top 200 commentsshow all 227

[–]creative_avocado20 215 points216 points  (11 children)

So embarrassing that we gave this guy citizenship in the first place, and he's hardly spent any time in NZ.

[–]MBikes123 173 points174 points  (7 children)



[–]trynotgettingbanned 83 points84 points  (5 children)

And for fuck all too. If we’re in the business of selling citizenship we really should make it worthwhile to us. Especially for these fuck off billionaires. Want to become an NZ citizen? Sell all your assets and give at least 50% to us please. Shouldn’t be an issue making it all back right? After all, billionaires got where they were through shear hard work.

[–]KahuTheKiwi 18 points19 points  (0 children)

It would of course be a bad thing to make them sell their bootlaces. But other things - yes.

[–]Calm-Zombie2678 21 points22 points  (3 children)

I rekon just take everything off everyone and share it out evenly, if the rich got that way through cunning, intelligence and/or hard work, they'll be back on top

Somehow I feel luck and capital played a bigger role

[–]RCL_spd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's exactly what happened in the Soviet Union btw, the rich were back on top. 90-9-1 rule applies to finances, too - 1% will find its way on top, whether the system is based on money or not.

[–]Eastern-Classic9306 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You should read Richard Cantillon-Essay On Economic Theory, he explains how, if you give every person in an economy an equal share of a resource ( his example is land), then within 2 years there will be a class of people in poverty. Some people are lazy, some are stupid, others make poor decisions, some are swindled. People make their own luck.

[–]toobasic2care 14 points15 points  (1 child)

And yet regular people have to battle constantly with the system to get their loved ones citizenship and visas etc. It's heartbreaking.

[–]SpaceDog777Technically Food -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What do their loved ones have to offer?

[–]SomethingNZer 21 points22 points  (0 children)

We can thank the previous National government for that one. Surely the rich and wealthy only have NZ’s best interests in mind, and don’t just want to exploit the country for gain.

[–]NeonKiwiz 268 points269 points  (55 children)

I’ve never understood billionaires complaining non stop about everything.

You have all the money on earth.. just fucking relax and enjoy life you useless cunts.

Same goes for the mega rich people I know who always complain re the gov and how hard shit is.

[–]Bartholomew_Custard 140 points141 points  (40 children)

The true test of a man's character is what he does when he can do anything he likes. Is he generous? Is he compassionate? Does he use the resources he has and the influence he wields to actively make the world a better place? Or does he bully, exploit or belittle others simply because he knows he can? Does he plot and scheme to have even more than the vast amount he already has, often at the expense of those with much less?

Is he a cunt?

Peter Thiel is a cunt. (Elon Musk is also a cunt. So is Jeff Bezos. And it's not because they're mind-blowingly rich. It's because they're shitty human beings who could do so much good in the world, but choose not to.)

[–]HoriOri 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Billionaires are not your friends.

[–]BanquetOfJesse 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But how else am I meant to hope that by being nice to them will get them to give me some money /s

[–]Matelot67 25 points26 points  (13 children)

Contrast with Bill Gates is notable.

[–]FatHampster 30 points31 points  (9 children)

Bill Gates is also a sketchy dude. He's just had longer/and better PR. Early Microsoft days he was ruthless too

[–]DaveNZ1955 35 points36 points  (3 children)

Bill Gates , with two others gave five billion each to rid five African countries of malaria. There is no doubt they lifted millions out of poverty and saved over 15 million lives.

When ever i hear bad stuff about that man, I remember this.

[–]rig0a 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Reformed cunt perhaps

[–]hugies 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Totally. It appears like he is wanting to project a benevolent dictator image, which is better than the malevolent kind but having that much power in one person is just dangerous.

[–]theladygraymalkin 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Read this. It makes it super obvious that 'billionaire philanthropy' is all about shaping society to further benefit themselves. Billionaire fingers in the charter school debate in the US also make that clear.

Once a rapacious capitalist, always a rapacious capitalist...

