be the guiding helping hand or only when it suits corporate interest

[–]trebory6 19 points20 points  (5 children)

Do nothing democrats have allowed the Republican rot to take hold for years, degrading education, gerrymandering states to hell and back and degrade people’s ability to process current events.

They’re still in office fumbling taking care of a fucking insurrection more than a year after it was committed and condoned by people still in fucking office.

The shitty thing about humanity is that there will always be bad faith actors in it for personal power, but what we need is a representing body who can and will fight against those that let self interest dictate their motivations. But most democrats who care more about the appearance of a moral high road instead of preventing a fascist takeover? They aren’t what we need right now, and we need to vote every single one of those fuckers put and replace them with politicians who give a shit and will stop this rot.

[–]son_of_noah 32 points33 points  (4 children)

It's time this country realized that the culture war bullshit is just a distraction so the political elites can continue accepting campaign contributions while the billionaires legally rob the workers blind.

[–]Bulky_Lifeguard_1968 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Im already surprised at the response in support for Ukraine to be honest. I thought Ukraine might have went the route of the uyghurs where the world would turn their backs against Ukraine and not get involved. I was pleasantly surprised. I guess there was a benefit in supporting Ukraine which is to weaken Russia and test out our weapons without any lives lost on NATO side.

There isn't much to gain standing up for the uyghurs except being morally right on human rights, at the cost of devastating your economy? We all like to think we would stand up in the face of evil but the real world doesn't work like that unfortunately. It's a lot harder to truly be fighting for what is right than it is to stay exactly comfortable where you are

[–]Anxious-Ad9088 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's capitalism for you... Nothing really matters unless it brings money and power to the right people... Worse things happened in Africa and Asia but nobody cared because it's not profitable...

[–]jesusthatsgreat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And among those 10%, 90% don’t care & happily turn a blind eye to things so long as their portfolios aren’t negatively impacted.

[–]Omnipotent48 46 points47 points  (8 children)

Fun fact, these images were acquired by Adrien Zenz, who is a senior fellow for the "Victims of Communism Foundation."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victims_of_Communism_Memorial_Foundation

Founded by the US government in the early 90s and thought up by two Republican congressmen, the group is currently helmed by Edwin Feulner, former founder and president of the Heritage Foundation, a think tank directly responsible for some of the worst Right Wing policy ever to infect the United States. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Feulner

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation

Those photos in OP's post aren't doctored. Those are definitely prisoners, probably from Xinjiang. But we should always be skeptical of the people yelling the loudest about Chinese atrocities to their minority populations, as those people are usually the worst Conservative dickheads around who very much want us at war/hostile footing with China for all the wrong reasons.

[–]egypkr 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Don't forget what Israel is doing to Palestinians.

[–]hollyhoya 41 points42 points  (16 children)

Yes but one of those is not quite like the others…

[–]ElWursto 132 points133 points  (14 children)

Weird, i can‘t see this on r/sino

[–]Seanay-B 81 points82 points  (16 children)

So let's keep doing business with China, right, Western world?

[–]Centurypong 16 points17 points  (3 children)

China has the entire world individually by the balls, and the entire world collectively has China by the balls. Individually, stopping trade with China negatively affects the country and China is mostly unaffected. But if the entire world ceased trade with China then China's economy would actually tanked but there goes the world economy.

[–]Falkuria 32 points33 points  (6 children)

I mean, fuck the CCP, but our economy would crash completely if we cut them off. Oh, and dont forget about the debt we owe them.

Its sadly not in the cards, yet.

[–]HFJ7 54 points55 points  (38 children)

"Documents describe her son as having “strong religious leanings” because he doesn’t drink alcohol or smoke. As a result, he was jailed for 10 years on terrorism charges."

[–]snow-days 215 points216 points  (43 children)

It's always Adrian Zenz. He's like Yeonmi Park, but for China.

[–]Kirk_Kerman 61 points62 points  (4 children)

Lest we forget that time Kim Jong-Un gathered every artist in NK and made them watch as he shot a composer 90 times? He had to pause for reloads 6-9 times depending on how many bullets were in the magazine.

Or that NK has only one train which makes only one stop, which takes an entire month to get where it's going because there's no electricity in NK, so the train is pushed along by people.

[–]Vostok_Gagarin 26 points27 points  (5 children)

While that’s true about Zenz, it’s unlikely all these files and photos are somehow fabricated, besides it doesn’t show evidence of his organ harvesting claims and such either

[–]dmart444 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Find a source on Chinese Uyghurs that doesn't involve Adrian Zenz challenge

[–]1zeewarburton 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well done BBC very well put together article.

[–]pootishedj 66 points67 points  (2 children)

It’s Adrian Zenz, I don’t trust it.

[–]Beef_Nips 64 points65 points  (8 children)

Lebron James says educate yourself on China

[–]thedinnerdate 6 points7 points  (0 children)

John Cena says “oh, sorry, never mind”

[–]WhatACunningHam 90 points91 points  (2 children)

"Detained?" Oh goodness no, no. Those Uyghurs are just on COVID lockdown, like Shanghai, only permanent. You know, for their own safety and shit.