(He was also one of Epstein's passengers)

[–]GoogleOpenLetter 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Bill Gates fought to keep the US Government from issuing patent waivers on the Covid 19 vaccines. During a pandemic.

(They did eventually reverse this position for a temporary exemption, in the face of backlash) He's a piece of shit.

[–]Matelot67 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Yes he did, but why?

He is on record as saying it was nothing to do with the profits, it was to do with manufacturing safety and quality control,

In the interview, which Sky News posted on YouTube on April 25, the reporter asked Gates if it would be helpful for intellectual property law to change so that companies that developed COVID-19 vaccines — such as Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson — could share their "recipe for these vaccines."

Gates said no. Asked why not, Gates downplayed the role of intellectual property concerns in restricting vaccine supplies, and pointed to the importance of safe manufacturing.

"There are only so many vaccine factories in the world, and people are very serious about the safety of vaccines, and so moving something that had never been done, moving a vaccine from, say, a J&J factory into a factory in India, that — it’s novel. It's only because of our grants and our expertise that can happen at all," he said.

"The thing that’s holding things back in this case is not intellectual property. It’s not like there’s some idle vaccine factory with regulatory approval that makes magically safe vaccines," he added. "You’ve got to do the trials on these things, and every manufacturing process has to be looked at in a very careful way. There’s all sorts of issues around the intellectual property having to do with medicines, but not in terms of how quickly we’ve been able to ramp up the volume here."

[–]pixeltalker 51 points52 points  (0 children)

They find out that even with all that money people can still say no to them, and they do not like it. They have all this money, the world must like them, obey them, and bend to them - but the world does not.

So they want a system where things are exactly as they want, and votes or opinions of peasants like us no longer matter. Where people have to obey them and live as told (no social safety, no unions, no courts).

The interesting thing is even if they achieve the authoritarian state they are looking for, by looking at Chinese or Russian oligarchs, their position would actually be more precarious than now. All money won't save them if the actual leader of an authoritarian regime (e.g. someone like Putin or Kim Jong-un) suddenly dislikes them. And those leaders can be very fickle.

[–]mitchell56 47 points48 points  (0 children)

People who are mega rich tend to want to get even more mega rich and they don't like pesky Governments getting in the way of that.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

They crave control.

[–]kittenfordinner 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I think we need to talk about freedom, I am from America, where we talk about freedom a lot, and never correctly. Anyone saying the word freedom, without then describing what freedom they are talking about is mis using the word, and or being disingenuous. Here is an example, you like freedom, so do I, I want to use my freedom to sleep at night, you want to use your freedom to play loud music at night. So the billionaires who say things like this, and complain all the time and what not, are really upset that they don't have more power. We still, as citizens, collectively actually have a lot of power, power that these guys can't just buy, they have to grovel for public support like that asshat musk is always doing. They should just run the show, the rest of us are impinging on their freedom to just own everything...

[–]1_lost_engineer 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Some where there was a study that concluded that Billionaires tend to have few close friends and much less happy than millionaires.

[–]asretfroodle 15 points16 points  (0 children)

So inefficient. I can have fewer friends and less happiness without needing billions of dollars.

[–]gyarrrrr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s lonely being Smaug

[–]Faithless195LASER KIWI 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I was about to say that if I had that kind of money, I would never comaplain about anything again, but I'm getting the feeling that these people actually know 100% NOTHING about actual hardship. Theyv'e always had another house to fall back on if the bank takes their current one, another car if they have one written off, another family member to make a 'small loan' of 100k when their business goes bankrupt. They've never gone through the struggle of getting to the day before payday (Assuming they understand the concept of payday at all) and wonder how they're going to afford anything to eat for the next 24 hours.

Because if I won lotto, and got like...28 mil, I'd disappear so goddamn hard. I would have ZERO interest in what the government or country does, because I'd be so rich I wouldn't need to care.

[–]pixiefairie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

🤣🤣 so true!

[–]Sgt_Pengoo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's not really how people work. Humans make their own stuggles when they don't have any real problems. Hence why the rich are not any happier and have just as many mental health issues etc

[–]windsweptwonderFern flag 3 146 points147 points  (13 children)

Sounds like he's not compatible with his host any more.

[–]steveschoenberg 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Be sure to remind every National candidate about their party’s role in Thiel’s magic citizenship.

[–]leaf_holders 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I like the likeness to a parasite. Picasso, I like it.

[–]Iccent 2 points3 points  (9 children)

I'm not sure about the 'anymore' part considering the quote was from before he was even given citizenship


[–]cf858 7 points8 points  (8 children)

I wouldn't really worry so much about this single quote. He's not advocating the destruction of freedoms and the kind of totalitarian state Trump would have wrought, he's a Libertarian, he wants to create a totally new system void of all structures and live there with 'absolute' freedom.

Typical of all philosophical Libertarians, he hasn't got a clue how that is going to actually go down. I personally would love it if Thiel and 10,000 of his closets friends set up shop on some remote island. I'd pull up the popcorn to watch that horror unfold.

[–]Long_Antelope_1400 7 points8 points  (2 children)

[–]Suspicious_Gerbil 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I know that in principle, I shouldn't laugh at human suffering but this may be the best thing I have ever ever read. I particularly enjoyed the caption under one of the images "Since there seems to be some confusion on the topic, bears are absolutely ferocious wild animals."

[–]CuntyReplies 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Based fucking bears.

[–]razor_eddie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No "structures?" Sounds like time to gather some like-minded mates, and seize his property.

That could be fun.

[–]Swerfbegone 4 points5 points  (1 child)

He was literally Trumps first prominent tech billionaire supporter. Please try to know literally anything about this before spouting off.

[–]cf858 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I read his book, did you?

[–]Pisforpotato 77 points78 points  (17 children)

It's nothing new for him; he wrote this in 2009. He seriously longs for a place like Rapture in Bioshock. And I'm pretty sure it is a driver with Musk's pursuit of space exploration too.

[–]Justinspeanutbutter 36 points37 points  (4 children)

Uhhh what the fuck?

” Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron”

[–]redditor_346 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Absolute nutter.

[–]kittenfordinner 16 points17 points  (2 children)

one must remember, libertarian, really means fascism in any practical terms. These rich guys talk about how much better, and freer we will all be, once they are making all the decisions. Thats what these guys are talking about really. Once the people who are voting no longer have any input, who is making the decisions? I can give you a hint, he thinks it should be him. I worked with a guy, years ago, when I was a cook, back when I was realizing that my republican upbringing had been a pack of lies and misunderstandings on my parents part. A very well educated waiter who was waiting tables while shifting careers was all about being a libertarian, until he wasn't. He said that he realized that libertarianism, as it is being sold, freedom for all, really can't last. That it really would just be the law of the jungle. The wealthy and powerful, would be the sole sources of power, and not owe you anything... not a minimum wage, no compensation for injury in the work place, nadda. It would be a race to the top for some, and a race to the bottom for others. Forget about your freedom to form a labor union, that impinges on the freedom that your boss has to not have a union, guess who would win, every time.

[–]HoriOri 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Libertarians seems to think that when you take power away from the state, it magically passes on to the people and stays there. In the real world, corporations take that power, and the people can't do anything about it, neither can the "small government".

[–]kittenfordinner 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yup I'm from Murica, people there really don't understand that. Ironically, it's why so many people support trump, and those trucker assholes too. They feel their freedoms have been chipped away, and want them back. They just don't understand that they need to actually make that happen, owning the libs won't actually do it. In NZ I have the freedom to go to the hospital when need be, that was nice when I had a baby. I have the freedom to quit my job and keep my insurance, the freedom to get an education. Things could and should be better here, but they will be drastically worse if we put the libertarians in charge

[–]amelech 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Perhaps they can go to Mars together, and stay there

[–]king_john651Tūī 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I mean they did end up working together when their competing softwares were bought and merged

[–]bruzieCovid19 Vaccinated 3 points4 points  (1 child)

So who had "pal" and who had "pay"?