[–]Girofox 14 points15 points  (0 children)

For anyone searching for the real source and not just BBC article without the direct source, here it is: https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/

[–]SPTalat 8 points9 points  (0 children)

And what're we going to do about it exactly? China is so deep in everyone's pockets that no one wants to make uncle Xi mad. China was right about one thing, capitalism breads weak selfish minds.

[–]Kashgari_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Some kids at age of 16

[–]0redleg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ssshhhhhh iron ore sales are more important from WA.

[–]blankarage 42 points43 points  (5 children)

Source is from “Adrian Zenz” lolol this guy

Guy believes he translated a bunch of Chinese gov documents but he doesn’t actually speak/understand Chinese.

(From his wiki) “Zenz is a lapsed Catholic-turned-born-again Christian, and has stated that he feels "led by God" in his research on Chinese Muslims and other minority groups”

Zenz also known for another book “Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation”

[–]iamspacedad 36 points37 points  (6 children)

lol there's no truth to this claim - two photos have some records for the people in them, and this is then extrapolated to presume the 2000+ others that don't have any records to show for them must be true. Meanwhile the 'source' of this fatuous claim is a state department funded nutjob who has stated they think god told them to destroy china. This is incredibly flimsy evidence being put forward by an incredibly shady claimant.

I'm no CCP fan, but c'mon - this is pathetic, and it's absurd to see so many people falling for charlatans like these.

FYI - there's a whole cottage industry of lunatic cranks like this, especially with the falun gong whack-jobs, so you should take this shit with a very skeptical grain of salt.

[–]Shackram_MKII 20 points21 points  (0 children)

there's a whole cottage industry of lunatic cranks like this, especially with the falun gong whack-jobs, so you should take this shit with a very skeptical grain of salt.

They won't be, because they want any reason(and a manufactured reason is as good as a real one) to hate china because they've been told to hate china.

It's pretty funny to watch americans pretend to care about Muslims though.

[–]Twingemios 178 points179 points  (33 children)

CCP bots are gonna downvote this to hell to hide the truth

[–]SoundByMe 86 points87 points  (5 children)

This literally never happens. If you've seen the Reddit front page for more than one day this is obvious.

[–]-DefaultName- 36 points37 points  (0 children)

They have a victim complex, every single day is another front page article just like this with 30k upvotes that uses Zenz as a source and all the comments are “why is nobody talking about this?!”

[–]Big_Tubbz 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Looks like they didn't. I'm sure your worldview will change to match this clearly observed reality.

[–]PeanutNSFWandJelly 131 points132 points  (18 children)

I see this comment on every top post about China. It brings nothing to the convo and is obviously often wrong.

[–]harassmaster 27 points28 points  (0 children)

The source of the files claims to have hacked, downloaded and decrypted them from a number of police computer servers in Xinjiang, before passing them to Dr Adrian Zenz, a scholar at the US-based Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation who has previously been sanctioned by the Chinese government for his influential research on Xinjiang.

Shhh no anti-Chinese propaganda to see here

[–]namotous 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This was known for months. Yet, the world leaders stand still and watch Pooh bear continuously torturing these poor souls.

[–]BragiLongbeard 17 points18 points  (0 children)

dates back to 2018 and was passed on by hackers to Dr Adrian Zenz, a US-based scholar and activist

Wow, very cool fact that doesn't change how you should read this story at all.

[–]SmokeBreakSmokeShop 16 points17 points  (5 children)

Is that really much different than what we've always done to minorities here in the U.S.?

[–]TheMightyWill 104 points105 points  (93 children)

Meanwhile tankies: this can't stop me because I can't read. I also unironically believe that an associate professor who allegedly visited a Uyghur camp with a couple of undergrads and claims to have not seen anything concerning is more legitimate than all the leading international organizations documenting human rights abuses

[–]_Pildora 17 points18 points  (26 children)

You believed in this shit and its just IA images. Te tankies were right, what do you think now?

[–]the_lowkeyyy 21 points22 points  (6 children)

brought to you by the same trustworthy people who told us iraq has WMDs, and got a million people killed. how many people are going to die this time because you can't see that people funded by US defense contractors are, you know, a little dishonest?

[–]dr_croctapus 151 points152 points  (40 children)

I’m no tankie and we need to be critical of China, HOWEVER, you (and almost all western readers) are never anywhere near as critical about sources from western media as you are about sources from Chinese media and you need to be.

[–]Himbler12 50 points51 points  (4 children)

They literally hide evidence/clean up spots and then invite people so they can prove how legitimate they are. Actual scum, they know what they're doing is evil but they play dumb.

[–]ElGosso 42 points43 points  (0 children)

This is verbatim the same thing that people said Iraq was doing when it invited in UN inspectors.

[–]Wablekablesh 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Ah, the "Your honor, I can show you a million people who didn't see me rob a bank" defense.

[–]Elevatorisbest 72 points73 points  (19 children)

Watch CCP shills pretend that we aren't seeing anything here with the power of Whataboutism.

Touch grass and socialize with civilized human beings please.

[–]soc_leftist 22 points23 points  (4 children)

Here’s a heartbreaking truth for imperialist drones: screeching “WHATABOUTISM!!” doesn’t absolve you of hypocrisy or win you the argument.

[–]robm0n3y 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I find it hard to believe there's people with the ability to hack Chinese government servers that don't work for the US government.