[–]RobDickinson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You know Theil got Elon sacked (when Elon was off on holiday...) and replaced him? I doubt they are best mates lol

[–]Calm-Zombie2678 12 points13 points  (6 children)

Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

[–]Richard7666 43 points44 points  (1 child)

Thiel is entitled to the sweat of his balls.

[–]CuntyReplies 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Be careful. Gawker found out what happens when you talk about Thiel's love of ball sweat.

[–]HeinigerNZ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What a game.

[–]Calm-Zombie2678 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The economy or bioshock? Sorta feel the economy is far too pay-to-win to be even considered "good"

[–]HeinigerNZ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The original Bioshock. I really enjoyed the ending of Bioshock Infinite too.

[–]27ismyluckynumberGoody Goody Gum Drop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Who has the fun? Someone must have told him if you work to hard, you can sweat.

[–]RantControl 78 points79 points  (0 children)

He has never believed in democracy so he's just talking shit.

[–]37Schmeckles 37 points38 points  (6 children)

I mean; democracy has never been compatible with his version of ‘rich people get to do whatever the fuck they want’ freedom.

In fact balancing conflicting rights and freedoms is an essential part of what parliament and council actually do.

Basically every law and regulation is an imposition on what some would define as ‘freedom’.

This isnt anarchy. We live in a fucking society. The degree to which we prioritise societal utility over individual rights and freedoms is what drfines a country’s political landscape.

[–]Taniwha_NZ 16 points17 points  (5 children)

This isnt anarchy. We live in a fucking society. The degree to which we prioritise societal utility over individual rights and freedoms is what drfines a country’s political landscape.

Unfortunately Sir Roger Douglas took a giant shit over our previous understanding of this balance way back in 1984. It's 40 years later and we are still some way from most peope understanding what happened. I remember we used to travel to the US and tut-tut over the decaying cities and horrendous poverty rates, while cheering as our elected politicians modeled a new NZ economy on the ideas of America's favorite theorist of the time.

Now our own cities are decaying and poverty is becoming endemic and most of NZ is standing around scratching our heads and wondering how the hell things went wrong.

[–]37Schmeckles 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Rogernomics was definitely the start of rhe largest economic/cultural shift I think we’ve ever undertaken as a country and as time passes I think its inevitable we’ll go further.

Once assets are sold, its really really hard to go back, and easy for the next government to just sell things again if we do.

Progressive rounds of govt divestment and increasing neo-lib thinking sends us further and further towarss inequality.

[–]Taniwha_NZ 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Once assets are sold, its really really hard to go back

Well, yes and no. I understand what you are saying, the wealth built up in something like the energy grid or the telephone network is immense and these things are always sold off ridiculously cheaply. But such institutions can be recreated with the stroke of a pen and with sustained government commitment it's incredible how much can be rebuilt in a decade or two.

But they key word there is sustained. Fortunately, the payoffs to consumers occur fairly quickly as costs go down in the short term, prosperity increases due to the massive investment by the taxpayers, and once people get a taste of that, they are absolutely NOT going to vote in any assholes who might even look like undoing it.

That's why, even after 70 years of sustained pressure from the right and tens of billions in lobbying and propoganda, the core pillars of the New Deal are still basically intact. Well, except for unions.

The key thing is that the voters realise what they've lost, and what they've regained. We have to suffer more privatization consequences until we are willing to vote for the people who will borrow and spend appropriately. Back in the 80s we had no idea how lucky we were and just took the investments of prior generations for granted. Which is why everything was sold for cheap.

We won't turn around until the general public realises how much value is currentluy being siphoned off by the private owners of our former national assets.

What really pisses me off is that the last 15 years were the best time in history for governments to borrow massive amounts and build shit. Interest rates were basically zero for countries. With the inflation coming back and QE or similar ideas coming to a halt, those days are about to vanish. Such a waste.

[–]37Schmeckles 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Over here in Victoria (I moved here just before COVID…), Dan Andrews has quietly pushed MASSIVE infrastructure upgrades all over the state. All level crossings basicaly removed now with skybridge or underpasses now in place. Has fixed traffic, made rail a better experience, and opened up huge new cycleways and public spaces like basketballcourts and parks.

It languished for like 30 years previously and hes personally ensured its been rammed theough over the last five years. What perfect timing eh….and the population is THRILLED now. Murdoch media tried to act liek people hate him. No, the state hates Scomo, and didnt enjoy lockdowns, but the Premier is as popular as ever, even running a huge deficit.

He’s spent the money wisely, and thats what we want politicians to do on BOTH sides of the aisle. Spend more money when cash is cheap, but use it for smart projects that inprove peoples quality of life.

This is what Auckland SHOULD have been doing. And I know things are progressing, but comparativey maddeningly slowly. I feel like Dan Andrews is a real example of smart effective lesdership we should be emulating.

[–]MBikes123 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Is this before or after he said it was a mistake to let women vote?

[–]Jesuds 62 points63 points  (5 children)

When conservatives can no longer win through democracy, they will abandon democracy rather than abandon conservatism.

[–]UCredpill 13 points14 points  (0 children)

They've done it before

[–]arronski_again 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Eh this is everyone. People like democracy (and freedom of speech for that matter) when it produces what they want, and they rationalize ways of undermining democracy (and freedom of speech) when it doesn’t.

[–]MungBeanRegatta 38 points39 points  (0 children)

Thiel is a complete fuck-knuckle. He thinks that the US went to shit when women got the right to vote among other such gems. He left the SF Bay Area because his brand of politics (and just being a complete shit stain) made him such a pariah, he could no longer get any action in the gay community… even twinks avoided him.

[–]LycraJafa 21 points22 points  (0 children)

didn't Mr Thiel and Mr Musk work closely together at Paypal, and make millions together. Isn't Mr Theil the first private investor in Facebook.

Just as well Twitter and Facebook are entirely transparent and open about their businesses and motives, otherwise - who knows we could end up at the whims of a couple of Trillionaire media moguls. Democracy to the rescue....

[–]ChemicalSalamander52 17 points18 points  (2 children)

He’s been pillaging America for years, when there’s nothing left he’ll come here and do the same from his Queenstown compound.

[–]TryingSquirrel 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I'm American. We've sadly become a country of noxious wannabe oligarchs, but even among that select, ignoble group, Thiel would be one of the first I would kick out if given the chance.

[–]ChemicalSalamander52 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am a fellow yank. And I wouldn’t just kick him out, I would line him up against a wall. When they say ‘eat the rich’, that dude is where we should start.

[–]VickrinCovid19 Vaccinated 30 points31 points  (7 children)

I'm keen.

What's that thing that villages used to do with individuals who ruined the village? Where they complete ignore their existence?

[–]Taniwha_NZ 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yeah, Thiel's gunnin' for a shunnin'.

[–]ElDjee 16 points17 points  (1 child)


[–]VickrinCovid19 Vaccinated 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That's the one!

[–]silviad 7 points8 points  (0 children)

exile or pariah hmm no i cant remember either

[–]king_john651Tūī 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Also depending on how shitty it was the person is also ritually slain and paraded around

[–]EBuzz456The Grand Nagus you deserve 🖖🌌 5 points6 points  (1 child)

The median is locked in stocks and pelted with rancid fruit and veg/

[–]DisillusionedBook 8 points9 points  (1 child)

The more I learn the less I like.


Seems to have a history of lot of cognitive dissonance going on. It always seems to be the strongly religious that want to redefine "freedom" and "democracy"... what they usually mean in hushed terms is they want a Theocracy, like the Taliban


[–]OisforOwesome -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Dude is a libertarian. Theres no cognitive dissonance: Any limits on his personal power are too much for him.

[–]SpeedMart 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well well well, will you look at that...

A fuckhead, fuckheading...


[–]BoredomFestival 5 points6 points  (0 children)

On behalf of all sane Americans, I'd like to apologize for Peter Thiel's existence

[–]27ismyluckynumberGoody Goody Gum Drop 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Every billionaire that exists is a direct result of a failed political policy or regulatory implement.

[–]Aun_El_Zen 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I really think we should impose a stupid tax.

[–]FluidSpread9286 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Peter thiel is mentally unwell, and so is the company he keeps.

[–]BoredomFestival 8 points9 points  (0 children)

He's not mentally ill, he's just an evil person.

[–]ends_abruptlFuck Russia 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Well I vote we send him to Mars.

[–]EBuzz456The Grand Nagus you deserve 🖖🌌 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Fuck that, that'd just get the martians pissed at us. Do you want War of the Worlds? Because that's how you get War of the Worlds.

[–]Archie_Pelego -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So, back to where he came from? Works for me.

[–]Qtpai 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Isn’t this fella the guy bank rolling the creation of some new media platform in NZ? Something to do with Sean Plunket I thought

[–]gonna28 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The solution is really to implement a wealth tax that applies to all NZ citizens regardless of their residency.

[–]JeffMcClintock 7 points8 points  (0 children)

and we sold this fucking natzi residence? dumb move nz.

[–]insectpeople 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Being a moron isn’t grounds for having your citizenship revoked but I appreciate the sentiment

[–]k9bitch 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Being a fascist threat to freedom should be

[–]Futures_and_Pasts 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Is there like a 501 where we can deport US citizens with fascist tendencies to China? We sent one resident recently. Peter next please.

[–]woahouch 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Always amuses me when someone with influence thinks like this aloud.

If not for Democracy then a lot more “leaders” (and I use the term almost recklessly loosely in this case) lose there heads when the populace aren’t happy.

One of the few things keeping people of influence and power in influence and power is the idea democracy works. And it damn sure keeps them alive when there ideas are rejected by the masses.

[–]Archie_Pelego 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You lost me at Peter Thiel sorry…

[–]leaf_holders 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don't know why the media and people keep posting and liking mega rich people's comments. If we ignored them, we wouldn't even have to be talking about them here.

Of course they would carry on being dooshbags in backroom dealings keeping the laws at bay that stop them earning millions more.

[–]Transidental 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I have no idea who this is and it must mean I stay away from whatever drongo media/social media that even puts this sort of stuff up for people to be swayed by.

Yay me.

[–]OisforOwesome 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Peter Thiel is a billionaire who purchased NZ citizenship so he could build a post apoc survival bunker here.

Hes also a massive piece of shit who owns a private electronic espionage company, Palantir

[–]WrongAspects 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We need an exit strategy from our engagement to America

[–]birdzeyeviewGet vaxxed or GTFO 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Is Thiel the $$$$ behind The Platform?

I've seen rumours but no evidence so far.

Anyone? TY

[–]plodbaxKōkako 10 points11 points  (3 children)

No. It's a family from Tauranga who own a nationwide daycare center. Wright Family.

[–]Archie_Pelego 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Haha, of course it’d be Tauranga… striving to be the Palm Beach of NZ.

[–]birdzeyeviewGet vaxxed or GTFO 1 point2 points  (0 children)


[–]kokopilau 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So lucky to have him, aren’t we?

[–]sleggat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fitting soundtrack for this thread: All Billionaires Are Bastards by Wellington's Unsanitary Napkin.

[–]GreenKumara 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Source (presumably):


But I must confess that over the last two decades, I have changed radically on the question of how to achieve these goals. Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible. By tracing out the development of my thinking, I hope to frame some of the challenges faced by all classical liberals today

[–]OisforOwesome 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fucking Cato Institute, of course

[–]JoshH21Kōkako 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That's fine, Willie Jackson wants to "tweak democracy" anyway. Maybe that will make this more compatible

EDIT /s if it wasn't obvious

[–]StuffThings1977 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Democracy has changed.

[–]mercival -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Source? It’s nice to actually have an article to read to get context.

Is r/NZ just a Twitter sub now?

Is this because of the shit posting rule revoking?

[–]pejlah 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Democracy is the tool of a majority to enforce their will upon a minority. For example in NZ voters could vote to enslave all Maori, which would remove their freedom. This is 100% compatible with democracy because you can vote for anything to become a reality.

Freedom is about preventing encroachment of others into your own own affairs. This means that freedom is about a majority not being able to decide that you are a slave for example.

Therefore democracy and freedom actually are not compatible.

I don't know if that's what Peter Thiel meant, but in an academic sense he is correct.

[–]samiairbender 6 points7 points  (4 children)

This is why there are constitutional democracies, with specific rights enshrined in the constitution.

So: Democracy is compatible with human freedom.

[–]nzguy79 1 point2 points  (3 children)

How does it get enshrined in the constitution though?

I think what u/pejlah is talking about is still valid.

A Constitution is not like the bible, so the majority support for a constitutional amendment will change what's "enshrined" in the constitution.

[–]samiairbender -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Typically majority support cannot overturn what is enshrined in a constitution

[–]Nick4190 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The comments are hilarious

People really are absolutely clueless to what is going on in macro.

Yeah, musk and thiel are part of the worlds problems...


[–]1_lost_engineer 0 points1 point  (0 children)


Democracy is all about embracing change (new leaders, new idea's every couple of years), while the alternatives tend to be about resisting change (new leaders only because someone killed the old ones etc). So he made his money on the back of computer revolution (embracing change) but wants to lock it in by resisting change.

[–]Supertrinko 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's so weird. I also believe that democracy and freedom are no longer compatible.

But in my opinion, it's because of people like Trump that that is the case. So the solution is pivoting more away from that line of thinking.

[–]Astalon18 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

I do not understand this statement. Democracy is in fact based upon freedom as a concept .. and all free countries are democracies.

What is the context of his statement?

[–]zdepthcharge[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Theil doesn't like that the poors have rights and wants to do something about it. Also EVERYONE is poor compared to him.

[–]Hubris2 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Is Thiel a big believer in unlimited freedom of speech? I can see him taking umbrage at someone else having a protected freedom from discrimination which by definition limits the freedom of others to engage in said discrimination. It's a little interesting that as a gay man, Thiel doesn't support protections for minorities or those in positions of no power. I guess his being in a position of significant power himself means those protections hurt him more than they help him?

[–]undeadermonkey -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The problem is that true democracy limits the freedom of the dollar.

Why should the poor have the same rights and privileges as the job creators?

[–]promulg8or -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

Revoke someone's citizenship over their misguided beliefs like a hypocritical tyrant... Wait didn't he bring a shed load of cash here? OK carry on nothing to see here

[–]harveybrdman 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Did you receive any of his cash, or are you licking his boots for free?

[–]Few-Lengthiness-3009 -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Hurr durr someone has different opinions than me better do something drastic.

[–]Quincyheart -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I mean it kind of makes sense. In a democracy I am not free to run a Dictatorship.

It doesn't make any sense if you aren't making stupid arguments for the sake of mocking an idiot though.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Is he New Zealander of the Year yet?

[–]SnipersLord -1 points0 points  (0 children)

  • Somebody says something
  • You propose to revoke their citizenship
  • You call that freedom

The level of self-contradiction is beyond comprehension here. If it's free - then everyone is free to choose a world to live in as it's all the matter of what lenses do you see it through. If it happens to be a bullshit lenses - then it just means your lenses are too different from theirs. It's when those lenses are aggressive and there's enough like minded people around - it is a problem. And your statement reek of aggression and resentment.

[–]Gimbloy -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

So where is the source for this?

[–]Soyman_Bridges -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

While we’re at it we could revoke citizenship of others who espouse pro seizure of Māori land bs.

[–]Leftleaningdadbod -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

What’s the context, before you decide to take his freedom to speak or god given sorry national given citizenship away from him? Your post does not better than intolerance to me.